Podcast Summary: To The Point – Cybersecurity
Episode: Navigating AI Policy: Challenges in Privacy, Governance, and Regulation with Shane Tews, Part 2
Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Rachael Lyon
Co-host: Jonathan Knepher
Guest: Shane Tews, Non-resident Senior Fellow, American Enterprise Institute
Episode Overview
This engaging episode picks up the discussion on the complex intersection of AI, privacy, data governance, and regulation. Seasoned policy expert Shane Tews returns for part two, sharing incisive perspectives on national and international trends in tech, the challenges of digital sovereignty, the evolving landscape of AI use and policy, and how societies globally are wrestling with data protection, governance, and ethical innovation. The conversation is practical, candid, and filled with real-world examples—helpful for business leaders, policymakers, and curious cyber-citizens alike.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Digital Sovereignty and the Rise of Walled Gardens
- State-Controlled Digital Models:
- Rachael introduces the global drift towards walled online "gardens"—where nations aim to strictly manage their digital realms (01:09).
- Shane draws from international experiences, illustrating the impracticality and misunderstandings governments exhibit around "localizing data" and building their own sovereign clouds (e.g., Sri Lanka's cloud ambitions) (01:57).
“They think...you’re going to create your own cloud?...Where is all the energy going to come from to run this large server farm...at the end of the day, it was going to come from Australia and I was just losing the thread...”
— Shane Tews [02:45]
2. TikTok, National Security, and Global Content Restrictions
- Practical Impacts of US Debates Over TikTok (03:59):
- Rachel laments potential U.S.-only content; she values TikTok's global cross-section of ideas.
- Shane shares personal reasons for avoiding TikTok due to national security warnings from Capitol Hill contacts, skepticism about the efficacy of forcing U.S. data localization, and calls out the opaqueness and commercial reality behind these moves (03:06–04:59).
- She notes, somewhat ironically, that U.S. TikTok users may only be exposed to outdated algorithms, with profits still going to China.
“We’re just getting last year’s algorithm. Good luck. We’re going to keep the good stuff... and 15, 20% of the profit ... goes back to China.”
— Shane Tews [04:36]
3. Content Moderation, Section 230, and Freedom of Expression
- Platform Control & Terms of Service:
- Shane explores who decides what content is seen, emphasizing the marketplace nature of social platforms and company rights to set boundaries (06:11).
- Cites recent Senate hearings on harmful content, and platform strategies (Google, Apple) on content moderation.
- Advocates both for platform responsibility and individual user choice—especially for minors (06:11–09:32).
“If you’re worried about it, it’s a really easy fix, faster than anything. Don’t give your kid a phone. Don’t put Instagram on it.”
— Shane Tews [06:30] - Raises debate on content policies, especially distinguishing societal versus application-level harm.
4. Decentralization vs. Platform Centralization
- Jon asks about internet centralization and loss of open web freedoms (09:52).
- Shane highlights next-gen experiments like Bluesky’s decentralized model—allowing users to port profiles and networks between platforms, aiming for user-controlled experiences (10:22).
“I like the theory of where they’re heading...But I hope that doesn’t mean that we just harden the bubbles...”
— Shane Tews [12:15] - Warns about risks of echo chambers despite better portability.
5. Demographics and Social Media Engagement
- Lighthearted segment: older generations, with more time post-retirement, are now major social media users—a reversal of past expectations (14:34).
“People that really have a lot of time now to be messing around on these social media apps are the older generation... They’re big consumers, more than you would expect.”
— Shane Tews [14:34]
6. International Cybersecurity Agreements
- Discussion on the recent UN cyber treaty (15:00).
- Shane is skeptical of any compact jointly signed by Russia and China, framing such actions as efforts to isolate their populations from the truly global internet (15:23–16:31).
“Anything that Russia and China sign together...we didn’t probably win. This has been a tough one for a really long time...”
— Shane Tews [15:32]
7. AI Policy: Transparency, Governance, and Workforce Impacts
- Shane's first-hand view of policy conversations with leading AI firms (Anthropic, OpenAI) centers on how workforce and education need to evolve, with real-time input, not lagging statistics (17:45).
- Biggest AI users are those most afraid of being replaced—creatives, marketers, writers—using AI as a creative or drafting tool (19:08).
- She champions platforms providing data sourcing and transparency features to build trust (e.g., Perplexity, Gemini).
“I use AI all the time. A lot of times I use it now as a first draft. I became much more trustful of it when they started to source...”
— Shane Tews [19:41] - Warns about the dangers of opacity, third-party data sharing, and how most people unwittingly consent to pervasive sharing for disarmingly simple perks (20:40–22:52).
8. User Education, Digital Literacy, and Lawmaker Challenges
- The core challenge is not just policymaker education but also public digital literacy—most people won’t read terms or learn risk basics, so regulations and consumer prompts need to be very obvious and simple (24:41).
“Most people don’t ever do the reading. And I understand that....You hand them a device...they have to make a couple decisions and they're mad about that...You could just not use it.”
— Shane Tews [25:16] - Emphasizes the need for communication that enables trust without overwhelming users or policymakers.
9. Global AI Policy Frameworks and Interoperability
- Jon probes the challenges of fragmented global policy—how to maintain standards without sacrificing openness (27:00).
- Shane reviews efforts and setbacks (UK AI Safety Summit, political U-turns), the limitations of hard rules for a nascent technology, and the analogy of polite vs. brute-force behaviors in AI scraping (robot.txt disregard) (27:23–31:34).
“We’re going to hit these places where France is going to be like, do not turn on red lights. And then you go to Lichtenstein and they’re like, I’m gonna have your rules here.... I would prefer that we start...guidance through kind of rules of the road structure...”
— Shane Tews [29:11] - Advocates for guidance and voluntary compliance over rigid standards to nurture global interoperability.
Memorable Quotes & Highlights
-
On Digital Sovereignty:
“The lack of understanding of how the actual technology works is a challenge when creating these regulations...they think they can create their own cloud, but energy, resources, and scale are often overlooked.”
— Shane Tews [02:22] -
On Personal Data Use:
“...Now every partnership they have has my information and is banging on me and then they’re selling it. And I don’t know where to make that stop. I think that’s really important for the trust that people are going to need.”
— Shane Tews [21:30] -
On User Awareness:
“Most people don’t want to be educated consumers is our first challenge.”
— Shane Tews [25:16] -
On Policy Fragmentation:
“We’re getting to a point where we need to figure that out. I would prefer that we start with, as the internet does, guidance through kind of rules of the road structure that is not necessarily standards hardened...”
— Shane Tews [29:11] -
On AI Data Scraping:
“Now the agents are just brute-forcing right through [robots.txt]. ...They’ve ingested probably 99% of that stuff anyway.”
— Shane Tews [31:02]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:09 - Walled gardens and the trend toward digital sovereignty
- 03:04–04:59 - National security and the TikTok debate
- 06:11 - Content moderation, Section 230, and platform responsibilities
- 09:52 - Internet centralization: is there a way back?
- 10:22 - Bluesky and decentralized social networking
- 14:34 - Demographics: older generations as major social media users
- 15:00–16:31 - UN cyber treaty and international perspectives
- 17:45–22:52 - AI policy trends, transparency, and user trust
- 24:41–26:57 - Education gaps in digital literacy
- 27:00–31:34 - Global AI standards, guiding frameworks, and policy fragmentation
Tone and Flow
The episode maintains an energetic, practical, and conversational tone. Shane Tews mixes sharp analysis with candid humor, relatable analogies, and firsthand policy experience. Rachael and Jon interject with curiosity, real-world anecdotes, and personal reflections, keeping the exchange grounded and accessible.
For Listeners New and Old
This episode delivers a nuanced look into how government, business, and individuals are all struggling—and occasionally excelling—in the face of rapid change in AI, data, and digital regulation. The hosts and guest leave the listener with both practical insights and a sense of the sheer complexity (and opportunity) confronting the cybersecurity and technology policy landscape in 2025.