Aaron (2:38)

Hey, hey, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Chris (2:40)

Let's.

Travis (2:41)

We got to talk about this hunting trip.

Chris (2:42)

No.

Tommy (2:44)

So you guys just realized it was pretty brutal. So that's why I didn't even share the. Share the pictures you posted, Chris, because I know there's some an. Look, I love it, by the way. Let me just say one thing. When the guys were telling us how this hunting lodge, it's called Ox Hunting Lodge, Ox Ranch, and he's like, we actually artificially inseminate, like, we breed more animals here. Like, this actually makes the animals live longer. Like, the stuff that we do at this.

Chris (3:17)

That was a really terrible job.

Tommy (3:18)

But either way, it was pretty gruesome.

Chris (3:20)

But I'll tell you, he's right. These animals get taken better care of than they are in the wild. They live longer. They've got everything they need, and they're, you know, they're bred for this stuff too. And so, you know, when you go hunt, you also, like, you get the meat from it. So, like, you know, it's. I shot a buffalo. Like, I have meat for like a year and a half, and I like bison. It's really lean meat.

Chad (3:39)

I like how you guys are trying to be politically correct. I love that. I love that. Tommy. I love the fine print that we're gonna put down on the comment section for. For Tommy to be politically correct on everything.

Chris (3:51)

It's.

Travis (3:52)

No, animals were hard during our hunt. So let's. Let's just make sure we understand, because you guys hunting is like a trust fund person calling themselves rich. You guys get. Get in the jeeps. You get in a jeep and you drive up to the buffalo, and Tommy never gets out of the Jeep. He's sitting in the jeep with the rifle, shoots it.

Chris (4:12)

Yes.

Travis (4:12)

And then they take it back. They do process all the guys.

Chris (4:16)

Okay. Like, it's.

Travis (4:18)

Call that hunting. Okay.

Chris (4:20)

You did. Thank you. Hey.

Gaynor (4:21)

They had to. I guess at the end of day, you had to pull the trigger to kill the thing. Right? So I had to do that.

Travis (4:26)

I could have.

Chad (4:26)

Tommy was on a call with Cortex the whole time. He was on a call with Cortex shooting buffaloes every time Tommy wants to get out of something. He's like, oh no, I got a Cortech. I gotta be with Cortech. I gotta be with Cortez.

Chris (4:40)

Okay, well, anyway, gentlemen, it was. It was a good time. And my friend Charlie, who some of you guys know, put that whole thing together for us and somehow got Tommy and his cousins to participate. So it was a good trip. I want to move on. So today, what we're going to talk about in this episode, we're going to cover a few topics as best as I can because I know this group. So probably only get about maybe a quarter of it accomplished.

Ishmael (4:59)

But a few things is number one.

Chris (5:01)

Just I'm going to hit real fast on the, you know, future and current market. This is going to be based off a conversation Tommy and I had. I just want to give some optimism, you know, to our listeners about, about what's to come because I think there is some really good optimism there. We're going to talk a little personal development suggestions on what some of us guys as a group do, you know, to. It is important topic. It's not some cliche. We got to do it prepping to sell. And we've had. You've heard these conversations a lot. So that was thrown out as a topic that we should cover. Talking about some AI tools, I think budget and cash flow plan, if we can get to it, or the lack thereof. Budget and cash flow plans that people have pricing tactics. I know Ringy, this will be one that you're interested in, but this is something that I've been asked at least a lot more lately. And then I did some research on Rhino customers, on how many of these guys have lost deals because they just wouldn't give a fucking ballpark. And then how to increase profit without adding headcount was something that's been asked of us to as a topic to cover. So if we can get to it, we'll throw it out there. But first things first, guys, I would just want to hit this. It's going to be super fast because we talked about in our text yesterday how cool on this First Amendment chat about prosecuting those burning the American flag. I loved that. Hell yeah. Like, how disrespectful. So that was a great one. So I don't remember who posted that, but who, who didn't post that anyway? Who was that?

Chad (6:22)

Is that UAG Automatic one year, no questions asked. They got a picture of the one year put him in jail.

Gaynor (6:29)

I'm all for it. I love it.

Travis (6:31)

I think it'll really help, you know, calm some of the riots too. It seems like that's their, you know, thing that they. They rally around is burning flags. If they can't do that, I guess.

Chad (6:39)

Tommy's talking shit about California, by the way. Tom.

Chris (6:44)

Hey, and how about this? This is the one thing I read on the flight back too. And we'll blow through this one quickly, but I want your guys's opinion. Thumbs up or thumbs down? I think I know all of you, and I know which direction your thumb's gonna go on this dumbass Cracker Barrel bullshit with the branding of removing the old history of like, the like and making it, considering it's an old white person's rest, you know, restaurant now they've removed the old guy from it. It's just Cracker Barrel. And they've added booze and all this other. Which I don't think adding booze is that big of a deal. It's supposed to be a family restaurant, but, like, changing the logo and for the reason was stupid. So what's your guys's thumbs up or thumbs down on that decision by the CEO? Because mine is a big fat thumbs down.

Travis (7:23)

Hey, you know what, though? Like, maybe the publicity they've gotten from it is outrageous. So I would say as a publicity stunt, thumbs up, man.

Gaynor (7:34)

Good marketing move.

Chris (7:35)

Did. Did you see their loss?

Ishmael (7:37)

Did you see their market loss?

Chris (7:39)

It's like 250 million or some huge.

Travis (7:43)

Emotional trading, people just capitalizing on the emotion. But it'll pop back. But yeah, I. I mean, politically, you know, never seems to really go that. That great for a lot of these companies. So I don't think the best move.

Chris (7:56)

It'S like, you know, training fluid, moving on. So the. Since we're talking about the market, let's just address it really quick. I feel like I've had this conversation a ton and at that roofing conference we were at, I was asked about this a lot. But let's just talk about what your guys's view on the, like, the market the rest of this year looks like. But then let's also just give a brief look at next year. And Tommy, like, I think I can't remember when you and I had this conversation, but you were talking about all the positive things that you think that are happening that are going to make 2026 a great year, like, economically, like all kinds of stuff. But what is your guys's take on, like, finishing out the rest this year, the way the market is versus, like, what are we looking at next year, do you think? Do you? I. I just feel like okay, this has been the hard one. But next year is going to be a really good market. I think that there's a lot of things going well with interest rates and all kinds of like that. What's your guys's take, man, on what's the rest of this year gonna look like? And then give me your thoughts just on, on next year. And are you as optimistic as myself?

Tommy (8:54)

Well, Chris, I was just gonna say. So some of the pros. Number one, is a great big beautiful bill actually does a lot for businesses, accelerate depreciation. There's just so many tax incentives for businesses. So if you got a great CPA or a great tax lawyer, there's just more opportunities that have grown. Number two, there's not been a lot of deal flow, and that's because of interest rates. The deal flow is going to start going again. I mean, everybody I've talked to said in the next 18 months, we're going to do a deal like everybody. So the deal flow is going to help. Number three, tariffs have been a pain in the butt for a lot of people, but they're going to stabilize. The CEO of Blackstone met with Trump in the Oval Office and said, look, Q3, Q4 is going to be a roller coaster. Q1 is going to be. It's all going to be stabilized. So we're going to see great things. The next thing is Powell in charge of the Fed. Interest rates are going to come down, most likely in the next month, and they're going to probably three to five times come, which makes deals easier to get through, which increase multiples. And not to mention 10,000 baby boomers a day, 12% of them own a business. This is the golden era. This is the biggest transaction, like the biggest shift of money that we'll ever see because it was the largest group. Baby boomers are the largest group of population in the United States. So you add all that up, you know, on the bad side, it was a very, very cool, I'll say, cooler summer, one of the coolest summers in 30 years. So H. Vac has nothing but to look forward to. Next year is going to be a lot better. I could guarantee you that. And it's just like the stars are aligning. So that's, that's my two cents, Tommy.

Chad (10:31)

I think in my, you know, I'll keep this short and brief. I think everybody's waiting for Tommy or for one of these amazing freaking portfolios to start the snowball effect, per se. I feel like if Tommy sets off the fire, then, you know, those Champions and the wrenches and all these guys are going to start doing it, but I feel like it's just a matter of time before somebody just pulls the trigger and it just, you know, all the deals start flowing through and you know, obviously it's a, it's a really, really, really good place that we're in the industry. AI is going to make us, you know, 20, 30, 40% more profitable in the trades, making our, our, our industry even sexier than what it is to all these PEs and VCs and anybody else that wants to get in it. So two things. Number one, Tommy is. Everybody's waiting on Tommy. And then number two is there is no better fucking place to be in, in the trades. And right now. So I'm excited for, you know, people that have never even looked at being a plumber, an air conditioning tech or a garage door tech or, or a roofer. Now they're going to start looking at us and be like, man, you know what those guys are, Those guys are making money. There's, there's something good over there happening.

Chris (11:38)

Tommy or Tom, what are your, what are your service titan peeps saying? Or what are you hearing in that group?

Aaron (11:43)

Well, they're going to talk a little bit about a pantheon. But what I can tell you is this. If you look at the HRI numbers that cut out and that's all public information, HRI is saying, hey, look, shipments are down for air conditioners for this year. And they mostly believe that it's from cooler weather and that kind of thing. The, the summer, you know, got really hot in the Midwest for like a week and then went away. And then the whole west coast, we didn't really have a summer. And in California, we're actually California, Nevada and Arizona actually, we finally got some hot weather in August, which usually when you have hot weather in August, it doesn't mean much. But since the summer never came, we finally got some numbers coming in. So just from the weather alone, I don't think we're going to have in the west, we had the coolest summer on record in 25 years. And I don't think that's going to happen two years in a row. So I'm really excited for next summer and making some money. I, I'm optimistic about that. Then you add on everything else, the macroeconomic indicators that Tommy and is talking about about, you know, interest rates potentially coming down. Well, we already got announcements that said they are going to come down and deal flow starting to happen. I mean, I'm seeing a lot of positive insights for, for next year.

Chris (13:01)

You think we got, you think we have a decent for this deal flow stuff? We got like we're talking like a couple years of the window. Are we talking a year, three year, like what are we talking about you guys think?

Aaron (13:12)

I just, I, I think it's going to be like a year to two years of, I mean it's gonna open up for a little while when the things start happening. A lot of deals are going to happen and I think there's gonna be a lot a backlog of deals right now. We can see it and we can see, I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look and say okay, wow, there's a bunch of deals happening for so long and now there haven't been any massive ones in the past year and a half, two years as interest rates went up and things like that. Tommy's pretty confident he's going to get, he wants to get 20x on his, his deal over there or more. So I think those, those multiples are going to come back. I think that they are gonna hit again as interest rates come down and, and deal flow starts happening.

Travis (13:54)

Yeah, I think, I think too a lot of these bigger portfolios because of the cooler summer and I'll, the first day I've seen a change in consumer sentiment too. I don't think it's just the cool summer, but I think a lot of these guys are, you know, stagnant in growth, maybe even pulling backwards in some parts of their portfolio and that makes it hard to take it to the market. So I think a lot of them are hoping for a big 20, 26. I, I also, you know, interest rates don't just help deal flows. A lot of the are, are, you know, the, the end user, the customer are, you know, rate locked into these homes. They can't pull out helocs, they're not selling their house. And our industry thrives on real estate transactions. Those turnovers. People buy houses, they replace systems, they replace plumbing, they replace roofs. So we need that, that those transactions to start happening again. The one thing I'd counter point, you know, Tommy on is I, I don't love parts of the big beautiful build for home services. It's, it's good for business. But you know, these guys, you know, Ishmael's got some buddies in the solar industry, 280 canvassers that are going to be out of a job. You know, they got to transition to a different industry. We started selling solar roofs at Legacy. We rolled out the whole plan and it just got ripped out from under us right as we started to catch steam. So I think no same thing. Home performance for insulation, for windows, duct ceiling, all those rebates are leaving which were, you know, good rebates for consumers. So I, I think there's a lot of benefits but I think there's also some, some stuff that's going to negatively affect.

Chris (15:26)

Hey, real quick.

Tommy (15:28)

Well just one comment is, is I, I want to, I don't want to confuse the few. The two home service and home improvement are two different things. I think the home improvement space is getting really whacked. Home service is a demand call. I need you out today to come fix this and potentially sell new stuff. So I, I do agree with you. Solar, some of roofing, there's other things that got whacked windows but those are home improvement.

Chris (15:51)

That's a great, that's a good, good differentiator. And, and I think that you mentioned something that Chad and I were talking about and I'm curious to get your guys opinion or if any of you have tried it. I'm sure you've probably tried variation of this but we're talking about how and I don't know isher if you heard this or Hoffa. I haven't talked often about it but one thing I listened to at that roofing conference as I was going into the breakouts, trying to understand the retail game and these guys, all these big ass companies, all of them, whether they're retail or insurance or both, like all of the above, they're using door knocking in their like in that strategy and it is huge revenue for it. So, so hang on. So here's my question. Chad and I are talking about like he, Chad's really like thinking hey man, I know we could implement this in H Vac and I know and like and have any of you guys, I think there's a massive opportunity for like these third party companies that are doing this shit. Like that's the job coming in and doing this stuff like grassroots shit for our home services.

Ishmael (16:49)

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Chad (18:48)

Bro. All I was listening to and my, my main thing why I went to that roofing conference and why I took the time to fly out there to Texas is I wanted to know what the fuck they're doing to lead generate. Because you know, me and Hoffman spend quite a bit of time like talking to these roofers. And they all had one thing in common. They all had a huge canvassing team doing door knocking, going out there and creating the demand. And I'll never forget what Hoffman told me. We were going up the elevator, we were going up the elevator and I'm telling them, hey Hoffman, you know, you know, what'd you take away on this roofing stuff? And he's like, hey man, you know, obviously we're, we're H Vac minded individuals. We think that the H Vac marketing is going to work on the roofing and it's obviously not. So I think I'm going to start building a canvassing team right away. I text Travis and I'm like, Travis, we got to get with my buddies that have those 280 solar canvases and we got to freaking build our own in house team. So we're already, I think we have a meeting today at 1pm we're already about to start building a in house canvassing team. So that's how fast people gotta execute when, when, when we learn something.

Chris (19:49)

So Chad, did you, Chad, did you, did you ever end up doing Anything with the chat or did you try anything? Did you test anything in any markets?

Hoffman (19:56)

No, I haven't yet. I'd like to. It's on the list of things to do. I talked to Tom, who's like, who's that young guy out in California that does it?

Aaron (20:06)

Sean. Yeah, Sean, go ahead.

Hoffman (20:10)

Sorry, Go ahead. Yeah, I haven't tried it, so that's all deep.

Aaron (20:14)

Yeah, so do it. We do it. We'll do around over 30 million in revenue in canvassing this year, and it's almost all water treatment, water heaters, that kind of stuff. We took a hit on EBITDA this year because we had to change up our systems because we're doing tanklesses and the cities are starting to require us to do, like, engineer drawings that were taking three months to get approvals. And so we had to pivot. We'll still hit our 30 million, but we had to cut out that revenue and replace it with some other stuff. Anyway. The point of this is that, guys, if you're listening to this podcast and think, okay, I'm going to go out and I'm going to hire some people to go knock doors, that's not how this works at all.

Travis (20:53)

We tried that.

Aaron (20:54)

Yeah. I've done it semi successfully in pest control. I've done it successfully. I've been with the teams that did it successfully on this water treatment thing with the company that we bought called ceg. I can tell you it is a whole different animal. Those guys have a very specialized skill set that they are very good at. And when you walk in there, literally, in order to get them excited every day, because canvassing sucks, like, it is the first jobs in the world. In order to get them excited every day, it literally, their team meeting looks like Wolf of Wall street guys jumping up and screaming, yelling, cheering everything else, trying to get them excited to go out and knock doors every day. Then in addition to that, you got to realize the people that you're hiring, in many cases, are not like hugely skilled laborers. We have a whole. They have a whole program that is a sales bible that they have to memorize before they can do it. They have to memorize their pitch. And I was there training with them, and I had to act like the customer and listen their pitch over and over and over and over and over again. And they dialed it in word by word by word. And if you did not say every word exactly right, you could not go out onto the next step. And, like, they dial this in, then when they get out there, you got to realize because these guys, you could be hiring them from anywhere and trying to train them on canvassing. They may or may not be doing things that you want them to do in the field. So we had to fire two. We. Our top salesperson, we had a fire because he was doing things that we consider to be unethical. And now we have issues with customers, all kinds of repercussions from that. He was turning off Rilla when they were recording him so that he could do things that we shouldn't be doing. The amount of work and effort that has to go into trying to do everything right and make sure this is successful is very hard. I'm very glad that I have. Sean and Jamal are the two guys that do it out there and that run it. And for them working as hard as they do. But it's just, if you're going to do it, you got to be all in and you got to go heavy and, like, making sure, hey, we're going to do this right. Not like, oh, yeah, maybe we should change our sales program and we should have something. Oh, Johnny, he didn't have anything going on today. Let's send him out. Doors, like, good luck works out for you.

Chris (23:04)

Is it fair to say that some of those door knockers had a breach of integrity?

Aaron (23:11)

Yeah. I mean, and that's the reality of it. When Sean and Jamal and Damon, the CEO and I talked, and Damon's a big thing. He's like, dude, we had just bought this company, and we got in and then had these issues a few months later, we were just saying, look, like, I don't care how much. And they agreed. I don't care how much they sell. If there's a breach of integrity, you have to fire them. And we did. And the cool thing is it sent a shock wave in the entire organization. Said, look, you do stuff wrong, you're fired. We don't care. And it sent a message to the whole rest of the team that, hey, here's the standards we're going to hold, and if you don't like it, you're out.

Tommy (23:48)

Well, the. The problem is with door knocking, a couple of things. Number one, that. That one guy that leaves will take half the team with them. So you can't depend on.

Aaron (23:57)

Yeah, five people. Five are top performers.

Tommy (24:00)

So this. So that number. Number one, number two, you're bothering people in the middle of dinner. You're bothering their kids. So that creates a lot of one star reviews. I got 100 door knockers right now, and we don't sell any doors on the door knocks, I get a sticker in the house. So we try to book a tune up and, and we've had a hard time mathing the equation to be profitable, but over two years it's profitable. So it's like this long term greed type thing for me is this like, yeah, it doesn't pay out for the first six months. It's an investment into the future. But I would say you are going to get a lot of one star reviews. You are going to get a lot of people that are just, they know they get paid for, for me, for a sticker. So they're like, all I need to do is come in your house real quick and put a sticker. And they could be a little bit confrontational. And so the reason I mentioned this is I would not. If you don't have Google even turned on or you're open 247 on your Google my business page, if you're not like looking at your numbers and have attribution, this isn't like the first thing I'd be looking at because it's literally like sometimes it takes three years to put a program like this together and it's a lot of failure and when it works, it works great. But I, I could count on one hand the guys because pest control is different. In pest control you'll, you'll lose in a summer, the whole year of, the whole year of revenue, you actually will go underwater. I know the guys at Moxie really well. I love the idea of the program and I know Hoffman believes that once you figure it out for hrack, I, I don't know if I agree or disagree. I, I just, I'd love to see somebody pull.

Chad (25:28)

Tommy. What I, what I've seen other people do to, to counter those one star reviews and to make sure that they don't get their image tarnished online is that they present themselves as a different company and then they, they send the lead to the. So that, that's what I've seen and I've seen it done very well here in California where, where the actual installation, which is like let's say, you know, next gen was doing the installs, they would, they would never get the one star. It's always the, the approacher or the canvassers. So they would present themselves as an, an exotic.

Tommy (25:58)

I did that in the beginning. Yeah, I did that in the beginning, but then I lost. They're like, why are you putting an A1 stick? Yeah, there's, there's a lot that you got to work through on that and it takes just like anything else. You're saying yes to door knocking, you're saying no to something else.

Hoffman (26:12)

Well, I think, Tom, if it just takes a wolf a Wall street meeting to get this, I think I'm the perfect guy to try this. I could lead one of those meeting likes going out of style.

Aaron (26:21)

Yeah, on that one, dude. Like, seriously, if you want to come out to Southern California, I, I went to one of the meetings and I was just, literally I had one guy that almost jumped on top of the table like, like he almost face planted trying to jump on the table because they were so.

Travis (26:38)

Yeah, Ishmael took me to one of his buddy's meetings and they were all literally like jumping up in the air. Like, it's like, holy, this is.

Chad (26:46)

And they put music and they put like, like if it was a nightclub in there. I'm like, what the is going on? It's 9:00am.

Chris (26:54)

Yeah, that's Chad's jam. He loves that.

Chad (26:57)

But look, some, some industries you got to do it, guys. So look, the takeaway here is, you know, it's not whether we want to push you to do it or not.

Chris (27:03)

Push you to do it.

Chad (27:04)

You got to try, you got to commit to it. You gotta, you know, like the roofing and solar industry, they've seen huge success on it. So does it work in a track and garage doors, plumbing, all that, we don't know yet. Nobody's, you know, obviously Thomas proven out a 30, 30 million dollar model already.

Aaron (27:19)

I've seen companies do it in H Vac and I've seen them do it in roofing. I've seen them do it in windows. So it's like possible. Yeah.

Travis (27:26)

I think one of the hardest parts about roofing is just the urgency equation. Like when your AC is broke, when you have a leak, you're fixing that right away. And roofing, especially where in Arizona where you know you'll go three, four months without rain, I mean, the urgency is just not there for a lot of people. So. So creating that urgency by putting it in their mind, by knocking on the door and telling them, hey, you have some tiles that are, you know, falling off, you've got some issues. I think it's a lot easier to, to build that lead and do a free inspection. But I think definitely, you know, with Tommy's point, if he's trying to put an A1 sticker, he's got to go in as A1 where, you know, I think, you know, a lot of these guys, as you said, Ishmael, like even your Buddies, correct me if I'm wrong, they're not even the guys that do the solar installation. They just sell the job and. And then they move the job over.

Chad (28:14)

They door knock, they sell it. And then there's an installation company that, that gets subbed out on there too.

Tommy (28:18)

If you guys look up Todd Peterson with Vivint, he built the whole company with 2000 door knockers and he sold it. As you don't pay anything, I give you the equipment for free. It was an alarm company and you just get on a five year contract. And so by the way, your insurance goes down when we install this alarm. So you're using anyway dollars is what the. What we've learned to call it. You're going to spend the money anyway. Why not have a whole home security system will make it cheaply a cheap monthly fee. So there are industries when you figure this out, it could build. I mean Vivint sold for 5 billion. So you know there, there are.

Chad (28:51)

And he built it.

Aaron (28:52)

You know what Tommy? Every, every 5 billion helps. So it adds up.

Gaynor (28:56)

Yeah, it does.

Chad (28:57)

That's what my mom told me back in Michigan.

Chris (29:02)

Hey, real quick, what's funny about all this is this is not even one of the topics I had on the thing. So we even got to have to heroes door knocking move. We went down a path. Hey, Chad. Defenders bought everyone. Defenders bought Williams Comfort Air and then they tried to run. And Defenders is ADT's largest. Like they're a 400 million privately held company who's since sold. But same thing, they're, they're headquartered in Indianapolis and they were a client of mine back in the day. And when they acquired Williams Comfort Air they tried to run Williams which is like I think 40 million or something like that. 30. 40 million somewhere around there, right Chad? Something like that. Maybe a little bit smaller. But point is that when they acquired it, they tried to run it like the security company and it fucking tanked. And then the original owner, Joe Huck bought it back for like pennies on the dollar scale. It again sold it again to Wrench. But they tried the door knocking strategy and they like security and it didn't work for them. But they also didn't know the home services industry so they had a lot, lot to learn. But it was painful to see the one star reviews come in as the marketing company trying to get them to convert into customers. So. Okay, I'm gonna shift gears guys, so we can leave that, we can put that to bed. Thank you for your participation in that. I don't Know how I feel? Thanks, Tommy. I felt really good, and then I felt really bad. After you start talking.

Chad (30:20)

Tom hit it right in the head. Right? Y' all know Tom hit it right in the head. You gotta make sure that you. You set the example, and you, you know, if they're gonna be doing shady, fire them on the spot in front of everybody. And that'll send the shockwave of like, hey, we're not gonna put up with this. And that's how you. That's how you run a. A real door knocking.

Chris (30:36)

Got it. Okay. Hey, so I'm gonna shift to a much easier topic. Something that's 100% in your control, and that is on personal development. And. And this is. I don't know which one of you guys sent this to me to talk about, but I was thinking about it because I listened to Tommy and Micro's podcast, and they were just talking about the things that Tommy, you know, does to. Just to learn, like, to be. He's curious and he just wants to learn about things, and that puts him in the right. These positions have great conversations, but he's, like, constantly building his, you know, his iq. And when. I never understood why you went to this energy conference in the first place until I had listened to that and you were explaining it. But personal development is a big deal. And I think that a lot of times that is what you got to do. Like Chad and I talked about, you got to look in the mirror because you're the problem right now. Like, or you're the one who needs to level yourself up. And you have to sometimes swallow your pride to be able to do that. Now, I have certain things that I like to do for my personal development right now. It's all the fitness stuff, which we all kind of. Well, not all of us, but most of us have got, except gain. Oh, dude, he's jacked. You see the arms on that dude?

Chad (31:37)

Don't bump him up. Don't bump them up. Okay, let's not try to give him. Okay any credit. He's still fat.

Chris (31:44)

Jesus.

Aaron (31:45)

What a dick.

Travis (31:46)

And to our list, you guys, you guys both need to measure in on. On body fat percentage, because I think you're lower than ish.

Gaynor (31:53)

We're gonna. We gotta arm wrestle, bro.

Chad (31:57)

There you go defending him. There you go defending him.

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Gaynor (32:40)

You'll get it.

Chris (32:42)

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Ishmael (32:49)

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Gaynor (33:45)

I think it's, I guess I'll go all the way back to kind of where I started with it real quick and go. I just think it's a life journey of development. I think each, each part of our lives has a new chapter of what we need to learn and develop as we grow from where we all were as tradespeople, many of us right in the trades, to learning the trade skill, right to understanding that, learning that skill to then moving that, to be able to manage them, to grow and then to market and then all these things as we go. So I think it's a, there's a lot of different ways you want to look at personal developments about growing your business and personally developing yourself. Whether that's, you know, finding faith in a religion that you're in that grows you and keeps you sound grounded, whether that's, you know, finding something that you're inspired in through sales or just development in general by going to networking. So I think there's many different ways you can look at this. I know I went through the journey early on a lot of Tony Robbins stuff for me. I went to business mastery programs. I went to bpw. I did the Walk on the Fires. I did all the events and went and socialized and did all. All that. All that type of stuff there. And then joined Next Stars and went to those things. And then, then just, you know, books and books and books. There's so many smart people that have wrote so many great things in the world that have spent their time and energy to write information. And you can get really close to the smartest people in the world by just reading the books they wrote. And I mean, that's personal development. It's on its own, but I think it's just having a target to aim towards. What do you want to personally develop on? And I think there's different chapters in it. So I could talk about it many different ways, I guess just kind of saying that everybody's in a different spot and where they are in personal development. Some people have maybe spent more time in their networking life and less in their physical life or less in their spiritual life and then more in this. You know what I mean? So I think there's just different chapters of it and where you are. I constantly. I'd say, even I text with Tommy the other day. I used to read so many books all the time. And I've slowed down on that in the last year or so. And I mean, I used to be last year and a half, probably or so, and I've been picking it up. I finished like three books in the last two and a half weeks now because I'm like, I got to get my shit back together here. I've kind of been off my game on that and just been executing. So I don't know if I'm really answering your question. I think. I'm just saying that I think they're just kind of ebbs and flows. And I think we're all, you know, in some level, in all different chapters of reinventing ourselves based upon where we are in a chapter of our life and where we're going.

Aaron (36:07)

I'll hop in here. No, on mine, because there's a lot of stuff we can do. And I think Aaron listed off a lot of things that I do when it comes to personal development. Either the reading or the owner classes or whatever else. But one of the things I did to organize all that was I started putting my goals on a sheet and at first it was 2010 when I did my first one, I was in college and I, I broke the sheet into four quadrants and I had like physical fitness education and then like financial and spiritual and religious in those four quadrants. And then I wrote goals in each one and then I taped it to my front door. And then I'd write down as I went throughout the year, I had 2010 in the middle and as I went throughout the year I'd mark off stuff that I did, write down things that happened and whatever. Since I've developed that a lot more now, it's like seven quadrants for different things. Spiritual and religious are two separate things for me now. The financial switched like last year actually the first year I didn't have a financial goal anymore because I just, I was like, I made enough money, I'm good. And then I have career, I have education, all that stuff. Like in under education I've got like books that I want to read that year or the amount of books I want to read. And I write them down each time. And the interesting thing is at the end of each year I would take it and New Year's day is like my favorite day of the year. For this New Year's Day I have the day off. I don't drink, so I'm not like hungover that day. And I take them and I put them into a binder, you know, and if, if you like drinking on New Year's, then freaking do it a different week, like a week later or something. But pick a day where you're like clear headed and you can spend, take a whole day off work. You're not going to take any phone calls and focus on like what did I complete last year? What was my close rate, so to speak? What's my success rate on my goals? What am I going to do next year? Plan it out. I don't put it on my door anymore. I put it on my, on my mirror in my bathroom. So not everyone sees it all. Especially when I had the financial goals up. I didn't want everyone seeing like the money I was making when I was in college. It didn't matter. I had like six bucks in my bank account, so who cares? Anyway, now I have, I take each one of those every year and I put them into a journal. So I have a gold journal from 2010 to 2025. Every year I can see like what I accomplished. And the cool thing is I try different years, like maybe make more goals like make less goals. If I make less goals, do I get more done? I make more goals? Do I, you know, not have a higher percentage or net? Is it more dialed it in a little bit. And I also can see, like, each year, the amount of stuff I do in a year now compared to What I did 15 years ago is unreal. And, you know, when I look at it, what's his name, the walk on fire guy, The Tony Robbins. We generally underestimate what we can do in one year, or we overestimate what we can do in one year, and we drastically underestimate we can do in five. I think part of that is because in five years, like you, you are so much more capable of more things in five years. I remember reading. I want to read four books a year back in 2010. This year I've read probably, I think I added up the other day is like 3500 or 4000 pages since January 1st with all these different books that I've read. And it's just. It compounds and you start getting excited and you start getting that dopamine hit when you can write another thing down that you accomplish or cross someone off. And so that way, everyone on here is gonna have different goals and different things that they want to do. But I mean, for me, that's how I organize it. And now I look at it like, before I take a class or two now, it's like I'm learning piano starting on Thursday.

Chad (39:37)

You want to be a penis piano.

Aaron (39:38)

For crying out loud. It's not nothing to do with my career weeks ago. You know, just little things that you just put in there. Like, I just want to do this.

Chad (39:47)

I believe you. I believe you, Tom. I believe you.

Aaron (39:50)

I wanna. I want your piano. I started taking a dance class like a year ago. I was like.

Ishmael (39:59)

What.

Chris (40:06)

Way? You heard this guy sing, he's a. He's basically like, you know, he's a song. He's the songbird of our generation.

Chad (40:15)

You are not only the weirdest person, but you are the coolest person in the group.

Aaron (40:19)

Play it. If I know it, I'm like, yeah.

Chad (40:20)

Like, okay, y. I'll give you guys one that. That most people don't consider as. As personal development. I think having the right people like us, right, we've all encourage each other to.

Chris (40:34)

To.

Chad (40:34)

To. To keep developing. Developing ourselves. I think having the right people is also critical into personal development. Look, we're all into a, you know, a fitness journey that we've all gotten into, except Aaron, but because of Travis and because of Travis and because we've all started to work out and, you know, we all started hitting the gym and taking care of each other.

Gaynor (40:54)

You're gonna make me take my shirt off in this video and. And he's gonna make me take this off. Showing what's up.

Aaron (41:06)

I think. I think the accountability, though, that is talking about is important because, honestly, I wouldn't be pushing myself to, like, the past couple weeks to start thinking, dude, I'm going to Pantheon. I'm gonna look like a schlub seeing all these guys there. I'm like, I better. I better get my together.

Chad (41:19)

That's how Aaron. That's how Aaron's been feeling the whole. The rest of his life. And look at Peterman.

Aaron (41:24)

Peterman.

Chad (41:25)

Peterman is just quiet in the background. He hasn't lifted a dumbbell in three years.

Travis (41:30)

You don't got to when you wear a vest, baby.

Gaynor (41:32)

So part of personal development is, you know, talking other people down in their life. So thanks.

Chad (41:39)

I'm not talking. If I'm not talking on you. I don't love you enough. Getting people motivated, that is my love language is talking. And if I'm talking on you, that means because I care deeply about you.

Aaron (41:54)

He's gonna talk on you, and then five minutes later, after the podcast over, is going to ask you for an investment in his.

Gaynor (42:03)

He's already done that.

Chad (42:04)

Best investment ever. Hog gainer.

Gaynor (42:08)

Yeah.

Chad (42:15)

Oh, God. So.

Tommy (42:17)

So just. You guys said everything, but Ben Hardy wrote a book. Who, not how, and putting yourselves in the right rooms. Obviously this is a super competitive group, but the one thing is we share a lot. There's really nothing off on the table. So this Dream 100 book is finding the a hundred people. There's seven degrees of separation. If you were just willing to go out of your comfort zone and ask and pay it forward and show up humbly. When I meet somebody that's above me in life, whether that's family, friends, faith, fitness, finance, future self, I just sit there and ask great questions. I don't need to prove myself to them because I'm there to learn from them. I called Eric Vining, who you guys know, my. The CFO at the family office stuff. And I said. I said, pull off a million dollars for. For coaching. And he goes, who are you going to get? I don't know yet. But in the next three months, I'm investing a million dollars into two or three coaches, which they're not cheap. The guys I want to work with. And by the way, I'll share everything with you. Guys, if I learn something, I mean, I'm the first one to tell you guys. And I know you guys are learning, putting yourselves in the right rooms too, then. It used to be only about fitness or finance because, you know, we, we all didn't come from much. So money opens the door to a lot of things. I mean, the driver, the chef, the different things. And I'll give Ishmael a lot of credit for that. But then I realized, man, I got to feel good. I, I don't show up for anybody the right way if I don't love myself. So I started to learn to love myself a little bit more and take care of myself. And I learned that I had a leaky gut, my testosterone was way off, about 10 other things, my sleep wasn't right. So first I got myself right so I could show it for others in the way I want to show up. And these little things compounded into something. And the great news is, I believe about everybody on this call is we're just getting started. So, you know, it's, it's. And by the way, one last thing. I don't really have this thing. I do compare myself to a lot of people on this call, like, where are you guys at on this? What's your body fat? But I don't let that be the leading factor of why I want to do it. You know what I mean? Because if you live in envy, if that's the only spot you live in, in jealousy, those might not be the right people. Those might not be the right people.

Travis (44:22)

Tommy, I, I think, I think you kind of covered something that I was going to add. I, I mean, obviously fitness and all that stuff, self development and learning for business. It's what we do. We're entrepreneurs. But one of the best things that I've invested in is, you know, I, I, I was a person at a funeral that was just stark face. People were crying around me. I didn't know what to say to them. And, you know, that's hard being a husband sometimes. And with a wife, that's an emotional being, and I never knew how to comfort her and stuff. So I, I really, I did therapy to learn more about. I, I always worked because I could control work. I could suppress feelings and work and just go to work, get through the day. And it gave me, you know, that instant gratification that, you know, a lot of us seek as entrepreneurs. But I, I noticed actually yesterday there was a kid that got off the bus and he was crying, and usually I'd be like, oh, I'm looking the other way. I don't want anything to do with that. I don't know how to comfort this kid. And I walked over to him, and I put my arm around him. I said, hey, man, what's going on? Are you all right? And he's like, I just not. I'm not feeling good. And, you know, I just had a long day. And I said, I'll walk you home. Make sure your parents are home. And I think that just. I've seen a drastic change in my relationship with my kids, with my wife, and I was proud of that because I've never been able to show any sort of emotion or support people while they're having emotions. And so I think it's my wife that encouraged me to do therapy. And I wasn't real thrilled about it, but I think, overall, it's done a lot for me. So if you guys haven't tried it, I'd say, hop on. It's easy, man.

Chris (45:54)

Emotional IQ is such a big deal, and it's overlooked quite a bit by people. And it's like, some people don't know how to say thank you. People give me gifts, and I'm uncomfortable because I don't. Like, I really care, and I'm grateful they did it, but I don't. Like, I'm uncomfortable saying thank you. Like, I almost kind of feel like, oh, man, I didn't need that. Like, but I'm grateful for it. You know what I'm saying? So I get awkward in those moments. I do like to give, though. I love being able to give people things and give gifts. I would say that's my love language, but I. I don't know if there's. You know, I think we all have some version of ADHD on this. On this call here, but there's different versions of that.

Aaron (46:29)

I think I'd ask the group just, you know, because I think that for a lot of contractors that might be listening to this, that therapy and counseling has been kind of a taboo subject. Like, you're kind of a wimp if you've got to go to therapy or whatever. Like, 30 years, that was the mentality. I mean, I think. I think Travis is just vulnerable there and said, like, hey, you know, that. That was a big thing for me. I. I can tell you that for me, too, I've had. I have one coach and one therapist, so I got two of them that I meet with at least every other week trying to develop, and I'd second that, But I think it's good. It's very helpful. It gets my emotions leveled out so I can think more clearly at work and it helps me also understand and react to people differently when they are having their emotional breakdowns and things. And before I was just like Travis, I'm like, hey, if I walked in on someone crying in their office, I just shut the door and just walk the other way and pretend like I didn't see it.

Travis (47:26)

You're all right, toughen up.

Aaron (47:30)

But I mean, anyway, I just, I just wanted people and you guys can volunteer information too if you're at the same spot. But yeah, I don't. I hope that people listening to this realize that for a lot of very successful people, either having a coach or a therapist or both is like super critical.

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Chad (49:54)

I'll add one thing before we change subject. Learning to be alone. That's probably one of the dopest things that I've learned in the last, you know, in this phase of my life is learning to. I'm loving to like being alone, enjoying myself. Like before, I hated B. Leno. I needed to be around my daughters. I needed to be around my friends. I need to be at work. People need. I needed like, you know, validation for people so I can feel good. And I think the last two years I've been really like, deep, going deep into like, just like being by myself is being cool, man. Like, it's not always, you know, being around the noise that makes you feel good. I've learned to be alone is also a good thing too. So if there's, you know, hopefully it helps the contractors out there. It's not always. It's not always bad to learn to love yourself alone too.

Chris (50:42)

Is that why you do so many Irish goodbyes? Just bounce. Tommy loves to be alone too. I think we all know that. Never.

Tommy (50:55)

I all I would say, listen, I, I want to add one small thing. I know we got to move on. Gino Wickman, I did a podcast with him. He came out with the best management system. What is it called? It's an acronym, eos. And he said, man, I work so hard for this business. I put my life. I, I literally, I didn't hang out with family. I never, I was there with my family, but I was never there. And he goes, the day came, man. The, the. I get the ring the bell. For, for him, it was selling 87 and a half percent of his business. And I got this, all this money, but I felt this huge void, this, this massive cloud of emptiness, this lack of purpose. And so he wrote the book called Shine. And it's a great book. But for me, it's like having purpose. There's a great book about a guy in the Holocaust that lives and it's a man's search for meaning. And really now I'm like, what is my purpose? What's the meaning of this? What am I doing well? How am I being intentional and being around the same like minded people and actually reflecting a little bit, which is hard for us to do as entrepreneurs. So if you could reflect and really understand what you're going for, what are people going to say? And seven habits of Highly Successful people. He said, what are people going to say at your funeral? And I Just thought, I hope it's a really sunshine and rainbows and it's outside and nobody's wearing black. And they say I was better off for meeting that guy. He did everything he said he was going to do. That's all I want.

Chris (52:18)

Yeah, I think that where I was going with it before Tom cut me off because apparently my comment wasn't as important as his, but definitely not was. There's, there's a. Like I. Because I have adhd, but as part of mine, like, I'm also a empathetic person, so I feel people's feelings sometimes. Like I can watch a movie and I see and I'm proud for somebody and I can feel that feeling like I'm proud and I have no clue who these people are. And. But I have to, I've had to like, learn to do that for like, for myself. I think that's weird that I can be that way towards people I don't even know, but, like, not even towards myself. And so I had to learn that skill. And you guys remember this. I think it was a little over a year ago in July or so, I went to that Rise Up Kings conference that was. It's like a personal development boot camp, faith based thing. And that's where I Learned like the four Fs. And I talked to some of you guys about it in depth and basically you just got to open up everything. Like the day one when you get there is, they say, cool, we're going to go into your deepest, darkest cave and we're going to pull out all the shit that you don't tell anybody about and we're going to talk about it in front of a group of people, I don't know, all other business owners. That's an awkward day. But it was like so relieving when I pulled all that out of there because everybody had like a bag of shit that they had to pull out that they had something going on that you're like, that was crazy. That was like one of the most, one of the most healthiest moments in my life because that was the one thing I've always avoided, was pulling that out and talking about it. And it was holding me back from this business and I needed to be my best, you know, in this business today. So I went and did that. And that's why I started journaling. And I journal on those same four topics, Tommy, that you and I talk about with Faith fitness folk or your, your faith family, fitness and finances. And I'm like, how am I performing in all Pillar of these lives. So this is the first time that I had. I didn't, you know, I was a member of it, and I stopped paying that membership and I actually hired a coach. And I didn't hire the coach to help me with business. I hired one of the coaches just to. To be, you know, to help me with just my, like, navigate my life. Am I doing the right things? Where am I falling short? How can you help me just be there? Like, keep speaking life and shit into me? Because I need that. Like, listening to that coach when I was on that training was like, the thing that gets me jacked up. And I brought him on the podcast. I see his clips. So I'm like, dude, would you just coach me? He's like, for what? I'm like, I don't know, like, life. Just talk to me through things. I have problems and listen. And he does have a business, thankfully. But it made such a big difference in my overall performance with Anna and the kids with this business as a leader, you know, everything. And so I feel like I've been showing up really, really, you know, at my peak right now, and it's because I focused on myself. So. Okay, I am going to try and pivot here, guys. So I'm going to get this last little. This last piece and actually, let me throw it out to you guys. Do you guys want to hit on this prepping to sell deal? You want to hit on AI, or do you want to hit on the, like, pricing? This pricing thing that we. That these guys. It's more tactical in. In that conversation. But where you guys think that we're.

Tommy (55:10)

Why don't we do. Chris, we got three minutes. Why don't we all have one minute to close out on whatever? I don't. Unless you want to go over, because I thought you had a tight.

Chris (55:19)

Oh, we only got. We got three minutes. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. This is my ADHD baby. Thank you for keeping me in line.

Tommy (55:27)

I'll close out with one thing that I thought was. I just read this and I shared it with a lot of you guys, but I think most of you guys already know this. And it's just a quick thing about PayPal. PayPal hired a head CEO of content. This is what you need to know. The job pays over $200,000 a year. The mission is simple. Make sure the CEO, Alex Chris, is visible, consistently posting. This isn't about getting likes. It's about building trust with investors, inspiring employees, and keeping PayPal top of mind against competitors like Apple Pay and Google PayPal is proving that in 2025, the personal brand of the leader is as important to the brand of the company. Takeaway visibility is no longer a nice to have for leaders. It's part of the business strategy. If your audience cannot see you, they will forget you exist. If they can see you often enough with the right message, you shape how they think before they ever speak to the company. The difference between a CEO who shows up online who does not can be millions of talent, attraction, customer trust and deal flow. So the stuff you're doing and all you guys are starting to do this, it's not really an option anymore. I noticed Gaynor's posting a lot more but every one of us should be thinking about not trying to post for likes but posting for intention. We can attract one employee co worker that could change everything. One, one client, they could put in a massive order and just introduce you to 10 great people. So I think that's my, my takeaway or my last thought, my closing statement.

Chad (56:52)

Guys, I'm going to do with reputation over revenue now more than critic, now more than ever because of private equity coming in and all these AI tools getting used where people are going to start losing their reputation and people are going to kind of get lost in the technology. I want to make sure that everybody, you know, Warren Buffett always said that the one thing that, you know, they could lose money in a quarter, they could lose money in a month, they could lose money here and there. But the one thing that could, they could never lose is the reputation. And I believe right now the home service is in the middle of a, of a turmoil where, you know, people are fighting for revenue or reputation when it should be always, always should be, always be led with reputation. You can never lose the reputation of your company and the integrity of your, of your company with your clients.

Gaynor (57:34)

I'll just say I'll keep it pretty simple here. I think, I think it's an opportunity for people need to get re reignited with their businesses and get excited about the future. Right now I think, you know, home service is still a great industry to be in. It's a great opportunity to build great trade people and I think just focusing back on the people of the industry that do this work, making sure they get the right skills, the right trait, the right ability to do the work, the right support, mentally, physically to do that right and make sure that we're out there. This, this workforce is young people right now. There's a lot of young people. We just did a study in our own Business and average age age at our business right now is 30 years old. And in the field, 50 of our field is under 27 years, under 27 years old. So, like, we have to understand the workforce, who we're working with and what we can do to develop these young. Most of them are young men. So it's understanding young men and what they need today to succeed in life and how we can provide for them. So I guess I'll just leave it as like, reconnect with the workforce. Never lose connection with the workforce and who you work for in the business, because those are the ones that make it happen for us and realize what chapters of life your workforce is in and understand how you can build your business to support them while taking care of your customers, reputation, all those great things. So that's what I'll just say quickly.

Travis (58:47)

We got event season coming up, so I will say that, you know, we're not in the same market we were during COVID Things have changed and I think people have become complacent at times and they're trying to run their business the same way. But, you know, we're going all going to be at these events, we're going to learn a lot. But your business grows at the speed you make decisions. So I used to always wait for a system to be perfect. I've learned really well from Ishmael that you just got to roll it out like one step forward is better than no progress at all. So don't be complacent and make your decisions and know, see it through.

Aaron (59:21)

Yeah. I'll just say in the. With all this technology coming about, people can get scared and they can get complacent, or they either get complacent or they get scared or whatever. And then some people are just going to jump on it and, and accept it and have it with open arms. And like Travis said, you can't do business the same way you did before. Whether it's Covid or whether it's technology changing or whatever else. In the words of Vahe Gozoyin, the founder of ServiceNow, he said, look, in the world of knives, a gun has appeared. And you're either gonna be the one holding the gun or you're gonna be the one carrying the knife, trying to battle it out, you get to decide. And I'd recommend hopping on the technology and making sure you have every tool possible in your arsenal to be able to win.

Chris (60:03)

Master Chad. Bring us home, baby.

Hoffman (60:05)

All right. Yeah. I mean, I think to kind of piggyback off Tom's point. I think that, yeah, there's a lot of great technology out there, but I think that a lot of people need to understand that technology is not going to solve the problems in your business. It's going to enhance your business that is run by all of the blocking and tackling that you're paying attention to. These businesses are super simple. It's when we start to go outside the lines and think this new idea is going to solve it and we don't have to pay attention to the building blocks that got us to where we are. Again, I can guarantee you that everybody here runs very big businesses. But if you talked about what are the five most important things, I would imagine booking rates going to come up, conversion rate, average tickets, all of the building blocks. It's not going to be like, yeah, we started using this wild thing and now we don't have to pay attention to that. So, you know, as the macro environment changes rapidly around us, technology is introduced. I think it's important to continue to focus on the building blocks of what got you here.

Chris (61:07)

Love it. Hey, guys, I appreciate you for coming on here. I know how much you are worth an hour. So I appreciate you guys giving me an hour and poured into all of our listeners. I mean, so cool that we have this kind of talent in our group and that we get to tap into it frequently. So it's so cool to share it with all the listeners. I appreciate you guys. And again, like you guys were mentioned, we're going to be at all these shows. So I mean, while you're there, come and take advantage. Go meet all the guys that they're there, ask some questions. You know, that's. We go there to help you and answer questions. You know, we were going to learn, but we're also there to help. So I'm gonna go and let these guys roll out of here. But to our listeners, you know, got to do everything, but you got to do something. No zero days.