Building a $30M Home Services Business & Still Independently Owned | VIP Guest Jason Hanson

Summary

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Podcast Summary: To The Point – Home Services VIP Room Podcast

Episode: Building a $30M Home Services Business & Still Independently Owned
Date: May 12, 2026
VIP Guest: Jason Hansen (Owner, Sierra Pacific Home & Comfort, Sacramento, CA)
Host & Panel: Chris (Host), Chad Peterman, Ken Goodrich, Guest Co-Host, Tommy Mello

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Overview

This inaugural “VIP Room” episode features a candid, behind-the-curtain roundtable with four heavy hitters in the home services space. The main focus: how Jason Hansen grew Sierra Pacific to a $30M multi-trade powerhouse while remaining proudly independent. The discussion goes deep on growing via diversification, the realities and philosophies of staying independent vs. selling, and what drives true leadership and company culture.

The panel also explores the importance of defining your own goals—whether that means selling to PE for a windfall, building a legacy for team members, or simply building a business that serves your life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sierra Pacific’s Unique Journey & Jason’s Leadership Philosophy

• Origin Story:

  • Sierra Pacific began as a solar pool heating and water heating company in 1984, riding the wave of California’s solar initiatives.
  • Founder Mike Daly pivoted after the state solar program bust, acquiring a local company’s assets and customers to launch Sierra Pacific.
  • Over two decades, the company diversified into HVAC, then became a pioneer in grid-tied solar electric.

• Jason’s Entry (06:31–09:00):

  • After a Marine Corps career, Jason’s path ran through Service Experts and Lennox, where Sierra Pacific was his account.
  • He eventually mortgaged everything to buy the business in 2007, just before the 2008 financial crisis. He leaned on the company’s solid foundation and focused on learning solar, then expanding HVAC.

• Multi-Trade Model (10:11–11:00):

  • Today, Sierra Pacific offers HVAC, plumbing, electrical, solar (electric and battery), and niche pool heating—owning over 50% market share for solar pool heating in Sacramento.
  • Jason calls their pool heating segment a “rooftop plumbing business”—a niche but lucrative add-on that leverages their competence and customer base.

• On Innovation:

  • “A lot of the pool industry doesn’t really know how to treat that part of the business...it’s a niche. I wouldn’t recommend it to everybody, but it’s a gold mine.” – Jason Hansen (10:37)

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2. Diversification & Adding Trades (18:04–20:43)

• Lessons Learned:

  • “You have to have the right people, the right talent that will grow, lead that trade, and be focused on it.” – Jason Hansen (18:44)
  • False starts happen when the right operator and expertise are missing (windows failed for him).
  • Each new trade must be treated as its own core business.
  • Leverage existing client relationships—especially valuable with higher-income “pool” homeowners.

• Memberships & Cross-Selling (15:42):

  • Solar pool service creates annual recurring service calls (spring startup, winter shutdown)—each a touchpoint to leverage for HVAC/plumbing/electrical services.
  • “I want to put a moat around that house...I don’t want any other home service company to get close.” – Jason Hansen (15:42)

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3. Independence vs. Selling

• Jason’s View (25:01–28:02):

  • Not all home services owners need to sell or “cash out.” Jason enjoys running the business, its “lifestyle,” and the sense of purpose that comes with supporting his team and community.
  • “I expect this business to be an enduring business...My purpose is to ensure it has a fortress-level balance sheet and endures long after I’m well into the grave.” – Jason Hansen (25:01)

• Ken Goodrich’s Advice (26:45, 28:02):

  • “You don’t have to sell. There’s nothing wrong with building a very well-run organization, living off the cash flow. And you build it with the ability to sell in mind...but you don’t have to build to sell.”
  • Suggests shifting from working in the business to working on it, and in some cases, even owning multiple well-run “cash-flow machines.”

• Private Equity FOMO (28:02, 29:47):

  • The recent PE frenzy created “FOMO” (Fear of Missing Out).
  • Many sellers, Ken claims, sold because they hated the daily grind without good systems—not because they truly wanted to exit a great business.

• Legacy & Retention (29:47–30:58):

  • Jason’s proudest moments: employees retiring after 30+ years, building a culture where team members can thrive long-term.
  • “To be able to tell people: In the home services business, you can retire and have done really well—I love that part of my story.” – Jason Hansen (28:02)

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4. Culture, Leadership, and Retention

• Staying Power (43:19):

  • Jason has mostly avoided losing key leadership to PE-raids—attributing it to strong culture and clarity about what his company is and isn’t.

• On Talent Competition:

  • Tommy Mello highlights the fierce talent war: “People want the high salary, bonus, and equity. There are a lot of places that treat their people right.” (40:00–41:02)
  • Panel agrees: staying competitive requires more than just cash—team members want clarity, purpose, and sometimes a clear path to wealth.

• The Happy Warrior Mindset (30:22–31:53):

  • Leading a business “is not something that you just delegate out...leadership has a burden, and you have to love the fight.” – Jason Hansen (30:58)
  • “You’ve got to get to a place where the business becomes your art...Once you get to that place, that’s when the flywheel really starts to turn.” – Ken Goodrich (31:53)

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5. The PE/Exit Playbook & Employee Wealth

• Tommy Mello’s Story (32:33–34:48):

  • Took Ken’s advice to do a PE deal to learn board dynamics, access more capital, and build greater scale fast. Multiple employees became millionaires in the transaction—and there’s now a culture of running towards “the next check” (37:48).
  • “If you want to change the lives of the people that work for you, there’s got to be a date where everyone’s running towards a goal.” – Tommy Mello (37:48)

• Equity Incentives & Deadlines (49:18):

  • Tommy and Chris discuss the difference between profit sharing and true equity incentive programs (EIP), but stress an EIP doesn’t matter if there’s no clear timeline or event to trigger a payout.

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6. Balancing Work, Life, and Legacy

• Cameron Herold’s Question (45:05):

  • “What did you like to do when you were 14?”
  • Tommy shares that while he loves growing companies, he’s now putting more focus on hobbies and spending time with family—realizing “success” shouldn’t be defined only by work.

• Personal Takeaways (47:33–48:47):

  • “We all should have a top 20 things that are non-negotiable that we love to do, that we make time for.” – Tommy Mello

• Final Advice (54:58):

  • “Don’t talk about it. Be about it...Perfection will kill progress.” – Host’s closing, citing a quote often said to his team.

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Notable Quotes & Their Speakers

• “You have to have the right people...treat [each new trade] like it’s your only business.”
  – Jason Hansen (18:44)

• “I want to put a moat around that house...so no other [service company] can get anywhere close.”
  – Jason Hansen (15:42)

• “You don’t have to sell...There’s nothing wrong with building a well-run organization and living off the cash flow.”
  – Ken Goodrich (26:45)

• “In home services, you can retire and have done really well. I love that part of my story.”
  – Jason Hansen (29:03)

• “The creation of the business becomes your art...Once you get to that place, the flywheel really starts to turn.”
  – Ken Goodrich (31:53)

• “If you want to change the lives of people who work for you, there’s got to be a date where everyone’s running towards a goal.”
  – Tommy Mello (37:48)

• “Too many of us equate success only to work...Start to build stuff outside of work.”
  – Tommy Mello, recounting advice from Cameron Herold (45:15)

• “Don’t talk about it, be about it.”
  – Jason Hansen (00:02, 55:01)

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Key Timestamps for Reference

• [06:31–11:00] – Sierra Pacific origin, business model, and Jason’s background
• [15:42–18:44] – Cross-selling services via memberships, leveraging niche for stickiness
• [18:44–20:43] – Lessons in adding trades (the importance of right people & focus)
• [25:01–28:02] – Independence, lifestyle business, and the “enduring business” philosophy
• [28:02–30:58] – Legacy, retirements, and creating a lasting culture
• [31:53–34:48] – Ken Goodrich and Tommy Mello: PE deals, operations at scale, and new pace
• [37:48–41:02] – Employee wealth, incentives, and the talent war
• [45:15–48:47] – The balance of work, life, pastimes, and legacy
• [49:18–49:48] – Nuances of equity incentive programs
• [52:05–52:46] – Smart ways to expand trades (start with what you know best)

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Memorable Moments

• The episode’s playful barbs and “unscripted” vibe, with hosts joking about who talks over whom (“Grandpa Goodrich,” all in black attire, and self-deprecating humor about birthdays and experience).
• The wisdom exchange about buying struggling new-construction businesses for their service customer databases (Ken’s 2009 Sacramento story, 12:01–14:08).
• Real-life caveats about failed expansions—Jason’s failed window business because of the wrong people (18:44).
• Tommy’s frank breakdown of how PE exits can create genuine wealth for dozens of employees—and why clear timelines matter for team motivation (37:48).
• The closing rumination on what real success is—and the reminder to build your business to support your life, not just for a “big check.”

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in building a resilient, diversified, independently-owned home services business. Jason Hansen’s journey showcases how to leverage unique market opportunities, create sticky customer relationships through clever service plans, and build a culture that prioritizes both growth and employee well-being. The roundtable also pulls back the curtain on today’s PE-driven marketplace, fiercely debating the merits of staying independent versus selling out—and ultimately stressing that “success” is best measured by your own goals, not industry trends.

Whether you’re considering adding trades, pondering a sale, or building a legacy, this episode delivers strategies, thought-provoking questions, and hard-earned wisdom for any ambitious home services owner.

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Transcript

[Tommy]

What's the password?

[Jason Hansen]

Don't talk about it, be about it.

[Tommy]

Welcome in to the to the Point Home Services VIP room, where we invite you, the listeners, in to hang alongside some of the biggest, baddest and most successful VIPs of the home Services industries. You never know which surprise guest will show up next. So let's get this party started.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Hey, what's up? To the Point listeners, it's your boy. And this is the first episode in the to the Point Home Services VIP room. That's right, I said VIP room with my friends. And guess what? You, you, the listener, are also the vip. And we are welcoming you into our circle, into our conversations with our guests, with our. Whoever randomly pops into this episode, they'll be a part of it too. You never know. But today, the familiar face of Chad Peterman is on the screen, my co host now for, for a while, who makes, let's say, 80 of the podcast episodes. So we really appreciate your effort, Chad. The good news is, is our newest co host. So we thought, hey, let's add a third to this, you know, this podcast. So that way we've got another, you know, personality, another good friend of ours. And I'll be damned if you didn't miss the first one. Aaron Gainer missed the first one. So we have Mr. Goodrich filling in as our guest co host today for us, which I'm sure he'll be on here plenty. And so kg, it's always good to have you on here. And I'm excited, guys, for this new, this new style. It's kind of a little more free, right? Like, I don't have any constraints. I got full creative control, this thing, so I'm just gonna let it rip. Okay? Can we, can we, can we cuss? Ken, do you how well you know me? You think, you think it's gonna be okay?

[Ken Goodrich]

Just check them.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Yeah, I think we're gonna be just fine. But the fun of this whole thing is, I don't know if I was telling you guys this before, back in Indiana, where I'm from, we used to listen to this, this show called Bob and Tom. So Baba shock, Bobba, Tom show in the morning. And. And I always loved it because you had the same main characters. You got Bob, you got Tom, you have Chick and Christy Lee, which are some other like. But they're the main hosts on the show. You never know which guest is going to pop in. It's always kind of fun for the listener to hear those things too, and kind of stuck in the back of my Mind. And by the way Chad, I was listening to Pat McAfee talking about how Bob Cavoyan from Bob and Tom was the inspiration behind him going out in the zone and starting his own podcast. Well, that worked out well for him and I love the vibe of that podcast, like the barstool sports type stuff. So I'm gonna see if I can, we can attempt that in this home services space, but this is number one and our friend Jason Hansen, Captain Jason Hansen, Marine Corps guy Simplify is on the other end with us. He gets to be the first target of the vip. Jason, you are the first guest into the to the Point home searches VIP room Sierra Pacific up in S. Sacktown, just about what, 10 miles away or so from Folsom Prison.

[Jason Hansen]

Yeah, really close. Close enough, yeah.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

It's just where, that's where he gets his technicians. It's gonna be a cool story, but welcome to the podcast, brother. Excited to have you on here.

[Jason Hansen]

Yeah, thank you. It's fun to forge new ground. Like I said, being in, in new territory with all of you at the same time. So seeing you with this program for a while and now here it is on. I'm on the, the first show of the new format. It's awesome.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Yeah man, we're gonna have fun. So I've Jason and I've actually run into each other over the past month like probably for a couple different times at I think it was a Linux live meeting and then also last week over and why there's a group of contractors sitting over in Beverly Hills. Made no sense but we were there and there's about what 12 or so people in there. I think most are all independent still in that 20 to 50 million range. It was a great group of guys you guys have over there in. Rusty invited me over and so it's good to see you there. I just thought I'd like to start bringing some more people on the, the podcast that you know, you kg, you and Chad both know. Like we, we hear this for the same people so many times over all these years now that's nice to try and get some new, you know, some new guys in here and you know and, and Jason's got a great size business. I think he finished Last year around 27 million or something like that I think is what you sent me. And he's gonna with the plan to hit 32 this year. Now he's multi trade h vac, plumbing, electrical, the solar. I even saw pool equipment on the, on the site. So I'll be interested to hear what you're doing with all that, all that stuff, but it's still independent, still doing his thing. And I'll tell you, like, I even. We were together last week, you know, he's definitely one of those guys that will challenge you. Like, he's not. Not a yes man. He's certainly going to challenge you in your theory. He's gonna make you prove it. And I've always respected. Respect that about Jason. So, guys, I'm, I'm excited to just kind of hear what you're doing, man. Like, is independent the game that you want to stay in? You know, all these things. But. But first what I want the listeners to do is I kind of threw out, you know, the size of the business, Jay. But, like, maybe just. I think the company started in 84. Is 84? Is that what it was? Okay, so, Chad, you were what, two?

[Chad Peterman]

No, I wasn't born yet.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Oh, yeah.

[Chad Peterman]

86 was the year, my man. Big 40 this year. You gotta watch out getting up there.

[Sponsor Voice / Announcer]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Okay. Well, sorry, Ken. Sorry, Ken. Sorry. We got grandpa on here. You gotta be careful.

[Ken Goodrich]

You know, what happens at 40 at the Dr.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Didn't happen for me. Affording the doctor. But I know it's coming up. My birthday's tomorrow, guys. I will be 47.

[Jason Hansen]

Oh, wow. No kidding. Well, happy early birthday.

[Ken Goodrich]

That's awesome.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Thank you. So, hey, let's do this real quick, Jason. So maybe just kind of talk about for our listeners so they kind of understand. I did mention you were a Marine. You know, you're always a marine. Sorry. And I can imagine when I first started, you know, prepping for this podcast that you thinking about leadership would be too easy to go out, to go down that path with you. Like that probably comes natural to you, but I want to talk some about the actual operations of the business, but ultimately I just want to understand, like what you're kind of. You'll come up in with the. With Sierra Pacific and then get into some of the questions, maybe just share with our listeners a little bit of the cliff notes version of like your journey.

[Jason Hansen]

Yeah. So a different. A different journey for Sierra Pacific. It started in 84 as a solar pool heating, solar water heating company. So there you go.

[Ken Goodrich]

That's a.

[Jason Hansen]

Probably a first ever. Right? Just the origin of that is in the late 70s, early 80s, California had a big solar initiative going on, and that shut down pretty quickly overnight. And the founder of Sierra Pacific, a great businessman, great entrepreneur, great marketer, great salesman by the name of Mike Daly. The company that he was working for, kind of a regional was shutting down. And so he basically acquired the assets, some trucks and a customer base and said I got to go to work, I got to figure out what to do. So he basically just started Sierra Pacific here out of the ashes of that other company and started doing, you know, pool heating and water heating service. And he was great, great businessman and he saw an opportunity to, to diversify. So he got into heating and air a few years later and, and just, really just built a great business. And so over, over the 20 some years that he owned it, it diversified and grew its H Vac business and grew one of the first grid tied solar companies. Grid tied solar electric companies. And I actually met the business because my origin into the industry I started, I came out of the Marine Corps kind of later in my adult life and went into service experts at the time service experts in the Bay area started comerford service experts and then made my way into Lennox Industries. And then I was basically Sierra Pacific was my account and he was, he became more of a coach and a mentor to me. And at one point he just said look, I'm getting too long in the tooth to keep in this game and this company's ready to go to another level. I'd like to see somebody like you keep my people together. Because at that point the company had been about two decades and there are a lot of people that have been with him since nearly the beginning or a long time. And well built, well, well run company. And so I ended up, I mortgaged everything I had and a bunch that I didn't to acquire the company from in, in March of 2007. And at that time, at that time we were mostly a solar company. So I, I had to go to work to learn the solar business. And I had the privilege that again, it was a well built row, you know, running long well company. And I just could take some time in that first year to really learn another piece of the business, learn the people and then go to work on growing the H Vac side. And then of course out of the blue and you know, fourth quarter 2008 the financial crisis hit. So it kind of just changed everything for us overnight. But since that time we've, we've worked on diversifying the business really taking advantage of our, our, our clientele that we have a great relationship with on memberships and regular service and diversify into now plumbing, electrical and yes, we still do, you know, solar, electric and battery. But that pool meeting business is one of those little core pieces of our business that is a Niche, but so wonderful for us. So it's basically a rooftop plumbing business. It's really what it comes down to. So you know, there's the thumbnail for Sierra Pacific.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

I don't know that if anybody that I've heard of. I don't know about you guys, but that's done pool equipment in addition to the holy trinity of the trades. Like I don't know that that's something I've ever heard before. So you came in at what do the equipment.

[Ken Goodrich]

All the equipment or just the heater?

[Jason Hansen]

No, we'll do the. So we do the rooftop solar collectors. You see those polymer collectors? You know, not the, not the p. We do PV panels. But solar pool heating is a different technology. They got those different, you know, you know, people think they're plastic and call them plastic collectors, but we do those. But along with that, because we touch so many equipment pads, we do a lot of controls, intellisenters, you know, filters, heaters, things like that. You know, equipment pad is a gold mine.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

I love.

[Jason Hansen]

And a lot of the, a lot of the pool industry doesn't really know how to treat that part of the business. So we just. It's a niche. I wouldn't recommend it to everybody to get into. I mean you'd have to find a. Like in my market there's only three companies that can survive doing it year round. It's not a very big.

[Ken Goodrich]

And.

[Jason Hansen]

And I have over 50% of the market share just in Sacramento because the other two companies can't really keep it. But it's a, it's a unique business. It really is.

[Ken Goodrich]

So that's interesting. I like that business. And actually there's a couple of roll ups going in, in on that right now. So you got, you got something valuable there. Yes, sir.

[Jason Hansen]

It is a lot of money in the pool.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Now we know where the reformed folks from down the street are coming to work and that's on the solar side of the business because that would make the most sense. You know what, that's not very nice. But it's. It's funny joke. By the way, on the previous episode, I was wearing my Johnny Cash, you know, shirt. Which maybe that's just a coincidence, but

[Chad Peterman]

it was a coincidence that we're all three, all three of us are all wearing all black. What a great way to start this new thing.

[Ken Goodrich]

I missed the memo.

[Chad Peterman]

I know. Gosh,

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

we needed a little contrast. So. Thank you, Jason.

[Ken Goodrich]

Hey, before we get started too much, can I tell you quick? You're in Sacramento, right?

[Jason Hansen]

Right.

[Ken Goodrich]

So let me Tell you a little Sacramento story because I think this is good for everybody to listen to and you to understand the opportunities out there.

[Tommy]

Okay.

[Ken Goodrich]

In 2009, you know, the, the Great Recession, I picked up the phone and I called the CEO of Goodman and I said, hey, I bet that big company out there, Butler owes you a whole bunch of money and, and don't they? And he said, how'd you guess? And this was during the Great Recession and Bueller was the largest residential new construction company, H vac new construction company in America. We did over 200 million back then. And I said, well hey, if you get me in front of the CEO and let me talk to him about buying the service business out of that company and form my own service company there, I'll get you some money for the bill. So he brokers meeting, I go down there. Long story short, I bought the Name, telephone number, URL of butler which was a, I don't know, 70 year old brand at the time. Largest residential new construction company like I said, in the whole region or in the country. But certainly they own the region. They had installed over 600,000 systems and they had their name on every thermostat. So during due diligence I bought 30 trucks, I staffed them, I trained the people. At that time, we're using success where I got that implemented, Train got an office, we closed the deal, we transferred the phones. First year we did 27 million. Buying that database, phone number and URL because you know, they had so much installation in that whole area and I don't know where they are today. It got sold to Ars but you know there's, there's lots of opportunities to go there and be creative to go buy databases for new construction companies and such in that region because it grows so fast. Are they still around?

[Jason Hansen]

Oh yeah, they are. They're, they're, they're, they're not as formidable as they were when you were, when you were around here, but

[Ken Goodrich]

none of them usually are.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Well, let me ask you this question, Jason. Now that we had a history lesson from Grandpa Goodrich, think about that like,

[Ken Goodrich]

you know guys, you should, you should think about that methodology still available now.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

I know actually I just had this conversation with a, another player down in Georgia. It was not John, Jason. But they have like 80000 contacts. Like contact information from their new, new or their res. Their, their new build, like their, their new construction business. 80, 000 contacts. But they're not using that, not doing anything with. Oh God, just collecting it. 80,000. Holy. So anyway but I mean they're, they're obviously doing heavy and now they're trying to work into the residential, the service, add on replacement space more and wing themselves off of new construction. I'm like any thousand contact, it's a pretty way to start.

[Jason Hansen]

Yeah, some of it.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Hey Jason, do you get, because you have like a, you have the solar side of it when you, you have maintenance agreements, are all the services rolled into that? I mean, I don't know how it works because not every house has pools. But like how are you leveraged? Are you trying to leverage all these services into maintenance option?

[Jason Hansen]

Yes, absolutely. So the neat thing about solar pool heating business in Sacramento particularly, it doesn't work this way in all climates. But because of our weather variations, when we come to spring, these systems need to be started up. So there's a startup service and then in winter we winterize and we drain them down and there's some service work to be done there. So there's a built in service business there. And you know the great thing about working with pool owners, you know, just think about the typical demographic of a, of a single family home that has a pool. I mean you just, you just have a certain level of income. There's just another thing that's there, right. So our, our demographic tends to be of a higher income, tends to have a, just a better profile for us. So they own a home, they own a pool, they have, you know, they have all the home services needs. They probably are paying for some sort of a pool service. Now I don't do, I don't do filter, I don't do the maintenance thing. I'm not the chemical guy or any of that. That's a separate trade and I don't plan to try to compete with that. But the solar pool startup and shutdown business is really good for us because it puts us back on that house at least twice a year and then allows us to leverage that relationship over no other services. So our membership plans, we do have dual plans. So we'll take our solar pool membership plan and we basically really leverage hard and give the H Vac membership really discounted rate versus an H VAC alone. And so yeah, the whole point there is like I want to put them, you know, a moat around that house and I don't want anybody that does plumbing, electrical heating and air to get anywhere close to the services for that home if I can help it. So, and then we'll, we'll extend whatever our membership discounts are for heating and air. We'll Extend that into our plumbing and electrical services to, you know, just to entice and just make that, that, that client feel so much value for one call to do it all. So that's a, that's a key part of it. And of course, I've learned that from, you know, from others. You're just, you know, everything I do is just finding out what's working for others and then taking it and applying it to the Sierra Pacific brand and, you know, maybe tweaking it from here to there just to make it work for us. But that's not a, that's not a, an amazing concept.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

It's brilliant.

[Jason Hansen]

But it's, you know, it's well used and I'm just, you know, robbing and duplicating what that works.

[Chad Peterman]

Jason, one, one question. It seems like you've added, you know, since you took over, what, 20ish years ago, you've added trades along the way. You started with the, the pool heater and then added H vac, plumbing, electrical. What are some of the lessons you would say you learned from adding trades? I feel like I have like a roll. I have like a notebook on each trade we added and all of the p. Of doing that. Like, what, what are some of the things you could share that you ran into as you were adding those trades?

[Jason Hansen]

Yeah, I think the first one is you. You have to have the right people, the right talent that will, that will grow, lead that trade and, and, and be focused on it. So I have fall started in Windows. I, I had a. I, I acquired the building from the founders here in Pacific. So first I acquired his company, then I acquired his building. He complains to me all the time and says he took everything I got and said I didn't take everything. He's got a fortune for it. But, but in the building there was another, there was another tenant. And when I, as I was growing, I eventually pulled the tenant, like, hey, your lease is coming up and you need to move out. And I got to grow into it. And he's like, well, you know, how'd you like to buy it? We do windows and pores. And I'm like, seems like a good fit. Yeah, let's try to do that. And so I brought it over and it just, it just false started because I didn't have the right people to drive that. I'm not a windows guy, and I didn't bring the right people. So that was, you know, that I learned my lesson on that one right there. We just couldn't get traction on it. Without the right people there. So that was, I think that's the first one is if you're going to do it, you got to be dedicated to it. You got to treat it like it's your only business. Even though you have diversified businesses. I, my thought on that is like, okay, the opportunity is that you can diversify the challenges that you diversify you like your, your strength and your weakness hit you all at once. And if you don't treat each, each of those trades, those, those disciplines as it's the only thing you do, it'll be, it'll be hard to succeed no matter all the other things. You got brand going for you, you got, you got client loyalty, you got all that going for you. But if you can't go out and deliver and execute as if it's the only thing you do, then, then it seems to lose momentum. That's just, that's probably my, my biggest lesson there is is having the right people and then treat it like it's the only thing to do.

[Sponsor Voice / Announcer]

To the point listeners, listen up. What if the biggest thing holding back

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

your business isn't marketing or hiring, but your bennies? The benefits for home service companies, a better 401k be the difference between great techs and losing them to the shop right down the street. Basic Capital, our newest sponsor, is the only 401k built to actually put your team on a real path to retirement. Companies that switch over see higher participation, happier teams, and dramatically low turnover because your crew finally gets a plan that's a true benefit, not just a checkbox. Don't wait until your best people walk, make the move and click the link below to get 12 months with 00 employer fees when you join Basic Capital. Well, we have another guest popping here. Our first guest, Mr. Thomas Mellow. Tommy, welcome in here, buddy. I got Jason Hansen from Sierra Pacific up INO on as our guest.

[Tommy]

Jason, pleasure to meet you, brother. It's got the back half of pool heaters to H vac, the plumbing to electrical.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

I love it

[Jason Hansen]

by the way. I'm glad you got the memo.

[Ken Goodrich]

Black shirt today.

[Jason Hansen]

Yeah, it's okay.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

At least I'll open on your guys's screen. But on mine, Jason's like dead center at the top in the red so he stands out like Rudolph's nose. Well, we're just kind of getting into a little bit Tommy, to get you up about because he has all these different services, how he's rolling into maintenance agreements and different things like that. Grandpa Goodbridge shared a story about a deal he did in. In Sacramento. So. Hey, real quick, Jason, I want to just ask. So I, I know I kind of joked a little bit earlier about, you know, when I was prepping for the podcast, talking about leadership because of your, you know, Marine experience and being a leader in the Marine and what you learned just from being a Marine. You're a captain, right? In the Marine Corps. Was that. What was your final. What. Where was captain? Was it.

[Ken Goodrich]

That's.

[Jason Hansen]

Was that where I finished as a major, but I got out captain and picked up major right in the. Right as I go in my reserve time. So I got out of the captain and finished out as a major.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

But safe to say leadership's probably a core strength of yours. Is that, is that fair?

[Jason Hansen]

I won't brag, but I think I can handle people okay.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

And, but I actually want to kind of shift gears off of that and do more of the operator side of operation. The operation side of things. And it's a question that I kind of like to ask out of the gate. And I had a, I had a similar conversation with Anna with my wife last week about a totally different topic, but it was around being operator because she's a great operator. But is there a. What hill. What hill are you willing to die on as, as an operator? Is that, Is that what you're like? Let me take a step back. What is your main. What, what is your main role today? Like, which part are you. Are you. I'm not an operator. I'm a sales marketing guy. Where are you falling in that. In that. In that world?

[Jason Hansen]

I'm primarily marketing and sales.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Okay.

[Jason Hansen]

That's my main. And I enjoy that the most. I, I can tell you. I, you know, I was trained by operators. I came up. When I came out of Marine Corps, I went to work for Kevin Comerford and Ray Deals and I learned operations and sales and marketing. And I learned all from the ground up in there. And so that's, that's how I matriculated up in the business. And I ultimately just have found my, my favorite part of the business is marketing and sales. But being. I just have a, I have an appreciation for disciplined operations, for teams that just execute really tightly, you know. And so I always, I always love that part. But I work hard to like stay focus, stay in my lane on the, on the sales and marketing.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Well, you're talking these guys language around the discipline around systems. The process is all that fun stuff. But, but you're more like me, buddy. I'm on the sales and marketing set, I guess. Tommy's on that, on that side as well.

[Ken Goodrich]

So.

[Chad Peterman]

Go ahead, Kim.

[Ken Goodrich]

So you're at 27 million, said yes. So what's the goal?

[Jason Hansen]

We're Gonna shoot for 32 this year and then, you know, keep building every year.

[Ken Goodrich]

Any long term goal?

[Jason Hansen]

Well, you know, Ken, I, we, we had a call, I don't know, maybe six, six or eight weeks ago about generator marketing. You asked me about that and I said I like what I do, I like my lifestyle. Right now it's a lifestyle business and so I'm gonna keep doing it for a while. My kid, my kids are grown and out of the, out of the house. So they live in, they live in Texas now, so they're pretty far away. My wife and I enjoy our lifestyle so I'm not really ready to give that up. So we, we just keep, we like what we do, we like our purpose, we like our team around us. You know, we've had some of these conversations. I know I've had this conversation with, with Chris about just like the, the sense of purpose that I have right now. I am, you know, I'm the second owner of the business and I expect this business to, to be an enduring business. My purpose is to ensure it has a fortress level balance sheet inland endure long after I'm well into the grave. So right now in my custody it's a matter of taking care of my team and I enjoy the people I work with and that gives me a reward every day. So I don't have a problem like doing what I'm doing. I don't have a problem coming in and working with service techs and installers and sales teams and just working with the team, doing the daily huddle. So I'm not ready to give this lifestyle up. And I've got friends like, you know, Rusty Cochran and others that, you know, they, they've matriculated through different places in the, in the industry and I've watched that happen for me and I'm like, yeah, I like where I'm at right now. I think I'll just say, you know, doing what I'm doing. I don't have grandkids yet and I don't like that much golf and you know, kind of list goes on. So I like seeing where the business is going and I'm just going to keep doing it for a bit.

[Ken Goodrich]

Yeah, you know, that's, I think that's really important for the listeners to hear is you don't have to sell.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Right.

[Ken Goodrich]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with building a very well ran Organization with a management team. Especially if you aspire to say, I'm going to build a management team and come meet with them on ops meetings once a month and make sure they're heading the right direction and live off the cash flow. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And you build it with the ability to sell it in mind at, to be able to exit in when it's most opportune or most opportune for you. And that's with having a management team in place, somebody else can step in your place as a, as owner with a team operating for you that will drive the maximum value. But I talked to so many guys that believe now, because all the sales stuff's been going on, that they, they have to build a cell. You don't have to build a cell. You. There's nothing wrong. And in many cases, I think you can build a really, a better life and a better lifestyle by creating a cash flow machine, getting that one going and maybe working on another one later and, and having several of those going on you, if you've figured out the art of that.

[Jason Hansen]

Yeah, I, you know, there's, I see it out there too. I think there's a lot of these guys that have this fomo. They've seen the success that others have had and they're like, oh, I got to get in. I got to get in. And I don't, I just don't have that. It's not in my, it's, it's not in my vision right now. The way I feel about it is if you build a good business, this business will be valuable whenever the time comes for me. And I just, I'm just not in that spot right now where I, I have other things that I would, you know, enjoy doing more, feel more, reward doing. I just feel like I have a purpose here still. You know, one of the things, we didn't really get into it. I, when I, like I said, when I acquired the business, you know, it was in its, you know, 20, 22nd year maybe, but there have been a lot of people with the business, key operators, managers that, you know, I essentially acquired. But they were, they became loyal to me and they helped me and I was very, very successful with them. And one of the things that I was very proud to do is help men retire. They. I had people retire from this company. Two people retired after 36 years with the company. 34 years, 33, 31, 29, 28, 27 years with the company. And to be able to be able to tell people like hey, in the home services business, you can retire and have done really, really well for yourself in the home services business. And I've been able to do it. And I love that, I love that part of my story. I use it to recruit with. I'm proud of that legacy and I want to do more of that. I want to see that happen to other people. So I keep working that hard to help others get there. And I have people that I think deserve it and they're working hard for it and I want to see them accomplish it.

[Ken Goodrich]

Yeah, here's my bet. My bet that the majority of companies that sold over the last 7, 10 years in this latest PE fervor sold because they hated it. They sold because they didn't have good, solid business system in place and they were, you know, overworked and overburdened and overstressed and it was a gift from God that showed up one day and gave them a big check and relieved them from that. But they really didn't have a well oiled machine, a business system in place.

[Jason Hansen]

That's my bet. Yeah, I would say so too. But I, you know, here I am, I'm, I'm looking at the screen and here's four goats and you guys are amazing in your own businesses and, and so you guys have all done this and lived this. So I, I'm, I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but I definitely think in my mind you have to have a happy warriors mindset. You guys obviously do. Like, you're, you're good with the fight. Like, like showing up and running these businesses and leading people is not, is not something that you just delegate out and like, you know, not carry some burden. Leadership has a burden. Leadership is heavy. And you know, having that, you have

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

to love it and you have to

[Jason Hansen]

love the fight where it is like it's a, it's work to do those things. I, I just don't shy away from it. I like the work of, work of leadership and I think that there's people just like you can like. I do see some people where fatigue or they just didn't like it and they were having trouble, they didn't have the right systems and processes in place where they didn't have the right people. And you know, something happens in the business, it's not going as well as it was once going and then they get, they get defeated by it and, or they get, they just get tired and they're like, hey, I'm gonna shoot out. So I see that happen. I also see some great people who run great businesses and they turn around and they exit and they turn right back around and do the same thing all over again. And I think that's because they're, they're a happy warrior. They just like that. They just, they're good for, they're good for suiting up, booting up, and going to battle. And I, I think that's, you know, that's like. You like it or not. Yeah.

[Ken Goodrich]

I'm going to say this, I'm going to quit talking for a bit, but I'd say this one thing. To this point, I found that you got to get to the place where the creation of the business becomes your art. And so it's not work anymore. It becomes your art. And, and you're, you're, you're taking chances and, and experimenting with new things to make your art better. Once you get to that place, that's when the flywheel really starts to turn. You start to, to scale extremely fast in the. But if you don't have that system in place, it'll never be your art. It'll be. What do you think, Tommy?

[Tommy]

Well, you called me up one day and you said, I think you need to do a deal. And I said, why do you say that, Ken? And you said, well, you'll be at the highest multiple ever been done in the home service industry. One of them. You said, you're going to learn how to do a proper board meeting. Because right now you were on my board and we didn't have really good board meetings. They were kind of, you were like, this is not the right way to run a board meeting. You said, you're going to have to learn how to leverage capital. You're. You're going to need to learn how to build the right weekly deck. And once you get access to capital, if all that's done correctly, you'll be able to scale at 10 times faster speed. And you said, for you, I think this is the best move. Plus your parents. I don't know if you mentioned this, but this is something big for me. My parents had just turned 70 and I had enough money to pay for a vacation, but not enough to really let them live their best lives. So I had a bunch of different things that I wanted to do. And now we have the best weekly meetings, the best board meetings. We got access to Capital. We 4 1/2 x the business in 3 1/2 years, and I'm ready for another ride. And, you know, my goal was never to move slowly. And by the way, it's not easy to run at this pace. A lot of people, a lot of LPs are depending on US teacher funds and unions and pension funds and sovereign wealth and all kinds of stuff. So it's bigger stakes and it's definitely not easy for everybody on the team because we moved somewhat fast before, but now we've got to run like we've got to pivot in the middle of a month and move dollars around and actually have the top guys running calls and make sure we're advancing our training. And if there's one system broken, it gets all the attention. You got to ruthlessly prioritize. Can't run it like I used to run it when I had full control because now there's a lot more people at stake. There's people that have P units that are depending on that to change their generational tree or their family tree. It's just a lot more at stake. And I wasn't sure if I was going to love it, but I've kind of learned to love it.

[Ken Goodrich]

So I was right.

[Tommy]

You were right.

[Jason Hansen]

He got that one in

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

covers multiple ways to, to do this right. Like, I think even on this, even on here, with just a group of us, there's differences in how we did our deals or no deal right at all. And, and I do think it's okay. I talked to another guy last week who's doing the same thing, Jason, where he built this, well, old machine and he's like, I don't have an interest, you know, because of his age. Like Tommy, Tommy wanted to do this because of his parents age where he could do, you know, have no limitations on anything. And that's fine. That's his decision, what he wanted to do. How do you want to live his life? And that's how you should make your decision. Right. You know, Chad did something differently because he still has some Runway in front of him. He wants to go accomplish some more things and he's doing a deal that his way. I, I exited 100 and stayed in it and ran it for somebody else and realize that's probably not for me, so I'm gonna go do my own thing. But I, I, I probably fall into the category of I do like going, I love startup. I like going and doing the hard work. I like building the thing. I don't want to operate it, I just want to build it and go and do the sales and the marketing and the attention and all those. Like that's the stuff I enjoy doing. And so I'm grateful. I Still did it, because it did put me, put me in different circles for different opportunities, especially with my, with all these guys on here to go and have fun with my buddies, but still be able to try and run, you know, a business. To each their own, I think is the point. And I think Ken gave Tommy the best advice for what Tommy wanted to do. And I think because Chad, you guys. Well, Chad and, and I guess all of us on here, with the exception Jason, will know when you start talking about all these deals are happening, it certainly is easy to get caught up in that. Like when we hear in all of our friends, everybody's trying to thinking about doing these deals back in like 20, 21, 22, 23. Like, fairly easy to get wrapped up in that when you're hearing the numbers that these guys are getting. And it might take you out of what you thought you wanted to do with the business because it's a big check. And, you know, Chad could have done something much, much earlier, but it didn't, you know, and now we had time to let all that stuff settle. It's like, well, what do we really want to do now? That's not like, you know, the money is going to be there when you're ready to do it, is the point. So I don't want the listeners be on here thinking like, no, it is what you, it is what you want it to be. I think the option is yours, right? That's what I'm hearing on here is the option is yours to build this and be whatever you want. Now, Jason, you got a good business, you're in a great market and, and you do multi trading. If you were to ever layer into something else, you know, you like, layer in another thing. Is it something that you could roll into your service, you know, your maintenance agreement, that would help it, you know, scale that, that service line a little bit faster, too, because Chad and I were talking about greenfielding versus just buying a small little mom and pop that's already got a book of business. So that way on day one, we're not just sitting there twiddling our thumbs. You know, he's not twiddling his thumb trying to figure out where the lead's going to come from. He's already got a book to start going and running. I know Ken loves working the lists. So you just kind of, I think,

[Tommy]

well, here, here's one thing, though. Let me just point out one thing is, is 24 millionaires came out of the first deal and they busted their ass for it. Every employee right now gets treated as a W2, including myself. That means they pay ordinary income, which is somewhere between 40 and 50%. Some states that'll run up to 55%. There's no way around that. So when the equity check comes, it's treated as capital gains. That's how your team could get true wealth. So depending on what the plan is. For me, it was on this next deal, I want 50 more millionaires and a lot of guys are getting 500 grand. So for me it was like, how could I make the most impact for the people that helped me grow the company now? Yes, along the way some guys get big ass bonuses. I don't know any way to pay that in capital gains though. So for me it was like, man, if I'm going to make this team run and they're going to put their heart and soul into this and their families, you know, I try to create a fair work life balance, but some of these guys put in 60 hours a week when we have big goals to hit. Is like they started asking, well, when's my turn? Do I get to actually bring home the money and get paid at 23% or am I always gonna. You could pay me a million dollars, but half of that's going to the government. So there is some other good things that come out of that enterprise value when it turns. And I'm not saying that should be everybody's full intent, but if you're really going to change the lives of the people that work for you, there's got to be a date to where everybody's running towards a goal, at least in my point of view. And Jason, I'm not saying, look, grow the company, keep doing what you're doing, but eventually when you hit that date and you say, guys, if we hit this number, then everyone's going to get paid. I think that actually moves faster, but I don't think that should be the only consideration to growth.

[Jason Hansen]

Yeah, I've heard that. I've heard you and others talked about that before. And to your point, yeah, I can see there will be a time, you know, conditions change, situations change, new information. Maybe I'll make a new decision and, and you know, with that and then set a target and set that for this team, you know, that's, that's a future. But it's not.

[Tommy]

It's just, it's just everybody. Ken's called me up and talked to me about this and, and Chad knows this and you know, Chris has been through this is. The talent race is hard out there. We need A lot of people to come in to the trades. I think we're missing about 350,000 people. And if somebody's got a shinier object, and I hate to say this because it should be more than just the money, it should be culture, it should be a lot more things. But a lot of people now want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want both. They want the high salary with bonus and they want equity. And there's a lot of options out there. There's not as much talent as what's needed. A lot of people are coming into the trades, but not near enough. And so like I've been having these conversations of like, wait a minute, they offer you what to leave, you know, and, and it's tough and look, I, I think I've got a lot of loyalty and they give me the second look at it and it's, it's like, what am I supposed to say? Don't leave because I've always treated you right. Well, a lot of places treat their people right.

[Chad Peterman]

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[Ken Goodrich]

Have you lost anybody, Jason? To private equity money? You know, guys saying they'll throw. Yeah. Units or be it your employees.

[Jason Hansen]

So, no, not. I have not. And that's a, that's a. I'm, I'm, I'm in a good spot in that area there. I, There was a terror. There was a period of time where at the, at the technician level, it was, there was a, there was a real battle out there for that. And we, you know, we were in the mix on the fight on that. That hurt first time and that one really hurt, but not at, not at the leadership level like that. So I've been pretty, I've been pretty good at that level and, and I feel, you know, fortunate that standpoint. I work hard at that. To Tommy's point. Like, you know, there's times where it's just like, hey, you know, some people are looking for, they're looking for another thing and you know, I hug and release and like go for it and then. But if you're looking for a certain thing, you know, we, we have our own, we're our own. You know, we got our spots, they got stripes, if you like spots. This is a great place for you. This is what we do. We have a certain lifestyle here. We have a certain culture. If you like that culture. You, you know, I have a leadership lice, you know, style. If you like my leadership style versus that style, you know, I, you know, that's, I'm just gonna win on that level right there because I'm not in, I'm not in that phase right now where I do have a second bite of the after people to, to consider and I, you know, they'll come a point in time where I'm sure that that's going to work out for me, but I'm not prepared. I don't want to throw that out there yet because that's not where I'm, I don't have a, I don't have a destined timeline on that. Like, okay, here's where I want to get to. So I'm, as I mentioned earlier, I'm enjoying my lifestyle and what we're doing right now and I'm staying in that phase until I get out, until I'm ready to get out of that phase and then I'LL then I'll lay down the tracks for that, you know, last

[Tommy]

thing I got to jump off in a minute. But I had Cameron Herald, we worked with him for a while. He's a really cool guy. He's speaking on my vertical track.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

COO of 1-800-got junk. Is that right?

[Tommy]

Yeah, he was his T.O. and, and he's been through 1-800-got junk and college hunks, painting and just work with a lot of companies. And he told me, he goes, tommy, what do you love to do? He goes, this is a question I ask a lot of people. And I go, cameron, you're not going to like my answer. I like marketing. I like to figure out conversion rates. I like to hire, I like to do orientations. He's like, he told me to basically F off. He's like, that's work. He's like, what'd you like to do when you were 14? He's like, do you like to bowl? Do you like to go skiing? Do you like to go on water and go boating? Do you like to fish? He's like, dude, he's like, your life cannot be. He goes, I don't have a house anymore. He goes, and this is probably too much for you to ever consider, but I travel. I was in Europe last week. I'm back in Canada. I'm with you in Paradise Valley right now. He goes, too many of us equate success to only work. And, you know, I'm probably the only one on here without kids. And I'm planning on moving into that opportunity next year or possibly 20, 20, 20, 28. But the point is, is that was a wake up call too, is like, you know, start to build stuff outside of work, start to not have my, my complete fun tied into work. Although I like to grow stuff. I want to leave a legacy of a business and I, I want my kids to know dad still works. But it really meant a lot to me to think, man, there are a lot of things I love to do that I haven't been able to do. And I'm not going to golf every week, and I definitely not going to be at the beach every week. And I'm not going to be traveling to Europe every week. But I know there's one thing. I mean, the average person lives to be 76, 77 years old. The parents, you know, theoretically have a few more years, and I can't get, I can't buy the time back. So for me, it's definitely looking myself in the mirror and saying, what's the most important things really meaning it and saying you know if I could create success for a lot of people that have helped me come win on this mountain that's going to be big. But I better get serious about what I love to do. And it can't only be work. And started to put more times into pastimes and things that'll keep me happy and stories that'll be like I remember going on that hike with my best friends and and so that, that, that was a tough conversation he had with me. That kind of was a wake up call this past year.

[Ken Goodrich]

What do you love to do, Tommy?

[Tommy]

I love to hopefully drive the Stancraft. I like spending time with Bri. We're going on a date night every week now. I just everybody I've talked to said you don't even know how much of a miracle you're excited about kids but your life will be 10 times more purposeful and purpose driven with kids to watch these little guys come out that you have no idea how they act and who they got their personality traits and the funniest stories. So that's a big one for me is just making sure I'm the best dad. But the stand craft is going to be fun. I definitely want to go fishing. You know I love to shoot pull. I love to go to my dad's house and shoot. If I could shoot 30 games in a row I would usually we do a race to 10 and 8 ball but you know I love to bowl. You know I love to play golden tea. I love to entertain but I love to try new food but I don't like to be there all night because I like to do stuff. I like to play cards. You know that. But the point is I want a better answer and I think we all should have a better answer of this is like the top 20 things that are non negotiable that I love to do that I'm going to make time for.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Great question. I. I also think that if. If what's important to you, Tommy and all of you is creating those opportunities for others but not having to sell and maybe a good incentive is and is an EIPRO option an equity incentive program which I think I've talked to both Chell and Tommy about at some point. Actually Tommy, I think maybe even your one of your guys was helping build that or Chad, what you I can't remember one of you two guys was helping me when I was trying to figure that stuff out in the EIP program.

[Tommy]

Well profit sharing is different. Profit sharing is different than equity incentive. An EIP program is fine of stock. It doesn't actually equate to anything till the company changes control. So it'll vest over five years based on time and usually some performance metrics, but EIP is perfect. But here's the deal. EIP doesn't matter to anybody if there's no deadline or goal.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

True.

[Tommy]

I mean, hey, I want to give you 20% of the company because you've been loyal for me for 15 years. Hey, when's that going to come to fruition? Well, we're not sure yet.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

I gotcha.

[Jason Hansen]

Good point.

[Ken Goodrich]

Hey, Jason, let me ask you this.

[Jason Hansen]

So you.

[Ken Goodrich]

You bought the. You bought this solar heating business, right? What else did they do? A regular at the time, yeah.

[Jason Hansen]

At the time, I had a small piece of heating in air.

[Ken Goodrich]

Okay, so you. And you knew that from your experience with Comerford. And did you learn plumbing when you were with Comerford?

[Jason Hansen]

Nope.

[Ken Goodrich]

Okay, now what was your next trade?

[Jason Hansen]

My next trade. So they did. I had to learn the solar pool and solar electric. When I came, I took and grew the heating and air business. I think the next trait I really have learned, I learned water treatment, water softeners. Water softeners. We had always done water heaters, but then we just had this entry into water treatment, water softeners. And, and I. This is, I think, going back to one of Chad's questions, I was able to. To hire on a plumber as a good plumbing operator. And, and he was a blessing, and he took water treatment and has expanded out into plumbing. And so that's really. That's really the, The. The next best diversification we really did is just. And that's got probably. That's got some of our biggest upside potential is grow our plumbing business. We. I'm really excited about that. In fact, I like to tell people I'm a plumber now, mostly just for the fun of the response. You know, depends on where we are. We may be in. We might be in Beverly Hills at the polo club. And, you know, people ask, what do you do? And we're like, I'm a plumber. I like that.

[Ken Goodrich]

Hey, listen, I mean, I haven't seen a lot of guys do that, but I've always counseled guys to do that. I was always tell them, look, though, you get. These guys are doing three, two, three million bucks. Like, oh, now I brought on a plumber. I'm going to start my plumbing department. And, you know, in my E. Myth book that I. That I wrote with Gerber, I. I said, I Wouldn't try another trade unless you're 1, 2, 1, 2, or 3 or 1, 2 or 3 in the first trade you started. Then you add on the other one from there.

[Tommy]

I agree with you, but.

[Ken Goodrich]

But if I always said that the H vac guy should own the water softener, the water conditioning system, and the water heater.

[Jason Hansen]

Right.

[Ken Goodrich]

We should own that as part of our service. And that would be the entree into eventually starting your plumbing business rather than just jumping in. Because what I learned from starting plumbing was plumbing is a lot more complicated than most people think. Most people think, oh, you know, we got, you know, same tool, similar tools, a van, this and that. It's the same thing. It's not the same thing, but the way you started is a very sharp, sophisticated way to do it. Good job.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah, Ken, I wish I would have talked to you 10 years ago. That'll make things a hell of a lot easier.

[Tommy]

Hey, Jason, Pleasure to meet you. I love you guys. I appreciate the time today, Chris. This is great. I like the new format.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

All right, we'll see you guys. I know, I know. Chad's got to go to. He's got to go take. Thank you, Tommy. Well, listen, Jason, I'm not sure if I actually got a lot accomplished or not, but I think, I think that I got through one question of all of mine, and that's okay.

[Jason Hansen]

I got time.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

Couldn't get Chad to shut up. But anyhow, like I said, you know, these, you know, it's. I think this kind of went the way I hope it would. It would go is it's just a normal, free flowing conversation that's kind of unscripted now. I have, like, my own genuine curiosity on questions and, and Ken always does too. Chad does, Tommy does. And it just kind of comes out. That's like a normal conversation with all of us, right? Like, and that's kind of how I hoped it would go. And, and actually what I thought would be nice, I thought about doing towards the, towards the end of these things, moving forward, is you're sitting, you know, in the VIP room as a guest as well, with people who can certainly answer some questions that you have, like whatever you're being hang up now or the challenges now and you have the opportunity to ask, you know, a Can or a Chad or anybody who's in there who's, you know, much larger than you guys did you have a free reign to ask them a question on here, too. That pops up. Like, I want it to be kind of, kind of that, you know, that Vibe where it's just no different than all of us sitting in a room, you know, chit chat and so. But we kind of went down a few different paths there. I thought that was, that was helpful. And you know, Chad, I think he only got cut off, you know, a couple times. That, that's going to be the biggest, that's gonna be the hardest thing to manage in this style is the overlap of everybody talking. Like, Chad and I have a pretty good cadence. Ken and I have a pretty good cadence of when to go. Tommy as Aaron's the worst at it, so he's gonna be the hardest one for us to die to dial in. He the worst at talking over people, so I want to get him dialed in. But we appreciate you coming on and being the first one. I hate to cut it short, guys, but I know Chad's got to go too. And I want to be respectful of everybody's time. But Jason, you're the first one, man. So I appreciate you being our guinea pig.

[Ken Goodrich]

It's awesome.

[Jason Hansen]

It's good.

[Host (possibly Chris or Chad)]

And to kg Chad, I appreciate you guys and to, to all the listeners, you know, I, I used to, in this podcast a certain way. I'm gonna change it up a little bit too. And it's, it's fun to hear all these things and hear all these ideas and you know, to hear people who've done it, you know, the different ways to think about how you may be able to exit your business or not exit your business and the things that you can do. And what matters to, you know, to Tommy doesn't necessarily have to matter to Jason or to Canada. Chatter. To me, it's what matters to us and what we want to do with it. And no matter what it is, you know, if it's good, if you're going to bring on another trade, you know, if, if you want to stay in it, you want to continue to build. Something that sounded really important to Jason was he had so many people retire, which is a pretty cool thing to have. I, I rhino. I only had a couple of people actually retire, but thankfully one of them was mother. So that was a pretty awesome thing to, to give her. And, and that meant a lot to me. It also meant a lot to me to help, you know, some of these employees give them transaction bonuses along the way because they earned it. And, and I enjoyed all those things. So whatever it is, you know, I hear this way too often, you know, because you guys heard the term, you know, top is, you know, talk is cheap, but, you know, goal without a plan is just, just a dream. And so one of the things I would always say to our employees and I still will say in conversations I used to have on my walls was, you know, you can talk all this stuff, but, you know, don't talk about it. You got to be about it. You can't just talk about it. You actually got to do something with it. And something is better than doing nothing because perfection, you know, will kill progress. I think we all know that. So to the listeners, to our friends also in the VIP room, we'll see you back here next week with us and the new to the Point Home Services VIP room. And to all you on this call with us, Jason, appreciate you being that guinea pig brother. Ken and Chad, we'll see if we can even get this thing dialed in better next time around. So until then, we'll see you.