Cracking the Code: The Blueprint for Platform-Worthy Companies

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Cracking the Code: The Blueprint for Platform-Worthy Companies"

Podcast Information:

• Title: To The Point - Home Services Podcast
• Host/Author: RYNO Strategic Solutions
• Episode: Cracking the Code: The Blueprint for Platform-Worthy Companies
• Release Date: June 17, 2025

Overview: In this episode of "To The Point - Home Services Podcast," hosts Chris and Chad Peterman engage in a compelling conversation with Keegan Hodges, the co-CEO of Best Home Services and a key figure in the garage door business. The discussion delves into Keegan's entrepreneurial journey, highlighting his strategies for business growth, the importance of implementation, mentorship, and the dynamics of acquisitions versus greenfield expansions. Throughout the episode, Keegan shares invaluable insights and personal anecdotes that provide listeners with a blueprint for building platform-worthy companies in the home services industry.

---

1. Keegan Hodges' Entrepreneurial Beginnings (00:00 - 15:06)

The episode kicks off with Keegan sharing his early entrepreneurial spirit, which began with unconventional methods of funding. Faced with limited financial resources, Keegan and his brother took out numerous credit cards offering 24 months of no interest to finance their ventures. Reflecting on this risky move, Keegan humorously admits,

"What do we have to lose?" (00:00).

Despite the potential for financial setbacks, their bold approach laid the foundation for their initial business endeavors. By aggressively marketing through TV, radio, and direct mail, they capitalized on a relatively untapped market, achieving substantial growth in their first few years.

Notable Quote:

"What do we have to lose?" – Keegan Hodges (00:00)

---

2. The Importance of Implementation Over Perfection (15:06 - 29:03)

A central theme of the conversation is the critical role of implementation in business success. Keegan emphasizes that knowing what to do is insufficient without the ability to act on that knowledge. He states:

"The number one thing in my opinion, is implementation. ... You just won't implement." (00:25)

Chris adds to this by highlighting the value of moving quickly and prioritizing progress over perfection:

"You move fast. Like, you move fast. Progress over perfection type stuff." (00:39)

Keegan reinforces this mindset, sharing his mantra:

"Done's better than perfect." (23:44)

He recounts instances from his own business where a "done over perfect" approach led to rapid growth and effective market penetration. For example, by diligently applying marketing strategies without delay, his team was able to establish a strong brand presence before competitors could react.

Notable Quotes:

• "The number one thing in my opinion, is implementation." – Keegan Hodges (00:25)
• "Progress over perfection type stuff." – Chris (00:39)
• "Done's better than perfect." – Keegan Hodges (23:44)

---

3. Transition from Best Home Services to Apex and Garage Door Business (29:03 - 34:46)

Keegan outlines the growth trajectory of Best Home Services, detailing the strategic decisions that led to its expansion and eventual partnership with Alpine Capital to form Apex.

Key Points:

• Early Growth: Starting in 2008, Best Home Services focused on air conditioning, achieving $400,000 in revenue in the first year and doubling it the following year.
• Expansion into Plumbing (2012): Diversifying services contributed significantly to the company's growth.
• Partnership with Alpine Capital (2019): This collaboration facilitated the formation of Apex, marking a pivotal moment in scaling the business.

Keegan also touches upon the shift in marketing dynamics from 2010 to the present, noting the increased accessibility of marketing resources and the importance of leveraging digital platforms.

Notable Quote:

"Things are different today ... it's easier today to know what to do and how to do it. But can you go implement?" – Keegan Hodges (22:02)

---

4. Mentorship and Continuous Learning (35:43 - 40:08)

Keegan discusses the pivotal role mentorship has played in his business journey. He credits mentors like Jamie DiDomenico and others across various regions who provided guidance and strategic insights. Keegan elaborates on his approach to seeking out mentors:

"I just text him out of the blue, and I said, I understand you got a place in Fort Myers Beach. I want to take you golfing." (36:09)

This proactive approach led to valuable relationships that significantly influenced his business strategies and growth.

Notable Quote:

"There's so many people out there willing to help." – Chad Peterman (57:54)

---

5. Acquisition vs. Greenfield Strategy (42:16 - 55:16)

A substantial portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing growth strategies through acquisitions versus building new operations from the ground up (greenfield). Keegan provides a balanced perspective on both approaches:

Greenfield:

• Pros: Total control over branding and operations; no legacy issues from previous owners.
• Cons: Starting from scratch without existing customer base; potential challenges in hiring and establishing market presence.

Acquisition:

• Pros: Immediate revenue and customer base; established operations and reputation.
• Cons: Integrating different business cultures; potential loyalty issues with existing employees and customers.

Keegan advises that the choice between acquisition and greenfield depends largely on a company's resources and strategic goals. When lacking capital, he recommends starting with the greenfield approach, while recognizing that both strategies entail significant challenges and require meticulous execution.

Notable Quotes:

"Neither one of the two are easy. Greenfield's difficult." – Keegan Hodges (42:16)

"The fastest way to grow is acquisition." – Keegan Hodges (42:57)

"Acquisitions are nice. You acquire all that revenue, it's there day one." – Keegan Hodges (42:57)

---

6. Strategies for Successful Acquisitions (47:21 - 55:16)

Keegan delves deeper into his acquisition strategy, particularly focusing on "tuck-in" acquisitions—small, strategic purchases within the same market. He outlines the criteria he uses to evaluate potential acquisitions:

• Business Longevity: Prefer established businesses with a solid history.
• Strong Online Presence: Companies with robust online reputations and positive reviews.
• Operational Fit: Ensuring the acquired company's operations align seamlessly with his own.
• Financial Health: Assessing metrics like average ticket size, conversion rates, and overall profitability, though Keegan notes he often discounts projected revenues to account for uncertainties.

He also discusses the importance of maintaining the acquired company's culture and customer relationships to ensure a smooth transition and sustained growth post-acquisition.

Notable Quotes:

"It's all the same. It's a home service industry." – Keegan Hodges (29:03)

"The smaller deals are buyouts." – Keegan Hodges (54:55)

"You build your team around you and go execute." – Keegan Hodges (30:00)

---

7. Customer-Centric Approach and Team Building (55:16 - 58:37)

Keegan emphasizes the significance of a customer-centric approach, stressing that the ultimate goal is to provide exceptional service that fosters long-term loyalty. He shares practices such as running maintenance programs without aggressive selling, allowing customers to feel valued and respected rather than pressured.

Additionally, Keegan highlights the importance of building a strong, loyal team. By surrounding himself with dedicated employees and fostering a culture of accountability and transparency, he ensures that his businesses operate efficiently and maintain high standards of service.

Notable Quotes:

"Just tell them like it is." – Keegan Hodges (26:35)

"If you're going to start up a new business, you're going to be as good as the team around you." – Keegan Hodges (29:03)

---

8. Conclusion and Key Takeaways (58:37 - End)

As the episode wraps up, both hosts and Keegan reiterate the core messages of the discussion: the paramount importance of implementation, the value of mentorship, and the strategic considerations necessary for business growth through acquisitions or greenfield expansions. They underscore that success in the home services industry hinges on proactive action, continuous learning, and a relentless focus on customer satisfaction.

Final Notable Quote:

"As long as you believe in it, it's a worthwhile dream." – Chad Peterman (58:05)

---

Key Insights and Lessons:

1. Implementation is Crucial: Knowledge without action doesn't lead to success. Businesses must prioritize execution over perfect planning.

2. The Power of Mentorship: Building relationships with experienced mentors can provide invaluable guidance and accelerate business growth.

3. Strategic Growth through Acquisitions: Acquiring existing businesses can provide immediate revenue and market presence but requires careful integration and alignment.

4. Customer-Centric Practices: Focusing on delivering exceptional service without aggressive selling fosters long-term customer loyalty.

5. Building a Strong Team: A dedicated and aligned team is essential for scaling operations and maintaining high service standards.

6. Adaptability and Continuous Learning: The business landscape evolves, and entrepreneurs must continuously adapt and learn to stay ahead.

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for entrepreneurs in the home services industry, offering actionable strategies and inspiring stories that highlight the path to building platform-worthy companies.

Transcript

[Keegan Hodges]

We didn't have any money, but back then you could take out credit cards and they had like 24 months, no interest. So my brother and I were like, well, let's see how many we can take out. How many, how many? How many credit cards will they give us? Idiots. And spent it all. And we're like, all right, well, we're already broke, so I guess if this doesn't work, we'll just be more broke with bad credit. Like, what do we have to lose?

[Chad Peterman]

What would you say are some of those qualities of those people who figure it out?

[Keegan Hodges]

The number one thing in my opinion, is implementation. I see a lot of these guys that are. They know what to do, they know how to do it. You all have seen tons of them, and they just won't implement.

[Chris]

You move fast. Like, you move fast. Progress over perfection type stuff.

[Keegan Hodges]

Done's better than perfect. I think I was too strong in sales. I had friends that reached out or come over for dinner, and so I'm like, hey, you gonna use me for garage doors or whatever? And they're like, yes, but we need to tell you something. If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't have used your company. And so I took that. And our garage door company is much less salesy.

[Chris]

You also, like, you would pick a mentor a year or mentor every other year.

[Keegan Hodges]

So Jamie was just the first one that kind of offered me his time. I'm still so grateful to him for that. This is to the Point a Rhino.

[Chris]

Experience bullet, one of the top home.

[Chad Peterman]

Services, marketing and operations podcasts.

[Chris]

Cutting through the and getting to the point. Hey, what's up to the Point listeners? It's your boy Chris, along with my co host, Mr. Chad Peterman. Which by the way, Chad, I know it's late there. Actually it's late for our guest too. You east guys on east coast time, 4:30. So precursor that there's some potential that a little Blake Peterman could run into the office while Chad is on the podcast since it is later there. You know, she has a soccer two and dad's got to take her. But Chad's still here for us because he doesn't want to miss another episode. Chad, what's up, buddy?

[Chad Peterman]

What's going on, my man? Excited to be here day after Easter. I think it based on our call volumes this morning, I think a number of customers realized that. Oh shoot. I got out my Easter gear. Summer is a coming so because it's only like 65 here, but our phones were just ringing off the hook today, which is A good thing. We'll take it. Whatever the reason may be.

[Chris]

Nice little Easter post Easter gift to the Peterman brothers.

[Chad Peterman]

I like it.

[Chris]

I like it. Well, you know, listen, it's exciting because you and I both have a friend on here today. It's always nice when we have buddies on the podcast. We get to share their stories. And I'll tell you what, now that I think about it on the fly, I'm thinking, would it. Wouldn't Keegan be a great speaker for our. One of our next. At our next Rhino X event? Don't you think he would be a good one to bring on to do. To speak at that event? You can't really say no now because he's sitting on here looking at you. But you would have said yes anyhow, right?

[Chad Peterman]

100.

[Chris]

Yeah, of course. So we gotta talk. We gotta talk him into coming on to. But our buddy Keegan Hodges is on here. And Keegan was the co CEO of Best Home Services, which is some OG down in southwest Florida. Him and brother Chad. Right. Chad, you know, had. This was like Best was the platform for what is now Apex. Is that not correct, Keith?

[Keegan Hodges]

We were the first company in Apex.

[Chris]

That's right, man. And you. That thing is a monster. You still have some. You saw some, some love in that whole deal or what?

[Keegan Hodges]

Just as an LP investor.

[Chris]

Gotcha. Okay, well, now you're in the garage door business too, along with our good friend Tommy. He's got. He's the chairman for Garage Door Partners, which has mo Better. Mo Better Garage Doors. And also I think it's two other brands. I think it is down in the Florida Georgia market with a great team there. Got to know some of them. But Keegan's kind of like been in the game for a little bit. And actually, you know, and Keegana, you and I talked about this before I get too much into your history. The first time you and I met was either back in 14 or 15 at a carrier factory authorized dealer meeting. Like I think it was in Nashville at the Gaylord, I think, and it was at a bar.

[Keegan Hodges]

But only maybe that's why I don't remember that much.

[Chris]

Well, maybe that's why I don't recall.

[Keegan Hodges]

I'm just kidding. I do remember.

[Chris]

Yeah. So a while ago, and that's when I was like, I just started hearing about. That's the first time I actually met you and you won some awards and stuff. And I heard about your business and I was like, damn, who is this guy? And actually I think it was Jamie Didomenico. Who even may have introduced. I can't remember if I introduced it or not, but I know you spent, you know, some time with him, you know, just learning from Jamie. Jamie. He's been on it before. It's been a while. We had to get him back on here. Dude would crush maintenance agreements. Like, he was, like, the king of building those things. But we met quite a while ago, and. And so more recently, you know, we have another good mutual friend, and Tommy Mello and you and your lovely wife, Larisse, you know, and we've become friends, which is awesome, you know, and it's just been one of these deals. I'm like, we got to get you on here so we can tell a little bit of your. Of your story and. And what you took, you've taken away from Best and applied into the garage door business. Like, what was relatable. Just some of the things. So I want our listeners to hear from another OG in the space. I'm calling you an og. Doesn't make you feel old, right?

[Keegan Hodges]

A little bit. I do feel a little old in this industry, but a lot of young guys now, though.

[Chris]

There sure is. But you know what? Speaking of old, you know, I'm a dad, you know, and. And I like to share dad jokes, and they're not just because I feel like. I mean, I'm not old, okay. I'm 45. I'm definitely not Keegan's age, so I'm only 45. He's got me by, what, 10 years? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Keegan's jacked, by the way, if you guys aren't watching and you're listening to this thing. So I'm glad he's in Florida while I talk to his face. Okay? So I have some dad jokes I want to share with you guys, and feel free to laugh if they're not funny. I know. Chadwell. So these are really good. I thought, you know, when I. When I looked through my little calendar here that Berkeley gave me, you know, and I had a lot of, you know, a lot of dates to tear off because I've been traveling frequently, lots of business meetings happening, so I went and found a couple that I thought would just land just right. So, Chad, are you ready?

[Chad Peterman]

Always, I guess.

[Chris]

Okay. And if you know the answer, Keegan, you feel free to just shout it out. I know how much of an extrovert you are, so just. Just shout it out. Okay. First one. Okay. What did the janitor say when he jumped out of the closet. Not that closet. What did the janitor say when he jumped out of the closet? Supplies. You don't think that was good?

[Chad Peterman]

Oh, yeah.

[Keegan Hodges]

Supplies.

[Chris]

Supplies.

[Chad Peterman]

All right, get on to the next two.

[Chris]

Okay. Okay. Did you hear about the ATM that got addicted to money? We all like to talk about money, right? Like, did you hear about the ATM that got addicted to money? Do you know what it suffered from? Withdrawals. Come on. That's pretty good. Is it? Very good. No. Okay, you guys, one more. We're gonna bring it home right here. You ready? Are you ready? I don't know. Are you a Keegan? Are you a dog or a cat person or a. Neither person.

[Keegan Hodges]

Dog.

[Chris]

Okay, me too. Chad? Neither.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah, we don't.

[Chris]

Do.

[Chad Peterman]

We do a lot of. We got a lot of pets at the house. Most of them are stuffed.

[Chris]

I was gonna say. I don't think I've ever noticed any cats or dogs at your place, so. Okay, well, I. I'm a dog person as well. Recently, my. My daughter Fallon did a presentation for me. You know, trying to get me to give her a cat, which I am. Do not want a cat in my house at all. Ever. But she did a nice little deck full on presentation and presented to me on why she should have a cat. So it was so good that I just said, okay, we'll foster. We'll foster a cat. We're two weeks in. Guess what?

[Chad Peterman]

I don't own the cat.

[Chris]

No, I know I don't own a cat. Just reaffirmed that I am not going to have a cat.

[Chad Peterman]

Fallon is not gonna let you not. She is not gonna let you give the cat back.

[Chris]

He's putting the full court press on. But I'm telling you, like right now, no, thank you. Like, I'm willing to take the heat for. It's only. It's going to be short term disappointment. We'll move on.

[Keegan Hodges]

Where's the cat now?

[Chris]

Cat's in her room. That's where it stays.

[Keegan Hodges]

Okay, so it's. It's still there. There's still a chance.

[Chris]

Listen, okay, you guys, the point is, is that I gave in to her, but this is a cat joke.

[Chad Peterman]

I'm gonna ship you some cat toys. No, that's what I need.

[Chris]

You're not doing any of it. Don't give Keegan any ideas too, okay? What do you call a pile of cats? A pile. I know it sounds weird, but what do you call a pile of cats? A meowton. A meowton. Okay, let's get to the good. Thanks for bearing with Me. Chad's gonna use that one for Blake when she comes in here. She'll laugh at my jokes if she comes in.

[Chad Peterman]

Well, I don't know.

[Chris]

Actually, she won't. She won't even pay attention. Okay, let's get into this. Okay. Because, you know, aside from the dad jokes, I know you all enjoy so much. You're welcome. Let's go ahead and get into Keegan's story because like I said, he does have a really interesting background. And I always love when I get to have conversations with, with Keegan around business, especially the ones that I remember. Those are the more fun ones. But we have, we've had, we have a lot of good conversation talk. Anytime he comes out to Arizona and we're hanging out with Tommy, that's pretty much what we always talk about. There's always some business related stuff. But we have a lot of fun doing it. Right. Because we enj it. We all enjoy the business side of things. And you've been incredibly successful in business and you continue to be successful in business. Now, I've noticed some traits about Keegan that I want to be able to bring up and share throughout this podcast that I think that I will say has been applicable towards his success in business overall. But first, first off, Keegan, let's do this. Let's just go ahead and go back to, like when you were just getting into starting best. Like, maybe take our listeners through a little bit of that. Like the come up with best all the way up to your apex deal. And, and then I'll touch a little bit more on the garage door part of it afterwards. Maybe we'll segue right into that afterwards. But let's just talk about the best story real quick.

[Keegan Hodges]

Sure. We, we started well, you know, I started working when I was about 13 in the field. My dad was an electrician. So every summer break, every spring break, you know, I was always working. Love, love working, love working in the field. Once in a while, they'd throw me off job sites and stuff and say, hey, you're too young. Get out of here. You know, call your dad, tell him to come get you. Can't be here. But that was in the early years. And then my brother and I joined my parents in 2008. Great year for, for the country in 2000. Awesome. Yeah.

[Chris]

0809. Great timing.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah. Hopefully we're not seeing that again. So 2008, it was tough. They're an electric company. I think they had about 12 employees and we joined them to start air conditioning. I went to School for air conditioning, got license, all that stuff. We started air conditioning. I think we did close to 400,000 our first year. We were very proud of that. And then the next year, I think we doubled that or whatever. And then we. We eventually, I think in 2010, we bought our parents out of their. Of their business. And then 2012, we brought on plumbing. And then that's probably when it really started to take off. You mentioned a guy a few Minutes ago, Jamie DiDomenico. 2010, he joined Nextar. I was already a Nexstar member. I remember back then they used to send out like these catalogs, I guess we had. We weren't too familiar with the Internet back then, I guess. I don't know. So they had these catalogs and it had every owner's picture. It would say how many trucks you had and your size and all this. And he was huge, you know, in, in Florida. I was like, man, look at this, you know, telling my brother, we gotta. I gotta meet this guy. So called him up and he said, sure, common up. He was in Sarasota, we were down in Naples. He said, come on up. And we went and spent the whole day with him. You know, he didn't even know. He gave us the whole day of his time, and it was just eye opening, you know. And I remember leaving there and we were like, we can do this, we can do this, you know? And then Jamie, Jamie continued helping us. He was really big in our success in those years. 2010 came around. He kind of taught us about how to work. There was this thing they had, a tax credit back then. I don't know if you all remember that. Oh, yeah, I remember tax credit, selling air conditioners. So he taught us how to take advantage of that. And then he taught us about marketing. And so marketing is what really made us take off. I'm sure a lot of listeners know about that. Marketing is a lot more prevalent today than it was back then. Back then, we didn't really have anybody that was doing much marketing in, in our area. And so, you know, we. We learned enough to be dangerous. And we didn't have any money, but back then you could take out credit cards and they had like 24 months, no interest. So my brother and I were like, well, let's see how many we can take out. See how many, how many, how many credit cards will they give us? Idiots. And they gave us quite a few. And we're like, all right, we got 24 months to do this.

[Chris]

Is this your professional advice?

[Keegan Hodges]

And so we did it and spent it all. And we're like, all right, well, we're already broke, so I guess if this doesn't work, we'll just be more broke with bad credit, like, what do we have to lose? So that's kind of how we got started. And we started to market, started doing TV and radio and all kinds of postcards and all kinds of stuff, and it just immediately started working and because no one else was doing it. And so I'd say we had a good three year run of branding, you know, pretty heavily before our competitors started to wake up. And by then it was kind of too late. That's kind of how we took this market down here.

[Chris]

It didn't. It didn't. So I love it. You pulled out, by the way. I don't know that Keegan would give you this advice. We're just. He's just sharing his story. Okay. So don't look too far. He's just sharing his story that he bet on the cards and the no interest, you know, and said, you know, if it doesn't work out, we're just going to be poor and have shitty credit. Not a strategy.

[Keegan Hodges]

Well, still poor, just bad credit.

[Chris]

Well, and then your brother kept the cards, right, didn't he?

[Keegan Hodges]

Because obviously he's got them on his wall still. Yeah, that's awesome.

[Chris]

I love it. So, so real quick, hang on a second, maybe for some perspective, when you guys did that, before you started using the cards on marketing, where were you guys at roughly on like size of business?

[Keegan Hodges]

I would say maybe, I don't know, 20 employees maybe.

[Chris]

Okay. Okay. So then you start marketing, all right. And you're doing some branding and now it's all starting to, to work and you guys are seeing some, some growth happening and, and your bet paid off.

[Keegan Hodges]

Paid off. And then we partnered with carrier. And, you know, back then, I think it was maybe a bigger deal back then than it is today. Just seems like things are different today.

[Chris]

Yeah, they used to give more marketing funds too.

[Keegan Hodges]

You. But it was a big deal. Like you didn't just call up and be like, hey, I'd like to be a carrier dealer. You had to get invited to the table. And it was, it was a big deal. And yeah, the marketing dollars were. Things were a lot different back then. But partnered with carrier, that was a good partnership. And then just started to grow. We always stuck with Nexstar. And then so in fast forward to 2019, we partnered with a private equity group called out Alpine Capital, and then we started Apex.

[Chris]

Okay. So when you Partner with Alpine. What was the size of best at that time?

[Keegan Hodges]

I'd say maybe 300 employees.

[Chris]

Okay, so slightly larger than 20.

[Keegan Hodges]

A little bit.

[Chad Peterman]

I got a question for you because, like, you know, the whole. I think it's interesting, like, if I. If I traced my story, it was running into somebody who gave me a chance and what allowed me to see what was possible. And it sounds like for you, Jamie, was that guy of like, oh, my God, like, this is what's possible. I think we can do it. And I know, you know, just us knowing each other, you've probably talked to a lot of people who, you know, whether they have a similar story or not, they're trying to build something that's bigger than what it is. And obviously there's some that succeed and some that fail. You know, if you're talking to listeners who they're. They're resonating with the story, they're like, yeah, I took out the credit cards. I'm, you know, I'm betting on myself. I'm doing all of this. What would you say, like, talking to people from your seat now, having been, you know, achieved success, done things, whatever it is, when you talk to those people, like, what separates the people from, like, all right, if I got to place a bet on somebody who's going to win versus somebody who's going to probably struggle, what. What are those? Couple of things that, like, you automatically pinpoint from the winners. Like, all right, this guy, he's. He's got it. Like, he's going to figure this out. Like, you know, I gave him some advice. I kind of opened the door, kind of let him see things, but, like, he's going to figure it out. Like, what would you say are some of those qualities of those people who figure it out? Because I think a lot of people find themselves in that situation of, like, God dang, this is hard. Like, I'm trying to figure this out. What am I going to do? But then there's ultimately people that succeed. So what would you say that you've seen over. Over your years of just, like, advising people, being a mentor, whatever it is that, you know, all right, they've got what. What it takes. One thing you'll hear a lot from Bluon users, they've stopped ordering the wrong part. Derek from FH Fear used to trust vendors for parts, only to send his text out with the wrong one, costing time, money, and customer trust. Since bringing on Bluon, their misses have dropped to zero. He even says that if a mistake happens now, it's Usually because someone didn't run it through Bluon, it's become a essential to their parts process. And here at Peterman Brothers, we're definitely seeing that impact too. Click on the link in the description and grab a quick demo. It will be worth it.

[Chris]

In home services, speed to lead is everything. Chirp stands out. By transforming your communication strategy with Chirp, accelerate your lead response time with instant sms, text messaging, email and ringless voicemail automation. Chirp's cutting edge technology ensures you're the first and the most persistent, helping you close more deals than ever. But that's not all. Say goodbye to missed opportunities with Chirp's incredible follow up system. Keep your leads engaged and moving smoothly through your sales funnel without lifting a finger. And with Chirp, deep integrations with top CRMs like Service Titan, Housecall Pro and Jobber, you can launch laser targeted campaigns to connect with the exact right leads at the exact right time. Time automation creates efficiency. Efficiency unlocks scalability. With Chirp, you can automate speed to lead, estimate follow ups, rehash abandoned call follow ups, cancel job follow ups, review requests outbounding to your list, annual reminders, membership expiration follow ups and so much more. So stop chasing leads, capture them, connect faster and close more deals with church. Contact Tripp today and elevate your communication game.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah, I think things are different today, you know, than in, in 2010. I mean, these guys coming up now have so much more at their fingertips between, I mean, there was no podcast back then, you know, all these, all these, you know, groups around the country that you could join and there, I mean there was Nextar and you know, that was probably the best thing. But like what you all do and stuff, your groups, your meetings that you speak at, there was none of that stuff. There's just so much, I mean, and it's very easy today to learn how to market, you know, Google it, figure it out, watch YouTube videos. So today I think it's easier to gain access on what to do and how to do it. And so today I would tell somebody the number one thing in my opinion is implementation. I see a lot of these guys that are, they know what to do, they know how to do it. You all have seen tons of them and they just won't implement. And then, and then the other big thing is, is just, you know, putting, putting things off, like delay gratification. And I, I see today that that's very hard for these, these guys to do that are wanting to come up, they want it all now. And you know, I built my business to 10 million. I just want to sell it now. Like, everybody wants to sell their business. So delay gratification. And if you can't implement, it's so easy today to know what to do and how to do it. But can you go implement?

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think, too, I think what people forget is, like, you know, when you get to sell your business, like, the work's just begun. Like, now you have a boss that's going to dictate success and failure. It's not, hey, you know, yeah, I had a bad month, so we'll. We'll rebound. No, like, you're going to have to answer for that. And they're going to hold you accountable to, you know, moving it forward. And I think, you know, at least in the people that I've talked to, it's the people that are willing to be held accountable for the results. And, like, hey, that didn't go well. You know, I remember in the early years for us, it was, you know, our business, our next. Our business coach, John. Whatever John said, I did. And I knew that I had a call with John in 30 days, and he was going to say, well, did you do it or did you not? And I didn't want to let John down. He was like my dad at the time. You know, I was like, I got to make this guy proud. And so I just did it. Like, sometimes not even knowing what. Not even asking any questions and saying, well, he said to do it, so I might as well do it.

[Keegan Hodges]

That Conway. Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris]

Okay. Yeah. That's one of the things I picked up from you, Keegan, too, is you move fast. Like, you move fast, and. And because I've. I've really only known you. Known you. Let's just say this past year, like, we've really gotten to know each other. But has that been how you've. Like, were you. I mean, it doesn't take skill to move fast, right? Like, it just is taking action. Is that something that you. When, like, even as you and your brother were building, like, building best. Were you like that all the way back then, too? You're just like, hey, let's just go. Let's just move fast. Has that always been part of the strategy?

[Keegan Hodges]

I've always been that way. Like, done's better than perfect.

[Chris]

Yeah. Progress over perfection type stuff.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah, I've seen. I mean, you guys have seen, you know, the people out there that they have to get, you know, their trucks perfect, and the shelving and the bins on it, everything labeled and Then they want to talk about, I want to barcode everything, everything. And like three years later, they're still trying to figure that out.

[Chris]

Yeah, I mean, I love this idea of just going, right, and, and I was just having this debate last week around my jump and then throw the parachute methodology. Let me just add to that. I think you pick a really good, expensive, well thought out parachute that's been built, okay? So I'm jumping with the parachute that I know is going to fucking open, okay. And it's going to get me to the ground softly, right? And I might, maybe I hit a few limbs on the way down, maybe don't jump far enough. But I definitely, you know, I'm adopter of that, of that model. But man, I find out too sometimes when you get, when these things get big, these businesses get big. No, you can't. Like, sometimes you do. It's like everything takes forever to make this decision. Next thing I know, it's 30 days later. And I wanted to make this decision forever ago. And we're still like here. So frustrating, you know, to be able to, to do that. But seems like that's always pretty much been part of your methodology is do it. I mean, Chad just says, oh, John said to do it. I guess we're doing it right. But something else I appreciate about you that I think is, is, is good. And this is where you and Anna are quite a bit alike, is she's pretty straightforward. Like, there's no, like, second guessing on where you stand with her. It's, it's pretty clear, like on where she's at. And, and you kind of have that straightforward, you know, personality too, where you kind of call it as you see it, you know, and, and if you're not refined, that can come across as like, you're an asshole. Right. It could be disruptive to the culture of a business, especially as a leader. But there's a way that you can do it too. I think that actually comes across respectful too. So, I mean, here you are trying to move fast. You're very straightforward and letting people know where they stand. Like, how was that impacting the growth? Like, were people being like, God, Keegan's such an asshole or you like Keegan were like, he's like, no, man, I'm just like, we'll tell him like it is. I just don't want to hear it. Like, did you run into some roadblocks having that kind of a personality?

[Keegan Hodges]

Not really, no. You know, I'm. You're not, you're not doing it out of out of anger. I mean, if you're doing it out of anger, then you know that's wrong. You know, I'm just a believer of let people know where you stand. I mean, there. There's a joke I hear. My CFO once in a while, he'll talk to people that, like, listen, Keegan's not going to give you a scorecard because you're going to know every day what your score is with him.

[Chris]

Well, yeah, it's just accountability. Right. That's all it is. But. But the delivery matters, right? Like the delivery. Of course, you know, because there's like a finesse to that, too. Some people don't know how to do. It's a skill. That's why you have to do. We had on Stillman Michael Cato. Oh, which, by the way, was awesome. Chad, I'm so glad you got to hear that intro with him from Maps Consulting. Yeah, Goodrich's guys on, you know, help you with those leadership skills, those finesse skills. But to me, what I keep hearing from you, Keegan, and which I think anybody listening can take some of these things and apply them to move the businesses. You can move fast and you let people know where they stand, so that way they understand, are we on the right path? Are we not on the right path? And we're not waiting a week to make a correction. We could have done, you know, a week ago. So it's just like, hey, let's just be direct, you know, we're all on the same team here trying to do the same thing, you know, and. And what gets measured gets managed. So, you know, be honest, like, be upfront and, you know, the longer you let it, you know, sit, I think the harder it is to recover from in some instances. So you just kind of got to be direct and move on. Yeah.

[Keegan Hodges]

So, I mean, that's. That's been my philosophy. I mean, not everybody likes me, but. Oh, well.

[Chris]

Now, when you. When you were. So when you. I mean, you were kind of early to the game on with going with Alpine and Apex to, you know, to kind of. You're at the forefront of all this private equity stuff is the things that you learned that you've done, because you've learned quite a bit. And like I said, you know, I, you know, I lean on you because, you know, to me, you've learned so much in this. In this. In the financial world and the M and A world that I was like, Keegan, and I have to ask you for advice because I've only been in a Couple of years now and I'm still learning, but at least I can go to Union. Give me some answers. The are you. Is some of the things that you, I mean, or how easy was it for you to transition from this holy trinity of H vac, plumbing, electrical world, and then applying that over to the garage door business? Like, were there some, like, things that you took over that were relatable with that, that help you scale this? Because now I think you, you're like, I think you might even be one of the largest privately held garage door businesses today. Is that right? Or somewhere up there towards the top, isn't that right?

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah. And there's some big commercial groups out there. Residential, but, yeah, residential, maybe.

[Chris]

So, so what, so what did you bring over? Like, you're just like, hey, all I did was, you know, I did this here with Bess and then with Garage Door Partners, I just did this here. Like, what was that that you just rolled over? That, you know, was the skill that helped you? Because it's a big business.

[Keegan Hodges]

It's, it's all the same. I mean, it's, it's a home service industry. I mean, you have this. The same customers, so the same customers that you were fixing their air conditioner for, now you're fixing their garage. So you already know what customers want, you know, you know how to do it. And then, you know, if you're going to start up a new business, you're going to be as good as the team around you. So, you know, I was, I was fortunate. I was able to pull together a really strong team. Still pulling together, a strong team, but really strong team. Some of them have been with me in the past, some of them weren't. Some of them worked with me and in some way or, you know, or another in the past. But yeah, it's all, I mean, if you're going to try and if you get the opportunity to have a do over in life, it's nice. You know what to do. You know what, not what, not to do. You build your team around you and go execute.

[Chad Peterman]

Keegan, what were some of those things? I guess maybe to kind of expound upon that question, because I think about this a lot, like, and people ask me, like, oh, should I get into this business? Should I not? Like, what were the things when you started, like, you put together, like, all right, I'm going to go into garage doors. What were like, the two or three things that you were like, all right, I majorly screwed this up in the H vac space. Or this was A problem we had to handle way down the road that I wish we would have just nipped it in the bud early on that you like, hey, these are non negotiables. When we start this business, this is how we're going to do it. Maybe not like from a tactical standpoint, but like, overall, this is what the company's going to look like. I'm going to put these two, going to put these two or three things in place to start so that we don't have to fight it down the road.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah. So I'll say this. I don't know if very many people will agree with it. I think I was too strong in sales in H vac and electric and plumbing. By being too strong, I mean, too pushy. I don't, I don't. So after, after I sold the company or partnered with someone, it's a bad word. I had, I had friends that, that reached out or come over for dinner. And so I'm like, hey, you're gonna use me for garage doors or whatever. And they're like, yes, but we need to tell you something. If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't have used your company. Kudos to you. You've trained your people amazing. But every time you come to my house, I'm getting out my checkbook. And, and that's not what we want to see, you know, and it's every time. And, and so I, I took that. And, and our garage door company is, is much less salesy. And to give you an example, on, on a. Maintenance. We run, we run maintenances in garages like you would an air conditioner. I don't allow our maintenance techs to sell. They can renew your maintenance and they can, I think they can change out the rollers in your garage, like from metal to nylon to make it quieter. Better than that. They don't have access to the price book. They can't sell. A perfect day for a customer is, you know, if you've been taking care of their garage door, their air conditioner or whatever is to come out and say, this looks amazing. You've, you've already, you've done like everything we've asked you to do. We've recommended it. I'm giving you an A on this. It's perfect. You don't need to do anything. I'll see you again in six months. Like, that's what a customer wants to hear. And so that's, that's one, you know, thing that I've done in this business. And so just to not I guess not be all about ringing the cash register all the time. Delay gratification. Like I was saying a little bit ago, you don't have to get that today. Delay it. It's going to come in the future.

[Chad Peterman]

I like that. Yeah. I mean, that's very similar. Like mine is on maintenance. Like, here's the deal, like, get a five star review and make sure that that customer ask for you the next time that they have their maintenance. No, no, no, I want to wait on Johnny. I don't care if he's booked out two weeks and that's when you can squeeze me in. Like to me, for a maintenance guy like that is, you know, go in, do your job, get a five star review and make sure that customer is like to your point is like, dude, you gotta call these guys. Like I love and, and not only call these guys, ask for Johnny because he's awesome. And again, we know behind the scenes, like maintenance is, you know, anybody could we. I got plenty of guys who could perform that. But like, if you make that connection with that customer, we're gonna have them for life and they'll spend money over the course of their time with us.

[Keegan Hodges]

Right? Yeah. I mean, another thing I'm doing this would be, you know, if you're thinking about, you know, partnering with private equity, they're a lot smarter than they were five, six years ago. Private equity has learned a lot in the home service industry. And if you, if you built a business where you have literally just squeezed every drop out of that lemon, private equity is much smarter. They know that you've squeezed every drop out of that lemon now. So they're going to do market studies on you. They're going to look and see what your market share is. And if, if you're in one market and you own, you know, a giant percentage of that market, there's no upside for them. So that's, that's another thing that I'm mindful of is, is just build a business that this thing just for the Next, you know, 20 years, the customers will just keep coming. You know, you don't have to get all the revenue now. And that's what private equity wants.

[Chris]

So I do want to in part this conversation talk about acquisition versus Greenfield, but I want to get to that. I want to take a step back real quick because part of this, of your journey too, and these things that you've learned and we've kind of talked about mentors a little bit, is if I remember, if I heard this right, then I'm gonna Then I'll. Okay, if I, if I didn't hear this right, I'm sure you'll let me know. But I thought part of, of your learning process too is like we're talking about Jamie D. Is you also like you would pick a mentor, a mentor a year or mentor every other year or something like that that you would learn some stuff from. Or maybe it was using the same mentor year or maybe you were suggesting for everyone to get a mentor year. I was listening to Tommy's podcast that you guys did a while ago. Is that a. I mean, was that something that you actually like, you would try to find someone new to learn from a year? Or is this a suggestion that you're giving is like, hey, like, you know, mix. Like you were able to lean on Jamie D. You know, to help with, with things because he was like the behemoth, you know.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah, sure. So Jamie was just the first one that kind of offered me his time. I'm still so grateful to him for that. But after Jamie, there was, there was another guy. He was a one hour guy, he was out in Arizona. I worked with him for about a year and then I outgrew, you know, him. And then, then there was this guy up in Indianapolis.

[Chris]

Was there somebody up in Indianapolis that you knew?

[Keegan Hodges]

I can get to that. Then there was a guy up in New Jersey and he was putting out all over Facebook what he was doing up there. And I'm like, okay, I gotta reach out to this guy. So I reach out to this guy and he's, he's bigger than Jamie D. Domenico. And he was, it was. What's the name of his company up in Jersey?

[Chad Peterman]

Mike Gold Medal.

[Keegan Hodges]

Gold Medal.

[Chris]

A Gugliaro Agliaro, Whatever the hell.

[Keegan Hodges]

And Rob Zadati.

[Chris]

Zadati, that's it.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah. So I reach out to them and I go visit them and we agree upon. I'm. I'm gonna pay them so much money per month and, and they're gonna mentor me. And so we, we do that. And there's this other guy, winters up in Boston. Oh yeah, I can't remember his name anymore.

[Chris]

He's a part, they're a part of Legacy service.

[Keegan Hodges]

He was Nextar and he's with Private equity now. Bill, what's that?

[Chris]

Bill? Bill? I don't know.

[Keegan Hodges]

I can't remember. But anyway, so it was, it was me and, and him and my brother and so they, they mentored us. And then, and then Mike started this group called CEO Warrior. CEO Warriors. So I, I stayed with Mike and Rob for probably two years, and then he turned it into a business, you know, when it started out with just us, and I was like, well, you know, time for me to move on. I mean, they taught us a ton, you know, A ton. And then. Then I reached out to Jamie D. Domenico, and I said, hey, you know, one of your. One of your partners is. Partner. Ken Haynes is partners with a guy named Joe Huck up in Indy. I want to meet Joe. And I said, what does he like to do? And they said, well, he golfs. And I said, okay, give me his phone number. So I just text him out of the blue, and I said, I understand you got a place in Fort Myers Beach. I want to take you golfing. You don't know me, but I want to take you golfing. And eventually I got to take him golfing. So then I made a deal with him, and we actually became very close friends. And I worked with him for about two years until I got too big. And his partners were threatened by us, and so they said, you can't help them anymore.

[Chris]

Joe loves his Tommy Bahama. You could just got him a extra tall, long Tommy Bahama shirt. And he loved it.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah, he loves golf, too. And then after that, kind of running out of people to be mentored by. And so we found. We got invited. Trying to remember who called it. I think Jonathan Bancroft with Morris Jenkins called call me one day and said, hey, we've got this group called the Families Group. We'd like to invite you to join it. And so we joined this group called the Families Group that was at one point it was like Horizon Services, Morris Jenkins, service champions north and South Milestone in Dallas.

[Chris]

It's a hell of a group.

[Keegan Hodges]

Ruder hero. I mean, we were like, the biggest in the country, you know, and those are. Those are all. You know, they're all. You guys have them at your event, speaking and stuff. All those guys. So that was a great group. Glad to be a part of that one.

[Chris]

Yeah. So. So you. So the answer is, yeah, you like to go and learn, you know, from different mentors along the way. I mean, we've got. We talk about this all the time. Jones, Chad and I do, about reaching out to people and asking, especially because there's so many more options today and so many people are willing to. To help. And it's so easy to get in touch with anybody today. Pretty much.

[Keegan Hodges]

Much easier.

[Chris]

So. So let's do this. Let's transition just a little bit. And then Chad. I know. I'm sure. I'm guessing Blake's probably close to being.

[Chad Peterman]

There or maybe probably about five. She, we may, she may missed her her for she's always asking about when she gets to do another, another commercial. She was in one of the commercials and that's like her big thing. I'm like, honey, we'll let you know. All right? But no, I'm all good.

[Chris]

Okay. Well, I do want to make this transition though into, you know, acquisition versus green stills greenfield strategy. You know, Chad and I have had these conversations. Chad's done been through both of these two of Peterman Brothers and, and you know what, what is if you, if you had to pick one, you had to pick one, which one would be your, your strategy and why? What's up? To the point listeners, if you're working with the marketing agency to drive traffic, what happens when a customer lands on your website? Contractor Commerce helps top contractors like Summit Heating who generated over $500,000 in new install revenue using instant estimates for H vac systems, water heaters and generators right on their website. And companies like my boy chatty peas, Peterman Brothers are building recurring revenue with a touch free filter delivery program powered by contractor Commerce. Rhino brings the leads. Contractor Commerce helps you close them. It's a good one, two punch. Visit contractor commerce.com to start E Commerce today. Sorry for the interruption to the point listeners, have you heard of Rilla? Are you using Rilla yet? If not, are you fora see what I did there? Rilla is the leading speech analytics software for the trades. It is on a mission to bring physical ride alongs to an end. You can coach your reps with virtual ride alongs now that are a hundred times better, faster and much more efficient than the physical ones. All you got to do is use the Killa. Rilla, that's R I L L A Rilla.

[Keegan Hodges]

I mean that, that's just hard to answer. You know, it depends on what your resources are. Right? I mean, do you, do you have, do you have the capability to put together the money to buy an acquisition, you know, and then can you execute once you buy one?

[Chris]

Well, so, so just walk me through it.

[Keegan Hodges]

Okay, let's say that you're, you don't have money to go buy companies. Right? So then, then my answer is Greenfield. Right.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Keegan Hodges]

Greenfield is, is extremely difficult. Neither one of the two are easy. Greenfield's difficult. There's pluses and minuses.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Keegan Hodges]

What's that said?

[Chris]

Hard for different reasons.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yes, hard for different reasons. You know, you're starting in, in some other market from scratch. Nobody knows you. You know, hiring people, you're going to get everyone else's leftovers that they fired and didn't want, you know, or they have, you know, their, their problems. There's a reason why they're not employed, you know, and that's, that's who you're getting because nobody, nobody knows you, you know, so now you've got the bottom of the barrel for your technicians and your installers and your employees. And that's, you know, that's how you're going to war with that army. So that's, that's tough. Positives, though, is you get to start with whatever brand you want to call it. There. There's no, you know, confusion in the market with that, and it's just a clean start. Acquisitions are nice. You acquire all that revenue, it's there day one. It lives on the balance sheet, you know, so it's not on your P and L. Great for ebitda, you know, very difficult, though. You're buying some other owner's way of doing business, maybe radically different than yours. You're buying employees that were loyal to someone else, and now you're asking them to be loyal to you. That doesn't always work out. And you're asking their customers to be loyal to you when they were loyal to someone else. That doesn't always work out. The fastest way to grow is acquisition. So I can't really answer the question. Like, they both have their pluses and minuses.

[Chris]

Yeah, I mean, the reason I asked that question is like, you know, if I think I'm a contractor who is wanting to. Who doesn't have the money or, you know, doesn't have the capital to go and do an acquisition, but wants to open up another market. Well, they've got a playbook, feel comfortable with their playbook, and they want to maintain the same brand. Like Chad's done with Peterman Brothers, you know, just started to go into these other little pocket markets, you know, you can, you can. It's, it's easier in that, easier in that way to do it. But you're right, you're going in with now zero brand equity. Right. But you're also going in with your own playbook. So hopefully you have, you know, you've at least thought through a good marketing strategy, right, to start keeping people busy up there.

[Keegan Hodges]

I mean, it is a little easier nowadays on the greenfield side because you can be whoever you want to be online. Right? So you can go out there and you can find, go to India and find. Buy a bunch of fake reviews and tell Everybody. You're the largest company in town and, you know, you can be everybody you want to be.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah. My advice has always just been your current market. If you're, if you're running a strategy where you're looking for growth, your current market's a hell of a lot bigger than you think it is. And just keep doing the thing, things that you're doing in your current market, unless you've reached scale or you have a, you know, strategy of acquisition similar to what you guys are doing in the garage door space to where, yeah, it makes sense to me. People are looking for growth in kind of the shiny object syndrome, where, like, hey, man, like, what market are you in? How big are you? We're doing 5 million here. Well, you could probably do 30, so maybe just focus in that same market, right?

[Keegan Hodges]

I, I do. I mean, I see today. I don't know why. I know why. It's because of podcasts and stuff like this. People are so eager to expand that they just want to expand into new markets before they've even, you know, squeezed all of the juice out of the lemon in their own market.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah. Yeah, I did it. Yeah, living proof. Yeah, I've done it. But now we're going, so we got to figure it out, right?

[Keegan Hodges]

I mean, Chris, I, I started the garage doors with acquisitions because I didn't know what the hell I was doing in garage doors. I, I had spent enough time around Tommy to be dangerous, and so I, I had to get started some way. So I, I started through acquisitions, and now I'll, I'll do a little tuck in acquisition in about 30 days, but I'm not entering any, any new markets right now. I'll, I'll do acquisitions within my market that I'm, that I'm already in or markets other than that, we're just growing by organic.

[Chris]

Yeah, you have, you have. And like, you talked about doing little tuck ins. Like, what is it that you're looking for in these little tuck ins? Are these just, like, people? How are you finding them first off? But then what are you, like, what are you looking for in these guys that say, okay, cool, this is one that I want? Because, like, you kind of talk about it like, it's just, hey, I'm just trying to bring this in and like, oh, we need more leads. Perfect. I'm gonna go buy this company over here and take over their GMVs and like, we're gonna go to work like, what? It's got to be more than that. They're like, what do you, what Are you, what are you looking at? Like when you say, yep, that's a good tuck in, right Jeremy?

[Keegan Hodges]

So usually they fall in your lap. I mean I, I have two guys that, that dial for dollars pretty much. But they, I mean you could say, hey, I want these companies. It never works out that way. You know, they wind up telling you like, okay, hey, this guy's interested in conversation, you know, and the little deals are, I mean they're harder than the big deals to get done. You have to hold, you have to hold their attorney's hands for them and everything. Not, not fun. But. So I, I look for companies that have been in business, you know, quite a while, have a, have a strong gmb, lots of reviews, strong presence online and then you know, I'll call their vendors and stuff and you know, see how their reputation is with the vendors and just looking for something that you know it is a tuck in or that can be folded in that and not have big much disruption when that, when that happens, you know, like literally like the day of the transaction, you know, the phone numbers are turning over the website and it's, it should be seamless.

[Chad Peterman]

What are those, what are those kind of key areas that you look for? Like I know that, you know, like as an example I'm looking and not all the time can you get the data. But you know, booking rates, conversion rates, average tickets, different stuff like that, that, you know, that okay, if I pay X, I can immediately double the size of this thing. Are you looking for, is there, is there any of that in the, I assume there is in the garage door space?

[Keegan Hodges]

There is, but I, I mean I discount a lot of the revenue. Like so let's just say they're doing a million dollars in sales. You know, life doesn't always work out how you think it's gonna. So I might say, you know what, I'm, I'm gonna discount this down or I'm gonna do 600,000 in sales, you know, out of it. But yes, you're looking at average tickets and stuff and, and you know, usually our prices are higher than there's ours conversions and all that. It's great if they have a CRM or it's great if they have like call tracking software. So you can, but I've bought, you know, great tuck ins where they have nothing. And I've asked the owner, I said okay, for the next 45 days I want you to pencil and paper, tally mark how many phone calls you get in with the dates on them and I will get tally marks. Like 1, 2, 3, 4, with a cross through it, like, for each day. And I've. I've bought businesses that way.

[Chad Peterman]

Got to do what you got to do.

[Chris]

That's great. I guess that. I was gonna say Excel spreadsheets, but you went up me with the tally marks.

[Chad Peterman]

Oh, I bought it. I bought a business one time, and I'll never forget, I went into this guy's. I went into this guy's office, sat down with him, and I was like, you know, like, I get it. You're not tracking all this stuff. He's like, let me show you something. So we go back in this, like, back room, and he's got. If everybody remembers the old service call, like, it was like a sheet, and it was this. I'm really dating myself. It was like, yellow. It had like a carbon copy of it.

[Keegan Hodges]

Oh, yeah.

[Chad Peterman]

And like, you'd. You'd have the service call sheets. And he had a. Literally, I kid you not, a board that was just in this wall. And there had to have been 50 of these sheets. Just. Just push pinned on this thing. And I go, what, Paul, tell me, tell me a little bit about this. What. What's going on here? What are these? Oh, these are all the people that called, and they're just waiting on us to tell them that we can come out and get it. I go, sold. That's all the CRM I need. It was posted notes on a damn board. But I was like, holy. I get a. I get all. I go, start pulling those off. Let's. Let's start calling these customers.

[Chris]

Right now here.

[Chad Peterman]

And he's like, the work's already sold. We just got to go do it. I'm like, gee, many Christmas. All right, let's do this.

[Keegan Hodges]

There's a whole nother side to this, though. I mean, you. You have to. The biggest thing is with. With these tuck ins is they're usually too small. They're not going to attract private equity. They're not going to really have a buyer. And, and, you know, they're looking for, you know, a way out of the business to either go pursue some other passion or retirement. And if you're able to provide that, that at the end of the day, that's. That's what they need. That's a solution they needed. So you're looking for people that, you know, need that solution. And if you can be that good solution, then you can get a deal done.

[Chris]

You're gonna win some, you're gonna lose some.

[Keegan Hodges]

You win very few. I mean, you look at a Whole bunch. And you do very few.

[Chris]

I meant more of like the. Some of the deals that you actually got done, like, maybe. Yeah, I. I don't know. I. You know, one thing I'll be interested to talk about, and we're not gonna be able accomplished on this one, is the seller financing model. Yeah, the. Well, it's easy. Yeah. Here it is. It's way easier if you don't have money. If you can do seller financing. Well, I guess. Well, for the sake of. Of time for Chad, I won't hit on that one, but we for sure should do an episode on seller. On seller financing. I think that could be an interesting one to talk about. Have you guys ever heard of Cody Sanchez? You ever heard of her before? She kind of like, does some speaking and stuff like that. No. She wrote a book called Millionaire Mindset. Okay, whatever. No, but you're looking at me like I'm a idiot, but. Because I said I read a book. I know that's why you're looking at me like that, kind of.

[Keegan Hodges]

No, you don't read. I'm sure you just listen.

[Chris]

I didn't actually read the book at all. You're right. I did listen to it, though. That's correct. But it was enough to where I was just trying to learn, like, some different seller financing models. It's interesting. Like, it is interesting how you can approach deals that way, you know, but. But a lot of it was around kind of like what you're talking about, Keegan, is it's mostly around these deals that are too small for private equity to look at, you know, so. And. And it's like there's this set of criteria you look for, like, you know, you don't want to. You don't want a new business. You want a tenured business, you know, one that's kind of been stagnant growth and like somebody that's either maybe looking to get out of a relationship that they're in with their partnership, or they're just looking to retire. So it's like metrics, you know, like these little scorecard that adds up says, yeah, this is a good acquisition, you know, that you could do and roll some seller financing through. So it was interesting, you know, to. To learn about it. But I think I was asking. I think I was texting you at the same time I was reading that book. If I think about it now, I.

[Keegan Hodges]

Think about it, okay. And in the garage door space, there is a ton of opportunity for these little deals. The garage doors, they're. They're just not as big as AC and plumbing companies. And there's tons of opportunities, but a lot of these owners, they don't, they don't really know what those opportunities are. So a lot of them think that they're stuck, you know, and I gotta, I can never get out of this. I'm stuck. But there are guys like me out there that would love to talk to.

[Chris]

Them and are you just buying them straight up? Are you having to give them any sort of like equity incentives type stuff or any like, you know, phantom stock or anything like that to get these deals done? Are they straight buyouts and they move on?

[Keegan Hodges]

The smaller deals are buyouts. I mean, for someone to, to stay in and become a partner with me, they can't want to retire, right? You know, they've got to be ready to go and build something and, and, but yeah, I mean, I've. I've got several partners that have stayed on board and, and they're, they're working today with me.

[Chris]

Just keep stacking the ebitda.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Well, listen, I don't have anything else, man. I always love talking to you, man. We blew through a 55 minutes or whatever. Hell, it's been real quick, so 50 minutes on the, on this episode, but. And I appreciate you hopping off with us. I knew it would take. It was a little bit of a pain in the ass to get locked down, but we did it on a Monday, which is. Okay, we got you on here. You're good to go. Now, I know you still have to walk clear home because.

[Keegan Hodges]

Yeah, I gotta walk home from here, man. I got, I got a 30 minute walk.

[Chris]

Doesn't drive now.

[Keegan Hodges]

I had to sell my car.

[Chris]

Times are real tough.

[Chad Peterman]

Don't let Keegan fool you. He's got a nice golf cart down there. I rode it from his office to his house.

[Chris]

Is that what that thing's called? A golf cart? Wait, what's the other thing that you.

[Chad Peterman]

I mean, it was fancy, but it was a golf cart to a certain extent.

[Keegan Hodges]

Right.

[Chris]

Well, Keegan, I appreciate coming on here, man, and Sharon, like. And I'm serious, man. We got to get you out to, to the next Rhino X as a speaker. I'm gonna talk you into that.

[Keegan Hodges]

Maybe you can talk me and come see me at the lake. Maybe we'll talk about it.

[Chris]

All right, we'll talk about it there and then we'll. We'll lock it down at the lake. That's what we're doing. I'd love to go up there. I love hanging out up in Idaho.

[Keegan Hodges]

All right.

[Chris]

I appreciate you, dude. Chad, you got anything else, man?

[Chad Peterman]

I don't appreciate you coming on. As always, I know we've gotten to know each other here over the last couple of years. I'm extremely grateful for and your advice and everything like that. And I think, you know, for me, the biggest takeaway and I was. I was glad you shared your story is like, hey, there's so many people out there willing to help. There's so many lessons learned that you may not have to learn the hard way if you just ask and put yourself out there to, you know, I think the story about you and Joe Huck, that's. That's fantastic. And obviously, being in Indianapolis, I know Joe, and hell, I know most of his family, it seems, because south side's always connected. But no, I just appreciate you sharing that. And, you know, I think listeners can take a lot away of, like, hey, you know, while. While you have, you know, a number of successes to, you know, look back upon. It all started the same exact way as everybody else's story. It all started of, you know, two brothers with a dream, and we're going to figure this thing out and we're going to bet on ourselves and we're going to make something happen. So I think that that is always a good reminder to everybody that regardless of where you are, you know, if you have the. If you have the vision and the willingness to work your ass off, you can make anything happen for sure.

[Chris]

That sounds like a great. A great way to end the podcast chat. Well done.

[Keegan Hodges]

Sounds good.

[Chad Peterman]

So I'm here for. It's Monday. I'm fresh, ready to roll.

[Chris]

So what I heard from all that was take out a bunch of credit cards, put all your money.

[Chad Peterman]

That was not the advice. The advice was you do whatever you have to do so long as you believe in the dream, and if you believe in it, you can figure out a way to make it happen. You know, some people have to take out credit cards. Others are just going to have to work their ass off and figure it out and go after it. But, you know, as long as you believe in it, it's a worthwhile dream.

[Chris]

There we go, listeners. I don't have to say anything else, Chad. Just close it out for us all nice like. And you know what he said?

[Keegan Hodges]

Button.

[Chris]

No, you didn't hit the stop button just yet.

[Keegan Hodges]

Don't worry.

[Chris]

Hey, you mind your own business over there, Keegan, okay? Mind your own damn business. Okay. All right, listeners, we're going to get out of here before Keegan starts to take over again. You don't got to do everything, but you got to do something. Keegan, what does my shirt say?

[Keegan Hodges]

No zero days.

[Chris]

No zero days.