Former Mob Boss Michael Franzese & Ken Goodrich Interview at RYNOx 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Former Mob Boss Michael Franzese & Ken Goodrich Interview at RYNOx 2025

Podcast Information:

• Title: To The Point - Home Services Podcast
• Host/Author: RYNO Strategic Solutions
• Episode: Former Mob Boss Michael Franzese & Ken Goodrich Interview at RYNOx 2025
• Release Date: August 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of To The Point - Home Services Podcast, hosted by RYNO Strategic Solutions, listeners are introduced to Michael Franzese, a former mob boss with a remarkable story of rise, fall, and redemption. Co-host Terry delves deep into Michael's past in the Mafia, his business ventures, legal battles, and eventual departure from the life of crime. The conversation offers invaluable insights not only into the inner workings of organized crime but also into effective business strategies and personal transformation.

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Michael's Early Life and Mafia Background

Michael Franzese begins by sharing his early life and the influence of his father, who was a high-ranking member of the Colombo family.

• Michael (01:23): "My dad was the underboss of the family, second in command... originally he didn't want this life for me. He wanted me to go to school, be a doctor... get an education."

Michael recounts his transition from a pre-med student at Hofstra University to entering the Mafia following his father's lengthy prison sentence.

• Michael (01:55): "My dad was convicted and got the longest sentence ever for a bank robbery conspiracy... I was 19 when that happened, and I decided I wasn't going to follow the path my father wanted for me."

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Entering the Gasoline Business

Terry probes into Michael's entry into the gasoline business, a significant venture that would later become a cornerstone of his operational success.

• Michael (16:38): "It was kind of by accident... we built that into selling half a billion gallons of gas a month, taking down 20 to 40 cents a gallon because that was the tax at that time."

Michael explains how he and his partners exploited tax loopholes to amass substantial profits, showcasing his business acumen within the Mafia's framework.

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Business Strategies and Operations

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Michael's business strategies, particularly distinguishing between "racketeers" (earnings-focused members) and "gangsters" (those struggling to contribute meaningfully).

• Michael (10:22): "Out of the 115 made guys, I would say 20 of us were really earners and bringing money into the family."

He emphasizes the importance of quality over quantity within Mafia families, aligning with Terry's observation about the ratio of earners to workers in legitimate businesses.

• Michael (25:00): "My motto is always do what you do best and delegate the rest. Motivate the people you hire and get the most out of them."

Michael shares anecdotes about managing partnerships and maintaining control, ensuring that only reliable and earners are involved in lucrative operations.

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Legal Troubles and Arrest

The conversation takes a tense turn as Michael discusses his legal battles, including multiple arrests and his eventual plea deal.

• Michael (40:42): "We were bringing in eight, nine, $10 million a week... I had my own jet plane, a helicopter, three homes."

Despite his significant earnings, Michael faced relentless legal pressure. He details his plea agreement and the challenges surrounding the restitution and forfeitures.

• Michael (39:14): "I ended up giving him that 33 million. The story gets better... they actually were ready to throw him out of the Witness Protection program."

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Leaving the Mafia: Consequences and Redemption

A profound segment of the interview focuses on Michael's decision to leave the Mafia, the ensuing personal and familial repercussions, and his path to redemption.

• Michael (43:02): "I'm not here in any way to glorify my former life. The life is evil because I don't know any family of any made member that hasn't been totally devastated."

He candidly shares the devastating impact his former life had on his family, including the imprisonment of his father and the loss of several siblings to addiction and instability.

• Michael (49:53): "I became a Christian during my time in prison... I read my Bible and I decided Christianity was real."

Michael's transformation is marked by his conversion to Christianity and his dedication to speaking about his experiences to help others avoid the pitfalls of the Mafia lifestyle.

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Key Insights and Lessons

Throughout the interview, Michael imparts several key lessons derived from his experiences:

1. Opportunity Recognition and Delegation:

   • Michael (25:00): "I was able to recognize a good opportunity, hire the right people, and get them to work for me."

2. Effective Negotiation and People Management:

   • Michael (33:32): "You have to master certain skills. Everything is a negotiation, everything."

3. Importance of Planning:

   • Terry (29:21): "Failing to plan is planning to fail."
   • Michael (29:26): Agrees and elaborates on the necessity of having well-thought-out business plans.

4. Redemption and Personal Change:

   • Michael's journey underscores the possibility of personal transformation and the significance of breaking away from destructive lifestyles.

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Conclusion

This episode of To The Point - Home Services Podcast offers a rare glimpse into the life of a former mob boss who successfully transitioned into legitimate business and personal redemption. Michael Franzese's candid revelations about his past, business strategies, and the dire consequences of the Mafia lifestyle provide listeners with both cautionary tales and valuable business insights. His story serves as a powerful testament to the possibility of change and the importance of making ethical choices.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael (10:22): "Out of the 115 made guys, I would say 20 of us were really earners and bringing money into the family."
• Michael (25:00): "My motto is always do what you do best and delegate the rest."
• Michael (43:02): "The life is evil because I don't know any family of any made member that hasn't been totally devastated."
• Michael (49:53): "I became a Christian during my time in prison."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the interview, highlighting Michael Franzese's intriguing journey from the Mafia to personal redemption, and offers listeners both engaging storytelling and practical business lessons.

Transcript

[Host]

Welcome to to the Point Home Services, the podcast where real contractors share real strategies. We cut through the noise and get straight to the point with the contractors that are working in the field right now. If you run a home services business and want to lead, better, grow faster and stay sharp, you're in the right place. Now, before we get started, I need you to do one thing. Only 30% of our listeners are following the show. So stop what you're doing, hit follow, and let's get to the point.

[Terry]

This is to the Point a Rhino experience voted one of the top home services, marketing and operations podcasts.

[Michael Franzese]

Cutting through the bullshit and getting to the Point.

[Host]

Rhino X. Let's go ahead and give a nice Warm welcome to Mr. Michael Franzese.

[Michael Franzese]

Everybody having a good time? All right.

[Terry]

So on this video, thank you for coming and I've spent a lot of time listening to the podcast and everything I could find on the web. You've got an incredible interesting story. I appreciate you being here. I did notice though that when I was researching that your father was in the same business.

[Michael Franzese]

I guess you can call it that. Right.

[Terry]

And did you work with your father when you were a kid?

[Michael Franzese]

Well, no, actually. My dad was the underboss of the family, second in command, the Colombo family. And originally he didn't want this life for me. He wanted me to go to school, be a doctor, stay off the street, get an education. And I was on that road. I was actually a pre med student at Hofstra University in Long island when my dad drew a 50 year prison sentence. And it was life changing for me at that point.

[Terry]

So I'm going to do a little left turn because I got this question. First of all, I believe that you're an authentic, you were an authentic member of the Mafia. I believe that. Now my question. So I'm from Las Vegas, native Las Vegas. And so Las Vegas gets a lot of fruits and nuts that come in and out of Vegas from time to time. And so in business you run across people, especially the New Yorkers. Seems to me that a lot of New Yorkers come and they like to put on airs or infer that they too are mobsters in some way. Here's a particular story. I had some rental properties in Vegas and when the medical marijuana thing law passed, I happened to have the right buildings for that. So I had, I don't know, seven or eight tenants like this. We had a Russian guy from Brighton beach and he comes in and every negotiation he had, he wanted to throw out his inferences that he was connected. He was a mobster. He was this. And blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I don't know, I let it go on for a few days. And then finally I said, look, here's the way I see it. If you're in mob. If you're in the mob, you ain't talking about being in the mob. So please stop that nonsense. Let's get down the business. If you don't want the space, don't take the space, move on. Now, did I handle it right? Are there people that are in the mob that want to infer there in the mob, or is that a rule? That is you don't talk.

[Michael Franzese]

Well, let me say this. I mean, first of all, you know the Russians from Brighton Beach. I had three Russian partners when I was in the gas business. And quite honestly, they were the best partners I ever had on the street. They were honorable, they were reliable, they worked like crazy, made a lot of money with them. But, you know, New York is kind of the stronghold of that life in America. And a lot of guys that come from the neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens and around that they're around guys. So they try to put on the air that they're about something or they have connections. One of the things I hated the most in my life, when somebody said to me, do you know who I am? Immediately, when you hear something like that, it's a turnover. Guys in our life are not supposed to advertise who we are. You know, the way you carry yourself, the way you handle yourself, that's enough. But look, there's all kinds of guys out there. You know, there's guys that, you know, they wear it on their sleeve and they want everybody to know who they are. And that's normally problematic. You know, you don't do that. So, yeah, it's quite possible that somebody was trying to put an air on. But what does that mean? Are you going to do business with them? Is something going to happen? Even better. What are they trying to relay to you? What does it mean? So it's really silly when people do that. You know, there's no reason to do that, you know. But is it possible that they might have some kind of connection? Yeah, but if they were Russian, they certainly weren't made guys. You can't be made unless your father is Italian. So if they're Russian, they might have been connected in some way. Maybe they had a relationship. But bottom line, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Terry]

Okay.

[Michael Franzese]

It's a long way of saying that.

[Terry]

That's what I thought. Well, thank you it's been a burning question. I can go to sleep at night. Okay, so let's. Can you kind of give us the origin story here? You know, your rise to running the, you know, one of the most profitable enterprises of all times, really, in that world, kind of just give us the high points?

[Michael Franzese]

Yeah, well, you know, like I said, I was a pre med student, and my dad, who was an extremely high profile figure, he was kind of like the John Gotti of his day. He was always under investigation. My dad, during my lifetime, was tried, went to trial three times on state cases. Twice for grand larceny, once for murder. He constantly had law enforcement around him from the time I was five or six years old. Law enforcement tactics back then were very different than they are today. Terry's very covert undercover informants, high tech surveillance equipment. Today you can be under investigation. Not really know about it until it's too late. Back in my day, when you were under investigation, they wanted you to know about it. And for a period of about 10, 12 years, when I was a kid growing up Brooklyn, later on Long island, my dad's under investigation from seven or eight different agencies. And they all had a car parked around our house 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Whenever we would leave as a family, I was one of seven kids. We had a parade of law enforcement vehicles following us. So I grew up hating the government, hated police, hated law enforcement, because I loved my dad. And I always saw them as harassing him. You know, he's in and out of jail, he's going on trial, a lot of stuff, so. But my dad kept me out of it. Go to school, son. You don't need this life. He tried to keep me in the right direction, but then he goes to trial for allegedly masterminding a nationwide string of bankruptcy. It was his first federal case. He gets convicted and gets the longest sentence ever for a bank robbery conspiracy case. At that point, 50 years. So he goes into prison, he's 50 years old. I'm 19. I said, dad, you know, you're never gonna come out alive. So, long story short, Joe Colombo, who was the boss of our family, he kind of took me under his wing. I was very close to the family. I started meeting a lot more of my dad's friends, talking to me differently. Mike, if you don't help your father out, he's gonna die in prison. So I'm very influenced by that. I go to see my dad in Leavenworth, and, you know, I had a conversation with him. I said, dad, bank robbery it doesn't sound right. My father looked me in the eye and he said, son, I'm no bank robber. I was framed on this case. And we got to help prove my innocence. And I'll tell you this. I went to jail for a crime that I was guilty of, pled guilty, did my time. And my dad did a lot of bad things in his life, you know, no question about that. But that particular crime that he did all that time for, my dad was innocent of, and I'll take that to my grave, investigated that case. We spoke to every witness that testified against him, recanted their testimony. We gave them lie detector tests, proved they lied at the trial, but we can never get the conviction overturned. So when he told me that, I said, well, dad, I'm not going to school anymore. If I don't help you out, you're going to die in here. We had a long conversation. He was upset about it. We went back and forth. But I was pretty headstrong kid and he knew my mind was made up. And he said, okay, son, but if you're going to be on the street, I need you on the street. The right way, in his mind, the right way was to become a member of his life. So it was at that point in time that he proposed me for membership. Because you can't just go up to somebody and say, I'd like to join. What do I have to do? Somebody has to propose you, vouch for you, say you have what it takes. In my case, it was my dad, and that's how the process started for me. I was 20 years old when he did that. And. And the process begins.

[Terry]

So I grabbed a question here. So the process of being recommended, they have to vouch for you, your ability to be able to handle the job.

[Michael Franzese]

Yes. And there's a lot of nepotism in that life. A lot of fathers bring their sons in or their, you know, nephews, cousins, whatever. Obviously, for security reasons, they feel if you're part of the family, you're never going to betray the oath that you take and all of that.

[Terry]

And what, you know, in the video you talked about not. Unfortunately, many of the. Many of the guys were not earners.

[Michael Franzese]

So what were earners?

[Terry]

Yes, in the video it said earners. But so what was the percentage of earners to. What would you call the other side?

[Michael Franzese]

Well, in New York, we had. There are really nine recognized mafia. I hate to use the word mafia for some reason. I don't know why. It's cousin. Austria in this country means this thing of ours, there are nine families that are recognized. And the way you get recognized is by having a voice on the commission. And in New York, which is the stronghold of that life, we have five families in New York. And our family, I was part of the Colombo family and we had 115 made guys, guys that actually took the oath. Out of the 115, I would say 20 of us were really earners and bringing money into the family. So you kind of had a division. You had the racketeers, which were the guys that were earning and bringing money in, and then you had the gangsters which were trying to scrape out a living whole who's got a gambling operation, who's got a no show job, whatever. And that's kind of the division. And the gangsters, for some reason they just didn't know how to use that life to benefit them. So they couldn't become racketeers, at least most of them. But if you're a racketeer, you have to be both because you're gonna get called upon to do things that you have to do. So that was kind of the division. And we wanted the smaller families, the Genovese and the Gambino families, they each had about 225, 20250 guys. And I used to ask my boss, I said, how come? He said, well, we like quality over quantity. I don't know about that. But anyway, that was his excuse.

[Terry]

You know, it's interesting because I think our ratio is about the same. Earners to workers, right? It's about the same.

[Michael Franzese]

Well, we didn't mean to disparage anybody at that point.

[Terry]

Okay, so you have your conversation with your dad and you know, you're going to live the life. Tell us about how you got into the gasoline business and this billion dollar business.

[Michael Franzese]

Well, cut to. I go, you know, two and a half years as a recruit, proving myself, you know, worthy to become a member. And then On Halloween night, 1975 is when myself and five other gentlemen, we took the oath and became sworn, made members of the.

[Terry]

Let me jump. Is Halloween like a normal time or just happened to be that?

[Michael Franzese]

No, it just happened to be a secure night. Everybody's trick or treating and we were doing our thing because, you know, you want it to be secure. So make sure nobody's following us. We always had a lot of heat. So I was 24 years old at that point. And then I started my journey in that life. And you know, I have to say I was fortunate. I knew how to use the life to benefit me in business. And I was very aggressive, very determined. I had two goals coming into that life. One, get my father out of prison. I did get him out after 10 years. Unfortunately, he kept going back on parole violations. So my dad ended up doing a total of 40 years on that 50. He was in and out five times. Each time he got violated it was for association with other felons and just couldn't keep him out. So he ended up doing 40 years. And then I started just seeing how I can use that life to benefit me and got into a couple of different things, brought some new things into the family. I also had legitimate business. I mean, I had two car agencies, I had a big production company in California. I had a leasing company. So I was kind of entrepreneurous in that way.

[Terry]

And you didn't have to kick anything on your personal businesses to the if.

[Michael Franzese]

You have legitimate business that you yourself put together, you don't kick anything back.

[Terry]

Okay.

[Michael Franzese]

But anything on the street, you're obligated to give back to the family. And you kind of work out that formula. The formula that I had with my dad, anything that was on the street, I'd give the family 25%. And that worked.

[Terry]

Even the billion dollar deal? Even the gas deal?

[Michael Franzese]

Yes.

[Terry]

Wow. Good job. Okay, so. So you're out earning. You got, you got maid on Halloween, you got earning. And then how'd you find this gasoline thing?

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[Michael Franzese]

Well, it was kind of by accident, honestly. There was a guy that in the gas business and he had a small operation out in Suffolk county and he came to me for help because some people were trying to extort him, some guys from another family were trying to extort him. I was kind of the guy on Long Island. So he came to me and he asked me for help and he told me what was going on. And initially I didn't want to bother with him because I had heard that he had testified in a case, a civil case against the governor at that time, the governor's brother, you, Carey. So when you kind of hear that, you say, maybe this is not somebody I should be involved with. And I kept turning him down, but he was very persistent. And then he came to me one day and he said, listen, I have a way to defraud the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline, but I need your help. And so he got my attention. I don't like the government, right? I said, well, explain it to me. And so he kind of gives me this germ of an idea and I said, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to take a shot with this. So I got rid of the two guys that were bothering him. I mean, I made them go away. I don't want, I didn't get rid of them, but I made them leave and, and we went into business. So I, we opened up a company. I said, look, I don't want to be involved in your company. I don't know if you owe taxes or whatever. So let's start something new. We start a new company and we get a different office. And so I have a guy around me who is a butcher. Big guy, big scar across his head. He was kind of a forbidding looking guy. So I said, Vinnie, his name was Vinnie. I said, vinnie, I'm going to put you with Larry. I want you to watch him. The guy's name was Larry. And Larry, by the way, was 6 foot 4, £450, big guy, right? So I said, I'm gonna put you with him. Let's see if he's really got something here. So I lived out in Long island back then, and about two weeks later, Vinnie knocks on my door on a Saturday morning. Now, he used to bring me meat on a Saturday. He was a butcher. So he comes in and he's got a. A box on his shoulder. And I said, what, are we having a party here? I said, I don't know about. What are we doing with all this meat? He says, hey, boss, it ain't me coming to the kitchen. So we go in the kitchen, he puts it down on the table, and he said, this is the first two weeks take in the gas business. And it was $320,000. So he got my attention, really, and make a very long story short, and certainly we can go into it, but over the course of the next eight years, we built that into. We were selling half a billion gallons of gas a month, taking down 20 to 40 cents a gallon because that was the tax at that time. It was 9 cents federal and then about 30 cents state, local and all that other stuff. So about $0.40. And we gave whatever the market would bear, $0.20, $0.30, whatever it would be. So I ended up having either about 300 gas stations I either controlled or owned at that time. And then I had 18 Panamanian companies that were licensed to collect the tax on the gasoline because we were wholesalers. And we built it up into. We were bringing in eight, nine, $10 million a week. @ one point, yeah, you saved my life. That means a lot. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you.

[Terry]

So you. You ran gas stations?

[Michael Franzese]

We had a number of gas stations, yes.

[Terry]

And then. And did you. Were you wholesaling the gas too?

[Michael Franzese]

What happened at the time? You know, it was funny, at one point in time, the FBI had went to. We were buying gas from all the major oil companies. We were buying barges that came over. We buy it whatever way we can get it. And at one point in time, the FBI had went to Shell Oil, I had bought a terminal from British Petroleum. And so they went there and they were telling, you know, you're dealing with the mob and all of that. And they said, okay, well, watch out for it. But they didn't care because we were buying the gas for them. We were actually selling it back to some of their own stations. Because we did go into a gas station and say, how much you paying for a gallon of gas? And they said, well, a dollar. Well, how would you like to pay 90 cents? Well, 10 cents a gallon is a Lot. So he says, sure. I said, well, how many loads are you getting from mobile? Let's say it was mobile. He said, we're getting six a week. I said, well, buy four from them, buy two from us. We'll bring it to you in the middle of the night. Nobody will know the difference. Before you know it, they're trying to buy all of it from us. We wouldn't let that happen. Right? But. So even though the major oil companies knew what we were doing, we were buying it from them, selling back to their station. They weren't losing anything. We were actually increasing business. So they told the FBI, yeah, we're going to watch out for it. And then it was business as usual.

[Terry]

So how did you defer that? How did you not pay the tax? How'd you get away with that?

[Michael Franzese]

Well, it was a pretty sophisticated scheme that we had. So I can't lay it all out because I don't. In case I ever decide to go back, I don't want to competition. But you know how many people have come to me and say, michael, you don't have to do anything. We'll do everything. Just tell us how we do it. And I said, yeah, until you get in trouble, then it's me. But it was a pretty sophisticated scheme, but we realized that we can hold the government off for about 10 months. And it was really a daisy chain. We had 18 different companies. So after the 10th, 11th month, they would come down to the office and we would just close up, move to another side part of town. We'd close that license and open another one and just start all over again. And they. They really couldn't keep up with us. They had no idea what we were doing.

[Terry]

Wow, interesting. So did. Did you. Did you have any even perspective of how much money would be in this thing? I mean, the $350,000 was a nice indicator, but it's not 10 million a week.

[Michael Franzese]

I had a vision as to how far we can go. It was all about getting the licenses and people, I'll be honest with you, I had, you know, a politician that got us the licenses. We were paying him in New York. And I said, I can keep this going as long as I can keep the licenses going. And nothing happens that, you know, somebody becomes an informant or something like that. So we ran it for almost eight years. And what happened in the end? My partner, who originally came to me with the deal, he got himself in trouble on an unrelated matter, and he became the informant. And since he created the scheme along with me, that was The. That was the downfall.

[Terry]

So let's get back to the. The, you know, the ratio of earners versus. What was the word you use? Not earners.

[Michael Franzese]

Would you call it racketeers?

[Terry]

Racketeers versus gangsters. Okay. And we have a similar condition. So did you build your business with gangsters? Were racketeers a combination, or did you go after only racketeers like me personally, I like racketeers as opposed to gangsters.

[Michael Franzese]

Well, I kept the gangsters out of the business. You know, I had my own crew of guys and people that I engaged and, you know, they were workers. You know, look, you know, I found out something in business that has really worked for me. A lot of people have said that I'm a brilliant businessman because I had a lot of things going. And I'm the first one to say I'm not. Not a brilliant businessman because there's many things I don't like to do and I won't do well. I just don't do it right. So my motto is always do what you do best and delegate the rest. And then motivate the people that you hire and get the most out of them. And, you know, if somebody says, michael, what's your secret to success? I would say it would be two things. Number one, I was able to recognize a good opportunity because a lot of things come across your plate when you're in action in that life. I was able to recognize a good opportunity, hire the right people, and get them to work for me. And that's it. Until this very moment. That's my secret. I have a lot of young guys around me that are on my team. I couldn't even begin to do what they do. Social media and all this marketing stuff, digital marketing. I can't even think about it. It's too complex for me. But I got the best people around me working very hard, and that's why we've been able to build what I've built now.

[Terry]

So. Interesting. So. So they're not working out of fear. Sounds like they weren't working out of fear. Like if they don't do it, you know, they're going to sleep with the fishes or whatever. But.

[Michael Franzese]

I mean, that's. That's inferred, you know, it's implied, you know.

[Terry]

So would you still have to motivate them and, you know, create a culture inside the business to get them to produce or.

[Michael Franzese]

Absolutely. You know, I'll tell you a story. When I got with the Russians, they had a. They had a place called Gas Stop. Was their brand and they had a couple of stations in Brooklyn, and they got in touch with me because they were trying to collect money off an account and they couldn't collect it. So we got together and we collected the money for them. And then I said, I want to go into partners with you guys. You want to do what I'm doing, but you can't get licensed and you don't understand how, right? I said, so let's cut a deal. Okay? There was three of them. So the one guy, he's passed on now, I can tell you, his name was Mike Markowitz. I said, mike, here's the deal. You're going to buy off of my licenses, and we're going to split it 75% me, 25% you. So he looked at me, he says, Mr. Michael. Call me Mr. Michael. He said, I don't think that's fair. I said, no, that's very fair. He said, why? I speak. We are on the street. You're going to steal from me a little bit. I said, don't let me catch you. But you're going to do it. I know that. At least I can sleep at night saying, I got the upper hand. I got 75%. So he looked at me and he kind of shook his head, and he went back and spoke to his other two partners. And he come back and he shook my hand. He says, you got a deal. So, you know, and that's the way the street works sometimes, you know. And what I said, and I'll give you an example. I knew that they were making money on the side, but they were bringing me money every single week. It was a criminal enterprise. Basically, we're taking money from the government. So what am I going to complain if the making a few bucks more? You got to know how to handle people. And I'll tell you the difference. I go away to jail in 1985 and the way it works on the street, I had to turn that operation over to the family. And I told my Russians, we got along great. They were great guys. And I told them, I said, listen, this is how this goes. You're going to have to deal with somebody else now. No, Mr. Michael, we only deal with you. I said, I'm going to jail. You have to deal with them. Well, we don't want to. No, you don't understand. You have to. There's no okay. And I told my guys, you know, I don't want to mention their names. And I said, look, and this was my boss. I said, these are. These are men. They're not pushovers. You got to treat them like men, and you'll get plenty. And don't worry if they're taking a little bit on the side, it's okay. They're going to bring you money every week. Well, within three months, they blew the whole operation because they really tried to bully these guys. They didn't accept it, and the whole thing blew up. So, you know, it's also knowing how to manage people, knowing how to treat people. I mean, that's what's worked for me. I mean, I don't have all the answers, but, you know, everybody has their way of doing business. You said something inside. I don't even think you realize it, that, you know, you did and your daughter did, which anytime anybody came to me with a business proposition, I said, well, show me your plan. Guy wants to open a restaurant. Well, I'm going to open up a restaurant. Okay, what's your plan? Well, I'm going to sell good food. Well, that's what we expect. But what's your plan? Didn't have one. I tell everybody, make a written plan, write it down, go over it, make it the best possible version of what it can be, and then follow it. Now, obviously, sometimes things happen in a marketplace and things change, but at least you have a direction that you're going in. Well thought out from day one. And so many people don't do that. And until this moment when I get involved in something and now it's a lot less than what I did before, I try to really come up with a plan. And you said you did that. Turned out successful. Your daughter did that at a young age. Turned out successful. I think it's. It's paramount in business that you do that.

[Terry]

Yeah, I agree. I always say failing to plan is planning to fail.

[Michael Franzese]

Yeah.

[Terry]

So. So let's get back to the racketeers a second. Great, great lines, by the way. So how do you. So how do you choose? How do you. How is it you identify the talented racketeers? The most talented ones that work best with you? How did you get that?

[D]

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[Terry]

Done.

[Host]

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[Michael Franzese]

Well, this is going to sound crazy, but when you're a made guy and you're part of that life, you don't really want to deal with other made guys. You don't want to, you want to have your own crew, do your own thing because it's very difficult to deal with another guy that's your equal. I'll give you an example. You know, everything in our life was resolved by a sit down. You know, you had a business proposition, sit down. God forbid somebody got in trouble, you trying to help him out, save him, sit down. We had rules at the sit down. They're actually very effective. Two made guys sitting down, one guy could be lying through his teeth. If I call that guy a liar, I automatically lose the argument because you can't be disrespectful. So you have to learn how to get your point across without bullying somebody or being disrespectful and trying to win an argument. Then you got to deal with the politics of that situation. Is this guy better connected to the boss than I am? There's a lot you have to deal with. So you learn how in those situations how to handle yourself. It's very good. If you can't negotiate in that life, you can't get ahead. You can't be a racketeer if you don't know how to negotiate because everything is a negotiation, everything. So you have to master certain skills. You know John Gotti, I'm sure everybody knows who John is. We were friends, great guy to be around, having a drink, a lot of fun. But if you had to deal with him In a business, he was an absolute nightmare because he could never lose. He was very narcissistic in that way. He wasn't really a business guy. So if you're sitting down and you have an issue, and I had three issues with him, you have to figure out how to win the argument, but walk out of there letting him think he won the argument. And you gotta, you gotta master those things because guys in the street are very hard to deal with. Very, very hard to deal with. And so I don't know what my point was in all of this, but, you know, so you don't want to deal with them if you don't have to. You rather get guys that you don't have to deal with any of that. The guys you can control, you know, and just do your business properly.

[Terry]

So as a racketeer have to be a made man or as a racket, could a racketeer be a not made man?

[Michael Franzese]

Well, you had associates that were business minded people that you dealt with. I had a lot of those. But in that life, yeah, if you're a made guy and you're in the category of racketeer and you don't wear a name label, they just, you know, you are who you are, then yes, you have to be a made guy. And like I said, it's difficult to navigate with those guys.

[Terry]

We got a few, we got a few in our businesses. Okay, so let's open up for some questions. Do we have some questions? We have a mic and all that stuff.

[Michael Franzese]

Yeah. And I want to relax. You can ask me anything that you want. I've been asked everything under the sun. You won't offend me. And if I don't want to answer, I know how to take the fifth. I've done that many times in my life.

[Terry]

So, yeah, how about Kevin over there?

[Michael Franzese]

I want to tell you two things happened with Trump. Trump, his attorney was Roy Cohen. Everybody knows who Roy is. And Roy had tried to represent me on a big case that I had, but he was actually looking to swindle me because he said he can. He said he was able to squash an indictment that was out against me and if I gave him 250 grand, he would do that. So I said, roy, I'll tell you what, I'll give you 500,000, I'll put it in escrow. I said, it'll cost me a lot more if I have to defend myself. Take it all. He said, michael, we don't work that way. I say, I know you don't. I said, you take the 250, and then something will happen. And you couldn't do it. But anyway, he also represented Trump. So I met Trump with Roy on one occasion, and it was nothing spectacular. We were in a private club. I went to meet Roy. Trump happened to be there. Cut to my partner, my Russian partner and I bought two condos in Trump Towers right after it was built, and we paid a couple of million bucks in cash. Well, during the Mueller investigation, the FBI came to me and wanted to know about this situation. I said, that happened in 1982 or 1983. And I said, wait a second, because my partner was Russian and his brother, I think, was a kgba. Are you trying to make the Russian connection going back 40 years ago? And they actually were. And I said, I'll tell you what, I want to tell the whole story. Bring me in front of the Mueller investigation. I want to testify there. Well, when they see me so willing to do that, they said, no, it's okay. We'll take a pass on it, but that's how far they stretch. But, no, I mean, I don't really know Donald personally. I know a lot of the people around him pretty well. I just sat down with Roger Stone and Vivek, and Larry Trump is going to be on my podcast next week, I believe, so I'm circling the wagons to get to him. You know what I mean? Here's something I applied. I found out that he's now allowing podcasters to be in his. His media room. So I applied, and I'm trying to sneak my way up there through some connections that I have. I want to be in that room. Trust me. We'll see what happens. Yes, well, I didn't have financial statements in that regard, but you want to work for me. You know, look, and I mean, my indictment was. They accused me of defrauding the government out of $2 billion. It wasn't $2 billion. It was a lot of money. But, you know, we were bringing into our operation eight, $10 million a week. And I was. Look, I had my own jet plane. I had a helicopter. I had three homes. But I also had legitimate business, so I was actually paying tax at that time, too, because you can't just use that money. And they're not going to be all over you, especially, you know, I don't know if you. But I had. I was arrested 18 times. I had seven indictments. Two federal racketeering cases, one brought on by Giuliani, and I had a state racketeering case. I went to trial five times. I was acquitted or dismissed in every case, but so I had constant heat on me. Try to be careful how I did things. But, you know, look, I mean, I had a lot of money. I don't know how else to say it, but I'll tell you a couple of things. When I pled guilty on this whole gasoline racketeering case, I had $15 million restitution, 14.7 million, and 5 million in forfeitures, which I paid. But I had 33 million. My partner and I, the fellow that became an informant, we had $33 million in a bank in Austria, and it was a numbered account. He had half the number. I had half the number just watching each other. And he had initially testified against me in a big case that Giuliani prosecuted me on, and I was acquitted in that case. When that happened, the government was very upset with him, was ready to throw him out of the witness Protection program. He had never told him about the 33 million because I said, don't tell him about the money. I'll fight you, but that's all money. Don't tell him. Well, after they were ready to throw him out of the Witness Protection program, he said, wait, I didn't tell you something. I'm going to tell you now. And he gives him the $33 million. He gives him his half, right? So the FBI goes to Austria and says, this is Mafia money. We have half of the number. Give it to us. And Austria says, I don't care what money it is. You bring me the full account and you're not getting it. They didn't care was the FBI or anything else. So when I was negotiating my plea, they originally wanted to give me $150 million fine and 25 year sentence. And so my lawyer said, you, you're never going to get this money. He's already given it up. Give up your half and I'll negotiate the deal all the way down. So I ended up giving him that 33 million. The story gets better. You got to wait. And we worked my sentence down from 25 years to 10, which was really all I was concerned about. It was the amount of time and the 15 and 5 million and forfeitures. So I give it to them. Now I get my plea agreement, and I'm looking in the plea agreement, and I tell my Lawyer, where's the 33 million? It's not in the plea agreement. So now I said to my lawyer, I said, why are you so willing to give up this? Are you in on this? Did you take some of this money. And he. No, no, no, no, no. And he didn't. But, you know, you got it on the street, you don't trust anybody. So anyway, long story short, that $33 million disappeared. Didn't appear in my plea agreement. They never spoke about it again. Nothing disappeared. Now, if you're paying attention to some of the things that are going on today, with money going everywhere, it's not, I don't know who got the money. I know I didn't at the time. Fortunately, we had other money in other places that they didn't know about it. But. But that 33 million, Don, or do.

[Terry]

You keep a billion dollars in cash?

[Michael Franzese]

I didn't have a billion dollars in cash. You know, we had a lot of cash because what happened initially we were getting paid in cash, but then when the law changed and they made the wholesaler responsible for the money rather than the gas station, then we did a lot of wire transfers. It was a lot of. A lot of both.

[Host]

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[Terry]

All right. This gentleman, the black shirt right here. You. Yeah. You had a question, I saw.

[Michael Franzese]

Well, first of all, let me tell you, I really appreciate that question because I was hoping we got to that, because, look, I'm not here in any way to glorify my former life. I'm also not here to knock any of the guys. You know, I walked away from that life, and I'll explain why. And mainly because it's an evil lifestyle. Now, I want to be clear on this. I'm not calling the guys evil. I was one of them. I just happened to be very blessed to be away from it. But the life is evil because I don't know any family of any maid member of that life that hasn't been totally devastated, including my own. Now, not my wife and kids, I've been able to preserve that. But My dad did 33 years in prison. I'm sorry. My dad did 40 years in prison. My dad was released from prison and at the age of 100. He was the oldest inmate in the system at the time of his release in 2017. My dad passed away at the age of 103 during a pandemic. He was the oldest living made man in America, for sure. Quite possibly in the world. That's not a lifestyle conducive to a long life. So my mother passed away in 2012, 33 years without her husband at the time of her death. I can only describe her relationship with my dad as being ugly. But she blamed him for everything that went wrong, and rightfully so. What went wrong? My sister, 27 years old, dies of an overdose of drugs. My brother, 25 years, a drug addict. I can't even begin to tell you what he put the family through, what he put me through personally, just trying to keep him alive. He was always in trouble. My youngest sister, the age of 40, she dies. She was never mentally stable. My whole family was wiped out. The only one that survived. So I met a young girl. I was producing a movie out in South Florida. This girl was one of my dancers. It was a dance movie. And long story short, I fell in love with her. She was 20 years old, right? So I said, am I going to marry this girl? I got a major bullseye on my back. Every year they're indicting me on something else. I'm going to marry her, bring her into this life and go to jail forever or maybe get killed. Because we had three wars in our family during my time. A lot of guys got killed. So I said, why am I going to do this? It's either her or the life. And I chose her. So it's not that easy. But I took the plea in a way to break away from that life. I could have went to trial again. I beat him one time, maybe I beat him. That would be number six. Who knows? So I said, let me try to cut my losses. Marry this girl. I'll do some time in prison. She'll be okay. We'll have money. I get out of prison, I'll move out of New York. I'll have parole and probation. I can't be in touch with anybody because that's a violation. Maybe after 10 or 12 years, they'll forget about me. That was my plan. It didn't work out that way because when it became very public, Life magazine wrote a big story. I was walking away. My boss, who was very close with me, took it. Very personal contract on my life. My father practically disowned me. I had a lot of trouble. I ended up doing eight years in prison, 29 months and seven days in solitary. And you know, I can't go through it all because I know we have a time limit here today. But that was the reason I left the Life. And I'll tell you how significant it is. And yes, I became a Christian during my time in prison. My wife was a very strong woman of faith. My mother in law, strong woman of faith. Yes, they had a big impact on me. But it was really during my time in solitary that I came to the Lord because I had nothing but time on my hands. And you know, I read my Bible and I read books on every other faith. And I decided Christianity was real. That's how it worked for me. So I had a lot of trouble the night that I got made. Halloween night, 1975, six of us walked into the room. I'm the only one alive today. The other five were all murdered. We had a war in our family at one point. Fortune Magazine, 1986. Huge article. 50 biggest and most wealthiest mob bosses in the country. It was half the magazine. They featured six of us. I was one of the six. And they actually had a chart with the 50 of us on there according to rank and wealth and power. I was number 18 on the list, the youngest guy on the list. And don't ask me how they make a list. It was stupid. They didn't ask for our tax returns. It just sold a lot of magazines. It was ridiculous, but it sold a lot of magazines. But here's what's not ridiculous about that chart. Out of that list of 50 some 30 odd years later, 48 of those men are dead. Number 49 is doing life in prison. And I'm the only one alive and free. So to say that I've been blessed or fortunate to walk away from a bad lifestyle and then been able to, over the past 25 years, speak all over the world and influence other people to do the same has been a blessing. And I think that's been my calling in life. So I like when we get to that part, because I don't ever want to feel that I'm glorifying the life. Look, people ask me, michael, do you miss the life? At times I do. I had a lot of good friends there. We had a lot of good times. And you know, guys, you'll understand this. There's nothing stronger in life other than a marriage. When guys get together in a brotherhood, like, I got your back, you got mine, it's very. It's just very powerful. And that's what you're told when you get into that life. And to a large degree, it happens. But of course, like anything else, it's corrupted and on the street. Corruption has severe consequences. So a lot of things happen bad in that life. I've seen a lot of things go down the wrong way that still wouldn't have made me leave the life, because I took an oath. And I felt horrible betraying my oath because I was so much a product of the life. But eventually it broke free and I was able to do what I did. So, you know, am I the same person? Listen, I'm gonna be honest with you. I have no moral issue whatsoever in stealing money from the government. And if I can do it again and get away with it, I would do it. I'm gonna be honest with you, bottom line, because I think I'll do better with the money, especially now, than they will. Okay? But I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna get myself in trouble. I'm not gonna put my wife through, you know, another eight years of her waiting for me while I was in prison. What my kids went through, the whole bit. But Marley, I don't have an issue with that. You know, you can take the boy out of Brooklyn, you can't immediately take Brooklyn out of the boy. So do I get flashbacks at times? Yes. But, you know, at least I can resist at this point for the most part. But look, you know, what can I say? I mean, I've been extremely fortunate. I'm going to be 74 years old this year, and, you know, I have no complaints in my life whatsoever.

[Terry]

What an incredible story of redemption.

[Michael Franzese]

Thank you.

[Terry]

Incredible story. Appreciate it, everybody. Michael Francis, thank you.

[Michael Franzese]

Well, thank you very much, I think. Do we have a meet and greet later?

[Host]

Yeah. So, yeah, we're gonna do a meet and greet with Michael right after Terry's done, so they'll both be doing them at the same time right out front. So I'll guide all you guys right after this. He's gonna stick around so he can meet everybody.

[Michael Franzese]

Yeah. Thank you all very much. Appreciate it. Thanks, Michael.

[Host]

Welcome to to the Point Home Services, the podcast where real contractors share real strategies. We cut through the noise and get straight to the point with the contractors that are working in the field right now. If you run a home services business and want to lead, better grow faster and stay sharp, you're in the right place. Now, before we get started, I need you to do one thing or only 30% of our listeners are following the show. So stop what you're doing, hit follow, and let's get to the point.