From 3 Vans to $50M in 5 Years – How to Hit the Ground Running and Grow Fast

Summary

Podcast Summary: "From 3 Vans to $50M in 5 Years – How to Hit the Ground Running and Grow Fast"

Podcast Information:

• Title: To The Point - Home Services Podcast
• Host/Author: RYNO Strategic Solutions
• Episode: From 3 Vans to $50M in 5 Years – How to Hit the Ground Running and Grow Fast
• Release Date: May 20, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of To The Point - Home Services Podcast, host Chris and co-host Chad Peterman engage in an insightful conversation with Sammy Corporations, the dynamic leader behind Apex Pro—a rapidly growing home services company in Ohio. Starting with just three vans, Sammy has scaled Apex Pro to an impressive fleet of approximately 135 vans, generating nearly $50 million in revenue within five years. This episode delves into the strategies, challenges, and philosophies that fueled such remarkable growth.

Business Growth Journey

Launching Apex Pro: Sammy recounts the inception of Apex Pro, highlighting the initial months of establishing the business during the challenging period of the COVID-19 pandemic.

• Sammy: "Apex Pro was officially created in December 2020, but we truly started operations with our first three vans in March 2021." (00:08)

Despite the pandemic's impact on the retail and service industries, Sammy leveraged this period to pivot from his previous venture in the telecom sector to the trades, specifically plumbing, which proved to be resilient and scalable.

Rapid Expansion: Within a year, Sammy expanded the fleet to 135 vans, a testament to the aggressive and strategic growth approach.

• Chris: "Dude, it's been incredible, like so fast." (00:22)
• Sammy: "We're probably 135 vans right now on the road." (00:18)

Recruitment and Culture

Hands-On Recruitment: Sammy personally recruited and hired the first 110 employees, emphasizing a culture centered around technicians.

• Sammy: "I recruited and hired and interviewed our first 110 employees myself." (00:25)

He prioritizes creating a "happy go lucky" business environment, rejecting the use of hefty signing bonuses common in the industry.

• Sammy: "You'll never see Apex advertisement with a signing bonus. [...] We are really a tech-centric business." (00:56)

Building a Strong Culture: Maintaining a positive workplace culture has been pivotal. Sammy hosts weekly technician meetings every Tuesday, fostering direct communication and a sense of community within the company.

• Sammy: "I host every single one of our technician meetings every single Tuesday." (22:42)

Marketing Strategies

Aggressive Marketing Investment: Sammy believes in substantial marketing investments as an essential driver for rapid growth. Early on, Apex Pro allocated 15-20% of revenue to marketing, a strategy met with skepticism by others in the industry.

• Sammy: "Early on we were spending 15 and 20% and people were telling me I'm crazy." (31:13)

He underscores the importance of viewing marketing expenditures not as costs but as investments that propel the business forward.

• Sammy: "When you change your mindset to properly look at things as it's not an expense but an investment, you unlock real business." (34:37)

Strategic Partnerships and Branding: Investing in high-visibility marketing channels, Sammy secured partnerships with professional sports teams like the Columbus Blue Jackets, enhancing brand recognition and credibility.

• Sammy: "We did a huge deal with the Columbus Blue Jackets [...] It's like, go big or go home." (32:30)

Community Involvement

Alex Cares Initiative: Apex Pro's commitment to the community is epitomized by the "Alex Cares" program, named after their mascot. This initiative focuses on helping those in need, such as providing hot water systems to underserved families.

• Sammy: "We created something called Alex Cares [...] we just take care of that." (36:21)
• Sammy: "Our first year we did a turkey drive [...] passing out free turkeys to people." (38:57)

Authentic Giving Back: Sammy emphasizes genuine community service over promotional gestures, ensuring that their efforts stem from a place of empathy and personal experience.

• Sammy: "I grew up in the inner city [...] you like to give back to the less fortunate because you've been there." (38:16)

Leadership and Management

Hands-On Leadership Style: Sammy remains deeply involved in the daily operations, often being the face of the company for employees. His approachable leadership fosters loyalty and a strong sense of belonging among the staff.

• Sammy: "I'm the guy out there on the barbecue grill [...] I walk around this building and I know everyone's name." (22:42)

Promoting From Within: Apex Pro prioritizes internal promotions, ensuring that managers and leaders have a deep understanding of the company's values and operations.

• Sammy: "My management team [...] started as plumbers or sales guys [...] I like to promote from within." (57:30)

Regular Leadership Meetings: Weekly leadership meetings every Tuesday facilitate open communication, problem-solving, and collaborative decision-making.

• Sammy: "We have a leadership meeting every single week on Tuesday [...] it's an open meeting." (54:56)

Lessons Learned

Adaptability and Execution: Sammy highlights the importance of adaptability, especially during unforeseen challenges like the pandemic. His ability to pivot from telecom to plumbing showcases resilience and strategic thinking.

• Sammy: "What makes Apex different [...] it's really a tech-centric business that make sure that we're focusing on that front line." (22:42)
• Sammy: "An idea is only as good as its execution." (51:11)

Focus on People: A recurring theme is the emphasis on taking care of employees. Sammy believes that happy employees lead to a thriving business.

• Sammy: "I like taking care of people [...] create a good work atmosphere that people can love coming to work." (23:35)

Investment Over Expense: Reframing marketing and operational costs as investments rather than expenses has been crucial for Apex Pro's growth trajectory.

• Sammy: "It's really an investment. I'm going to explode in the next six months or 12 months." (34:37)

Future Plans

Continued Expansion: While Sammy enjoys the rapid growth, he remains pragmatic about future expansions, focusing on sustainable scaling rather than chasing arbitrary numbers.

• Sammy: "I'm going to get ready to expand to that market [Dayton], but outside of that, I just enjoy the moment." (63:02)

Balanced Growth: Sammy plans to continue growing Apex Pro by exploring new markets like Dayton, Ohio, while keeping a grounded approach to ensure long-term sustainability.

• Sammy: "I'm just enjoying the moment [...] success and growing and competing and opening a new market." (63:02)

Key Takeaways

1. Culture is Paramount: Building a positive and inclusive work culture fosters employee loyalty and drives business success.
2. Aggressive yet Strategic Marketing: Investing significantly in marketing can expedite growth, especially when viewed as an investment.
3. Community Engagement Enhances Brand: Authentic community service initiatives strengthen brand reputation and customer loyalty.
4. Leadership Involvement is Crucial: Hands-on leadership ensures that company values are upheld and operations run smoothly.
5. Adaptability Ensures Resilience: Being willing to pivot and adapt to changing circumstances is essential for sustained growth.

Notable Quotes

• Sammy: "You'll never see Apex advertisement with a signing bonus. [...] We are really a tech-centric business." (00:56)
• Sammy: "When you change your mindset to properly look at things as it's not an expense but an investment, you unlock real business." (34:37)
• Sammy: "An idea is only as good as its execution." (51:11)
• Sammy: "I like taking care of people [...] create a good work atmosphere that people can love coming to work." (23:35)
• Sammy: "If people recognize that, then I think that could lead to a lot more success." (25:43)
• Sammy: "The greatest strength in business is I don't give up on people quick enough." (58:38)

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Conclusion

Sammy Corporations’ journey with Apex Pro is a compelling blueprint for rapid and sustainable growth in the home services industry. By prioritizing culture, strategic marketing, community engagement, and hands-on leadership, he has transformed a modest startup into a formidable player generating nearly $50 million in revenue within five years. Aspiring entrepreneurs and business leaders can glean invaluable insights from his experiences, emphasizing that success is a blend of strategic planning, adaptability, and genuine care for people.

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For more insights and actionable strategies to grow your home services business, tune into future episodes of "To The Point - Home Services Podcast."

Transcript

[Chris]

Started this business, you know when it made the most sense, right? In What, December of 2020? Is that what it was? November, December 2020, something like that?

[Sammy]

Sammy Corporations created December. But really we started and got our first three vans in March of 2021.

[Chris]

And then last year you rolled your hundred. Like I don't even know where you're at now, right?

[Sammy]

You're probably 135 vans right now on the road.

[Chris]

Dude. It's been incredible, like so fast.

[Sammy]

So I recruited and hired and interviewed our first 110 employees myself. I still to this every single one of our technician meetings every single Tuesday. And we want to have a good happy go lucky business. I said you'll never see Apex advertisement with a signing bonus. And I see some guys, $10,000 signing bonuses and this all types of crazy shit. But like you'll never see that from us. Without these technicians, there is no management position, there is no back office, there is no call center, there's no warehouse. So we are really a tech centric business.

[Chris]

You guys do a lot of good stuff in the community too.

[Sammy]

We created something called Alex Cares and you know, out of chance there was a, a older lady that didn't have hot water and hadn't had hot water in some time and you know, they brought it to my attention and I'm like, man, like yeah, let's take care of that. As somebody who grew up in the inner city, you'd like to give back to the less fortunate because you've been there and you've seen what that side of life actually looks like. You know, early on we were spending 15 and 20% and people were telling me I'm crazy. And yeah, sure, I didn't make money for my first year. I didn't make money for my first two years. I didn't care about making money. I was trying to build a company, right?

[Chris]

Always been pretty aggressive, you know, about going about just even on the digital.

[Sammy]

Side where we will touch our, you know, our first four million dollar plus month this month.

[Chris]

So nice job, man.

[Sammy]

That's awesome.

[Chris]

How is this happening so fast?

[Sammy]

Just market, right? And it's like do everything, like literally do any and everything that you possibly can to get the phone ring, figure out what works, figure out what don't work and keep moving. So this is to the Point a Rhino experience voted one of the top home services, marketing and operations podcasts.

[Chris]

Cutting through the and getting to the point. Hey, what's up to the Point listeners, it's your boy Chris along with my co host, Mr. Chad Peterman. Mr. Chad Peterman, the Ron Collie ringer sits across. Look at it. Looks like you got maybe it looks like you got a little bit of sun. Did you get some sun? Chatters just a little bit warm in your office maybe?

[Sammy]

I did.

[Chad]

I was down and I was down in Florida playing golf with my college buddies last. Last week.

[Chris]

That's right. That's right.

[Chad]

Yeah, we did that yesterday.

[Chris]

You know, you know what's special about today?

[Chad]

It's your birthday, buddy.

[Chris]

It's my birthday. It's my birthday. 46 years old today.

[Chad]

Look 30, look 30. No, I've still got a few years left in my 30s. So I'm gonna cherish them before I get as old as you are.

[Chris]

Yeah, you should, you should do that. Well, what also makes today special is our guest. This is his first first and we've been trying his first podcast. We get to pull him out from behind the curtain. Always laying low even though he's growing a monster company in the state of Ohio. I'm excited to have our buddy Sammy on, on the podcast today. It's going to be a fun one. Chad. So for those listening, you are in for a real treat because if you've not met Sammy or heard about his business, maybe you've heard about and you're like, who in the hell is running this business? What is this Apex Pro stuff? What's going on in Ohio? You know our buddy Aaron Gaynor with eco like, but you. But do you know Sammy IU from Apex Pros? Well, you're about to find out today, baby. He is over in Columbus as well. H Vac Plumbing, electrical, started this business, well, you know when it made the most sense, right? In What? December of 2020. Is that what it was? November, December 2020, something like that, Sammy.

[Sammy]

Really we count the start date March of 2021. So right around there that the corporations created December, but really we started and got our first three vans in March of 2021.

[Chris]

And then last year you rolled your hundredth. Like I don't even know where you're at now, right? You're, you're up over a hundred on the road.

[Sammy]

Probably 135 vans right now. On the road.

[Chris]

Dude, it's been incredible. Like so fast, you know, still, I mean private company 30 finished 33 million last year, pushing 50 this year. Like it is such a sick story. And like I'm so intrigued by like how is this happening so fast? And it's interesting. What makes even more interesting is your background. And like you I Mean, we'll get into the story, but. But first, what I want to do is I just want to say something I've noticed about you. Just in a few years, you and I become buddies and got to know each other and. And even work together, you know, with Rhino and Apex is you don't go to a whole. Like, when you go to these events, like, you're pretty. Still selective on what you go to. We even ran into each other at Barty's event. Like, it was a Service Titan thing. Like, that might be one of the last ones. I actually went. One of those deals I went to was servicing. But you come to Rhino X, you've been to a couple Rhino X.

[Sammy]

Now, this is on my short list. As I told you. The first year, I tried to go around to a couple events, and I ended up leaving those events. And at the end of my first year, I said, there'll be two that I try to stick to. It's Rhinox, where I think there's a tremendous benefit and a pantheon with Service Titan, I think is another one with Great Benefit. Not. Not a whole lot of rah riding between the two.

[Chris]

So I love it, man. Well, you know what one of my favorite. My favorite moments of you at this last Rhino X was? It was when Terry Bradshaw.

[Sammy]

Yeah, I got that picture. It's a good one. I made the mistake of walking up to him and told him I never thought I'd. As a Browns fan, I'd shake a Schittsburg Steelers fan. And he. He snatched my beard up.

[Chris]

So that was such a good. And we got a picture. It was so good. He just sit there and held it. Yeah, we got to get that picture and share it. Like, in the video. If we can add that thing, it'd be great. My other thing about Sammy that most people don't know, this guy has one of the sickest koi ponds you ever seen. This thing is massive. Calling it a pond doesn't even seem right. There's like a whole massive water feature. Like that is that. I mean, I think Josh Kelly was telling me he was over there at one point, and he was like, that's incredible. What is your. What's your. What's the deal with the koi man? Like, you just. You love these fish.

[Sammy]

Like, I was redoing my patio, and my wife said, hey, can we. We put a little koi pond right here. And I had my landscaper over, and I said, yeah, we can figure something out. So I went to the back of the house and, you know, I snatched up half the backyard and said, hey, let's. Let's see how this would look right here. And the next day she came out and we're. We're digging a nice koi pond. So it started off as a little thing on a patio and ended up being a nice. A nice sized koi pond. It's. It's my little time away from work to go. Go home and get some peace and quiet and start off with a couple. And there's probably 40 or 50 in there, so.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's incredible. That picture you sent me today, those things are massive.

[Sammy]

Yeah, they're getting big.

[Chris]

Well, listen, it looks gorgeous. Yeah. And I'm sure you probably spent a grip on that thing. The. Given the size of it is, you know, your little bitty koi pond that you have in the backyard looks like Sweetwater Lake, Chad.

[Sammy]

Yeah.

[Chris]

But I want to jump into this too. Like, it's. It's so cool to hear, you know. Well, one, to kind of have been, you know, a, you know, a spectator on watching you, you grow and scale apex and. And to see like, I mean, gosh, to be pushing 50 and like, we're talking just a few years is pretty incredible.

[Sammy]

Yeah, we've been blessed said.

[Chris]

Yes. And I want to, like, talk through, like, the strategy of what you've been doing and the nerve, because you're like, you know, you're spending some money to scale and grow this thing. And. And what I think is interesting too is I always look at people's reviews too, as they're scaling fast because, you know, sometimes can go sideways and you're still. Still pushing like 4, 600 reviews with, I think it's like 4.8, 4.9 stars like that. So clearly things are going great, but it's just like all of it seems like too good to be true. Like, this thing is just growing. It's growing. It's healthy business. You know, you're making money at scaling it. You got great culture. Like, you're doing a ton in the community and you come from the telecom world, dude. Like it like the nations. What. I don't know if you still are, but it was the nation's largest Boost Mobile retailer.

[Sammy]

Yeah, so. So we're the largest, you know, Boost Mobile Retail, largest prepaid retailer in the country. And, you know, we kind of grew from. From nothing. Started off humble days with one location in 1997. Ish. And, you know, kind of grew that to, you know, got serious about growth. 2014. Took it from 14 locations in 2014. To 2020. 250 locations in 14 states. So.

[Chris]

Kid grief. 97. That's when I graduated high school.

[Sammy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris]

So. So you still are like, you still have that going. Like you're still involved with that.

[Sammy]

So, ironically enough, I exited that business after 28 years on March 17. So that was my. My last day. And this year. Yes, this year. So, yeah, so we at our peak, had about 750 employees and 250 locations, and I just exited that business. March 17th was our last day, and it was a bittersweet moment for us, so.

[Chris]

Well, congratulations, dude. That's a hell of a run you had there.

[Sammy]

It was. It's kind of what, you know, I guess, you know, made me a businessman. Took me from an owner, operator and a high schooler. Kind of dropped out of high school when I was in ninth grade, and me and my brother started out in 1997 and kind of, you know, started growing from there. But, yeah, that was my whole business life, so it was a bittersweet moment.

[Chris]

So are you from Ohio?

[Sammy]

Born and raised in Cleveland and moved to Columbus in 96. 97. Yep.

[Chris]

So. So then are you. Then you would be a Browns fan?

[Sammy]

Die hard Browns fan. Yes, sir. Season ticket holder every game. And, you know, this year, this year I wasn't going to renew my tickets, and I'm like. Then I said, yeah, I went for it. But thankfully we got the Cavs that are kicking ass. So I think we'll see Chad here in a couple of weeks in round two, so we'll see what happens. Cavs and Pacers.

[Chad]

Yeah, we kick off. What is that? Kicks off Sunday?

[Chris]

I think.

[Chad]

I think it's game one or something like that. So, yeah, it should be good. We got lucky last night. My God, it did not look good there at overtime, but they somehow pulled.

[Sammy]

That was a wild comeback.

[Chad]

So, yeah, it was wild.

[Chris]

No Pacers. You guys got Shitter Sanders coming in. The whole deal around that. How you feeling?

[Sammy]

Hey, listen, man, we got five quarterbacks. You figure we can't. We can't F up all five of them, man. So hopefully one of the five will work out.

[Chris]

Well, you see, the Arizona Cardinals, we pretty much messed them all up.

[Sammy]

So, like, it's been 30 years. I mean, sometimes in life you got to gamble a little bit. So we'll figure out one to five, hopefully somebody shakes out. If not next year. We got two first rounders. We'll get lucky somehow.

[Chris]

Well, listen, I feel your pain, buddy. Like, the only person that's worse than you do is the Arizona Cardinals. So I got that going for me. Okay, so listen, we talked a little bit about, you know, you just exited your, your telecom business after all these years. I'm sure it's a, probably an incred, incredibly successful exit. And that actually is kind of where I was thinking like, how are you doing? That's not a small business and neither is Apex. So you got both these big behemoths kind of doing their thing and it's like there's one Sammy. So like what the hell are we doing here? Like how are you managing these things? So, so maybe let's do this then for the listeners is let's just talk through, you know, you built this, you built that. Your, your telecom business, you start to transition Apex. I need to understand how that came about. Like why and why, why that, why did you pick, you know, that the pandemic to do it? Like what was the. Help me, help me with the transition from your.

[Aaron]

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[Chris]

That's R I L L a Rilla.

[Sammy]

So the pandemic was I guess a little bit of ignorance on the trades business, but also some wisdom on the wireless business. So pandemic came and as everybody knows, retail started to get shut down. There were store closures, there were non essential businesses and all of that. So sales started dip, people stopped coming into stores. We had to put up masks, glass, all types of other stuff. Cities were telling us we had to shut down, we couldn't be open so, you know, long at that point really, you know, we're kind of at our peak. There wasn't too much more growth to go into wireless and you know, you know, interested in another active business. So that business started to teeter a little bit because of the COVID and the pandemic and said why don't we try something different? You know, I had a great team in place. I have, you know, I had a person that been with me for 20 years that was start off, you know, just in one of the stores and kind of worked his way up to a regional manager and you know, figured, you know, try to give some Other people, some opportunities. The business was running good, had a great team in place after, you know, 25 plus years running the business. So really just, you know, said let's try something different. Really didn't know too much about the trades. It was kind of, I don't want to say it was ended up with plumbing as an accident. Right. First thing was just trying to get another active business that can potentially grow. Had to and I to be totally transparent, I didn't plan on managing it full time or being involved full time in Apex or the second business that I opened. So I was going to do a landscape business, had two landscape companies that I was going to purchase and kind of merge together. The business broker at that point he was struggling because of the pandemic. He said, man, if you're not going to run it, why don't you let me come over and run that the two businesses and combine them. So anyway, I had offer on the two businesses, businesses that fell through and then ended up with a guy that wanted to work and me wanting to do something else. So ultimately decided, looked around and for all the obvious reasons that everybody else is in this pandemic, proof recession proof, outsource proof technology proof, you know, it's something that's scalable, you can add on different verticals, you can, you know, hit other markets, which I was used to with the wireless company growing that. So decided I'm plumbing, went out and hired a licensed plumber and he just happened to be a commercial plumber. So he convinced me that we should be going after Chick Fil A's and Wendy Wendy's and all types of other stuff. And after submitting about 20 or 30 estimates and looking at him for about 3, 4 weeks and asked him what's next? He said, oh, we just wait for one of them to reply to us. So I'm like, yeah, that's probably not going to work. So then quickly started researching residential and you know, from there it kind of took off. And then really I March of 2021, we just, that guy was, you know, over here running it as a GM and we pretty much started with three service vans and we, I accidentally, you know, I was trying to do a little bit of research when we were talking about residential and some somewhere on Facebook. I didn't even have Facebook at the time. Ended up seeing that nextstar was out there called nexstar. The lady kind of laughed me off the phone and told me, you need to be in business for years, you need to have so much revenue. But she Said, I'll do two things for you. You need to give, I'll give you two pieces of advice. Her name was Lisa. She said, you need to focus on Ms. Jones and then you also need to focus on drains. That's going to be your money maker. So, and then after that she sent me a welcome package. And in that welcome package I just opened it and seen a Dan Antonelli magazine with all of his, you know, stats and all of that stuff. And I was on upwork trying to get a van crafted and then seen that and quickly pivoted and that's where our brand was born. Called up Dan immediately after seeing his work and we did a deal with him and kind of created a brand and got rocking and rolling from there.

[Chris]

So, so 2021, you've got your three vans, your plumbing company. When did you start to add in the other?

[Sammy]

So 2021, March of 2021, hired a couple of service plumbers, a couple of vans. We didn't have a website website until June of 2021. So we got a website up in June of 2021. We're just, you know, monkeying around with everything else. Prior to that we added H vac in 23 and then we added electrical in 24 and that's kind of where we are now.

[Chris]

So how many actual people, I mean I know we talked to, you have 100 and some odd vehicles, but like how many people you actually have working for you today at Apex?

[Sammy]

So probably right around a 200 mark, maybe a little bit shy of that. So probably in a 190 rang, I checked, it's probably close to 200 people.

[Chad]

How do you, what do you attribute to, I mean, congrats to all your growth. That's a phenomenal story and very quick. Obviously we all understand these are people, businesses that you've gotta, you gotta find the talent if you want to grow. You gotta find more plumbers, more service techs, installers, so on and so forth. Like what would you attribute, Was that something you learned from kind of the wireless days or was that something you kind of grew to learn as far as kind of the recruiting aspect and building teams?

[Sammy]

So I think, I think building teams and recruiting is, you know, obviously wireless was all kind of trial by error. And you know, I under just fundamentally I like taking care of people. We run any company that I'm involved with, it's really a family atmosphere, just a happy go lucky business and culturally like strong business. Right. And I'm involved in the day to day. I know some people Visionaries, you know, integrators. I pride myself on kind of being all of that. Right. So I think talent wise, just really to get started, you know, we recruited a couple guys and you know, just, just normal stuff. You do go out there. Indeed. And all of that. What I quickly realized though is, you know, I recruited our first 110 employees. And when I say I recruited, I mean followed up with them. Indeed. We didn't hire a recruiter. Our recruiter just celebrated, I think is year and a half, whatever, close to somewhere around there. But. So I recruited and hired and interviewed our first 110 employees myself. But what I quickly figured out, you know, first month or two is everybody hated their previous job. And every plumber I interviewed worked for five plumbing companies. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? Well, the owner don't give a shit about us and they treat us like this and they date, you know, every excuse that I'm sure you've heard. So it's like, well, I already run a business and you can see my other employees are right here because we're in the same building. And that's just not how we operate, nor is it how I want to operate. And we want to create something different and we want to have a good, happy, go lucky business. I said, I come in the office five times a day. I'm a happy dude. I got adhd. I like to be excited, I like to walk around, I like to, you know, whatever. Won't get into all the other stuff, but like, that's just who I am. So I said, that's the atmosphere and the culture that we're going to have here. And you know, of course they didn't believe it and you know, one, two guys, three guys. And then I think it was kind of like an avalanche effect after it because as that started to go, we, we came out with performance pre. That was like how we started. As I interviewed people myself, I learned a lot about the business. Well, all on paid and if I do this and nobody cares. And the other guys were all, we're commission based and if we, you know, if we don't make anything, we don't get paid. So I'm like, well, why don't we come up with a happy medium? So I came up with kind of a guaranteed, you know, base for them. Guaranteed minimum or to exceed what a performance plan. So we came up with that and you know, we, we had some good success with that from our good buddy here locally. We were able to pull over a lot of good guys originally and then kind of just, you know, kind of grew from there.

[Chris]

So, so, so then culture sounds like one thing. Where it was, you said one thing. Because everybody's always experienced something different. Like they hear it and then the actions don't, you know, don't follow what they hear. But, but they're starting to like, feel it as they're getting in there. And then now you got everybody else talking about like, nah, man, it's legit. Like, everything here is good. And they pay, you know, the pay is good. Take good care of us, they care about us.

[Sammy]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And then that thing scales. It's hard to, it's hard to keep trying to keep that, you know, without people who are also champions.

[Sammy]

Yeah, it is hard to keep that. But like, I think, like, and, and I didn't go back to the original story. So probably six months after we're in, I'm starting to notice that there's, you know, some good, there's some good potential here with Apex. So I removed the, the gm, the acting gm, and I said, well, if we're going to build this and this is super scalable, let me get involved and let me build the culture, the atmosphere, to process the procedures that I want to have in place. So kindly had had him exit the business. And then I kind of stepped into that role full time towards the end of 2021. But again, you know, I was recruiting the guys, I was talking to him, but I'm. I was also the guy out there on the barbecue grill, right? I was also the guy cooking for him. I was also the guy. I still to this day, I host every single one of our technician meetings every single Tuesday. I get up in front of, you know, 100 some odd people every single Tuesday. Right? So that's me. And I haven't allowed that to go because. And I know literally everybody in this building, I walk around this building and I know it's getting a little bit hard for me to remember everybody's name these days, but like, you know, I still try to have that relationship with guys and just kind of make sure that my managers understand the people part of it. And I tell them, hey, without these technicians, there is no management position, there is no back office, there is no call center, there's no warehouse. So we are really a tech centric business that make sure that we're focusing on that front line. Wow.

[Chad]

You learned that in short order. And congrats to you because I feel the exact same. I mean, I had a technician that stopped by my office today that just started and said, hey, I just want to introduce myself. Like hey man, what's going on? What are you doing? Where are you working at all of that stuff. And I think it's so critical that the leader, especially as you scale and you become removed from the, the day to day and these are people businesses. If you are not frontline focused, you are going to falter pretty darn quickly. And so I think it's amazing and I think something that listeners should take note of is, you know, as your business scales, you still have to be in it and you've still got to have relationships with these guys. Yes, you may not see them every day, yes, you may not interact with them every day. But like knowing their name, knowing who they are, like it goes a long, long way.

[Sammy]

Totally. And I think, you know, if people recognize that, then I think that could lead to a lot more success. You know, we first got started, the first question used to be how the hell did you get so many vans? That was a pandemic when you couldn't get vans, right? And then the, the second obvious question was how did you find all these employees? Right? And it's like, well, if I, I just, I'm a firm believer if you take care of people, Chad, you know better than I. Everybody knows somebody, right? Every plumber knows five other plumber. Every H Vac tech knows five other H Vac techs, right? So you just take care of people. And it's. We, we've never went out there. You'll never see Apex advertisement with a signing bonus. And I see some guys, ten thousand dollar signing bonuses and this all types of crazy shit. But like you'll never see that from us. We, we're just create a good work atmosphere that people can love coming to work, right? And enjoy and then also pay them for it. Make sure that they're good with their pay, make sure that they're happy at work. And you should have a good, good culture.

[Chris]

It's actually not too, too surprising that you, that you said that you recruited and like hired those first hundred people. Chad still loves doing that shit.

[Chad]

I was recruiting this morning.

[Sammy]

Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest with you. I gave up the recruiting role. But anytime there's a decent sized name or there's a sales guy coming through or I hear there's a heavy hitter, he's coming right in here. We call this the war room. I sit right here all day, every day with glass in front of me. I don't hide from anybody and I'm the one interviewing them. Right. And I'm the one going back and forth. I'm sure Chad probably feels the same way. That's, that's my competitive feel. And how I compete in this business is going out and taking somebody and, you know, creating, selling somebody on a vision and being able to recruit, you know, some good talent and bring them in the door. So I love it.

[Chad]

Yeah. I was talking to an installer, I kid you not, this morning, who had a question about how we paid or something like that, was just confused. And so I just called him and he's like, who is this? I was like, it's Chad Peterman. Peterman Brothers. What's up, man? And he's like, oh, I thought this was going to be somebody else, like a secretary or something like that. I was like, no, man, what's up? How could I help? And he's like, well, that just sure meant a lot for you to call. I was like, well, yeah, we need installers. Summers are coming, man. I don't care what I gotta do. Like, you're the most important thing on my list.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Sammy]

Yeah. And I think people grow and they, they lose focus on the business. And some, you know, I got some buddies in the business. Some people just aren't front fac. You know, business owners, right. They want to hide in their office and, you know, people don't know who they are and they don't want to interact with text or low level employees. And that's just, just not who we are around here.

[Chris]

So you must. So I gotta, I. You know, Tommy, Tommy is like, there's levels to effort. Right. And I feel like Tommy's like at the peak of, of that level. Like he is constantly on the go and doing all the things. Would you say that you're a lot like that too? I mean, are you kind of all over the place all the time?

[Sammy]

I am. I'm the guy that was. When we were trying to figure out inventory. I was in a warehouse and, you know, on my hands and knees trying to figure out an inventory bin and how to set our trucks up. And now every truck looks the same. And, you know, obviously I go home, you know, I try to go home after work and when the kids are asleep and I got the TV on some white noise at night, pull my laptop back out and start my second shift most days.

[Chris]

So you do when? I appreciate that. I think it's awesome and it makes a lot of sense based on just how, how, how much you're scaling so quickly that you would have your hands in a lot of the things, but you did make a hard pivot to a whole new industry, man. Like, so did you. I mean, is. Is part of this. Like, you're just trying to get involved in everything and just learn, maybe not all of it, but just a little bit about every piece of that business. So that way you could have, like, you feel like your input is more valuable or just to understand decision making.

[Sammy]

That's just who I am. I'm just an operator by heart. So, like, I'm the guy who's, you know, trying to figure out, like, I. I say, I got a PhD in the trades real quick. I. I didn't have social media before, really before Apex. I got a Facebook account and started jumping in every single Facebook group that I could. I got on every podcast. Obviously, yours was instrumental in my growth and listened to every single one of those podcasts, got on, you know, nextar Podcast, Tommy's podcast, and literally listened to, without exaggerations, you know, hours and hours and hours and hours of podcasts and scrolled over tons of posts and Facebook and anything that I was trying to figure out, going back and searching and then, you know, shamelessly sliding into people's DMs and asking, hey, man, I see you posted this and what's this about? And how do you do this? And, you know, just trying to figure things out. And obviously, you know, I know I don't know what I don't know. And, you know, reached out and did shop visits. I know I asked you to, you know, introduce me to Chad at one point. And, you know, we snuck out, you know, to visit Peterman a couple years ago, went to Jimmy Hiller's. He's got a phenomenal establishment there. Went to any hour, went over to Barty, so just tried to go out to some places and kind of see and, you know, just. Just poke around and look and, you know, as I say, and I know everybody says it, and as a newcomer in the business, when you hear somebody say there's no magic pill, you get frustrated, right? Or you hear Ishmael on a podcast talking about, just do everything. Just do everything. When people are asking about marketing. And the reality is it's. It's the truth, right? There is no magic pill. As you hear Chad talk about, just take care of people, right? What people keep asking, how do you get more leads? How do you do just market, right? And it's like, do everything. Like, literally do any and everything that you possibly can to get the phone ring, figure out what works Figure out what don't work and keep moving.

[Chris]

So, yeah, you do. You do. You're a pretty aggressive marker. Actually, it's a little bit lower down on my list. But since you brought it up, I just want to talk about it because you, I mean, one, I mean, we've, we've been able to work together for a few years and you've always been pretty aggressive, you know, about going about just even on the digital side, but you're doing more than that. Like, you guys have a relationship with. Was it the Columbus Blue Jackets?

[Sammy]

Yeah.

[Chris]

You guys do a ton of activation with.

[Sammy]

Yeah, so, so, you know, marketing. I love marketing. Prior to our Boost Mobile days, we had our own, you know, own company name and we did marketing back then as well. But, like, you know, I, I, I love marketing. Right. I love, you know, to hustle and grind. That's probably my, my second favorite thing to do besides recruiting is marketing. Get out there. But, you know, it's probably one of the crazy things that drove me to craziest early on. And Josh Kelly, you know, he, we signed up for Clover and he'd been out to our shop multiple times and just, he was, obviously gave us a lot of simplistic ideas and things. But I think one of the biggest misconceptions and I think probably one of the worst pieces of advice in the industry is when somebody give you a marketing percentage and I think everybody tells you you need to be at 10% or you need to be at 8% or you need to be at 5%. And it's probably the biggest crock of in the industry. Like a percentage is only, I mean, it's all relevant on where you are and where you want to be and how you want to get there, right? And, you know, early on we were spending 15 and 20% and people were telling me I'm crazy. And yeah, sure, I didn't make money for my first year. I didn't make money for my first two years. I didn't care about making money. I was trying to build a company, right. And I knew that would come at its, you know, correct point in time. But it's like, where you want to be market like you, where you want to be, right? And I think as you talk to more sophisticated people, they'll give you the right answer. But talking to the wrong people, oh, you need to be at 8% or 7% and it's like, dude, I'm a $1 million company or $2 million company. Sure, I can spend 5% and end up at 1.5 or I can spend 20% and go from, you know, zero to, you know, 50 million in three, four years.

[Chad]

So I think that's such a great point and something that I would agree with you on. It's, it's. There is no set, there's no set percentage. I think that there's stages, right? It's like, okay, I'm going to scale. Okay, well that percentage is going to look a hell of a lot different than if you're just, hey, we're established. I'm pretty comfortable at being a $5 million shop then. Yeah, if you're pretty comfortable being a $5 million shop, you shouldn't be spending 15%. Try 5 because you don't need to. But I think that's such a key point is to length where you want to go. You know, I equate it to like when we go into a new market, yeah, we're going to spend a lot because no one knows who the hell we are. But in indie, yeah, I don't have to spend and I can still grow substantially because, well, hell, we've been around for 40 years. People know who the hell we are. So I think that's such a great point for people to, to latch onto is find the end result and then, you know, obviously do it. You can't run yourself into the ground. But if you want to run pretty close to, okay, I'm good. Not making a whole lot of money. Well, most of your money that you're making can be spent in marketing to grow. As a good mentor of mine always said, you don't take margin to the bank, they take dollars.

[Sammy]

And that's kind of exactly how what we did, I mean, we got TV early, we got radio early. I mean we did, you know, a huge deal with the Columbus Blue Jackets, you know, a year and a half in way premature, but I'm thinking long term, hey, this was an opportunity. It's probably going to get taken by PE when they come in here or all of these other guys that are trying to penetrate the market and grow. And also it gives us some validity, you know, putting our name next to the only professional sports team in, you know, Columbus and the owners professional hockey team in the state of Ohio. Yeah, sure, it was expensive, it was crazy. But it's like, you know, go big or go home. So it worked out and, and we're doing good.

[Chris]

So yeah, I love it. And by the way, Chad humbly says we've been in the market for 40 years. You built a brand in the, in Indianapolis over that. Spent amount of time doing. Spent some good money on it, which.

[Chad]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris]

Which has allowed you to actually take that stance out. So you did. You actually did exactly what Sammy's talking about and built a whole brand. So. So I want to make sure listeners hear that now, now, now, you, you guys are. You guys get it. You guys are both aggressive. You understand the long, the long play. Like, you know, you hear long term, greedy piece of this. So you're willing to kind of spend. Now, you gotta have capital to do that in some instances. Right? Because if you're having months where you're not making the money while you got to pay the bill to keep doing the thing and you're. These aren't like little chunks. When you start talking traditional media and sponsorships, those are big chunks.

[Sammy]

Yeah.

[Chris]

So. So maybe, maybe because you're all paid.

[Sammy]

About a month, Chris, and we're in a good cash business, you can pay for. You. You just might not be able to take any money home at the end of the day. And I think when you change your mindset in business, and it was something that helped me grow in the wireless business and something that I've obviously pivoted over here is when you stop looking at. When you can look at spending money one of two ways. Is it a cost or an expense or isn't an investment? And when you can change your mindset to properly look at things as it's not an expense and it's an investment, that's when I think you unlock real business. Right? You. You start to look at, yeah, this radio or TV is going to cost me. No, it's not. It's really an investment. I'm going to explode in the next six months or 12 months or 18 months.

[Chris]

Yeah. I mean, this is literally what we did with, you know, Chad and I have our. You know, Chad and I have a roofing business. Right.

[Sammy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris]

So that was the same mentality that we took into year one was let's, you know, we, we, we, you know, we kind of, I guess, got a little bit of a cheater because Chad, you know, Chad's brand is so. Is, you know, is so big.

[Sammy]

You got his pretty face all over the city on 300 trucks already. So, I mean, it's kind of cheating, Chris. So let's not even compare, man.

[Chris]

We piggybacked off of it. Yes, it was, it was a very strategic move by yo boy. Okay. Let's just leverage this thing, you know. But we did the same thing like we did pump a bunch of money, you know, into branding and trying to push the brand of the business knowing that we needed it to pay off. Because you got to start with, start from, you're starting from scratch with it. I mean, we started at like, you know, 20, but we still had to build a roofing business brand. But we had the same mentality, you know, going into it. And, and you know, we started to see some of that, but it also gave us some validity quick, which then helps with recruiting, you know, and it kind of helps. You know, I'm like, you know, you can still pigeonhole certain markets, but like, you're trying to blanket the whole, like, as a plan is to keep growing and scaling. And the thing that you said that, that I love the most is, you know, act as if you're already at your 5 million mark and let's start spending to make sure at the 5 million mark. Like. And we had this exact same conversation when we were doing planning, you know, planning for the business. I'm such a big believer in that. But it is like most people look at it straight, you know, until it's actually they're seeing revenue coming in, if they're even tracking it properly. They look at it as a straight expense. And when it's an expense, it's a negative. When it's an investment, it's positive.

[Sammy]

Yep.

[Chris]

So. So what, like, you guys do a lot of good stuff in the community too. And you use. Is Alex. Alex the name of your, of your.

[Sammy]

Alex is the name of the mascot. So Apex Alex, you know, we named him. He's got a voice. He's on the radio, he's on tv. And you know, as we started rocking and rolling, we created something called Alex Cares. And it's, it's our own little, own little thing that we do internally here. The guys know. And I think it kind of just happened like, you know, out of chance. There was an older lady that didn't have hot water and it hasn't. Hadn't had hot water in some time. And you know, they brought it to my attention and I'm like, man, like, yeah, let's take care of that. And you know, dispatcher called her back and you know, she was, she was in tears and crying. It's like, man, I'm like, wow. So we kind of took that and kind of started rolling with him. He did Alex Cares event and you know, now people, they don't have a system or they don't have a hot water tank and the guys make a good case and it is a good Case we'll go ahead and, and try to do something and give back and put a system in there, put a water heater, whatever we got to do to try to help out.

[Chris]

Yeah, I love that because that's the kind of stuff that like, that really resonates quickly because it gives now your business, like, it's not about the actual business, it's about the DNA of that business. Right. The DNA is you, like you're trying to be a legit, you know, helpful in the community, doing things to help people. Because it is still a people business.

[Sammy]

Yeah, man. When we do some other stuff like Buddy Ball and going out there with, you know, people with special needs and a lot of, a lot of grassroots stuff, and I just, you know, I think at the cloth of who we are as a company, obviously that's, that's what we want to do and, and how we want to give back. Obviously at some point there's a fine balance of, you know, doing it with pure intentions. And then also, you know, if you are going to do it anyway, is there, you know, some business benefit there could be, you know, I guess a fine line there. We don't try to push it as something that, you know, we're doing, hey, look at us, we're the holy rollers. But it's something that's on the website. People, people can go there and actually nominate the next person or if they know somebody in need, they can do that as well. And I will take that and take a look at it.

[Chris]

I think that you just said something that I think is important to just throw out there real quick. It's something I believe in because I think you. Well, I know Chad knows this, Sammy, I think you probably know this about me. But, you know, community service giving back is something that, that I'm a big believer in and have been for the longest time. And I was never afraid to share it, that we did it. The reason being is there's always going to be people that talk, right? You go and give back. And I'm like, oh, he's just out there bragging. I know that we do it because we want to do it. Like that was part of the deal as we scaled was I needed to make sure we continue to do community service and we go and give back. And we wanted to share that for this reason, if we share it, people see that they can go. And some people don't even know where you can go and do community service app. Like a lot of people have no clue.

[Sammy]

Yeah. Our first, our first year we did a turkey drive. We had a drive, a drive bay at our shop and we went and bought out whatever fifty hundred turkeys put on our Facebook page and had the less force than it just drive through and had our employees passing out free turkeys to people. So it's like, you know, as somebody who grew up in the inner city, you know, on welfare and grew up four brothers in one bedroom with two bunk beds, it's, you know, you like to give back to the less fortunate because you've been there and you've seen what that side of life actually looks like.

[Chris]

Good for you, dude. Good for you. I love that. That's, that's. And if you legit mean it like that, then who gives a what anybody says? Because you know what you're about. You know what I mean?

[Sammy]

I tell people all the time, I only give a about what happens in these four walls. We don't have any competition. I don't damn sure don't care about what happens outside of them.

[Chris]

So I love it. I, I listen. Okay, so I want to get back into just some of this, this, you know, I want to understand the trajectory of the business. So, so we talked about 24 being, you guys finishing around 33 million and, and you guys tracking 50 million this year. But like, what was this? What was 23, 22, like, what did that growth look like? Because I'm interested in the chunks you were taking to see like, how some of the early mark aggressive market was paying off.

[Sammy]

So first year, I have it written down. So first year, 2021, which will count 20, whatever started in March, really didn't have a website until June. First year we did 4 million. That was all plumbing our first calendar year, which would have been 2022, still all plumbing. We did about $16 million in straight plumbing in 2022, 23, we added H vac. We did about 26, 27 million in 23, 24, we add electrical. And quite honestly, I think 24, we didn't grow at the pace that I would have liked to grow. I mean, we went from, you know, 26 to 33 and just, I think we didn't understand H Vac. Ken Goodrich told me, don't, don't add anything until you're the top three in one thing in your market. And he told me that when we added H Vac and told me that when we add electric on, I'm like, yeah, whatever, we'll take some of your advice, but not all of it, buddy. So Josh Kelly looked at me, told Me, I was crazy when I told him we were going to try to hit 10 million our first year in H vac as well. But like I think 24, you know, we added electrical and we still didn't understand H Vac. H Vac is not the same game as plumbing. Like you got to really run a business and like you got to make the business right. It's not like plumbing. You can sit back and make calls. You got to create business. You could be weather dependent or weather enhanced. And I think we didn't understand that in 24. And we were really weather, you know, dependent and kind of that's, that's where we were. We weren't really locked in. And then, don't get me wrong, it was a good year. So we did 33ish. And then this year we set a goal for mid-40s and we are trending for 50 and we're about 60 up year over year, first quarter and we are going to have our best month in company history in the month of April. We will touch our, you know, our first four million dollar plus month this month.

[Chris]

So nice job, man. That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, you know what's crazy about your market is, you know, you, I mean you obviously know like Aaron's one of our good friends too. And then both you guys are big companies, both scaling big numbers at the same time. Like you guys are both both exploding in the same place.

[Sammy]

Yeah. Yep. I was chat. I sent him a text message the other day. So we moved out of our old building and I rented it to a, a the guy who outfits our vans and another company that wraps our vans. He just happens to get his vans outfitted at the same place. So every time people drive past us right on the highway, they text me, I said, man, I see Eco at our building or Eco at our old building. What's up? And I'm like, yeah, they're just getting our trucks outfitted. But he seems to be doing pretty good. We started off with a rocky relationship but we're in good, good shape now, so.

[Chris]

Oh yeah, we were just talking about you because we, he was with us over in, over in Palm Springs this weekend too. We had a good conversation.

[Sammy]

Yep. So yeah, I think, I think he, you know, obviously having, you know, a behemoth like that in the market, I'm glad I wasn't competing against Roto Rooter and Mr. Rooter and there was an Eco here to compete against.

[Chris]

Right.

[Sammy]

It made, made us start the way, made us level up and Understand what a good business look like and what a good business should be. And that's, you know, we kind of rock and roll and, you know, kind of set our sights there and have, have been rolling.

[Chris]

So Chad, this is the most quiet you've been. Are you just sitting there like taking notes? You're like, oh, what's he doing this?

[Chad]

No, I love the, I love the. It's interesting to see these because I think you talk to so many people who struggle with the growth. And you know, I think what I hear from Sammy and the way that I kind of feel is I think there's a lot of people who struggle with growth, but they have no growth plan. Like, there's no, like, hey, this is where I want to go. It's like, well, I'd like to do this slow, methodical growth. And it's my belief that slow, methodical growth will get you there. But like, if you think about the biggest companies out there, like they went through a period of rapid growth. It's like, okay, I got this. I think we got this figured out. Let's go get the people, let's double down on marketing. Let's go get this thing. And I think that that's just a key lesson of like one, understanding where you want to go. Do you want to run a 50 million dollar company or do you want to run five? 50 is a whole lot different animal. And so do you want to do that? And if you do, these are the steps that you're going to have to take. And I think it's, I think they're all pretty similar because when you talk to people it's like, yeah, your company's been in business for a long time and you got there. But like there was probably a period, you know, for us it was, you know, like 2017 through 23 where like we had our explosive growth. And then, you know, it may level out, it may, you know, do whatever, but I think that that's such a key that you got to understand where you want to go and then really get clear on what you're going to have to do. Because it's not going to be easy and there's going to be some like, oh, I just wrote that check. How's that going to work? Let's figure it out on the back end type thing.

[Aaron]

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[Sammy]

And to figure out if you can do it. Most people, you know, I guess most people can't do it. And to Chad's point, it's not easy. Like, you know, you get as an outsider getting in. Yeah, I thought I was opening a plumbing company and I was going to run a couple plumbing trucks. Little did I know, you're opening a logistics business, you're opening a fleets business, you're opening a call center, you're opening dispatch. Now you got huge finance department. Like it's not easy. You got, you know, managers, service managers, you know, install managers, coordinators. Like there's a ton of shit to do and most people, they can't. Like, you know, it's so, you know, I guess be intentional about what you want to do, but also be realistic. I mean, a $5 million business is not a bad business for people, contrary to what you see online. And everybody, you know, lying about their numbers and how they went from zero to this and how much money they make and you know, all of the other good that they're, they're, they're fibbing about. But like at the end of the day, $5 million and you're in there comfortably with no stress and making 10, 15, 20%, that's great for some, most people, right. Running a 40 million or 30 million dollar company or fifth, most people aren't cut to do it. And you know, so it's not, you know, looking at what other people are doing just thinking that you could do it. It's, it's not that easy. But find your comfort zone and find where you want to go as well.

[Chris]

Yeah, I think what's interesting is Mike, you just kind of spat off all those things. You had to focus on and, and thinking about them is one thing. Understanding how to actually manage, it's a whole other thing. So you have to make sure you have people who can, you know, in order for you to scale as quickly as you did. Taking the big chunks as you did and then start adding in the different, the different trades is in the short amount of time that you did. Like, I just, I'm trying to wrap my head around how did you. I don't care if you're the best recruiter, man, like I get the people or what you need to help manage these things. But you must have been doing all this at scale at the same time. And, and that's why I'm like, the only way I can make sense of it is you can really retain information as you're learning it because you definitely go out and like you said, you spent, you know, hundreds of hours listening to podcasts. You're going to event asking the people you're, you know, and you must be really good at like, remembering your brain.

[Sammy]

I have a good memory. You know, I'll take a long story as my mom was illiterate. She couldn't read or write. She. She used to write all her phone numbers down in a phone book, but she couldn't get the phone. She couldn't get the numbers out of her phone book. So I used to be her walking phone book. She used to ask me for her phone numbers and I used to have to look in the book for it. And then at some point I just memorized all her, her, her friend's phone numbers for. So. But I would be remiss to say so, like, take a step back. So when we first started the business, I got a childhood friend that I grew up with. His name's Fatty. And he did a lot of our technology stuff and helped build systems on the wireless business. I knew we're going to get into service titan, so I tapped him. He was the first person that I kind of tapped on the shoulder. And I said, well, let's come over. I don't know. There's a gray seat that sits right in front of me. I do have a beautiful office. I haven't sat in that office since we opened Apex. I sit in this room, which is our conference room. He sits right in front of me. Been sitting right in front of me for the last four years. I call him the brains behind the operation. He went to medical school. Extremely smart dude. And he helps me out with a lot of self service, you know, building information, but also Most important thing is a great sounding board with another intelligent person across from me all day, every day to brown stuff around. I have a wonderful assistant that I brought over. She is kind of, you know, both sides of the wireless business in here. It kind of helps me stay sane on a daily basis and, you know, just a lot of great people. But yeah, to your point, like, we literally were in the call center, building operations for the call center in dispatch, building operations in the warehouse, like, literally doing all of that. There was nobody hired to come in and help do any of that. And like, you know, proudly I say, like, he had our inventory system up six months into business and. And we were working on service titan replenishments, and I went to probably any company I visited in the country, didn't have that. And we had that very early on. So it's like, you know, a lot of good stuff, but, you know, a lot of hard work, a lot of effort, a lot of research, and I quite honestly just learning a lot, retaining it. And, you know, one of my favorite business quotes is right over there on the wall. An idea is, you know, means nothing without execution. It's idea is only as good as its execution. I think a lot of people go out there, get a whole bunch of ideas and a whole little execution.

[Chris]

So is he sitting there across from you right now?

[Sammy]

No, he's not. I had to put a screen on the glass windows here, so I got an open door policy and there's two doors that walk in here, so I had to put like a screen on here and just tell everybody. I'm sure my assistants out there playing defensive, you know, linebacker, keeping everybody away right now.

[Chris]

So, like, what the hell's he doing? Hey, did I meet him down at Bard? Was he at Barty's with you?

[Sammy]

He was, yeah. Short dude with the big beard? Yes, sir. Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah, I thought so. I remember meeting him down there.

[Sammy]

He was Chad's office with me too. He visited Peterman with me too. So I remember I asked Chad one day, you know, because me, me and your boy were going, you know, at it pretty nasty here over and employees. I'm like, man, what do you think? He said, I don't give a. He said, I send every master plumber a recruiting letter every year, and I don't care if I. I'll recruit whoever I got to recruit. And I'm like, okay, I appreciate that. Good to go back, keep doing my thing. So.

[Chris]

Well, listen, you gotta. You said you care about what's in them four walls. That's what you're responsible for in the day. I get it. I'm not gonna say I haven't looked.

[Sammy]

For my one piece of advice. If people are crying about where their employees are going to one. I've had to tell this to many people. I said, stop worrying about where they're going and start worrying about why they're going. It's none of my business if they're coming here.

[Chris]

That's good.

[Sammy]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Well, listen, people. People don't leave if they love where they're at.

[Sammy]

Yes, sir.

[Chris]

Okay, so. So we. We're already like 50 minutes into this thing too. Five, zero minutes into this thing, just flying by. This has been great, man, by the way. I love this. I. I want to, you know, I want to ask just about your leadership real quick, right? Because yes, you have a superpower, you can have a good memory, but you gotta, like, you're talking about Fetty. You gotta have other leaders. Are you doing, like, regular. Like, what are the frequency of, like, your leadership meetings? Like, what do those things look like? You know, and. Because, like, if you're going into dispatch, if you're going into the warehouse, if you're going, like, what are your leadership needs? Look, like, what's the frequency? Like, what's the. That you guys are covering?

[Sammy]

I guess like two things that we started from day one that we've never dealt with, deviated till today is one is we have a tech meeting. Since we had three employees till today, whatever we have, we have a tech meeting every Tuesday at 7am and I host that meeting every single week, followed by that. I have a leadership meeting every single week right here. And we have. It's. We're kind of outgrowing every room that we've moved into. But, you know, we started out with one manager, two managers, and now every single manager that's. We run through that every single week. On Tuesday, right after the technician meeting. We do that every week. We haven't deviated from that, what whatsoever. And I think that's been a huge part of everybody just staying connected, right? And I think they all understand what's going on and what's happening with each other. And there's no divide. We started with a one team, one dream mentality, and we try to keep that same thing. So leadership meets every Tuesday, and we all sit in this room and meet. But also, you know, we're all in the same building and we don't have anybody working remote. They. They talk to each other. And I myself, I'm in here and they're in and out of here all day, every day as well. So from a leadership perspective, every Tuesday we're meeting, and we don't deviate from that plan. And the idea is it's an open meeting. We review numbers, and then we go around literally from one person to the end. I go over what I want to go over, and then everybody can air out whatever they want or talk about any of their challenges. And we work as a group to get better and understand what everybody's going through.

[Chris]

Yeah, I like that. I mean, I just wondered if, you know, how the cadence of those things, what you kind of talked about it, but. So you said you have like a set. Hey, we go over these things every meeting. But then there's this open session where everybody kind of gets going around, they can kind of bring up whatever, and.

[Sammy]

Everybody goes around and brings up whatever, what are their challenges are. And then they got 10 other people or 15 other people to have help them out with their challenges. Or if one or two managers are having a challenge about something with the fleet or with the warehouse, the fleet manager here, warehouse managers here, they can kind of chat through it, and, you know, we can come up with a good solution for the company. And as I say, man, we're like, you know, I'm all from the R and D, you know, Rob and duplicate. And, you know, I think I say we manage by committee all the time. There's no dictatorship here. Somebody got a great idea. There's a whiteboard right there in the back corner that's got, you know, hundreds of things written on it.

[Chris]

It.

[Sammy]

We just get at it and, you know, kind of get after it. When we come up with a challenge, I'm huge at documenting things. So if there is something, we're going to create an SOP for it. And then when there's something that changes on that subject, whoever's in charge of that sop, whatever department it belongs to, they're going to go back. It's a little. A living document. They're going to update it, and we're going to keep going forward.

[Chris]

Yeah, I love that's what we do here, too. I mean, I love that because then now you have somebody else taking responsibility for the. For the process, documentation, and it doesn't.

[Sammy]

Get lost down the road. Oh, we talked about this three weeks ago. Okay. What happens when we hire two new employees in the next three weeks? They're never going to hear about it. Right. So just add it to the documentation, and let's use that to live by.

[Chris]

Let me ask you One more quick question before I ask you the closing question. And, and this is going to be just around like, I feel like you carry. This is the most, like, this is like the most energy I've actually seen from you in a con like you and I've ever had in a conversation. Because you're like on one right now and I love it it because now.

[Sammy]

Ask the employee, if you come here, you'll see the real Sam. He, he runs around jumping, screaming and little rap song every once in a while. So I got too much energy, but go ahead.

[Chris]

Well, so, so I'm seeing that for me right now. And now I can kind of see like, okay, cool. I'm getting a good vibe of how your leadership style is and just how it is to, to be around you. And you know, is it, Is it? Have you always just kind of did. Being in that, in the, in the Boost Mobile world and having so much success there. You, you must have built so much confidence in that when you came into this. Like, you only thought, you thought nothing other than like, this thing is going to be incredibly successful even at when you just had your three trucks. Do you carry that confidence with you? It's like where you're just kind of willing to bet big, go big on marketing. You just believe in your own recruiting. Like, you must carry a shitload of confidence which rubs off on everybody else. But that's your leadership style, right? Like you're coming and you're, you almost influence your entire team because not only are you excited about it, you believe it it, but you also do it.

[Sammy]

Yeah. And I, and I, and I'm a hard worker and they're going to see me work hard. But yeah, I would say I exude that, but I'd say humbly, not arrogantly. Right. Like, I don't walk around pumping my chest around it, but I'm very confident in my abilities and I'm very confident in my team's abilities and what we're going to do. And like, it's not like we went out and hired a whole bunch of executives, right? It's not like we hired a C suite. It's not like I hired a whole bunch of, you know, skilled managers. If you go look at my management team, Plumbing service manager was a plumber, started here as a plumber. H vac service manager, started here as a sales guy, drain manager, started as a drain tech. So, like, all of these guys have grown within the company. And quite honestly, I took that from my last business. You know, I like to promote from within. And the amount of loyalty and company culture that you get out of those folks and just giving a damn about what the company is is unmatched. If you can get the right people in the right seat, it works out sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. But I'll say I got my two. My, my biggest weakness in business is I don't give up on people quick enough. And my greatest strength in business is I don't give up on people quick enough.

[Chris]

So, okay, so that was going to take me to my next point, but we've talked about all the great things. It's like, well, where is, like, where'd you recognize a weakness? And like, how'd you fix it? And that's actually a legit one too. That, I mean, I've certainly have had that, that, that too, you know, and. But one thing I want to piggyback off of is that I want our listeners to hear so it doesn't get like, misunderstood is you didn't just hire these people because they were the best, you know, the best drain cleaner, you know, and the team, like, they, you, they, you had to still groom them, make sure they got the right leadership capability or management capability. You didn't just take the best and promote within that way. Right?

[Sammy]

But you, you never want to take the best and promote. Right? It's, it's the one who, who is willing to run that extra call. It's the one who is willing to help out on a recall. It's the one who stays in the shop later. It's the one who is helping out another technician. It's about being a team player. I tell everybody all the time, you will be promoted on what you've done, not what you promise you'll do.

[Chris]

Before I ask my, my last question, Chad, I'm giving you one more opportunity to say anything. If not, I'm going to go into my closing question.

[Chad]

Go into your closing question.

[Chris]

Okay. Thank you for letting me rip.

[Chad]

Let it rip.

[Sammy]

Okay. Chad must be pissed off at me or something, man.

[Chad]

I'm not pissed off. Well, you. The podcast recorded yesterday, Chris did, Did a lot of talking, so I'm still coming off of, off of that. But no, I, I mean, I, I don't have, I don't have a ton to say because I feel like you're, you're doing a great job of just running with what I would eventually ask. Like, okay, what, what would this next thing be? And I think it's a lot of lot where I feel like we're wired a lot alike in that it's like, well, I'm not really curious about that. Like, I get like, from his energy, from his answer, I get what he's thinking here, so I apologize for that.

[Sammy]

But no, no, I'm just giving you.

[Chad]

Hey, I'm used to it by now.

[Sammy]

I mean, that's the most we got out of you all day. So I guess that, that worked for us anyway, Chad. So we're good.

[Chris]

Especially like any other podcast, since he doesn't make anyway. But, so that's why I got to run these things. Yeah, well, but here's what, here's what I'm, realistically, what I'm, I want to know how to close this thing out is like, you've done a lot in a little amount, a little bit amount of time. So, like, you got a hell of a hell of a start here. And you love doing this, clearly. Like, so, so what are you trying, like, what are you trying to do with this thing? Are you trying to build this thing to a certain number? Are you trying, like, is there, what's the ultimate motivator for what you're trying to. You and me are the same age. I'm a little older than you because I turned 46 today. But, but you're gonna be here at the end of the year. Yeah, but what are you trying to do with this thing? Like, what is the next phase? Or what are you trying to get to, Sammy?

[Sammy]

That's a good question. Honestly, I, I, I just, I don't, I don't know. I don't aspire. Like, I'm not the guy who goes out and aspires and dreams, Right. I think I'm the guy who just puts his head down and works and, and understands that you're gonna, you know, reap the fruits of your own, you know, labor. So what am I trying to do with it? You know, if you would have told me a couple years ago, 30 million dollar company, I'd been happy with that. Right? You start getting closer to 50. Okay, let's hit 50. The next number will be, let's try to get the, you know, 75, you know, so I don't, like, there's no, like, extreme long term goals. Like, I'm young, right? I'm having fun. I enjoy coming to work every day. I got some young kids. One of them's graduating from OSU this weekend and with his degree in business, I got, you know, I got six kids, but I got two older boys that, that work in a business. I got a daughter who just graduated from Columbus School of art and design. She actually helps with a lot of our design stuff. So, like, I enjoy it. My family's around me. I got a nephew in dispatch, you know, I got a nephew in plumbing. I got a nephew in, you know, electric that are learning the business. So I enjoy what I do. I enjoy coming to work. To answer your question, I don't know, like, do I have, you know, I've had some good success in life. Do I have the energy to go to Cleveland, Cincinnati, come find, come compete with Chad and you know, Indianapolis? That's kind of what I did with the wireless business. I don't know. Like, I am sneaking down to Dayton. So I just signed a lease in Dayton, Ohio and got a couple texts in Dayton, Ohio as well. So I'm gonna get ready to expand to that market. But outside of that, what do I do? I'm from Cleveland. Maybe I'll go up to Cleveland. Maybe I'll just be content with Columbus and Dayton. I don't know. So I guess to answer your question, long term, what do I want to do? I'm not really thinking that long term. I'm just enjoying the moment, to be honest with you.

[Chris]

Just gonna take the ride.

[Sammy]

Yeah. And enjoying the ride. So, you know, I've, you know, I've had some, you know, decent success in life. So it's not like, you know, obviously for anybody, you know, money is a motivating factor. But for me, successive, more success is more of a motivating factor for me. So I'm not just chasing, chasing the money. And it's, you know, that's not what I'm doing it for. Ultimately, at the end of the day, that's the end goal. But, you know, doing it, you know, success and growing and competing and, you know, opening a new market and, you know, adding on different verticals and, you know, that adventure. I again, I got, you know, hyper adhd. Like, I can't just sit still with a business that's humming along. Right. Like, I like to grow and I like to, to be involved and I like to have some challenges. So I don't know what that long term answer is.

[Chad]

Yeah, I don't, I don't think you need it. And I think probably, if I had to guess, that's been an ingredient to your success, is that you, you do enjoy what you're building? You know, people ask me all the time like, well, what's the end goal? What are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. Like, I just like coming in tomorrow and figuring out what problems we have and let's go solve it. That's kind of what I'm passionate about. And you know, to me, if you focus on that, if you take care of your people, like, the end result will come. That doesn't have to be the focus every single day. If it is, you'll probably drive yourself insane and you won't focus on the right things.

[Sammy]

Yeah, and I don't want to be caught chasing a budget, you know, and having some number hanging over my head that I need to go aggressively beat up my manager for and give. Like, if, like, we're extremely numbers driven, right. And I. We're looking at numbers. Every week, we're looking at numbers. But you won't find anybody in this company that tells you a manager or a technician that they're getting beat up over numbers. So it's like, I like the fact that I don't have to have that pressure on my back. You know, I know everybody. The, the new mold is to go sell to a P.E. and then, you know, go have a whole bunch of pressure on your neck. Like, I don't. Like, I enjoy doing what I'm doing. And, and if we have a bad month, guess what? Maybe we just had a bad month. Like, let's figure out what was wrong and get better. So, thankfully, we have not had many bad months, but, like, you know, we're. We're moving and grooving in the right direction and just having fun at it. You know, we're. We're pacing, you know, a million dollars over goal this month. So it's like, you know, we're. We're having fun and everybody's doing a good job. And I don't, I don't want to think long term. I don't want to put that pressure, and I don't want to be forced to have to make decisions that aren't good for the business just because I have some type of arbitrary number or goal or timeline on my neck. Just go out there, do what you do, follow the process. And like Chad said, the end result will take, you know, if you focus on a process and a path, you don't necessarily have to focus on the goal. Right. Just like next, start with the service system, go focus on this service agenda, and most likely the outcome will be good. Right. But once you start going, as I tell my guys all day, you. You start focusing on, you need to get a $5,000 sale, fail. Most of the time, you're going to fail at that. Right? Because you're not, you're not believing in a process. You're not doing it for the right reason.

[Chris]

So, dude, man, thanks for letting us share your story.

[Sammy]

I appreciate you, brother.

[Chris]

This was awesome, man. Like, it was actually everything I hoped it would be. And really you just kind of went. You were on one. And I feel like we just got. We were basically sitting in meetings with Sammy. We're just sitting here being led by Sammy. I mean, clearly, clearly whatever you're doing is working. So here's my advice to you. Keep doing that.

[Sammy]

And again, I would be remiss if I. For, for anybody who's listening, you can go out there and listen to this podcast or go back as far as you want and listen to success stories and actually take something from there and understand them and do something with it, right? Do something with the information. Like, even compared to a wireless business, in a wireless business you don't have these type of resources. You would think it's a technology you, but you don't have these type of re. Like the path has already been paved for you. Just go out there, listen to what the guys that have already done it are doing it. Stay away from all the flashy on Facebook and I mean, those chats are. Are trash these days, in my opinion. But go back and, and do a deep dive into a lot of that stuff and just go listen to the podcast and like pick a couple things and just focus on them and move forward. Like business is business. Need to focus on marketing, need to focus on taking care of people and need to focus on fulfilling those sales. Like those are the three things. If you can, you can nail those, you can keep nailing it. So not. Not too sophisticated.

[Chris]

Pretty straightforward.

[Sammy]

Yep.

[Chris]

Well, listen, man, I went over and I apologize for going over if you guys. I thought it was worth it to get into some of those things. So I appreciate you hanging on with me. Listen, Sammy, I love being able to be a little teeny tiny part of your journey by you listening to this podcast and us being able to. You be a marketing company for you and but us being friends, dude. And it's fun, man. It's fun to watch you like win. I enjoy those things. Like I said, chill, Chad. The same thing is like I love watching Chad win. I love being able to, you know, do being business with him in the roofing company. And like half. Half the fun is just doing it and figuring the out a long way at this point. Like the byproduct will be the business scaling and growing, but we're just kind of focused on like hey, here. We're just trying to get from this thing to here to here and figure out all the moving parts. Like, it's fun. I'm enjoying it. Like, the. The journey is the destination.

[Sammy]

Yes, sir.

[Chris]

Appreciate you, dude, man, thanks for giving us time.

[Sammy]

Appreciate you having me on. It's an honor. And, you know, for someplace that I learned a lot from, it's appreciate you giving back and all of the stuff that you do and all the guests that you bring on, and hopefully somebody can have a little bit of benefit. And if they take one or two nuggets from here, then I've done my job and I've given back to all of the, you know, priceless benefits that I've benefited from. So.

[Chris]

So I love it, man. I appreciate that so much. Well, you heard him, listeners. Like, you know, he. He. Listen, half the battle is, you know, just focusing on your sales, focus on your people, you know, focus on your marketing, like some of these simple things, you know, and take, you know, take his advice. Listen to these podcasts, you know, but actually what he said that the saying was on his wall, but, like, the idea is only as good as execution or something like that.

[Sammy]

Like, yes, sir.

[Chris]

Listen to it, take the time, you know, make the notes and actually go do something with it. And you can't figure your out. Reach out to somebody, go to some shop, cops, visit them, do whatever. So. But that's a lot of. You don't got to do everything, but you got to do something. Sammy, you want to close it out for us? You know what the last thing I'm going to say is?

[Sammy]

No zero days.

[Chris]

No zero days.