← To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
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- [00:02]
A
This is to the Point a Rhino experience voted one of the top home services, marketing and operations podcasts. Cutting through the. And getting to the point.
- [00:18]
B
Hey, what's up to the Point, listeners? It's your boy, Chris. Exciting episode today only because Chad joined us again because he has been skipping out on a few. He skipped out on the last one.
- [00:30]
C
Did I?
- [00:31]
B
Yeah, you did. Well, to be fair. To be fair, I knew you couldn't make it, and we kept it, so.
- [00:36]
A
Oh, okay.
- [00:37]
C
I appreciate that. Yeah.
- [00:38]
B
So I only I didn't bust your chops too much, but, dude, you're looking good. You got a little fresh fade there. What do you got? You got something special going on tonight or what?
- [00:45]
C
No, no, nothing special. Just a little business dinner. So that's good. But, yeah, all good. Wait for the Halloween Friday.
- [00:56]
B
All right. That's right, it's coming up. I guess by the time this episode rolls out, we'll have passed, so hopefully everybody had a good time at Halloween. Yeah, I. I don't know if you know, I'm trying to hide my butt chin with the microphone because I shaved off the goatee a little bit on accident, so now it's like, butt chin really sticks out.
- [01:16]
A
I'm sorry.
- [01:17]
C
Tom Brady's got one. You're good.
- [01:21]
B
And we're pretty close.
- [01:22]
A
Yeah.
- [01:23]
C
Basically the same person.
- [01:24]
B
Basically the same person. All right, well, I'm definitely starting off on a good note here. I apologize, Ty, for coming to the show, but I excited to have you on the podcast, but we got Ty Wickstrom from Wickstrom Plum and heating cooling up in Boise, Idaho. Some of the voices State. Oh, that's where you went to school, right? You went to Boise's day, right?
- [01:45]
A
Yep, yep. Blue turf. Bleed blue.
- [01:48]
B
The home previously of Ashengen of Ashton Genty, who is what I believe is the highest drafted football player out of Boise State. Oh, by far. Yeah, had to be. Okay.
- [02:01]
A
Yep. By far. It's gonna be a while. Well.
- [02:07]
B
We'Re Purdue fans. Okay. So we feel you, but it's. I'm glad to have you on here. Also. Get. You got to work with. You know, you get to work with Chad, with. Can't stop the growth and, And. And do some coaching with. With. With Chad. And. And so you guys already knew each other, which is. Which is great. And, and you and I got to spend some time, you know, talking and getting to know one another and me learning a little bit about your business. So I'm kind of excited to share the story with our listeners. Your. Your entry into the business Was unique, which always makes these stories kind of fun because you were, I think, going to school for accounting.
- [02:42]
A
That's correct.
- [02:43]
B
You had to make a hard pivot, you know, into the, into the home services space. But you know, there's one thing I didn't ask you during prep. I'm going to ask you during this. And it's around your. It's about your mom and what she was doing and kind of her strengths. I'm curious to see like what, what that was. But the, this particular episode will be fun because whenever you came into the business, it was like a million bucks. It was like a million dollar business. Multi trade, by the way, still multi trade. About a million dollars. And that was back in, in 19.
- [03:14]
C
Right.
- [03:14]
B
I think you were 26, 27 years old, somewhere around there.
- [03:17]
A
Yep. Yep.
- [03:19]
B
But the business actually started in 1992. So from 1992 to 2019, this business is a million dollars. Not a lot of progress happening in that time frame.
- [03:35]
A
Yep.
- [03:35]
B
So.
- [03:36]
C
Yep.
- [03:37]
B
We didn't get to talk too much about that Chunky. So but, but maybe what we do is, you know, and just kind of high level a little bit. I want, I want to, to, to dig into like some of the, the path that you went through because as the business it's today it's roughly $11 million. You know. And by the way, Boise is a fantastic market. You and I talked about it. I had a lot of success in that market with a one and there's a lot of room to grow up there. And you have aspirations. Kind of hit that 16, 17, 18 million dollar mark in 2026. And I'm, and I want to just talk a little bit about kind of your, your 2019-2025 journey and then we'll kind of hit on. Yeah. You know how you like what your plan is to hit that 16 to 18. So you ready to roll?
- [04:23]
A
I'm ready to roll. Let's do it.
- [04:25]
B
Cool. All right, so maybe let's just go ahead and start there. You're, you know, take us to take us 2019, you're 27 years old, you're studying accounting. Your mom passes away from cancer, which when we talked about it, it was. You had a little bit of time to prepare for it. Thankfully, you know, a shitty situation. But at least you had some time to prepare for it.
- [04:45]
A
Absolutely.
- [04:46]
B
You didn't plan to run an H VAC and plumbing company. What was the. So maybe just talk to me like what was that? I mean, talk about that, that hard pivot that you had to make from, you know, going in from Boise State into accounting, you still got three credits left. You still got time to get that degree, man.
- [05:07]
A
One day.
- [05:08]
B
One day you're right there. Three credits.
- [05:13]
C
Yeah.
- [05:14]
B
Get there, man. I don't know how long that lasts, but you should probably get on top of that before you really regret it.
- [05:20]
A
Yeah, I just, I just talked to them like last week actually, and they're like, oh, you're still good. I'm like, okay, just checking in. They added a few extra classes, though, like gender studies or something and. Yeah.
- [05:33]
B
Well, listen, in a roundabout way, yeah, it was helpful that your time there is helpful in the business. Obviously, knowing, understanding your numbers is pretty important and accounting is pretty important. So maybe just go ahead and share. Okay. You, you know, you're, you're, you, you step into this business, you're 27 years old. You know, you, you know, you've not led people. You've not done, like, get, maybe explain to us like that, you know, that, you know, that progression for you.
- [05:59]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [06:00]
B
I mean, take you back to that moment. The, oh moment. Like, this is really happening. I gotta, I gotta do something here.
- [06:08]
A
Oh, man. Well, I mean, like you said, we are multi trade at a million dollars. So we got one guy that does H vac and plumbing. He's a rock star. He's still here, by the way. He's my cousin. And then I think we had two more plumbers and maybe another H vac guy when I, when I took over. My brother was one of them and then my brother from another mother was another one. So, you know, obviously a lot of family and stuff inside the business. And my dad, you know, of course stepped out. You just immediately exited, you know, and luckily trusted me enough to. To take over and do some things. So I think one of the first things that I attacked was just, I don't know what I'm doing. Right? I don't know what I'm doing. So I went out and got in as many best practice groups as I could. I'm sure you guys talked about the NER guys. Those guys are awesome. Went and toured their place. Ended up touring a lot of nexstar places, but couldn't get in, unfortunately to nextstar at the time because our market was full. We actually just became members like two months ago too. But yeah, just realized I didn't know anything. It was time to go learn and implement changes. And picked up the book Extreme Ownership by Jocko. You guys talked about it before, I know, on the show. And that book changed my life. Honestly, and, you know, there's no excuses. You got to take everything as it is and. And find solutions ultimately. Right. You just got to find some solutions. So, yeah, we. I was stubborn and I kept with three trades. I wouldn't recommend that I would go with 1 to 10 million. If I did it again, I would go to 20 million with one, honestly. But we stuck with it. We did three trades and we played off of each other. Right. We do a lot of cross selling. We do a lot of lead setting in the home, and we used each other to build the whole platform up to where we are today at 10 million. But I don't know, that's kind of the gist of how we got started, really.
- [08:29]
B
Yeah. And you're trying to come in and lead people too, like, and earn respect and like all these things. Did you do because you had some time to prepare for this? Assuming. I'm not sure what that actually looked like. But you did you. Like before you actually came in, were you. Were you going in and I mean, you pretty much. You had to have known every. I'm guessing you knew everybody because some of them were family, like half, you know, I guess half of it was family.
- [08:53]
A
Yeah.
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B
So did you have to. I mean, did you. What was your mom's role at this time? I mean, was she. Was she. I don't know. What type. What type of cancer did your mom have?
- [09:05]
A
Breast cancer.
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B
Okay, so the. What was her role in this and helping you prepare for it?
- [09:14]
A
Oh, it's such a great question, you know. So to your point, I got to prepare for it and she got to prepare me for it for about a year. We do about new for about a year. And I'll be honest, it was really tough. I don't know if you've been around people that go through cancer. They're not necessarily the nicest people when they're going through that stuff and the treatment and everything. But I just sat next to her and learned everything she did. And what she did was she ran the company, essentially. My dad's a big dreamer. Huge dreamer. Super smart, technically amazing, like master at plumbing and H vac, but she was the operations brain, you know, she was the one that kept the lights on. She's the one that kept payroll taxes, made decisions on anything really. So I just sat next to her and learned and tried not to suggest changes during the time. And yeah, it prepared me for the day it came when I was like, okay, this is me. I'm doing this, you know.
- [10:15]
C
Ty, what would you say were some of the things, like thinking back, like, unbelievable story to go from a million to 10 in such a short amount of time. Like what would you say were like those things like you know, within the first year that you knew that, like, okay, we need to fix this and fix this and get this right in order to, to grow this thing. Like if you can think back on, because I imagine there's some listeners out there like, oh yeah, I'm around a million, $2 million. I'd really like to get to 10 someday. Like, where the hell do I start?
- [10:47]
A
Great question, great question. Number one, sales process. Sales process, huge. Really documenting and be able to train what that is at least like a simple five step process, you know, program and then a great software that you can, you know, collect customer information in and be able to market out of like service Titan, you know. And I would say finding the right people, right? Just recruit, always, always be recruiting, constantly, never stop. The, the thing is, is that people are gonna hit caps in your business, right? And we don't want them to. Obviously we want to come with us the whole way, but we, we have to find the right people in the right seats to fill those spots and keep moving things forward. And there's caps at 2 million, there's a cap at 5, you know, and we felt a lot of pressure here in the last like two years, you know, last year for more change, right? So it's, it really revolves around the right people because I guess even if you had the right process, you need good people, right?
- [12:03]
B
You, you made a critical error along the way that a lot make, by the way. And you know, one, you're scaling this thing or growing this thing. You need to have good leadership, right? Like, you can't, you know, you really, you can't do everything at a hundred percent. Like, so you can start to need to fill the gaps with where you, you know, where you need the help. And you made one of those common mistakes of just putting the technician into management roles when they weren't managers or prepared to, to manage people. Some people, some of the people listening right now are in that situation as we speak and cringing as we, as we're talking about this. But you've been through it.
- [12:52]
C
Some of the people on the podcast, so welcome to the, to the fun.
- [12:59]
B
Let's talk. So since it was painful, let's talk about it, let's relive that moment. But maybe let's just hit on like, you know, you're, you did it because you thought it was what's best, but you didn't know any better until you did it and learned like, okay, these people weren't prepared, or did you know better and you did it anyway?
- [13:20]
C
Like, where would.
- [13:20]
B
Okay, good. Hey, listen, desperate times call for desperate measures. Then maybe just talk through that situation. Like, you know, when did you, how did you realize, like, oh, I made a bad mistake? Just because you're a great technician doesn't mean you're a great manager. By the way, we've all made these mistakes too. I just don't have technicians in my business, but you. But the thought was, they're really, really good at their job. They're gonna be really good at, you know, leading others to do this job. Great. But there's a different skill set when you're leading a human being or managing human being. So let's talk through that. What did you, when did you realize, like, oh, shit, I, I, I think I made a bad call.
- [13:58]
A
Oh, man.
- [14:00]
B
Like, what were, what was happening in the business when that person was in that role? That made you think, okay, I think, I think I messed up.
- [14:06]
A
I think, I think other people have said this in many books and on this podcast, like you said, when, when you hit the moment that you realize that, oh, no, I'm micromanaging somebody, right? I'm, I'm telling them what to do on a daily basis. That's when you know that, oh, well, I mean, I didn't know at the time, but I had a feeling that, okay, this is not the way. Of course. This is the only thing I've ever done in my life. I've never had another job. Crazy story. I've never had another job. It's only one. So big eye opening thing for me. But if you're micromanaging somebody, you know, to the point where, okay, you got to put this KPI here, you got to go read this book. We have to execute this process is the fourth time I told you, we got to do this process this way. This is how you do payroll, you know, or improve this. It's like, okay, probably not their skill set, right? Probably not their skill set. And it is a different skill set, right? You can be an amazing technician and be a terrible manager. Just like the obvious. Like, you could be an amazing manager and you are a terrible technician. Like, like me, I would suck at being a technician, right?
- [15:21]
B
No way. Hey, question for you real quick. In high school, did you play sports or anything like that?
- [15:29]
A
Yeah, football, baseball? Yep.
- [15:31]
B
Okay, so you weren't like Chad and in the glee club?
- [15:34]
A
No, it was a student Council though.
- [15:38]
B
Stuka, that was one of those. Okay, so you played, you played football. Okay, where did you. Well, I guess what I'm getting to is were you ever in a position like in sports, like where you were like, were you a captain or a leader or anybody that was on that team where you just kind of like I'm. Did you have that leadership capability or did you like, do you have that in you? Because you can have it and not know it too. But like, did you have that when you're kind of in sports and stuff like that where you feel like, cool, man. I definitely can like leader influence people.
- [16:07]
D
You're spending thousands to make the phone ring, but if your CSRs aren't picking up or converting, you might as well light it on fire. And what are the largest businesses in the country doing about this? They use Avoca, the leading AI platform in the trades. Hundred million dollar businesses like H.L. bowman are operating with only nine CSRs because Avoca handles up to 80% of the calls. Plus Avoca follows up with your leads, grades your CSR calls and helps you strategize.
- [16:38]
B
So my suggestion, go with the leading company.
- [16:42]
D
Check out Avoca AI. That's A, B, O, C, A. I click the link below. Attention to the point listeners. Branding has never been more important. Is your brand in serious need of an upgrade?
- [16:56]
B
Do you have a new company and.
- [16:57]
D
Need a new brand but don't want to wait six months or pay a ridiculous amount to get it done? If your brand looks like everyone else's.
- [17:04]
B
Well, guess what, you are everyone else.
- [17:06]
D
But Prolific, they build brands that dominate from the first Google search to the driveway. Prolific Brand Design can help you be.
- [17:15]
B
More of you because you are the.
- [17:18]
D
Unique difference that sets you apart from all your competitors. So let's be real for a second. Your brand is either winning new customers or costing you money. Just ask some of our clients like Ken Goodrich, Ishmael Valdez, my boy Chad Peterman, and even myself, Olific Brand design is the creative pros behind some of the best home services, logos, truck wraps, websites, and now email marketing campaigns. Wouldn't you love it if your email marketing open rates were 30, 40, 50%? And don't go into the spam folder. Hell, that's how we roll at Prolific. So check them out at prolific brand design.com and ask for the to the point promo. Prolific Brand Design.
- [18:01]
B
Be more of you. Be prolific.
- [18:04]
A
Yeah, I guess, I guess I was. I was, I was the captain at my varsity year of a few games. Quite a few games that we played. Yeah. Yeah.
- [18:14]
B
Okay. So you have a little bit. So you can recognize it. Like, just, you know, just because. Forget the. The business. Whatever. Whatever type of business, but you can recognize it. Okay. So your way of recognizing was like, I don't think. I don't think your leaders need to be micromanaged like this. Like, I should be every single day trying to tell them what to do. Okay, so what do you do?
- [18:33]
D
You.
- [18:34]
B
You just keep letting it go. Like, when do you start to make that change?
- [18:37]
A
Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, we can all say pissing.
- [18:41]
B
Them off or make it, you know, like. Because there's a risk of losing somebody if you tried to, you know, dem. You know, Demote them or just sound like. Or change them. Like, what. What was that process?
- [18:50]
A
And I think that's the fear that, like, there's probably people listening right now that are in that position right now, right? And they're probably thinking, man, if I demote them, like, they're going to take my other people. They're going to, you know, throw a rage, you know, and quit and. And ruin my business. You know? And the thing is, if you've created a good culture in your business and you really are, like, connected with those people, they're gonna move down just fine. And you need to. You need to make that move. Right? You need to make that move now before the culture does get out of control like you were. You're kind of leading to what happened. There was an event that happened here, and I let it go for too long. I don't know if I need to get into it just yet, but, yeah, I let it go for too long. Don't.
- [19:38]
B
Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna hit on that part a little bit later. But I. I was leading up to it. Yes. So you're aware.
- [19:47]
C
But I think, Ty, you make a great point. I think it's. You know, what I've seen is if you cast a big enough vision for your team to get on board with, most of them will realize it probably far sooner than you do. And there's this, like, pole between them of not wanting to let you down, but then also in the back of their mind, knowing, I can barely lead five and he wants me to have 20. There is no possible way. And so we've had some that have went bad, but we've also had some where you, like, either you go to the person or they come to you and say, hey, man, this ain't my gig. Like, can I just go back out and, like, sell stuff or Go back out and be a technician. Like, I, like, I want to help you and I want to be part of this, but I don't think this is my role. And I think that that's, that's key when in a leadership role is letting people know where you're headed. Like, hey, man, if you want to take this on, this is what it's going to look like in short order. So are you ready for. Maybe you may be ready for today, but we're going to be, you know, three years down the road. It's going to look a whole lot different, right?
- [20:52]
A
Yeah. Can't see it better than that. If you just put that in front of them and ask him, what do you think about this? And they're like, ooh, I don't know about that. It's like, okay, yeah, there's. That, there's the writing.
- [21:02]
B
You have to be. You have to make it a comfortable environment for them too, to also back out. Right. And it not feel like it's a negative for them to, like, we think about it from, like, oh, I don't want to piss them off, but we also got to make it comfortable for them to say, hey, like, maybe this isn't without, you know, like, maybe this isn't for me. Without it like them being afraid that you're going to think less of them or, you know, like. So I think that's another part of, of the, of the formula is creating that kind of environment for them.
- [21:29]
A
Absolutely.
- [21:30]
B
And. And because we. You kind of alluded to it a little bit, you know, as you're going through the business a little bit, I mean, in 23 or 24, was this 24, when you had. There's like three quarters of your plumbers, like 24 hours, 24. Okay. They walked out. I'm kind of jumping ahead a little bit, but it kind of ties into this. You had three quarters of your plumbers leave. That's a problem. That's a major problem. And, and whenever you and I were talking about it, I was asking like, why did they leave? Nobody leaves. If they're, if they're, if somebody loves their job, they're happy. They're not, they're not leaving unless they get offered, like, you know, some, like some ridiculous compensation to make a shift or a change or whatever. And then they had people follow them, which is always like the gut wrenching part. You have one person leaving. If they have influence, people will go with them. And unfortunately, it happened to you and maybe talk about the situation. Did you see it coming Was it kind of like, did you just happen off the bat and then like, and then, and then let's. Second part of that is, how'd you recover?
- [22:30]
A
Oh, man, I think that's the frustrating thing is that like, yes, I, I saw it coming and I just didn't take action early enough. Right. I don't know how you couldn't see that coming if you're like really ingrained in your business enough. But really, you know, it's my fault. Ultimately the whole thing is my fault. Like, yeah, it was a better offer, but I mean we, we tout that we pay the best in our area and we do now we've fixed that. We, we do. We're the highest paying in the area and we could have changed that. I could have changed that during that time. So it's 100% on me. And man, it was brutal. It was a big learning lesson for myself and I hope a lot of people can avoid that by taking action earlier, changing the pay, changing leadership positions underneath you and mid level managers.
- [23:27]
B
So you lost all these people and then you have, you know, you, you obviously it hurts revenue at the same time. Now you got to start like getting on top of it and finding more people. But I think what one thing you told me was, I asked you early on, you know, on, when we were talking on the phone before this, like, when was it that you realized like, was really starting to take off? And then you had said, hey man, the one thing we got really good at was we started recruiting. So you started getting talent when this thing started to take off. And that was, I think that was, and that was maybe like one of the first moments when you're kind of like, okay, like we're starting to really move in this business and grow a little bit. So you got good at recruiting. Clearly you have good recruiting. I'm assuming you still do great at recruiting. The lesson learned in this thing is like, you could have done something and you, and you didn't. And so the worst thing you can do is not take something away from that and fix it so it don't happen again. And now you're, you know, I have the highest paid technician, so clearly you've done something. You've implemented a new process for it or whatever to keep your good, to keep good talent. You felt the pain of those people leaving and the loss of revenue and probably some hit to the culture a little bit. Maybe not. Maybe, maybe not. But usually, you know, group people leave. People are like, oh, what's going on? But if you're a small business like that. They probably already know, but you. So, like, what. How do you. How'd you. How'd you. Course correct, man. Like, what'd you do, man?
- [24:51]
A
We, we bootstrapped it with, with two guys left. And um, crazy story. Somehow we ended up doing the same amount of revenue with those two guys in two of the months than we did with the other four whatever people there. It was nuts. But it was a big eye opener, what we're capable of. Right. But we just started, you know, recruiting again, this time for management level and, and technicians. And we got a guy in place who's just a rock star. And we've been smoking goals for months ever since I passed the baton off to him back in January. But we backfilled with just amazing people, better people for the culture. We just had all Hands meeting this morning and it's just reviving, like, it's, it's an amazing culture now. We've, we've 180it and I've put a lot more focus into who we're hiring, who those people are. Not just recruiting to recruit. Right. Like picking the right people. And it's paid dividends since then.
- [25:56]
C
Do you feel like that's kind of galvanized the people that are there? I feel like sometimes, like we, we all fear like that bad thing that's going to happen, but at the end of the day, the bad thing is ultimately what propels us to the next level because we've learned so much, it's galvanized the culture. Like, what would you say that that did for, like, you said you're, you're rolling right now. Like, would you say that that was a piece of it?
- [26:19]
A
Yeah, it put a chip on a lot of people's shoulders here and like, just pushed them to like, prove that, like, you can't touch us. Like, we can do this. We're gonna, we're gonna keep changing and moving forward and improving people's careers in the trades and making it, making an impact here in the community. And it really propelled us forward, honestly. Yeah, it's awesome.
- [26:43]
D
Use.
- [26:44]
B
Okay, so you mentioned earlier that you put your great software in place. I'm assuming you're talking about Service Titan, since that's what you use. I'm assuming that was it. Now in you, you mentioned, like, leveraging as much of that as you could to the forms that you would put in there, making sure that you're capturing the right information. Like, I mean, first off, implementing Service Titan is already a heavy lift when you're Wearing multiple hats. And the onboarding process is a bit cumbersome sometimes. But what did you, what was it in there that you started? Because there's so many things that you can, you can pay attention to. There's also so many things that you can miss in there. But, like, what were you doing that you just said, okay, cool. As long as I nail this part of Service Titan, I can continue to scale and grow this thing? Like, were there some, like, initial things that you just focused on, you know, to make sure you, you felt really good about that tool?
- [27:37]
A
Yeah, it's a good, it's a great question. Memberships, you know, being able to build those in and offer them every call. I mean, absolutely. And then forms, like you said, forms. And we're super hardcore about our forms nowadays. And our, we could, we call it a 360 evaluation in the home. That way we can see what our technicians are doing. We, I mean, we have real, we use it, but like, really, when it comes down to it, we can see everything through those forms and doing a ride along with somebody. And you can see clearly when somebody has really good 360forms super filled out versus somebody that maybe doesn't, their performance is like, very, very different. So the forms were the first things. And putting our whole process into the form. So it's a checklist. Because we ask so much of our darn technicians, you know, we ask them to remember so much in the home. You got to give them a checklist to follow. Well, they're going to forget stuff. I mean, you just can't remember everything. Right?
- [28:49]
B
Sure.
- [28:52]
A
They're doing a lot.
- [28:55]
B
I, I, I'm gonna, I really want, I remember before I got distracted by the tugboat going by Chad's house, what I was gonna ask, and if you had said, and then we could go, and then we'd go back for, to you. But I want to forget this. You said in passing that we had two people and we really did the same amount of revenue as the people you lost. There was something wrong there. Like, what did you, how. Because you must have clearly caught something in that process. Like, well, why did that happen? Because that shouldn't work out that way.
- [29:26]
A
Like, oh, man. Yeah. I mean, our guys were doing, and I was complaining about before, but our guys were doing what, eight jobs a day. These are plumbers, you know, eight jobs a day. Marketing is just doing as much as we can to keep up with it. Right. To feed that demand, you got six people doing eight jobs a day. Like, you're just cranking through stuff. Our plumbers today do three jobs a day, some mostly two jobs a day. And they are capitalizing on every single job to the fullest extent at this point. So that's what we changed.
- [30:01]
C
Less is more. I feel like anytime I hear somebody going, yeah, we're running. You know, our guys are running eight jobs.
- [30:08]
B
Like, think about it.
- [30:10]
C
Could you really be productive going to. Into eight different homes, presenting options like, no, you're not.
- [30:16]
B
There's no.
- [30:16]
C
There's not enough hours in the day.
- [30:20]
B
Getting speeding tickets.
- [30:22]
C
Yeah, no kidding. Well, and like, how tiring is that to start a new relationship with eight different people in one day? Like, I don't like my sales guys on the H VAC side running more than about two, maybe three jobs because it's exhausting. Like, if you're really doing what you should be doing and providing the level of service, you can't do that much work. It's not possible. I don't. I'm a believer. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but I feel like that would be very difficult.
- [30:55]
A
You're mostly driving at that point. Yeah.
- [30:59]
B
That'S an exhausting stint. Eight jobs a day. Screw that. Lord.
- [31:04]
A
Yeah.
- [31:06]
B
You think about you. I mean, if you ever. I don't know if you've ever done, like, any speaking engagements or anything like that too. It sounds so weird, but, like, if you go and Chad, you'll be able to relate to this dude. If you go and like, do a keynote or something like that, or even if it's a breakout session that you're just speaking in, you're exhausted after that and all you're doing is talking, but you're exhausted after that. Going in, like, having to do that eight times a day. Going and having conversation like, oh, man, that alone seems exhausting to me.
- [31:33]
A
It was. It was. It was exhausting for marketing, too. That's a lot of leads to supply. That's a lot. Yeah.
- [31:40]
B
So. So then that's actually a great pivot because you didn't really start marketing until 2022, I think, is what you told me. Is that right? Yeah.
- [31:48]
A
I mean, Covid. Right. Didn't really have to.
- [31:51]
B
True. Yeah. So you had to go from being an order taker back to creating some. Some orders, and you started marketing in 2022. So I'm guessing that's the why, like, why you did it. But then what. What changed then? Did you. Now you're an analytical guy because you came from the accounting, so you're wanting to be an accountant. So clearly you've got to be good with numbers. So I'm sure you're probably good at least at paying attention to the whole marketing funnel. So. But like, what is it that you know when in 2022 you start marketing? We know why. Because, you know, Covid started to, you know, the, the lead volume's falling off. Now you got to get competitive again and go get stuff. But, like, what, what changed when you did that? Like, were you. Were you the one that was overseeing that? Was somebody else doing it for you? Did you go, like, maybe talk, talk through that phase?
- [32:43]
E
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- [33:32]
D
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- [34:15]
A
Yeah, great. Great question. Luckily, from the beginning, I brought in one of my friends and he had experience in the corporate world and he. I brought him into CSR and he eventually became the call center manager. And he's. He was laser focused on call booking rates this whole time. So that was number one. Like, we already had that in place. So we were good there. I'll talk about one KPI to watch on that. That actually, Chad saved my butt. My bacon on it about four months ago. Oh yeah, thank you. But you know, call booking rates was huge for us to lock those down, make sure and get every lead coming in. But yeah, that's when we turned on Branding. We started owning certain radio stations until we moved on to the next one and you know, Valpak, stuff like that.
- [35:10]
B
Chad, I bet you. Well, Chad. Chad hates to talk about CSRs and booking rates and all that stuff, so I don't know what kind of he would have given you on that. No, least favorite topic.
- [35:22]
C
I've been standing on that soapbox for a couple years now. Mainly because, mainly because we needed to improve. So I figured if I yelled loud enough, someone in our own building may hear us.
- [35:33]
A
It's a good tactic.
- [35:36]
B
Did you have any like anything in particular that you guys are putting out there that worked better than the other? I mean, plumbing or whatever? Like just off the top of your head, is there anything that stands out to you? I'm always just curious. Obviously I'm a marketing guy, so I'm curious to hear what it is.
- [35:47]
A
We haven't figured out direct mail plumbing yet quite yet. But you know, low cost tune ups on the H VAC side is a great way that we've been able to bring in new customers, get them on the maintenance plan, get them into the indoor system and make it so we can start nurturing them with texts and email and direct mail with like Marketing Pro and stuff. But you know, our main engine is plumbing. So we just basically made all of our messaging around plumbing. And that's our main way that we do bring in customers through the door is get them in on the membership on a plumbing visit, you know, then we get them on the H VAC side and get out there and service them and blow their minds. So. Yeah.
- [36:31]
B
How many memberships do you have roughly?
- [36:34]
A
I think we should have a lot more. I think we've got about 1800 at this point. Yeah.
- [36:40]
B
Are you, are you doing like email marketing to them?
- [36:43]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [36:44]
C
Okay, cool.
- [36:45]
B
Yeah, you need to keep working that system because I know so many people that like, just think like, oh, they're maintenance customers so they'll never look outside of our business. They're already paying us. Completely not true.
- [36:55]
A
Yep, yep.
- [36:56]
B
There's a cost to keeping your members.
- [36:59]
A
100. 100. And look at tagging them too in our system. So we know what's over 10 years old in the furnace, over 8 in the ACE on the water heater, waterline leaks. Great. Poly galvanized pipe, yada yada yada. We'll like hit them with personalized messaging through direct mail, email and text when we need it, you know.
- [37:23]
B
Got it. So you, you mentioned earlier too that when you're talking about sales process, because you didn't have one or, or you had a very poor one, if that. What, like, what was it? How did you. Well, first off, you recognize it. What did you do to like to get it squared away, to get it built in, to create one? Is this something where you leaned into some of these, like coaching groups or you leaned into some of the books you read or like what was the solve for that problem?
- [37:51]
A
Yeah, we, we definitely leaned into coaching groups and shop tours with other companies, seeing what they were doing and yeah, just started doing ride alongs and tracking it, you know, doing the agenda card, all that good stuff. And we just train every week, sometimes three days a week with our technicians and never stopped.
- [38:15]
D
Do you have selling techs or do you.
- [38:16]
B
Tech turnovers?
- [38:17]
A
We do tech turnovers on the H Vac side. Yeah.
- [38:20]
B
Okay. I think there's a great argument this is what we're going to do at Rhino X, Chad. This, this next year I think we do a debate. I think we have a debate on selling texts versus sales consultants.
- [38:33]
C
I use all three virtual selling texts and yeah, turnovers.
- [38:37]
A
Yeah.
- [38:38]
B
Don't you think that would make for a great debate though at that? Like get two, like really strong willed people on one side of the fence and just have them debate eight. Let's do it.
- [38:47]
C
Sure, let's.
- [38:48]
B
Let's do it. Just like, just like Tommy and Hoffman debated at Pantheon on private equity versus, you know, staying, you know, I know.
- [38:57]
C
I'm sad I missed that. There's got to be a recording somewhere.
- [38:59]
A
That was good.
- [39:00]
B
We're doing it again. We're gonna, we're gonna run it back at Rhino X. We're gonna do it. I like it.
- [39:06]
A
That was great. Yeah.
- [39:08]
C
So Ty, what do you. Okay, so you're gonna be at 10 million. What are the things. I mean, we're getting into November. So obvious, you know, budgeting for next year. Thinking about that, like, what's like for you as the visionary? What, what are some of the things you guys are thinking about that's like, hey, these are the levers that we're thinking about pulling next year to like get to that next level. Like, what are you thinking about there?
- [39:33]
A
Oh, great question, great question. I think number one, you know, we can, we can just bring on an install H vac install crew and there's, there's $3 million right, right there. So we're thinking we're going to go for 16 and pull some more levers with branding in our area because like, to Chris's point, this is a great opportunity in this area for market share and we have very small portions, very fragmented here. So we're going to spend some money and jump in a lot of branding next year and get our name out there a little further and continue to recruit and train our people and kind of fall in what you've done with your tech top tech program. We're in the baby phases of that, very baby phases of that. So we're starting right now preparing to, you know, onboard and train those installers ready for next summer. Right. We'll bring them on, you know, in January so that we're ready to roll, hit the ground running in the summer for H Vac and then plumbing. You know, we're just gonna, we're just gonna keep adding them on. We could, we could use more right now. There's just so much demand.
- [40:51]
C
Do you guys have, do you guys have inside sales or follow up set up?
- [40:57]
A
No, we don't. But that, that is also a Q1 objective for us is inside sales.
- [41:03]
C
Yeah, that'll be huge for you guys. And you can use one of the, you know, we'll plug Chirp here. Since they're a sponsor on the podcast, Justin and Ryan and those guys have some great stuff from a follow up perspective that you can automate a lot of that. So we look at it from a perspective of where old inside sales before these tools used to be. Like, well, here's everything that was a $0 ticket. Just start dialing. Well, we know that getting people on the phone is very difficult. So a lot of those campaigns can be set up to automate to kind of pepper the customer to deliver kind of warmer leads to your inside sales reps. We've seen a lot of success with that as far as like, you know, like, oh crap, yeah, I forgot that I got that quote last week. Yeah, we're definitely interested. I just got busy, whatever. Like, let's go ahead and move forward. And you'll definitely see a pickup on your H Vac install as well where, you know, people are making a 15, $20,000 purchase. Like they may need a little bit of time to think about it, figure out, you know, how they're going to pay for that. We have the, the gal that does our inside sales, she has done. Actually, they just reported it today. She's done. I think she started in late May and through this month she's done like over $2 million in sales. Just following up, just picking up the phone. Hey, we were out there yesterday. Do you want to like move forward with this? And it's been awesome. As far as filling the board.
- [42:34]
A
Oh, it's huge. Huge, Huge, huge.
- [42:37]
B
Ty, do you do. Do you lead with financing?
- [42:40]
A
Yes, absolutely. Always. Yep.
- [42:43]
B
Okay.
- [42:44]
C
Have you tried it in plumbing?
- [42:46]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yep. Now, have we mastered yet? I wouldn't say that with like, our offer rate is probably lower than it should be, but it's. It works.
- [42:55]
C
Yeah.
- [42:57]
B
Interesting. Well, I know somebody who's really good at leading with financing, and he's got a fresh fade today and the B52 that flies by us.
- [43:06]
C
Exactly. All the stuff.
- [43:11]
B
Okay. So then, yeah, I mean, actually, it's. You know, we had. I had a goodrich on the podcast a few weeks ago, and I was like, talking to Kim when he comes in here just to kind of pick his brain because usually comes in, like, different gaps of time, and he's been building his business and, like, one thing he loves to talk about is I asked him about next year. I asked him how it was, you know, 2026, going to look and got his opinion on it. And. And I didn't. I didn't love his answer, but it's his opinion. And he's been around the block a time or two and been through a few of these downturns and stuff to kind of like, he's got a good. A good pulse on the overall economy. He thinks that next year is going to be a lot like this year, you know, in regards to being a challenging year. And. And up to that point, I was actually feeling. I'm. I still am feeling very optimistic about 2026, so I disagreed with him. I actually felt like it's going to be a better year. And I think a lot of us do. I know Tommy thinks that way, Chad. Like, I think it is what it is. It's all relative. Right. But. But one thing I do agree with that he said was, like it or not, people will still think that way. And people who've had a rough this year year will be conservative going into next year just because of, like, the financial piece of it there, you know, and this year was tart. So I am where you used to be riskier. Maybe you take a little bit less risk now and you're just kind of, you know, cruise through next year. And that's not how he rolls. He's like a, you know, double down. Like, that's when you attack. Like that's when you strike. And that's what he's done always with these businesses that he's been involved in. Now he's super risky because he can aff. Be risky, but he also has been through enough of these and been successful enough these, like he can't, like it can't all be luck, right? It's, there's got to be some truth there. And the way I look at it is the demand might be down, but it's not gone. Like somebody's got to take advantage of the market share. And dude, like if you double down when people are afraid, you will take share. You will do it. And I believe it and I've been through it and I've seen it and I've experienced it as the marketing partner so many times. But I still think next year is actually a great year. I really do. I just think that it's going to be a good one. And, and listen, this year is as challenging as it was, you know, and has been across the, the country or there's still quite a few success stories that we've had of people on this podcast too, you know, who've had it, who have had a great year. And like, at the end of the day it's all about like, what are you, what are you going to do to make it different? Because it is what it is. You know, you have people relying on you to, to go out and go get it. And I think, I think a good way to close this is, you know, I like to hear that you're, you're kind of, you know, start to double down a little bit, be more aggressive. I'm assuming that that means you're going to continue on your recruiting, you know, and, and creating your own tech, you know, tech program and things like that. That's great. All the right things you should be doing to get to your 16 million, 17 million number. Whatever is your chasing next year, but I think this would be a great way to close this thing out. What do you think? What do you think that your mom, who's looking down here now, thinks about what you've accomplished so far in the business?
- [46:22]
D
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- [48:22]
A
Oh man, that's a deep question. And luckily, you know my, my dad, he's awesome guy and he likes to bring this up, you know like once a year or so. And it just kills me like you know, in a good way. But I think, I think she's super proud because you know what we stand for. Our mission is to, is to improve the community, is to create careers in the trades. That's literally our mission. And I think we're doing that. We're making it happen. We're making, we're making real good careers where people can make a really good living here in Boise, Idaho and we're going to keep doing it. I think she's proud of that. I think that she'd be happy to see it.
- [49:04]
B
That's good. I mean I think that a great way you're looking at it from a really great lens through a really great lens. And that is you, you individually have the ability to impact a human being's life not just within your or walls of your business, but outside of it. And, and that's a gift that we get to have as leaders in our businesses to go and do good. And I love that you think about it that way. I think she'd be proud of you too. Of course, man. Like listen, I'm in the same boat, you know, I don't have my father. He's been gone for quite a while and do I think he'd be really proud of me. I do. I know he would be and I know I'm doing good things in our business. And so it's, you know, it's.
- [49:47]
C
It's.
- [49:48]
B
You get. You got dad. Right? And dad's probably super, you know, proud of you, too. I mean, of course, but. But, dude, you're so young. You have all kinds of room ahead of you. Right. To keep going and doing great things. You're, what, 32? Like that.
- [50:00]
A
Yeah. A long Runway ahead of us.
- [50:04]
B
We got a long Runway ahead of you to go do a lot of cool stuff, man. And. And like I said, that market is fantastic. You go over there and tackle McCall next and, like, and start to scale that thing up over there. That's a great little market, too. And I just know what I was able to do with a one over there when Pat Mittaker, rest in peace. Pat Medgar. That dude was awesome.
- [50:22]
A
It was such a good.
- [50:24]
B
And we crushed that thing, like, we crushed that market. So you have forever ahead of you to go and chase down. And it's cool that you're part of Chad's group, dude, because obviously, you got a great, you know, a great mentor. And Chad being able to help you in that group, I mean, he's been through all this stuff. He's not so far away from it. He's good at it. I. Cat, I bragged on you on one of my meetings that I had earlier today about. I'm gonna. I'm gonna pat you on the back. Okay. I'm gonna give you a little love. You ready for it? I know how you love it. I'd hug you right now because I know you love extra long, warm hugs.
- [50:52]
C
Yeah.
- [50:55]
B
But I think that where. Where Chad is best is the fact that he is a influencer without being an influencer, without wanting to be an influencer. But he just is, like, he's a sharp guy who. Who cares about helping you out and. And doesn't care about being in the lights and all this other like that. But he is, because of who he is, like, and that's a cool thing for you to be a part of. Is. Is he would sit down and help you, you know, walk through whatever the challenges are in your businesses. And having been through it, he could help give you the solutions on how to fix it. He ain't going out and working on an air conditioner himself. And if he did, you'd be sending the service tank back out there to fix it or replacing it for free, actually. Chad, that's when you become an arsonist, my friend.
- [51:45]
C
That's right.
- [51:45]
A
Yeah.
- [51:46]
C
Because I'd probably catch my house on fire, so I'M gonna stay, stay away from that.
- [51:51]
B
But it's exciting, man, for us to watch your, you know, to watch your, Your journey, man, you know, and that 32 to keep. Kind of keep going and run with it. And I'm glad we get to finally connect. Like I said, I haven't, you know, you and I beforehand had never actually met. I, I recognize the name just on, on social media. So it's cool to hear your story, dude, and to kind of hear where you're at and knowing what you're doing and, and, and listen, I, I think that you're probably in the right mindset to make 26 a great year. So I'm excited for you and appreciate you giving us time on the podcast today.
- [52:19]
A
You bet. Thank you guys for having me on here and thank you, Chad, for everything you've helped me with. And you knew Chris, too, over the years listening to this podcast, so it's an honor. Yep.
- [52:28]
B
My pleasure, man. My pleasure. Well, listen, we covered quite a bit and you know, sometimes in these podcasts, the best thing we can do is work through your story because, you know, 30, 000 or so, you know, people listen to this sucker download these things and like, not everything everybody says is going to land right, but there's always something in someone's story that does. And all we got to do is get to the one. Yeah, one person who hears it and says, that's me, man. I made the same mistake, you know, elevating a technician to be a manager or the same, you know, same process. So I made the same mistake, man. I knew I needed to. To go after. To save this, you, these plumbers, and I didn't do it. And man, then. Or they caught it. Now they just relayed and they caught it before it actually happened. That's like the, the best result. So, Chad, unless you got anything, man, I'm gonna go ahead and close this bad boy out. You good to go?
- [53:15]
C
Yeah, all good. Ty, thanks again for being on here, man. Congrats on all your success. I know 26. Kind of thinking back to Chris's comment about how do we think this is going to be, to me, it's a. It's a matter of there's plenty of business out there. It's a matter of if you're going to execute or not, and it sounds like you're well on your way, so I definitely see a lot of. A lot of really awesome things coming down the. Coming down the pipe for sure. And Chris, thanks for your comments. That means a lot, buddy. Usually you're picking on me, so that's a nice change of pace, Chad.
- [53:46]
B
I love you, too.
- [53:48]
A
Love you, too, man.
- [53:50]
B
Ty. Thanks, brother. To our listeners. You don't got to do everything, but you got to do something. No. Zero days.