← To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
From Folding Table to Finding Legacy w/ Brian Gottlieb
00:55:56
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- [00:02]
A
This is to the Point a Rhino experience voted one of the top home services, marketing and operations podcasts. Cutting through the. And getting to the point.
- [00:17]
B
Hey, what's up, everybody? It's your boy, Chris.
- [00:20]
C
Exciting podcast today. Our guest. Our guest. Somebody I got the pleasure of meeting before Tommy. Tommy mellows Vertical Track event. So I came over to the house early and got to spend some time with him and learning what he does. And I think it was maybe 30 minutes after chat and I was like, brian, we got to get you on the podcast, dude. Like, I think this is gonna work out just nice.
- [00:45]
A
And then.
- [00:45]
C
Yeah, yeah, you guys give a keynote at Vertical Track, I believe on the second day there. But we got Brian Gottlieb on the podcast today, and he. God, I think I read somewhere like nearly a billion in lifetime sales or some crazy number like that, but. Founder of a Tunderland home improvement. Is that it?
- [01:05]
A
That was one of the businesses. Yep.
- [01:07]
C
One of multiple. I saw that. I'm not going to get. Be able to get it all. Kind of let us at least share some of that with the listeners. I love the. Started at the folding table, you know, from. With, you know, three grand to get it to 600 employees. Like, there's so much. So much room in that there that we can. We can probably learn from and hope to learn from. Author of beyond the beyond the Hammer, which was so cool of Tommy. I don't know if you and Tommy put that together to give all the VIP guests his book or give. Give them your book. That was pretty cool.
- [01:35]
A
Yeah, that was nice of him, for sure. Yeah.
- [01:37]
C
So we got an author. You do it. You do a ton of. Like I mentioned, you know, the keynote speaking. So you're kind of, you know, you're kind of out doing your thing. I'm encouraged to know what's motivating you to still go out and do all. All this stuff after all this success that you've had.
- [01:50]
A
Yeah.
- [01:51]
C
Like, why do you want to keep doing this? And you know what? You know where Chad, where Brian went to, you know, went to school? At least one place he went to school is the one place I actually turned down so I could go to Indiana State University. He's a. Was a Harvard guy.
- [02:04]
A
Yeah. But, but, but, but in all fairness. Okay, to be clear, I barely graduated high school. Let's get that out right away. Barely graduated high school. It was my one regret I had in life is not going to college. So when I was. When I. I guess at the time my business was probably doing $30 million a year in revenue. And I looked in the mirror and I said, I have no idea what I'm doing because I've never run a $30 million company before. So I heard about an executive ed program at Harvard Business School. So, you know, if I'm going to go to school. Let's swing for the fences here.
- [02:33]
C
Yeah, I'll use a good one. I didn't swing for that same fence. Just so it's shot a little lower. I was going for a bunt. Well, we're excited to have you on here today and kind of talk through some of your journey and, you know, and maybe we. What we can do to kick this off. Let's just not assume everybody knows who Brian Gottlieb is. Let's just give them a little bit of your. Of your back, you know, your background. So that way, when I ask them what the rest of the questions, they know what. Where we're.
- [02:59]
A
Yeah. And again, thanks so much for having me on your podcast. You know, it's so cool because you make. You make such a difference in people's lives just by bringing good content out there so they can grab nuggets and run with them. So hopefully we're going to lay some nuggets out today that people can actually action on. It'll be good. Yeah. So I started my first, you know, growing up in the industry, again, not going to school, not going to college. I grew up sitting at a kitchen table selling either pots and pans or home improvement projects, you name it. But, you know, over time, after. After a while, that gets a little difficult. Right. So I decided one day I wanted to start my own business. And in 2009, I opened up my first home improvement company in the back in Appleton, Wisconsin. By the way, there are more cows than people in Appleton, Wisconsin. So anyway. But I opened up my first home improvement company with $3,000 on a plastic f holding table. And fortunately, over time, it grew into several different businesses. One of them is a company called Renewal by Andersen Windows. Another one is a jacuzzi bath remodel business out in Arizona. And then fortunately, in a few years back, I then sold all three businesses to three different buyers. Two of them were two different private equity groups, and one was to my executive leadership team. So you can imagine I've stubbed my toe along the way quite a bit. But it was a fun ride.
- [04:13]
C
That's right, because we were talking that Tommy's about the Renewal by Anderson stuff, too, but I forgot you mentioned the jacuzzi business out here. So you're, you're up. You kind of are like a part timer, right? So you're kind of. Yeah. In Wisconsin, part time. Down here in Phoenix part of the time.
- [04:26]
A
Yep.
- [04:26]
C
Which is great because now I know that you're out here part time, we can all, you know, get together. It'd be awesome.
- [04:31]
A
That's right. Love it.
- [04:32]
C
And then, and then I can just basically, you know, pull like a Tommy and just talk, you know, about business stuff. 90 in the conversation. And so maybe let's do this. And then obviously Chad just kind of pipe in. Whatever, dude. But, you know, when you kind of look back at the, you know, the, the plastic, the plastic folding table and you, and you know, the three grand, what do you think the version of you would say about the guy that's sitting here today who now doesn't need to do like, really anything if he didn't want to, you know, what would that be?
- [05:07]
A
Yeah, well, look, I mean, you know, what's so interesting is I think in life, you know, our purpose changes, Right. Like, you know, in the early days of business, your only purpose is to stay in business another day. Right? That's your purpose. But, but, you know, today my purpose is, you know, I just want to make a positive impact in this world every day. And I believe the best way I can do that is through the, the entrepreneur and the manager in the blue collar industry. I've been there. I understand, I understand the challenges, but also understand what happens when people get it right. The, the, the, the impact they can make. You know, they're hiring people, they're changing people's lives. They're, they're change, they're working people's homes. It could really be a, it can. Business owners that get it right can offer people more than just a job. They can truly provide a career path and a pivot point for people's lives because that, people come to work for you. They, you know, they usually probably didn't go to college either. And, and, and they can get, you know, easily stuck. But, but, but if they land the right opportunity, you know, they start buying their own homes, they buy their first car, they get married, they start a retirement account. They truly, they truly, it changes their lives. And if I can help along that way, I'm going to do so. So that's kind of my motivation.
- [06:16]
C
Well, that's actually great because this leads me into my next question, which, you know, because I'm from, you know, just listening to the different podcasts, you know, and I kind of went, alison, I totally Cheated on the book because it's so easy with chat GPT now to pull the metrics out of there. I pull the data out of there.
- [06:33]
A
That's awesome.
- [06:34]
C
High level. But you also talk a lot about leadership culture, things like, like that as well. Yeah. And, you know, you grow from, you know, three people to 600. You know, this is just a, you know, a math problem. It's, it's, it's a people problem. And so when were you like, oh, crap, like, we're getting big. And then, and then what are the moments that kind of force you to level up your leadership, you know, in that little gap?
- [07:00]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. Look, a lot of times in the business, as the business is scaling rapidly, constantly growing, you know, there are few, there are a few challenges that come with that. Right. The first challenge is by the time you plug a system in, you've already outgrown it. So that's. So that's one problem. Right. The second problem is, look, not everybody knows what they're. If I don't know what I'm doing, how do I expect everybody else to know what they're doing? And sometimes it's just trying to hold the wheels on the vehicle so as they're shaking and they're not falling off, but, but also realizing that, you know, that the lid of the business, the lid of the business, if we're trying to really grow business, the lid of the business is directly connected to the lid of the people on the team. The business can't outgrow the capabilities of those that work for you. They can't. It can't. So we have all these aspirations of growing a business, but if we want to do that, we have to commit to growing people. And, and when we, when we recognize that, then we have to say, okay, where are really the gaps? Right. Where are really the gaps? If, if I've never been a CEO of at the time, or 30 or 40 or 50 or $100 million company, the odds are my managers have never run a team. Sure, they might have experience in that one little thing they're doing. And we often put managers into roles and what we might provide, you might provide. Like our installers get a whole bunch of training, Our sales reps get a whole bunch of training before they're even allowed to talk to a customer. But a manager, we just dump them in that role and we say, okay, go get it. And I think the business didn't really start to explode until we realized that we, we have to treat our Managers like we treat anybody else, we have to be a training organization. We really have to commit to teaching a manager what it means to be successful because ultimately they don't just lead a team, they're also the custodians of the company's culture. And that's really important because culture ultimately defines how the business is going to perform.
- [08:45]
C
Custodians, the company's culture.
- [08:47]
D
Brian, I couldn't, Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more on this. I mean, I think it's something we talk about every day. You know, we train, we train, train, train, train, train, but we don't train any management, we don't train any leadership. And it's something we got back into this past year and really making plans for next year to, you know, increase the, you know, I think sometimes we train to say, we train to check a box and we don't ever think about how good the training is. What were maybe some of those things that you found effective? Obviously we try a bunch of different stuff. You know, whether it's John Maxwell training or this or that. Were there, were there certain things that you would point to that like, you know, what that was really effective in what we did as it relates, relates to training your kind of middle management?
- [09:29]
A
Yeah, it's a really, it's a really great question. And I think the first thing to understand is that, and it's one of the pillars of my book is that, you know, leaders model their business as a training organization. And inside the book There are these 10 practices to top performing managers for our industry. Okay, but what I found is so important is training isn't like an event. It's got, it has to be woven into the fabric of the organization. It really has to be. And we have to know, we have to be able to. How do we look if we're doing an installation? We can inspect the installation by looking at it. How do we inspect our training to make sure it's sticking, to make sure it's effective, to make sure it's relevant, all those sorts of things. And I think also that, you know, how does the trainer have a way of doing that? Not at the end of a class, like there's a final exam. But look, we always liked using little pop quizzes during the training to see are people grasping it? Because people learn at different, you know, at different speeds. And you know, what it's like when you're starting something new and you're bringing somebody into, you know, they're in a new environment, something that they've never done before for and work. You're pounding them with all this new information and, and people start to feel overwhelmed. Then they get something called fud, which is fear, uncertainty and doubt. And they wonder if they should even be doing this. They don't understand it, they're not good enough. And all these reasons, there's like a voice in their ear telling them they should probably quit instead of sticking with it. So what I find, the quicker we can get somebody proof of their learning, the better off we are. So that's why we like to use short little quizzes on a daily basis in any training environment so they can see, oh my gosh, I guess I am learning stuff. Yeah, there's plenty I still need to learn, but I'm making progress. We think that's also a really, really important part of being a training organization.
- [11:08]
C
Yeah, I mean listen, we're like, this is impeccable timing because these are like convers. I think, I think whenever I met you, Brian, I can't remember if we were talking about. But we're like right in the thick of doing a strategic, all of our strategic annual planning for 2026. And, and part of that is looking back at where are we falling short, not just as a business, but us as leaders. And, and it's the same thing. Like I, we, we're not giving our leadership and managers near enough attention and training that, that they need. So that falls on, on us right at the top of the food chain, I believe, for not, you know, for not implementing that process. And so, but recognizing it's half the battle. Like these things scale and grow and you can't make it so hard to keep a pulse on everything. And you can put processes in place with the processes are only as good as the people around the processes.
- [11:59]
A
Yeah, yeah. And it's also, it's also right. It's also understanding. Let's, let's just, let's face it, you know, it's not like this person's a leader and that person's a manager in this world where sometimes we, sometimes we have to be a manager and sometimes we have to be a leader. Sometimes we're wearing our management hat where we're navigating the day to day complexity complexities of the business, making sure systems and processes are being followed. And other times we're putting on our leadership hat with our team. We're trying to change the mindset and change performance of future change, future performance, change behaviors. That's, that's leadership stuff. And so if, if we recognize that that different that every manager I'm just going to call my manager for now has to sometimes be a leader, too. Then we also have to understand that sometimes they need. They need to know what are their levers of influence and what are their levers of control. And they're different tools that get a very different result. I. I use the analogy that when I used to coach my kids T ball, right? And you know, we. The kids would have to wear, like, hats, helmets, and, you know, there were rules and there's like, fence around the property so they don't run off. You know, those are levers of control. You know, levers of influence are. Hey, man, go ahead, you can swing. Nice job.
- [13:09]
C
Go.
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A
You run the wrong way. Run this way. Go, go, go. You know, that's all. But you need both, because if we just had rules and a bunch of kids in. In with bats and. And fences, it would feel more like prison. But if we just had. If we had no rules, it would be anarchy. And it's the same thing for, for, for managers. They have to understand what are the different levers of influence and levers of control that I have in order to be an effective leader for the team.
- [13:34]
C
Man, that's really good. I. Anarchy. I don't know. But as you're telling that story, I'm envisioning Chad's Julian, who's. I don't know if he's playing T ball, but dear God, you just let him let it rip. You know, no offense. Just go. Just swing the bat, you know, no rules.
- [13:52]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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D
I'm imagining my living room on a nightly basis with. Don't hit your sister. Please don't hit your sister.
- [13:59]
C
Yeah.
- [14:00]
A
You know, and I also had the thing about that. Managers have to understand, and all of us as leaders have to understand there's a massive difference between being right and being influential. Right. We could be right all day long that somebody needs to do something a different way. By no means does it mean that it's going to be done a different way. So we have to teach really how to be influential with others. And sometimes we have to have, Have. Have patience with that. And I'd also share with you that you know, that if. If you don't really focus on your managers when you grow, what you'll have, because I've had this is you'll have a very chaotic business, okay? You have a lot of chaos all the time. Now, don't get me wrong, and chaos can produce revenue all day long, but it takes discipline that produces profit. And that discipline is so important if you want to have healthy growth and sustainable growth which I'm sure you can, can relate to in your businesses.
- [14:52]
D
Brian, one, one question I'd ask you. Mainly I'm going to ask you because it seems like we're aligned on a lot of things here. We're currently in our leadership training. We're studying the five dysfunctions of a team and we were, we were talking this morning about, you know, kind of embracing conflict and I think it's something in a small business, it's really hard. It's just, well, do what the, do what the owner says to do and we won't ask questions and we'll just move on. And I think as you scale and you have silos of like different departments and different things and so like how did you and your business businesses like kind of, kind of foster that environment where conflict was welcome and like hey, we can debate ideas and try to find the best solution and so and so forth.
- [15:37]
A
Yeah, so.
- [15:39]
B
Sorry for the interruption. To the point listeners, have you heard of rilla? Are you using Rilla yet? If not, are you for Rilla? See what I did there? Rilla is the leading speech analytics software for the trades. It is on a mission to bring physical ride alongs to an end. You can coach your reps with virtual ride alongs now that are a hundred times better, faster and much better, more efficient than the physical ones. All you got to do is use the Killa Rilla. That's R I, L L A L A. You're spending thousands to make the phone.
- [16:17]
C
Ring but if your CSRs aren't picking.
- [16:19]
B
Up or converting, you might as well light it on fire. And what are the largest businesses in.
- [16:24]
C
The country doing about this?
- [16:25]
B
They use Avoca, the leading AI platform in the trades. Hundred million dollar businesses like HL Bowman are operating with only, only 9 CSRs because Avoca handles up to 80% of the calls. Plus Avoca follows up with your leads, grades your CSR calls and helps you strategize.
- [16:46]
C
So my suggestion, go with the leading.
- [16:48]
B
Company, check out Avoca AI. That's A B, O, C A I click the link below.
- [16:56]
A
So twice a year, everybody on the team. Because also what happens is as the business grows, if you think about it this way, as you know as the business grows, your org chart gets steeper and steeper and steeper. You're actually getting further and further and further away from the customer. You're getting further and further away from the people that are talking to your customers. And, and, and, and that is a Lot of your culture, right? So we have to say conflict is one word. I want to know what the business is doing wrong. What are some other ideas out there? So, you know this whole thing called an exit survey. When somebody, when somebody quits, you sit down with them, you ask them a bunch why you quit, and you get it. It's. It's an autopsy. It's all it is. The patient died, They've moved on. Instead of that, we would do a. We would do a stay survey twice a year. And a stay survey had four questions on it. The first question was, you know, what makes you want to come to work every day? Number two, what would one day make you want to leave? The third question is, what is one thing the company is doing wrong today? And the fourth question is, what is one thing you need from your manager that you're not getting? I want to get a wide range of ideas on what people believe the company is doing wrong today. The further I am away from the customer, the more I have to give the people that are closest to the customer not just a voice, but a megaphone in the business, because they're going to see the real problems. We might plug ideas in way up in our ivory tower, and they could be terrible ideas. And that's the other challenge. Because entrepreneurs are very good business. They're tend to be very fast decision makers, but at scale, the entrepreneur might not be the best person to make some of these decisions anymore because they're too far away from the people that have to execute on it. And there's a saying that a shepherd should smell like the sheep. So how do you smell more like the sheep? If you want to be a shepherd, you got to give people a voice that are close to your customer.
- [18:52]
C
Yeah, I, like, God, can't remember if we talked about this stuff. I feel like I go through, like, I literally just am going through, through this moment because I can't remember what all we're talking about. We've all what all we talked about, Brian. But, like, as this thing got bigger, the further I got away from the actual cusp or even all the details of things that we do for them, like all of the things. And now that I've had to kind of jump back in and, and the, the best way I. I learned is just by getting in it. And by the way, you learn so much from. From firefighting. Right. Which happened. And by the way, Chad, by the way, you have given me a gift. On the last podcast we did, the arsonist comment gave me a gift because I've had that same conversation so many times. And we give you credit, so don't worry.
- [19:40]
D
You got a few arsonists in there.
- [19:41]
C
We have, we have quite a few arsonists.
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D
So, yeah, we got a couple.
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A
Oh.
- [19:48]
C
But anyway, it's. I'm back in the thick of it is where I'm going, Brian, and like it. The best way I know how to help is I have to understand what's actually going on. And, and this is where we're finding some gaps. And so it's, it's hard, but I just, you know, I, I don't know that I have to. I'm. If I get to figure out somehow how to stay deep enough attached to understand, like what's going on in the business and the different channels. I don't need to all details. I'm not trying to get in the weeds, but I at least need to know enough. And, and that was a, that was a lesson learned over these last, you know, couple years for me.
- [20:22]
A
Yeah, I think that's great. Well, also, you know, I think we all, we all wish. None of us wish to have a business where we're micromanaging everybody. Right. We don't wish to have a. Create an environment where people are micromanaged. In fact, we probably used to work for people like that and left them for a reason. Right? Nobody likes that. Nobody. Oh my gosh, my boss really micromanages every detail. I can't wait to go to work every day. And yet we fall into that trap very easily, and especially when you're early stage and growing. Because, because I get it, you know, you're all in on your business. You're all in. It's not, not like if, you know, if, if money goes in the wrong direction or something doesn't work, you might not have a business anymore. So we tend to want to micromanage every single aspect of the business. But we also know that's not scalable. So if we, if we roll back to the idea that, that we have to model our business as a training organization. I can't possibly empower people unless if I teach them how to make decisions. Right. And if they understand, you know, it's. It's okay to be wrong, just. Just don't be wrong for long. And, but how do we teach people that? Because the more we can teach them that, then the more they can lead their team properly. So I think, I think it's. It goes back to developing people. I mean, it really does, doesn't it?
- [21:32]
C
I have, I have a couple questions on on culture and hang with me, listeners. I know some people hate to hear about culture, but like, this is gonna land somewhere. But for I'm gonna be super selfish because, I mean, I've got you on here. So I'm going to ask you questions. Yeah, I'm thinking through and first one, the simple question is when you think about, you know, your businesses, it is. We had all. And I say we, it's my wife Ann and I, which you met, we had run the business was a people first business. It was. We put our employees first. And if we put our employees first, we knew they would take great care of the clients. We're giving them all the tools they need, the support, the care, all the stuff, you know, and then it would take care of the employees. So do you believe that it's 51%, you know, internal, you know, your, your employees, and then 49% cut. Like how do you.
- [22:27]
A
Yeah, well, well, let's first say if we're talking about culture, let's define culture. Right? What is it? What is a business culture? Right. A business culture is a shared set of thoughts, feelings and behaviors amongst your team when you're looking and when nobody's watching. Ultimately, that is your business culture. Okay. And what is the purpose of a business culture? It's essentially to win. It's to achieve its aspirational goals, which is winning. So what is the business's aspirational goals? What culture do you need to accomplish it? I love, I think culture. We had a saying in our business that if you wanted to copy our performance, you first had to copy our culture and what goes on inside of our people's heads. Because, because that's, that's the difference maker. So look, I. It's a difference between, there's a difference between having a team and having a family. Right? I mean, my family, I have unconditional love for. I'm not going to throw, I'm not going to throw one of my kids out of our family if they like, if they don't show up at family dinners a few times. But if, but if, if an employee doesn't do that, they're not going to make the team, they're not going to stay on the team. So I also think, so you can be people first and, and you can also have respect for your culture. And you also have to protect the, the integrity of the team. And the aligned concept of the purpose of our culture is to achieve our aspirational goal, whatever that might be.
- [23:50]
C
Got it. What's my shift for? Just a little Bit. What's the, what's the biggest. What's the biggest lie that we tell ourselves as leaders about what it takes to, you know, build a great culture? Biggest lie.
- [24:09]
A
Cheerleading. Right. I, I would say cheerleading. I think it's probably different for everybody. Oh, we got to have, you know, good benefits. I don't know. Good benefits. We have, we offer the best benefits. We must have a good culture. Yeah, it's. It's ridiculous again. It's, it's. How are people, how are people performing when nobody's looking? Right. When nobody's looking. And the reason we say the, the custodian, the manager is the custodian of the company's culture. If you think about what they're doing, they're doing the training, they're doing the public praising, they're doing the terminating, they're doing the hiring. And how an organization does those things affects how people think. About the organization and how people think. Well, that's the first part of your business's culture. How they think, feel and behave. That is your culture. Because how we think affects how we feel, which determines how we behave, how people do those things, how they think, feel and behave determines, my friends, whether or not they're showing up at work, whether or not they're looking for job, another job when they leave work, whether they're performing their work safely and being productive and all those sorts of things which ultimately is the organization's performance. So it all starts with how people think, feel and behave. And it all starts with culture.
- [25:22]
C
I mean, you, I don't know if you ever dealt with this, and I'm sure that your answer is going to vary based on size of business. But for those who might be listening right now, who are like, maybe because in a lot of the home service businesses here was a little more difficult or challenging. And, and, and that can also impact the culture of the business kind of inadvertently. Right. But how do you turn, like, how do you turn a bad culture?
- [25:48]
A
Yeah.
- [25:49]
C
To fix it, you know? And is there like a time frame like you've experienced? Coach?
- [25:54]
A
Well, look, what. First of all, what I love about the blue collar industry, what I love about home improvements and home services is it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive, it doesn't matter where you went to school, it doesn't matter what your education level is. You can have the career of your dreams. You really can. And you can accomplish amazing things. What I, what I hate about it, okay, is that, you know, we have customers, okay. Business would be a lot easier if we didn't have any customers. But. But the other challenge is that unlike manufacturing and these other businesses, 99.999% of every person on your team is interacting with the customer, either over the telephone or face to face. And all of this gets really complicated because we don't know what people are saying all the time. And if they can only, you know, and it's always a reflection of the business because they're all interacting with the customer. So look, when you have a bad. When you have a bad culture, look, the first thing is, and I write about this in my book, is that your culture is shaped by the lowest level of acceptable behavior, okay? That's what shapes your culture. The lowest level of acceptable behavior. What we tolerate, we actually attract more of. So if you have that, like that, that high culture fit, low performer, maybe they're in a sales role and you know, the person I'm talking about, you love them, you love them, but from a sales standpoint, they can't even close a car door, okay? And you keep them on board anyway. That what you're doing is you're creating a new standard. You're now saying, that's okay, and you just redefined your culture in that very moment by not doing anything about it. Or you have the. The high performer, low culture fit. This is the person that's, like, highly, highly productive. But, you know, can you please stop talking to our customers? Go do the work. Don't say any customer and come on back. Or stop, stop showing up on our meetings because you blow our meetings up. You can't allow this stuff inside of your business because each time you're doing that, you're creating a new set point on what the culture is. So my suggestion, my suggestion to anybody that's struggling with a difficult culture is inspect what you tolerate. You know, what are you tolerating? And then you ask yourself, is that what you want your business to become? Because ultimately that's what it will become, in my opinion. I'd be curious to see what you guys do.
- [28:08]
D
Yeah, Brian, I think that's such a great point. Especially as kind of like what you tolerate are, do people know what good looks like? You know, one really impactful thing that we've done in the business here, I guess it's been about a year and a half, is we rolled out what we call paths to progression. So for, you know, field professionals who start out, maybe they're green, just getting in the industry, maybe they've been doing this for five, 10 years. But I think what we found is that we never gave them a scoreboard and so they were just going out and doing the work and going out tomorrow and doing the work and they never had anything to like shoot for. Like, you know, I always think back of, you know, we don't do annual raises anymore. You can get a raise here every six months. If your KPIs are continuing to trend up, then we're going to pay you for what you're worth. Did you, what did you guys do, like, you know, for your frontline field professionals that are out there doing the work, either selling it or doing it? Like, what were some of the things that you did that you found effective in motivating them?
- [29:10]
A
Yeah, well, I agree with you, by the way. I don't think, first of all, everybody was on performance pay. So regardless, if you've been listening to.
- [29:18]
E
This show, you'll know that I only talk about tools that actually help our team. And Blu on is definitely one of those. At Peterman Brothers, our techs are using Blu on every single day. It's become their go to resource. It really is like having a senior tech in your pocket. They can scan a unit, get all the model data, wiring diagrams, parts, and even troubleshoot. With Bluon's AI, we've seen fewer callbacks, faster fixes, and happier techs. And that's why I'm such a big believer in Bluon, because it actually works. So do yourself a favor, click on the link in the description and book a quick demo with the Bluon team to see it in action.
- [30:02]
B
In home services, speed to lead is everything. Chirp stands out. By transforming your communication strategy with Chirp, accelerate your lead response time with instant sms, text messaging, email, and ringless voicemail automation. Chirp's cutting edge technology ensures you're the first and the most persistent, helping you close more deals than ever. But that's not all. Say goodbye to missed opportunities with Chirp's incredible follow up system. Keep your leads engaged and moving smoothly through your sales funnel without lifting a finger. And with your deep integrations with top CRMs like Service Titan, Housecall Pro and Jobber, you can launch laser targeted campaigns to connect with the exact right leads at the exact right time. Automation creates efficiency. Efficiency unlocks scalability. With Chirp, you can automate speed to lead, estimate follow ups, rehash abandoned call follow ups, canceled job follow ups, review requests, outbounding to your list, annual reminders, membership expiration follow ups, and so much more. So stop chasing leads, capture them, connect faster and close more deals with church contact Trip today and elevate your communication game.
- [31:24]
A
Had some KPI that they had to speak to every single day. And they had to speak to it in two ways. They had to speak about, this is my target and this is my actual. So they put those two things next to each other and had to speak to it and had to report upwards on it every single day. That's so they know. Look, I wanted people. When they, when they got home at the end of the day from work and they put their head on the pillow, do they know that they had a good day at work? Do they know that they had a good day? If they didn't know they had a good day, that's my fault, not theirs. That means they don't have. They're not chasing a number that they can reflect upon and say, yes, it was good. The other thing that I found is that we assume things. I assumed things. I wanted everybody to have a signature service experience. Just this, this, this fantastic white glove experience for our customers. But, but how many of our people on our team even know what that looks like? How do they even know what, what do they have? Do they understand what, what amazing service is until you compare it? And so I remember taking a team of people down to Chicago to. To two restaurants. And the first one was just a. It was a nice restaurant in Chicago. And the second one was something inside of the Ritz Carlton with the tablecloths and the big wine sunglasses. And they can compare. This is when we talk about exceptional service. What did we learn here? I think a lot of times we have to model the way. And we can't assume that when we say provide a great experience that people understand what that actually even looks like.
- [32:57]
D
Geez.
- [32:58]
C
I. I took about three sets of notes here. Not sure I can make out what I just wrote, but from a couple things that you guys were talking about.
- [33:07]
A
Yeah.
- [33:08]
C
I think that you. That. I think that what stood out to me the most, what you just said, is when they go to bed, do they know they had a good day?
- [33:17]
A
Yeah.
- [33:17]
C
So there's got to be some measurable in there that allows them to know what my day was like. And I try to think through, like, man, I don't know, what is it? Sometimes the hardest days are good days, but they're really. They feel like shitty days because they're, they're hard. But the way he handled it and, you know, might have. But. But for those who don't have Lowe's and it's just like, hey, what is, what is your day to Day job, like pay, performance, pay is one easy way. I think that you could, you could measure that. But. Okay, so I'm gonna try and shift gears a little bit because there's still like, I haven't even gotten through a half of. We're already 30 minutes into this thing.
- [33:53]
A
Can I add one more point to this, by the way, because it's a really important point? Okay. You know, we talked earlier when we first started chatting. One of the challenges in business is that it's easy to outgrow our. Once you plug in a system, you're outgrowing it already. I speak at. I can't tell you how many keynotes I do a year for the blue collar industry. And I. Every time I ask the room of people, how many of you need to do a better job documenting your systems and processes? And 95% of the hands go up. It's constant. Right. I think the other thing about helping people know that they're having a good day is understanding that, look, yes, you need systems and processes in your business. However, what you need before you can get to the right system and process, the team needs to understand what are the. What are the core business disciplines? What are the core business disciplines? Disciplines in a business are timeless. And what I mean by that is like, okay, one of our marketing business disciplines was the lead is sacred. Okay. That is a business discipline we can talk all day long about now. Okay, how do we treat a sacred lead? What kind of systems and processes do we need to deliver upon that discipline? Or one of our other disciplines was when we're, when we're done with a job, we get paid in full that moment, at that moment, what systems and processes do we need to deliver to that? I think companies would do very well if they could think about each one of their departments inside of their business, regardless of size. What are the core disciplines of their business? And if they don't have great ways of measuring a daily KPI in some areas, at least they can measure themselves to the discipline. Did I honor the business discipline today? Because if they can do that, you know what? The business is going to be a whole lot better off. And if they don't have great systems and processes, they'll be okay if they have clear disciplines and teach those to everybody.
- [35:47]
C
Yeah. So do you think that the. We have one of our, one of Chad, Nice friends, Chris Hoffman, who talks about when he's doing budgeting, doing budgeting from the bottom up. Now they have an idea of what they want to accomplish that year. But to get Everybody involved in the solution or whatever the KPI is, they're asking them, you know, how does your, you know, what do you, what do you think is best to hit this number? It's kind of like a working session now. They probably already have an idea of what they want to do.
- [36:16]
A
Right.
- [36:16]
C
But it's getting them engaged in the process. It's. I, I don't know how. I guess it's hard for me to think through how do I create a KPI for every department in my business that feels like the right KPI? Like, and is it the same for everybody? Like, I don't know, is there some variables in there? Like the, it's not just one KPI per department. Maybe, maybe it is. But you have, you know, you'd have technicians or installers who are maybe better than the others or faster than the others or make less mistakes than the others, or. I just, I don't know, is it. And, but you can't have too many because then you can't manage it.
- [36:51]
A
Well, well, you, you, I look at it as a KPI tree, like, sort of like instead of an org chart. If you think about it as a KPI chart, right. What are the, what are the top two or three KPIs that I need from each department inside of the business? And then what, what activities support those KPIs? What do we need the rest of the team to be excellent, excellent at in order to deliver, achieve those, those results? Those, those activities further down the org chart are individual KPIs. So they all feed up to my, what I would call my executive level KPIs, which are, you know, very high level. But, but the people closest to the customer, they need theirs too. So once again, they know what, what they're focusing in on. It was hard. It was hard for me to figure out, okay, how do I, what, what should my like customer care person's KPI be? Right or what? But you know, again, if the cousin, if you have the right disciplines or, or my, my, my accountants KPI. What kind of a, what do I give a CFO as a KPI? Right, but, but you know, you can get there if you try hard enough. It's a little harder when you get into the assistant roles, but they're usually supporting KPIs to support the primary role.
- [38:01]
C
Okay, so I'm going to shift gears just a little bit just for the sake of time too because I want to get to a couple other little topics I want to hit on. And you have called it expertise in sales and business systems, I think it's fair to say. But what's one. You know, sometimes Chad and I talk about the boring stuff in the business is where you really can start to, like, move these things forward. What's one unsexy system that completely changed, like, the company's trajectory? Right. So there's got to be something in there that you're like, yeah, this isn't popular, but this is. This is going to be an answer that stands out to you.
- [38:36]
A
Yeah. That realizing that is nothing sexy about it. But complexity is the enemy of execution. Okay. Complexity is very, very difficult to scale. Now, here's the thing. The key to business is simplicity. Right. How do you keep the business as simple as possible? The challenge being that making a business complicated. I was just on the phone with somebody, used to work for me, then I started their own business and just having the same call with. I had a call with him today where he's opened up these other locations and it's different products. Get. Making a business complicated is very easy to do. Keeping a business simple is very difficult to do. So to me, keeping constantly looking for unnecessary things in the business, stripping complexity out of the business is not sexy, but it is. It is crucial if I want to scale because a complex business is very, very challenging. So I would say that would. That was my thing. Nobody really. Yeah, I cared about it more than most. But that's okay. It was important to do.
- [39:47]
D
Yeah. I think one thing. I'll double down on that point. Mainly because we do it every day. I'm like, why are we making this so complex? And I think that.
- [39:56]
C
I think the.
- [39:57]
D
Everyone's favorite word, the sop actually is like a vehicle to make things more complicated. It's like, well, here's this. Well, we can just write it down on paper and it gets really simple. It's like, well, if the show sheet of paper is eight pages long and it's stored in a portal that no one ever goes to nor knows how to get to, it's worthless. So, like, why do we have this? So I've been like the SOP killer here lately. I'm like, no, we don't need an SOP for this. Just pick up the damn phone. We don't need eight steps. Just do it.
- [40:30]
A
Well, I'm so happy you said that because I agree with you. And what tends to happen is, you know, you need SOPs for the SOPS for the SOPS. They need somebody to run the SOPS and manage the SOPS. And that's where I go back to business disciplines. Right. I think a lot of these sops can go out the window and be replaced for what are the, what are the business disciplines, that department disciplines or that moment. But, but I also think that, you know what, what happens is because, because 99% of our people are talking to the customer. That means that's a lot of opportunity for friction. Right? For friction where friction whenever two people interact with each other, whether it's by department or, or, or customer facing. Look, look, that's, that's an area where we can say, okay, we can model out how we want that exchange to go. Right. We can document if we want to, how that exchange could go. But it doesn't. But to your point, having it written down in some cloud thing that nobody knows how to access anyway, and who's going to read it? You know, it's, it's really about, it's, it's about living it and breathing it and, and rewarding great behavior when you see it and all those sorts of things.
- [41:33]
C
This is a good conversation. Okay, go ahead, Chad, because I gotta follow up to that.
- [41:37]
D
Oh, I was just gonna say, I mean I asked the question like a month ago. I was like, so where are all these SOPs? Where are they? Like it. I don't even know how to get to them. So if I don't know how to get to them, I'm gonna guess that no one is following them. I wouldn't think. I mean, they don't know how to get to them. Like hidden.
- [41:56]
A
Yeah, I love that. I, I can so relate to.
- [42:01]
C
Listen, I may, I mean, listen, I'm right there with you on that one. I don't even know how to. I can't say last time I've been to our little internal portal, nor do I even know how to log into it now I think about it. Yeah, but, but actually this is, this is a great topic because we do over complicate things, you know, and, and I think the intention is, is good, but we over complicate these things. But then it's like how do you reel it back in and it. Because it seems like such a heavy lift and then go and figure out. You know, I struggle, I really struggle with this one because I, I've say it so many times. I feel like we've over complicated our business and it's where like we give too many people the, the leisurely stroll of figuring out the solution by punting it over here and then punting it back to this person over here to get the answer. That probably could just, you know, nobody's using the. So the sop. So it's. But how do you reel it back in? Like, how do you.
- [42:56]
A
How can you. Well, look. And we have to realize that some of these SOPs are, are created on. By anomalies. Anomalies create a whole new process. Right? You might have like 1, 000 customers. Something goes wrong at. So all of a sudden we have to come up with a whole new system and process for, for one out of like, you know, a hundred thousand. It's never going to happen. And then before, you know, you get layers and layers and layers of these things and it's, it's. It's ridiculous. Again, it's ridiculous. I think really have to. I think you really have to inspect the customer journey. Right? Have we. Have we made it difficult to do business with? Have we made it difficult to navigate through our. One of the things we did in our company? I'll give you an example. Okay. So we looked at our business. We had. And again, our bath business, our window business, our decking business, our kitchen refacing business. I looked at it as if that my marketing team was all about issuing as many appointments today as possible. My sales team was all about selling as many jobs as possible. My production team was responsible for installing all those jobs that they can today. Okay. And then internally I had my own internal supply chain that took care of that, was thinking about next week and next month. Okay. Was called our customer care department. And what we found is that like a customer might call in and the customer care department couldn't answer a question. So calls are getting transferred all over the place and. Which is a terrible customer experience, by the way. So we just started saying okay, instead of coming up with all these sop, let's document whenever, whenever a customer's phone is getting transferred, whenever we can't answer a call, let's write that down and see. Because that's really a sign of a lack of training inside of our organization. It's actually a sign of lack of empowerment. Somebody wasn't empowered to make a decision. And I think often that's what happens. I think what happens is people think they need SOPs to make a decision, but the truth is, you know, we, we just got to teach them how to make decisions whether or not there's an SOP in place or not.
- [45:01]
C
Yeah, it sounds so much easier when you just say it. This actually execute. But it's almost like you just kind of, kind of sit whiteboard with the right leadership and the customer Journey and, and for. And how it impacts each of the departments and what that journey should look like. Like. And a lot more goes into. And I think another factor plays into is all the tools that we have to use to the. You know, because. Yeah, you know, CRMs and sales systems and all kinds of.
- [45:28]
A
We had a really cool decision making training that we put together. It was really kind of fun. It was fun. We got a whole bunch of people room together and it would. It does now all have to be executive leaders. Could be at any leader that level. But we had a bunch of index cards and on each index card had a different scenario. There was some customer profile and some problem. Right. We pass them out. Okay. And you get, you pick it up. This is your problem. How would you deal with it? What, what would you do if this was your problem that was now in your lap, you know. And I think it was really helpful because people understand how decisions are being made and, and, and what things to kind of think about. Again, they're working that, that it's like a muscle, like any other muscle and they have to build the decision making muscle. And it was, it was a fun way to teach it.
- [46:10]
C
That's interesting. It kind of reminds me of like old school sales training where you have different objections, you know, on a. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But you're kind of. Yeah, it's. That's an interesting play. That'd be a great one to, to roll out and have on the fly. I mean, listen, nothing sucks more than in person training, like real live training. But it's like so. It works out so good that way. I mean, sometimes it's a harness, but it's also, I think the best learn. You're on the spot.
- [46:37]
A
Yeah.
- [46:38]
C
Okay. So I want to make sure I pivot a little bit to the, to the book.
- [46:42]
A
Yeah.
- [46:43]
C
So are you, are you guys good with that? I just want to.
- [46:46]
A
Yeah, I got to sit up higher so you can see the name of it.
- [46:48]
C
I see it on the shirt. Beyond that. I see it, I see it.
- [46:51]
A
I, I only got these shirts like a month ago. I'm like, why don't I have a freaking shirt with my book name on it? What kind of marketer am I?
- [46:58]
C
Hey, it's okay. You create an SOP for it. Reach out to the vendor.
- [47:04]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:05]
C
So real, real quick. Let's do a couple things. So beyond the Hammer is again the name of the book. I want to do two things. I won one. If you would just kind of explain like the overall or. I don't want to butcher it. But go ahead and explain the overall of what it's, what it's about.
- [47:19]
A
Yeah.
- [47:20]
C
And then, and then what does it actually mean to go beyond the hammer in, in business and in life. So maybe just kind of connect the dots there.
- [47:28]
B
Attention to the point listeners. Branding has never been more important. Is your brand in serious need of an upgrade? Do you have a new company and need a new brand but don't want to wait six months or pay a ridiculous amount to get it done? If your brand looks like everyone else's, well, guess what, you are everyone else. But Prolific, they build brands that dominate from the first Google search to the driveway. Prolific Brand Design can help you, you be more of you because you are the unique difference that sets you apart.
- [47:59]
C
From all your competitors.
- [48:00]
B
So let's be real for a second. Your brand is either winning you customers or costing you money. Just ask some of our clients like Ken Goodrich, Ishmael Valdez, my boy Chad Peterman, and even myself. Olympic Brand Design is the creative pros behind some of the best home services, logos, truck wraps, websites and natural now email marketing campaigns. Wouldn't you love it if your email marketing open rates were 30, 40, 50%. And don't go into the spam folder. Hell, that's how we roll at Prolific. So check them out at prolific brand design.com and ask for the to the point promo. Prolific Brand Design Be more of you.
- [48:42]
C
Be Prolific.
- [48:43]
B
Look, I've seen every new tech tool in the trades. When I first saw Contractor Commerce years.
- [48:49]
C
Ago, I thought cool idea.
- [48:51]
B
But will homeowners really buy systems and do estimates online? Well, they are big time. Summit Heating did over $500,000 in installs with instant estimates. Peterman Brothers is crushing it with their filter subscriptions. It's not theory anymore. It's actually happening. So yeah, Paul, Paul's not crazy.
- [49:15]
C
This is the future.
- [49:16]
B
The future is now. Go to contractor commerce.com and see it for yourself.
- [49:22]
A
Yeah. So look, first of all, the book was written. It's a leadership book. It's written for managers and leaders alike. That's exactly for the blue collar industry. That's exactly who it was written for. It was written to help them become better leaders and better managers for their team. To understand how. What does it take for an organization to win? How do I, how do I get everybody on the team involved in that winning process and everybody understands what winning looks like. The book, when I first started writing it. Quick story here. Okay. I started writing the book and I'm writing this thing and it took Me, two years to write. And after I wrote it, I'm like, this is like a regular leadership book. And I don't want it to be a regular leadership book. I needed to be. I needed to be sticky. I needed to be engaging. I didn't want to be preachy. So it's written. Half. The first half of the book is a business parable. It's a story of. And anybody that reads it feels like they punch him in the gut because he can relate to this character right away. It's a guy that owns a remodeling company. Things aren't going right for a whole lot of reasons. Pissed off customers, you name it. And anyway, so the first half of the book is a business parable where he learns these five pillars of leadership. The second half of the book is strategy and execution on how to plug these pillars into the book. It's very highly actionable. So it's. It's been wildly successful. When I came out with the book, I didn't know what to expect, but I think I just crossed 40,000 copies sold, which is pretty good, considering I've never written a book before. But. And it's also. I have to plug the. The audio version. I. I'm fine reading the second half of the book, but because I have different characters and it. I didn't want to try to do that. So I wanted the. The best narrator I could find to read my audiobook. And Morgan Freeman wasn't available, but Eduardo Ballerini, very, very famous narrator, he does a lot of James Patterson books. And I got him to read the business parable, and I read the second half. It's a fantastic audiobook. I promise you, you'll love it. It's a great textbook. It's a great book to read, but if you like audiobooks, it's. You got to download that. It's really good. I promise.
- [51:29]
C
I can't. I can't hardly read books. I have to listen to them. And even because I'm so, like adhd. The problem is, is that you'll be talking about one part in the book, and I'm immediately thinking about how that would look in my world. And I'm. Now, I didn't hear what you just said the last five minutes.
- [51:45]
A
That's right.
- [51:47]
C
And it happens to me all the time.
- [51:48]
A
Yeah, me too.
- [51:49]
C
I have to take. You know, I have to take notes when I read, otherwise I will forget them all. And. And they have to be short reads. And this is an easy read.
- [51:57]
A
So. It is. It is. And a lot of companies are using it as a book study. All their managers reading it and going through it together. That's. That's, I think, what's allowed the book to grow to the level that it has. So, yeah, it's really good. I appreciate it. Yeah.
- [52:10]
C
Well, like, I think you and I talked about this too. I. I've never, like, I've been asked to. To write a book. I have no interest in it, at least in this phase of my life. It's not even anything I. I want to do. Chad. Chad's. Chad. You've done one, haven't you? Didn't you do one or.
- [52:23]
D
I've done two. Yeah.
- [52:26]
C
Okay. So I just don't have, like, you know, it's not anything I'm interested in. But what inspired you to write in the first place? Is it just, like, did you start to get bored a little bit and you're like, you know, because you said you kind of want to leave a mark, you know, or great to get back, use your skill and is there a story that still gives you, like, you know, goosebumps when you. When you tell. That's a part of it.
- [52:49]
A
Yeah. The motivation was I'm. I'm never bored. Okay? I've got. I'm. I'm invested in a variety of businesses. I mentor plenty of people. But. But I wanted to, again, I wanted to give somebody something they can turn to and say, okay, this is something we all can relate to that was written for our industry that we can plug in and makes a whole lot of sense, you know, and. And make them better leaders and better human beings, you know? So. So the motivation was, again, I didn't do the P. L on a book. Is anybody that's ever written a book? That's not the thing you chase. Okay? You don't do it. You don't do it for the. For the P. L. But. But I wanted it to be. I wanted it to have impact, you know, I wanted it to have impact. And I feel, you know, the, The I'm. I'm so grateful that, you know, when people reach out to me and they tell me that they're. That the book has changed their business, it's changed the way they lead. It's changed the.
- [53:45]
C
The.
- [53:45]
A
The lives of the people on their team. That is, you know, that is. That is the ultimate reward. You know, that is the ultimate reward. And that means that it was. That that was doing what it was written for.
- [53:56]
C
Do you. Do you get to. Do you kind of. You're just talking a little about it but do you do. Got. So you have coaching people that you coach, right? You do.
- [54:03]
A
You.
- [54:03]
C
Are you doing that, or is it just people that you're kind of helping or like. Or is it, like a legit. No. Hey, we have a. Like, I have a business here. I go and coach people.
- [54:09]
A
Yeah. Oh. I mentor people. Okay. I. I have one business that they. One of my businesses that I'm involved in is a company called Finish, which is. It's myself. It's a group of other people. One guy is an M and A attorney. Another one is a cfo. Another one is gentleman by the name of Michael Hoy. He was the head of Great Day, which is a $1.5 billion company. And there's a. Brianna was a marketing person. We go. We meet with companies where they're. We're their virtual board of directors. So we act as a board for them and we meet them quarterly and help them shape their business for exit. Beyond that, I don't charge for consulting. This is not my thing. I don't want to be a paid consultant. I. That's not. Not to sound, you know, weird, but money won't move the needle in my life. I don't want to create voice. I just want to make a difference, you know, I'm happy to give back. People volunteer for all kinds of things. I'm volunteering for our industry. You know, that's. That's how I look at it, man.
- [55:05]
C
I'll tell you what. I heard so many people saying nice things about your presentation, you know, at the. A Vertical track event. And. And, you know, and that's the first time that I. I had met you, so, like, I could see where it's intriguing. But I've never heard you speak, you know, and. But I heard so many good comments, man, about the people, you know, telling me that. And. And I'm bummed I missed it, but I still. I was at work, so. But that's when, you know, I. I. Tommy was talking to me, you know, just about you in general, like, more stories. You. I was like, okay, like, I'm excited to meet with him. I. I think that. I think I'm actually going to. There's so many things that you're saying that I feel like I'm in that moment of business that I think I'm going to get the audio book and give this thing a go. And. And the thing that matters most to me is I actually need, like, I'm looking to say, hey, what are some. Like, what are the tactical things that I have to do or give to someone to do for me to fix xyz.
- [56:07]
A
That's right.
- [56:08]
C
If I can pull that from a, from a book, that's really what I need. I keep like, I remember reading Can't Hurt Me, which is the David Goggins book. And that was more like motivational kind of like. But it wasn't like tactical for me. Right. And I did listen to the whole thing. But I don't need those kind of books to be motivated. I'm motivated. I just need to know what are the tactical things that, that I can do to feel be better at this. Like, you know.
- [56:34]
A
Yeah. And you know, one of the pillars of the book is that. And this is, you know that is that leaders are aware of the echo of their voice.
- [56:41]
C
What are all the pillars of the book too? Just so we could hit on that.
- [56:43]
A
Yeah, sure. The first pillar is the concept that belief is transferable. If I'm going to grow a business, I have to grow people's belief system that they can actually do bigger things if I want them. That's the first step. Right. The second is the idea that leaders shape culture through purpose and direction. And how do you shape the culture of your business? You know, we talked about culture quite a bit. The third pillar is the idea that, that leaders are aware of the echo of their voice. In other words, your team is going to decide what kind of day they're going to have based on the type of day the leader or the manager is having. So, you know, what is our responsibility in all of that? The fourth pillar is that leaders model their business as a training organization and it's a good system and process on how to do that. And the fifth pillar is managers need a checklist. And that's the 10 practices of high performing managers. And I go deep into each practice on how to plug that into your business and how it'll actually drive results. So again, the parable is fun, but I think you need to get the audiobook. Trust me, you're going to love it. And let me know what you think after you listen.
- [57:47]
C
I'm telling you right now, I'm doing it. So I got more travel coming up and so it's a perfect time for me to listen to it when I'm on the plane, take some notes. And we're kind of going through this whole session right now, so maybe the timing is really, really good. Well, listen, maybe maybe real quick too, to kind of close this thing out too where if, I mean you have the audiobook version, but if they Want to buy the hardback? If you're old school and you like to highlight the book, like.
- [58:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, you can get either, either the hardcover or the, or the audiobook on Amazon, right. And, or Barnes and Noble for the hardcover. And then coming in December, it's gonna, we're in the airport run once already now back in the airports and all the Hudson books in the airports starting in December. So that's. Yeah.
- [58:27]
C
So assuming, assuming, assuming Amazon Web Services is working correctly. That was a fun day yesterday. Crap. Thank God we don't run all of our business on Amazon Web Services.
- [58:39]
A
Yeah, that's great. That's good.
- [58:41]
C
Listen, man, I really appreciate you giving us the time and coming on here, Brian. And you know, I would just say maybe as like a, a little parting, you know, a little parting word of wisdom to all of our home services, home improvement, you know, listeners, is, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're back at the old folding table, right? You're back at the old folding table. And give your, you can give yourself, you know, one good piece of advice. Yeah, and what, what, what would that be?
- [59:08]
A
It would be two pieces of advice. You know that the first bit is that, you know, when you, when you, when you stick with a plan and execute your wildest dreams, start to feel more like your destiny. And the second thing is that when you go all in on developing others, when you go all in on truly building people, that you will realize that the two most important days of your life are the day that you're born and the day you finally figure out why.
- [59:45]
C
That's pretty good, actually. Gave me goosebumps. I've heard that version before. We. Except the lead up to it was fantastic. That was a good job. I mean, I wish I could have heard your keynote. You have. I bet you because you're so high, you got high energy too. I bet you it was, you know, fantastic. Are they typically like 45 minute? 30. 45 minute keynotes. What are you, what are you usually doing?
- [60:05]
A
Yeah, that's, yeah, 45 to 60 minutes. I'll be on. I know Tommy's going to be out in Vegas next month. I will too. So I'm always, I'm all over the place. But you can always check out my website too, by the way. Brian got. Okay, go to briangotlieb.com, check out my website, say hi.
- [60:20]
C
You know, we'll put that in the show notes too. Hey, listen, if there's ever a time I can talk you into maybe coming and doing a little thing while you're out here in Phoenix with my leadership team. I mean the world to me.
- [60:30]
A
Love it. I would love to.
- [60:31]
C
It'd be funny shooting a shot that I never do. But you're. You're here sometimes anyway, so might as well.
- [60:37]
A
Yeah. Both you guys, thank you so much for having me on here. I really am very, very grateful and again, thanks for the impact that you guys make. It's really cool.
- [60:44]
C
Cool.
- [60:44]
A
So thank you.
- [60:45]
C
Chad, any closing words for Brian and before I close out?
- [60:47]
D
No, just I think I'll speak for all listeners as they listen to this. Just very grateful that you came on here. I've got four or five pages of notes and some great takeaways that I think anybody in any size business, any doing anything can. Can greatly benefit from. So thank you so much for your time.
- [61:06]
A
Perfect. Thanks, guys. Have a great day.
- [61:08]
C
I really appreciate you. Brian. To our listeners, you don't got to do everything, but you got to do something. No zero days.