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To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
From the Trenches to $30M and Enduring Loss No Parent Is Ready For
01:03:27
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to to the Point Home Services, the podcast where real contractors share real strategies. We cut through the noise and get straight to the point with the contractors that are working in the field right now. If you run a home services business and want to lead, better, grow faster and stay sharp, you're in the right place. Now, before we get started, I need you to do one thing. Only 30% of our listeners are following the show. So stop what you're doing, hit follow, and let's get to the point. This is to the Point a Rhino experience voted one of the top home services, marketing and operations podcasts.
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B
Cutting through the and getting to the point.
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A
Hey, what's up everybody? It's your boy, Chris. This is going to be a very, very powerful episode and for some of you listening, it might hit close to home. And if maybe not with you directly, maybe with someone that you know or that you're close to, who really needs to hear this message. Now this is one of my best buddies and he had overcome some crazy adversity as a, as a kid growing up and just like stuff you wouldn't imagine. Him and his wife Kelly built this very successful business out here in Arizona, ended up selling it to a Fortune 500 company a few years ago. They're still in the business, still running it, still involved in the day to day, but they had to overcome the unimaginable. Their 13 year old daughter a few years ago committed suicide at 13. Yet they still have these, you know, all these mouths to feed in this business in the midst of all this adversity, like it just so much pressure on them. And I mean, think about this is like one of the most tragic things that, that can happen. And in this episode we talk about it and Charlie opens up about what he went through, how they're able to get through it, how they, you know, cope with it today. And you know, our hope was with this story, this episode that it's not just a really great story of, you know, overcoming adversity and, and, and doing something good with a crappy situation. But that's the hope is that this lands with one of you listening who need this message right now, or you know, someone that needs this message right now so that way a really crappy situation can be used for good. And that's the hope of this episode. So enjoy this one with one of my best buddies, Charlie Sanders. Hey, what's up? To the Point listeners, it's your boy, Chris. We are in a new setting today. Actually we are in my house in my bourbon bar. That used to be the formal dining room here at Casa de Llano. But who needs a formal dining room when you can have a bourbon bar?
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B
Exactly.
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A
And this is going to be a really cool episode, actually. This is going to be a. This whole episode is going to be different than anything you've ever heard. I would say when I was preparing for this episode, it was probably one of the most difficult episodes I've ever prepared for. Which is crazy because I'm sitting with one of my best buddies.
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B
Yeah. I mean, you think it.
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A
And we got some bourbon. We should have started drinking before because then I could have been loosened up a little bit.
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B
Same.
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A
But what's crazy is that I think the what started, you know, what made me start to think about having you on as, as a guest was you before I kind of get into any other shit. Like we went to. So every year. So Charlie and his wife Kelly are one of our best friends, like our closest friends. So if you ever watch me on our social media page, people, the family that we travel with all the time, that's Charlie and Kelly. And so our family has been close a long time. And so we go on these trips, but every year we go to Castle Hot Springs, which is out here in Arizona. Cool ass old resort, like old western resorts that they refurbish. And now it's all super fancy.
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B
Yeah, first. First resort for us, by the way. Absolutely.
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A
Way too fancy first resort. So like, who was. The Rockefellers used to go out there and like Kennedy's. I think it was all kinds of cool people. But it's like in the middle of nowhere in the desert and there's a hot spring there. So. But ironically, Charlie, who's, who's our guest, I'll go over more of his stuff today. Who's also again, one of my best friends grew up out that way. And there's like nothing out there. It's like a fucking. Literally the desert. Like when you think of the desert, that's what it is. But I guess they call it Morristown. So.
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B
Yes.
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A
So we have designated Charlie the mayor of Morristown. But you. We were, we went out there in your razor and we're driving through like the wash in the middle of nowhere, you know. And you said, hey, like this is, this is where I grew up. And I'm like, where you grew up? Like, what the. What are you talking about? Dude, it's the desert and it's like a wash. So we get out and we look at it and you're like, you know, talking about, oh, Right here used to be like these little white rocks or like the, you know, the pathway or whatever it was. And I'm like, still trying to like. And by the way, producer Ryan, we like, we have to put a picture of this up. I gotta find the picture. Do you have a picture of it?
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B
I, I, I got somewhere I first originally I had the original house. A picture of the original house somewhere. I think we got a painting for the family.
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A
Was it an actual house? Like, it wasn't big.
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B
It was a, it didn't look. No, no, it was a, it was a one bedroom live living room area and a kitchen. That was it. But that was before they tore it down. That, that was all that was there.
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A
It's crazy. Well, they tore it down because there's nothing there.
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B
Well, correct. And it's BLM land, so.
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A
Oh, got it.
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B
Yeah. Our family had a 99 year lease, so that, that lease went up and they just said, yeah.
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A
Oh, well, that's a whole other topic.
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B
We're going to fix it.
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A
But you know, and that's why I was like, you know, you were incredibly successful and by all means and statistics, you shouldn't be. Right. And so I want to talk through some of these things. So many of you that are listening right now are going to relate on this, to put this podcast on so many levels. And that's why I wanted to do it. And you know, and, and Charlie's probably went through one of the worst strategies you can ever go through with the loss of a child. And you know, but as business owners of big companies, lots of people, like, it's like real life just met business and like, which one becomes a priority? How do you get through like all these things? Right? And, and, and us too. Right? I mean, because we, you know, obviously we had to deal with it too, but at least we got to go through this whole thing together. And just the way that you and Kelly worked through this whole thing was so admirable to me that I was like, this story is going to land with a lot of people. And so I wanted to tell it. So we're going to talk about a few things. Number one, we're recording this right before opening day for our beloved Arizona Cardinals to kick off against the Kansas City Chiefs here in the Valley. So I'm excited for that. And then so we are, we're going to go to the game tomorrow. We're going to celebrate. The girls are going to go with us and we're going to kick off the season. I pray to God the Cardinals actually have a good season, Right? That's number one.
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B
Show some improvement.
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A
I hope so. Anything like that. So that's, you know, number one. I know that. What's also cool is when, like, my, you know, I have, like, this, you know, circle of friends in business who some that have become. I've really, you know, become really close with, like, Tommy. And you've gotten to know Tommy and Tommy's, you know, they finally got season tickets right down there by us. So it's cool to kind of have the everybody mixed together. You went over for super bowl, dude, and you guys.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
That's when they had the shot loose.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.
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A
Infamous shot luge.
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B
We gotta. We got a hunt coming up.
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We got a hunt coming up that's right down in Texas, so that's gonna be exciting. That ought to be interesting.
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B
Learn a whole nother side of everybody. When you.
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A
Yeah, you go, well, Charlie is like. Charlie is like the. He's like the man's man of the group. Okay. And I'm trying to be as much as I can, but Charlie's my guy.
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B
I'm your guy.
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A
He's. He's one to make sure I have all my hunting apparel. But this is. All. This is going to actually make sense once I kind of walk through your story. So I want to share with all the listeners right now. You know what. What's going to be great about this particular episode is, you know, Charlie and his wife Kelly grew a. A big business, right? And you guys were in the, like, underground utility, know, space. You know, that's the fancy word for digging trenches.
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B
Trenches. Trench company.
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A
Trench company. You know, working with like, aps, some of the big, you know, but you built a great business. Like, you know, built this thing up to, I think close to like 30 million when you sold the business. And digging trenches. That's a shitload of trenches. To dig.
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B
A lot of trenches. It's a lot of trenches.
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A
And become the mayor of Morristown. But, you know, I just want to share a little bit with the listeners, you know, because I know they're always kind of interested in what does somebody's journey look like. And here's why I think this episode is going to be so key for you to hear again. Like I said, statistically, like, he should not be in the position that he's in, or maybe he should be because of what you learned and went through as a kid. So I want to take a little walk down memory lane with you if that's. So I talk about you growing up, you know, in the. In the middle of the desert. And when you would tell me about your like, you as a kid, you have, you know, you have this like little house in the middle of nowhere that's a wash. I can't wait till everybody sees a picture so they can kind of see what I'm talking about, you know. You had to take care of your brothers.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I mean, you had to drive. You're driving in fourth grade to get to the bus stop.
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B
Yeah, in fourth grade. Yeah. I mean where we went to school was. I mean it was nine miles away. So at some point there was. I was. Got to get the brothers to school.
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A
Yeah, well, why don't your parents take you? Because you're in fourth grade, bro. Right.
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B
My mom stayed there. My. My stepdad was a prison guard at Perryville. And so he just left on his schedule. It didn't matter what our schedule was, so.
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A
Got it.
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B
So sometimes. Or they would be gone. I mean, there were several times where I was in charge of the kids for a couple of days. The brother for a couple of days.
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A
That's incredible. And he wasn't very. It wasn't a very. Kind of abusive dude too, right?
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B
Oh yeah. Typical movie prison guard. Just imagine he's 6, 6 3, 6 4, 250 and damn pretty much acted like we were also prisoners.
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A
Oh, Jesus.
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B
So it was. Yeah, I mean.
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A
So one of those deals you had to walk on eggshells.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean it was. It didn't matter if we were walked on edge shells or we were being good.
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A
It was.
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B
We were always in the wrong.
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A
So that sucks. That's a shitty situation to me. And what's always crazy too is remember, you tell me because you play football, the. It being nine miles away from school is. And once football is over, then you had to walk night. You walk nine miles back?
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B
Well, yeah, because I mean if he. If we weren't. Where he parked, where we were supposed to be picked up at the time that he came home, he went on his way. Well, after football, I mean, I'm not getting home until 5 o', clock, so back to Morristown and from Wickenburg. And then. Yeah, then you had to walk. So I did that most my freshman season. And then by then I had my license and had started getting a car so at least I could get back and forth.
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A
That blows me away. Like nine miles is a journey. I mean, especially after practice, like after you.
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B
I mean it helped. It helped my conditioning. I mean I was. I was probably in Better shape than half the guys because, I mean, I was putting in a lot more work.
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A
See, what that. What do you mean for sure? What it makes me think of is, like, I think about your mental, like, fortitude, your mental toughness, because, like, you had no other choice. Like, here you are in the situation where you're almost having to grow up faster because you're having to take care of your brothers. You know, you're having to be responsible for yourself. You're having to, you know, worry about, you know, being abusive. You know, you just, you know, got being an to you guys, and now you're having to walk to school. You're playing football. I mean, I'm guessing you probably took some of that aggression out in football.
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B
Oh, absolutely. I mean, it was a great, great release. You know what I mean?
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A
Well, you know, and so the way I think about it is, like, when you're, you know, I come from, you know, I mean, I come from a very small town. Nothing like you. Like, I look like the Taj Mahal compared to what you came from, but you, like, legit grew up in this, like, poverty situation, crazy situation all the way around. And, you know, for most kids, it's hard when you're in that situation to be able to, like, dream big or, like, understand what's possible. Like, even coming from a small town, I struggle with it. Like, I had no clue I would accomplish what I did. Did until I got older and realized it was a legit opportunity. But when you're a kid, like, that was not an option. We didn't think about those things. Like, did you ever imagine that you had one? Like, even become a business owner when you were younger or be as successful as you guys have become?
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B
Yeah. Absolutely not. I mean, for me, it was. You don't know when you're in a bad situation, you don't know you're really in how bad the situation was until you get out.
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A
Yeah.
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And then you look back and you're going, holy shit. I put up with all that. Like, I mean, so. So, no, I mean, my plan was just to get out there, get on my own, get a decent job, that I could support myself and my family. And once I got that, it's like, okay, what's next? And it was always. For me, it was always, what's next? Okay, once I hit there, okay, what. What am I can. What can I do next? What's next? And then pretty soon, then you're like, okay, well, let's go. Let's go start our own business. And you're like, well, you missed.
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A
You skipped so much already.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
So. And that's fine because I want to talk about it. It's. It's. Because what I'm. What I'm getting at is I want people to hear that as shitty and poor as your situation is that you were able to accomplish so many things, but I want them to understand how it developed, your mental toughness. Right. So. So, because statistically you should not be where you're at. Right. But I, you know, like I was telling you ahead of the podcast was, I actually think. But also maybe, maybe you are because of the way you're able to. And you handle that, you know, all of that and then put it. Use it for good as you move forward.
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B
Right.
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A
And I think what it boils down to is a lot like me is we're just kind of willing to do the, like, do the work.
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B
Right.
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You know, and if that meant, oh, hey, we started a business, great. Looks like we just started a business and here we go.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So I just wonder, like, for you, is that. Was there something, like, different about you, you know, that, you know, that made that kind of set you apart from being that statistic, or was it like a mindset thing? Was it a person like, that kind of maybe helped you or like.
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B
Well, I mean, I think it was just the hard work. I mean, when we're living out there is hard work. I mean, we're hauling water. I mean, we're cutting wood, we're doing all these chores, and then you go to a 9 to 5 and you're going, okay, yeah, this ain't that hard. You know what I mean? This ain't, this ain't that hard. And I've dealt with worse than that. So it's just the toughness. You know, we see it today in the kids. It's. They don't have no struggles and they don't. They can't figure stuff out and they can't push through the hard times and hard things, which. That's what you need to do. That's the only way to get through it, is push through the hard. One thing you'll hear a lot from Bluon users, they've stopped ordering the wrong part. Derek from FH Fear used to trust vendors for parts, only to send his text out with the wrong one, costing time, money, and customer trust. Since bringing on Bluon, their misses have dropped to zero. He even says that if a mistake happens now, it's usually because someone didn't run it through Bluon. It's become essential to their parts process. And here at Peterman Brothers, we're definitely seeing that impact too.
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A
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- [15:31]
B
And grab a quick demo. It will be worth it.
- [15:36]
A
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B
Yeah.
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A
So I mean, but I also. You can also see how somebody would turn to drugs and just being an alcoholic and like that.
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B
And I mean we dealt with abuse, drug abuse and stuff throughout our family, both sides of my family. And. But that was one of the things, I guess maybe I seen that and I seen that it didn't work for those guys. So that's why I'm. I'm pretty for. I mean, yeah, I drink, but as for drugs, I stay away from that stuff. I see, I've seen what it does to people.
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A
People Y. And so you're like, you lose control when you, when you do that and it's like. Yeah. And I've seen what other people do. Like, I don't want any part of that. Yeah, yeah, that worked out good for you.
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B
Absolutely. I mean, so, I mean it kept me on straight and narrow for the most part.
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A
And Kelly and.
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B
Well, Kelly. 100, 100 the main driver there for sure.
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A
So I want to pivot to that real quick too. So you. So how were you when you and Kelly met? She was in high school. She was.
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B
So she was 16. I'm about a year and a half older than her. So I was right about 17, 18 years old. Yeah, she was a sophomore in high school.
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A
Got it. So you. And then you started working for. I think it was Klondike at the time. Was that.
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B
Well, that was before. So before I started where I had was working for a little plumbing company doing some plumbing and stuff. Once I started dating Kelly, her dad worked for Klondike and he's like, yeah, if you're going to date my, my daughter, you need to get, get a real man a man's job. You know, I'm like. And my father in law, I mean drill sergeant and ex cop. So there was no, no messing around with him. He's like, okay, this, this is what the path you're gonna take. Here you go.
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A
You. So you meet, you meet Kelly. But you're kind of down this path though of getting into that whole. Because actually what's kind of crazy is even like some of the family and the friends are all in the same business and we're even like competing against each other. Like they're competitive at companies doing trench.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
So, so you and Kelly, you have been together. You guys decide you're going to start your own, your own business and you guys co found Arizona Trench Company. And that's in 2013.
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B
2013, about September 2013.
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A
So we started. And what was cool is like, you know, kind of like Anna and I, when we started Rhino, it's your, you and Kelly's skills, like, you know, complimenting one another. So which was, which worked out, you know, really well. But you know, when you, when you're going through this, you know, when you guys have, you know, cj, you had hope and you have Maddie and you have like kids and you're trying to grow the businesses. Like how did you, how did you know, how did you guys balance, you know, like your relationship? I mean you're younger.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Your relationship, the business. Just like life in general, when really like everything's on the line and you're like, let's just go do it ourselves and. Right. And figure it out.
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B
Well, as for working with Kelly, I mean, we worked together since, since she got out of high school. I mean she's always been on the finance. I was always on the operations side. So when, when we started the business, I mean we had both pieces of the puzzle, so it was pretty easy for that. And then for us it was. I wanted to have something to leave to my kid. I want, we wanted generational. We to wanted, we wanted to make something generational. So, so when we started our company, I mean that was, that was the goal. And we knew, we knew especially first five, six years it was going to be hard. No vacations. I don't, I don't think we took a vacation for the first year and a half. Two years of business. Because not that we couldn't afford it or we didn't have the time. It was. We were so focused on mate. Because there was no option. We have to make this thing successful.
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A
There's no plan B.
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B
There's no. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we took out all of our retirement to start this thing and there was no plan B. Yeah.
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A
I love it. And to be a spoiler, ultimately these guys end up selling to a Fortune 500 company. You know, But I just want to share a couple of numbers.
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B
Yeah.
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A
On how the business like progress, which I think is cool because really you guys started, you know, in 2018, you're sitting at 7 over 7 million. You know, 19. You're sitting a little over 12 million. You guys had a hell of a jump from, you know, 19 to 20.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, another $10 million bump. Nearly 100%.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Growth. Almost. You know, and then all the way up until you guys, you know, exit. Well, I should say brought on your, you know, Quanta.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, as your main company in private equity. I guess it's not private equity.
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B
No. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. But they end up acquiring Arizona Trench, which you guys still run. But you and Kelly were the co founders. President. You present. You were the co founders and you were the president.
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B
Correct.
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A
Yeah. And you get a company like Quanta that's a. How many billion dollar.
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B
I mean, I don't even know at this point. I know. I know it's in the billion. It's like I think 25 billion something or something.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Is what we're going to be doing this year, which is crazy number. And. And they're everywhere. I mean, they're. Every state has two or three companies and they let everybody. Everybody runs independent. So you're not going to see a big quantity truck. It's going to be an Arizona trench truck. That's a quantum service company. Mirrors truck. That's a quantum service company. And everybody keeps their own identity, which is really cool. But altogether we're just.
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A
It's crazy to think that that 20, like 20 plus billion dollars and you're digging trenches, bro.
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B
Yeah. For our trench.
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A
Digging trenches.
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B
You know, they always say you're going to end up digging trenches for the rest of your life. Well, it paid pretty well for me. Sometimes it pays well.
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A
All you have to do is learn how to use a shovel. You remember when I did in your office one time, the Internet went out and I had to do a podcast in your conference room. And it was with Mario Camparano. He was. He was A Mexican trencher, like he did. Yeah, that guy in your office, he did trenching early in his career and then he had a great resident residential electric. Residential electrical business over in Southern California. But it was cool to kind of just see how I'd like the progression of your business grow and scale and to be friends with you along the journey, because you and I kind of went through, you know, the process at the same time. And you ended up selling before, you know, we did. Even though we started before you. Yeah, yeah, you got it done before we did. But it was like, what a. What a. Like what a gift for us to be able to go through it at the same time.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Oh, you know, I mean, and. And to be able to kind of celebrate together and then go through the post mortem together, you know?
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B
Yes, yes.
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A
Go through all those things. But it's interesting because, you know, you talk about you being really good operations and Kelly was good on the financial side. The difference was you. You also were in sales because you were having to go and sell jobs and stuff like that. I was really sales and marketing. I wasn't running any of the business. Anna was really operational and finances. Um, but I've learned, you know, from you, it is. I'm gonna. This is gonna make you uncomfortable.
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B
That's why I'm great.
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A
But one thing that I appreciate about you and why I think that. Why I think that you've been super successful is because, you know, when it comes to like networking, like business for network, like, I'm gonna go out and have to meet people for, like, that's not your thing, you know, you don't love that type of thing.
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B
Not at all.
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A
I can totally do it. You know, it's like, for me, it's nothing to go get dropped in the room and go make friends with people. I can totally do those things.
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B
I know. I envy that about you.
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A
You don't like to do it. But what's weird is you're actually really great at relationships. So, like, once you. If I made an introduction to one person, boom, you're off to the races. Because then you can have all kinds of conversations. And you're good because you're easy to talk to. And because we've had these conversations, I think what also is very helpful for you, and I have to believe some of the shit comes from, like, your past. But you're super intuitive, you know, you're smart, you're resourceful, which you have to be in business. You're super competitive.
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B
Absolutely, absolutely.
- [24:24]
A
We have this thing where when we go on our trips, we're called the Yanders, which is the Yano and the Sanders together. Charlie's last name Sanders. And then when we go to Castle Hot Springs, they've got, like, all these different little games and stuff, whether it be cornhole or golf, you know, or, you know, bocce ball.
- [24:39]
B
Yeah, whatever we can do.
- [24:40]
A
And so we have the Anders games.
- [24:42]
B
Yep.
- [24:42]
A
You know, now that we're getting older, we have to watch our ankles and our knees blown out. But you're super competitive, just, you know, just like me. The other thing is, like, you know, I appreciate values. You'll do. You'll do pretty much anything for anybody you really care about. About people. And I think the thing that it's most admirable is, you know, whatever you do, you're trying to do it the right way. Like, you don't want to. You don't want to screw somebody. You're trying to do it everything the right way. And. And people want to be led by you.
- [25:11]
B
Right.
- [25:12]
A
And that's a pretty cool feeling. And like, people want to be led by now you to look at it as like, well, I'm just kind of doing what I do. Like, this is just how I roll. But, like, what is it, man, that people just want, you know, like, why do people want to work for you? Like, what is it that you're doing that's so different, you know, that people. Because you and I are very different.
- [25:30]
B
Right? Right. So for me is I care. You know what I mean? And they can. They can tell when you care about them and not just what you're getting out of them. So, I mean, we care about our employees. I mean, we talk about it all the time. ATC is a family. It's ATC family. And we care. We care about your wives. We care about your kids. I mean, that was probably one of the most stressful things about having a company for me day to day was I have 200 plus mouths to feed. And so I took that very personal. I mean, there's stuff was. There wasn't no work. I'm scrounging and I'm calling people, and I'm leveraging all my relationships to like, hey, what do you got? And. And we love our. And we care about our client. We care about doing a good job for them and our reputation. You know what I mean? Because that, I think, pushed. That's. That's. That pushed all the growth is that whatever they need, our client needed, we were there for. Well, you.
- [26:26]
A
You're in like a Niche, too. Kind of like me. Like, you have, like, a super niche, though.
- [26:30]
B
Yeah, we're in a super niche, but. And it's all about maintaining those relationships and your reputation. I mean, everybody messes up. You go mess up, you own it, make it better, make it right. And so it's all about caring about everybody and just care about everybody. They see that, and they see that you're not out there just trying to get as much money as you can from the client or work these guys extra without paying them. Paying them a little more. You know, it's. Once they think they're taken care of. They were all in.
- [27:04]
A
Yeah. They're not going anywhere.
- [27:05]
B
No.
- [27:06]
A
Yeah. I mean, and. And it has to be, like, authentic 100%. It just gets harder when you get so big, like, when you have so many people, like, I remember coming to your Christmas parties, you know, over the years and, like, seeing it. This thing grow and kind of like you've been to ours and seen the same thing.
- [27:21]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:21]
A
It gets. It gets fucking hard. Once you get really big, it gets really hard.
- [27:24]
B
But if you can push that down to your leaders below you, and we're all. You're all. We're all in the same group, so. And now I'm trying to. I have to just keep pushing that into my leaders and make sure they're pushing it into the next level. You know what I mean? It's just got to all push down, because if I care about them, then they're going to care about their guys and so on and so forth. But it does get hard. It gets hard to know everybody's name like we used to.
- [27:49]
A
Sure.
- [27:49]
B
We were 30, 50 employees. Yeah.
- [27:52]
A
So you got to rely on your. On your leaders, who are actually, like, a little bit closer to all the people. Totally agree. I mean, and. And you've got nobody to hold you accountable except you and Kelly holding each other accountable.
- [28:02]
B
Yeah.
- [28:02]
A
But there's nobody really holding you accountable for anything. So you just kind of got to go and do things so real quick. I mean, you guys saw such, like, great success, you know, and that massive, you know, 100% jump from, you know, 12 to 22 between 19 and 20. I mean, in Covid. Which is crazy. And then to kind of, you know, keep growing from, you know, 22. You had that, like, 20 to 20, 20. 20 to 20. 21 was a smaller growth, which we're going to hit on.
- [28:30]
B
Yeah.
- [28:31]
A
Then he hit, you know, hit up to 28 million and 35. But you sold, you know, 28, which is big. Big, big ditch digging business.
- [28:40]
B
Yes, yes.
- [28:41]
A
But once you guys did your, did your deal, was it harder, was it harder letting go than, than you expected? I mean, what emotions came with it with.
- [28:51]
B
So yeah, I mean it's. Anything you build, especially from like what we did was ground up, I mean where we started with five people in my garage at our, my house, you know, and built it into 100 plus employees by the time we had sold. And it's always hard to give up something. You, you've grown, right? What I was, we were lucky about is, I mean that was, it's one of the reasons we sold Iguana is they, their, their offer let us keep running our business the way we ran.
- [29:23]
A
It before and just support.
- [29:24]
B
You just support it. I mean, obviously when you go from publicly or independent to private or publicly traded, there's other avenues that you gotta, you gotta be in compliance with. But other than that stuff, still the same company, we just, I just got to answer to somebody now.
- [29:42]
A
Well, you have to try and maintain the culture of the business too. And they allow you to do these things for sure. Because that was a whole other thing. Right. Because everybody always expects the worst.
- [29:48]
B
You know, for me, and I mean, I mean I. One of our biggest discussions early in on with our employees, they were, was when every Monday morning we have a safety meeting and we pray, we pray as a group. And they were worried that corporate was going to shut that down. And corporate's like, no, you guys do your thing. You know, you guys do what you do. I mean, obviously we can't ostracize anybody or leave anybody left up. But it's open. You want to pray, you pray. If you don't, you don't. It's, it is what it is. But I mean it's the little things that we were able to hold on to that quant is like, hey, you guys are your own people.
- [30:29]
A
Seems like a really cool situation because like you, you know, you get to celebrate what you've built by bringing on Quanta yet you, you know, and get some nice financial security. But then you still get to like, you know, we still have kids in school, so we gotta keep going. Like what are we gonna do? Yeah, so you get to keep going and you kind of still get to run it, but now you get to run it with a lot of extra support, help buying power, like all kinds of cool stuff. But, but the most important thing you said that was that you picked the right partner. This is where a lot of people go sideways.
- [30:59]
B
Absolutely. I mean it wasn't the best offer or the biggest offer, but it was for sure the best play for me and Kelly and my guys. I mean, the opportunity with Quantum. I mean, obviously, we're in every state in Australia, Puerto Rico. Like, we're everywhere. So, I mean, that's why a lot of our stuff's branded ATC now, because we're in Colorado, we're in New Mexico. I mean, we're up. We're not just Arizona Trench Co. Or we're trench company.
- [31:27]
A
A trench company.
- [31:28]
B
Trench company. And so. So, yeah, I mean, we would have never, never in a million years thought that we were going to be outside of Arizona. But with quantity, hey, we got this opportunity. What do you. You want it? You got this opportunity, and so you start going, yeah, sure. And that's how you grow. I mean, that was. That was kind of one of our reasons for selling was. Is I got it to a point where I didn't know. I didn't think we could get to that next big level without some help.
- [31:58]
A
Yeah, I get it.
- [31:59]
B
Especially being a niche. You know what I mean?
- [32:01]
A
Do you still think that?
- [32:04]
B
Yes and no. Yes. Because we would have just stayed in our little cocoon, our niche work, and that's where we would have stayed, where now we're expanding into substations and some other work that we would have never chased out. Out of state work, which we would have probably never chased before. Quana and Quanta's like, no, why don't just come up here and do this. I'll be in Denver all next week for our big project that we're doing up in Denver with a sister company.
- [32:32]
A
Yeah.
- [32:33]
B
So never. We would have never done that with.
- [32:34]
A
Yeah, man. I kicked that whole thing around, too. It's like. And I actually do think that. But you don't know. You don't know. Right. And you think you're making it very really, like, you're. You're making the best decision you can make with the knowledge that you got. Right. And, like. And I think these last few years for me have been some of the hardest for me because I had to, like, learn how to what, like, my purpose needed to. Had to shift because the business is now an investment, but I care about the employees and the customers, and it's like. So I have to shift with it. And you basically kind of got to fight a little bit, right, to make sure you get to maintain those things. And. And by the way, like, the business is great. It's just that I personally was like, man, how do I fit into this Puzzle when you're used to being, you know, of this thing. But I learned so much these last couple of years, you know, and that I do believe I could have that and I could have done this without private equity help at this. I do believe that at some point we would have needed to. But you don't know. Right, right. And by the way, like my private equity company, you know, is supportive of us, you know, and we're kind of getting back, you know, on track. Yeah, you've, you obviously know all about everything for, you know that we go through to tell you everything, but nothing like you guys went through.
- [33:47]
B
Right.
- [33:47]
A
So I want to, I'm going to make a hard transition. So let's take a drink first. I'm drinking Knob Creek maple syrup. Knob Creek smoked maple. What are you drinking?
- [33:58]
B
I'm drinking Eagle rare.
- [34:01]
A
Yeah. Okay. I know you don't like this, the maple stuff and normally I don't either. But this one is one I really like. So this is going to be a pretty hard transition to. And it's. And just everybody that's listening knows too, like this is a pretty hard pivot and it'll probably be the, I think the most difficult part of the conversation because this is far more difficult than anything else that like his childhood that he came up and how or how he grew up. But it's such an important part to the story because as we sit here today, you work under a Fortune 500 company that bought a company that you started from scratch. You and Kelly started from scratch, built into this great business and you could still continue to scale. And you guys are both extremely valuable leaders. Fortune 500 company. You guys are very valuable people. So you mean a lot to this big ass company who has tens of thousands of employees. Like some crazy number.
- [34:48]
B
Yeah, I think we're 60,000 employees.
- [34:50]
A
Okay. So a little bit more than 10,000.
- [34:51]
B
Whatever.
- [34:52]
A
20 some odd billion dollar organization. That's got to feel pretty damn good.
- [34:56]
B
Absolutely.
- [34:57]
A
But you know, I say that knowing that, you know, once you get, when you're going through all this, it's already hard enough. And then back in it would have been March 1st of March 1st of 2021, probably the most, if not the most difficult day of your entire life by far. So you, you mean that's when you're, that's when your life would change forever. Now obviously you have not sold the business at this time. You're still, you're in it.
- [35:24]
B
We were, yeah, we were mid acquisition when, when this happened and yeah, so. And obviously that put Everything on hold, but you're. I mean, you're just reeling.
- [35:32]
A
I'll. I'll never forget it. I. I can. I know exactly where I was when I got this phone call. And this is one of those situations where I get a phone call, and my wife tells me that, Hope, your daughter, Berkeley's best friend. Berkeley's best friend, My daughter's best friend, has passed away. So, you know, and it's something to where I was like, what? She's 13, you know, and March 1, 2021, beginning of the year. And. And. And the thing that no one likes to talk about and you don't quite understand is how someone dies. People automatically always wonder, like, how did they die? What happened? You know, and people don't like to talk about suicide, but it's a thing that has to be talked about. It gets swept under the rug so much because of the stigma attached to it.
- [36:25]
B
Absolutely.
- [36:25]
A
And the hardest part for me, for you, is that you are the one that found her.
- [36:31]
B
Correct?
- [36:32]
A
Right. Nothing else matters in that moment except for, like, that. That is it. Like, how do we fix this? And you, who are naturally a fixer, that's what you grew up in that space. You can't fix that.
- [36:51]
B
There's no fixing.
- [36:52]
A
There is no fixing that situation. And anybody who's listening to this, who's ever been through it, can completely relate to Charlie or if you know, a friend, you know, you can relate. I mean, my God, like, to us, she was a daughter, so we felt it.
- [37:04]
B
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [37:06]
A
And, you know, and it was heartbreaking for us, and having to tell Berkeley was like.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah.
- [37:11]
A
Awful, right? Like, having that was. Was awful. And so we. We all got to go through it, you know, together, but I just can't. In that moment, though, you know, I wondered a few things, you know, as we went through, like, the days and the weeks moving on, I was like, how. You know, like, these guys have all. You know, I get. We have. We all have our personal lives, but they also have a big business with a lot of people relying on them. And you can take a little bit of time, but, like, what's this thing gonna look like for them? Are they gonna recover from it? I don't know that I could recover from that. But, like, maybe just talk through. What was that time like for, you know, for you. You know, you, Kelly, the family and, like, the company, because you had that little company, didn't grow a whole bunch between 20 and 21. Like, you're dealing with all this stuff. Maybe just kind of talk through like the raw. Like what? What? How did life go for you at that point? Across the board? What's up to the point listeners? If you're working with the marketing agency to drive traffic, what happens when a customer lands on your website? Contractor Commerce helps top contractors like Summit Heating who generated over $500,000 in new install revenue using instant estimates for H vac systems, water heaters and generators right on their website. And companies like my boy Chatty Peas, Peterman Brothers are building recurring revenue with a touch free filter delivery program powered by Contractor Commerce. Rhino brings the leads. Contractor Commerce helps you close them. It's a good one two punch. Visit contractor commerce.com to start E commerce today. In home services, speed to lead is everything. Chirp stands out. By transforming your communication strategy with Chirp, accelerate your lead response time with instant sms, text messaging, email and ringless voicemail automation. Chirp's cutting edge technology ensures you're the first and the most persistent, helping you close more deals than ever. But that's not all. Say goodbye to missed opportunities with Chirp's incredible follow up system. Keep your leads engaged and moving smoothly through your sales funnel without lifting a finger. And with Chirp deep integrations with top CRMs like Service Titan, Housecall Pro and Jobber, you can launch laser targeted campaigns to connect with the exact right leads at the exact right time. Automation creates efficiency. Efficiency unlocks scale ability. With Chirp, you can automate speed to lead estimate follow ups, rehash abandoned call follow ups, canceled job follow ups, review requests outbounding to your list, annual reminders, membership expiration, follow ups and so much more. So stop chasing leads, capture them, connect faster and close more deals with Chirp. Contact Chirp today and elevate your communication game.
- [40:12]
B
I mean, I mean we went on autopilot. I mean like this was a Monday more or Monday afternoon. I think we, we didn't even, we didn't care about, I mean we didn't care about the business. We didn't care about anything. We couldn't, we couldn't focus on anything other than our family at that time. I mean we still have two kids that we got to take care of and do that, but we're just on autopilot. I mean, thank God we have our ATC family. Everybody, everybody just jumped in and covered, covered us. Our client, our client was understanding. I mean I have personal relationships with a lot of our client. So once they heard, they're like, yep, we get it. My phone stopped ringing. Everything went to my number. Twos and threes and we're all. We'll all. They all work. Our client worked with our. Our employees to make sure that a lot of the stress was off of us. And they will get. We'll get through it. And they kind of took it over there. I mean, I think we were gone a month, I think, before I actually stepped back in. Once we were able to get Hope buried and everything else, and we're. Then we went back. And at that time, none of those guys are. Are with us or salespeople or. Or so our work was dwindling down. And. Which kind of helped me because then that kind of lit a fire, like, hey, I got to get back and I got to go do my job. Which was a great break from day to day thinking about a Hope. And, yeah, it got my mind off of it a little bit, so that it for sure helped push me in the right direction.
- [41:52]
A
You know, I think that. I think I'm. I would be guilty the same thing. But I also think it's unhealthy, like, because you. You basically just mask it with work.
- [42:02]
B
Yeah, I'll just work. Yeah.
- [42:03]
A
I've done that so many times and. But I get it. Like, my God, well, what else can you go do? Just get hammered the whole time or like Matt, like, that's all people do.
- [42:12]
B
Right.
- [42:12]
A
Right.
- [42:12]
B
I mean, and with my family background that, I mean, I. I didn't drink. I didn't drink for. Until Hope was. Everything was settled with Hope because I was afraid to go down that rabbit hole. And I don't know if I would have been able to get out had I. Yeah.
- [42:28]
A
Yeah. That's good. I mean, well, you know, and it's. It is. It is hard because when you. Especially when you have other. Other kids, you got, you know, two others.
- [42:38]
B
I got two other kids I gotta worry about.
- [42:39]
A
Yeah. And you gotta think about that. And you have to be there for Kelly. She's gonna be there for you. And, like. And if you guys aren't, like, there for each other, there's no way you can be there for your team, your employees. Absolutely. But the thing is, for me is I just can't even imagine that you. You know, like, you know, I. I think that the thing that probably breaks my heart the most for you is that you will never be able to get the visual out of your head of that situation.
- [43:07]
B
Yeah.
- [43:08]
A
So you have to. And this is where I'm actually also grateful that you have such good mental fortitude, is I think some of those things early on in your life in some weird ways. Have prepared your mental toughness for. Not that this is like, I wish it would have went or you. Like that was gonna happen.
- [43:24]
B
Yes.
- [43:25]
A
But at least you have, you have, you're super strong, you know, and, and because it's. It would be difficult, you know, to kind of get back on track because it would take one, you know, thought and you're like, right back down that damn path. 100, you know, and, and, and I, you know, only reason I bring it up is like, obviously it's hard, but the worst thing we could do is not talk about it. You know, one thing that you, One thing that you said to me, like, you know, because obviously we were trying to make sure we checked in on. On you guys and. And nobody wants to talk about it.
- [43:53]
B
Yeah.
- [43:53]
A
You know, because. And not because they don't want to talk about it, like, to be mean. It's just nobody knows how. Or the awkwardness of bringing it up or how you're going to feel.
- [44:02]
B
Is it going to hurt worse? Is it going to help or is it going to hurt?
- [44:06]
A
Yeah. And there's office like this. There's often like this stigma around suicide that's like, you know, it's like maybe regret or like not maybe not regret. Well, you probably have some regrets or like, what could I. Or shame.
- [44:19]
B
It's all. Yeah. You're always going to go down the what if rabbit hole and you just can't because it doesn't, it doesn't help because you're always going to go down the. Well, if I would have done this, if I would have done that, what about this? What about that? Especially with hope. Because there was no signs, like.
- [44:34]
A
Right.
- [44:34]
B
We didn't know. We knew nothing.
- [44:35]
A
Right.
- [44:36]
B
So we were like totally in left field. Like, we had no clue. I mean, you remember earlier, like, we kind of. Unfortunately, we were kind of badgering Berkeley because Berkeley was her closest friend. Like, did she say anything? Did you know anything? She didn't say nothing. Anybody, from what I can.
- [44:55]
A
Right.
- [44:55]
B
We can find. So. So that's, I mean, so that just leaves all the open, but you just can't do it because it just doesn't help. Nothing helps.
- [45:04]
A
Hey, beat yourself up. The what ifs. Yeah, well, beat yourself up. Yeah. And it was, you know, for those that are listening, like, I'm talking about great family, like, nice home, kids, didn't want for anything. Like, I'm talking love. Like, it was like, it's not like, just like you bought that. Like, you guys were a very, very, very close family. We were close. Like, we're all close.
- [45:25]
B
Yeah.
- [45:26]
A
So it was like completely out of left field, which is a whole other thing. You got to try and figure out like, what in the hell, like, where did this come happen?
- [45:32]
B
Yeah.
- [45:32]
A
You know, and you just have to like be okay with never actually having the answer. And that sucks.
- [45:38]
B
Yes.
- [45:39]
A
And all this at the same time while you're trying to manage a, you know, 20 plus million dollar, you know, company with a lot of people who rely on you. And the fact that they step up and help you is great. Says a lot about the culture of the business, of people in your business.
- [45:55]
B
Yeah.
- [45:55]
A
But even that fizzles out. At some point the business has to thrive. But, but you see like by the results, like the year was just kind of meh. Took you a minute to kind of, to kind of get back on, on board. Yeah, but what was it that, like, what was it that helped from others the most? Like, at some point the worst thing I do is probably the worst thing that you do. Like, I keep so much shit just bottled up and I don't talk about anything to anybody and I just take it, which is so unhealthy. I still struggle with that from time to time.
- [46:21]
B
It is and it is. I mean, we're the men. I mean, that's our. Unfortunately that's our job. I mean our job is to make sure everybody else is. And for me, what helped me was, is I still have to take care of them. Like I need to make sure they're okay. My stuff. I mean, I'm the man. That's my job. But what helped us the most was, I mean, you were there are. My family and friends surrounded us for weeks, months.
- [46:49]
A
Right.
- [46:49]
B
And we were, they were, everybody was around taking care of anything we could possibly need.
- [46:55]
A
Need.
- [46:56]
B
Just trying to make especially the first couple weeks easier. Just being around people helped, you know, but you know, I mean, all you, all you, all of our friends, all of our family constantly being around us just helped us get. Get moving past it.
- [47:14]
A
Yeah. Well, and, and I think that one thing that's always helpful, at least that I can remember talking to Kelly about this too NTU at dinner one night and it was talking about how. Just talking about stories of Hope. Like, yeah, she always had that stupid like bun on top of her head that flopped around all over the place. Floppy Bun and, and you know, we all call her Hope. He won Kenopi. Well, I had her names for her or you know, we go on, you know, our trip to Hilton Head, you know, and the girls are up until like Daylight in the room, messing around. We're all pissed at them, but at the same time, we're all kind of like, that's kind of the shit that.
- [47:50]
B
You do when you're on vacation. Memories that they were.
- [47:53]
A
Yeah. And. And I'm glad that we had that, like, with her. So it is fun to, like, reminisce and talk about those stories. I wonder, you know, if. If Hope could hear this interview.
- [48:05]
B
What.
- [48:05]
A
What do you think? What do you think? What do you think she would say about, like, the man or, like, the. The person that you've become since then? Because, you know, like, we have to believe she can, you know, she can see all what's going on. Like, and. And if she is, I hope.
- [48:22]
B
Yeah.
- [48:24]
A
I hope you know how awkward this makes your dad.
- [48:25]
B
Yeah.
- [48:26]
A
But, like, what do you think that she would think about, like, who you've become since then?
- [48:30]
B
I mean, I'm hoping she. She knows that. We're trying to keep her memory alive. I mean, we're trying to. Trying to make sure that everybody knows about her, what she was about. I mean, what really matter is that we're prioritizing God, and our family is number one over everything else.
- [48:51]
A
Yeah. I mean, and. And I think we do that by continuing to share stories with her and, you know, and thank God this is where Facebook's great.
- [48:59]
B
Yeah.
- [48:59]
A
Because you repost all the stories and the stuff all the time.
- [49:02]
B
All of her stuff keeps popping up.
- [49:04]
A
Yeah. I. And, like, so. And then. And it's. And then as you see the. You know, the friends get older.
- [49:10]
B
Right.
- [49:10]
A
You kind of saw that connection through. You know, I mean, last.
- [49:13]
B
Last year. I mean, all of her friends graduated. She was supposed to graduate. So we were at a lot of graduation parties last year with. For all. Celebrating all of her friends, and it was good. I mean, obviously would have been better had we been.
- [49:27]
A
Right.
- [49:27]
B
Worried about getting to our graduation party also.
- [49:30]
A
Of course. Well, and Berkeley, you know, this. Berkeley put on her tassel, you know, her picture of Hope on there. So, like, those are the kind of things that's, like, good for you guys. Absolutely. For us.
- [49:41]
B
Oh, it was. I mean. Yeah.
- [49:42]
A
You don't care about her for sure. Did you.
- [49:46]
B
Did.
- [49:46]
A
Did your priorities, like, as a business owner kind of shift after that moment? Like, you know, did grief. Did going through all that or grief or, like, just, like, the outcome of it change the way that you view, like, success or, you know, your legacy, if you've ever thought about that, or just even, like, your value of time? Like, did it change any of Those things for you, you're kind of like, oh, I kind of went into it and this was my why now? My why. Is this like any of that stuff shift?
- [50:13]
B
Yeah, I mean, for us, it actually shifted our focus on that. We need to. I need to make sure that I'm spending more family time and I needed to get the business. I need to get the business where I can step away and enjoy the vacations and the stuff that we do together as a family. Because at the end of the day, that's what's the most important. Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, so it shifted that way. Obviously, you know, me and Kelly and it's hard for us to let go of some of the pieces, but we started backfilling those pieces of leadership right below us and letting go get some more stuff of off our plate so that we could enjoy those.
- [50:55]
A
Yeah, you shifted because you just never know.
- [50:57]
B
You never know.
- [50:58]
A
You just never know. And actually, I think for us too, it was also good for me and Anna and our family because it also made us shift. Like, man, we've been grinding, you know, and. And we need to do the same thing. And these kids aren't getting any younger. So that was also like a pivot. And I'm proud because we go on so many awesome trips.
- [51:16]
B
We're going on a lot of trips. Yes, we are lords.
- [51:21]
A
So I and Charles are both lords because we are landlords in Scotland, Cumbria, and you know, it might be three by three foot piece of land, but we are lords. And, you know, that was. That was a fun trip. So we've been able to, you know, do. Do a lot of fun stuff and create a lot of cool memories together from this, which I think is also a gift that was given to us from home.
- [51:48]
B
Yeah.
- [51:50]
A
Was, you know, we're. We're going out and we're like, living like, we're living life. You know, we're doing all the things and we're getting Kelly out of her comfort zone a lot more.
- [51:57]
B
Yes, yes. We're letting Kelly get little. Little freer.
- [52:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's good. I love it. I mean, she's. You're welcome, Kelly, by the way, because I know she'll listen to this and then critique everything I'm saying.
- [52:09]
B
Well, you'll hear about it.
- [52:12]
A
But like I said, I kind of look at that as like, that was just a little bit of another gift that, you know, that we got. I wonder, you know, did you ever. When all this was going down, did you ever consider of, like, just walking away from it all Just saying. I mean, done.
- [52:31]
B
Yeah.
- [52:31]
A
I mean, I don't know how you can't. Honestly.
- [52:33]
B
No, absolutely. So. So, I mean, I didn't know if we were going to be able to go. I mean, so. Yeah, I mean, I didn't know how, especially that first month. Like, I'm, like, I didn't know if I could go back to work and I mean, would I. Would I be there even if I was at work? Am I going to be the same? You know? So we pushed harder into the acquisition because then I needed to make sure that everybody ATC was okay. You know what I mean? No matter if me and Kelly kind of fall off the deep end, at least they get. There's somebody to come back, fill and make sure that they get through this. But as we kept going, it's like you said, I mean, it's our reputation. So we just got back into the grind and then, I mean, we don't want to disappoint anybody, you know, And I made a commitment to Quantum and I want to make sure that we. We did our part. So that kind of helped me push through those, like, push through the hard times, because that's the only thing you can do. Just keep push.
- [53:33]
A
Yeah, I think that's pretty thoughtful, you know, to go through something like that, but still kind of be thinking about how you leave everyone else.
- [53:40]
B
Right.
- [53:41]
A
You know, and like, securing the future. I mean, obviously quant is publicly traded and I'm a. I have stock in Quantum. Keep. Keep doing what you're doing. I appreciate it so much. We did that because of you. We believed in atc.
- [53:55]
B
We appreciate you.
- [53:57]
A
You know, but it is, you know, in some ways, though, too. It's like you do kind of get back into a routine, you know, and. And I think routines can be good. I think routines can be bad. But once you're back in that routine, you kind of just are like, you know what? Like, we might as well just keep going and seeing what else we can do and accomplish and. Yeah, seems like that's what you like, what you guys have been doing, for sure. So I. I just, you know, I wonder. I figure we should use this opportunity because, you know, hopefully 30,000 some odd people hear this, this episode.
- [54:30]
B
Yeah.
- [54:30]
A
Pretty cool. Is there something about Hope or her spirit, her heart or her story or anything that you want people to remember her by her or who don't know her, like, know about her? Like.
- [54:43]
B
Yeah, I mean, she was just. She was so loving and innocent. She was one of those ones. She's fragile. She was like super fragile girl. I'm. She would get in trouble for doing. Leaving her clothes out, this and that. I have to raise my voice. It's. She's in a room just crying, not. And not throwing a fit, not yelling, not screaming. Just in there. And then I'd have to go in and like, hey, it's not that big of a deal. I mean, we just gotta. We just gotta put our stuff away, we gotta do our homework, whatever. Whatever the case would be. But like me raising my voice, we're just like breaker. But she was just so gentle, so caring. I mean, she loved her pets and her and her friends. Like, she. She loved Big for sure. Yeah, she's all about the love.
- [55:32]
A
She was super sweet and like, once you could get like, you had to be closer to her, I think, to get her to open up a little bit to you for sure, you know, and when you did, you kind of got a pretty cool version, you know, of her. But yeah, she's total sweetheart and, you know, she. She looked like you a little bit.
- [55:50]
B
She did. She was my twin for sure.
- [55:52]
A
Maddie looks like Kelly.
- [55:54]
B
Poor girl. Look like me.
- [55:59]
A
Sorry for the interruption to the point listeners. Have you heard of Rilla? Are you using Rilla yet? If not, are you Farilla? Shoot, I did. There. Rilla is the leading speech analytics software for the trades. It is on a mission to bring physical ride alongs to an end. You can coach your reps with virtual ride alongs now that are a hundred times better, faster, and much more efficient than the physical ones. All you got to do is use the killer Rilla. That's R I L L A. Relax. Attention to the point listeners. Branding has never been more important. Is your brand in serious need of an upgrade? Do you have a new company and need a new brand but don't want to wait six months or pay a ridiculous amount to get it done? If your brand looks like everyone else's, well, guess what? You are everyone else. But Prolific, they build brands that dominate from the first Google search to the driveway. Prolific Brand Design can help you be more of you because you are the unique difference that sets you apart from all your competitors. So let's be real for a second. Your brand is either winning you customers or costing you money. Just ask some of our clients like Ken Goodrich, Ishmael Valdez, my boy Chad Peterman, and even myself. Prolific Brand design is the creative pros behind some of the best home services, logos, truck wraps, websites, and now email marketing campaigns. Wouldn't you love it if your email marketing open rates were 30, 40, 50%. And don't go into the spam folder. Hell, that's how we roll at Prolific. So check them out at prolific brand design.com and ask for the to the point promo. Prolific Brand Design. Be more of you. Be prolific. Yeah, I, you know, it is. I mean, this is the kind of part of it where I just kind of sit here and I think through like all the good memories I have of her and then being kids. Oh, by the way, fun fact, you'll remember this because this is how Charlie and I, I met. Well, I'm not gonna tell the whole story, but yeah, we are kids with the North Valley Christian Academy. And you know, the girls were young. I mean, they were right girls. And so we're at a father daughter dance. I think it was like. Yeah, I can't remember if we were. It was like the 50s or whatever.
- [58:20]
B
Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, 50s sock hop or something.
- [58:23]
A
The girls were friends that we had. You know, we hadn't like quite met yet. I remember asking Charlie, who's this big like tough man's man guy? And here I am trying to be funny, say, well, you want to dance?
- [58:34]
B
And he said, nope.
- [58:37]
A
I was like, okay, this guy is not, he's, he's, he's not picking up on my jokes. Okay. But then, you know, it was funny because then from there, like we hung out. One, we, like the first time we hung out, it was. I can't remember if I was reach out on Facebook. And then Kelly researched me, like she would always do and find out, like, who is this guy? Can we really hang out with him? Is this somebody we can hang out with? Because.
- [58:57]
B
Right.
- [58:58]
A
You know, never know like if they're gonna, if we're gonna work out. Yeah, it's a Christian school. And then it turns out that night we hung out for what, four or five some odd hours.
- [59:07]
B
I think you guys came to Druck Berkeley. Off, off at 8, 9 o' clock and 3 o'. Clock. We round closed it. Closed her down.
- [59:16]
A
That's how he knew it was.
- [59:17]
B
But it just went, it went smooth. It was, you know, and when you're having a good time, you don't want it at the end.
- [59:23]
A
Yeah, man. And that's cool. And so I'm, I'm, you know, I think that I'm just grateful for everything. Like, we're so thankful for you guys on like so many different levels and like, you know, with our, to our listeners, I really hope you have somebody in your life that's like, that too. And, you know, and maybe not necessarily it's went through what Charlie's went through, but, you know, somebody that you're close with that you can kind of share things with, do life with, because at the end of the day, like, all this hard work on this business and stuff has got to be more than just business. Like, it's like, what is it applying to your life? Like, your livelihood, your personal life, your memories, like, all the things that actually really matter. Yeah. You know, and the. And. And, you know, one thing that you could have done, you and Kelly both could have done, is you could have folded. You know, you could have folded and people would have understood, you know, or you could have just been, you know, went through it, maybe gave up on, like, the business or, like. But it was going to do nobody any good, you know, anyone any good. And so I'm really. I'm really grateful for you two and just like, you know, I'm glad that we were able to be there for you. I'm glad that you guys, you know, leaned on each other and just kept pushing through because you were such a blessing to so many people that wouldn't have got that from you had you guys not pushed through that shitty situation, you know? And. And so the worst thing we could do is not talk about it.
- [60:37]
B
Right?
- [60:37]
A
I think that's the worst thing that we could do is not. Otherwise, it's like, what good was it? Like, you know, there's nothing good that comes from it. So I know you. You started to go and, like, you're gonna meet with like, a, you know, a dad or something like that. Or maybe something like that.
- [60:49]
B
Yeah.
- [60:50]
A
Starting to, like, open up and talk about a little bit more. Yeah.
- [60:52]
B
I mean, and. And me and Kelly, of course, are total opposites. Of course she doesn't want to talk.
- [60:57]
A
About it that we're even doing, you.
- [60:59]
B
See, Cringes that we're even talking about it. Where me, I'm just. I got to embrace it. If I. If my story, anything that I say can help anybody. I mean, it puts some light on a sour subject. But, yeah, I had. I had a friend reach out, and he wanted me to talk to one of his friends that had recently went through the same thing. So, I mean, I'm like, yeah, I mean, if I can help anybody, why wouldn't I? So, yeah, I spent. I spent probably a good hour with him, trying to just talk him.
- [61:32]
A
Oh, good. So you did do it.
- [61:33]
B
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, that was the first one. I think you're talking about another recent One. But yeah. And I talked it through with them and just like, hey, because everybody wants to know, like, well, when does it stop hurting? It doesn't. It never does.
- [61:48]
A
Yeah.
- [61:49]
B
It just gets more tolerable. Is it? Probably about the best I can say it does dulls a little bit, so. But then I'm like, okay, is this. Is this what God wants me to do? Does he want me to help people deal with this situation? So, yeah, and then I've had another one since then. They didn't end up reaching back out, but adoption was there for sure.
- [62:14]
A
Well, I mean, I'm glad that you're doing it because. Because it's such, like, this secretive thing and. And the best way for somebody to be comfortable opening up to it is to be able to relate.
- [62:27]
B
Right.
- [62:27]
A
Right. And. And the only way somebody can relate is if they know.
- [62:29]
B
Yeah.
- [62:30]
A
They know that you went through the same thing. So there's only one way to figure it out. Because if you keep it in secret and you just, like, are like, oh, I'm ashamed. Like, you gotta let. Like, you gotta let go at some point. But there's nothing you could have done differently that I think I can think of that would have changed.
- [62:48]
B
The problem is everybody wants to internalize that. Was it. Was it my fault? Was it her sister, father, some. Somebody at school, like, trying to find an answer? Trying to find an answer, and it's never going to work. It. What happened, happened. We can't change it. God hopefully has the plan, the better plan than we do. He. We just can't see it yet.
- [63:11]
A
And I think, you know, part of that is, like, what we're doing right now. And I think about it like, you know, because I do not believe in coincidences. It's convenient that I have a platform that speaks to tens of thousands of people.
- [63:25]
B
Right.
- [63:25]
A
You know, every single month.
- [63:27]
B
Yeah.
- [63:27]
A
And we can share your story. As one of my best friends.
- [63:30]
B
Yeah.
- [63:31]
A
You know, that we can share this. And I pray, I pray to God that from this particular episode that is able to. I mean, if it impacts one dude.
- [63:40]
B
One person, one person.
- [63:41]
A
That's all, then this was worth it, right? For sure. This was worth it. So I think that's like, a pretty good spot to. To maybe transition. Because it feels good, you know, like, to know, like, hey, if this has happened, you know, to you and you're in business, you're not alone. There's certainly light at the end of the tunnel. Might be a little dimmer than it used to be, but there's light in the tunnel. And there's certainly people to talk to, talk through it with you, who can relate to being in business and how you get through it and stuff like that. I'm going to finish with this with kind of the beginning in mind. And it is. I used to use this all the time as a sales. As like a sales tactic.
- [64:17]
B
Yeah.
- [64:18]
A
I'm not using it that way right now. I'm using it as like a motivation, an inspiration.
- [64:22]
B
Inspiration. Okay.
- [64:23]
A
Yeah. But if you could put, you know, one sentence and if you need to take a drink so you can think about it, that's totally fine. But if you could put. If you could put one sentence on a billboard in the middle of the desert where you grew up, you know, so nobody, middle of nowhere. But if somebody, you know, was to walk by and see it, what would it say?
- [64:49]
B
I think. I think it would say it doesn't matter what hand you're dealt, hard work will get you through anything. And not just hard work physical, but hard work mentally. Getting through hope, pushing, just grinding. Pushing through the hard times. Because it will get better. I guarantee it will always get better. There will be a better day. You just got to get through those rough days first.
- [65:14]
A
I love it. I mean, there's. There's a couple. You know, it's. Life is hard no matter what. So we talked about this. You can choose. Choose your hard. Yeah, it's hard to not get what you want. And it's hard to get what you want.
- [65:27]
B
Absolutely.
- [65:27]
A
It's just the past look a little bit different. One is easy, one's incredibly difficult, but it's hard. The end result is, you know, can be really good from the heart or it can be shitty.
- [65:37]
B
I mean, I mean, there's nothing we get that isn't hard work.
- [65:41]
A
Hard work.
- [65:41]
B
Yeah.
- [65:42]
A
Yeah. Everything is hard, man. Everything is hard.
- [65:44]
B
Everything's hard.
- [65:44]
A
God, these businesses are hard.
- [65:46]
B
Embrace the suck.
- [65:47]
A
Being a Cardinals fans hard.
- [65:49]
B
Absolutely. Embrace the suck.
- [65:52]
A
Dear God, I hope it's not hard this year. We could use a fucking.
- [65:55]
B
We need. We need a break. My God, we need a breakthrough.
- [65:58]
A
Jesus. Well, dude, listen, I. Thanks for doing this with me.
- [66:01]
B
Of course, man.
- [66:02]
A
You know, and. And like I said, it's, you know, it's. It was probably the hardest prep I've ever done. I went through so many variations of questions trying to think how to make this podcast meaningful. And I just kept coming back to this, you know, self belief, you know, and you're like this resilience, this, you know, mental fortitude, perseverance, like all the things that have to get you through life, business, all the things. But you know, you're in the like 1% of the 1%, right? Yes.
- [66:34]
B
Which is crazy. Crazy for little kid from Morristown, you know.
- [66:40]
A
And you did it. And honestly I could not be prouder to be your friend and to watch you like on that journey and to see what you guys have accomplished and we love you guys so much. Right. And, and my hope is that everybody listening to this podcast, you know, kind of walks away with some sort of feeling of like, man, like whether you believe or don't believe, you know, nothing is going to be harder than the. That Charles Sanders and Kelly Sanders.
- [67:05]
B
I mean, hey, listen, I imagine there are people that have a harder than me, but I, I think even them, even they can push through and they can make it through. They just gotta. You just gotta keep going.
- [67:15]
A
Well, let me throw this out there. And I wasn't going to do it originally, but I will, you know, if, you know, because usually I think the community is very small. If is there, is there, is it okay if I like share maybe just your like social media pages, like ask them to reach out to you through social media? For sure. Yeah. So if you would let me know if you're friends with me on social media, you can look at my friends list or you can type in Charles Sanders. There's probably a lot of Charles Sanders. If you go to my, you go to, you know, go to, you know, my page and look at my friends, you'll find them. I mean, shit, you just gotta look at some pictures.
- [67:45]
B
Yeah. Look at the last vacation picture and I'll probably be there.
- [67:49]
A
I think we're in Montana or some shit like that. But yeah, reach out to, you know, reach out to Charlie and, and, and you'll be happy to, to share with him. Absolutely. Okay, cool. What? Listen, glad we finally got this thing done. I'm glad we did it in my bar. Yes, I'm glad I did it over a glass of bourbon with you.
- [68:05]
B
Right.
- [68:06]
A
I think I, if I we would have went a couple more bourbons earlier, maybe we'd have went too deep. Like we went too far down rabbit holes.
- [68:13]
B
We've been known to do that time or two.
- [68:16]
A
This two hour long episode I had to break up into three parts cards. But it's exciting to watch a journey and it's even been cool for me because I've gotten to meet some of the quantum folks, you know, and like the great people and we go to the, you know, waste management open together and it's like we get to do life together. I'm grateful that we got to be here through all of it, you know, with you guys. Not the beginning part.
- [68:36]
B
Right.
- [68:36]
A
I wasn't through the super hillbilly part.
- [68:38]
B
Why weren't you?
- [68:39]
A
I was doing my own hillbilly. But it's cool to kind of get to you, live with you and to our listeners, you know, like I said, I hope. I hope to God that you have, you know, a friend like I have in Charlie Sanders, you know, in your lives, and that you have somebody you can lean on, you know, through thick and thin, and he'll be right or die. And if, like, shit goes south, I gotta bury somebody in the desert. I know I'm called Charlie Sanders.
- [69:00]
B
Trench crew, baby.
- [69:02]
A
He knows how to take some really good ditches. Listen, you don't gotta do everything, but you gotta do something. No. Zero days. Welcome to to the Point Home Services, the podcast where real contractors share real strategies. We cut through the noise and get straight to the point with the contractors that are working in the field right now. If you run a home services business and want to lead, better grow faster and stay sharp. You're in the right place. Now, before we get started, I need you to do one thing. Only 30% of our listeners are following the show. So stop what you're doing, hit follow, and let's get to the point.