← To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
How a Third-Generation Home Services Business Is Scaling to $35M
00:55:30
Loading summary
Transcript187 lines
- [00:02]
A
What's the password? Don't talk about it, be about it. Welcome in to the to the Point Home Services VIP room where we invite you the listeners in to hang alongside some of the biggest, baddest and most successful VIPs of the home Services industries. You never know which surprise guest will show up next. So let's get this party started.
- [00:32]
B
Hey, what's up Home Service VIPs it's your boy Chris along with my two homies, Chatty P and Ag, the Ron Collie ringer. It's been a while since I said it.
- [00:43]
C
Hello Beth.
- [00:46]
B
And the Silver Fox himself. I got both my boys on here. We're running a little bit late today. I wonder why. Aaron. Aaron, why are we running a little bit late today?
- [00:54]
A
Well, because Chad's all big time, you know, taking pictures on his race cars at his office and you know, doing all these things these days and we're kind of small potatoes to him. So I appreciate you making time for us, Chad.
- [01:07]
B
Yeah, thanks. I really appreciate you. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Chad Peterman Show. Aaron and I are going to be on here as his co host today.
- [01:17]
C
You guys are lovely, lovely, lovely.
- [01:22]
B
Well listen, it's always fun to bust your chops so we have a good guest here on, on today. The actually first time I've met our guests. Both of all actually all of us first time at our guest and actually ironically you know having been in the trades for so long, knowing so many people I'd never even heard of this business and maybe it's because it's in Ms. Sip and ain't nobody going down to Ms. Sip too much, you know for, for. Unless you're going to Jackson. I was gonna work that bit in here too but I didn't have time to do it. But Ben Nalty we got the Benalty which is a gm, the general manager multi, let's see multif family, multi generational guy in the business. We'll talk a little bit about, about that. Who's general general manager for Environment Masters? You do all three trades. H H Vac plumbing, electrical. Dad, your dad Ray, president of the company. Does he want to actually start. Did he start the business, Ben?
- [02:20]
D
No, my grandfather did.
- [02:22]
B
So you got multi generational and that and the business started back when, when did your, when did your grandpa start it?
- [02:27]
D
So founded under a different name in 53, became environment masters in 57.
- [02:33]
B
Got it. 57 right when Aaron was born. Yeah,
- [02:41]
A
you're not the only one
- [02:44]
B
but you know guys had a nice little business. I've been asking the last few guests, you know, just kind of what their last few years have looked like from a revenue perspective. And you got. You. And I got to chat a little bit about it on Tech spin. And in 2024, you guys run 25 million?
- [02:56]
A
20.
- [02:56]
B
In 2024. We run about 25 million. In 2025, nice little bump up to 32 million, which I believe was a acquisition that helped kind of make that change.
- [03:04]
D
Yeah.
- [03:05]
B
And then pacing, you know, 35, I believe you said, this year. So not a bad little business you're on here down in Mississippi. And I just wonder what, you know, we'll kind of pick apart some of the. That, you know, 25 to 32 jump. And then the kind of. The more flatter, you know, the year to. From 32. 35, obviously very respectable. I just want to talk through some of those things because it seems like it's a pretty good conversation with the new construction piece and the acquisition that you had to carve out, I think you were. You were doing. So we'll get into some of. Some of that. But before we do, I have. I do want to bring up an idiom today, boys. You've all heard this one. Chad does this frequently, especially while we're recording. He likes to kill two birds with one stone. Kind of shaking his head.
- [03:54]
D
Yes.
- [03:55]
B
You guys have of course heard this term kill two birds with one stone, right? Of course. Now, what I like to always know is what's the origination of this. We know the meaning of it is that you're trying to accomplish two things. If I can kill. Accomplish two things at once. You. It's a time saver. It's a whatever saver.
- [04:10]
C
But.
- [04:11]
B
But where did it originate from? Any of you guys have an idea how you actually, like, look like kill two birds with one stone? You realize how complicated that has to be? Yeah.
- [04:25]
A
Hard to kill one with the stone, isn't it? I mean, birds are pretty quick.
- [04:29]
D
Like a primitive type trap.
- [04:31]
C
Birds are pretty quick.
- [04:34]
A
Yeah.
- [04:39]
C
I'm just picturing Aaron outside the shop later this afternoon at the end of the day, like chucking rocks at birds.
- [04:45]
B
He's got a sling in his stomach.
- [04:47]
A
My mixer in my mixer in his attire.
- [04:52]
B
Well, so this actually, guys, this will. You know, this is actually the oldest idiom on record. The oldest one.
- [05:02]
A
Oh, wow.
- [05:02]
B
This. This one dates back to ancient Greece, which is now going to start to make more sense. It. The earliest versions appears in the. In writings in 342 BC b. C. And it was. Yeah, you know, you had the sling and a stone. And it was, you know, you would try to hit, you know, if it bird is a couple of birds are perched over sitting somewhere. Could you hit both of them at the same time with the sling and a stone? Kill two birds, one stone. That would be exceptional. So that's where it dates back to all the way back to B.C. time. Playing in a stone. So Aaron, I'd love to see you try just hit one bird with the sling and the stone. I'd actually just like to see you throw the stone with the sling.
- [05:49]
D
I'd like to know if Nolan was able to capture that in the Odyssey. Haven't gotten to see it yet.
- [05:57]
B
Anyhow. Okay, so the closest thing we can relate to is a sling shot, which is the cheater version of the actual sling itself. So anyhow, there's the origination of kill two birds with one stone, the oldest idiom in the book so far. So also, real quick, before we jump into this, I just want to give a quick shout out to our sponsors. Yelp you. Hope you guys enjoyed the elf episode and the video I posted after when I said hey, you did not give a sufficient answer on the review conspiracy. So I got Jed's answer and I recorded it and I posted it last week on social media, the in depth version of it to put the conspiracy theory to bed. Also shout out to our sponsors, Loca AI Avoca. Love those guys. Sales ask and you know to our partners at send to email marketing. One of my favorites. All right, guys, let's get into it. Are you ready? Are you ready to give Ben the business? And by the way, Ben, you got a couple of big boys in here too. So now's the perfect time for you to ask questions along the way. I'm sure you got them. You know, these guys have accomplished a couple things. You could tell by the gray hair on Aaron that he's been a plumber who's built a big business. A year ago, wasn't quite that great. A little grayer today, though. Chad puts a hat on. He's still got all of his hair color, but he also dyes his beard, so. Okay, but maybe let's just do this, man. Okay. Chad doesn't really dye his beard. I'm just kidding.
- [07:24]
D
I didn't think you were great, man.
- [07:26]
C
I appreciate it. I gotta get a haircut later this afternoon, so I gotta get that on.
- [07:30]
D
Comes from a place of jealousy.
- [07:34]
B
My gray hair is legit. Okay, so you jumped in the business. You said your, your grandpa started the company, but you jumped in the business at what, 14, I think, kind of doing the grunt that we all have to do when we're kids. But 14, you came in, you're doing stuff like mowing the lawn, you had some, like you're doing some duct work and things like that. You know, today, you know, you're the general manager of the business. So are you actually running the day to day operations of the company today?
- [07:58]
D
Yeah.
- [07:59]
B
Okay, and so what is your dad's role? You said he's still coming in. So like what's your dad's role today? Is he just like what's he doing?
- [08:06]
D
How would I define his role? So at 68 years old, my dad likes to work on the things he likes to work on, which I would say is a lot of long term vision planning and marketing and then just depending on the day, he'll get as in the weeds as he wants to. My dad is pretty awesome to work with. I know there's probably a lot of father son relationships that wouldn't say that. My dad is, you know, for someone that's been doing this his entire career and at his age, he's incredibly open minded. He loves to try new things. He doesn't chase shiny objects, which maybe sometimes those two things can correlate. But he's just, he's a. I don't know, he's it. Everybody would invite him to get as involved as he wants to get. But he's here every day. He's really naturally curious, super kind person, great to work with.
- [09:13]
B
Curiosity is good. Well, now would you consider yourself more of a sales guy, Ops guy, marketing guy, like kind of where you lean towards.
- [09:20]
D
Probably more of an ops guy today in terms of what I do in and out, you know, I gotta wear every hat. Just depending on the day, but more in terms of operations on a day in, day out.
- [09:42]
B
Got it. Okay, so now how long have you been the GM there?
- [09:48]
D
I'd say going on about there was like a good six month, I'm not sure period. But probably about two, two plus years.
- [09:59]
B
Okay, well you picked an interesting two years becoming a gm, so. But you're kind of coming out of. Coming out of the COVID stuff too and, and settling. So.
- [10:08]
A
So what were you doing before you were the gm?
- [10:11]
D
So I was our H VAC service manager.
- [10:15]
A
Okay.
- [10:15]
D
Beforehand ran the service department and it was. That's kind of a. Interesting transition. I was in sales work for myself. Really didn't know everyone in the company or really how it operated going back to the summer of 2018. And we had a service manager who wanted to get out was burnout, which can happen in that chair for sure. And my dad was talking to John Conway and June 2018, and John Said, well, you know what you got to do, right? And he was like, no. And he was like, you should just tell Ben to do it in the middle of the summer with zero experience. And John was right. He was like, he'll sink or swim and you'll figure out where he can fit in the business, but you should just tell them to do it. So me and dad went and grabbed a steak and he was like, hey, you want to move from sales to running the service department? And I was like, no, that sounds like a terrible idea. And change. And then when I left and I thought about it, it was like, man, I really want to run this business fundamentally. Like, that's going to be probably the best place to get in to learn everything, especially on the seasonality side. And I just really embraced it. And shockingly enough, it's actually one of my favorite jobs I've ever had. I. I learned to love it and just was real honest with all the guys and told them, I'm not your technical specialist. You guys are better text than me. I won't act like I am, but I got your back and probably have more weight to have your back than you've had in the past. So let's work together and let's do this thing. And we rocked through Covid together and have made awesome group. Really growing that department and a good tribe off hour that John gave me, which is kind of his style. Very grateful for it.
- [12:26]
C
That's a really good John impression. Like spoton, because I had that. I had many of those talks with him. Well, yep, you're just going to do it. That's what you're going to do. And when we come around next week, it better be done.
- [12:41]
A
Okay.
- [12:41]
C
Yes, sir.
- [12:43]
D
I can't. I mean, I talk for an hour about John. I love him to death. Probably know one person maybe outside my dad or rival to my dad that's kind of just helped shape how I see everything and, you know, pushes. It's fair and it'll be hard on you, but like, at the end of the day, he's a great dude. Just really knows how to set you up for success. So grateful for John. Yeah.
- [13:15]
B
Did you connect with John when he was at Nextar or like, what are
- [13:18]
D
you okay, so John was our business coach and, you know, really, really did a lot of really great things for our business. We came after 2008 we were, I mean, we were almost all commercial construction. That's where my dad cut his teeth. So we totally changed lanes. And by the time we had got to the next door, I mean, every concept was new, everything was shocking. And John did a really good job at moving us along through that transition. And not just telling, but teaching too. I know he can tell you, but he also understood that the way my dad had seen business was just so different. So a lot of teaching needed to take place. And he was really good to us.
- [14:13]
A
I think that's interesting. There's a lot of similarities probably between you and Chad in this one more than me, but. Well, besides, you know, doing commercial work and losing everything, because that's not a great plan. But I think that same thing, right, Chad, your, your, your dad did mostly construction, like multifamily stuff too, right? And then ramped over. So what made your to just in the story I just wanted to ask is like what made that transition happen? Was it the economy? Was it just rethinking? Was it like, we got to do something, we're getting hammered here. Like, what, what made your dad make this move? And then you obviously embracing this and everybody embracing it. Now look where you guys are today.
- [14:47]
D
There wasn't a job to do in Mississippi from 2008 to 2010. It was a really, really tough time. And we had a, you know, residential services arm and we operate in that capacity. Kind of all departments were sort of blended. But, you know, work dried up. And one thing I would say, like, you know, you have wartime leaders and peacetime leaders. My dad's a hell of a wartime leader. Like he runs the challenges, really good at putting his head down and grinding things out and he doesn't give up. So it was a natural adaptation, so to say. Like, I'm going to figure this out. He loves this place. He puts his all into it. Always has and just crying it out, figure it out. It's also like I said, he's super open, like, loves to go learn. Went to a Honeywell deal, I believe, and he thought it was all going to be about like controls technology and all that stuff. But it was all about websites and marketing in the digital age or whatever and he just ran at it.
- [16:02]
C
Looks like you guys do kind of the multi trade stuff, but it sounds like your dad was kind of like background was like H vac. What. Tell us a little bit about kind of adding those trades when you added them. I feel like it's always a big topic on here on kind of how I did it. What was, what was going on? What were some of the challenges? Like tell us a little bit about kind of adding those trades, I guess over time.
- [16:25]
D
So plumbing was out of the construction world, added plumbing so we could bid jobs for both. And then the electrical side was, is much more recent, two years. And I don't know, my opinion could be due to my market, but I feel like the level of sophistication that can happen in electrical has, I don't know, hasn't been as big of a focus as the other two trades for a lot of people. And it's an awesome business and electricians are super talented people. So I've really enjoyed getting to do it and learning about it. We have some really fantastic electricians. We kind of started on our own and then ended up acquiring a really long standing business in town and kind of ramped it up. But and as I said, that one's a more recent. So always, you know, kind of the vision for the past five years has become a whole home service provider. Just been kind of navigating it. And right now I feel like we got a pretty strong electrical arm that we've gotten off the ground
- [17:41]
A
though. So just like maybe for us, me and our listeners too, like, so how much of your business is residential and how much is commercial today? Like percentage wise? Can you give us an idea?
- [17:53]
D
That's math. Well, you have to do that. 85, 15 or 90, 10. I'm not, I would have to just.
- [18:05]
A
I get it. Like, so you're saying like, is that mostly residential? 85, 90 residential. Okay. Yeah. All right. Kind of get an idea.
- [18:13]
D
So mostly on commercial, like we still have 500 commercial maintenance accounts. It's all service replacement maintenance.
- [18:21]
A
Okay. Mostly all PMS and all that stuff.
- [18:25]
D
Yeah, no bid work anymore.
- [18:28]
B
You're spending thousands to make the phone ring. But if your CSRs aren't picking up or converting, you might as well light it on fire. And what are the largest businesses in the country doing about this? They use Avoca, the leading AI platform in the trades. Hundred million dollar businesses like H.L. bowman are operating with only nine CSRs because Avoca handles up to 80 of the calls. Plus Avoca follows up with your leads, grades your CSR calls and helps you strategize. So my suggestion, go with the leading company. Check out Avoca AI. That's a B, O, C, A. I click the link below. One of the biggest mistakes operators make is assuming they know what's happening in the sales process. The reality is most managers don't have time to listen to every single call, sit in every ride along or review every sales conversation. Sales Ask solves that problem. Chad and I use Sales Ask at our roofing company and seen great results. Their AI helps you review real conversations, identify coaching opportunities, spot the missed steps and understand exactly where your team is winning and losing deals. If you're investing heavily in lead gen but don't have visibility into your sales process, you're flying blind. What are you doing? Book a free sales visibility session with Sales Ask and mention to the point Home Services VIP room to get your free exclusive listener offer. And then.
- [19:56]
A
You've been the GM for two years. So where were you guys at two years ago? I know Chris was running through some numbers but when you took over as a gm, what was. What was kind of your top line? Where were you guys the year you started?
- [20:07]
D
So I guess that would be like the 20 that was kind of like a little in between time which like we were probably getting to that. We were growing from that 20 to 25.
- [20:24]
A
Okay.
- [20:26]
D
When I kind of started getting and because it was kind of like a. Had to figure it out because we had. I had to replace myself as the service manager. Got two great guys doing that and we totally split commercial and residential and got a commercial service manager. So kind of turned that role into three positions and then was doing sales management till about a year ago and appointed a sales manager. So really put down other hats and got into a more GM role capacity.
- [21:08]
A
Were those all your hiring? Did your data say you're now the gm? Go hire these people. Figure it out.
- [21:14]
D
Yeah, for the most part.
- [21:15]
A
Like John, like they did last time?
- [21:18]
D
Yeah, for the most part. Okay. Yeah. No, all of them.
- [21:23]
B
Hey have you and your dad. But it had on any decision making so far?
- [21:28]
D
You know, I don't. That's not the way we really go about it. We'll disagree but it's more like we're, we are presenting our case.
- [21:38]
A
We don't.
- [21:39]
D
Every now and then we can get into a little spat but we generally agree with each other on most things. I mean normally like he's a, he's a financial wizard. I got 100 years to learn what he's forgotten. So you know his is always going to be numbers based and I don't know if you guys are familiar with like color code and all that stuff. And I'm, I'm a yellow eye. So like I am driven by fun. Like that's what makes me go. So we kind of. And he's, he's kind of the blue red sort of guy. So we. We work really. It's friendly fire, I believe is what they call it. But we. We were good together. We don't. We don't getting spats. But he's always got a number to back himself up.
- [22:29]
B
I'm a yellow red.
- [22:31]
D
Nice.
- [22:31]
B
Actually a yellow purist red. So I really like to have fun and then get some done in the meantime. Yeah, I love the color code.
- [22:41]
A
Color code's good.
- [22:42]
C
That's good.
- [22:43]
B
So are you guys. You guys are private or you're still. Or no, you're part of. You have a private equity partner. Who's your partner?
- [22:52]
D
Redwood.
- [22:53]
A
Oh, John and Richard. Okay. Okay, well, that all makes sense now, right? That's why he's talking him up here. I get it now.
- [23:07]
D
It's an interesting story how that all came about.
- [23:09]
A
That comes out later. Now we get it. No, Johnson, John's an amazing guy.
- [23:14]
B
John, you son of a. We know you put him up next. No, we love it.
- [23:21]
A
Those guys over there do run a great thing. I mean, we had them on here, what, I don't know, a couple of. Maybe more than a couple episodes ago. But just. Yeah, they do. They do a great job.
- [23:30]
B
We just happen to have though, another. Another one of your. I guess another homie from hell.
- [23:35]
D
Me.
- [23:36]
B
Yeah, got him on.
- [23:37]
D
I. I know I'm boring compared to Helmy. That guy. That guy's a monster. I Love him.
- [23:44]
B
Yeah. 2156 gross margin. 21 is an animal.
- [23:50]
D
He says he's gonna do it. He's gonna get it done. The Redwood thing has been good though. They've been really great to us. They.
- [24:00]
B
When did you join, did you join that. That group?
- [24:03]
D
2022.
- [24:05]
B
Oh, wow. Okay. So you've been there for a minute.
- [24:07]
D
Yeah, we. I think we were the seventh partner on and it was kind of like, you know, dad is approaching retirement age. We had nothing for succession figured out. And at that point in time, I feel like our phones rang every day with someone trying to buy us. And honestly, every time you had that conversation, it felt like you needed to go take a shower. Felt slimy. And you know, I wanted like, as hard as my dad has worked, I wanted him to figure it out for himself. And like, whatever happens to me, happens to me. I'm going to have to make my own way in life. And I believe that. And I didn't like, ultimately I wanted my. My dad to get the benefit of all his hard work. And it was just, man, just zero interest in selling any piece of the business and any Conversations that we had had. And interestingly enough, you know, we had just talked to these guys who were local because I knew one of them. And we were just in the parking lot, like, real hard now. Just run from that. And I'm driving out of town, and my dad called me and goes, I just got a really interesting phone call from John Conway. And it had been a while since we had talked because he had left next. I didn't even know what he was doing. And I was like, yeah. He was like, I think we should talk to him. And I think it was kind of just a really good match. Really liked what they were saying. I knew it would be super beneficial for my dad. They had, you know, interest in me and wanted me to find a way to buy in, to make a deal happen. Which obviously, like, you know, feeds the ego, but it's, like, great. You guys actually consider me a piece of this. You're not just looking to take my family business and figure it out for yourself. So we, you know, they were patient enough for me to figure all that out, which was scary and fun at the same time. And really just the whole team at the time, like, I really appreciate, like, you know, Richard's got a real good vision and communicates it really well. Sean, who's the CFO there, Me and him become great friends. We're about the same age. Like, just high level of trust in that guy. And then just already knew how good of a guy John was. And we're four years into this deal now, and, you know, you wait for the rug pull, but it's. Man, everything that they've said, all the independence, they said they were going to give us the benefits that they said they wanted to add. Like, it's just. It's kind of happened.
- [27:00]
B
It's.
- [27:01]
D
It's been a really good partnership.
- [27:03]
B
I think we're gonna have to start charging Redwood.
- [27:08]
A
I was about to ask you a question. If you had, like, a private deal on the side with them, Chris, what do you think? I mean, yeah, no joke.
- [27:15]
C
Can I at least get a shirt or a hat or something? I mean, shoot, we haven't got any swag for this show, but, you know, hey, I will.
- [27:23]
D
I'll make sure some swag. See what you have to do with redwood, you gotta go to the right person.
- [27:29]
C
Yeah, okay.
- [27:30]
D
Diane that works at Redwood, Nobody knows this. She runs that show. She is the bomb. You. You want. You want some swag? I'll tell Diane she needs to hook y' all
- [27:42]
A
now that we're official sponsor. Yeah, yeah.
- [27:48]
B
I'm gonna have to, like, clip all these episodes and take it to him, like, okay, you guys owe us something here,
- [27:55]
C
you know, at least $30,000.
- [27:59]
A
At least. Get me a gift card to Jeff. Rubies.
- [28:01]
B
Yeah, can you get me a Sizzler gift card? A Sizzler, please.
- [28:09]
A
Yeah. That's a great story here because I think a lot of people don't know who to partner with sometimes and challenging. And, you know, obviously, I love to hear how much you just appreciate and respect your dad and the work he did. I mean, that's, you know, that's. That's obviously showing up here. And the work he did, you really respect that and did that. And then that process, making sure that, you know, when somebody is going through this process, there's a lot of family businesses that have grown and done these things right? And they're making sure, you know, between the family and the transition and how are you involved, like, those are. Those are all hard things and decisions to make. Right. For the future. I know Chad's seen a lot of that. You've seen some of that. Those are not easy, like, things to deal, you know, I haven't had to deal with that. I just tell my son what he's doing now. So. But other than that, I don't have to deal with any of this other stuff. So it's always interesting because I think there's sometimes I. Because I didn't come up in that area, but I realized that there is a lot of that, a lot more probably than sometimes we even realize in this industry, at least for me, that there's all this, like, family owned and switched and operated and taking over and then leaving the legacy and then now private equity coming in, like, all this stuff going on. So even navigating that I would assume with your team had to been a. Probably somewhat of an interesting conversation too, is because this is like, it's a legacy family business, right? And now you're being acquired by, you know, in everybody's mind, a private equity company. Right. Not that I think all private equity is bad, by the way. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't lean into that by any means. But I also understand that there's a lot of beliefs on that right out there, especially texts and other stuff. So maybe tell us a little bit about how you. How did you guys navigate that conversation?
- [29:43]
D
So, you know, the. What was promised to us and what was delivered is like, you know, John knew us really well, knew how we operated. He was like, I You know, we want to run the processes that you've already trained and learned. We want to give you the ability to negotiate with vendors better and take advantage of that. But, you know, we just. We want to pour jet fuel on the environment masters brand, and we want to watch them grow. And that's what we want to do. And we want to give you the ability to connect with the best operators in the industry, which has been probably the most valuable piece for me. You know, got. Got to learn so much from so many great people that I get to work with in a short period of time. You know, a lifetime's worth of learning. I feel like in a short period. So what we did is we essentially. Brock. We actually had a big catfish fry, and everybody.
- [30:56]
A
Mississippi Very.
- [30:58]
D
Yeah.
- [31:00]
A
You know, I've never been involved with one of those, so maybe one day somebody can invite me. I don't even know what that is,
- [31:06]
B
but Aaron has a mixer. Not a catfish fry.
- [31:09]
C
Yeah, a mixer.
- [31:11]
D
Well, I think you'd have to end up drinking it more straight at one of our parties, but you still have. Still have a good time. So our catfish bra basically let everybody know, like, this is what's happening, you know, and we have an expression me and dad use. Mississippi's three or four years behind the rest of the world. And that's, you know, I think we coined that off Mark Twain saying, to understand the world, you got to understand Mississippi. So we're just a little bit behind. And it definitely worried some people. There were some rumors that, you know, I was leaving in two years and we were shutting down plumbing. And it was just a ton of that and kind of went like, with the man in the arena mentality, like, we're going to power through this. Actions are going to show, like, it's going to be okay. We're not changing our identity or core values and who we are. And, you know, now there's really no drama associated with it, but there was just a little patch. But ultimately, I think everybody also understood, too. You know, my dad was approaching retirement age. I got two brothers that don't work in the business. And, you know, his communication point was just honest. I got to figure out the next steps. I got to leave this place in a good way to run, you know, when I'm gone. And, you know, this is ultimately, I saw bringing in a really good partner, a really good teammate that would help me help Ben run the business. And, man, that's. That's what it's been. So that's. That's kind of how we ran through it. Yeah, it was a little bit of drama at first. Mississippi's also a small town too. So like the other thing was that, you know, the customer side of it, like, you know, a lot of our customers didn't think me or Raymond worked here anymore. And like it got to the point where I just had to like, however I could just get out there and be like, still work here every day. Dad still works here every day. It's not like that. So just kind of houring through this tough spots, but not listening to the noise.
- [33:22]
B
Listen up, VIPs I hope you're enjoying the episode so far. Listen, I wanted Yelp to give us something, so I said give me something I can share specifically with the listeners. And here's what they wrote verbatim. New multi location advertisers on Yelp may qualify for a 20 bonus advertising budget when they start campaigns before September 30, meaning Yelp puts extra ad dollars on top of whatever you spend. That's free money. So fill out the form@business.yelp.com forward/home service VIP or just go to the show notes and click on the link and the Yelp team will reach out to you to help get you started asap.
- [34:01]
C
That's one my guess that's transit kind of to stay on this kind of same vein of like how much Redwood's helped you. Obviously you knew John Pryor, so there were probably things that, you know, he suggested or helped you implement or anything like that. I guess if you look back over the last call it 12, 18 months. What's one of the things that you can point to where like not that they forced you to do it, but like, hey, they looked at the business from a different perspective or the perspective of kind of being our coach. And we made this modification that has, you know, really benefited the business that we just didn't. Didn't do really well or just weren't focused on that, you know, over the last kind of year, year and a half has made a, made an impact in the business.
- [34:45]
D
So anything that Scott Brinkley tells me or works with me on is just gold.
- [34:55]
A
Like.
- [34:56]
D
But the problem is he's 500 times smarter than me. So I have to like, I gotta get him to really dumb it down until I can get it. So one of the things that I think has had a really profound impact for us in the past several months, really starting in March, was get showing me a way to, when you start with that daily huddle at 10am, how to make that conversation go to 4. How we're gonna count down what we committed to throughout the day. What are those accountability conversations and how do you direct them? Where do they go? Are you in a dispatch office? Are you in a manager's office? Like, where are you seeing? Are we in the CSR office? Are we. Are we adding calls instead of having a daily huddle where you say, this is what I think we're going to do. Good luck. So that was something that I think was really beneficial that he did directly for me to help me understand some other things that I think. And this is something like they said, you know, talking to you guys. Like, we did H Vac for a long time. My grandfather, I would say, was kind of a pioneer in maintenance. Like, he started maintenance programs in the late 70s, probably before a lot of people were thinking about that and how to get electricians and plumbers to think about that maintenance, that membership, how it benefits all three trades, and how to encompass all three trades where if you're a member, you get the benefit of all three trades. Just being H Vac for so long, I don't feel like we thought about it like that. And those are two things that, you know, Scott helped me with personally. But then Redwood had several of their coaches help our business to really become much more valuable to our customers in terms of what does a membership mean with environment masters and how does it help you not only in H Vac, but plumbing and electrical. So some big changes underway that I think have been great for this year.
- [37:25]
B
You brought up two important people on here, by the way, because Brinkley was Gaynor's coach and Conway is Peterman's coach.
- [37:33]
C
Yeah,
- [37:36]
A
Scott. Scott's a great sales guy. Just. I mean, he's great at a lot of things. An operator too, but great at just, hey, this how you do sales, how you do the process? These are things very process driven. So again, I think that's what you're talking about. Like, I think one of the things, like depending on, you know, going independent, you got to join a network, you got to get social, you know, you got to learn stuff. I think that's how your dad, your dad did it. That's how I did it. That's how Chad did it. Right. We joined the nextar network. Right. To learn and share and do stuff. And I think one of the things that you do benefit from some of some of these platforms and areas is that you do have that network now and you have that resources and, you know, if you want to go that direction, you know, take Some chips off, get investment in, be part of a bigger group of the energy and effort that you can share. So I think there's a lot of benefits with the right groups that share these knowledges and help coach you to get your teams better. And I think that's what I'm hearing from you is like, you know, that there is. There is upside in these things. I know there'll be people against it and people for it always in every walk of life. But there is upside when you get with the right group that can really help you accelerate. And it sounds like your growth has been pretty strong, too, in the last two years from your own energy, your team. What I hear from you, as you guys went from 25 two years ago, about 20, 25, you're on pace for 35 million two years later. Right. And what are you contributing that to?
- [38:55]
D
You know, adding. Adding an electrical trade is good for revenue, but you picked up $10 million in electrical.
- [39:06]
A
I need to come talk.
- [39:06]
D
No, no, no. I'm going to expand on it. I'm g. Expand on it. But also it became to a. The. I'm going blank on his name. But the service MVP gases. Don't bring your grandmother in the truck.
- [39:21]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every.
- [39:23]
D
Every option, every time. Like, let it be your customer's decision from the most simple. You know, this will be the band aid to move you forward to if, you know, you want to upgrade and renovate your system, your water heater, your water filtration system, you know, whatever it may be. And truly giving a customer every option. And I think working with those guys has really helped my guys. Working with the redwood team has really changed a lot of mentalities, you know.
- [40:01]
A
So you're saying that has been an average sale change?
- [40:03]
D
Yeah, average sale. A conversion rate change. And it's kind of come in different phases in departments, like seeing a uptick in average sale for replacement sales, seeing conversion rates go up significantly on maintenance checks, continuing to add memberships at a pretty positive clip. Just a lot of positives. And then from, you know, me and Raymond's perspective of really making sure that we're priced right and what's fair to our employees and staying in front of those things. So, I mean, just a lot like, I mean, a whole bunch of things that I would say contribute to that.
- [40:53]
B
Well, guys, we're getting close. We're getting close. But I want to ask this question to you, Ben. Like, you have. You have two behemoths on here, right? And yeah, you've got great. You've Got great coaching. But is there anything that, you know, you have, like, has come up or you thought about that maybe you want to ask, you know, these guys for their opinion on. I mean, obviously again, they're, you know, a pretty big chunk ahead of you, but, you know, not so far away that they might not be able to help. But do you have any, any questions for either one of the boys?
- [41:23]
D
I think sitting in my chair, two of the most difficult things that I run across is how to encourage, you know, cross trade leads, membership sales, things like that get guys to see the whole house and then how to be, I guess, more innovative in terms of like messaging and you know, marking your business or your brand or what you're trying to promote.
- [42:00]
C
I can take the first part there. Aaron's got the, he could take the marketing side. I know he's queued into that quite a bit. Not telling you what you need to answer, Aaron. Sorry, sorry, sorry. But yeah, I mean, on the cross trade stuff, we've seen a lot of success. We, we created a program where, you know, there's an incentive structure around it. I think what we were running into is we would talk about it like, hey, plumber, tell them about electrical and H Vac and all of this stuff. And I think that they would if they were asked about it.
- [42:40]
A
Right.
- [42:41]
C
It wasn't like a, hey, I'm trying to do this. And where we first noticed this working was in our smaller branches where like a lot of the plumbers know the H Vac guys and you know, they're buddies and there's only a couple of them, so they're all friends. Whereas, you know, you get to Indianapolis and our big location, it's like most our plumbers don't know our H Vac guys. They're in separate meetings on separate days, they go run their own things. They're not sure who each other are. So there's no real incentive to like help, help a brother out, you know, because like, I don't know who that is. And you know, in Indy there's always plenty of calls for everybody, but in a smaller market there's, there's fewer calls, they're harder to come by, they're more expensive, all of this stuff. And so when it came to generating leads for everybody, we noticed we're like, shoot, they're generating a lot of stuff. Maybe we ought to put a formalized program around this. So that's what we did. We put a formalized program around it. We built them a, basically like a, like an app. It was Essentially our online scheduler that they could see where they got incentivized. I believe it's $25 per appointment that they book outside of their trade. So we're able to track it on the back end, but they have to book it while they're in the home. So if, you know, if they ask about an electrical issue, they want a ceiling fan hung, well then yeah, I can book that for you right now. And I get 25 bucks if we run this call. So they would book, you know, book the appointment right there. They get their 25 and then they can make incremental dollars based on how much that job sells for. And it's not like they're, you know, you know, they're obviously making more money in their day job. But this is a great way. I've got a guy in the first six months of this year, I think I've paid him, he's the top guy. I think I paid him almost $4,000 in leads that he's referred. But our program now we have a lot of texts out there, but you know, just put it in kind of comparisons. We generated 900 cross trade appointments in the first six months of this year, which resulted in a million dollars of revenue. We were closing those leads at about 50%, which is pretty good. I feel like you're going to get the ones that, hey, I'd just like to have somebody out here and get a price. But you know, still good ST stuff and we're still providing value to that customer. Right? If I can get two technicians in their home as opposed to one, well that's two opportunities to build value and build trust and like, oh yeah, cool. Like maybe I don't need it now, but at least I know who to call. So that would be my recommendation, is track it and incentivize it. And we have a scoreboard so like they can see on their dashboard they can see like who's the top, who's the top cross trade referral guy? How much money has he made, how many has he set, so on and so forth so guys can start to see the real dollars behind that, which has been super impactful. I mean, you know, leads aren't getting any cheaper. If we can generate more leads. And then I'll tell you. Another guy to talk to in the Redwood circle is Helmi who we had on last, last week, he was talking about the concept of how do I book two appointments for every call I get. So like if you call, how do I set cross trade referrals on the phone in the contact center room, which I thought is a great idea. We've talked about it. But again, I don't think I've ever formalized anything, which is what we're working on now. How do I formalize this program to where my CSR is incentivized to, you know, not only set the H vac appointment, but do you have any slow drains in the house? You got any electrical needs? Well, we can get an electrician out there as well, or we can get a plumber out there, whatever it may be. So I think that's a great idea, too. Haven't fleshed that one out yet, but it sounds like he has. I'd check with him because it sounded like he was kind of dialed in on that piece of things.
- [46:26]
A
Yeah. And I think, you know, marketing is hard. I looked at your guys's site. Obviously, I don't know enough about your brand messaging to have a lot of thought on what you could do or couldn't do. And obviously I have a name that's been around for a long, long time, and people know it in the marketplace. Unique kind of name to what you do. But it obviously has worked. You guys have grown. But I think at the end of the day, marketing is really just comes down to is, what do you stand for? What do you stand against? And are you willing to say it out loud? Right. So are you willing to actually just get on a radio ad? Are you willing to get on a TV ad and say what you stand for and what you stand against, even if it's, you know, disrupts your competition in the marketplace, Even if it's makes people feel uncomfortable that you are in the trades with that. Sometimes you got to do that. So I think it's important to kind of understand that. So that's the only way you stand out. And you have to be willing to, you know, sometimes say things that most people wouldn't say on a radio ad and be okay saying it? And so. And, you know, that's. That's. That's. That's what I would say. If you're looking. How do you stand out in marketing? How do you create and disrupt something? You got to be okay with being a little confrontational. That might be in my personality a little bit. So I'm okay with that somewhat. I see. Look at these two. But I mean, this is like. So, I don't know. Maybe I don't. You guys probably do have what you stand for and stand against, and you culturally build that in and then just understanding your Brand message. Like there's a. You guys obviously have a brand story. I don't know enough about it, but for everybody, a brand story. There's a difference between generating leads and having a story that people can relate to and community. Obviously you have a story regardless of you. You know, you're, you're, you're partially owned by private equity. There's still a brand family story that you guys have leaned into or you remake a new one that relates to where you guys are going now with the culture, the people, and start to be able to, to, to be able to articulate that. So I think you want 60% of your advertising to be relational and 40% of it to be basically offer driven. Right. And you want to keep building that relational memory with people over time. So I know it's like super high level, but I hopefully, you know, just getting people to think about the difference of that. When you're early on, you're very focused on, just get me a lead, get me a lead. I think we can all relate to that, right? Very early on, it's just like, how do I get, do I just call. Probably people call, Chris, Chris, give me a lead, right?
- [48:40]
D
I need a lead.
- [48:41]
A
I need a lead, right? It's like, okay, I can only give you so many leads if nobody knows who you are because you haven't built any brand yet. You haven't built any brand equity, and you have brand equity. So it's like, how do you guys really lean in that brand equity more and build more trust around it if, if you need to, I don't know, your market cap, your market share. Right. You might not need to. But I think it's important for everybody to kind of understand sometimes we get over the deal focused and less relational and that when you flip that too much, consumers kind of can understand that everything you want is a deal. I grew most of my plumbing business on deal offers, but there was a threshold where it can't just all be deals. People need to start to understand what is the relationship I build with you as a brand and as me. Aaron, right? Or Chad, how Chad does his advertising.
- [49:25]
D
Like you guys do. Do this podcast now and I guess kind of tying into what my question is, like innovative forms of messaging. Like, yeah, we, because like myself personally, like from midnight till 7am My inbox gets 400 promotional emails from some people I've never even heard of. And it's like, I feel like there's, there's got to be better ways of messaging for promoting the deals, innovative ways to do that. I guess that's kind of what I was like, where the basis of my question, what does that make sense?
- [50:04]
C
Yeah, I think I. I think I understand a little bit here. Like, you're. Are you saying, like, hey, we want to send a piece of messaging out, say it's an email. Chris can help with this, but you know, if it's an email. So I always look at it as like, how do we. Like, the easiest one we always think about nature is like, well, we can book maintenance appointments. Well, okay, cool. But we know a maintenance appointment kind of has, you know. Yeah, we can. You win some, you're going to lose far more over time. It's kind of a, hey, we just have them in our kind of fence of customers and hopefully they use other services and so on and so forth. I've always looked at, like, how do we make our messaging? Like, how do we make it about a product? Like, I think we've been so. We're so in the service piece of it. But like, our customers don't understand the service piece of it. Like, they don't know what it takes to put in a tankless water heater. But we don't highlight the products a lot. Like, what are all the products? Because again, we don't view ourselves as product pushers. But like, when you get the ad for something, it's about a product. Like, how can I educate more on what a tankless does for you? Or like, how do I generate estimates? Like, people who are naturally interested in this product? Because it's probably a lot easier to move product, which we know comes with the service. And I think sometimes we get lost in this whole service thing and we forget about all the great products that we have because to us, the product is just like, yeah, that's just what we put in. We put in a water heater, we put in, you know, UV light, we put in all these things. But like, a lot of customers aren't even aware unless our techs are really doing a great job of educating, which, you know, hey, we're pushing and trying and they're getting better every day. But like, how do we get that information out in front of our customers so that we can generate sales estimates. Like, people who are want to buy a product that again, we're going to sell the service alongside of it. I think that's where we've tried to like, lean into of like, when I send out an email, I want to get estimates, not like just booking like service appointments or something like that. Like, people call when Shit's broke. But they may not call if they don't know about a certain product and what it may be able to do for them.
- [52:20]
A
Yeah, I think Chris. Chris's guys do a good job with this. We've been using their service. They do a good job dialing that in. I think the unique thing is, like, people think they're just going to send out an email or text mess. People should just book because they have some. We're doing this for $49. Why didn't anybody book? They're just. They're not creative enough and they're not interesting enough, and they're too generic. And you really have to understand how to manage your CRM. Why does somebody buy this and then what do they do next? What kind of products would this person buy after they bought that? Right to this point? I think those are innovative ways to do it. Understanding when to send a message like, the weather changed today. It rained. What did we do? We already have all of our Q. All the customers never bought a sump pump in the last month. What happened this morning? In their inbox this morning, they all had information about sump pumps. How to manage it, how to check it, what to look for, how to do it. If it rain, pumps, all these things like it happened in real time. We send generic stuff over and over and over to your point, in your inbox at night. That's not relatable to anything I might be dealing with. So I don't. You might already do all that Again, we're talking in hypotheticals over here, right? So we don't have enough detail, but that might be beneficial. Just.
- [53:22]
D
No, I think those are some really good takeaway. I got some good notes on that.
- [53:25]
A
You.
- [53:26]
D
You got my wheels turning.
- [53:30]
B
Well, boys, we are at the end now. I didn't get to do the bit I wanted to do because there's only a couple minutes left. I'm gonna try and squeeze in just a couple questions. That way we can get off here at the top of the hour. Okay? So trust me,
- [53:46]
A
we're gonna do.
- [53:47]
B
Instead of the VIP top three questions, Ben, I'm gonna ask you, we're gonna play a little game of would you rather. And if you've played a game of wood or you rather, you know what to expect. This might be slightly different, but I'm gonna go ahead and hammer you with just a few questions. Okay? So don't. Just whatever pops to your head, whatever comes up first. Ben, you ready? Okay. Would you rather lose your best salesperson or your best operations Person. Oh, Jesus,
- [54:16]
A
man, you're really putting them on the spot on this one. On the.
- [54:20]
C
That's a good one.
- [54:22]
D
Good place.
- [54:25]
B
First thing that pops up in your head, you're not gonna lose either. So this is obviously hypothetical.
- [54:32]
A
Great.
- [54:32]
D
That's a great point.
- [54:37]
A
I.
- [54:41]
D
Let's. Let's go. Let's go. Sales for today.
- [54:47]
B
Okay. All right. It gets easier from there. Would you rather have unlimited leads or unlimited employees? Hey, boys, if you have an answer, spit it out.
- [55:08]
D
Leads.
- [55:09]
B
Leads. Okay. Okay. And last one. Would you rather start over with no money or no network?
- [55:25]
D
So start over with the same network now as with no money.
- [55:29]
B
Yep.
- [55:29]
D
Yeah. It's a hundred percent. That's saying.
- [55:32]
A
Yeah, 100. Yeah.
- [55:33]
B
Yeah. Well, there's a few more around here I haven't got to, but I thought that was pretty good. I like that question. When I got those.
- [55:39]
A
That was. That was a. That was a. You came right out the gate on my man, man. He was like, you're gonna. These people. What if they hear this?
- [55:48]
D
Oh, he wouldn't have his feelings hurt.
- [55:50]
B
Yeah, that's why I said it's a hypothetical. Guys, just question. Well, listen, B, man, we appreciate you coming on, and. Have you done a podcast before? Were you your first.
- [56:01]
D
I'm sorry, What?
- [56:01]
B
Have we. Have you done a podcast before? Are you. Are you. Are you. This. This is your first time?
- [56:06]
D
No, I. I'm. This is by far the biggest thing I've ever done.
- [56:10]
B
Okay, cool.
- [56:10]
D
Most professionally organized.
- [56:12]
B
You guys are great. We fake it. Well, we appreciate you. It'd be fun to kind of watch what you do over these next few years as you get deeper and deeper into your GM role there and just to kind of see how things segue with your dad and all that stuff. But it sounds like, you know what
- [56:27]
D
they say, third generation burns it to the ground, so.
- [56:32]
B
Oh, is that what they say?
- [56:34]
D
That's the expectation. So I just got to do better than that.
- [56:39]
A
You make sure those guys over at Redwood sent us a check. Okay.
- [56:42]
B
Yeah, that's what we need. Just 30k. Okay.
- [56:45]
D
We've done three of us in the mail.
- [56:48]
B
Swag in the mail. Appreciate you coming on here, man. I'm gonna try to get everybody off here, so hopefully you had some fun. Glad you got to ask the boys some questions. And to our listeners, like, I would say, man, you know, you. I don't care what you do. Whatever you do, don't talk about it, be about it. So until next week, when we have another guest on here, and hopefully we get a VIP guest, co host who canceled on me last minute was supposed to be on here. I'm not going to ruin the surprise. So we'll push him to the following week if you guys know him well. But Ben, appreciate you guys again and Chad and Aaron, appreciate your guys input on this thing and to our listeners, keep coming back and listening and go out there and kick some ass. We'll see you.
- [57:25]
A
What's the password? Don't talk about it, be about it.