← To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
Jim Abrams on How He Built a BILLION-Dollar HVAC Company
00:40:03
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- [00:01]
A
Hey, what's up? To the Point listeners, it's your boy, Chris. This is one of the most downloaded episodes in to the Point podcast history. And it was back at the end of 2023 with an interview that we did with Jim Abrams, who is the goat of the goats. Like the goat that trained the goats. So enjoy this episode. It is. He still puts on an absolute clinic all these years later. It's one of my favorite to listen to. It's a two parter. So enjoy this podcast with the H Vac goat, the podcast man who started it all, Jim Abrams.
- [00:34]
B
This is to the Point a Rhino experience pulled one of the top home services, marketing and operations podcasts, cutting through the bullshit and getting to the Point.
- [00:50]
A
To the Point listeners, do we have a treat for you. This episode is going to be insane. You're going to get a great history lesson in the world of H Vac plumbing and electrical. Because our guest today is the founder, Clockworks Home Services, which is your one hours. Ben Franklin's and Mr. Sparky's, which was back in 1998 also which was then acquired by Direct Energy in 2010 for 183. 183 million, is that right? 3 million. And then acquired again by Authority Brands back in 2019. Also the co founder of Contractor Success Group in 1990 with our friend and former podcast guest, Mr. Terry Nicholson. Which was. His episode was 88 and 92 and he spoke at Rhino X and then he helped build the largest Weight Watchers franchise and you were even a customer. That's like the best case case study you got, right? That makes you a great salesman. But wait, there's more. This man is considered an H Vac industry icon, the official go multiple entrepreneur of the year awards. Even though he says he's an accidental entrepreneur. The greatest residential service contractor in the world, the father of H Vac Success, the franchise emperor, the profit of profits. The Pied Piper of plumbers, H Vac techs and electricians, the Dale Carnegie of H Vac Success and king of replacements. This man has shared wisdom to help contractors rise out of struggles, failures, depression, overcome hurdles to become multi millionaires. Over his long four plus decades in the industry, he coined the phrase home services. The most influential man in H Vac residential contracting history. Please welcome to the show the H vac OG himself, Mr. Jim Abrams.
- [02:46]
B
Well, thank you. That's quite an introduction.
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A
How did I do?
- [02:50]
C
Great.
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A
Your face got a little red.
- [02:52]
B
Yeah, well, I'm old now, so that happens.
- [02:57]
A
Hey, you earned it. That was so much fun. I Had so much fun writing that out. That was. I was like. It was everything that I hoped it would be. So hopefully it made you feel good. You deserve that. So I'm grateful that you're on here, Jim.
- [03:07]
C
Thank you.
- [03:08]
A
So now you. We just came off Fourth of July weekend. I was just telling you I was up in Colorado. Did you guys have a good Fourth of July weekend, you and the family? What'd you guys do? Were you down in South Florida?
- [03:20]
B
Yeah. We can legally shoot off fireworks here, and my wife's a pyromaniac, so we had a number of our grandchildren and children out at a beach resort that we own and shot off fireworks there that night and had a great, great lunch, barbecue and everything out over the water. Yeah, Shout it out off the beach over the water.
- [03:38]
A
Yeah. Those are so cool. Now, your dad served in World War II, right? He's a veteran.
- [03:42]
B
Correct.
- [03:43]
A
Very cool. Well, I want to just mention something to all of our listeners because, again, I really hope that you're paying attention. You have a pen and paper, you have whatever. Like, you're going to want to. You're going to want to take advantage of this podcast. I mean, there's no greater source. When I say the goat, I'm talking like the first goat in this industry. But this, ironically, is actually your first official podcast. So I'm grateful to be that for you.
- [04:09]
B
Well, see, I was around before the Internet was born. In fact, my son tells, when I tell him the story that at train company where I first started in the industry, that facts was the way to go. They found that utterly unbelievable.
- [04:23]
C
That. That.
- [04:24]
B
That was new technology when I started.
- [04:26]
A
Yeah, I mean, I got to read so many different articles I was telling you on, and like, I had so many different directions I could go. You have so many stories, like, obvious been in the game for so long. There was so much stuff, and I went down a rabbit hole and I was like, okay, I gotta just stop at some point. So I was up at like midnight last night editing and making things so poor Matt. Pretty shout out to Matt for putting it together. Was waiting on me to get questions over to you, but I think we got a good one here locked down. So I don't want to waste a bunch of time. I just want to kind of jump right into so our listeners kind of get an idea. And for those who've actually never heard of Jim Abrams, I don't know necessarily what rock you've been under, but he is he. Again, sharpen your pencil and start to take notes because there's a wealth of knowledge on the on the show today. But I want you Jim, if you would just go ahead and tell us the Abrams impact story like how you got into the trades, you know, to become considered the greatest residential contract service contractor in the world. That's a heck of a title. Sorry for the interruption listeners. I want to give a quick shout out to our title sponsor of Rhino X 2026, Evoke AI, also A to the Point sponsor. We're grateful for of them in my opinion the best AI answering service in the game that actually keeps a human being us based in the loop. So if you hit zero you can get to a human being. When I put these guys up against the other competitors, they won hands down. So again, shout out to our title sponsor for Rhinox and our TTP sponsor Evoca AI, the best AI agent in the game. Check out the link below for Evoke AI in the show. Notes Attention to the Point listeners. Branding has never been more important. Is your brand in serious need of an upgrade? Do you have a new company and need a new brand but don't want to wait six months or pay a ridiculous amount to get it done? If your brand looks like everyone else's, well guess what, you are everyone else. But Prolific. They build brands that dominate from the first Google search to the driveway. Prolific Brand Design can help you be more of your you because you are the unique difference that sets you apart from all your competitors. So let's be real for a second. Your brand is either winning you customers or costing you money. Just ask some of our clients like Ken Goodrich, Ishmael Valdez, my boy Chad Peterman, and even myself. Prolific Brand Design is the creative pros behind some of the best home services, logos, truck wraps, websites and now email marketing campaigns. Wouldn't you love it if your email marketing open rates were 30, 40, 50%? And don't go into the spam folder. Hell, that's how we roll at Prolific. So check them out@privific brand design.com and ask for the to the Point promo. Prolific Brand Design Be More of you.
- [07:11]
B
Be Prolific well, it was a long time ago. So back in the 1970s and I was leaving Weight Watchers where my boss's son was going to be taking my job. So I researched out there and found three things that I thought the future would be Something that would be energy related, cheap food or automobile aftermarket. By default nobody wanted to hire me in the automobile aftermarket or cheap food. So I ended up in the energy related business and went to work for the Train company out of La Crosse, Wisconsin. I helped establish what they called their five saluting men. So the Comfort Corps. And we had a franchise and company owned operations.
- [07:50]
A
Hey, Jim, was that. Was that 19. 1981 you did the train with the train?
- [07:56]
B
No, 1981 was when I opened my own business.
- [07:58]
A
Oh, that was Home Energy Service. When did you go to train? When was that? That was 76. 76. 76, yep.
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B
So got to start at the front end. Ran a telemarketing room in those days, which was marketing for us in those days. Became a straight commission salesperson. 1800 people in the commission in the division. And I worked my way up to the number one position at Trane Consumer Products Division. Left there when I was asked to acquire the GE division of heating and air conditioning, which we successfully did in 1981. So I left and started my own business which was Home energy savers. Picked St. Louis because it was hot in the summer and cold in the winter. So great, great demographics analysis and moved my family to St. Louis. Started one man business, hired one technician. In those days, Yellow Pages were key. They would put out the book in October, but they closed the book in March and I didn't open my business to June. So I would not be in the Yellow Pages for the first 18 months. And that's why I had to default to foot canvassing. Actually walking up and down the streets of St. Louis knocking on doors.
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A
Yeah, boy. And we're going to make it.
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C
We're.
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A
And we're going to hit on that story a little bit later too. But. So that was 1981 when you started Home Energy Services.
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B
Correct.
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A
So then take me from there through the progress of that.
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B
So ran Home Energy Savers, not profitably for the first two years, which I knew would be by plan. But I started very small by 1988, so I started in 81. By 1988 I was the largest in the United States. Not that big at that time, but I was doing $12 million in sales, all service and replacement by 1988. So it took me seven years to grow a business from scratch to one that became the dominant player in St. Louis and then also had a business in Sarasota, Florida. Morphed that into a company that became known as Service Experts. Took that public to the NASDAQ in 1996 and to the New York Stock Exchange in 1997.
- [10:01]
A
So was there like a point when you. Was that the plan with it all along or did you just. Did you was there?
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B
I had a long term partner, John Young. In 1988, he and I started. We'd known each other at Trane. John actually went to work for Ron Smith down in Fort Myers. Ron was in a lot of trouble at that time. Mostly all commercial and industrial. John steered him over to residential and helped him recover dramatically. John decided to leave. We formed a partnership which became Contractor Success Group. John was really a marketing guru in terms of direct mail. And my forte was operations.
- [10:39]
A
Right, okay.
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B
So my plan once we started the group. Yes. In 1990. When we started the group, it was our intent to teach contractors across the United States a similar way of doing business so that we could put them together and form the first publicly traded home services company.
- [10:57]
A
You're the first consolidator.
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B
Yes. In this industry.
- [11:00]
A
Yes. Right, right, right. Man. And so where was it at when you took it? What was the IPO on that? On that when you took it?
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B
We had 60 million under sales. Our market value upon the completion of the IPO was about 200 million do. We grew it quickly to a billion dollars by 1998 was the valuation of the company. And the company was approaching 800, $900 million in sales within two years of coming public.
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A
Man. How did that feel?
- [11:31]
B
It felt good and bad. I unfortunately gone through a divorce just before doing that. So I was president of the company and I headed up all operations. But we had selected a different CEO. And my vision was branding residential home services. His was more about compilation of earnings and driving the stock value. And because he was CEO, I deferred to that. And I actually retired in 1997. My former partner, John Young and I, our stock was worth approximately $100 million at that time. So I thought that was enough money. And I retired for a couple of years before starting Clockwork Home Services.
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A
Yeah, but that was the first time. That was the first retirement.
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B
That was my first retirement.
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A
You've got a habit of retiring again. I love hearing that.
- [12:21]
B
Younger. It got boring.
- [12:23]
A
Yeah. Well, and that's what I wonder because, you know, at some point in time, like, it's not. There's the, like you have the. The wealth or even the generational wealth that it's just part of the game or the fun of doing it in the building. I think it actually, I say, you know, I. I have this in my mind where I want to, you know, run. Run as hard as I can to 50 years old. I'm 43. And then maybe I'll. Maybe I'll semi retire because I don't. I don't know that I have it in Me, I am an entrepreneur. I don't know that I have it in me to not do anything, but I also think it's good for your brain and just to kind of keep you young by having to kind of keep doing things and work on stuff. Like, I don't want to sit. My grandpa was a farmer, retired farmer, and. And he was active and like with golf and stuff, like all the things that you should do in retirement. He was a snowbird out here in Phoenix where I am. And. And then when he stopped doing all the things is when I started to see him deteriorate a little bit. And so I think kind of keeping yourself going and, you know, and sharp is helpful. But then you kept going.
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B
Very hard to stop.
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A
Yeah, it's addicting. Like you have it. It's its own. You know what? There needs to be a entrepreneur's Anonymous. So there needs to be. Somebody's going to start that now. You watch, there may be one that exists already.
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B
It may well. For me, I think I've shared this many times. Back when I was with Trane, I watched a videotape that Vince Lombardi did. And from there he concluded there was only three things that mattered in life. Your relationship with God, your relationship with your family and community, and your relationship with your career. I bought into that. So once you're retired, there's a lot you can do, obviously, to enhance your relationship with God by giving to churches, etc. And there's always something you can do for the community. But that measurement of one's career kind of just stops. And invariably that had been the most time consuming prior to. Because you're going to work every day, et cetera. So I think it's hard. I retired the first time at 50. I came, you know, my dad was an autoworker in Detroit and I had what I thought all the money in the world at that time. And I just, I was so bored. I created a talking thermostat at that time. I created a new pricing system. Everything that would become part of Success Group International, really during my retirement. I got four patents, over 100 different trademarks during that period of time. So it was. It was still active even when I was retired.
- [14:46]
A
You know what's interesting about all this too is you're running national brands and with facts, with the facts. Like, it's just not like we have the technology today to be able to communicate like you. So you probably legit had to get on planes and were you just gone like all the time? And that probably took a Toll on the relationship.
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B
Yeah. I think that's probably why my marriage did not succeed. Yes. I have cards with American with 2 million real miles on them, and Delta with 2 million real miles on them, plus the other hundreds of thousands that I aggregated with no longer flying airlines. Eastern, twa, United. Well, United still flying, but I didn't. It wasn't a hub city for me, so I didn't get that many miles. So spend a lot of time in the air.
- [15:29]
A
Yeah. Because, I mean. Well, I appreciate you mentioning those three things. I think those are obviously, like, really key, too. And this kind of leads me into. And it's not really on the questions we prepared for, but, like, this whole topic of, like, work, life, balance, and is it a real thing? Is it not a real thing? To me, it's a real thing. I'm grateful that, you know, in 15 years of running Rhino, I ran really, really hard the first eight years, like, really hard before I actually realized I need to work smarter, not harder. And I have a family. I have four kids. So that to me, really. And my wife is the COO of this business. But we've gotten a really good balance. And to me, it is important. I mean, you have to make sure while you're building. Yes, there's sacrifice that you have to make, but you don't make all the sacrifices. You got to balance that thing out.
- [16:17]
B
Yeah, I was very fortunate. My three sons from my first marriage all moved here to Sarasota. So I maintained over those years, because of the affluence that we gained, I'd say there was probably a month to six weeks off each year that I would diligently take. We would travel to different places. I would be there for their games and make sure that. So I have a great relationship with not only those three children, but when I remarried, I got two stepdaughters that were very young at the time, and one of them lives here. Both of them lived here at one time in Sarasota. One's now very high up with Apple, so she's got to be out on the west coast. And we have a home in la, so we get to see our kids that are out in la. We have two out in la. And, yep, life's good. Well, you're right about the balance.
- [17:05]
A
Well, and then you also. In this, like, in this interim, too. I think it was in. Well, it published in 2008, but I'm sure it took a little bit to write it. But you also had your. Your book that you had published. I think it Was. Or this was a contractor's guide to greatness. It was it published in 2018, I'm sure. Yeah, I think it was January, I think. I'm pretty sure. I saw that. I could be wrong, though.
- [17:26]
B
It had to be published back during my Clockwork days. So I sold clockwork in 2010. So probably 2008, I think would be more likely.
- [17:37]
C
That book was published.
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B
We printed 10,000. They sold them all. I've seen resales on ebay, on ebay and on Amazon at very high prices.
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A
I saw that.
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C
Very flattering.
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A
Like five grand or something like that.
- [17:50]
B
Somebody paid 5,000 for one.
- [17:52]
A
What in the heck, man? That's crazy. They should have sent it to you to sign it or something.
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B
I signed a whole bunch of books, so it was probably signed already.
- [18:01]
A
Okay, well, my goodness, if you're going to spend 5,000, I'll bet you that you would probably be willing to actually personalize it for them if they sent it to you. Holy crap.
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B
I have no clue who bought it for that well.
- [18:11]
A
And you have a. Well, first off, let me ask a question. How long was that? How long did you take to actually write that? Sorry for the interruption, listeners. I want to give a quick shout out to our evening sponsor at Rhino X 2026, good leap. I love Good Leap. They've been a sponsor for multiple years. They are the best financing option in the game. I know that Peterman Brothers uses them. Redbird Roofing uses them. Rhino has used them as their vendor partner because they're that dang good at getting contractors clients approved. So thank you to Good Leap for being a sponsor yet again for Rhinox 2026. Check out their link below in the show notes.
- [18:49]
D
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- [19:25]
B
So what happened was I actually did an audio call. So it was actually done initially over the phone. And each month, maybe each week, I can't recall right now, but I gave a one chapter lesson audibly, we recorded that and then later went Back and rewrote it. So it took a cumulative total of 30 months to do the whole program. So it was one lesson a month.
- [19:47]
A
Got it.
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B
So there were 30 specific chapters in there. Took 30 months. It probably took about another year to edit and rewrite the book. Because of the way I speak, A lot of oohs and ahs had to come out of there. That's words that are. Were superfluous. So it took a while to edit it, and then we printed it, and fortunately, everybody wanted one, so the print went really quick.
- [20:12]
A
Well, I mean, listen, now you're on to number two. That's coming, and I'll get into it towards the end a little bit more. But you got another book coming out. How long has that one been in the making?
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B
That one, I actually wrote the original one. My wife and I escaped the hurricane here a few years ago and flew up to Maine and just rented a cabin right on the ocean and ended up writing it relatively quickly. It's been rewritten now five times. So obviously my first time through was learning that I'm not a great writer. And it's taken a while to go back and change that. Fortunately, one of my sons is a screenwriter, so he's been able to proofread it for me and redo it, help me out.
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A
Good. Well, I'm excited. I. You know, we've had actually a decent amount of. Of guests on here that have written books lately and. Or have written books in general. And I've been reading. If the book is small enough, Jim, I can read it because my attention span only takes me so far.
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B
This would be about an hour and a half. And I tried to spice it up with stories from my life, too.
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A
Yeah, well, stories make everything more interesting. Right, because you. You can retain the story more. Like, if you put the lesson in the story, it's always easier to retain, I think, at least for guys like me.
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B
I agree.
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A
So I want to kind of get into just, you know, where. What you've been doing lately. Like, I mean, because it seems like if I. And please, I. We didn't talk about this at the time, but tell me if I'm wrong, but was your. Was your last live speaking event back in 2017? It was in Orlando.
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B
Yes.
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A
So you just said, I'm done. I'm like, I'm just gonna. Are you legit, like, retired? Retired? Well, no, because you're the chairman for physical. Right. Physical therapy. Right.
- [21:53]
B
So in 2012, I started a business that's called Bazoom with the intent to invest in other businesses and then apply the knowledge that I gained. I have a 10 step approach that I've applied to every business I've been in. So not only has it worked in home services, but I own the two restaurants here in Sarasota. One of those just got selected six years in a row is the best restaurant in Sarasota. So very, very proud of that. And the other one's a very, it's, I think listed number five on TripAdvisor, so also does extremely well and did that. Then I also started physical, which is a physical therapy business. I started that effectively in 2014 by buying into one center here in Sarasota. Today we are approaching 500 centers in the United States and we are the third largest physical therapy business in the world. I'm still chairman of the board. I did in 2018 sell 51% of that company to a private equity group, New Harbor Capital out of Chicago. So I'm kind of a sit back chairman of the board. I'm not that active. We recruited a very effective CEO who runs the business. And although we took a big chunk of cash off the table in 18, we're now looking at exiting the business sometime this year or next.
- [23:15]
A
Hey, you know what? You really need to learn how to build a business.
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B
If everybody follows my rules. I still work with some business owners, not all of them home services. So they find me and I'll sit down and spend a day with them and do like a 10 year plan with them. And it's just, it is a 10 point system that if you do it and if you have the will to do what's necessary and you know, I've done a company called the mutual fund store. That business last sold for $850 million, which was a financial advisement business. And we franchised that and helped to make that very successful. So it's worked in restaurants, physical therapy, electrical, plumbing, roofing, H vac. It's a broad based program business program that works for service businesses.
- [24:07]
A
So I think it's safe to say it's, it's, it's proven.
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B
It has been proven.
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A
It's been proven. So you have your restaurant, your two restaurants in Sarasota. I mean, is that fun? Is that just something that you're, are you a foodie or you just. Was it fun? It was just another challenge. What was that all about?
- [24:23]
B
The first one I bought had gone bankrupt like four times. And I love their food. So I sought out the chef and said, look at man, I don't think you know how to run a business. I do, but I don't know how to cook. So let's do business together. The partnership didn't work out great, but the business did. And I'm no longer the owner. My son owns one of them and then Michelle Schlingman, who worked with me for decades, owns the other. Unfortunately, in 2020, right at the beginning of COVID I was diagnosed with a rather aggressive cancer and had to have a kidney removed. So I sold those businesses during that period of time simply because I wouldn't be able to pay enough attention to them.
- [25:00]
A
Oh yeah, I didn't realize that had happened. Are you all. I mean, it's canc. Good for you. Congratulations. That's fantastic. So I mean that, that might change your perspective a little bit.
- [25:11]
B
Definitely changed my perspective a great deal. So it was an experience that, you know, I went through chemo and then had surgery. So it took a long time. But I'm cancer free for two years.
- [25:22]
A
Good for you. Congratulations. That's awesome. I mean, and I mean, talk about overcoming adversity. That's something I want, I want to get into because everybody goes through it in any business. And you've not not been like exempt from that either. But is that, is that kind of part of the reason why you've laid low a bit too? Is at least in the home services space, like is from my, at least from my perspective, it seems like around that, like when you. Around that time is when you started kind of like maybe not being at like going out and doing live, you know, speaking engagements anymore and doing things like that. Was that intentional or was that just like kind of a. What happened from that?
- [25:56]
B
It was. How do I say it? I thought I'd probably done as much as I could do within H Vac and home services. I was still intrigued with applying will these business methodologies work to other businesses. So before I was done, I kind of wanted to prove that. The restaurants have certainly evidenced that they will both make phenomenal amounts of money. They survived Covid making money, which is while other people were folding up their businesses and running these two restaurants actually accelerated their sales and grew during that period of time. So that certainly evidences that. And then the fact that we continue to grow our physical franchises and company owned operations phenomenally during that period of time also indicated that this business methodology holds up to recessions and other challenges.
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A
Well, I mean to get through Covid in the restaurant business is quite the challenge. I mean that industry. Wow. Was impacted so much. I mean and there's so many that didn't make. That didn't make it through. I mean, so many. So again, you probably went back to Those, to those 10, those 10 steps that you rely on. Just that's it.
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B
I must say, the PPP program definitely helped restaurants.
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A
Well, that. Yeah.
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B
Took advantage of it, used it correctly. I think we're able to sustain themselves, survive, and then be ready for great growth because they had lesser competition coming out of COVID Yeah, good point.
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A
Well, and I want to talk a little bit about, like, this industry, you know, and I'm going to call Post Covid, and it's not really, you know, what I'm talking about most. I'll get to that towards the end, but I want to hit on that a little bit more. But first we were talking about, like, this overcoming adversity. I didn't know about the cancer thing too, and I'm grateful that you're on the other side of that. But I love, I love good overcoming adversity stories. And, and you might have one of the best I've heard too. And you kind of mentioned it in the beginning about when you had, when you had started Home energy services, you missed the phone book cut off. And that was like the way to pull in business was that phone book. And you didn't miss it. Like, you just. So you had this long wait to get back to it. So were you a little bit concerned there? Like, what happened? I got, you got to share with the listeners how you overcome that adversity. It was like that story was fantastic.
- [28:17]
B
Yeah, that was quite a challenging time for a couple of reasons. So this was, you know, I started my business in the early 80s and everybody thinks economically things are bad now, but the U.S. unemployment rate in 1981 was 14%. So a lot of people out of jobs. St. Louis county was number one in the U.S. with over 20% unemployment. And this was the place I moved my family to open up a business, of all places. And I'm not in the phone book. So it was like, oh my God, I'm going to lose everything that I've worked for my whole life. And I've made such a mistake going into business for myself. But I was there. There was nothing I could do except figure out an answer. So I literally walked up and down the streets of St. Louis, knocking on doors, asking if I could serve people and started to build a business. My grandfather ran a moving business during the Great Depression. And I asked him one time, I said, hey, gramps, how the heck did you run a business when it was over 25% employment. And he said, I only focused on the 75% of the people that were working. Jim. We helped out our neighbors that needed help. But I kept my eye on the 75% of the people that were working. I used exactly that same foundation. But to get to them, it was either telemarketing or knock on the doors. And I could not find people that really wanted to knock on doors. Until one day I was at home. I tried to make it home for dinner every night before going out and running a lead in the evening. And I was sitting at dinner with my wife and three children. And we're devout Christians, so we were praying at that time and seeking answers. And all of a sudden, somebody's knocking on my door and I look out and there's two guys in a shirt and tie and their bikes are laying in my yard. And the first guy said, sir, we're here to talk to you about God. And I'd just been praying for help. And I said, I think you are. Come on in. So I sat down, I said, where can I find guys like you that'll knock on doors? And of course, they were Mormons. So they told me Salt Lake City. So within a week, I'm flying into Salt Lake City, walking around Temple Square looking for people who come back and knock on doors. One guy took mercy on me and told me I had to go to Happy Valley. And I'm going, where's that? And he said, that's where Brigham Young University is located and you'll find what you're looking for there. So I drove to Brigham Young University, which is in Provo, Utah.
- [30:34]
A
Right. Sorry for the interruption, folks. Want to give a shout out to our Rhino X day session sponsor, Chirp. Also a to the point sponsor, Chirp. Oh, I love Chirp. I love Ryan Finn. I love Justin Judd. Those guys are fantastic. The virtual ride along game. They are the best and they integrate directly in with service time. What more could you ask for? These guys are the best of the best. Check out the link below in the show notes.
- [30:58]
B
And met a kid and said, oh, man, my marketing professor's gonna love you. So took me into class and the guy let me speak to his class and I recruited 22 young Mormons to come out and knock down doors. And it was like a record. We sold 3,000 service agreements that summer from the Mormons knocking on doors. And my business just took off. The next year, I made a million dollars. So it was just unbelievable that I found the answer that way.
- [31:25]
A
A million dollars to the bottom. And that was in what year?
- [31:28]
B
That was 1986.
- [31:29]
A
Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of money.
- [31:32]
B
That was five years into business, starting a business from scratch in a very difficult period of time. So, yeah, it was a great deal of money back in the 80s, particularly.
- [31:43]
A
That's. That's. I mean, that's thinking outside. Outside the box, too. And also, like, I'm also a Christian, and. And I believe those aren't coincidences. I believe those are, like, that was meant to be how that went down. But it is interesting for, you know, to think outside the. Think outside the box and then actually do it, you know, not just, like, think about it and you just getting up and flying straight to Salt Lake City. Maybe it was desperation, but maybe you were probably convicted at that point, too. Like, that was the answer. And. And it panned out. I can't even picture you walking around the temple square just talking to me.
- [32:17]
B
That was different. That was in Salt Lake City. So I almost went into the temple, which. You're not allowed.
- [32:22]
A
You're not allowed.
- [32:23]
C
Yeah.
- [32:23]
A
Nope. Well, so I got to know. Do you remember at all what you said? What, like your opening line was when you'd knock on the door?
- [32:32]
B
Yeah. So I'd knock on a door back in St. Louis, and I'd say, hi, my name. I'd step back from the door, had a little name tag on. Always had my booties in my back pocket from the beginning. And I stepped back from the door and I said, hi, my name is Jim Abrams. I'm a local heating and air conditioning guy here, and I think I could help save you a lot of money on your energy costs. If you let me take a look at your furnace and your air conditioner, I'll give you a quick free evaluation. I'll put a sticker on the side of your furnace that lists eight different things here that you should do before you ever call for service that could prevent a service call. And if this sticker's on the side of your furnace when we come out to serve your system, you'll automatically get a 10% discount on any product or service we sell. Also, I'm going to give you my business card with my home phone number. Because I'm not in the yellow pages, I'm almost impossible to find. But if you call this number, day or night, seven days a week, I'll answer the phone and we'll make sure that we get you taken care of. Can I come in and take a look at your furnace?
- [33:30]
A
This is fantastic. You just did the whole thing. I was just looking for the intro.
- [33:35]
B
Hey man, I did it forever so I could give you my telemarketing pitch, my door pitch. You know, I did this for years of my life.
- [33:44]
A
Oh my gosh, that was awesome. Thanks for doing that. That was kind of on the fly, man. You were ready for it. He's a professional.
- [33:51]
B
Well done it.
- [33:53]
A
Well, you know what, like also, even though you were convicted with this flight to Salt Lake City and trying to find, you know, these guys or you know, guys to come and knock on doors, I mean the decision could have went the other, the other way. Like it might not have panned out and I don't know what position I would have put you in, but I remember reading an article and I can't remember which one it was because I read so many of them on that you had that you said make a decision even if it's wrong. And, and this is something that I, when I read through it more and understood the purpose of you saying it, I would really love for you to share that because I think a lot of our listeners need to hear this from you because sometimes you just gotta make a decision. And you're analogy on that I thought was spot on. So can you elaborate on what you meant when you said make a decision even if it's wrong?
- [34:39]
B
Well, I'm not sure what I said before, but today what that means to me is that so many times we.
- [34:45]
C
Get caught into this, what do I do? What do I do?
- [34:49]
B
In my success formula, knowledge is a critical part and you can only gain knowledge two ways. You gain knowledge through experience or you gain knowledge through education. So we're hopefully passing on some education here today. But experience simply cannot be replaced. So when you're faced with a challenge that you don't have the knowledge of, how do I overcome this? Do something you're going to learn. If it's the wrong thing, you'll learn. Don't do that again and you'll learn how to do it better. My new book is actually the subtitle is the Baby is on the Island. So I ran this thing with management forever that I would tell them, hey you, you went on a little spit of land on a river and just for a few minutes you left your 3 year old out here because nothing bad was going to happen. But suddenly the river rises and this little spit of land becomes an island. Your three year old's out on the island and the water is raging. If you jump in, there's a good possibility you're going to be carried downriver and your child will not be saved. So you need to stop for a minute, take a look at how you're going to go after this. But you must do something or else that child is going to be stranded on that island or you're going to drown. You have to do something. So you have to make a decision. You take all the facts into play and then you make your decision and you do the very best you can.
- [36:07]
A
Yeah. So this. And then there was like the. That's. Actually, I didn't. That makes so much sense because I hadn't known about the naming of the book being the baby is on the island. I was trying to understand and I couldn't come up with anything like that made sense to me. That makes sense. I get it. I see the analogy. Well, you had also mentioned to something along lines, I know I'm going to butcher this, but you'll pick it up that you, you. It's not if you are for sure going to make the wrong decisions, but the percentages, as long as you get the percentages, on the upside, you know, that's the one I want you to hit on a little bit. Humor. That looks like you.
- [36:42]
C
Yeah.
- [36:42]
B
Angela Grill, my very first sales mentor way back when. So prior to Weight Watchers, I was a teacher and then I taught at the college level. Ended up as the vice administrator. But the guy that was in charge, Angie, really helped me in life. And he said, look, Jim, if you go to the racetrack every day and bet on a horse, every horse, every day, he said, if you're right 51% of the time out of your lifetime, you're going to end up in a very good place. Even though you've been wrong 49% of the time. Make a decision. So he was teaching me as a young man how critical it was to act rather than just inact. You know, you can't be inactive in business. Bad things will happen to you. The world will take you down. So you have to be able to act. And many times you're going to be wrong. As long as you're right more than.
- [37:31]
C
You'Re wrong, you'll be okay.
- [37:32]
A
Yeah. One more than you lose. Don't kick the can down the road.
- [37:35]
B
Yeah, yep, exactly. So to speak. Like our federal government. Look at where we're at now with our debt. Everybody's just been kicking the can down the road now for decades. And now, unfortunately, our country sees challenges that it's never seen before.
- [37:48]
A
Yep, Yep. For sure, man. I had a lot of those conversations this past weekend. Well, you had mentioned, you know, knowledge being part of your success formula. And I'm always curious and, and even though this sounds like a cliche question, I'm always genuinely interested in everyone's answers and the differences in the answers or the similarities in the answers. But define success by your own standards. Like what? What is success? To Jim Abrams Sorry for the interruption, listeners. I want to give a quick shout out to Rhino X 2026 Keynote Sponsor Pro Book AI. It's ProBook AI. You can check them out in the link below. ProBook AI finds the money you're losing without you having to do anything. It scans your books to catch missed invoices, underbuild jobs, leaks, all kinds of stuff. So let it do the hard work for you on finding out where you're leaking money. Thanks again to our keyNote sponsor, Rhino X 2026 Pro Book. To the point listeners, listen up. What if the biggest thing holding back your business isn't marketing or hiring, but your bennies? The Benefits for home service companies, a better 401k can be the difference between great techs and losing them to the shop right down the street. Basic Capital, our newest sponsor, is the only 401k built to actually put your team on a real path to retirement. Companies that switch over see higher participation have of your teams and dramatically low turnover because your crew finally gets a plan that's a true benefit, not just a checkbox. Don't wait until your best people walk, make the move and click the link below to get 12 months with 0 employer fees when you join Basic Capital.
- [39:20]
B
Well, I go back to those three things, right? So every day I measure my relationship.
- [39:24]
C
With God.
- [39:26]
B
Frequently throughout the day. So by knowing what I want that relationship to be, it helps guide my decisions each day. Then for my family, community and friends, that's very important to me too. I just made a note here because I think it's so important to our industry. Three of my friends passed away this last year that really contributed to our society. Phil deray, who created successware and totally changed the way business was done there. Larry Thornton, who passed away from COVID just a phenomenal guy. Known him since he was a technician at an early stage. And then Rick Hutchison trained so many people here. All three of those guys influenced my world and were positive during the period of time that they did that. So friends, family and community, maintaining those relationships, giving of yourself to those people, giving your money when you can for churches or community or whatever it happened to be. And then lastly, my career, I Measured. I think my success, particularly in H Vac, most people only measured against guys.
- [40:35]
C
In their own town.
- [40:37]
B
Since I came out of train, it was already a national look. So I wanted to measure myself on a much broader basis. I wanted to measure myself on a national basis and really become one of the preeminent players in that role.
- [40:50]
A
Yeah, you know what that actually makes me think of is you've heard the term or the analogy that you are the median of the circle that you run in, or something along those lines. You. So you, what you did is you found yourself a bigger circle.
- [41:01]
C
Yes.
- [41:02]
A
And then measured yourself against that. You know, just so it seems like to me that was kind of what you did, which was unique at that time.
- [41:08]
C
It was, it was. You know, I tell people all the time, they said, how did you end up taking the first company public? I think I'm the only guy that planned to, you know, and planning is part of my success formula. So sitting down and taking a longer range look. So again, when I work with individuals that own businesses, I always start with, where do you want to be 10 years from now? And forget about how much money you want or how many centers you want.
- [41:33]
B
Where do you want to live?
- [41:34]
C
What's your lifestyle want to be like? Because again, being a person of deep faith, I know that Jesus gave me a choice to have free choice, even choosing him. So by having free choice, I can be whoever I want to be. I can do whatever I want to do. It has to be real to me. And when I sit down and put it down in 10 years and say, is this who I want to be 10 years from now? Is that a worthy goal? If it is, you'd be surprised how far you surpass it.
- [42:02]
B
You said you had, I think, Jimmy.
- [42:03]
C
Hiller on the show. Jimmy, I remember very clearly from 2015. He attended a two week class that I did in St. Petersburg, paid $5,000. There were 20 people in the class. 19 of them went on to build huge businesses, Jimmy being one of them. Jimmy at that time was not in real good shape, service wise. He was doing about $300,000, $400,000 a.
- [42:24]
B
Year and doing most of the rest in new construction.
- [42:27]
C
He actually left that class with a plan to be at $50 million in sales 10 years out. He put the plan back behind his desk so he could see it every single day.
- [42:38]
B
And when I caught up with him.
- [42:39]
C
I did catch up with him, actually. It was 2005 when the lessons were. It was 2015 when I caught back up with him, he was at $83 million in sales.
- [42:48]
A
Nice.
- [42:49]
B
Everyone says, how's that possible?
- [42:51]
C
He planted it.
- [42:53]
A
Well, you know, I actually got to do a podcast with Jimmy. Another one of these things, too, where it's like, I heard Jimmy for so long, and it just. He came to. I came here because I went to, like, 23 different speaking engagements the first half of this year. I can't remember which one I was at, but he did a live podcast with me in the expo hall, and I got to hear his story. And it was. I learned so much about him during the podcast and the expo hall that I made him do it again because there was things I didn't know about him that I wanted to dig deeper into that I thought would make for a better podcast. So I made him do it a second time, and it turned out great. His story's awesome. But, yeah, he mentioned that specifically about his plan. And, like, in executing on his plan, you mentioned Rick. What a good dude. I got to spend some time with him at the beginning of the year. He was out here with Dave Geiger and a few, like, a small little group of us that got the Paul Kelly and. And what a good guy. Like, what a good dude. These guys are letting me have it, like, you know, because they bust my chops, too, and I'll bust their chops, but I'm kind of giving them, asking them, saying, hey, it's been 15 years of doing digital for H vac, plumbing, electrical. Guys. Like, here's everything I got. Here's everything I've done. What can I do better? Boy, was that the wrong way to approach that? And so they. It was like a firing squad. And honestly, it's all love that stuff because it helps make me better. I'm willing to take the heat to say, okay, I see the fix and move on. But Rick literally pours a glass of whiskey for me and goes, brought it over to me. He goes, here you go. Oh, nice. Such a good dude.
- [44:25]
B
He started working with me when he was 18 years old as a technician.