Smart Pricing Strategies to Help Grow Your AC Company

Summary

Podcast Summary: To The Point - Home Services Podcast Episode: Smart Pricing Strategies to Help Grow Your AC Company
Release Date: January 14, 2025
Host/Guests: Chris, Chad Peterman, Travis Rinky, Patrick Kelly
Produced by: RYNO Strategic Solutions

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Introduction

In this episode of To The Point - Home Services Podcast, host Chris welcomes a unique lineup of co-hosts, including Chad Peterman and Travis Rinky, to engage in an insightful conversation with Patrick Kelly, President of Sano—a burgeoning HVAC company poised to reach the $5 million mark by the end of the year. The discussion delves deep into Patrick's journey from military service to entrepreneurship, emphasizing smart pricing strategies, sales techniques, and effective operational management to foster business growth.

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Patrick Kelly's Background

Patrick Kelly's multifaceted background is a cornerstone of his business philosophy. A former Marine Sergeant, Patrick served two tours in Fallujah, Iraq, honing discipline and resilience that later translated into his civilian career. His athletic prowess extends to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, where he achieved a black belt and competed at high levels, including a second-place finish in the 2017 Pan American Games.

Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [00:00]: “A lot of people need to listen to the customer more... providing options that make the most sense to what they want is going to make you pretty successful.”

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Transition from Military to the HVAC Industry

Upon honorably discharge in 2009, Patrick faced the daunting challenge of reintegrating into civilian life amidst an economic downturn. Initially insecure and skeptical about job opportunities advertised on platforms like Craigslist, he landed a position with Service Champions—a prominent Southern California HVAC and plumbing company.

Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [11:01]: “I did work technically at a gas station, but it was a car wash, auto spa.”

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Sales Strategies and Achievements at Service Champions

Patrick's tenure at Service Champions was marked by rapid growth and sales excellence. Starting with no prior HVAC experience, he mastered the technical aspects while simultaneously excelling in sales. By leveraging mentorship from seasoned sales professionals like Sean Stevens and Jim Dotson, Patrick refined his ability to guide customers through the sales funnel effectively.

Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [21:39]: “...always communicate in a way to kind of herd the homeowners to the finish line.”

Patrick's dedication paid off as he consistently won monthly and annual sales awards, driving significant revenue through strategic upselling and exceptional customer rapport.

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Transition to Management and Challenges

After a decade at Service Champions, Patrick recognized the limitations of his role as a sales technician and sought to move into management. Partnering with Victor at Absolute Air, Patrick took on the role of Sales Manager, overseeing a team that scaled operations from $2 million to $9 million. However, he faced challenges in backend operations and data management, prompting him to seek further growth opportunities.

Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [27:29]: “...I didn't know what a GM was supposed to do... but we sell. Sold the heck out of calls.”

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Starting Sano and Implementing Smart Pricing Strategies

The onset of the COVID-19 pandemic catalyzed Patrick's decision to establish his own company, Sano. Initially focused on maximizing installation volume by undercutting competitors, Patrick quickly realized that this approach was unsustainable. By shifting his mindset to prioritize quality over quantity, he adjusted pricing strategies to reflect the superior service and installations his company offers.

Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [35:59]: “I changed my mindset to, to not just looking to do as much work, but to do quality work that's good for the customer and good for us as a business.”

This strategic pivot allowed Sano to increase revenue while reducing operational strain, facilitating the acquisition of additional resources and expanding the team with highly skilled professionals.

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Maintaining a Competitive Edge

Operating in a saturated Southern California market, Sano differentiates itself through personalized customer service, exceptional installation quality, and strategic pricing. Patrick emphasizes the importance of staying within one's lane and focusing on delivering unmatched value rather than directly competing with larger conglomerates.

Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [40:27]: “We stay in our own lane... we get very personal with our clients, we really listen, we really take care of them and we do good work.”

By leveraging competitive analysis and continuously refining marketing strategies—including increased ad spend, enhanced online presence, and community engagement through platforms like Yelp and Wrangler magazines—Sano maintains its relevance and appeal in a challenging market.

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Building Company Culture

A pivotal element of Sano's success is its strong, intentional company culture. Patrick underscores the significance of supporting employees' personal and professional growth, fostering a collaborative and positive work environment. Hiring a capable General Manager, Patrick ensures that operational and analytical aspects of the business are managed effectively, allowing him to focus on strategic growth.

Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [48:29]: “Having two of us here, like, it would be cool to hang out with a guy like that. But when it comes to business, I needed somebody that was the opposite of me.”

This approach not only enhances operational efficiency but also cultivates employee satisfaction and retention, contributing to the company's sustained growth and reputation for excellence.

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Future Plans and Growth

Looking ahead, Patrick plans to capitalize on data-driven insights by fully integrating Service Titan for comprehensive reporting and performance tracking. This initiative has already yielded a 14% increase in maintenance memberships, demonstrating the effectiveness of targeted metrics and continuous performance monitoring.

Additionally, Sano is expanding its fleet and increasing marketing investments to drive further growth. By maintaining a focus on quality, customer satisfaction, and strategic expansion, Patrick aims to propel Sano beyond the $5 million milestone.

Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [43:59]: “We're finally going to go into a year with data that allows us to drive this business as to where before. It’s just, you know, we get what we get and to do the best with it.”

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Conclusion

Patrick Kelly's journey from Marine Sergeant to HVAC entrepreneur exemplifies the power of discipline, strategic thinking, and unwavering commitment to quality. By implementing smart pricing strategies, fostering a supportive company culture, and leveraging data-driven management, Patrick has successfully navigated the competitive Southern California market. His story serves as an inspiring blueprint for service industry professionals aiming to scale their businesses sustainably and ethically.

Final Notable Quote:

Patrick Kelly [56:12]: “Everything I've done, competitive wise, was always to be the best... I'm willing to put in the work.”

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Key Takeaways:

• Customer-Centric Approach: Actively listen to customers to tailor solutions that meet their specific needs.
• Quality Over Quantity: Prioritize high-quality services and products, even if it means handling fewer transactions.
• Strategic Pricing: Adjust pricing strategies to reflect the value and quality offered, ensuring sustainability and profitability.
• Data-Driven Management: Utilize comprehensive reporting tools to make informed business decisions and track performance.
• Strong Company Culture: Foster a collaborative and supportive work environment to enhance employee satisfaction and retention.

This episode offers valuable insights for home service professionals seeking to implement effective pricing strategies and operational practices to drive business growth sustainably.

Transcript

[Patrick Kelly]

A lot of people need to listen to the customer more, too, because in your rapport building and just having genuine conversations with homeowners, they're going to tell you what it is that they're looking for or the things that they don't like with their current system. And so if you know what you're selling, you can really tailor a package and then tell them, you know, this, this takes care of that. You know, the thing that you didn't like here, this, this is what's going to change, you know, be the difference. And so I think really just listening to your customer and then providing options that make the most sense to what they want is going to make you pretty successful.

[Chris]

This is to the Point a Rhino experience voted one of the top home services, marketing and operations podcasts. Cutting through the and getting to the point. What's up to the point listeners, it's your boy, Chris. I have got more than one co host today, which is crazy because I rarely ever have a co host. Every once in a while, he makes it. And today he did it. He is the Prince of Christmas. Mr. Chad Peterman himself has made an episode. Chad, it's so good to see you, buddy.

[Chad Peterman]

Good to see you too, bud. I'll see you in person tomorrow night. Come into old Nap Town.

[Chris]

That's right.

[Chad Peterman]

Welcome you back.

[Chris]

I'm excited to be there. And we have a, another, a special guest co host today as well. We have Travis Rinky back in here. One of my, one of my dudes decided to come down and bless us with his presence because, you know, we, he and I, whenever I, I actually officially met, our guest in person was at Pantheon earlier this year. And we won't go into any further details there, but it was a, a great meeting. And, and Travis, you know, and Travis knew, you know, knew our guests, and so I was like, you know what? Travis is here. Come on down and let's, and let's have him, you know, chime in on this because it is a kind of a cool story. You have a great background, which is what's going to make the podcast really good, you know, and we're going to treat this like it's your, your first podcast. I know you did one before, but that was your warmup. This one's going to be a little bit different, and you're actually a different, much different spot than the one I listened to when I was prepping for this. But our guest today is Patrick Kelly. He's the president. And listen, there's something that you and I have Very. Or have. Have in common. It's just one letter off.

[Patrick Kelly]

What's that?

[Chris]

What's the name of your company?

[Patrick Kelly]

Sano.

[Chris]

Boom. What's my last name?

[Patrick Kelly]

Yano.

[Chris]

Yano. Son of a. Get it right. Come on, John. No. Yeah. So only one letter off.

[Patrick Kelly]

I said it like that because I didn't want to be Sano.

[Chris]

What's wrong with that? I like Anno by the nano. Just fail for the record. Okay, so we got Patrick in from Santa, who's an out of Anaheim out in the oc. Hey, by the way, coming to his first Rhino X Chad is Patrick. This is going to be a great experience for him. Going to finish this year around the 5 million mark. You know, not too bad for being a few years in business for himself. You know what? One thing that I thought was worth calling out because I'm gonna brag on you for just a second, and if it's not, you take credit for it anyway because it's your company. But you know, you guys have been a customer of Rhinos for a few years now since 21, and your guys's average booking rate for like net new business that's coming in is around a 52% versus the industry average at like 40, bro. So you're like 12% above industry average on that. So whatever the hell you guys are doing and you're with your CSRS or call answering, well done. That was from the last six months. So like I pulled a decent. A decent month of data for you, running an average cost per lead of $137. So you should be doing good. Okay. It appears on paper that you're doing good. Now if I will go into service Titan, I don't know what it says there, but I can do that for you now with random tracks 2.0. So. But another piece of this that's interesting is your background. So not only was he a. Excuse me, He's a Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine Sergeant, I believe is where what you were. But you also were in. You've done Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for the longest time. A black belt, right? Not to be confused with Chad, who has no belt.

[Chad Peterman]

I have a. I have a black belt on currently, but it is not the fighting type, that is for sure.

[Patrick Kelly]

Genuine weather.

[Chris]

Yeah, if it were a game of vests, you'd be the best right now. So, hey, whenever I was doing a little bit of research too, I. I noticed your cauliflower here. So that made me think, okay, he's either been a wrestler or he's been in fighting or whatever. And I looked at a little bit of your history too. And, you know, not just in Brazilian Jiu jitsu, which you were in a lot of competitions. I think it was you. You finished second in the Pan American Games. Is that right? How long ago was that?

[Patrick Kelly]

I think that was 2017.

[Chris]

Okay, well, the reason I'm sharing this with our listeners is there's a lot of what we're going to talk about. You're probably pulling some of the same processes or things that you put in place or mindset or whatever from some of these time frames, whether it be the military or your fighting experience. We did a podcast way back in the day. This was before Chad's time. You might remember this Travis with Jens Pulver, who was the first lightweight champion in usc. And we did the podcast. It was how to get punched in the face and keep doing was a pretty cool episode. That was early.

[Travis Rinky]

Early on as first or second Rhino?

[Chris]

First Rhino X. First Rhino X. Yeah, he came to the old office. It was way different. Rhino X back then. But then in mma, you also, you know, you fought in mma. I saw. I couldn't find any video. I know it's out there, but I was able to see some images, show.

[Travis Rinky]

Them the knockout video.

[Chris]

I got to see the knockout video, but it looks like you. So you were. I think Your record was 5, 0 in MMA, but. And you're. Well, they all amateur except for the one. You have a one and a.

[Patrick Kelly]

Yes, well, my. My last fight was a pro fight, and then the four were amateur fights.

[Chris]

In the last fight, you knocked out your opponent in 23 seconds.

[Patrick Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Okay, all right, I like it. So. So you worked. You've spent all that time working on conditioning for it to stop in 23 seconds.

[Patrick Kelly]

Pretty much.

[Chris]

Okay, all right, that's fair. But you know what? One of the most impressive things after all this tough guy stuff we're talking about was that as I was doing my research on you, Patrick, I found something that was quite interesting and maybe the most notable thing yet, and that is that you, or some might call you, you, guess I've ever heard of Keeping up with the Kardashians, right? You've heard that before. But have you ever heard of Keeping up with the Kelly's? Because I saw a beautiful picture of you and your family with your wife and two daughters on the front page of Wrangler Living magazine in 2022, and you looked quite dapper, my friend. Now that is probably the most notable thing that you've done today. Because you got to show off your family. It's nothing to do with you. The only downside is I think the magazine's a little misleading because you were not. And a pair of Wranglers. So I don't know what the hell this community magazine was, but they missed, they missed the mark on that one. But anyhow, you guys looked good on that one. Okay, so let's get into some actual, like, business talk. So hopefully I've given the listeners enough information about who our guest. Our guest is. And, and he has built a great business and he came from some really solid businesses too, so he's kind of any. But he also didn't have any skill going into the trades to begin with, coming from the military. So if I, if I fuck this up, you can go ahead and call me out on air, but I think I got it right. So as I said earlier, you were a. So you went to the Marines and you left a sergeant. The Marines. You did two tours, I think in Fallujah, right? In Iraq, Yeah. And then you were honorably discharged in 2009. And, and then when you came out of the military and back into civilian life, was. Did I hear correctly that you went to the old trustee site called Craigslist to look for a job, which is where Chad typically searches for his babysitters and where Ringy searches for his stock market advice and where. Never mind, I'll let the rest of that go. But you went there and I think if this, as the story goes, you found an opportunity with a certain huge Southern California H Vac and plumbing company. And it was one of those big, what they called the big interview. What those, like the big group. The group interviews. And that group interview happened to be with, with what company, Patrick?

[Patrick Kelly]

It was with Service Champions.

[Chris]

Service champions, that's right. Nine.

[Patrick Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chris]

In 2009. So you. I'm just going to tell your story for you, right. You show up and there's. What was there, 80, 90. There's a, there's a huge group of people, I think is what I'd heard. I could maybe over exaggerated, but there was a big group of people there.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah.

[Chris]

And, and you show up, you know, clean cut, in a, in a suit. Was anybody else in a suit at that, at that interview?

[Patrick Kelly]

Well, I, I mean, I wear a suit and tie. And then I was incredibly insecure when I walked into that meeting because I think there was one other guy, Ray, Ray Gonzalez, which is the head trainer for the champs group. And then I kind of looked around, I was like, ah, I Think this is a waste of time. I, I thought it was scammy the whole time. Cause like, you know, I looked on Craigslist, even the phone number was all sevens. And so I was like, I'm just going to call to see if it's even a real number. And then the lady answered and she's like, hey, you know, how can I make your day better? And I was like, hey, you know, I saw an ad that you guys are hiring technicians. You know, I was a technician in the Marine Corps, which was, which was kind of like a stretch, you know, and then she said, hey, can you come Wednesday? So then, you know, I looked at my wife and I was like, hey, I think, I think I have a job interview, you know, But I didn't know that it was 60, 70 people in like a big auditorium training room. And so like just walking in. The odds looked bad. I didn't think I was going to get a job.

[Chris]

You're a marine, dude. You were trained better than that. Like that. That is not. Is it weird to look back now and kind of think that, you know, because I'm sure you had to be a confident dude, you know, coming out of the marines, but maybe it's because where you were coming from was being a gas station attendant. Now, did you not work at a gas station prior?

[Patrick Kelly]

I did not work at a gas station.

[Chris]

What the was that? I listened to who. Why, why did I hear you're at a gas station?

[Patrick Kelly]

Gas station. No, I didn't, I didn't work at a gas station. I don't believe.

[Chris]

Then, then, see, oh, no, no, no.

[Patrick Kelly]

I did, I did. So now we got not a gas station. It was a, it was a, a car wash. I was a cashier at a car.

[Chris]

Wash. Well, whatever, same thing.

[Patrick Kelly]

So no. So, I mean, getting out of the Marine Corps, I think a lot of people don't talk about it. Is that you. You go from being semi important. You know, I was leading combat patrols on the second deployment as a 21, 22 year old kid. And then, you know, you eas, which is the end of active service, and then you literally don't have a job. You know, so, so I'm living at my wife's mom's house and like, I'm screwed. I have nothing set up. I think the economy took a dump around that time. So everybody that said, hey, come see me when you get out, I got a job for you. A lot of those people had lost their jobs. And so it just, it just was a really, like, scary time in my life to where I couldn't just sit there and take my unemployment check. You know, I live in Southern California and I'm married, you know, and so $400 is not going to help me. And. Yeah, but no. So, yeah, sorry. I did work technically at a gas station, but it was a. Is a car wash, auto spa.

[Chris]

Good. I don't feel as bad now. I was like, damn, I must have.

[Patrick Kelly]

Really not been for a second. I was like, what is he talking about? That's a suppressed memory.

[Chris]

Well, listen, now we got that out of the way, let's. Let's merge back into the Service Champion stuff. So, okay, so ultimately you get hired because I don't want to go through this, the whole history of it. But you spent. How long were you at Service Champions roughly?

[Patrick Kelly]

So I worked there from 2009 to about 20 at the end of 2019. But there was like two time periods where I had left for like a month, two months.

[Travis Rinky]

Article, sun.

[Chris]

Oh, got it.

[Patrick Kelly]

I thought, I thought the grass was greener.

[Chris]

And then you found out it was artificial.

[Patrick Kelly]

It was. There was no grass and so.

[Chris]

It was dirt. Sounds like California. Okay, so like, what was the main job you were in? Sales or you. What was the job? What were you doing there?

[Patrick Kelly]

So I think that was the beginning of their program where they started to hire people outside of the industry and see if they can make them technicians. And so prior to that, they were taking guys out of trade schools, taking guys from other companies. And then this was their. I know that they got way better at it, but this was the first hiring class of their in house training to technician.

[Chris]

Got it?

[Patrick Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chris]

So pull. So pulling people from out outside of the trades and then like literally training them from scratch.

[Patrick Kelly]

Correct? Yeah. So I had, I had no heating and air experience. I considered myself pretty technical. I. I knew how to read schematics and. But yeah, no, I didn't. I didn't know how to work on ac, Sell anything with it. And then our training was, you know, I had like a. I still like the guy, but he was like an old retired Navy guy. Smoked a pack of cigarettes, you know, a day and just real slow, didn't sell a lot. And then I, I kind of, I kind of learned from him, the technical side. But then I still needed money, right? Cause I think, I think I was on minimum wage at the time. Maybe a little bit more. But the opportunity to make more, I had to do it for myself. So this guy told me, like, hey, they pay us 60 bucks to sell these UV lights. And then I told him, I was like, hey, if I, if I can sell them for you, like, can you give me 20 or 40 bucks? And he's like, yeah, you know, and so here's a guy that never sold iaq, and all of a sudden there's pages going out every day, selling one or two, and, and it was me. I was like, I needed, I needed the cash.

[Chris]

So you were the UV guy? Yeah, yeah. You're the UV goat.

[Patrick Kelly]

The whole. So I started out as a, a entry level technician eventually when I got my truck. And then our job pretty much is to do maintenance on mostly stuff that they had already put in. So this is six months after service champions had installed the equipment that was my level. So I'm looking for, you know, air scrubbers. I don't think at that time the air scrubbers were, were out yet, but we were doing UV lights, we were doing the electrostatic filters, and then, you know, looking for ductwork, looking for just things that you can add on. But I, I don't remember like the surge protectors or any of that stuff back then. I think it was pretty much UV lights, hard starts, you know, and, and the electric filters.

[Travis Rinky]

So, so you got real good at overcoming that. Why didn't you sell me that or why didn't that come with the system? I didn't.

[Patrick Kelly]

That was the number one objection. So, I mean, every time they're like, why didn't they. I spent $30,000. Why didn't it come with it? And, and then I would just literally tell them like it was a lot. Like when you buy a car, you know, it doesn't come with, you know, it comes with the wheels that come from the car or whatever it is. If you wanted leather later on, you can add it. But, but the reality is that a lot of times we don't know these systems need it until you see how they're running, you know, six months later. And I would show em, you know, you see this dust right here? You, you can be fine. We can clean this every six months or we can add a device that protects your new equipment as well. And so, you know, I, I think putting the UV lights in the coils, if, if dust does get there, it will stay clean, you know, a lot longer than a unit that doesn't have one. But that, that literally was the number one objection. It's, it, it, it almost always turned into a customer concern unless you communicate it correctly. Of, of, hey, I'm just, I'm just recommending it. I'm just Trying to help you guys out.

[Chris]

You know, it's like you may have heard that before, Travis.

[Travis Rinky]

Yeah, these are system enhancements. Not something that come.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah, I think one thing we've done that I think helps in this objection, because we've gotten it too, is just making sure that we offer six options on a new system. And basically it's three, but the other three are that option plus all of the iaq. So it's like either take it or you don't. Well, why didn't this come with it? Well, they offered you that. You just didn't go with that. That option. And then it makes it a little bit easier for the technician, or at least that's the feedback that we've gotten. A little bit easier for the technician to kind of speak through that. Like, oh, well, it looks like right here in your service titan file, they gave you all six, but you went with option three and it didn't include all of this stuff. So here's me telling you that you need it.

[Travis Rinky]

Chad on that or Patrick on that thought because. Because I know Patrick's very well versed in sales. I had my guys start separating accessories from systems. Because when we are in a head to head, you know, competitive bid situation and we've got all these accessories on it, and then the competitor doesn't, they just are offering a stripped down system. You know, we look really expensive. And so one thing we started doing is we give the system options and then we give accessory options. So to kind of overcome what you're saying, Chad, is that, hey, we did offer it, but it's also not in the bottom line price so that we can show that we're competitive. But we also gave you the option.

[Chris]

So you just split them.

[Patrick Kelly]

I could see both. Both ways working. I think it really comes down to the communicator in the home making sure that he's explaining what. What comes with it. And then if it's an a la carte item, same thing. You know that that package can be added to any level of system as well.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah, we've taken a lot of what we've done from like, everybody's been online and built a car. You know, you go on, okay, what engine do you want, what wheels do you want? All of this stuff. And that's kind of how we do it. Kind of what Travis was saying is like, okay, you've picked your system. You got that? All right, let's pick some accessories. Do you want any of these things now? Let's go to your warranty now. Let's go to your financing package, like, just working all the way down, and then they can. They feel like they're in control. Right. I want that, but I don't want that. Or can you take that off?

[Patrick Kelly]

What.

[Chad Peterman]

How does that reduce the price, so on and so forth. So I think that's. That's huge. And I think, you know, the biggest thing is, is just offering options. A lot of people still aren't even offering options. And it's like, come on, you're doing yourself a huge disservice here.

[Patrick Kelly]

Absolutely.

[Chris]

Yeah. Can't buy if you don't know about it.

[Patrick Kelly]

I think a lot of people need to listen to the customer more, too. Cause. Cause in your rapport building and just having genuine conversation with homeowners, they're going to tell you what it is that they're looking for or the things that they don't like with their current system. And so if you know what you're selling, you can really tailor a package and then tell them, you know, this, this takes care of that. You know, the thing that you didn't like here, this, this is what's going to change, you know, be the difference. And so I think really just listening to your customer and then providing options that make the most sense to. To what they want, it's going to make you pretty successful.

[Chris]

So this is a great segue because you were in. I mean, so you basically did sales. Is that what you did for your tenure at the service champions?

[Patrick Kelly]

Well, yeah. So there's levels within service champions. And then, you know, I know a lot of guys come out of that company and always talk about, hey, I was the best here, yada, yada, yada, you know, for however long they were there. But, you know, at that time, I was the first guy to get a sales book, probably by my sixth or seventh month. And then I had. I had really good, like, mentors or guys that were coming in my calls. Sean Stevens, just a beast. You know, he was a guy that I was turning leads to. Jim Dotson was a guy that I turned leads to. So I got to see these guys do their sales presentation the whole time, you know, and I'm just watching, studying, studying, studying. And I started to understand that the little small talk wasn't just small talk, that there was always a direction that they were steering these conversations. And that's when I learned, like, okay, always, always communicate in a way to kind of herd. Herd the homeowners to the finish line, I guess you would say.

[Chris]

Yeah, so. So then, well, you're so you're taking them down the path, but through small talk. Whereas when you're first watching it, like the first six, seven months, learning from some of some great sales guys, you're learning like, these are actual tactics that they're using. It's not here. Small talk.

[Patrick Kelly]

Yeah, yeah. And then to, to the. I guess most people would just think they're just talking to talk, right? And I, and I thought that at first, but then I started picking up and I started asking questions like, hey, did you really care about like, what this was? And they're, they're like, no, no, no. It's like the reason I said that or asked that is I'm trying to bring them back to like the point of, of what I'm trying to tell them. And so it always came up later where I was like, oh, that's why he said that. You know, bringing up allergies, you know, the things that they said about noise, you know, all before they started providing the solution.

[Chris]

Got it. I've always learned better in situations like, like that. Like going and listening and learning and watching from people. I mean, for me, anyway. But now you. Because I'm gonna. I wanna segue from this out into you starting your own business. But you won, you won some awards while you're there. What kind of like, what were the awards that you were, that you were winning at Service Champions.

[Patrick Kelly]

So I, I won a lot of awards when I was there and then it, it depended on. So we were with airtime 500. And then I think it changed to success group. Yeah, the, the success group, those things they, they did monthly awards, they did annual awards, you know, and it's like we always went to their end of the year ceremony where they passed out the rings. The little awards that I won, they're not little, but early on it was the, the most IQ sold or highest club memberships. Then later it was the, the most duck work sold, you know, in a given period. And then once I became a senior tech or a selling tech, I mean, there was 15 other guys that were really, really good. Right? And then I think, I think what drives me is, is competition, right? I just, I just, I put in the work and then I look for the result. And so nothing better than to, to be next to 15 guys that were just as good as me. And it really came down to every day, every call is going to matter. So when that report comes out, the total of what you sold comes out. Like you, you couldn't let off at all because, you know, this guy's not letting off. That guy's not letting off. And so it was the consistency in treating every call like, you know, this is the time. I'm not going to get this time back. I have to do something with this. Then I started winning monthly sales awards. You know, I think at the time these were pretty big numbers. Like 2011, you know, I was, I was breaking into the 300 and 400,000 range. And these were mostly calls where they're tune up some repairs. And so it's like, let's not get it confused with leads that are set that I'm closing over the phone. Like this is, this is physical calls that I had to open up the equipment and take the customer from thinking the tune up for $69 or $77 is going to fix their system. So. So, you know, I was averaging two and a half calls a day, I think is what it was. So some days three, some days two, you know, so I didn't have hundreds of leads that, that I was able to convert it. It was, it was b call that I got for the day that the two or three. And then I had to make the, the number off those.

[Chris]

Got it. But so, but you weren't actually you. So you never did like straight installation. You were always on that, but always on the sales side?

[Patrick Kelly]

No, I didn't do install until I started my company and then I actually installed for a year and it is brutal.

[Chris]

Great. Can't wait to get to that part. Brutal. Boys, chime in whenever you need to, but I'm trying to get us to that point. Um, and so you did eventually leave Service Champions and you went to. And we'll kind of spend just a minute on this. And then you went to work with absolute air. Right? Is that, is that right? Was that the transition?

[Patrick Kelly]

Yes. Well, so. Victor. Victor. So. So long story short, I, I just knew that I wasn't. I didn't want to be a selling tech for, for the rest of my life. Right. And then internally, based off my age, I. I just knew I had to do something, but I didn't know what I wanted to do. Right. I knew I had to get into management. I had to learn how the business works internally, the, the marketing side, you know, all of that stuff. And I'm. And I'm still learning that today. So I struggled mentally of like, you know, I'm not going to become a manager at Service Champions because I'm, I'm about 10 years behind, you know, 15 other guys that, that the likeliness of me surpassing those Guys to take management positions. I didn't think it was realistic. Right. And then Leland always held seniority. Like, seniority was very important. You know, whoever got there first, you know, usually had the path, right. If they, if they met all the other things that they were looking for. So, you know, I was like, do I wait till these guys retire? And then keep in mind, I didn't know that the company was going to sell or I, I just assumed it would always be owned by Leland, you know, ran by Leland. And so Victor jokingly told me, you know, one day I'm going to make you my gm. You know, keep in mind, I don't want to be a gm, but I do understand H Vac. And so him and I, I ran his shop, I think from his. I think it was his third year or second year. And it was, it was, it was wild. You know, I think we had gone from 2 to 9 million. Just. Just crazy.

[Chris]

So, so you went from sales to being a gm. How was your management skills? Because usually sales and management are pretty.

[Patrick Kelly]

So I basically really just leaned on. I think I was, I was more of a sales manager, right, Because I, I didn't know what a GM was supposed to do. Victor didn't know what a GM was supposed to do. So, you know, one of our biggest struggles over there was the metrics that we needed to know. The one thing between Victor and I that we did know is how to sell. So. So we sell. Sold the heck out of, out of, out of calls. You know, I would go out with the guys. We ran a pretty solid sales team. And then the money was there. You know, it's. Obviously we're doing installations. The money's there. It's. It's just a lot of the back end stuff that, that I personally, I struggled with.

[Chris]

Got it. Okay. So I'm gonna scooch past us a little bit. So you got. You came from this heavy sales experience. Now you're starting to learn a bit of management. We'll call, just call it management. All right. And now you're like, okay, I think maybe I want to go do. Do my own thing. Because when you are like, I think there's a natural path for people who are really great at sales when you're eventually like, I can, I can sell and do this for myself. I seem to find the right, the right people to do it, which is probably a lot of companies are like, you know, companies are starting anyway as a sales guy leaves and goes, starts on business, which is what you did, and you start now, so how long. Well, first off, how long were you. Abs. Absolute. Like, how long. What was the timeframe there?

[Patrick Kelly]

I want to say it was a year, right into the start of COVID And so that. That. That's where things started getting really weird. You know, the. The news was always on, and people were freaking out. You know, we had sent everybody home for two weeks, Then we decided to bring them back. You know, we. We just had no idea what was happening in the world because that was. You know, there's this disease that's going to kill everybody that's coming. And so, yeah, we. We didn't know what to do. And then that was kind of the time where Victor, you know, kind of pulled me to the side, and he said, hey, you know, I. I can't pay you anymore. And then I. I just. You know, I said, all right. You know, I mean, so. I mean, that's how I. I still talk to him today. But I. I always laugh at that. I was like, well, all right, buddy.

[Chris]

Well, you could say thank you. Okay. You could say thank you. So. And so then. And then you start. You know, you start your own company, and it's Sano.

[Patrick Kelly]

So right after that, I actually worked for Ken Goodrich, Ken and Landon at Ghetto for about. Yeah, for about nine months. I. I'd called Landon. I said, hey, Victor, I'm not with Victor anymore. They flew me out to Phoenix the. The next day. And then I. I had done my interview over there. I met Dale, you know, Darren, Ken, and then I toured the facility, everything. And then pretty much, I started. I was the sales manager in Corona, and just same thing through Covid. Just really weird, you know, I don't think I got to represent myself very well in that organization. But just the one thing. Really, really good company. Just very, very different, if that makes sense. So it's like, you look at Leland style, you look at Ken's style, and they have found two very different ways to both be extremely successful.

[Chris]

Yeah, it's good for you that you actually get to get a couple different views at how to grow successful businesses.

[Patrick Kelly]

And so from there is when I started my company.

[Travis Rinky]

So I want to jump in here because I met Patrick. You know, he's an early adopter and supporter of New Day, so thank you for that. But I was in Anaheim, and Ishmael said, hey, we're going golfing with this guy Patrick.

[Chris]

He's.

[Travis Rinky]

He's awesome. You're gonna love him. He's got this great company he's building. You know, he's A good buddy of mine. And I said, okay, you know, I've got no idea what I'm walking into. And you know, for the next, I don't know, six hours, I, I had tears come out my eyes where, where laughing so hard and had a great time. But the thing I want to talk about with you, Patrick, that really impressed me and I want to, I want to go back to what Chris said is, you know, he said, a lot of guys, you know, are doing sales and then they start their own company. But the other 50%, I'd say that's half of it. The other 50% are technicians that are in the field that don't have the sales experience. You know, they're going to go out and they're going to do, do good by all these customers and they're going to be cheaper than their boss and they're going to just take over the market. And the thing that really impressed me is that a, on a weekday you were golfing after starting a company three years ago, and then you proceeded to tell me you golf every day, which I was extremely jealous of. So I, I took a mental note of that. I'm like, how's this guy golfing so much with a new company? And then, you know, how, how is he doing so well with his procedures and his sales? And one of the things that you said to me that you benefited from, you know, working with organizations like Service Champions is that you weren't price conscious and conditioned at those like, you didn't go to market with I'm going to be the cheapest. You went to market with, I'm going to be the best. And I think that's a crucial point for any listeners that might be technicians that want to go in the field is that that's the way you're doing it and it shows by your success is the right way to do it, is that you, you seem to have a very balanced life. You've got your wife and daughters you spend a lot of time with. You have the ability to enjoy your, your personal life outside of work, but you also work hard, you know, very hard throughout the day too. So can you speak to that and how that benefited you?

[Patrick Kelly]

So to go back to the golf, the I golf for like two hours a day, and then that's, that's usually before work or after work, but it's, it's the same time slot that I was training jiu jitsu at. So I, I, I, I backed off the jiu jitsu for a little bit. Golf has me like, super intrigued. But, oh, my God, it is such a hard thing to do. But so we struggled a lot. So the first year, the goal was to just get as much business as we could, right? And so we kind of got caught up in just undercutting everybody and doing all this work. And then at the end of the day, you would look at the numbers, and it's like, how can we do installs every single day? And we're barely making money, right? It's like we. We would have months, our first year where we would do, you know, close to 200,000. And when I dig into the financials, everything, I'm like, wow, we're not, like, we're not making anywhere near 200 grand, right? Because when you're. You're done paying for the equipment, the labor, I mean, everything that there's very little left over. And in the back of my head, Leland had always said, never be, like, always be the most expensive. He prided himself on being the most expensive. But with. You had to provide the best service, the best installs, you know, because it's not good if you're just expensive. But you suck, right? And so after the first year, I just. I just checked myself and I said, hey, you know, you. You came from selling the most expensive systems in the area. And why. Why are you now just fighting to. To get jobs? And so we. We tie it down. We. We raise our prices, you know, and then we. We started making money with less work. And so we were doing less installs, but then making a lot more money. And then that was allowing us to buy more trucks, to get more people over here to start setting this place up like a real company, right? And so I do believe that we have some of the best, like, installs in the area. And for that, I should be paid well to do this kind of work. You know, we. We see all the stuff that's happening out there with the companies that do their installations, you know, customers calling us that, they won't call them back. The ceiling dropped out because the, The. The drains were done, right? So we, we see this stuff and we don't have those problems. And so that, that was one thing that I think was crucial to where we are today is that I changed my mindset to, to go back to. To not just looking to do as much work, but to do quality work that's good for the customer and good for us as a business.

[Chris]

So I actually was making a note when you were talking, changing pricing is one thing, but there's now that you change the price and you're like, oh, we're doing less work, we're making more money. And then my brain shifts back to, well, how can we do more and make more money?

[Patrick Kelly]

Of course, yeah.

[Chris]

So when does that kick in and what do you start implementing at that phase?

[Patrick Kelly]

So that, that was like a small sample, right? It just, it just showed like we did less number of installs in one month compared to this month with similar top line revenue. But then you look at the, the net income and it was totally different. And so that's the next step. Is that okay, how do we just do more work at the right price and then we should make more money? Right? And then. Yeah. So that's where we started increasing the marketing. I, I've been with Rhino since day one, right? You guys, you guys were the original ones to, to build the website, everything. And then, you know, I started talking to our rep over there on how we can start expanding, increasing the, the call volume. Then I started adding other things. Yelp, like those Wrangler magazines. I'm in, I'm in all those magazines in our, in our coverage area to where I'm like the expert contributor just, just to, to keep people seeing us every month. And it's. No. And then so yeah, we started doing a lot more work, doing better with the calls and, and converting more, if that makes sense. And so there, there's been a shift too, is that I used to run all the no charge estimates, everything. Most of that stuff is handled by my guys now. So I go out in the field if it's someone that's requesting me or stuff like that. But for the most part, I'm in here right now. We're building all our processes, tweaking some of the stuff, and then we're onboarding with Service Titan right now. And so I'm pretty excited for that to get the reporting that Service Titan offers.

[Chris]

Do you, any of you guys have anything you want to say before I jump to this next topic?

[Chad Peterman]

Jump to your next topic. I've got something, but I'm following along here.

[Chris]

Okay. I just, you know, you, you, you're in a incredibly competitive market with a lot of massive players with very shitty weather in regards to a H vac contractor. Life beautiful for the homeowners, but like, you know, one, I appreciate you being a customer since day one. That is not Rhino protocol. For those who are listening, we typically don't like to be your, your very first marketing company, but in this instance, it worked out okay. So grateful for that. But you started to adopt marketing and do more natural progression of I think most businesses. And to hit it, you know, to hit a 5 million mark, you know, is, it is a market should be proud of. But you're in a hard market, man, and as you scale and grow that thing like it, it doesn't get, it doesn't get easier, it gets harder. And I think that what I'm curious to know is like, where's your. Because you've said a few times around, like changing your mindset, which is like the trigger to whatever it is that you're doing next. You are an incredibly competitive market. That's not going to change with, you know, hard weather patterns and a lot of, you know, a lot of competition. And let's, you know, like from a marketing perspective, you know, like search volume is down, you know, and not gone, it's just down. But you know, the horizon looks good because the presidential debate is over. We could all move forward. But like, what are you doing, man, to stay competitive in that market? Because it's not just about like, you can't outspin these people, right? You can't spend some of these companies. So that's not the game. And I do love what you said about, you know, like the Wrangler magazine thing and focusing on. I know that Travis did that a lot, you know, because where his business was at and where I live is the same, same community. So I would see those guys everywhere. I mean, they owned that community, which is a great strategy. And if anybody says, hey, who do you use? It was always pro skill. And so I assume that's, you know, same thing that you're doing. And you can't drive through the state of Indiana without seeing Chad anywhere or hear him or hear them on the radio or see their trucks or whatever. But like, what is it that you're doing to stay competitive in that market at the size that you are?

[Patrick Kelly]

So, so it, once again, it's a mindset thing, right? If you realistically sat there and said, oh, I'm gonna take service champions down, I'm gonna take NextGen down. Like, it's not realistic, right? Because Apex owns a bunch of the big companies out here. They, they've made a big group. You know, you have the service champions, you have. Next gen. NextGen is literally two blocks away from me. So it's, they're, they're right down the street. But we, we stay in our own lane. I, I think we offer something very different from, from what they, they offer. You know, we, we get very personal with our clients, we, we really listen, we really take care of them and we do good work. And so there, there's enough homes in our coverage area where, you know, if you run a good company, everybody here can be successful. Right. And then the beauty of having these big competitors around me, it also justifies or legitimizes my pricing. Right. Because the consumer doesn't know that just because I don't have 200 employees doesn't mean that we don't do good work. Right. If they get a bid from next gen, they get a bid from service champions and then they see my pricing, they're like, okay, we got three companies that are right in the same vicinity. But it's like, I personally believe that once these companies are picked up that they are not companies that typically get better per se. Maybe I'm wrong, but that leaves an opening for me to emerge as a privately owned, very well ran company. Right. A lot of employees become available when these, when these companies get purchased, you know, so the access to great people is there, you know, and then that's what we're doing. We're just, we're running our own little race against ourselves. We don't really worry too much about, you know, who's out there or what they're doing. If we take care of our customers and continue to just do good work, you know, stand behind the problems that we have in the homes, you know, immediately, then we'll always, we'll always be good for the consumer. Yeah.

[Chad Peterman]

Patrick, as you, I mean, obviously we're a couple of weeks from 2025. What, you know, where you're at now, what, what are, what are some of the things that you're thinking or trying to solve for, to get to that next level, wherever that may be for you.

[Patrick Kelly]

So I think pretty much it's going to, we're going to increase our ad spend. We, I got two trucks being wrapped right now, so I just, I just added two more trucks to the fleet. We, we've been kind of winging since day one till now. You know, we, we didn't have great reporting with the, the CRM that we're on. We've struggled to generate the reports and everything like that, but it's like with, with the addition of my gm, who's here now, you know, we're, we're getting a lot of stuff done. So he brings a lot of skills to the table that I didn't have before. So, you know, just, just general tracking for the guys to see their performance against the others. Everything we Got a really good tracking system now to where we're tracking the memberships, we're tracking their revenue per lead, their conversion rates. All of that stuff is here now. And so we're finally going to go into a year with data that allows us to drive this business as to where before. It's just, you know, we get what we get and to do the best with it. So I'm really excited for next year.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah, I think you're ahead of the curve there for sure. At your size to have reporting and all of that stuff, which I think is really powerful for technicians and then obviously powerful for you as a business owner to know what, what in the hell's going on.

[Patrick Kelly]

We ran a tech tracker for the first 30 days. We just completed it and we had a 14% increase across the board just in our maintenance, memberships, everything. And that's a 14% increase from January of 21 to 2 to October of 24. And so just that alone, some of these guys have sold more maintenance programs than they have year to date in one month. And all that did is a tracker to where they could see what we're focusing on. And this is our target to hit, you know, and it, it, it changed. It changed a lot.

[Travis Rinky]

Yeah, I, I love that at your size that you hired a gm, you see so many people, you know, Tommy eats that dead horse of like hiring for your insufficiencies. And a lot of people talk about it, but so few people do it. And you know, I think about a good friend, Matt ac, who I, I hammer on constantly to hire a GM because he's just running himself ragged.

[Patrick Kelly]

And I talked to Matt Dailies. I like him a lot, he's the best man.

[Travis Rinky]

But I, I just love that you, you're investing in that and being priced right enables you to do that and hire those people because it's, it's so few people do that. They try to run that GM and ops and sales manager position so long that they, they don't have time to actually steer the business. And I think that's a great investment at your.

[Patrick Kelly]

That, that actually you are the one that like finally pushed me. So I was at like 95% that I knew I needed it, I knew I wanted one. And then, you know, when I had a little sidebar conversation with you, you were telling me that I'm kind of right at the size to where now is when I want to start building a solid management team around me. And that's what's going to help me get to where I'm trying to go and so you're the one that I was like, you know what Travis told me that's like the 5% I needed to just let's make it happen.

[Travis Rinky]

Well, at least I'm consistent.

[Chris]

Well they're just full of shit sound so say something. Well, good for you. It's exciting one I'm excited you're going to add more to your spin, so thank you in advance. Unless it's paper quick, then never mind. But the, you know, I think that, you know, it is cool to one, I've heard so many of the, so many of these stories over all the years, you know because it's been, you know, 17 years for me working in trades and seeing all these different, you know, ways that people built businesses and heard different stories. I just think that you one, you, you did exactly what we all preach and that is like don't try and remove the wheel. Like listen to those who have done it and done it in current day state and, and like do the things. It's like Chad will always say when he was the next star he didn't try to he like he heard what they did and he did that thing and then focused on that thing. And I think one thing that, that you're doing well that others that are making a mistake on are there's a lot of shiny objects right now and you're not focused on all the shiny objects. You know, it doesn't seem and because that can also be a distraction in growing the business. But man, it's probably, you know, I love, well one, I love that you called out that you were golfing for two hours which replaced your jiu jitsu workout in the morning. So that way everybody knew that you're still working because we don't want them to hear that you like you could golf through.

[Patrick Kelly]

No, don't be misled that you could just not be at work. You have to be at work.

[Chris]

But you know, you, I mean you, you, you are trying to hire somebody who can fill that the things that you are not, are not good. At some point you have to because you can only stretch yourself so thin that you're doing a, you know, I'm going to mile wide. An inch deep is no good for, for growth. But so you know, hiring a gm, great. Good for you. Now you can kind of get back to focusing on know what, where you can drive the business from. You know, from the top looking at other things and kind of like you said, stepping in when you need on certain things. But eventually that won't be you anymore. It'll be someone else, whoever you're bringing up with you to be that, you know, sales manager, whatever it is.

[Patrick Kelly]

Right. I think, I think understanding your strengths and weaknesses is that, you know, I don't think, I don't think it would be smart to hire a guy just like me.

[Chris]

Right.

[Patrick Kelly]

And having two of us here, like, it would be cool to hang out with a guy like that. But when it comes to business, I needed somebody that was the opposite of me. Right. Maybe, maybe not as much of a people person, not as much of a sales guy, but somebody that's a little more reserved and analytically more sound, you know, more in tune with numbers. And that's what I have now. And so it's, it's. We combine our strengths to make one, one big, strong management team. And so very excited for what we're going to be doing soon.

[Chris]

Yeah, for sure. I'm excited to watch it. And, and I'm curious to know when you hired your GM or, or any positions that you're looking at, are you, are you asking someone about, about compensation plans and things like that so that way you're not trying to like, figure your own out, like you're asking people. I'm like, hey, what's a good comp plan for?

[Patrick Kelly]

Well, yeah, of course, I, you know, I talked to you guys, your friends, Ishmael, everybody, and, and you, you have to gauge the market on, you know, you offer a stud, you know, a 50 decrease of where they're currently at. You know, that conversation's not going anywhere. Right. But they also have to understand that if they're coming from a big organization into a smaller one, this, this is a role that we're going to grow into. Right. And so I, I can't, I can't afford to pay, you know, the same. But then when we look at everybody's pay plans and what they are, we, we pay really good for, for even being a small shop, the installers, the techs. I, I think we probably have some of the best pay plans out of all the, the companies that were, that we were talking about. Good.

[Chris]

You should feel good about your pay plan. Yeah, that's important.

[Patrick Kelly]

So, so a lot has changed. You know, as a tech, as a sales guy, it's all about what, what I could do, what I could provide for my family. And, you know, I'm finding a lot of joy in seeing my employees succeed and, and improve their lives. You know, a lot of these guys are having children. You know, they're Getting ready to buy homes. And that's the real win in my book, you know?

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah, I think that's such a great point, and I think it's something that gets lost. And what we try to convey to our managers is that your success is only bred through their success, and it's your job to support them and find out what their scoreboards are. Because, you know, an individual contributor, their scoreboard may not be the company hitting budget. Like. Yes. In the background. Yes, it is good that the company hits budget and all of this stuff, but, like, just constantly beating that over their head is like, what's in it for them? It's more. So, hey, let me show you how you can make more money and put more money in your pocket as a result. The company will hit budget if more of you guys put more money in your pockets. But I think that's just such a critical piece of management that oftentimes gets lost, that it looks like that you've kind of hit the nail on the head with the trackers and. And finding people who are good at the things that you maybe are not so good at or whatever it may be. I just think that's an important point for people to take into consideration is the people that are doing all the hard work that are out there doing it. Are you showing them how they can win? Winning is not getting paid on Friday. That's kind of expected. It's more. So, hey, where are all the other opportunities that you can make more money and, you know, buy the boat or buy the new house or whatever it is that. That you guys as a family have on your scoreboard?

[Patrick Kelly]

It.

[Chris]

It's.

[Patrick Kelly]

It's fun. It's fun to see. You know, we. We have such a. A good team vibe here. You know, compared to any place I've ever worked. I. I've never seen so many people willing to help other departments and just work as a group. And so, you know, coming to work every day is. Is pretty fun.

[Chris]

God, I loved that time. Like, it was a different time. I mean, it's. No, it. I think it just. It just. It just changes. Like, it doesn't go away because that's you as a human being, you know, and you like that feeling. And I do, too. It just. But it, you know, as it scales and gets bigger, it does change. Like, I can't have, you know, goal. Like goal setting means with 300 people.

[Patrick Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chris]

You know, like, and it's. It's so. But it changed. But the feeling doesn't go away. It's the Same thing. Like, I love hearing all the great stories that happen from staff, you know, today. But to Chad's point. Yeah, it's not there that what motivates them is not hitting your budget.

[Patrick Kelly]

No. Never gets less instrument.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Chad Peterman]

Yeah. I mean, I think it's, It's. It doesn't. It doesn't go away. It just becomes harder to manage. And so I think that's a critical piece as people are growing their companies. You know, how do we keep the culture? It's going to. It's going to morph. It's going to change over time. But how do I keep this? You know, what are the common, common things that today we want present, you know, when we're quadruple the size. And then how do I, as a leader engage with people on the same. Or attempt to. On the same level as when we had 20 people and now we have 500? You know, what does that look like? You know, one of the things that, you know, I've really done is just trying to stay in contact. So, like, every Monday, I get a list of all the birthdays for that week, and I text people on their birthday and say, hey, happy birthday. We give employees, they get a PTO day on their birthday, so they're usually off, but I'll shoot them a text and just, happy birthday. Enjoy your day off. Do something fun. Happy to have you here. And it's just like, the little things like that, I think, are, to me, the thing that have helped us kind of keep that vibe is just, hey, it's my job as the leader to drive the culture forward. And then we have all these other people in place that are, you know, doing the blocking and tackling and making sure everything's done. But making sure that that is at the forefront, I think is important as you grow, because it can change really quickly. And then all of a sudden it changes and you're like, oh, I don't want this. We want what it used to be. And it's like, it can be. It's just going to be a little bit different.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Travis Rinky]

One of the things that my good buddy Texas Medley always says that I. I always really took to heart is he says that if you're not intentional about building your culture of what you want it to be, your culture will build itself and you may not like it. And so, yeah, he focuses a lot on. On that culture and that family feeling inside his company. Even as he's scaling up, he maintains that culture. So I. I think that's some special. You're Building there, Patrick and some you're.

[Patrick Kelly]

And I always wanted to be, you know, where it's enjoyable to be here, you know, and so it's, I mean, I like being close to people. I like celebrating with people. That's really all I want is everybody to win together. We can cry together too if we lose.

[Chris]

And so I think, I think what you just said is exactly what I was thinking. It's a lot more fun to win together than to win alone. And you certainly are a competitor, so like that is the fun, man, because it's like the endorphins, that thing hits off when you hit something, but when you miss, it's like, what's the lesson I learned in the miss? That's part, that's the journey. Like that's what we're living.

[Patrick Kelly]

It's. It's like my. Everything I've done, competitive wise, was always to be the best. And then as I get older, you know, the, the new, the new competition is, you know, to, to provide the best stuff for these guys. But how do we as a group, you know, beat everybody else, you know, because it's, it's. I've never done anything to try to be second place, you know, and, and, and I'm willing to put in the work.

[Chris]

And that leads back to like your, your history, right? Like these are all the things that you kind of built into your autopilot of just how you go about things. And then you lead from that space, naturally, because that's who you are and what you believe in. And it's not like some fake leadership style that you have, it's who you are. And people can buy into that because they see that, that's how like they see that you do what you say, you know, and there's so much power in that. And I think that that's absolutely an absolute superpower for you to have. You can be a good technician and you can wanna install the best, you know, do the best installation. It looks the cleanest or whatever, but that's what it is. It's an installation. It's. How do you keep driving more of these insta. Like maybe if you're an installer, you don't know how to do that. I'm not saying all installers, I'm just saying in general. But what you have is a superpower and that's like one you're kind of willing to put in all the work it takes and like to grind through the hard shit and to get punched in the face and keep going.

[Patrick Kelly]

I think it's a curse, but, I mean, I'd rather have it this way. But I do some days wish that I was just a chill guy, that, you know, mine is, like. It goes so fast, you know, and so, you know, whether that's caused by combat stress and then my addiction became, you know, just exhaustion, you know, I. I don't know, you know, but that is. That is who I am. And good things take a lot of work. You've got to put in the work.

[Chris]

Yeah, man. We talk about, you know, every. Everything's hard. You just got to choose what's hard, you know, which hard you want to. You know, which path you want to go down, which. You know, it's hard to, you know, not have shit and to not accomplish things, and it's hard to accomplish things. Like, I'll take the. I'll take the ladder.

[Patrick Kelly]

Yeah.

[Chris]

So do. We're an hour into this thing. Flew by. Literally at the time that I wanted to stop just passed. So I apologize already to you guys, but I appreciate you, Trav, coming down into the studio and hanging out with me. And then, Chad, I appreciate you actually making the show.

[Patrick Kelly]

So that's the one thing real quick with the. The nuve thermostats.

[Chris]

We're.

[Patrick Kelly]

We're putting these on every install, and we love these things. The customers think they're the coolest things in the world, you know, and then we're a maintenance company at core, so the memberships and the thermostats, they. They tied right in. It's the same thing. And so we. We love the product that you guys are making.

[Travis Rinky]

Thank you very much, Patrick. And I'll be out there in two weeks, so maybe you could take a full day of golf.

[Patrick Kelly]

I mean, there's. There's some beautiful waterfront courses out here, and if you. If you want to enjoy a little raise in temperature, Chad, get your butt out here.

[Chad Peterman]

I could use that for sure.

[Chris]

Well, Patrick, congrats, man, on what you're building. I know you have. You know, you still got. You're still on the climb up the mountain, but, you know, enjoy the climb. It's fun. You're doing a great job of it, and now I'm excited to watch your journey. I know these guys are, too. And, of course, we'll, you know, always be here, you know, along the way. And, you know, it's just. It's always cool to hear a story like this. Like, you know, this is. Like, this is the amer. Like, this is an American dream type of thing. Like, you get to be. Go and be your own entrepreneur, build your own business and change people's lives within your own company, which is pretty badass, including yourself, by the way. And you get to do it with two daughters watching you build a business. Right? And that's pretty cool. I've got four. I have four kids, and they've all seen the ups and the downs.

[Patrick Kelly]

I see your. Your wife's posts every day, and I was like, you have a pretty wide range from your oldest to youngest, right?

[Chris]

Who's in the Air Force. And I have a nine. She'll be 10. And, like, actually by the time this pocket, she used him. So. Yeah.

[Chad Peterman]

You'd skip Berkeley.

[Chris]

Yeah, I said I got 24 to 10. Okay.

[Patrick Kelly]

Okay. All right.

[Chris]

Yeah, it's 24 to 10. Three girls, one boy. But. But point is, they saw us build this business together, you know, because my wife and I are both in the business, and they got to see the hard stuff and hear the hard stuff and. And also the outcome of the hard work. And. And I think that that's the unspoken thing that you're, you know, that your kids will see from. From you, you know, as they're. Especially as they're getting older. So I'm excited to watch the journey. I appreciate you giving us, you know, the time today. I know I had to change the time on you a couple times, I think, or maybe just one time and who knows, the episode. But hopefully you guys have a, you know, have a great Christmas. I think this. Right. Just right before Christmas, right now, after Christmas. I hope you had a great Christmas, everybody. Listen, I will say, I will finish with just this. Not only thank you for your time, but, man, thanks for your service. I can never, you know, I. I have so much respect for anyone in the military, obviously. Like I said, my daughter graduated college and then went to the Air Force, so maybe we should have flipped that a little bit. But she didn't know what she wanted to do, so she went to the Air Force. And. And I respect that.

[Patrick Kelly]

That's a better path. Is she. Is she going in as an officer?

[Chris]

And she's. And she. She's going into intelligence. So right now she's in, like, a full Russian immersion program where she's just speaking Russian, learning Russian. So I didn't, like, hardly ever even talk to her. Honestly. It's like. It's pretty crazy. Pretty intense.

[Patrick Kelly]

Yeah, that's. That's. She'll. She'll have a. A good time.

[Chris]

I mean, it's. It was. This is the first Thanksgiving I didn't get to see her. So it was a little bit weird. But, you know, anyway, point being is, you know, it's you going and serving in the military, I think is exceptional. And, you know, I, my father was in the military as well. I went to college, which was the easier, the easier path. And you went and did two tours in Fallujah, Iraq.

[Patrick Kelly]

I mean, well, so I, I had gotten to college on a wrestling scholarship, and, man, I butchered that thing. I, I, I lost everything so fast and so well that the Marine Corps was a fallback. You know, I became fifth generation on the Kelly side. But I'm glad I did it.

[Chris]

I'm sure you are glad you did it because it probably shaped a lot of who you are today. The discipline alone, you know, is, is, is a big deal. So. Well, listen, I'm excited to, you know, to see you in Arlette at. She's coming with you, right? Toronto X. Yeah. Cool. Excited to see you guys both there. I'm excited for you just to have the experience of it because it'll be a little bit different than you've, you know, you've had before, but, and I excited to watch you, what you do in 2025. So, boys, I appreciate you guys coming on. And Patrick, again, thanks for your time and to all the listeners, listen, this is a great story. Like, this is a great example. There's probably a lot of you that are sitting in that sub 5 million position right now that this should be very encouraging to you. That wasn't like he had something special. It's just that he had a little discipline planet and he, and he wasn't afraid to ask questions and communicate, and he takes the time to listen to the podcast and learn things. So whichever way you want to learn, you know, you don't have to do everything, but you got to do something. No. Zero days.