The Highest ROI Marketing Channel Most Contractors Get Wrong

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Highest ROI Marketing Channel Most Contractors Get Wrong"

To The Point – Home Services VIP Room Podcast
Host: RYNO Strategic Solutions
Episode Date: June 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into one of the most underutilized but high-ROI marketing channels for contractors: Email Marketing. The hosts welcome Zach Garcia (President of Send It Email Marketing) to break down not just why email matters, but how to actually leverage it for tangible sales, even if you’ve tried “blasting out emails” in the past without results. The conversation ranges from KPIs to practical tactics, technical pitfalls, and the real reasons big contractors keep investing in email – with specific examples, strategy breakdowns, and actionable advice.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Why Email Marketing Remains a Massive Opportunity

• Email is a “low-hanging fruit” for revenue: Most contractors have an existing customer list but are missing systematic, targeted email strategies that drive sales.
• Industry heavyweights (A1, Peterman, Iceberg) still invest in targeted email—“Are these guys all wrong? They’re not wasting money if it doesn’t work.” (06:56, Chris)

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The Crucial Email Marketing Metrics & The "Real" Deliverability Challenge

• Deliverability trumps “delivered”—if an email lands in spam, it doesn’t count.

  “If it goes into the spam folder, nobody sees the email anyway. So you got zero shot. Right?”
  — Chris, (07:18)

• Open rate is important (target 20%+), but sales booked is king.
• “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket”—Email should be one of several leads channels. (04:18)

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Booking Jobs: Offers, CTAs, and Why “Call Now” Isn’t Enough

• Context is everything: Most people check email where they can’t make a call.
• Best CTAs:
  • “Book online” > phone call
  • Option to reply to the email (with someone to monitor responses)
• Zach’s challenge:

  “How do I get my clients in the same category as mom so that people open the email because of the name it comes from?”
  — Zach, (08:14)

• Reports of $10,000+ in revenue off a single targeted send to an existing list (Iceberg case study) (09:47).

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Segments & Personalization: Micro-targeting for Service Demand and Capacity

• Use email to fill specific needs, not just blast the whole list.
• Example: Water heater campaign in a market where capacity had to be filled.

  “You're just finding all these little pockets in your list that have $1K to $15K in revenue, and you're just trying to put together content that's going to resonate…”
  — Zach, (12:26)

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Automations and the “Automation Audit” (A1 Use Case Breakdown)

[14:25-17:36]

• Map all customer “moments” where an automated nudge can secure business:
  • Open estimates (sending sequenced follow-ups for 34 days)
  • Cancelled jobs, unsold memberships, upcoming appointments
• Broadcasts by market/need:
  • “Where are you running the risk of sending someone home early? Let’s fill that with an email.”
• Offer psychology: Email must “create desire,” not just announce discounts; e-commerce model applies.

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Timing & Urgency: How to Reactivate Demand

[17:36-21:46]

• What works in a crunch?
  • SMS is fastest, but same-day or “this week” emails (7-8am, Tues-Thurs) work well.
  • “Reply campaigns”: Ultra-simple, personalized emails driving direct replies fill the board quickly.

  “I have yet to see that particular style of email not pull a really good short-term surge of appointments.”
  — Zach, (18:23)

• Longer term: Use email to reduce the number of paid leads you need to buy.

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Offers that Sell: Rebates, Buybacks, Discounts, Bonuses

[23:11-27:34]

• Estimate offers must be irresistible—rebates create instant demand (“get a new system + $2,500 cash”).
• Scarcity (limited slots, deadlines) boosts conversion.
• Bonus stacking: Add value without cutting margin – e.g., free memberships, filter replacements, prize draws.

  “I’d rather start with an offer the business owner is scared of…then dial it back if needed.”
  — Zach, (27:34)

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Technical Pitfalls: Tools, Platforms, and Avoiding Spam

[31:06-36:32]

• “Isn't Chirp/ServiceTitan enough?” Service providers (like Send It) work across platforms; content quality and campaign strategy are more important than the tool itself.
• “From” email address matters:
  • Don’t use generic/SMTP-suffix domains (e.g., stmailio) if you can use your own brand domain—impacts inboxing and trust (34:05-35:53).
• Watch for open rates under 20%—signal for spam or technical setup issues.

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ROI and Guarantees

[38:08-40:41]

• Industry benchmark: Send It offers a 6x ROI guarantee or your money back.

  “I always tell everybody…we guarantee 6x ROI. Not because that's an incredible number, but because we’re confident…”
  — Zach, (40:15)

• Brand reputation influences results: The better the relationship with your list, the better the performance.

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The Power of Consistency and Brand

• Weekly, valuable emails with 30-50% open rates keep the contractor’s brand “top of mind,” reducing “off-the-street” competition from other providers.
• “Job complete is the start of the relationship, not the end of the transaction.”
  — Zach, (42:55)

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Planning, AI and the Realities of Execution

[44:34-47:44]

• Multi-trade businesses must plan offers/campaigns by trade, location, and season; proactive planning is still a work-in-progress for most.
• AI content (ChatGPT, Claude) is only as good as the inputs, often not yet a replacement for expert copy.

  “Some days it’s pretty good, and other days it’s absolute garbage.”
  — Zach, (45:31)

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Pro Tactic: Reduce Paid Search Costs with CRM Marketing

[49:02-51:30]

• Use email to keep repeat customers off Google (where you’d pay for branded clicks).

  “Let's pay to get them once and resell them through email, not keep paying for the same customer over and over.”
  — Zach, (50:54)

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Templates & Resources for Contractors

[53:14-54:59]

• Free offer for listeners:
  Download 20 proven, high-converting email templates at withsendit.com/top-secret

  “No strings attached…20 templated, very entertaining, high-converting email templates.”
  — Zach, (53:14)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Subject Lines and Branding:

  “My quest is, how do I get my clients in the same category as mom so that people open the email because of the name it comes from?”
  — Zach, (08:14)

• On offer construction:

  “If you're just sending: ‘hey, get an estimate,’ you're trying to sell someone on being sold to…”
  — Zach, (23:45)

• Big laugh moment:

  “‘Just the tip. The tip of the iceberg.’ I mean, I’m talking his promo, his commercial, billboard, all of it.”
  — Chris (41:16), on Iceberg’s cheeky branding.

• ROI guarantee:

  “We guarantee 6x ROI. Not because that's an incredible number, but because we’re confident… you make at least this much back or we give your money back.”
  — Zach, (40:15)

• On email’s brand play:

  “Job complete is the start of the relationship, not the end of the transaction.”
  — Zach, (42:55)

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Important Timestamps

• 07:18 — Why spam = zero shot at revenue
• 08:14 — “How do I get my clients in the same category as mom?”
• 09:47 — Iceberg Home Services: $9,400 from one targeted email
• 14:25 — Automations audit: opportunities with A1’s setup
• 18:23 — Simple “reply campaign” scripts for immediate-booking surges
• 23:11 — 4 models that always convert: rebate, buyback, discount, urgency
• 27:34 — Bonus stacking: Offering more without discounts
• 34:05 — How your sender domain kills (or boosts) performance
• 38:08 — ROI guarantee and why brand matters for email performance
• 41:16 — “Just the tip.” The power (and risk) of bold branding
• 42:55 — The value of post-sale communication
• 50:54 — Using email to avoid paying for your customer twice
• 53:14 — Free swipe file offer: 20 high-performing email templates

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Key Takeaways

• Contractors can—and should—turn email into a consistent, scalable source of booked jobs and ROI, not just an “afterthought.”
• Success depends on list quality, technical setup, strategic offer creation, and aligning campaign content with the customer’s context and needs.
• Data analysis, creative testing, and regular communication compound results over time.
• Free, field-tested templates are available to help you start immediately—even if your list is small or you’re not a pro writer.

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Action Steps for Listeners

1. Audit Your Tools & Setup:
   Check your sender domain, open rates, and automation triggers—are you really landing in inboxes?

2. Get the Free Templates:
   Download the swipe file at withsendit.com/top-secret for proven campaign ideas.

3. Think Strategy, Not Just “Blasts”:
   Start segmenting your list, writing compelling offers, and measuring sales—not just opens.

4. Don’t Be Afraid to Get Help:
   A pro service can help with technical, creative, and strategic heavy lifting so you focus on the results.

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Final Thoughts

While email marketing may not sound as flashy as paid search or TikTok ads, it remains a powerful, cost-effective channel—when done right. Whether you have 500 or 50,000 contacts, the opportunity is there to turn your database into booked jobs, not just “touches.” As the hosts say: “Don’t talk about it, be about it.”

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For More:
Access the free resource: withsendit.com/top-secret
Full show notes available in your podcast app.

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Transcript

[A]

What's the password?

[B]

Don't talk about it, be about it.

[A]

Welcome in to the to the Point Home Services VIP room, where we invite

[B]

you, the listeners in to hang alongside

[A]

some of the biggest, baddest and most successful VIPs of the home Services industries. You never know which surprise guest will show up next. So let's get this party started.

[B]

Hey, what's up everybody? It's your boy, Chris, along with my two beautiful, handsome co hosts, Mr. Chatty P and Ag. Hi, boys. What's up?

[C]

What's going on?

[B]

See, I'm loving on this microphone.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Yeah, it's because, you know, it just came off my little 20 year vow renewal and I was singing a little journey, just getting into it. So even though I might have throat cancer, it doesn't mean I can't let it rip for another few, another month.

[A]

You know, people know and hear, but they do here for you, praying for you, my man. And had a wonderful weekend with you last weekend. I was happy to be there with you guys and it was a lot of fun.

[B]

Yeah, we, you know, we put it out there too. I'm actually kind of. I just wanted to be like, get it out and be done. Right. And I figured with the podcast, like I was telling, telling you guys, I've not, I've been transparent about everything on this podcast, so, like, why stop now? So I was like, it, let's just let it rip. And you know how it is. It's like you appreciate getting all the messages and things like that. You know, it's the same thing over and over again. You know, everybody means well, but it does kind of get old responding to everything. So I was like, if we just put it out in bulk, let everybody know, we know that they care and we know that they'll be there for us. Like, you know, don't try not to be insensitive. But I'm in good spirits. You guys know that. Like, listen, it's. I'm super optimistic about everything. A 90 win rate's a pretty good. I'm not a mathematician, but 90% odds are pretty damn good. So I'll take the odds and then like, okay, so we'll move on from that. It's, it's, you know, it is what it is. Could be worse. Listen today for the listeners before I jump into our idiom that I think is going to play very, very well into today. And I introduce our guest, you know, talking about just things, you know, and it's July. This podcast, I think is airing in July, maybe actually it might be airing in June. So at the end of this, I can't remember what the hell which, which day it is, but I think it might be in the June. Point is, is that we're just trying to find, you know, things that can be helpful. Like any which way we can try and help find, get you guys a lead. Obviously when it's hot and you know, the, and you start to get some heat, like demand really picks up, it's easy, but there's going to be a dip come along the way. Here's, you know, in July or August or is one of these, you know, next couple of months and it's like, what other levers can you pull and maybe what's a lever that you knew you could pull but you just don't understand how to actually really do it to where it's effective or that it seems effective. And I think that the topic of email marketing is one of them. And if you are listening right now and you're like email marketing, oh, click and you hang up, I guarantee you're going to miss something. That's for sure going to help you. Because listen, the boys on here, you know, who have massive businesses, $100 million businesses, they leverage email marketing, right, Tommy, you know, a one they leverages. Are these guys all wrong? It just, it must, you know, they're not wasting time on it, spending money on it if it doesn't work and it's not even that expensive. So I thought rather than just talk about email marketing as a, as a whole, let's get into like some of the details. So that way, if you're listening right now, since we have our subject matter expert, Zach Garcia, president of Send It Email Marketing, co founder, also my partner in the business and a sponsor here on the podcast, we said, dude, you've been working with a lot of these players a long time. I want you to share some specifics. So that way when you hop off here today, you can send this episode over to whomever and they can listen to and get a few tactics to use moving forward on us, courtesy of your boys at TTP here in the Home Services VIP room. So first off, Zach, welcome to the VIP room, buddy.

[D]

Dude, thank you. This is awesome. I'm, I'm happy to be here.

[B]

No, that I'm happy to be here. Get your do. Jumping jack. You said.

[D]

I tried. I was doing jumping jacks to warm up and you guys made fun of me. So I figured I gotta bring it down a couple notches. Dude, I can't believe I'M on the home surface's VIP room. This is freaking amazing.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

There you go. Jesus.

[D]

Bulging out of my forehead.

[B]

I'm so happy to be here. Okay, all right, let's keep going because, hey, by the way, I wanted to do an idiom on an idiom, a metaphor, whatever the hell you want to call it. I still don't know exactly where I land with it. I think it's actually an idiom, but there's a metaphor that you can use called don't put all your eggs in one basket. I felt like this is a pretty good segue into this because you have a lot of different things that you can do to help bring in leads for your business, but you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. So, you know, the metaphor for it really, really is around risk management. Right. Like, that is the purpose of that particular idiom. But do you guys know where the. I can't wait. I want you guys to. And don't pull up aura from Service Titan and chat GPT while we're talking. What do you think the earliest. The origination of that. Where do you think that came from? But don't put all your eggs in one basket. I'm be curious to hear what you guys think. I don't overthink it.

[A]

It's like an old farmer thing or something. Carrying all your eggs, and then they fell over and they fell out of the basket, and they all broke and you didn't have any eggs to eat.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Feels like it goes that far back. Like. I don't know. I don't. I don't know this. I. Obviously, I'm wearing the saying and understand the concept, but I don't. I have no idea. But it feels like it has to be something like that.

[B]

What do you think, Chad?

[C]

I would agree with that. I can't think of anything else.

[B]

Yeah, the only thing. The only thing I thought of was, like, Easter egg baskets. But if you think about the origination of Easter egg baskets, which I didn't look into, and I think it all still comes back to what you guys just said. This is not complicated. This is like early, early, early days, right, where the farmers had their little woven, you know, baskets, and they put all, you know, they didn't want to put all their eggs in one basket. You drop one, they're all gone, and there goes your money, because that's how they would survive. But the first time it was ever actually referenced that made it a thing was in 1605. So this stuff was obviously happening well before then. 1605, in this book that you guys probably read, I'm sure called Don Quixote. 1605 novel. It was, that was the first time it was ever actually referenced and it became like a saying. So there you go. Now everybody's much smarter. So hey, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Okay? One of the eggs though is, is called email marketing. So what I want to do real quick is, you know, I don't, I want to just talk about this in a very tangible way. So, so don't give us the bullshit high level PC answers like let's dig in, Zach. Like let's give some real things that these guys can, can take away. But the things that first come to mind for me and like whenever, you know, whenever I had you got me interested in email marketing, the things that I were asking is like, hey, what matters the most? What should these guys be paying attention to? To me, the simple thing is, number one, if it goes into the spam folder, nobody sees the email anyway. So you got zero shot. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it can be reported that it was delivered. I use air quotes delivered, which I think can be deceiving.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

So if it's delivered to a spam folder, to me it's like not. It doesn't count. It has to actually land into an inbox where human being can see it. Step one, step two is they got to want to even open it. So what is the, you know, the things I learned from you or like what is, you know, the subject line need to say to get them to take step two. So there's like this whole process to this that really matters needs to get dialed in. People say, I'm just going to use chat GPT for it. I'm just going to use cloud for it. So maybe let's just start at what is it that these guys need that these guys or gals, sorry, need to pay? What. What are the KPIs that matter the most to the contractor right off the bat so that way we know what the target is.

[D]

Yeah, let me, let me have you think of it like this. I'll ask you guys this question. If your mom sent you an email today and it says her name in the from from line.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Your mom sent it, but she forgets to put a subject. So it's just in parentheses, no subject. If your mom sent you an email, would you open that email for me? The answer is yes. I'm like, oh, mom's trying to. Mom's trying to Send me something, right? Like what is, what is mom sending me? Whether it's a text or an email, you would open it regardless of what the subject line says. So my quest is, how do I get my clients in the same category as mom so that people open the email because of the name it comes from? And then from there, how do I get people to act and take advantage of an offer? So the most important metric is, number one, sales, right? How many, specifically, how many jobs did you book from an email? And they could book through a phone number, but a phone number is not the number one call to action you should have in an email. A phone number is the number one call to action you should have on Google Search. But an email, the number one call to action needs to be book online. Because think about it, the context in which people are checking their email. Most people are not in a very good position to make a call, right? They are procrastinating work. They are in line at the grocery store. They are on the toilet, for heaven's sakes, checking their email. So if your only call to action is call now, you're not going to get the response. You could if your primary call to action was book online or give us a call or reply to this email. And then you got to have somebody who's manning the replies. Those are the three main things to get people to book jobs. I was just chatting this morning with Iceberg home Services, one of our clients.

[B]

Oh, Mike. Yeah, we all know Mike.

[D]

I was just chatting with them this morning and they're like, yeah, we had our last campaign. We had 20 booked jobs and 9,400 in revenue. Now, at first you think that's not crazy, but then you look at the conditions, right? Number one, those are. Those are leads you already have. That's 9,400 in revenue that was just sitting there waiting to be tapped into on a relatively small send because it was a very specific targeted email list. Number two, most of those came as a result of the phone call because they didn't have book online set up yet. So imagine if we had added Book online to that. I'm probably thinking we would have done 15 to 20 on that email instead of 9,400. And on top of that, think of the ROI. Pretty much everybody listening to this is already paying to do email marketing. Whether you've got a service titan marketing pro set up or a mailchimp account or constant contact, you already have the capabilities and you already have the leads. All that's left is write an email that they want to read with an offer that they want to buy. And, you know, you're 10 minutes away from an extra 10k in revenue and 20 book jobs.

[E]

So the way I look at this

[B]

is like, that's an example. We all know Mike Bruner. Well, I've grown a great business down in Florida with iceberg is. I kind of explained it like a jigsaw puzzle. Like, there's obviously things that can bring in significantly more revenue for all these guys. Significantly more. Right. Like, this is a small piece of the jigsaw puzzle, but it is a piece, and it all adds up. But it's also a very inexpensive, you know, inexpensive investment to. To get, you know, generate revenue. And then the question that I feel like always comes up is how consistent is it? Like, how many times can you email the same email list and it's, you know, business.

[D]

Well, the thing about it that's crazy to me with, like, using the iceberg thing, for example. Okay. Is we're looking at the situation. We're going, okay, where do you need jobs right now? Water heaters. Okay, great. Who on your list qualifies for a water heater right now? Well, obviously not people who just bought one. Okay. Obviously not these people in this category. So we. We find a list, we find an offer, we put together the content, and we send. And it's like, boom, there's 10K. All right, what's another one? There's water heaters. Let's do furnaces now, or let's do air conditioners or let's do IQ products. So for each of these service lines that you have in your business, there's a segment of people on your list who are ready to buy each of those things. It's just identifying which people on the list that is what content is going to resonate the most in sending. So that was again, that was just a water heater email. The next one we're doing is a buyback email on. You can apply up to $1,000 of past service purchases toward a new system. And then the one after that is a $5,000 buyback offer for you can apply up to $5,000 of past purchases over the past 12 months if you've had a ton of work done. Same thing with garage doors, same thing with plumbing. Brody Pannell. We had this conversation with them yesterday on a pretty small send. They did about 16k on a very targeted, like AC tune up offer. So this is just the game we play. We meet with the client, we say, what offers do you need to Sell. Where are you short right now? Who on your list qualifies for this offer? All right, let's send an email. And just like, boom, 10k, boom 5k, boom 14k, you're just finding all these little pockets in your list that have 1 to 10 to $15,000 in revenue at any given moment. And you're just trying to put together content that's going to resonate and get people to say, yeah, I'm in. I'm ready to take action.

[B]

And maybe, maybe real quick, just explain, like, Tom, I think, like, I think Tommy's got one of the most, you know, elaborate setups for, for marketing. You know, these guys have obviously, like, lots of marketing lead sources. But maybe talk about the way that he's leveraging it one, because I think it's pretty unique because there's some markets he has capacity issues. You can't even run it there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when you talk about, like, you know, I know when you were texting me the other day about Brody Pinel, which is Lawrence Castillo over in Southern California, if you guys don't. I think you guys all know who Lawrence is. When you say, you know, 10 grand, to me, that doesn't sound like a lot, right? Like, I'm like, oh, that's not that big of a deal. But the reality is you weren't hitting his whole list. It was just a segment for water heaters that he needed in a market where he needed capacity filled. Like, so there's these little bitty things you can drill into that really matter. Now you're hitting the whole list. Hopefully you're seeing a much larger return and you are. So I just wanted to be clear for our listeners, like, we're talking like, taking a piece of it in a market where he needs capacity filled for a particular service line. So, in fact, you can drill down that much. But maybe just talk a little bit about Tom, about Tommy, set up on how you're working with the A1 team because obviously it's massive and across so many states and, you know, and different, you know, different target.

[D]

The first thing I did there was, I call it an automation audit. So I basically go in and I say at any given moment, there's six things that are happening with your customers, Right. Either they have an open estimate that needs to get followed up on, or they cancel the job that you want to get back on the schedule, or they finished a job but they didn't sign up for your membership, or they have a job scheduled and you want to get them to look at financing or membership options before the visit. So these are moments where you can automate messages that get the customer to take action. So I looked at A1's email marketing setup to find where are the opportunities in this automation audit. And we found five of them. It was like, okay, there are five opportunities here to send messages to your customers at key moments to get them to take action. One was, believe it or not, open estimates. Like imagine how many open estimates A1 has. So we built email automations to go out for their different brands. For anytime somebody has an open estimate that didn't close when the technician visited, they get hit with a 34 day sequence of emails, hitting all the major selling points, trying to get them to take action. And then we set up a few more of those. Then we moved to broadcast. They have 24 locations across a one Don's Wellborn garage door and garage door doctor. Different markets with different needs. So basically we meet and I say, where are the needs? Where are your guys not as busy as they should be. Where are you running the risk of having to send somebody home early? Okay, let's put together an offer Again, an offer is something we'll talk about more on this episode, I'm sure, but let's put together an offer that's going to create some desire. Because the way that email is different from Google search is with Google, you really don't have to be that creative. The demand is already there. People are searching for the help. You have to make sure you show up in the map pack. You have to make sure that you're one of the top picks. When they search with email. You're trying to create the desire. You're not tapping into a desire that's already there. So the way you position your offers can't just be get an $89 tune up or get $100 off or get $400 off. You've got to create something that makes people go, oh, this is, this is really interesting. Like, I didn't think I needed this today, but I'm not sure the next time I'm gonna see an offer like this so I should take advantage of it. It's why e commerce companies win with email so much. It's why consulting companies with email so much. You guys know what's coming up on June 23rd, don't you? One week from today, it's Amazon Prime Day and Amazon is about to rake in billions of dollars sending emails with a buy now button on them because they know how to put together an offer that's Going to make every suburban housewife and husband check their email and be like, I definitely need this useless trinket. And they're going to. And because the offer is so good and it's right there in front of them and the call to action is easy, you have this perfect storm and there's a deadline on it, right. Prime day ends on the 26th. Most home service companies, when they put out an offer, they just let it live forever on their website. So customers take it less and less seriously as time passes. Because I like to procrastinate this, right? I could come back to this anytime I want.

[C]

Zach, what do you see? So we, I'll tell you how we kind of think about email and kind of reactivating the customer base. But like how much urgency, like should I be like if I'm not full tomorrow and it's, you know, 3:00 in the afternoon, sending out an email to fill up tomorrow to me seems a little difficult. But if it's, if it's looking at, you know, next Tuesday, kind of next week, is that better? Does that take away from the urgency? Like how should, how should people be thinking about like the effectiveness of email and when. Cause we're in such a demand driven business, it's like, shit, I don't got enough leads, I need to do something. Like is that effective? Like how should people be thinking about that?

[D]

Yeah, I still think, personally I still think that for like the immediate, immediate term, like hey, we need jobs. Like right this second I've got guys who are sitting on their hands doing nothing. I think SMS is still awesome there. Email I find is like a same day or that week effectiveness. So if I know I need jobs tomorrow, scheduling an email for 7am is when I have historically found the best response first thing in the morning when people are getting up, checking their messages, getting ready for the day. I get my best open rates and my best response rates at like 7, 8am in the morning. Tuesday through Thursday on emails, Mondays and Fridays I try to never send emails because people are checked out by Friday. Monday everybody's just putting out fires. But Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday also because office, the office folks are like responding to a lot of these messages and they want to know that they can expect to keep an eye on the inbox for replies. But when you're like in a strapped situation like that, the best thing to do is run a reply call. A reply campaign is what I call it, where I basically send an email that says, hey John, it's Chad with Peterman Brothers. We've got some availability on our calendar this afternoon and tomorrow for AC tune ups. Would you like to claim one of these spots? Reply and let me know asap. That's it, that's the whole email. You send that out. And I have yet to, in the three years that I've been doing this, I have yet to see that particular style of email not pull a really good short term surge of appointments. We just did this last week for Barty Home Services. We send out the reply campaign and we send it again 7 or 8am by like 2 or 3pm in the afternoon. Jen at Barty was like, dude, that was awesome. Like we just, we just got, we just got an awesome surge of appointments there from that one quick win email which again went out first thing in the day and was able to help with that day and the next few days following it. So that's what I do in a short term situation like that.

[C]

Yeah. And I think it reason I asked the question was we think about it much the same way. If you run a different campaign, you can do that short term stuff. But the way that I kind of framed it in my mind that may be helpful to listeners is like we look at next week's demand. Okay, so we need just an example out there. We need a hundred calls. Well, the goal is, is to use all the tactics to reactivate the customer base. So today for next week, so that all of a sudden the demand that my paid team has to like go get goes from 100 to like maybe they only have to go buy 70 leads because we filled it, we filled them up with all of these, you know, other appointments. And I think it's important too that like while getting maintenance visits is great, it's like, how do we put an offer together to make this a sales estimate? Like I want people to sign up for a sales estimate like, oh, I'm interested in that product. Like I want to come out and give you a quote as opposed to like hey, we want to schedule your maintenance visit. We found to be a little bit more effective on that side of things. And then the hope is, is that it overall reduces our marketing costs because our paid team only has to go buy 70 instead of 100 leads because we get there and the weather's not on our side or you know, whatever thing you want to think about. But that's kind of how we think about it.

[D]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

Let's sit on that for just a second. I think that's really important to talk about because you have a whole Strategy around rehash, right. On. On pending. On like anything that's. Pending proposal, pending leads or sales leads. Isn't that right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So you can be unique, like. Like, you know, but you write campaign specifically for that in a specific, you know, market. So I know that that's like one of the things that we were talking about with Tommy's team originally was you just. In some markets, they couldn't. Like, they just didn't have the capacity to do it, whether we wanted to run them or not. But to me, that's always the holy grail, right? Is to get the sale, like the actual. The new. The new installation. That's. That's the Holy grail. So you. We have specific camp. First off, I didn't even know that Barney finally came on. These guys came on board. That's great news. We all know Adam. It's been a while since we've seen Adam around. He's got a great business down in. Down in Atlanta.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He's like 25, 30 million, something like that. And I know he's a big. He's a big, like, drain cleaning guy, too. Like, they do a bunch of drain, drain leads, sewer line leads. But you. We have those set up in the way that these guys think about their. Their business. Maintenance, service, installation, like all these things. Right. So, like, was there, like, some. What are the tiers that we. That we. Yeah, I say we. That, you know, that you use with the ascended team when you're thinking about these campaigns, and I imagine everybody asks you about sales first. Like, we want sales leads.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. I always start with, what are your goals? And then I don't have like a. All right, first we're going to do sales. Then we're going to do service for this period of time, and then we're going to do maintenance for this period of time. I always start with their goals and work backwards. So in the case of sales, to Chad's point, right, the offer has to be really good. If you just go and send an email that says, hey, get an estimate. What you don't. What a lot of people don't realize you're doing is you're trying to get. You're trying to sell someone on being sold to.

[A]

Right.

[D]

That's ultimately what an estimate is. You're trying to sell someone on being sold a new system. So my brain is always thinking, how can I make this more captivating, more compelling so that somebody who's not thinking about it will do it? One way is Rebates. Rebates are an awesome way to generate sales interest immediately. If you or your manufacturer that you sell equipment from or your local government are offering rebates. Rebate campaigns work awesome over email because there's limited availability, right? Money's going to run out or time's going to run out and it's a genuinely good offer. Like get a new system on financing plus $2,500 cash. That's a good offer. Rebates work great. So if you're needing sales estimates, figure out how you can put together a rebate campaign. Number two is buybacks. I know we're doing one of these for you right now, Aaron. Like buybacks are awesome. Every time somebody says, hey, we have a buyback offer, I'm like, perfect, what's the deadline? Let's give somebody a deadline to act by because this is a genuinely good offer. Third is good old fashioned discounts. And fourth is, to Chad's point, earlier as well, limited availability. So if people, if you tell someone we want to give you an estimate for new system, they're like, I don't need one right now. But if you say we have 10 spots left on our calendar this week to give new estimates for systems, now all of a sudden there's like, oh shoot, there's a, I gotta take action on this or I'm gonna miss one of these 10 spots. And then after sales then I turn to how confident are you that your technicians can turn over a sales estimate, right? Like how confident are you someone who's doing a tune up can find an opportunity. There's some of our clients are like, oh yeah, dude, our guys are trained to do that really well, others not as much. And that's when I'll turn to like service and maintenance offers. How many tune ups can we get on the calendar? Sometimes it's just a pure volume play, depending on the contractor we're working with and what their goals are. But yeah, most of the time it's coming up with one of those four different angles I just mentioned the rebate, the buyback, the discount, or the urgency play to try and get a sales estimate on the calendar.

[A]

When I think about these two, it's like, so a couple of things. One I do think leads. Another one is you're trying to understand slow down, shoulder season areas, whatever to say, hey, how can we keep flow going? Try to look. So I know for us as we, as we move forward, like just overall CRM marketing is an area that we just have not really historically done great, right We've been fortunate. Our marketing, we train a lot of leads. We do follow up big massive email campaigns, not super targeted. Been improving that over time. And obviously we're going with you guys to work on some of this stuff too and have been. But you know, I think one of the things that most people might not be able to do is similar. What you just said is like, well, if you go, well, what's your goals? A lot of people aren't 100% sure. And then also I would say at times for us it's like, I don't really know what offer is going to move people. Like, so I went through that. It's like, so is there like a model? Like, are you using something like, you know, the $100 million, $100 million model kind of concept? Like, what's a template for somebody to say, hey, let me kind of think about how I could stack a thing? Because it's easy to say there's a discount. Like, but do you know what the discount is? Do you know what the impact of this is? Do you know if it moves the middle enough, how deep should you go? You know, what are you doing to your margin on this? Is it worth it? You know, so I mean, there's all these other equations, I think, and I think sometimes people just kind of do things to do it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, well, what were you trying to hope to get here? And then like, well, then what? We sold these systems, but then. Or whatever. And then they're like, but we didn't make any money doing it because we had these overly discounted models. So how are you, when are you thinking about that? How do you walk through somebody that. To really be prepared? Or is there. It sounds like you laid out your four models there, but like, is there a template to get people kind of thinking? Because I think that's the hardest part sometimes is like if I'm not historically just a great sales person or creative person as an operator, which there's plenty of operators that lean one way or another way. There's no wrong way, it's just a way. What do you do for that?

[D]

Dude, that's, that's a great question. First of all, on rebates, obviously they're, they're more self explanatory. Right. Because contractors aren't generally coming up with the rebates or taking a huge hit.

[E]

Right.

[D]

It's generally the manufacturer of the local government. So those ones, it's like, let's see if there's something available. Right. Last week I was on the phone with a client and they didn't even realize that in Dallas, where they're located, there was a rebate going on right now. So it's like, sweet. Well, let's tap into that. There's an offer sitting right there that your local government put together for you that we can now use to generate demand for you, for you. So there's that. That's how I approach that one. Buybacks are definitely a math thing. Right. So I will often what I'll do is kind of give examples of what other companies are doing and then I'll put it together in something that our client, our marketing manager or the owner can take to whoever like the CFO or financial controller is to actually do the numbers and see if it's feasible. We just had a campaign that we finished for a client about two weeks ago where we put together a proposed offer and then they had to spend a couple days reviewing it internally to make sure the math worked right. And I don't unfortunately have access to all the math for our clients, but somebody on their side does. And so involving them is a key part of this process for us on our team. We try to focus more on the offer quality and the creative because the way I look at it is I would rather put together something I know is going to be irresistible and then have to dial it back based on the numbers, then start too small and not get a good response. You know, I, I'd rather start with an offer that the business owner is going to be a little bit afraid of because that tells me, all right, it is a good offer. People will definitely like that. Now let's do the math and see where we need to make adjustments or dial back on things. And we don't, we don't ever. I'm never telling people like $1000 off or do 10% off. Like, I'm not like preaching discounts, but I am trying to get people to think of ways to make it enticing. Another way to do that without discounting that I teach a lot of our clients is bonus stacks. So we don't have to take anything away. What can we give though? What can we add that comes at little to no marginal cost to you in order to make this more intriguing? You know, for example, when we're selling a new system or trying to get an estimate, how, how long can we incorporate them into our membership plan without losing money? And maybe not without losing money, but without it costing us anything extra, can we add on a one year membership, two Filter replacements. Entry to win a free trip to Disneyland. Potentially a new thermostat or in the case of garage doors, a new opener, a new clicker. I mean like, what things can we add that don't cost that much additional to you if you sell it at the right price point, you know, and that's a, that's a comforting thing for a lot of contractors as well that are scared of the discount math. They're like, dude, we don't want to be the discount provider. Like, that's cool, let's add them, let's create bonuses, let's find. And sometimes it's the chance to win. Like, I know a lot of companies who will do. They'll put together an offer. If you get an estimate for a new air conditioner, you will be entered to win a yeti cooler or you will be entered to win a new pellet grill or you'll be entered to win, you know, AirPods for the whole family or a trip somewhere, a cruise. So these are things that like, are a lot easier to justify from a math standpoint than discounts. A lot of time and that's typically the process I go through with our clients and coming up with these types of offers.

[B]

Quick one, real quick. A quick one, real quick.

[E]

You.

[B]

When I think about the objections, you know that I've, that I've heard, it's like Chad and Aaron, our customers, Tommy or these guys are my friends, but their customers will send it. But so is like companies like Chirp and like, because I'm thinking people would say like, no, no, I already, I have Chirp and it does these things for me. I don't. Why, why do I need to do this too? It already does SMS or he does email marketing. Like maybe talk about that because I guarantee you people are. Somebody's thinking that same thing right now. On like, I don't. I already got all this stuff in place and I didn't, I didn't really understand the difference either until I sit and listen to you speak to, you know, a group of, of contractors. A meeting we had maybe just talk about that particular objection real quick. So that way it's a little bit clearer.

[D]

Yeah, we, we are not a software company. We are a, we are a service provider. So we work with whatever tech our clients have. If you're on Trip, awesome. We, I love trip. The trip guys at Trip are awesome. You're on service type marketing, pro mailchimp, constant contact hatch, you name it. I, I am platform agnostic. I like to say I don't care what you're using. My, my thing is what are you doing with it? Are you utilizing it properly? Are you leveraging the automation capabilities you have in Marketing Pro to touch base with customers, who cancel a job, who start your book online form but don't finish it, who get an open estimate but don't close, who sign up for a job but don't get your membership? Like are you utilizing those capabilities? If you're in another platform you might have messages going out. Are they converting? You know, are they resonating with people? Like in the age of AI content, do you realize how crappy most companies content is? Most companies are sending out stuff and as soon as somebody sees a little em dash or a little it's not X, it's Y, they tune out because they're like oh this was, you know, this was written by ChatGPT or something. That's my, that's our focus is great. You have tools in place to send messages now what is the content of those? Is the offer good? Is the content, does it resonate with people? Like does it make them laugh, make them smile, add something to their day whether they bought from you or not, that's really where we live. Is that the creative strategy and the actual implementation of these tools that they already have?

[B]

Hey, and also explain the importance of the from email and with Service Titan specifically because I know you say you're platform agnostic but I know you have a prioritization that you prefer and it's based on performance like performance which I think we all care about is number one. But so many of the listeners being on Service Titan there's some nuances to it that make it not perform as well as other as others. Right. But the problem is is that everybody lives in service time, right? So like we have some things to figure out and how can we API out of it. But, but let's talk about Service Titan specifically. Maybe because you were explaining hey the email that goes out says or the from email is which is a, which can be a deterrent like maybe talk through all that. So I don't it up.

[D]

So when you, if I send you a personal email today Chris, it'll say from zgarside with send it.com it'll come from our domain which is with send it.com for most companies if you send an email from Service Titan Marketing Pro, look at where the email comes from. Send it to yourself because what you will see is it's, it's probably going to say something like info at with sendit stmailio so there's like a service type mail string at the end of it. Now, I gotta. Sometimes that is not a problem. Chad, your company is an example where the ST mail domain was actually just fine. There wasn't anything wrong with it at all. And when we went down the path of potentially switching to making it come from your domain, that proved to not be necessary. So sometimes it's not a problem. But if you do have a problem where your open rates are like 5 to 10%, no one's opening your emails, no one's responding, it might be a good idea to say let's stop sending from the ST mail domain and let's make it our own domain. Because you can land in the inbox better oftentimes if you do that than if you continue to send from the platform one. The reason that is is because you're not the only one using the platform 1. You're being affected by what other people on the platform do. If somebody else sends an email that gets marked as spam by 100 people, that affects your ability to send good emails that land in the inbox too. So that's a really technical discussion. But if email is not working for a contractor or somebody's listening to this, thinking, yeah, we've tried email, it doesn't work. One thing to consider is look at that little domain that your email is coming from. That might be the problem.

[B]

It's a little thing, but it's a thing.

[D]

It's a little thing, but it's a. Some of our clients want to change it too, because they just want the branding. Right? Like they want it to come from.

[A]

We end up changing because we wanted the.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

To come. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We changed it to ego.

[B]

Hey, dude, what is it? What is a. Let's talk about some of these metrics real quick. You mentioned open rate. Assuming that you have an idea in mind, like Chad's worked and Aaron, like these two guys have two completely different approaches. What's the open rate that you target? Like that you say, if it's not this, it's not good enough. And yeah, let's just start there. What, what is that?

[D]

My, my opinion on this is, has like evolved over the years. I used to be a die hard, like 30 to 50% open rate guy and I still strive for like 30 to 50% on all our campaigns. Now I am, I am much more sales first than open rate first. You know, open rate was something I was big on because deliverability. I was like, if we're going to Spam, nothing else matters. But now I'm okay with like 20% is my, like, if we're 20 or more and sales are happening, I'm good with it. You know, below 20%, my, my red flag starts to go up. Like, we might have a spam issue here because it's never made sense to me why in home services, when you're emailing your past customers and people are like, yeah, we get a 12% open rate, it's awesome. I go, you think that's normal for 88% of your past customers to ignore you? That just never seemed right to me that people who let you into their home, who you did service for would see your name and just like completely ignore it or delete it on site. So below 20, my red flags start to go up. I'm like, we might have an issue here with deliverability, but 20 and above, if there are sales happening, that's where, that's my happy place. That's where I'm, that's where I know we're doing a good job.

[B]

Yeah, that was my biggest pushback initially. When you, when you and I first met and you're like, I'm getting 30, 40, 50 open rates, what it mean made me think, think of, I was like, oh, it's just like trying to get somebody in your website. It actually wasn't complicated to get somebody on your site. But did they actually buy something?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, and can you do it consistently? Because I don't see how you do that consistently. And, and really, again, like I said, where we started is what everybody cares about the most.

[E]

Sales.

[B]

Like that is the number one, that is the number one goal. So I think everybody here is okay if you're hitting the 20, 15, 20% open rate. But it's mostly sales. Ain't nobody complaining, especially because it's a fifteen hundred dollar a month service, so it's super cheap. But maybe, and then, and then you and I talk about this quite a bit on the thing I've always wanted to do was give guarantees because everybody loves a guarantee. Put your money where your mouth is. And I know that we give a, we give a, an ROI guarantee or their money back. And that's us just saying, yeah, let us, you know, give us a couple months and we'll show you what we can do. And if it doesn't hit a 6x, is that where we're landed? I'm nowhere we're at right now, which isn't some huge number. And obviously most of our customers do significantly more than that. But it's something where we can able to give somebody their, their money back. But for us this is a, you know, this isn't, there's a consistency to this that really matters. And I think what proves it out is before I ever approached Aaron or Chad or Tommy or any of my friends, you know, when, when I bought the original company, your original company, in May of last year, we didn't bring you, I mean these guys didn't come on board till this year. So we're like, we may. I. I wanted to watch it work for months and months and months and months and see how, how things played out before we actually brought in my friends. So you have proven that it can consistently produce month over month over month, regardless of market. Obviously if you have multi trade makes it a little bit easier, but you have like, you know, you have some of these, you know, guarantees in place because we're that confident that you're going to produce. But it's based on. You said three years of doing this. Like you were at Power selling Pros, I think for like eight years or something like that, you know, so you kind of learned the game a little bit, spun out, did your own thing. When I bought your original company, I rolled it into Prolific to the branding agency I bought. Then I had the founder of Prolific find me out of that because I didn't want anything to do with brand anymore, moved on from it, made send it its own email marketing company. But the only reason I did it was because I believed in you, because I watched what your results were over time and at scale. So you made me a believer. Right. So that was number one. That's what gave me the confidence to give an ROI guarantee. But is it 6x? Is that what we're still offering?

[D]

Yeah, that's it right now. And it's. Yeah. Again, it's not like I always tell everybody on our, on our calls, I'm like, we guarantee 6x ROI. Not because that's like an incredible number, but because we gotta, we, we're confident enough in our approach, we're willing to say, hey, we may, we guarantee you'll make at least this much back or we give your money back. You know, because I can't control everything, Right. I can't control your list size, I can't control if your list likes you.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Like I've, I've definitely gone into some businesses where like I'll run the same campaign for two different companies. One company will kill it and the other company, it's a lot of angry replies. And unsubscribes and spam complaints. And I go, what's the difference? And the difference is the brand. It's the reputation that company had with the customers in the first place.

[B]

Oh, hey, hey. You know what that just made me think of guys. You guys want to know what Bruner uses for his hook? You guys, you guys know like, Michael Bruner is iceberg down in Florida. When I saw his email marketing campaign, do you guys know what he uses for his hook?

[D]

Don't do it.

[A]

I can't. What does he use?

[B]

Just the tip. The tip of the iceberg. I mean, I'm talking his promo, his commercial, billboard, all of it. Just the tip. I was like, okay, Mike. He's like, he's just pushing the envelope. It works really well for him though.

[D]

The first time I logged in, it was looking at their past emails. I was like, just the tip. The name of the newsletter is all we're doing here. I will say one other thing though, in defense of the like, that brings up the point of like the branding play of email. I don't want to say that he opened high open rates are like, I never strive for them because there is something to be said for the brand awareness. Like there are some companies, especially when they have very few service offerings, getting 30 to 50% open rate once a week for a year makes it much less likely that customer is going to call somebody else. You know, whether the ROI on any one email was high or not, there is a lot of value to just like them. Seeing your name with value in their inbox on a regular basis. There's tremendous value to that too. And we do have clients who like, that's why they do it. They've, they've been doing it for years because they just love that people love the content that is building their brand and creating such great awareness. So even though sales is number one, there's also a lot of value to just like top of mind awareness that you build from being a consistent force in someone's life. And I think consistency, whether you're sold on it as a sales tool or not, and you don't think it's going to help you fill your schedule. I do think it's silly to be like, yeah, we're just going to ignore all our customers. Like, job complete is job complete and that's it. I say no. Job complete is the start of the relationship, not the end of the transaction. You should continue to communicate with your people regardless of what you want to get out of it. On Any given email.

[E]

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[B]

I know that you we leverage you for Redbird roofing as well. We've had some great success with it. Now I'm thinking multi like multi trade. Like all these guys have multi trade. And by the way Aaron had like just recently like what your 4 like 4 record days or some like that. He's in he's air conditioning business baby. So congrats on that. Aggressive. These guys are all multi trade. Do you have in some instances like I'm not. Are you planning these things out like quarter by quarter for multi trade multi location in advance and and the second part to this is I'm assuming there's people here thinking why can't I just use chat GPT for all these things or Claude for all these things too. And, and are you leveraging cloud or chat GPT for these things but maybe just explain a little bit of how you, how you leverage it and then how maybe these guys can think about setting up campaigns to where they're not always in emergency service mode like or capacity or three day callboard mode.

[D]

Yeah. To be, to answer the planning question like how far in advance we're planning and how we're approaching that. It varies from client to client right now you know on how do they have a team? Are we just talking to an individual? How much coordination is happening and like honestly that's probably the big thing that we're working on the most as a business is how do we improve our ability to plan Ahead and coordinate with our clients not just for like the next month, but also for the next quarter and beyond. So that's a big thing that we're actively working on with like, new. We have account managers now. We're hiring a new customer success manager right now. We're hiring another copywriter right now. So our team is expanding our capabilities there and it really is client to client right now in terms of how far in advance we can plan. Some companies have no idea what offers they're running next week. You know, we gotta, we gotta kind of like pull and push a little bit there with regards to AI. Some days I think, man, this is amazing. We're on the bleeding edge of the future. And other days I'm like, we're screwed. You know, this technology is gonna come kill us all. Like, I. I can't. So to. To tell you, like, our philosophy on using AI, it like, changes from day to day. There are a lot of times where I'll like, try to use Claude to put together a campaign for a client. And the amount of editing and back and forth you have to do and inputs, I'm like, it would literally be faster for me to just write this. And there's a lot of times where we do write, we just write everything. And then there are other times where if a client gives us enough brand guidelines, brand voice, types of offers, history of the company, blog content to kind of show what they've run historically to old ads that can give us enough inputs to get some, like, quality drafts from AI. And we primarily use Claude. In addition, I put in all of our frameworks and tools that we've used. But that's another thing right now that we're looking at, like, can we use this in a more systematic way as opposed to sort of piecing it together client by client, because again, some days it's, it's pretty good, and other days it's absolute garbage. I love when clients just default or not clients. I love when other companies just default to content, though. Makes it way easier for us to stand out.

[B]

We have copywriters, so it's like, you know, we recently flew everybody into Phoenix. I think it was, what, seven, seven, eight employees, Something like that somewhere around there today. And, and my mindset is always like, what Chad mentioned earlier is I'm always thinking, how can we help reduce. Like, if we could think about this far enough ahead, like, if it's, if it's the H vac space, you can plan ahead by region. You can have an idea of what to expect per quarter, like, so that is. And. And if we can help them get ahead of them not having to pay so much for paid leads to fill that board, well, that's a win for us. Right. And there's so much value to that. And so that's why I'm asking that question is the thing I keep pushing on the team for is like, let's start thinking a little bit further ahead and putting the right people in place to get the information that we need to get us further ahead. Having been in the marketing space for so long and knowing sometimes you got to like, just keep pushing to go get it from them. Yeah. And keep giving you, you know, obviously you need more team and more support and that's part of my nana's responsibility. But that's the game, right? Like, I want to be the go to email marketing company trade. So somebody's like, hey man, who's the email market? Oh, it's. It's send it. That's. That's team. But having got, like, at least having, you know, my, you know, my best buddies as clients who are willing to give us feedback, like pretty direct feedback, to be the best is like the best situation.

[D]

So I will say one more thing. You just reminded me of shout out to Walt at A one garage door for this. He and I have been talking about this a lot and I am thinking about this particular topic I'm about to mention a lot with our bigger clients, Chad and Aaron. I don't know how much you guys have thought about how much you spend on branded keywords. So Walt brought that up to me because they had all kinds of data on how much revenue they're able to attribute to branded keyword searches. And he's like, how do we bring that down using email? Because if somebody knows Eco or Peterman or A one or another company and they go search it and you're. But you have to spend money to get that click because that was the only way they knew how to find you. How can we reduce the amount of money we spend on branded keyword jobs using email marketing to stay in regular contact with those people instead?

[B]

Boy, this is a whole other conversation. I have a strong opinion about this.

[D]

This is like, I've been talking a ton with, with Walt and his team about this because they're like, let's. Let's reduce the amount of money we have to spend there so that we can use email marketing to. Or let's use email so that we spend less there. I should say.

[B]

I'll tell you this, there's also a defensive piece to that that maybe you haven't really thought through. Because I'm a big believer at the same time as everybody's bidding on these guys, everybody's like, yeah, but I still believe you have to spend something and even though it might be minimal, like you still got to spend something on your keywords for. From a defense tactic, you know.

[D]

Oh, for sure. Oh yeah. I don't think, I don't. I. I would definitely not say we're trying to replace it, but if there's a customer that you could get through email rather than having to pay to get them again.

[B]

I see what you're saying.

[A]

That's what he's mean. You don't have to pay for your own keyword, your own name over and over. Right.

[D]

I think that's the same customer twice. Let's pay to get them once and resell them through.

[B]

That makes perfect actually. That's great.

[E]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

That, that makes sense. So you're catching them before they just went to Google and Googled it.

[A]

Yeah, which we all have. We all have customers that go back into the funnel through that process because we're not doing a good enough job of engaging them through CRM or, or follow up or other things. And then they go back and go, oh yeah, remember them now. Right. And then you pay for them again through the cycle instead of paying a very minimum cost for them through what you can do through, you know, through email or other other ways of communicating with them. Right. That are a quarter of the cost.

[D]

Emails or sms. You just simply say, hey, you're a past customer. This is your VIP line that you get called. This is the number that's only available to you. Create a little bit that prestige as opposed to them thinking they got to go search you again.

[C]

Yeah, that'd be an interesting metric to run. I would assume you could run it somehow of like how much money have you spent spent to bring like how much. How many times have you paid for a portion of your customer base as opposed to one that would be interesting

[D]

to, to look at.

[C]

And there's probably some repeat offenders that may be a mailing campaign all on its own. Like if you could just cut a list down to like these people only go to Google and type my damn name in. Hey, stop doing that. Do use this.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

100. 100. There's so many things we can do. So many.

[B]

I wonder if you actually could pull it off, how that would make us feel. What would that number actually be?

[C]

There's a lot of metrics in the business that you'd rather not look at?

[B]

I think so that's an out of sight, out of mind one. Hey, let's do this to close this thing off because we're kind of pushing close to an hour. But is there something that like. And I don't mean to put you on on the spot, Zach, but maybe just think about what you guys are currently doing. But let's, let's try and like give these guys, you know, give the listeners something because they made it an hour into this thing. That's email marketing. And, and there's probably. We have a lot of small contractors too that might have very, very small lists. I know that you have a theory around the size of your contact list that makes it effective, but do you have something like some, like some free templates or something that we can give to them if they reach out and you can email them? That's like no strings attached, none of that like that. Like, because you have some of that stuff already that we could just give to them to, to at least get them started. Is there anything like that that you can offer to the listeners?

[D]

Yeah, we put together a swipe file, if you will, of 20 great email campaigns we've run for our clients. And these are, these are campaigns our clients have paid us a lot of money in the past to generate. And so we templatize them. If you go to with sendit.com top secret. Oh you can we have a link for this.

[B]

This is like have you been giving this, have you been doing this already?

[D]

I started about a month and a half ago. I started kind of planting this one. I like speak places or. But if you go to top with senate.com top-secret you get 20 templated. Very entertaining high converting email templates to just.

[B]

Okay, cool, we'll throw it in the show notes too. Awesome. Well, good. That worked out perfect. Well, listen, I appreciate it. It's not the most sexy topic to talk about email marketing, but it's certainly an easy like it's a low hanging fruit one that's you know, it's like it's, it's 1500 bucks a month. So it's so inexpensive to do it. And I mean you're even working with agencies too. So you know, it's not just contractors. There's a bunch of agencies that we have as clients too. But you had enough time in this customer service space following up from your days at power selling Pros with outbounding vs now doing email for 3 years all to help these contractors grow and scale. And you've learned so much in this, you know, three year span of having it. And I've learned so much just in the year that I've been able to spend with you. But I wanted to at least give some of these things to our listeners that were low hanging through easy offers and that way they could walk out and at least give something to try without, you know, spending, you know, a dollar if they didn't want to. But if they obviously want to leverage using send it. We do not do contracts, nothing that stuff. So there's no long term stuff like that. It's just that you don't got to continue to prove it over and over again. So that's, that's.

[C]

Chris, the one thing I would say that really opened my eyes was, you know, it go and get obviously the, the free resources but if you find that it isn'. There's a ton of technical stuff that we didn't get into that I think when we set up our account that we had to dive into to make sure that everything was aligned and ready to go. And most of it was there. But there were a few things that were, we're going to increase our open rates. We're going to make sure that land in people's inboxes. Like there's a lot of that stuff that you may not be as familiar with that I encourage, just from my own experience, encourage people to at least talk with them. And I would assume you guys will look at it and say, hey, these eight things are broken. We need to fix these. If you're rather than just firing off an email and being like, oh this sucks. There's a lot of things behind the curtain that I didn't even realize because I don't send. I try not to send emails every day but. But yeah, definitely would, would, would note that for sure.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't know how much how like technically I want to get into the end of this email. But you're right, there's a, there's a lot to it. There's warm up emails that have to be sent to a subset of people before. Like there's a process to this thing makes it work great. It doesn't just like oh number one, boom, the first one and you just. Now there's plenty of cases where there are that. But that's why he's kind of asked for like give us a, give a. You know, give it two months and we'll give you the guarantee back. You know, that way. But that way you Hang on for two months. But there's a process to it and there's a lot of technicality to it and unfortunately, you know, Service Titan has some things they have to do in Marketing Pro in order for Zach to even be able to use it in Marketing Pro. And then of course you got to pay attention to lead attribution, which is always, you know, a thing, all these things. But those are things that you would let someone like Zach do or partner with your marketing person to help you take care of all that stuff for you because he knows how to work through the technical things. So I appreciate both you guys, you know, both you, Chad and Aaron, you know, for, for bringing, you know, Zach on board to help. So thank you guys for, for that. And, and again, you know, I wasn't trying to, you know, yes, I have ownership in the, in the business but I bought it because I know what it does for you, the contractor and it's low hanging fruit and I wanted to, this is just my one way I can get out of my non compete that doesn't disrupt my non compete and I continue to give back to the trade. So Zach, I appreciate you coming on man and kind of, you know, sharing with the listeners some of the, you know, the little details and giving stuff away for, you know, for, for free. I appreciate that. Let's don't do a bunch of that, but let's do enough of that. It feels good but you know, pay attention to how much we're, how much we're giving away. But you should take and use it if it's free, you know, it's, if it's free, it's. For me, that's a great statement.

[A]

Well, I think it's great to have some free content, as much as you give stuff away for free shows trust, right. And I think it gives people an idea to read through what you're delivering to. So if you go to the site, go look, go to that link, you can kind of understand the concept, right? And yeah, there's some free templates, but to be able to hit all the different categories, all the different offers, you're going to have to be more engaged in this, the free template. But that gives you an idea at minimum to say this is what the content looks like, this is what we're writing and why, and then it gives you an idea if that's something you want to do. Right. And I think there's a lot of things that I've seen that you wrote and when we were trying to do some testing and getting going now. That is very engaging. So I think it's worth. It's worth it. And I think regardless today, I know typically podcasts here you've done over time is very much holistic business operation. This is still one thing that everybody can do in their business. Business. Right. Regardless today. And it's one of those kind of small things, but it piles up over time if you do it right. And it's an area that I think we've. We've kind of lacked on over the years, but I've realized that there's a lot of opportunity in it today as we think about, you know, how much things cost to do today versus the idea of engaging your own customer base. So appreciate it, man.

[D]

Thank you, guys. Amen. That was awesome. I'm not just happy to be on the home surface of the ip. I am deeply honored and grateful to have been in the home services VIP room today.

[A]

All right, we got.

[B]

Okay, enough. Jeez. All right, I'll go ahead and bring us home. You know, obviously, email market is just one thing that you can do in the business. So thing I finished with is, you know, don't. If you're going to try it, don't talk about it, be about it. So until next week, when who knows will be. Who knows who will be in the VIP room. We'll see you guys all then. We'll see you.

[A]

What's the password?

[B]

Don't talk about it, be about it.