← To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
To The Point - Home Services VIP Room Podcast
Turning Pain & Addiction Into a $17M Multi-Trade Growth Engine
01:06:20
Loading summary
Transcript192 lines
- [00:02]
Will
This is to the Point a Rhino.
- [00:06]
Chris
Experience voted one of the top home.
- [00:09]
Will
Services, marketing and operations podcasts.
- [00:12]
Chris
Cutting through the and getting to the point. Hey, what's up to the Point listeners? Hopefully your new year is off to a great start. Like mine is man. I, I always feels good beginning of the year like because you got the whole entire year in front of you right. And like you got these big plans and you're like start execute on some of this stuff. And if you heard from our, from our last episode that you know, one of the things I do I've started to do since last year, every year is start with a. Is start with a trip and I took a trip to to Costa Rica with my good friend Tommy Mello and my wife and, and I'm sure I had, I sure I had a great time. But we're recording this before the end of the year so it's a little bit weird. But I'm excited to, to talk to our guests and tell but talk about his story. I'm always trying to find like the unique part of the story and the last part of of the year. Last year with some of the episodes we kind of switched it up on how we were. We were choosing our guests. And so I don't typically talk to the guests, you know, ahead of time and kind of understand their story because most time I know who they are already and I already understand their story. But I got my, my new friend Will on on the episode today. I'm excited to talk about history. It's a quite the interesting journey you had dude. And I'm excited to get into like some of the younger days and like the, that you went through before this started scaling. But to give some perspective to the listeners, you know, start plumbing H Vac business. Yeah. Over in Maryland. Annapolis I think is where you're. You guys started the business out of Fort Mead. I think you're also in but you know, finished your business just north of 17 million bucks. You know, focused on you know the retail or the re tail that's roofing focused on the residential space. That's not always was the case. And then he's got like, you know, got a sight set on this 23, 24 million dollar goal for, for this year. And so you know, naturally I want to know like where how like what's the plan? Where are you trying to go? What are you trying to do? Is it you know, expand services, expand location? Is it fixing operations? Is it sales or what is it? We're going to talk through all that so will number one. Welcome brother. I'm excited to have you on, dude.
- [02:30]
Will
Thank you so much for having me. I. Yeah, hopefully I don't throw up during this. You know, I'm a little nervous, but I'm sure after the first question we'll just roll right through it.
- [02:39]
Chris
So. And so it's, I want to make sure I say it's Staton, right? Oh wait, because you have. Oh, you have stop waiting call state waiting call Staton. Yes. And that's heating, cooling and plumbing. So yeah, so let's just go ahead and jump into it a little bit. And what I want to do is think about. And by the way, you're gonna be fine because this is your first podcast, right?
- [03:02]
Will
Yes. Correct.
- [03:03]
Chris
Yes. First this is that you, you can check a box for an accomplishment for your very first of the year, dude. Yeah, big stuff.
- [03:11]
Will
Big way to start off the year for sure.
- [03:13]
Chris
So, you know, it's, it's, it's a cool story. Some of it's going to be relatable to you. I wish Chad was on here because some of this will be what, you know, he'll relate to with it being, you know, a family business, second generation, but he's also, you know, in logo, in his logo with family as well, just like you are.
- [03:30]
Will
Yeah.
- [03:31]
Chris
Which dad. But, but before we get into that, you know, I kind of set the tone for at least what, where the business just finished and where you're heading and what you do and where you're located. But let's maybe just, you know, kind of dig in a little bit to, you know, before I start digging into your mom, you know, and your teenage years, you know, and the addiction stuff that you went through and you know, kind of getting into the business and like repairing relationship with your dad and like all that, you know, good. You know, let's like just maybe just kind of give a quick overview of, of the, you know, your journey like when you, when you got actually got into the trades, you know, and, and to, to where it is today. And again, I'm going to walk through a bunch of this with you. So I'm just trying to like give me, give me the Cliff Notes vision version.
- [04:16]
Will
Okay, so let me start kind of like when I started in the trades. Right?
- [04:21]
Chris
Yeah, so just like, okay, you, you're now transitioning into anything trade related, you know, plumbing, whatever it is. So like let's just start there and kind of walk us through, you know, a kind of a little quick part of your journey. I'll pick a part Anything I want to along the way?
- [04:32]
Will
Yeah, sure. So I guess, you know, my father's. My father's obviously a plumber. I grew up, you know, going to, you know, idolizing my father. Right. Going around the job sites with him. He did new construction, plumbing. That was his niche, right. And basically him and another guy and just wanted to work alongside of him. So I did that, you know, here and there through my, you know, teenage years and stuff like that. I got out of school, you know, I was not the most studious of students for sure. So I pretty, pretty much knew my path and I wanted to be just like that. So, you know, I worked for a short period of time, worked for a different company when I was in my early 20s. And then I went back to work with my father and with the goal of always wanting to grow his company.
- [05:28]
Chris
Right.
- [05:28]
Will
Take it over. That was my, like, goal from a very young age. Right. And started to just start to hustle, right. Like I was kind of monkey see, monkey do. My dad did new construction. That's what I thought. I just was going to roll right into that. So, yeah, just started just hitting the pavements, just meeting people, getting out there and getting a name out there. Because my dad never did any marketing. I mean, look, pen and paper. Hopefully he builds somebody, you know, and it was just very loosey goosey, you know. And, you know, my dad was very supportive, was like, hey, look, you want to grow, do your thing. And that's what we did. Like, I, I got into the trades doing new construction, plumbing and the, and you know, kind of just grew the company from there and had no idea what I'm doing. I'm still trying to figure out, you know, to this day, you know, dude, you have.
- [06:30]
Chris
Yeah. Okay, so that's cool because I kind of, you know, set you up to blow through it pretty fast and didn't give you a whole lot of extra context because I, I like, I, I want to pick apart some of the story. Not. That's probably not the right word. I just want to dig into parts of the story. Yeah, they're going to be the most, you know, interesting for everyone to hear. As it sits today, the business is successful, you know, and, and, and the fact that you're saying I'm still trying to figure out. I think a lot of people are listening to this podcast because they're still trying to figure out too. Well, Right. So that's why people listen in the first place. And I just want to dig into, like some of the early stuff and then, and Then, you know, you were like, I appreciate you being super transparent with me when you and I got to talk just kind of about the history of you and then the history of the business and, like, adding H vac and there's a show and, like, you know, and. And so many people on here can relate. I think that you can uncover some, like, potential pitfalls for someone this year when they're thinking about trade, whether it be H vac, plumbing, electrical, whatever. Don't matter. So wait on some of that stuff. But you told me early on. Okay, actually, real quick, how. How old are you?
- [07:37]
Will
I'm 41 years old.
- [07:39]
Chris
41. So, you know, so you've still got some Runway dude, like, to really build and scale this thing too. 41. You're young. I'm 46. I'm young. Okay.
- [07:50]
Will
I feel. Yeah, I feel like I'm just starting to come into my prime, to be quite honest. That's how I'm telling you. Feel that way.
- [07:56]
Chris
Well, the 40s were what I heard that it was supposed to be like your peak earning years, right? Like, you kind of went through your 20s, and you started learning, you know, where you're. Where you land professionally in your 30s, and you figure your out. And then by the 40s, you're like, okay, dude. Like, I'm like, you're in best position to, you know, earn max wealth in that time or. Or, you know, moving on. But that's like your first, you know, decade where you can really start to create some wealth. Yeah. So I agree with you, dude. I feel the same way. I'm in them. I've been in it, and I've felt the same way. So. But it was weird when you crossed that 40 mark. Like, when you're. When your age now starts with the four. Like, that was weird, bro.
- [08:30]
Will
When you look when you're 20 and you look at 40, you're like, oh, man. You know, but now that I'm 40, I look at 60 even different. You know what I mean? I don't look at it the same way.
- [08:39]
Chris
A hundred percent, dude. A hundred percent. I feel the same way. Yeah, Totally feel the same way. Yeah. Because when my mom was 40, I was like, God dang, my mom's old. Oh, 100. And now. And now I'm like, no, no, dude, I'm still, like, I can still hang.
- [08:51]
Will
I'm just. I'm just getting it. I feel like I'm just getting it.
- [08:55]
Chris
So listen, like, talking about moms, let's. Let's go back to your mom. So I'M gonna take you there for just a second. Now, when you were. I think you said 13 and was. When your mom passed away and you were 13 years old, right?
- [09:07]
Will
Yeah. So my. My mom was. She was. She was the rock of the family, right? So, yeah, you know, anytime I. My brother and I wanted to do something or something was going on, we would go to dad. My dad's a real. He's not saying my mom was not, but he's just a nice guy. He's just kind of. He's a little bit of a pushover, you know, but he'd be like, now you got to talk to Mom. So she was the glue, definitely the family. She ended up, you know, she contracted leukemia. Look, didn't smoke, didn't drink, healthy. It's the 90s. She did calisthenics. She was very much in shape and got leukemia. And I mean, right away went to John Hopkins and. And eight months later ended up passing. So. Geez.
- [09:55]
Chris
And so you're. You're young, right? And that's a lot to process at 13 years old. And, you know, and. And, you know, there's no way you were prepared for that. I mean, really, it's hard anyway, but especially at that age, like, mentally, there's no way you're prepared to, you know, to. To deal with that, especially, you know, saying that she's. She's the rock of the family. It's like, now life changes. And the reason I want to talk about this is because, like, to me, I just had, like, a conversation with my son last night, and it's nowhere near, like, about what you're saying, but. But It's. It's. He's 14, right? And so, like, it's really pivotal moment for his. His, you know, autopilot, his brain and the way that he thinks about things and the effort that he puts in. And, like, I'm trying to build his autopilot to be a doer, right? To not just think it, but actually do it. And that's not easy when you're distracted by things, and it's not easy if you have. Don't have someone to lead you, you know, and so I just. Having this conversation, I'm like, I'm seeing some real, real talent in him as a wrestler. And. And I wrestled, you know, and. And was a great wrestler, and nobody told me that early on, like, so I didn't get my autopilot created. My wrestling coach is one that actually taught me, but it took me a year. So I'm, like, trying to get to him early. I'm saying, son, I see some real talent. And you're, like, not just telling you because you're my son. I'm telling you like, you got something, dude. And if you just applied a little bit more effort, you know, to even just. I'm not. He's doing enough, but if he does more, he'll advance faster. And I'm trying to, like, build, you know, this confidence in him. And. And I mean it. Like, I meant it when I said it to him, but I'm there to lead him through it because I didn't want him to mis. Lose a year. Like, I'm new. He's a freshman in high school. I'm like, dude, you get to wrestle varsity your freshman year, and you can accomplish something really, really great, but you're going to put a little bit more effort in than what just the basic effort is. And so I'm leading him. Now you at. And he's 14. I'm thinking you at 13. I'm not sure if it was earlier or later in your. When you're 13, but the point is, you got to go through high school now, which are like, pivotal years for you, kind of creating who you're going to be as a human being. And you turned. You turned a little bit in the wrong direction. Well, a little bit. Some hiccups, bro. And sure, from there kind of how things progress. But you end up, you know, getting into drugs and creating an addiction and like that. And again. And listen, your dad, like my dad, total pushover. Right. And was kind of wanted to be more of a friend to me, I think, than a parent. And I love my dad and. But he, you know, he'd make an excuse for me if I asked him to, right?
- [12:37]
Will
Yeah.
- [12:38]
Chris
That is not helpful when you're trying to lead somebody now. There's got to be some accountability and some leadership. So you're going down. And I'm not putting that on your dad. I'm just not talking about.
- [12:47]
Will
Yeah, I know.
- [12:47]
Chris
Yeah, but. But you. But you're now on this path, right? And you're trying to figure things out. You're young and used to getting. You start getting into drugs and stuff, and probably because you're just trying to figure out with your life. I want to talk about, though, for a minute, and it's not so much about the addiction as it is what, you know, how you progressed through it. And I'm going to touch on, like, in this. In this story on how's some of this stuff connected to you today. Like Today. Today. So, so maybe like, let's just talk through. Okay, You. You. I think it is. You said you got into addiction. And if you want to talk about what it was, I'll let you. I don't care about that part. Addictions. But I think it was 21. You felt it took you to 21 to like get your together and become 22. Okay, so you get your together at 22. Now you. You are. If you're an addict. And you and I talked about this on the call. I have like this theory right around. Around addiction. And you think about this. Think about how hard it would be for some people when they become addicts. Like, how hard they work just to get the next fix. Real hard, buddy. Just applied that like something constructive.
- [14:04]
Will
They're usually pretty successful.
- [14:06]
Chris
That's what I'm saying. And you think about even like, like drug dealers. Drug dealers work really, really, really hard in super high stressful situations with a shitload of risk. I mean, what do you think business is? You could do it, you know, but you're thinking fast money, easy money. You don't have to have a skill for this thing. But like, if you just applied the same effort, you could be really successful at things. Things. And there's a. Plenty of very, very successful business owners that were former dealers and addicts. Plenty of them. I know them. And so it proves out my theory on this thing. Like, it's the same effort. It just get. You know, it just might take you a little bit longer over here, but at least it's on the up and up. And so you kind of prove out my theory on this. Not that I'm saying you're a drug dealer, but I'm saying, like, you go through these addictions, you're learning behaviors.
- [14:50]
Will
Yeah, right.
- [14:52]
Chris
And. And now here you are, you know, and you know, well, obviously you're well passed out at 41 years old. But I'm gonna dig into like, what is it that you feel like from that moment set the tone for your work ethic, you know, post like, hey, cool, I probably. You probably messed up the relationship with dad a little bit. Or I'm like, he, you know, or you got to repair these things with your dad or with relationships because if you go down that path, you know, you're ruining relationships and like that. But like, what is it that you kind of took away from that, that you applied to the, like just your business sense today? Like, you gotta still have a little bit of that hustle in you, but it's just a little bit Refined hustle. By now you've probably heard how much of a proponent I am for Blueon. But I'm not the only one. When you talk to service managers using Bluon, the stories all sound very familiar. Nick Christensen over at Her Heating says his team saved 46 hours in just the first month. Between the parts lookup, wiring diagrams and AI troubleshooting, his techs are solving issues faster and ordering the right part the first time. It's even streamlined communications between the techs and the parts department. They just screenshot over the right part from Blu on and send it over. It's simple, it's accurate and it works. And yeah, Peterman Brothers is definitely seeing that impact too. Do yourself a favor, click the link in the description and book a quick demo to see it in action.
- [16:23]
Will
So that's, so that's a good question. So I will tell you.
- [16:29]
Chris
And I.
- [16:29]
Will
Don'T want to, I don't want to come off some type of way, but I'll just be totally transparent. Part of I think why people, and I'm sure normal people struggle with this too, is having, struggling with a negative sense of self, right? How you perceive yourself and being satisfied, always looking for that extra. Whatever you want to call it, right? And in business, like I run into people all the time and they're like, you know, they knew me from my past or they've watched the company progress, especially over the a short, you know, we've grown quite a bit just over like a four year span since we switched to all service, right. And people come up to me like, oh dude, you're oh this is so awesome and blah, blah and, and I'm just being transparent, like I don't feel that way. I feel like I have so much more to go, you know, and, and maybe it's part of just like. And I have learned gratitude and that's helped me stay sober throughout the years, but always wanting that more, you know, like never being comfortable knowing that my full potential is still not reached. And part of being an a recovering addict is kind of having that little hole, you know, you kind of have. You just don't. You never feel satisfied. To be quite honest. I mean I'll just, it's kind of why I use drugs and alcohol. It was, I was trying to fill something, this endless void you know, within me, you know.
- [18:10]
Chris
And.
- [18:12]
Will
Dude, I would, I would. And you talk about like, dude, I would come up with some crafty to get what I need, you know what I'm saying? Like some crafty way the mind is A powerful thing, you know, and how that translated into business is being able. So first you can read people. Because I used to hang around people that were, I mean, not of the utmost character, you know, so. And I, I myself was that as well. Right. So I have learned to read a room, negotiate better, ask. Right? Always. I'll always ask questions. I mean, that's how I've learned to do this, is I'm not afraid to ask. Right. And another thing it, that I've learned from more recovery, right, is like I had to take personal responsibility for my actions. Like Jocko's got that book, Extreme Ownership.
- [19:14]
Chris
Extreme ownership, Yep.
- [19:15]
Will
Yeah, man. Dude, look, this is the deal. There's a deal. A lot of people lose their mothers and fathers and stuff like that. And yeah, there was a lot of conditions. Like when my mother passed, my dad worked seven days a week all the time, dude. Like, he was trying to provide for me and my brother. I think that's kind of how he dealt with it too, to be quite honest.
- [19:36]
Chris
But, you know, I think that's a pretty normal. That's a pretty normal thing that people.
- [19:41]
Will
Just buried himself in work, you know, he came from an old school, very old school father and mother, and he buried himself from work. And I was left to my own devices. I pretty much could do whatever I wanted to, you know, And. But all that aside, I had to learn when I got sober, like, I had to learn to take absolute effing. Can we cuss on this? Is this a cuss friendly show or. We're not cussing, right?
- [20:07]
Chris
No, no. You, you can absolutely say.
- [20:11]
Will
Yes.
- [20:12]
Chris
It's, it's, it's admissible on me.
- [20:15]
Will
I'm gonna try to beat me, okay? But I mean, like, I did absolute take extreme ownership of that and like, no one. I can't fix anybody, right? I cannot fix anybody. Like you were talking about your son. You can set the conditions, can lay out the path. They're gonna have to walk that path. And that's the same with me. When I, when I learned a different way, like they were like, hey, look it, dude. And I relate recovery a lot to business, right? You can't stay clean without a good group of people. You cannot grow a business without a great group of people. If you think you can do all this yourself, honestly, past a million dollars, it's just not. It's going to be a mess. You're going to be a mess and you're going to be miserable. You're going to know. But so, yeah, I've learned a lot of what I. A lot of the. You know, it's funny, when you get clean, you try to break, because this is the deal. The drugs are just but a symptom. Like you have to change who you are. You know, you have to rewire. And just like in business, you have to. I had to rewire my expensive the last four years. I had to learn real quick, you know, made a lot of mistakes. But life recovery. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've been sober 19 years, 20 years in August, God willing. Right. I've made a ton of mistakes. The one mistake I haven't made is I haven't picked up over it. Well, just like in business, I have made a lot of mistakes. I try to learn from them, and I haven't gone bankrupt, so I still have a chance every single day. You know what I mean?
- [21:50]
Chris
So, dude, I. So I appreciate it.
- [21:53]
Will
Perspective. It's all about perspective.
- [21:55]
Chris
Perspective.
- [21:57]
Will
Yeah.
- [21:58]
Chris
And. And then, and then effort and follow effort. Dude, you. You have. I mean, you, you hit the nail on the head. It's like, it's. But you, you like, covered a few really cool things. You talked about the people that you're around situationally at that time. You're just learning. You're soaking the things up on how to be, you know, you know, fit in to that group. All of the, all of this for you is trying to fill that hole.
- [22:23]
Will
Yeah.
- [22:23]
Chris
You're just filling it with whatever. You pick the thing, you're filling it with it.
- [22:27]
Will
Yeah.
- [22:27]
Chris
Whether it's business, because by the way, business can be an addiction for people too. Right. And you feel in the thing with the thing, it's whatever it is.
- [22:36]
Will
Yeah.
- [22:36]
Chris
But my point is, is like, you know, you're talking, you know, almost 20, you know, 20 years. So congrats. And that's a two decades, bro. Like, you did it like you kicked its ass and, and you didn't let it define you. You know what I mean? But you were in your 20s. Like, people, I'm. I don't think that you go to college, you got figured out. Like, I was nowhere even near to figuring out in college. Only thing I figured out was I knew how to party pretty hard and I was really good at being social and. And, you know, who would have thought that carried me into my career and a sales, you know, career. But at. But what it boils down to is I'm just very personable. I enjoy being around people. I legit, you know, care about people, you know, and want to have a. Like, so it's like a genuine thing for me to be this. And it's a genuine thing for me to want to have a podcast and do these things, you know, every single week, because I want everybody to hear the stories and hope that they can take something from it. And that fills my cup. That fills my hole. Right. Whatever that is.
- [23:39]
Will
Yeah.
- [23:40]
Chris
So. So telling the story like this is hopefully filling somebody's hole. It's on the other end of this microphone. Right. Like, that's why we're talking about it. And otherwise, you know, what good your story, other than it's a success case for, you know, you. Right. And, like, we should share these things. It's like when I, I, I think I told you this. One of my buddies came on last year and we talked about his, the suicide of his daughter at 13 years.
- [24:04]
Will
He told me.
- [24:04]
Chris
Yeah, you know, and, and, like, what good would that have been if we didn't go and share for somebody else to hear it? And I'm grateful that we did, and I'm grateful he talked about it. So, so, you know, the way I look at this is like, dude, you're just getting started at 21. You know, I mean, like, you're real early and just being an adult, let's be honest. Like, I don't care. They say 18 is being adult, like 20s.
- [24:26]
Will
You're just, I don't look at eight. I know. I agree with you on that 100%.
- [24:30]
Chris
And so you, you know, but you learned in that, in that time frame of going through a very hard thing to kick, and you can carry that into business with you. And it, you said it's perspective. It is perspective. It's like, it's very. If you've never been an addict, and I've never been an addict, but I've been around addiction, and I understand how difficult it is to kick it.
- [24:58]
Will
Very difficult.
- [24:59]
Chris
It's a disease, you know, so it's very difficult to overcome that. Well, you overcome that, man. Like, you can overcome all kinds of stuff, and, and I think you get to pull from that, like, because, you know, difficult situations come up. You've been through them. You started with plumbing at H Vac. That didn't go as planned, which we'll talk about. You got to figure out to get through it. Well, I've been through much harder. So we can figure this stuff out. And then what's good is, you know, I don't know about this. About, about you. If, if, you know, if you, you know, you can't learn the difference between managers, you know, in Your business and leaders in your business. And there's a difference. And. And what am I? Where do I fall? And just because I have a position that's in leadership, does that mean I'm a good leader? Not always. Right. Or we put people in leadership roles because they were good technicians who should never be in a leadership role, but we just tried to advance them through the business.
- [25:47]
Will
I have a good story on that, dude.
- [25:50]
Chris
Well, but you have to be able to recognize it, right? And so you're coming in to lead this business of the promised land, but you get to pull from an. From an incredible past full of all kinds of. So. So talking about, you know, your mother passed away so young, you know, and. And how you're, you know, kind of left to be more independent and to kind of get away with anything, and you get into addiction. You get through a boom. Cool. That set the tone for your life. It still comes down to no matter who's listening on the other end of this microphone, perspective, like, pick your. Pick your shitty, you know, childhood. Right. We all got something in there, probably. So I want to just shift into, like, more business mode now. Okay. So. So you come into this business, you know, your second generation, you know, because you with your dad, you guys now have, you know, you have the new branding on the. You have the branding on the business. It's got you and your dad on it. It's legacy. Like, it's a heritage business, which I love.
- [26:49]
Will
Yeah.
- [26:50]
Chris
You know, it makes you proud, you know, because you guys got yourself from a vehicle together, but you kind of start. You guys start with plumbing. All right. And. And then I think it was in. Was it in 2020 that you guys were, like, cutting new construction? Is that one. Was that. I get the year right.
- [27:06]
Will
End of 2020. Decided to do it. Yeah.
- [27:09]
Chris
Okay. And that was like 3 million ish bucks or something. I can't remember if that's 3 million.
- [27:13]
Will
With 300, 000 in PPP. So it was 2 points.
- [27:17]
Chris
Okay. Damn.
- [27:18]
Will
2.7. Top line, real revenue. Right.
- [27:21]
Chris
Okay, so I'm gonna double dip on this question, bro. Yeah, yeah, you got that. And then. And then the next year, you decide to add H vac to the mix. Is that right? Was it in 21?
- [27:31]
Will
January 2021.
- [27:33]
Chris
Jesus. That's a lot of change. So let's help me understand how you're navigating this. Obviously, we're coming like we're in the coven. We're kind of calm and out the back end of that thing kind of. They're still weird at the end of the year.
- [27:45]
Will
Yeah.
- [27:46]
Chris
And we're kind of coming out of it and you say, hey, cool, let's cut new construction. Hey, cool, let's add H Vac too, bro. Help me understand what the hell you were thinking.
- [27:56]
Will
Well, again, this goes back to. So the one thing so I grown that took the company over from my dad at this point. He was fully out by 2020. It was his last year. 75 years old. And we had grown to about whatever, almost 3 million in new construction. And I hated it. It's everything I had dreamed of. Like I wanted to do all these high. We. We did real super high end houses. Like I did. The last house I did was Kevin Plank's house. It was, it was huge. But anyways, that was the last job we actually finished. But I just wanted to get out of it so bad, dude, for so many reasons. I started learning more about the like residential home service business. And I always knew our customer service was really good, but I didn't know anything about running us, what a service company was. And I heard about Service Titan. So I was like, okay, cool. And, and this is. Look to give some people some advice of looking back. I'm gonna tell this story and then I'm gonna say, hey, if I had a match, if I had a crystal ball, this is what I might have done different, you know, perfect. So 2020 comes like, let's get on Service Titan. Sign up for Service Titan. June of 2020. Went through the implementation after that. Couldn't figure out Service Titan, right. What I, what I have learned, sat through all them classes and all that stuff. And what I have learned is if you want to use Service Titan very well, you need to have, you need to either be the Service Titan guru in your business or have someone that really knows how to use Service Titan at a high level. Because I'll be honest, I don't think most people do, to be quite honest. Yeah. And I'm blessed to have great people in that position. But anyways, got on it. I couldn't figure out how to use it. I wanted to bring on H Vac because this is how naive I was plumbing in H Vac. They're similar. They sound good, you know, like, let's do it right at the same time, let's cut out new construction. I wrote a letter. Like literally one day was like, I'm going to write a letter. All the builders, hey, thank you, but no thank you. I did finish up all the obligations I had right at this point. I did zero Marketing, right. I did have a GMB page that I'd set up maybe a year or two prior, just at a sheer. Like, I don't even know why, but I did it right and went full bore. Went full bore, dude. And brought on H vac. Knew nothing about the business of H vac, much less the trade of heating and air conditioning. And then, you know, obviously before this, made an announcement to the company, hey, we're doing this. Most people stayed on to. To help finish out some of the projects at the same time bringing on marketing, pumping a lot of money when the money from the service wasn't coming in at the same. They didn't like flow together, you know, because I didn't understand. Again, didn't understand. I mean, look, at this point, dude, I. I didn't even know what a P. L. I didn't. I knew what it was. I didn't know how to read it. I didn't know a gross margin, gross profit, EBITDA net profit, labor percentage. All this stuff. Had zero clue. Okay, Flew down to Sarasota, took Terry Nichols three day. This is how you run a H VAC class. I found it very informative. Got a binder about this big, right? And you know, it's.
- [31:37]
Chris
Dude, Terry's a good dude. I like Terry.
- [31:39]
Will
I love dude. So do I. I love the class. Dude, it was practice. I. Dude, I'll be honest. Anybody starting, Terry's great.
- [31:45]
Chris
Yeah, Terry's awesome.
- [31:47]
Will
And came back and I'm like, you know, H vac got memberships and service and demand, demand up and flip and flip. And it was just like, oh my God. I had to learn that real fast and started marketing that. And the first year we did 7 million, right? Which I guess was end of 2021. And dude, I mean, if you want me to go into the mistakes, I can go into the mistakes.
- [32:14]
Chris
But I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you about it because I mean, first off, I didn't, I didn't know the service titan thing. If you told me. I totally forgot about that because, like, you added all kinds of. In the 12 month period, same day.
- [32:29]
Will
Service for plumbing too. Got out of new construction, you know.
- [32:32]
Chris
I mean, and maybe some of the, maybe some of the, of the risk is because you got blinders on. You don't know what you don't know, right? So. So you're like kind of like, oh, this all sounds like a good idea, but you're not thinking through it. Like, this is a problem that I've had for forever.
- [32:47]
Will
I'm impulsive. I'm very like, hey, I got a good idea.
- [32:51]
Chris
To the Point Listeners, listen up. What if the biggest thing holding back your business isn't marketing or hiring, but your bennies? The benefits for home service companies, a better 401k can be the difference between great techs and losing them to the shop right down the street. Basic Capital, our newest sponsor, is the only 401k built to actually put your team on a real path to retirement. Companies that switch over see higher participation, happier teams, and dramatically low turnover because your crew finally gets a plan that's a true benefit, not just a checkbox. Don't wait until your best people walk, make the move and click the link below to get 12 months with 0 employer fees when you join. Basic Capital. Attention to the point listeners. Branding has never been more important. Is your brand in serious need of an upgrade? Do you have a new company and need a new brand but don't want to wait six months or pay a ridiculous amount to get it done? If your brand looks like everyone else's, well, guess what? You are everyone else. But Prolific, they build brands that dominate from the first Google search to the driveway. Prolific Brand Design can help you be more of you because you are the unique difference that sets you apart from all your competitors. So let's be real for a second. Your brand is either winning new customers or costing you money. Just ask some of our clients like Ken Goodrich, Ishmael Valdez, my boy Chad Peterman, and even myself, Olific Brand Design is the creative pros behind some of the best home services, logos, truck wraps, websites, and now email marketing campaigns. Wouldn't you love it if your email marketing open rates were 30, 40, 50%? And don't go into the spam folder. Hell, that's how we roll at Prolific. So check them out at prolific brand design.com and ask for the to the Point promo. Prolific Brand Design Be more of you. Be Prolific. Yeah. Are you an integrator?
- [34:49]
Will
No.
- [34:50]
Chris
Okay, see that's like I'm telling you and that you know how important we're in the os.
- [34:54]
Will
We are in eos.
- [34:56]
Chris
Okay, cool. So you got your rocks. You got all your. Okay, dude, we've been in it for.
- [34:59]
Will
A year and a half.
- [35:00]
Chris
That helps you. That certainly is helpful. I did, I did it two years ago with our team. Actually. We just kind of went through a similar process with, with our leadership team. Not the same EOS process, but very similar. So there's some of that stuff still. Like is absolutely works today to help with just KPIs and, like, who's accountable for what to get to the end goal. But yeah, so you bring on a new CRM, which is already cumbersome. Like the, the lift on service titan is enormous. And you do got to have somebody in house. Okay? You're making a switch from new construction to service. You're adding on another, you know, you're adding on another, you know, trade, and you're just trying to figure it all out at once. And by the way, you're trying to learn how to read a P. L.
- [35:40]
Will
How to run a service call, how to book a call. What is, what is performance dispatch.
- [35:44]
Chris
So, but listen, listen, hang on a second. I also think there's an argument, dude, for jumping and building the parachute on the way down.
- [35:53]
Will
Me too.
- [35:53]
Chris
Now, you probably would do it different today.
- [35:56]
Will
I would, I would, But I am more like, let's get the ball rolling.
- [36:01]
Chris
Yep.
- [36:02]
Will
I'm kind of that guy. You know, I have a high risk tolerance to a. To a point. Some are way higher than mine.
- [36:07]
Chris
Right.
- [36:08]
Will
So I'm not like. Yeah, but. Yeah, I agree.
- [36:11]
Chris
But I would argue that maybe you didn't do this, like, if you were spending like 12 plates, dude. And like, you know, maybe you don't do it if you're not as high risk. And maybe you're still kind of like stuck in this smaller business trying to, you know, tiptoe your way through and figure things out and.
- [36:26]
Will
But I do think people. I think people have a tendency. Most operators who are former technicians, they. And look, I'm gonna. They overthink. They think themselves out of doing it. You gotta, like, I mean, sometimes you just gotta take a chance.
- [36:44]
Chris
Analysis paralysis is what that is called. So, so let's. I'm gonna back up just a little bit. Let's talk about the addition of H vac, you know, and, and even though that you're finished, good. You went through some like, shit operationally, like, figure out terrible. It was a disaster. Like, this was a disaster. I use air quotes because it's terms now, now you're post mortem now, so you're, You're, You've moved on. There will be other operational challenges that you face as it scales for sure. And, and, you know, Chad will tell you that same thing, obviously, having been through it. But you. How did you. How did you, like, today, how, how did you. Or, you know, now that you're past it, how did you rebuild, like, that operational backbone so that way you could grow H vac without, you know, breaking the business again? Like, is there Is it people you put in place? Is it processes? Yes, I own it. Like, you clearly learned, like, okay, this thing is broken because of xyz. We fix that. So like maybe talk about that fix.
- [37:47]
Will
Okay, so when I went down to Terry's class, gives you a book on these KPIs, right? But then you hire these people that don't have the same mindset as you, that these are not obtainable or they're not doable, and they start dictating and then that messaging filters down to the technicians, right? And we weren't doing a good job, holding accountable, being new in the business and a little gun shy and, and yeah, Terry's saying you could do it, but then John, who's been in the industry for a long time, you think is really good, says doesn't get that same message.
- [38:27]
Chris
Yeah, he doesn't get the same.
- [38:28]
Will
Yeah, he doesn't, he don't, he don't buy into it, right? And then that filters down. And this is one of the most dangerous things in a company. It's like you got a manager or a leader who doesn't buy in or believe that messaging is going downhill. And that's really dangerous. And that's what happened in H Vac, you know, not pricing the services correctly, right? Not pricing your services correctly, not understanding the sales process, right? Not having a refined sales process, right? Not having your marketing dialed in around it and having bad leadership that's filtering the wrong messages down to the technicians who are then in the customer's homes and not doing a good job, customer service and quality wise. And we literally cleaned house. There's not one person left from that, you know, initial, initial H VAC state and expansion, however you want to call it. And we got people in here who do buy into the process, who have been a part of the results, right? And we hire, we hire differently now. Where before, like, I tell you what, when we hire now, we just lay it out very transparent. Like we're like, I'm very, very. And I spent a lot of. I love recruiting, right? It's, it's what I do. I like connecting with people, same as you. I, I love helping people as well. Like, I really do. And I, I think it was that guy who's on your podcast and it was Leland Smith and that guy. Was it Frank or whatever?
- [40:06]
Chris
Yeah, Frank DeMarco.
- [40:08]
Will
And I use this all the time. We will break our backs. If you're willing to get better, we'll break our backs, but we're not going to break our expectations. And we came Together as a leadership team. And we said, look, these are the expectations. We know we can hit these, right? There's no excuse for not hitting them. And we're going to hire around them, and we're going to hold people accountable to hitting these. And it's just. Simple as that, right? It's just like Leland Smith says, I use this all the time. I. I've talked to him and he would be like, he would drive me crazy. He would say, it's easy to do. And I'm like, dude, this is not easy. He's like, will, it's easier to do. It's just easier not to do it, you know, And I. I say that quote all the time, you know, so resetting expectations, knowing that we can hit these KPIs, having a sales process being priced correctly. Learn vendor deals, like, vendor deals with your equipment. All these things that when I got into it, I didn't know. And I have learned through pain, through asking other people, raising your hand. I don't if I'm the dumbest guy in the room. If I get a room, like in a room of people, I just ask questions. Because, look, if you want to find the keys to success, just ask the questions. Everybody will tell you the answers, right? It's just like Tommy Mello said. And I loved it. Recently, his guys were getting on him so much about, like, dude, why are you telling everybody all this stuff? He's like, why can tell everybody to go to the gym every day, but that doesn't mean they're gonna go because 95 or more are not gonna do it or not even try with, you know, the analysis paralysis thing. So.
- [41:50]
Chris
Yeah, dude, that's so true. I. I love that you reference, you know, Leland. I love Leland because I remember you telling me, like, you took advantage. He was on that podcast forever ago. He dropped a cell.
- [42:00]
Will
He did.
- [42:01]
Chris
And.
- [42:02]
Will
And I wrote that thing down.
- [42:04]
Chris
Good for you, man. Like, good for you. That's why he dropped it. Right?
- [42:07]
Will
Same.
- [42:08]
Chris
And he actually, you know, responded to you and helped you. Like, Gez, that's weird. But it's you. You actually talked about something that's really important, and I'm bummed. Chad's. Chad's not on here. And this is my fault because I've moved this thing. But the. He's talked about how this trickle down affects your team. And this is like, as the business scales, it's. It's like, it's so important that everyone's dialed in to, you know, chasing whatever the. Whatever the goal is, and everybody's like bought into it, you know, and then you have measurables in place. So that way those people understand how they are measuring up, you know, for whatever they're responsible for towards that goal. And. And then if they're falling short for some reason that they're getting the support that they need and feel cared about, things like that. And, and it is so important as these things scale that you have everybody bought in to the vision, you know, and the mission of the business, like that is so incredibly important. And if they can't get an answer that they need and they make a decision based on the values of your business that you'll support that. And, and I think that's very important. And it might not be the right call, but at least they use the right, you know, the right method. And that is using your values to make a decision that they thought and then you learn from it. You coach on it to. So that way you can make the decision differently. That's business that's going to happen. But what it's doing is so my. We did. We did a leadership exercise last week with, you know, we had 25 leaders in town, you know, at Rhino. And we work through what our leadership values are. Okay. What are we going to be held to, what standard? And then we are responsible for rolling that down through our teams and living those values in our business regardless of goal. Right. Like those are the things that we're going to be. And I genuinely believe that the number one is this genuinely care value is the. To me, that is the foundation of every other value that you have in your business. If you genuinely care, the others become easy. If you pick integrity, transparency, you, like you said different, like all of it comes from this like genuinely caring phase. And if you can get that built into people, man, you're going to have good leaders who don't even know their leaders. Like they're just leading by example and they're great leaders, you know, but it's always going to be a thing as you scale and grow. And I have no doubt you'll blow this thing past your 24 million gold and it's going to keep going up and up and up and up. And as it gets bigger, it's harder. And then. And then the message gets mixed. You go to watch Terry, who's a freaking awesome speaker. He'll get you fired up. But if that same thing don't hit to John at the bottom, well then it didn't get, you know, didn't get communicated correctly. Yeah. So Chad. What Chad would do is he would actually to make sure the. The message was clear and not like telephone. You know, where it's changed. After you told a bunch of people he was recording the messages and then sending out the email with the actual video message, you know, to everybody. And then you just kind of hope they actually watch it, you know, so that way there was no mix up on what the messaging was.
- [45:06]
Will
I do that with Loom every week. So we have, we have end of the month meetings. I speak in front of the whole company, we talk about what we did that month. We have a big wheel where we get people to spin the, you know, spin the wheel. I learned that from eco plumbers and all that. And I try to. Yeah, I agree. I. I mean, I think. I couldn't agree more. I think you need to find people who genuinely care. If, if you can find people that really effing care, I mean, that's half the battle, man.
- [45:40]
Chris
Have you ever done the will and skill? Like schematic, where you. You'll put the little chart up, says high will, high skill, low will, low skill. And you kind of see where do your people, you have your management team look at their team, the people that they manage and say, you know, are they low wheel, high skill? Are they high wheel, high skill? They kind of. You kind of rank them based on their effort and then their, you know, their, their skill, like how. What they're good at. And there's different versions of it, right. That you do, but it's. It is a very telling exercise to go through and kind of see where your people rank.
- [46:21]
Will
Do you know what we do now? We make everybody take a Wonderlic test when they. On, when they, when they interview. Dude, if they can't, it's on. Indeed. Wonderlic is a person that's like a disc and stuff like that. And my thing is this. If you can't even take 30 minutes to fill out the test, you don't even apply. Yeah, that's the way I look at it.
- [46:46]
Chris
Okay. Okay. So that's good because that's a whole other path I could go down. I. I love doing the personality stuff. Discs, color code, enneagrams, you name it. I'm from pretty much every version of them and I respond well to them because it helped. It's helped me be a better manager of people because I understand how they receive what I'm trying to tell them, and I know how to change it based on what their profile is. And that was something I had to learn. I still have to work through and learn. There's some people that I have a difficult time connecting with. Not because they don't care about them, Will. I just don't know if I'm giving them the information in the way that they receive it the best. So. But I'm gonna shift gears, okay. Because we already kind of blowing through this thing quickly. And I want to talk about your levers. Okay. Because we're talking now. We're it, you know, into 2026. We're talking about 2026. You got this goal to hit 24 million, you know, or more. Whatever.
- [47:39]
Will
We have a stretch goal.
- [47:41]
Chris
Let's talk about the levers. Okay, so. So what are the levers that you're like, focused on to drive that. That growth? Like, give me that. Like, hey. Because you had to have already worked the plan backwards to try and figure.
- [47:53]
Will
Out how you're going to get.
- [47:55]
Chris
What are those levers?
- [47:57]
Will
So we're opening up our second location in Timonium, Cockeysville. We should be going live, I'd say in another week or so. We're working on getting our GMB location. You know, Terry, when I did that class with Terry, he told me, if you do this right, your H vac is going to outgrow your plumbing. And I did not see it at that time. It's already. That's already happened. And next year will happen even more. Our levers are make sure we're holding accountable to the sales process we have in place. Right. So we just implemented call by call management. We just hired our first call by call manager. We're doing. We're. We're in the process of hiring our second one.
- [48:39]
Chris
Right.
- [48:41]
Will
And being calm through the storm, right. Like we know what we're capable of doing.
- [48:46]
Chris
Right.
- [48:46]
Will
We have a plan in place. We have all these Excel spreadsheets. Like, we're going to add this technician at this time, this ca. At this time. We're going to flip this. We're going to get this many leads. You know, we have a very robust marketing strategy and how that money is allocated and staying to that. We're not going to pull back from marketing because I think I see a lot of people, like, first thing they want to do is like, cut back on what we're going to. We're going to stay steady on that path. So number, number one is staying steady on the sales process and the customer service experience. I'd say another thing is staying steady on the marketing. But, you know, looking at your marketing all the time, right, like, where are we pacing? We have weekly Pacing calls. We, we do our own internal. I'm very lucky to have a great VP of marketing that came from a very large company in Baltimore. We pour our own pacing reports. All of our calls come in through Service Titan. You know, we listen to phone calls, all those kind of things. You know, look, what's your closing rate? What's your average ticket? Right? What's your dollar per lead? We know those KPIs to be successful if we get the leads and we book at the rate we should and keep our cancellation rate low and our text close at the dollar per opportunity and you know, speaking for plumbing, but, and then if we get the demand calls and the demand ops and we flip like we should and our dollar per lead is like it should and we, we talk about those things and reinforce those things and keep focused on the customer experience every single day, we should win.
- [50:37]
Chris
In home services, speed to lead is everything. Chirp stands out. By transforming your communication strategy with Chirp, accelerate your lead response time with instant sms, text messaging, email and ringless voicemail automation. Chirp's cutting edge technology ensures you're the first and the most persistent, helping you close more deals than ever. But that's not all. Say goodbye to missed opportunities with Chirp's incredible follow up system. Keep your leads engaged and moving smoothly through your sales funnel without lifting a finger. And with Chirp deep integrations with top CRMs like ServiceTitan, Housecall Pro and Jobber, you can launch laser targeted campaigns to connect with the exact right leads at the exact right time. Automation creates efficiency. Efficiency unlocks scalability. With Chirp, you can automate speed to lead, estimate follow ups, rehash abandoned call follow ups, cancel job follow ups, review requests outbounding to your list, annual reminders, membership expiration, follow ups, and so much more. So stop chasing leads, capture them, connect faster and close more deals with chirp. Contact Chirp today and elevate your communication game. You kind of sound like Tommy a little bit.
- [52:02]
Will
I didn't mean to, I'm just, I mean, look, I, I didn't mean to get.
- [52:06]
Chris
So it's gonna be our first billionaire friend. Like I think you take some direction. Not a bad guy to listen to. I mean, but you're right, like you hit on some like crazy critical metrics and, and the question, like the conversations that we'll have is how do you make our business as predictable as possible? And you look at the things that you can control and the things that you can't control, right? And, and like your average ticket is Something you can control?
- [52:31]
Will
Yes.
- [52:31]
Chris
Your booking rate is something you can control. Your cost per lead. Yeah. Unless you're doing it yourself. It kind of has some control. But you have some control via accountability. Right. Like you, you can pick and choose your partners and, and pay attention to your metrics and figure out how to push. So there's some controllability there. The market you can't control, you know, like the, you know, the person that's buying from you, you can persuade, you can't control, like, but there's things that you, you know, in your business that you can't control to create some predictability. And people have been doing it for a long time. It's just usually it's, okay, cool, we got the plan in place. It's the accountability of follow up and it's you like you run the EOS program to kind of keep everybody in line for it.
- [53:15]
Will
You know, one of those levers too is recruiting. Look, it's, I, I don't, I don't have a school where like Tommy brings in 30 people and you know, a month. It's like we're not there. So recruiting is staffing for that level. You know, we're looking at going to six install crews, you know, by April, you know, having six CAs and we might bring on a seventh by July. But you know, having six install crews, you know, we have three now, that's doubling install. Right. You know, H vac is the big one. It is, it's the big one. You know, and I tell you what, the, the, one of the biggest things is being able to handle the demand when it comes and to do it the right way and not fall apart. I mean that's, that probably is one of the biggest things is when the onslaught does come in is what do you do with it? How well do you manage that on a day to day basis?
- [54:16]
Chris
Oh, 100. Yeah. Well, you listen like some of the smartest guys I've worked with and I thank goodness over all these years I've worked with some of the biggest players in this industry, the legends like, and I've been able to learn from them as well. And it's the same thing, like if they all say the same thing, it must be true. Like they didn't just get lucky. And you can take, you can take big chunks of market share in the summer if you can keep going and you can actually execute and you know, most people will pull back. You know, you pull back on marketing because we're already busy. I get that. And where are they going? To pump money into which season. Shoulder season, probably because you're trying to make up the gap. Guess what? Cost per lead goes up in cost. Fleet actually goes up in shoulder season and it's lower in peak season. So what they figured out is, how can I keep going and take bigger chunks of share when it's busy? Well, you don't. You don't do it when it's already in the season. You've planned for it. Well, then the problem is, well, how do I sustain the staff and the head count in the shoulder season? Well, you better have planned for it. Right? There is business and shoulder season. You just got to know how to go get it. But I say, yeah, go ahead.
- [55:27]
Will
No, we've done very well. I tell you what, we didn't do well the first two years. This year. Last year was better. This year, dude, we've been like. People are like, we've been. We've been doing very well. And I'll tell you how we focus on. We sell a lot of memberships, right? I have a person in here who's a membership specialist. We do a membership hotline. We really, like, try to really curate the relationship with the members, get out to our members. And that's created a lot of opportunity for us. And we're still getting demand. I mean, it's, you know, it's cold outside. We. We've had a great month so far. It's December. So, like, you know, look, you want to keep your. From what I see, I want to keep my ear to the ground of, like, you know, I try not to get caught up in the political and whatever and stuff like that. I mean, look, I know those things. Do they have an effect?
- [56:21]
Chris
Right? Yes.
- [56:22]
Will
But that doesn't mean we can't be successful. Right? Like, it does. I do not believe it. You know, especially, like, look, are we offering financing? How quick are we getting to our customer? How are we communicating to our customer? What's the experience in, like, always improving that, right? How are we keeping our members happy? How are we keeping our member retention rate? Because we struggle before with selling memberships and losing them two months later, you know, because the members is what feeds the business to be steady all year, coupled in with the demand and everything like that. That's where I think you're. You'd be six. And then keeping that communication with the customers all year long.
- [57:03]
Chris
Yeah, I, I'm just taking a couple notes. You said I'm. There's no way I'm going to get through the rest of these questions. We're already like, close to now. No, no, it's good.
- [57:10]
Will
Part two is coming soon.
- [57:12]
Chris
It's. Yeah, man, you gotta work memberships. One of the best people who ever built a business off memberships is Jamie D. Domenico down in Florida. He was on here a long time ago. Sold a wrench. Great dude, man. He. I remember he would talk about how they maxed out their memberships. It was so brilliant. The. I wanna, I wanna talk about your recruiting real quick. And I'm gonna jump to the last question to kind of tie this thing up in a. In a pretty little bow is you. What I love about recruiting, Chad loves recruiting. Peterman loves recruiting because it's like, it's like a sale. It's just a different type of sale, right? You're trying to sell, but, but this is such a talent game, right? To scale. You gotta have like a player talent to really, really scale and trust. And, and so, like, the hunt for that is fun. Today, Rhino has an exceptionally strong leadership team. Like, we have recruited some great, great talent who weren't looking. Weren't looking. That's like the fun ones to win when you go and find the person who wasn't looking and you get them and we got them and, and it's exciting to see them in action. This last week when we did our leadership. Leadership retreat. To watch them all like, working together is like one of the coolest freaking feelings, man. You know, like, to see that happening, I'm like, I'm just gonna sit here and observe because I don't even. They don't even need me. Like, this is fantastic. You know, their. But I love that part of the hunt and I know that Chad loves it too. And I'll tell you, you mentioned Gaynor, obviously, one of my close buddies, you know, who was a massive plumber who added H vac. He fumbled his way through too, until it finally took off. Stay close to Aaron. And if, you know, obviously Aaron's, like I said, he's a close friend of mine, that's an easy one for me. But if you already have a connection with those guys now, if not, let me know. Obviously Chad knows his too. And you got a good. You got. You already connected the chat. Yeah, but let me, let me, let me ask two easy, quick two questions. The first one's going to be. Is going to be easy. The second one, I'm curious to hear what your answer is. The first one's simple and it's. What's the end goal for you? And if there's not an end Goal, then just kind of tell me directionally, where are you headed? You trying to get to something? Like if, if it's a number, cool. If it's something else, cool. What is it? Like, where are you trying to go? You're 41, I'm assuming you don't want to work to, you know, 60. I'm out at 50. Regardless, I'm out at 50. I'll just play with my investments. I got four more years of like, keep grinding my ass off, then I'm done. Maybe I'm an entrepreneur, so we'll see. But probably. But do you have something like a North Star where you're headed?
- [59:46]
Will
You know, in eos, they. I couldn't look at a 10 year. 10 years is hard to look at.
- [59:52]
Chris
Super hard. Yeah, I agree. Hard.
- [59:53]
Will
But we have a five year old. Yeah. That we place and doing 8 million in EBITDA and 40. 40 million top line. Right. I'll talk about five years. I will say, you know, look, I, I get approached a lot. You know, we're in a. The DMV is like the top five competitive areas in the country from what I've been told. Right. It's a great market to be. There's really, there's a lot of, there's a lot of great customers. There's a ton of potential around here. Our H Vac is still. I think we're. There's a lot of private equity brands around here. Big, big ones. Right. And I think we are in a position where we are privately owned right now. And that is a good sales tool as well. And that is a good marketing and promotional tool as well. And we're kind of leaning on that this year, you know. You know, I, look, if something does happen, I want people that helped get the company here to be, to be taken care of as well. Like, I'm not a stay small, keep it all kind of person, you know, not at all. You know. And you know, I know what I'm good at. I know what I'm not good at. And honestly, that's a lot of things in this business where people are way, way, way better than I am, you know, But I will say 40 million, 8 million. I'd like to be doing 20 net profit. Honestly, the 20 above the 40 would be, you know, which I think we'll get there next year. Close to it. And I don't know, you know, I, you know what I. And, and I'm gonna assume you're probably already doing this now if I did something because I've talked To people that have done it. And they were miserable because they didn't have a second. They didn't have a second chapter, a second plan, you know? Yeah. If something, if something did like that happen, I need to make sure that I have it. And I understand money can do this, but money doesn't buy purpose. If you don't know you know it. I'm not. Look, I don't play golf.
- [62:07]
Chris
Right.
- [62:08]
Will
Could I play golf? Okay. Yeah. Get in there. I like, I like doing things. I like building things. That's where I'm learning about myself, you know?
- [62:16]
Chris
Yeah.
- [62:18]
Will
And I'd have to have a second life plan.
- [62:23]
Chris
Listen, it's okay to not have all this figured out too. And you're just kind of like, you know, building and going. Yeah. You know, I think back to me being at 41, you know, five years ago, that was 2020. And honestly, I was like reinvigorated by all of it. Like when, when Covid hit, I was in the perfect position to execute for sure. And because I'd had the tenure in the trades and I understood and I've had like, I was in the perfect position and I was having fun and I didn't even think of bringing on a private equity partner in 2020. Me wasn't even on my radar to do that or that I could, that I could even do it or how to use it. Like, I just didn't know. And, and so I like the building and the growing and then the seeing the outcome part. And, and that was the same thing when I did bring on a private equity partner is to keep going. It was like, okay, cool, I get to learn this next chapter. And I've learned so much about myself and my capabilities in this last, you know, couple of years. And, and that's why I'm like. But I do have in my head 50s, like 50's it for me, you know, I'm. I mean, I'm done at 50 of doing the day to day grind, you know, And I'm set on that. Like, does that mean I'm not going to have businesses? No, I have investments in businesses and I like that I'm running the day to day the business and I enjoy those things and I enjoy creating relationships out of this stuff. And, and when I leave, I want to leave. And people be like, yeah, man, Chris did this. Right? You know, like, and, and that makes me feel good. Right. Just taste people's mouths being a good dude. So. So let's finish off with this, bro. It's gonna be a great Question. I'm excited to hear your answer.
- [64:02]
Will
Okay.
- [64:06]
Chris
What do you think your mom would say about the man that you've become today?
- [64:13]
Will
I. Yeah, I don't.
- [64:16]
Chris
Have you sat and thought about that?
- [64:20]
Will
No.
- [64:20]
Chris
Yeah. Dude, I'm telling you, it's so important to reflect on stuff like that. Like, to. To, like, guys like us that. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go. All we're doing is still trying to. There's still that little hole.
- [64:31]
Will
Oh, yeah, it's still there, buddy.
- [64:33]
Chris
But you. But you think about. It's so important to. To stop and reflect on what you've accomplished and what you've done and get that, like, feeling from it. And, like, you pull from that when stuff gets hard, too, and. And think about this. Like, I. I think, you know, my dad passed away at 49.
- [64:50]
Will
Yeah.
- [64:51]
Chris
You know, and he didn't get to see any of this, like, nothing that I've accomplished, like, zero, you know, on earth. And. And I know, like I told you, my dad been proud of me no matter what, so, like, it's kind of hard because, like, I couldn't really do much wrong to him.
- [65:09]
Will
Yeah. But.
- [65:09]
Chris
But you think about, you know, you just wonder. I have this thought on what your mom would think about you based on what you've accomplished, you know, but you obviously, personally, you know. You know what you. What. You know, what you've done, what you've accomplished, the things you do and who you are as a human being and what your heart is. So I'm asking, what do you think your. Your mom says to the man that you've become now?
- [65:31]
Will
I. I think she would be very proud. I think she'd be extremely proud, especially with the relationship that I repaired with my father, who I speak to every single day, and he's not in the business, and the type of father that I'm trying to be every day and husband to my wife. I. I do think she would be very proud, to be quite honest.
- [65:55]
Chris
Good for you, bro. Yeah, I don't. That's what I'm saying.
- [65:58]
Will
Like, I don't really. I. I know that sounds crazy. I just, you know, maybe it's one of those things where I still am not proud of myself. I'm not the pat on the back kind of guy, you know, I'm just not.
- [66:11]
Chris
I'm always.
- [66:12]
Will
Whatever.
- [66:13]
Chris
I can tell you, I can honestly relate.
- [66:15]
Will
Thank you for asking me that. Thank you.
- [66:18]
Chris
You're welcome. I really kind of wanted to. To try and, like, give you that.
- [66:23]
Will
After the camera turns off, I'm probably gonna cry In a corner I tried.
- [66:26]
Chris
Was trying to give you that moment.
- [66:29]
Will
I appreciate, I'm trying to hold it together, Chris.
- [66:32]
Chris
I get it, man. I get it. And, but that's why I asked that question is I wanted to give you that moment. And it is, it is important too to reflect on, you know, you gotta walk down memory lane a bit, dude, because you get to see the end result of all the, everything that you've been through and where you sit today knowing you still got part of the journey to go. Yeah, like in a lot of ways you could say you did it. You did it, dude. A. A seventeen million dollar business is a very, very good business. Very, very good business. A ten million dollar business. Very, very good business. Like, let's not gloss over these numbers. Like, I know these are the cute. You know how many people do that? Like so. But it is important, I believe, because our brains go back to certain feelings, right. And pull from different moments in our lives that have created feelings. That's what also creates some of the, that we do. It's important for you, as you scale to 40, to be able to reflect on what you did to 24, 25, wherever you end up. Like, but 17, like, just remember that. And, and I think it's important for you to have that, which is why I wanted to ask you that, that question.
- [67:49]
Will
So that's a great question. I really, really appreciate that.
- [67:53]
Chris
Well, you're welcome. Listen, I appreciate you, you, you coming on here, giving me time. I appreciate you waiting on me. I know I had to shift this around.
- [67:58]
Will
Yeah, dude, you're good, man. I get it. It's all good. It was, it was a pleasure. I was very humbled to be asked. I really do appreciate it very much.
- [68:05]
Chris
Yeah, you're welcome. And I appreciate you being a listener and I'm excited, man, one that we got to connect to that I get to watch your journey from here, you know, and, and I think I actually owed you an email, now that I think about it. For, for Rhino X. I probably, I don't think I ever sent that to you, did I? You didn't.
- [68:20]
Will
But if you could, I would welcome that for sure.
- [68:22]
Chris
When I welcome that. Okay, listen, when I leave here, I'm going to go straight to my office and I'm going to send you that email because otherwise I'll forget again.
- [68:32]
Will
Dude, that's why I didn't take it. I was like, dude, I'm the same. I get it, I get it.
- [68:36]
Chris
Well, listen, bro, congratulations on building a good business and what you're doing and turning, like, things around, taking a shitty situation and, and making something fantastic out of it. It's a great example for people to hear. I'm glad I got to share that story for you and, and, and to our listeners. I mean, like, I love being able to share stories. Like, Will, it is. It's always cool to kind of hear adversity. Everybody wants to hear, like, it's cool to talk about the good shit. Everybody wants to hear the batshit and how'd you get through it and let you know what's the things that you fix. And there's so much power in that and there's so much relatability to it, right? There's. Sometimes it's not relatable to talk about how big of a business you are because they're not there, but the journey you can absolutely relate to and that, that can motivate you and move you. And so to the listeners, let. Maybe let that motivate you to get you to wherever your goal is in 2026. Like, you can get through anything if you got the right perspective and you just take action and you just go. And if you don't know, you go and you go and connect with somebody who can teach you. You went to, you know, when. Went to Terry, he learned from Terry. Terry's a great human being, and I would highly recommend doing anything with him. Like, he's a fantastic guy. But if it's not Terry, pick a group. They're out there. Find a guy, find a group of people, Reach out to another, reach out to Chad, reach out to Gainer, reach out to Tommy, reach out to me, reach out to whoever will connect you with somebody to get you down that path. Keep listening to the podcast, but do something right, because that's.
- [70:01]
Will
Can I say something real quick?
- [70:03]
Chris
Sure can, man.
- [70:04]
Will
Look, I never give up. And if I can do it, anybody can do it, because there is nothing special. Like, I mean, coming from what I bet, if I can do it, anybody can do it for sure.
- [70:18]
Chris
That's the, that's the perfect way to close, bro. So to our listeners, you ain't got to do everything, but damn it, you got to do something. No. Zero days.