Why 99% of Salespeople Fail -Here’s the $42M Sales Process That Actually Works with Weldon Long

Summary

Podcast Summary: To The Point - Home Services Podcast

Episode Title: Why 99% of Salespeople Fail - Here’s the $42M Sales Process That Actually Works with Weldon Long
Release Date: February 25, 2025
Host/Author: RYNO Strategic Solutions
Guest: Weldon Long (Wally)

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of To The Point - Home Services Podcast, host Chris and co-host Chad Peterman welcome Weldon Long, affectionately known as Wally, a seasoned entrepreneur with a remarkable journey from adversity to success. Wally shares his insights on why most salespeople fail and unveils his proven sales process that led him to build and sell a $42 million company.

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Wally's Inspiring Journey

Overcoming Adversity ([09:55] – [16:02])

Wally opens up about his tumultuous past, discussing his multiple incarcerations totaling 13 years. He recounts his transformation during his time in prison, emphasizing the pivotal moment in 1996 when his father's passing drove him to change his life.

"I saw myself as a first-class piece of shit and made a decision to change the course of my life." ([16:02])

He highlights the importance of personal responsibility and the realization that blaming external factors only hinders growth. Wally's dedication to self-education through books like Stephen Covey's "Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" and Tom Hopkins' sales manuals played a crucial role in his redemption and subsequent success.

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The Power of Mindset and Personal Responsibility

Developing a Resilient Mindset ([16:47] – [20:49])

Wally delves deep into the significance of mindset in overcoming obstacles. He introduces the CPA acronym—Cause, Permit, Allow—to illustrate how individuals contribute to their own circumstances.

"If we understand that we are responsible, then we start seeking out the answers through literature, podcast, educating ourselves, however that happens." ([20:49])

He shares a poignant conversation with his father, emphasizing that as long as one is alive, there's always a chance for change and improvement.

Finding Meaning in Suffering ([30:21] – [33:55])

Drawing inspiration from Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning", Wally explains how finding significance in suffering can make adversity bearable and even transformative.

"When you can find significance in the suffering, when you can find meaning in the pain, that's when you can get through anything." ([30:21])

Wally connects this philosophy to business, illustrating how embracing challenges can lead to personal and professional growth.

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A Proven Sales Process for Success

Fundamental Sales Principles ([22:04] – [27:05])

Wally outlines his core sales process, stressing that despite technological advancements, the fundamentals remain unchanged:

1. Build the Relationship
2. Investigate the Prospect's Problems
3. Solve Those Problems
4. Ask for the Order

"The fundamentals are the same since we've been trading Camels, the pyramids; it's the same stuff." ([22:10])

He emphasizes the integration of mindset with these sales fundamentals, arguing that a resilient mindset coupled with consistent execution guarantees success.

Handling Objections Effectively ([34:18] – [40:22])

Wally addresses common sales objections such as "It costs too much," "I need three bids," and "I saw this on the internet." He introduces the metaphor of the "sales hallway," where salespeople must proactively address these objections before reaching the closing door.

"Have those conversations. Don't wait for... if you handle it at the very end, then you're truly selling." ([38:46])

Chad and Wally discuss the importance of addressing objections early to prevent defensive reactions at the end of the sales pitch.

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Minimizing Risk with Strategic Guarantees

The One-Year Buyback Guarantee ([47:42] – [53:33])

Wally explains his innovative approach to minimizing customer risk through a one-year buyback guarantee. Drawing parallels with retail giants like Walmart's hassle-free return policy, he illustrates how reducing perceived risk can significantly increase sales conversions.

"The level of risk in the purchasing process... If the risk is low, it makes it very easy to say yes." ([48:08])

He shares a historical anecdote about Baron von Herrmann, the pioneer of the buyback guarantee, and discusses its relevance in today's contracting industry.

Implementation and Success ([53:33] – [56:04])

Wally reveals that implementing the buyback guarantee across his multiple companies has not only boosted sales but also served as a powerful marketing tool. This strategy positions his businesses as trustworthy and customer-centric, thereby enhancing credibility and loyalty.

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Closing Thoughts and Final Insights

The Importance of Execution ([55:44] – [58:29])

Chris and Wally reaffirm that while knowledge and strategies are essential, effective execution is paramount. They discuss the prevalence of "gurus" who teach without practicing their methods, emphasizing the necessity of implementing learned strategies to achieve tangible results.

Encouragement to Listeners ([58:29] – [62:54])

As the podcast concludes, Wally and the hosts encourage listeners to embrace personal responsibility, maintain a resilient mindset, and consistently execute proven sales processes. Wally extends an invitation to his upcoming events, highlighting opportunities for further learning and networking.

"Success is guaranteed. It's just a matter of time." ([27:05])

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Wally on Building Resilience:

  "The better you can deal with difficulty and uncomfortable situations, the more successful you're going to be." ([16:47])

• On Personal Responsibility:

  "I live by a simple acronym, CPA. I cause, permit, or allow everything in my life that happens to happen." ([17:22])

• Sales Hallway Metaphor:

  "If you focus on your process and the homeowner sees your price and says something like, Holy shit, I figured you’re going to afford this company, then you've done your job." ([40:13])

• Minimizing Risk:

  "The risk should be on my shoulder as the contractor, not the homeowners." ([48:31])

• On Execution Over Knowledge:

  "It's not a knowledge problem. It's an implementation problem." ([55:44])

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Conclusion

Weldon Long's candid recounting of his past challenges and subsequent triumphs offers invaluable lessons for sales professionals in the home services industry. His emphasis on mindset, personal responsibility, and a structured sales process provides a blueprint for overcoming common sales pitfalls. By integrating these principles, contractors and salespeople can enhance their effectiveness, build stronger client relationships, and ultimately drive substantial business growth.

Listeners are encouraged to apply Wally's insights, attend his events for deeper learning, and adopt a disciplined approach to sales that balances resilience with strategic action.

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Upcoming Events Mentioned:

• Owner's Event: Featuring Gary Ellix and Steve Shallenberger on leadership.
• Sales Event: A two-day event for service technicians and sales personnel to elevate performance.

For more information and to register, visit the show notes or contact Weldon Long directly.

Transcript

[A]

A lot of my clients started selling to private equity. I'm like, hey, I thought I was making a lot of money. I was making millions of dollars a year consulting speaking. It was like, holy shit, these guys are making some real money, right? So I decided to get back in the contracting side in 2019. Spent five years building that company during COVID So just the timing was perfect. Drove that company from $0 to 42 million in 60 months. Sold that to Apex. As you mentioned, great organization. Do a lot of work for them now and developing their other companies. This is to the Point a Rhino experience. Fully one of the top home services, marketing and operations podcasts. Cutting through the bullshit and getting to the point.

[B]

Hey, what's up? To the point listeners, it's your boy Chris, along with my beautiful, handsome co host, the ron Collieringer himself, Mr. Chad Peterman. Chad, what's up, buddy?

[C]

What's going on? Never heard that, Ron. Collie ringer. That's good. Appreciate that.

[B]

I actually had another one for you because I love to give Chad as many nicknames as I can, Wally, and that way we can make a nice little compilation of it at the end of the year. And I had another one down and I was trying to figure out where are you actually from? And I thought you were from Beach Grove, but you're not. Your parents, or your parents from Beach Grove, but you are not. So yeah, Beach Grove. Badass. Didn't quite work out.

[C]

Yeah, you know, I mean, just south of there. I was technically born in a hospital in Beach Grove Grove. However, I was. I was raised in Indianapolis, which is not too far away.

[B]

Well, that's different. I could come up with a bunch of other things. Anyhow, regardless, happy, happy to have you on this. And another attendance for another one consecutive podcast, baby. Dude, we are gonna have such a great episode today because I have an old friend on here, somebody who I've known from back in the day, knew me back in the brickyard marketing days, know. And you know, ironically, all roads kind of ran through Indy there too, because we met because of relationship that we both had with carrier Corporation. So. But before I get into that, I don't want to let our listeners down, Chad. You know, I don't want to let our listeners down. So I know they're expecting from me a few dad jokes.

[C]

Well, I hope they don't grow to expect it because it is painful every single episode. But go ahead, let them rip. I know what you're thinking.

[B]

That's subjective. That's subjective and that's very pessimistic okay, so I'm gonna. I'll throw a couple of them out here. I think you're gonna like how I tie the last one in. Okay. All right. Hey, Wally, go ahead and bear with me, buddy. What do you call a shoe made of a banana?

[A]

I think I know this one. Do you Say it A slipper. You.

[B]

It's a slipper. You're the first one to get one. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. See? Somebody else appreciates my affinity for dad jokes. Good. Why did the bicycle fall over?

[C]

It was tired.

[B]

Very close. Oh, it was too tired.

[A]

Too tired. Hey.

[B]

Damn, you guys are on one today. This is gonna be a great episode. Last one, Wally, you're gonna pick up on this one. How do you deal with a fear of speed bumps?

[A]

Crawl over them.

[B]

You slowly get over it. And speaking of fear, our guest wrote the Upside of Fear, one of two books, the other being the Power of Consistency. You have three books, the Power of Consistency, and the other one was Consistency Selling.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Okay, I got them. All right. But I think back in the day when you and I met, it was the Power of Consistency. It was the book of the time, which is New York Times bestseller. And the Upside of fair was New York Book Festival winner, I think is what. One of the titles you had on that book.

[A]

It was the best autobiography at New York Book Festival. The best. Best autobiography at Writer's digest, I think 2009, 2010, when it came out. And then, of course, the Power of Consistency, which you mentioned. New York Times, Wall Street Journal, bestseller, Consistency Selling was Amazon. Oh, got it right there. Right on the.

[C]

Right on the shelf.

[B]

Chad, show on the book. Look at you.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

Awesome brown nose.

[A]

And it's good to see you, man. It's really good to see you, buddy. You too. Hey, listen, this.

[B]

I was reminiscing the last time I saw you. One of the first times, Chad, I saw Wally speak on stage. And when we were talking about this text message, he would. He would talk about his motorcycle in a box thingy. I'm not gonna go down this whole path. But he had a drum set on stage, too, and he was, like, beating.

[A]

The outdoor drums, playing.

[B]

I was like, what in the hell? Like, this dude's up there playing. Playing drums. He's talking about coming from prison. And, like, I think you got your. The call from your dad two weeks before he passed away.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, man. You bringing back the memories now, man.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it was.

[A]

It was a.

[B]

Like, what was a super cool story, man. You were like a OG to kind of come in and do sales training. He's a phenomenal speaker. And I was like, I was just starting to do public speaking and I was like, holy, this dude is like next level good speaker. And I was like, okay, I'm sitting here taking notes on like, what he's doing and what I'm doing. And so I learned a couple of tricks from you, Ali, as I was, man.

[A]

It's, it's, it's been fun watching you. It's been. Believe it or not, it's been over 15 years. I think I met you in 08 or 09 somewhere around there when you were first getting started with Brickyard. And I had forgotten about the Brickyard because I've always thought of you about in terms of Rhino. But it's, it's just watching what you've done due to the last 15, 16 years, been extraordinary. I follow you very closely on social media. You do some cool stuff for your team. You've helped a lot of companies like, come up and, and you know, make some money and grow their companies. And you've just been a solid guy for a lot, a lot of years. And it's just really good to catch up with you again, man.

[B]

I feel the same way. I appreciate you saying that, Wally. Yo. What's, what's interesting is it kind of came full circle a bit. One of my best friends in high school was. It went. He was, he was, he went to prison for like nine years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, and this is in that time frame that you and I met. And I gave him, I gave him the. Your. I gave him the power of consistency book. But the only thing he did consistent was go back to prisons. It didn't quite work out for him that well.

[A]

I did that for a while too. There's hope for him. I did that for a while.

[B]

That was back in like 2010 or something like 2009 maybe, I think. You gave me, you gave me a.

[A]

A book.

[B]

And I gave it to him hoping to God it would like, change, but it didn't work for everybody.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because you also talk about mindset, right? Maybe he needed to shoot a little bit, but then you. But so for our listeners who maybe don't know who, who Wally is, you're in for a phenomenal treat. Super sharp guy. Built, sold home services businesses up in Colorado, which is the first place I met him. Not, not one. A couple of them. And he' think you, you made your last exit just the end of last year to. With Apex as your Partner, great organization and so. But tons of talent, tons of skill. Like I said, kind of an OG in like the sales and sales training model. Like the, like I remember you putting on classes for like BFAD dealers and CFAD dealers or I think it was like one of the two. And back in the day you were Speaking to like FedEx, Wells Fargo, home Depot, like all these things. And, and I remember one thing that stood out before I actually started reading books, not that I read a lot of them now is you had like endorsements from Stephen Covey, from Tony Robbins, from Tom Hopkins, like, like, don't get much better in that sales space than like these guys who you're supporting you. So, you know, I thought a lot about it and then what's cool is that I saw that you're doing and, and I'll give you a little bit of plug here too. I think it's worth doing because I didn't realize you're still doing this shit. Was you have like a, A sales training or I think, or maybe it's a. A sales training slash biz prep, you know, or maybe going to market training. That's in the Broadmoor beautiful resort up in Colorado Springs. And I think at the end of March. Is that right?

[A]

Yeah, I think, I think it's still the third or fourth week of March. I happen to live four blocks from the Broadmoor, so I don't. I. I refuse to travel very much anymore. Chris, back in the day, you and I both know what that's like. Before COVID in 2018, 2019, I was traveling 200,000 miles a year between the speaking, the consulting and that kind of stuff. And I didn't realize how much I hated it until Covid hit. And I got to be at home with my wife every night. I'm like, hey, gee, I got a pretty cool wife. I got a pretty cool house. And so after Covid, it kind of changed our whole business like it did for everybody. And so now I do my consulting, I do my speaking, but we bring people to us. So, yes, we've got an event in March for owners that are looking maybe to get ready to sell. Gonna have Gary Ellix out, Steve Shallenberger on leadership, got some great speakers, and. And then in April, we're doing a two day event for, for service techs and sales guys to kind of get them ready and, and elevate. Kind of elevate their performance.

[B]

Is that something that I hope we're able to promote at the end of this thing?

[A]

Now we have to Promote it. I think it's sold out, but we'll bring some more chairs in. Hey, hey, check this out. So in the owner's event, we'll probably do it for the sales event too. We're doing a VIP thing after. After the first day, and we go to my. My car barn, and we're gonna have cigars and whiskey and. And. And there's a lot of cool cars there. Yeah. And so we're gonna be able to admire some cool cars. Talk about cars, talk about selling, talk about cigars and whiskey and. Yeah, this is gonna be a lot of fun.

[B]

Well, I'm pissed I'm not there because those are things I'm all things I'm interested in.

[A]

Well, you're welcome to show up anytime, my friend.

[B]

I might have to do it. That's easy. Let up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, listen, okay, so I'm gonna get into some of this stuff because I want to make. Spend as much time as we can on you kind of doing your thing, Wally, because it's. I know you're gonna have a lot of stuff to talk through, and I want Chad to be able to kind of ask things from his perspective. But one of the things I was talking about early on is, you know, Wally spent like a decade or something in prison. I think he rolled out in 2002 or 2003.

[A]

13 years total.

[B]

13 years. So 2003 came out. I remember you telling a joke back in the day about being married for X amount of years, but it was to different people. Some like that.

[A]

I don't know why I remember that. It was pretty funny. I've been married like 30 years if you count all my marriages. I'll stack them in the end. It's like over 30 years.

[B]

So your rolls out in 2003. Broke, homeless, you know, like, you got.

[A]

To have thick skin to come on this podcast. I'm seeing real quick here. Like, fortunately for me, I got lizard skin because there's, like pulling no punches. Yano's like, on it, like.

[B]

But listen, this is all because I think the world of you, man. And you've done a. You've done a lot of really awesome stuff. And I want these people to hear you and learn some of the things and they'll get a little taste of what they can learn by getting together with you. And so, yeah, I'm a bust your balls because it's been a minute. So why don't we do this real quick for the listeners. We'll do like a quick, high level background just to kind of Set the tone for those who don't have any.

[A]

Idea who you are.

[B]

Which by the way, you know, we have a, you know, you've seen how the trades has progressed. We have a lot, a lot of new contractors out there kind of building, doing their thing and they might not know who Wally is. And I want them to, when they will get off here, be like, oh yeah, I see why this dude was an og. So. So maybe just share a little bit of your background like the come up, you know, be specific on some of the things, you know, matter to these contractors to set the tone on credibility.

[A]

Yeah. You know, and you say OG. I'm in my 60s now, so I guess officially I qualify as OG61, baby.

[B]

He's on that senior citizen menu.

[A]

I'm getting the USAA or not the usa, but the ARP or whatever, solicitations all the time. It's hell getting old, Chris. You'll find out one day, but there's not much good about it. The only thing I've learned that's good about it is you do gain a little wisdom and a little bit of humility and you realize how fortunate you are to have the life that you have. So, yeah, my life, it's crazy. I was a 9th grade high school dropout. I was a knucklehead. I was a punk and a thug running the streets in 1987. Hard to believe that was 40 years ago, I guess. Yeah, I was high on cocaine and pulled a gun on a guy. Got sentenced to Penitentiary for 10 years. Did about. I was 23 years old. First time I walked into penitentiary and scared to death. Had never been in jail before, you know, had come from a good family frankly, and just made a lot of bad decisions on my own as a young person. Went to the penitentiary for about four and a half years. In 1991 they let me out and I walked out at 27 years old, I guess, and had started the process. Chris, you and I understand so much how important the mindset is. And so I had started the very negative mindset that, that I was a. I was a loser. I was a convict. In your early 20s trying to figure out who you are. And apparently I was just a loser convict. And I got out at 27. I made it about 18 months. I went back to prison a second time for a couple of years on some gun charges. Got out a second time at 30 years old and just defining myself as a loser. Just, just a knucklehead, you know. POS and 32 years old. I was back in prison a third time, this time on federal mail, money laundering and mail fraud charges for seven years. So I did a total of 13 years from 1987 to 2003 of that 15 or 16 year span. 13 of those years walking, walking prison yards and. But as you know, Chris, something like crazy happened in 1996. I was back in prison that third time. We'll go into as much detail as you want to about this, but my father passed away, as you mentioned, and I just made a decision. I was 32 years old. I saw myself what I really and truly was, just a first class piece of shit. And I made a decision to change the course of my life. And I had many, many years to figure it out. So I had this master plan to start reading books and find out what really successful people do. And I started doing that. You mentioned Stephen Covey. That was the first book I picked up. Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and spent the next seven years, like, educating myself. Like basic stuff like reading, writing, arithmetic, philosophy, history. I spent seven years educating myself on business and sales. You mentioned Tom Hopkins. I learned how to sell from Tom Hopkins through his books while I was in prison. And in 2003, I walked out of the joint at 39 years old and to a homeless shelter. But I had, I was a man on fire, man. I had learned a lot and decided to make this change in my life. I got a job. Fortunately, I tell people I love this industry, the residential services, because it was the industry that picked me up and dusted my dumb ass off and gave me a shot at a real life. I get out after six months looking for a job. I get a, a job as a comfort advisor for an H Vac company. Don't know the first thing about H Vac, but I could sell, I could communicate, I could build relationships. Did that for a year, opened my own company. My first company grew that $20 million. So sold that in 2010, I think, and spent 12, 14 years like you were road warrior out there, building your business, building your brand, and did that for a lot of years. Back in 2017, 18, a lot of my clients started selling to private equity. I'm like, hey, I thought I was making a lot of money. I was making millions, millions of dollars a year consulting speaking. It was like, holy shit, these guys are making some real money, right? So I decided to get back in the contracting side in 2019. Spent five years building that company during COVID So just the timing was perfect. Drove that company from $0 to $42 million. In 60 months. Sold that to Apex, as you mentioned. Great organization. Do a lot of work for them now and developing their other companies. And Gary, Alex and I have half a dozen other companies that we own now and we build, and our thing is we go and build them, we sell them, we build them, we sell them. And it's, you know, I'm pretty good at the, at the startup thing. I'm not the long term operator. That is not my, not my jams at all. But I love the first couple of years, the excitement of building it. And fortunately for us, this industry, there's a lot of money out there that you build that company, they're happy to buy it. And so that's, that's kind of the quick overview. And I can talk about the lessons I learned and, and what happened in more detail depending on where you want to go with this conversation. But it's been, it's been a, it's been a crazy, crazy life and I'm happy to be on this end of it. This half of it's much, much better than the first half.

[B]

That was a hell of a job at high level. Like that was. You've done that, you've done it.

[A]

I've done that a couple of times. You crammed a ton of shit into.

[B]

Like a quick little spin. That's impressive.

[C]

I've got one, I've got, I've got a question for you and just be interested to get your perspective. So I think as, as we develop leaders and organizations, the, the goal would be for them to did coming out of prison pick up those books, learn, grow, become better. Why do you think it's so difficult for a lot of people to take that step? You know, obviously you kind of had the, the prison like, hey, this is the, this is as bad as it can get. I need to, you know, figure it out. But like, why do you feel like people maybe have trouble taking that step?

[A]

Yeah, well, first of all, I should probably, you know, I know you guys hope with some dad jokes I didn't tell you my dad joke. They're a little different from Chris's. But when, when my son was a teenager, knew about my whole background, one day he said, dad, we're like, were you gay for the stay? I said, what do you mean? He's like, well, you gay when you're in prison? I said, well, of course not, son. I said, now some of the men I had sex with, they were gay. They were gay. So there's my, my dad joke's a little different because of My background. That's actually a great question. And it's about personal responsibility. And, and here's the thing I've learned. You can edit that out. I'm sure you've got good editors. You got.

[B]

No, that's staying. That would just caught me off guard. It's good. I've actually heard you say that joke before too.

[A]

I forgot. You've heard them all over 15 or 16 years, buddy. Yeah, it's a great question though. It's about personal responsibility. And I think the reason that some people don't engage in, develop themselves reading, learning. You know, there's that old quote we've all heard, that the man, the woman who doesn't read, is no better off than the man, the woman who cannot read. And I remember reading that when I was in prison that last time in 1996. I'm like, okay, this is my responsibility and to educate myself. And then what happens is that as life, as you get older and you mature, the responsibility. It's so easy to blame the external things. The weather in our business, the competition. In my case, it was blaming the judges, the prosecutors, you know, the, the snitches, all that kind of stuff. And one day I realized that I had a role to play in all of it. And I think the height of maturity, spiritual personal development is when you can see your role in everybody you're mad at. I've been sick last week or so, but when I started seeing like the ex wife, for example, I was angry at her. She did this, she did that. When I could see my role in what she was doing. In other words, if I hadn't left her alone with, with her kids, maybe she wouldn't have found another boyfriend. When I could start to see my role in everything I was complaining about, that's when I had a real shot at building the life that I wanted. Because most people spend time blaming external factors. And here's the thing I learned. If, if, let's take. We talk about sales and business growth, right? That's all the business that we're in. If you got a comfort advisor or technician, they're blaming the weather, they're blaming the cheap competition, they're blaming the shitty leaves, they're blaming their boss, they're blaming the ex wife. If they are all responsible for my shitty performance, then that means they all have to change before my life gets better. And what's the likelihood of that happening? That's not happening. When we can see our role in all the conditions that we've created that we are Personally responsible, we contributed. I live by a simple acronym, cpa. I cause, permit or allow everything in my life that happens to happen. When a human being can get that point of maturity that they have a role, there's no one to blame except ourselves then I think that's what fuels a desire to get better. And that's when I started picking up the books and saying I'm responsible. It's not my mom's fault, it's not my dad's fault, not the judge's fault, not the ex wife's fault, it's my fault. And the only way. You know, Chris had mentioned earlier the last conversation I had with my dad two weeks before he died. My dad told me, he said, you know son, your life could be worse. And I said, dad, how in the hell could my life be worse? I'm a three time loser. I'm a ninth grade high school dropout. I had fathered a son when I was out on parole. So I had a three year old son that I'd abandoned. I said, how can my life be any worse? And my dad said, well son, you could be dead and you're still breathing. And as long as you breathe, you got a shot to change it, but only you can do it. That was the essence of personal responsibility. I think when we all understand that we have the power to change it, then we start seeking out the answers through literature, podcast, educating ourselves, however that happens. But we have to be on that journey because we understand that we are responsible.

[B]

Yeah, I, I was actually going to bring up that conversation you had with your dad because I remember how like impactful that was at the last words that your dad said to you were, hey, at least you're still alive. So you had mentioned that, you know, when, when you came out, you, when you got out of prison, you changed that.

[A]

Well, apparently I came out with that last dad joke. I came out, that's why.

[B]

So let me clarify real quick. When you got out of prison, you talked about reading, you know, Hopkins book to learn how to sell. And you kind of came out and you sold and you were able to sell even without knowing H Vac, I'm assuming because you, you were learning it. But so there's clearly some like, like defined skills that you learn that you could still go and sell and okay, insert H Vac, insert whatever, right. Like you had learned to be able to go to market, then you probably took the time to learn and understand and do all the things to be able to be even better at it. But I think that's one thing that I've always kind of known you for is being able to grow sales organizations, like really successful sales organizations, which proved itself. Again, I did not realize you grew that last business to 42 million. I mean, shit like, I mean, that was huge. Yeah. What is it that you're going into teaching that you. Is there, I mean, is there still some of the same foundation that you use right out of the gate when you, when you came out?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Are you using the same foundational things like maybe, maybe walk the listeners and Chad and I through?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those things that you're doing that have made that, you know, them so successful.

[A]

Yeah. It's funny you say that because a number of years ago I had a salesman that was talking to a contractor who had seen me a couple of years earlier and he was trying to sell him on coming out to a live sales training event we were doing. And the guy was like, well, I've seen his stuff before. Has he got any new stuff? And I overheard this conversation and I got the phone. I'm like, no, the shit that works hasn't changed. It hasn't changed in 2000 years since we were trading Camels, the pyramid. So I'm not going to invent some new to have a new event. The same stuff that worked 2,000 years ago and two years ago works today. And you know what those four things are, Chris? Number one, build the relationship. Number two, investigate your prospects problems. Number three, solve those problems. And number four, ask for the damn order. Those are the four fundamental components of any sales process, Any sales organization, it may look a little different, but in the absence of the relationship, the investigation, the problem solving and the asking for the order, there is nothing else in sales. So the fundamentals are the same. Since we've been trading Camels, the pyramids, it's the same freaking stuff. The only element that I feel like that I've added to the industry in the last 20 years because there's a thousand guys that teach a sales process. And you know what? Every one of them will work. Every guy you know, Every guy I know, every guy Chad knows is teaching this stuff. If you run a process, consistent sales results come from a consistent sales process in a rocket science. The thing that I feel like that I've added to the industry in the last 20 years is the mindset component. So I look at the sales process as the centerpiece. Right? You have your companies, you build your companies. Doesn't matter if it's digital marketing or H vac, doesn't matter. You've got the central process of what you do for a living, how you add value to your customers lives, right? But in addition to that core process, in the H Vac world, it's a sales process or the service technician process. It's the two bookends that go around that. Number one is the mindset, right? The ability to take responsibility, the ability to thrive in the face of adversity, to prosper in the face of bullshit. To a large degree, your success in life is a reflection of how well you deal with bullshit. Because we all got bullshit to deal with and some people can't deal with bullshit. The littlest, the littlest little situation and they're like, oh, what am I going to do, right? Their car breaks down, who gives a shit, right? I mean, oh, my wife left me, who gives a shit? We all have to face challenges, some people. And I got really good at dealing with bullshit. Like, I could go to prison for years and I learned how to deal with it and it was like. I mean, people ask me, do you have regrets about your years in prison? No, I have two regrets. Number one, I left my son in a bad situation. Number two, I wasn't there when my dad died. But other than that, I got no regrets about 13 years in prison because it taught me how to deal with bullshit, right? And the better you can deal with difficulty and uncomfortable situations, the more successful you're going to be. Some people are overwhelmed by little things, right? The car breaks down, they get divorced, whatever, blah, blah, blah, they go bankrupt. Who gives a shit when you can learn to deal with massive amounts of bullshit, then success is not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And I guarantee if we went back to the years of Brickyard and everything that you've done since then with Rhino, I mean, I guarantee you, dude, you got the scars like you got the scarred. If I took your T shirt off right there, I would see the scars on your back of the bullshit you've been through personally and professionally. But it was your ability to continue hammering down, staying focused and executing despite that stuff that made you successful. Because a lot of people can't deal with it. They have some bumps in the road and they give up. Oh, I just can't do it. And that to me is the mindset, the mindset of a winner who can thrive in the face of adversity. You take that mindset, you take the process of your business, whatever that business is, and then the other bookend is consistency. Doing the shit every single day. The little Things. What did Jim Rohn say? Success in life is not about doing the extraordinary things. It's about doing the ordinary things extraordinarily well. When you can be consistent and understand, it's not about the scope of what you do, it's about the consistency with which you execute. You take that mindset, you take consistency, and the middle, you take your business process. How in the hell are you not going to be successful? Nothing can hold you back. Nothing can deter you from achieving your primary objective. If you got the right mindset, you got consistency, you got the right business process. I mean, success is guaranteed. It's just a matter of time. And that's. That's what I've learned. That's. That's like. If there's anything I've added the industry in 20 years, it's the mindset component. The sales shit's been around forever. A lot. A lot of people smarter than me develop some really great sales process. You can go back to early 90s, go back even before that. It's the mindset to execute on a consistent basis that builds champions. Yeah, you.

[B]

But you also now have. I mean, you have all that, which is great. And a lot of people who didn't go to. I mean, you use prison as your reference for. You learned how to deal with. We all deal with it at some level.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

The whole point is like, you know, once you get comfortable with knowing that you're going to deal with always, like, now you can just pl. Right through that. And I think anybody who's grown any business at scale, I mean, Chad, at some level, we know we are. We're all firefighters. Like, that's just a constant part of our role at some point. And you just know, like, that's kind of what my day is going to be. There's going to be some sort of fire I got to put out, which now doesn't hold me back. Like, I just learned how to plow through it.

[A]

But you're right.

[B]

Like, I learned a lot of that early on. But you have industry knowledge. Like, you have the. So you have the, The. The beautiful thing on. On the whole picture because you have that skill and you have the industry knowledge, and you've learned how to pair these things together to be successful, you know, in this world and still, you know, you know, today, like, so nobody can't be like, oh, Wally's OG, he sold his business back in the day. 20 million dollar company, big deal. And then you just turn around, you give 42 million bucks. Yeah.

[A]

By the Way, Chris. I feel like there's a lot of gurus out there in every corner. You guys see them? I see them every single day on the. On the Internet. Right. If they're. Listen, it's so easy to make money in our industry, in the contracting side, that if you're not doing it, it's because you don't know how. Right. So all the gurus, if they're not currently also making money on the contracting side, then they don't really got the skills to pay the bills because it's so easy to do that. Why wouldn't you do that? While I'm doing my consulting, my speaking, my teaching, why not have a contracting company over here I just sold for nearly $20 million? Why not do that on the side? I have six others we're doing the same thing with. So it's about credibility. It's about having the skills, the business skills, as you mentioned. And we could talk about what those are, because they're pretty simple, too. But the business skills are critical. And if people aren't currently doing it, if they're teaching you how to sell, they're trying to teach you how to sell or do anything else in your business. Right. But they're not currently in the contracting side. You got to ask yourself, why not? It's so freaking easy. I built this company. I don't want to say it was. It was easy. I mean, I hired some great people. I said, here's what we're doing. Go out and do it. Did it for five years, $42 million, and sold it. So why. Why wouldn't. Why wouldn't the sales guru also be in the contracting side? The only reason he's not is because he can't. Just a good question to ask yourself before you spend a bunch of money.

[B]

Yeah, well.

[C]

And I think, too, it speaks to your point about being able to handle the. Like, to me, doing it is where you cut your teeth. Like, you've got to face it head on. And I think that mindset piece is so critical because in today's day and age, you can listen to a podcast, you can get online, you can talk. Like the information, the how to do it is out there. Absolutely. You know, it's the mindset piece that's going to help you persevere and get through the tough times. Because it's not a. It's a very. I always say it's a very simple business. It's not an easy business. And I think. Yeah, the tough part is, is you've got to weather the storms. And there's a lot of external factors. But to your point, how do you deal with those external things? How do you process them? And then how do you look internally and figure out how you're going to overcome it?

[A]

And the best lesson I've ever learned with respect to that, because you're exactly 100% on point. A great book I read many, many years ago called Man Search for Meaning, written by a guy named Viktor Frankl. And Frankel was a Jewish psychiatrist that was put in the concentration camps in World War II. And during his stay, he became really interested in why could some people deal with their circumstances, right? Why could some people deal with the bullshit and others could not? And when they couldn't deal with the bullshit in the concentration camps, you know what they did? They would commit suicide. You know how they would commit suicide? They would go to the fences and put their hand on the fence and the guards would shoot them. Like, if you touch that fence, the guards were shooting you. And when people gave up, they lost hope. They lost the ability to deal with the bullshit. That's what they would do. And Frankel became very interested in why. Where some people like him, I mean, he was. He was freezing, he was starving, he was the subject of human experiments that the Nazis did on him. Like, he suffered the kind of shit most of us will never experience. If you read that book, it's like, it'll make you nauseous, the stuff they went through. But he somehow survived it. And what he learned is that when you can find significance in the suffering, when you can find meaning in the pain, that's when you can get through anything. And it's kind of like you talked about, you and Chris, you guys have had difficulty in your businesses. And I promise you, without knowing anything about your background, I know you got a very successful company, but you've learned way more from the shit that didn't work out. The failures, the struggles, and you have the successes. Like, when I'm successful at something, I'm like, I have no idea. I just got lucky. But when I fall flat on my ass, I can typically find out exactly why. And that's where I learned. So Frankl discovered that people that could find meaning and significance in the struggle, the difficulty, then they had a purpose for life. People that saw suffering strictly as random pain, random difficulty. They got depressed when they saw it as, okay, there's a lesson, what Napoleon Hill used to call the seed of equivalent benefit. When you can find the purpose and the pain, the significance and the struggle that's when you start living and you can celebrate the adversity and know that it's strengthening you. Right? I remember when I read that book. In 96, after my dad died, I had done six years in prison already. I had seven more left to go. And for the first time in my life, I started doing easy time. Because the first six years I was a fucking train wreck. I was fighting, I was struggling, I was miserable. And then one day I'm like, wow, maybe all this difficulty is going to serve some purpose one day. I didn't know exactly what it would be. Books and speaking and the stuff I've done, I didn't know exactly. But I became convinced that Viktor Frankl was right, that there would be some significance to my suffering. And you know what happened? My suffering became tolerable. I'm like, okay, this is part of the journey, this is part of my education, this is part of my learning. And I'm telling you, people think prison was crazy. The first six years of my prison was crazy. The last seven years, this will blow you away. Seven of the most peaceful years I ever had in my life. Because I knew it was going to be for something larger and bigger. And this was a temporary situation that I was needing to go through to learn those lessons. And that's what I mean by dealing with bullshit. If you can deal with it, understand there's a purpose in it. Fantastic things are going to happen in your life.

[B]

Hey, do you think that this directly translates to like, Let me just. I'm actually going to shift gears for just a second and that is into some more like tactical things, Wally, because I know I've seen you do some like live role playing stuff before. I actually sat in on one of your training sessions before back in the day and just watched it, like not the whole thing because it was like a day long thing, but I remember watching some of it and I walked in one part. You guys doing role playing?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But I was just thinking about this as you're talking and how this, like just this prepares you to, I think, be a better salesman too. Because you're ready for the. No, you're ready for, for the excuses, you're ready for the whatever, you know, to that keeps you from getting to the sale. But you know, I'd say probably some of the most common, and you guys would know better than me, but some of the most common, you know, objections that these, you know, comfort consultants running into or tech or service technicians are running into is probably the. Well, Wally, you know, I want to Think about it, you know, or. Or Wally, this costs, you know, this costs too much. So is it fair to say those are some pretty common objections?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that. And I saw on the Internet, for 50 bucks, and I need three bids. So you take the two you mentioned, the two I mentioned, and there you've got about 99% of the objections that we deal with on a. On an average service call or sales call. And the reality of that, I want to think about it, it costs too much. I need three bids. And I saw on the Internet are so easy to combat if you deal with them proactively. The problem we have in sales is that we have been trained the last 50 or 60 years and trained by a lot of the men and women that I respect, enormous respect. Brian Tracy, you mentioned Tom Hopkins, all these guys, right? And have enormous respect for them. I admire what they've done, but I think they missed it just a smidgen. They teach us to do what? To overcome these objections. When at the end. When is a homeowner the most tense, the most defensive? At the end, right? When you start asking them for 20 grand, or back in the day, 8 grand, but today it's 20 grand, right? And so the problem is not how we overcome objections, it's when we overcome objections. What I figured out 20 years ago, I was working as a comfort advisor just out of the homeless shelter. Got my first job. I'm in a bookstore, and I come across an article from a guy I'm sure you guys are very familiar with, especially down in Arizona, Robert Gialdini. He's the professor of psychology at Arizona State. Brilliant man. And he's written these books on influence and persuasion. And I remember this. He was. It was on the COVID of American Scientific Mind. And I saw this blurb. You know how they put in the front of a magazine, like, get anyone to do anything you want. And like, I was single and I was in sales. I'm like, this could be helpful to me. Get women to do what I want. Get customers do what I want, right? I was young. I was handsome back in those days. I did have not much here, but a little bit. But I started reading this article, and it just blew me away. The. The research and. And. And the. The stuff that he brought to light. The bottom line is this is the whole basis of consistency. Selling public declarations dictate future actions. You have to understand that your homeowners are having a conversation before you get there. And you know what that conversation sounds like? Honey, we're not buying tonight. We're getting a cheap price, we're getting three bids. And if you ignore the reality of that conversation happening, their public declarations to each other will drive their behavior at the end. No matter how much they love you, no matter how much they're impressed with your company. I told my wife I wasn't going to say no. So we got to go in and we got to get them to make these public declarations that are in opposite to that. I got to get them to say, yeah, price is not the most important factor. Yeah, I can let you know tonight if you're a good fit. And yeah, three bids won't really protect me. And so I developed my whole sales system around that conversation. Get them to make those public declarations. They're changing their minds, they're changing each other's minds, and basically giving them permission to say yes to you at the end. And so that's, that's the whole essence of the entire conversation. The question comes down, how do we do that? And it's actually pretty simple. As I always say, it's easy. It's a little bit easier not to do it, but it's actually pretty easy to do, to have these conversations and get them to change their minds. Otherwise, the conversation they had privately before I got there is going to drive their decision at the end. No matter how much they love me or my company, they're not going to go back on their word to each other.

[B]

And can't you. Isn't it fair to say, like, and I can't remember if I, if I learned this, where exactly I learned this. But you know, because I met you early on, I was paying attention to the things that you were, that you were talking about and teaching. But you, if you know those are the main objections that you're going to get, why not overcome those objections in the process right before you even get to, to the end? Because you know they're going to ask it, or you can at least assume they're going to ask it. And why not?

[A]

You know, it's coming. And I use the metaphor of the sales hallway, right? So I'm at the end of the hallway with my homeowners and I gotta walk up down this hallway. At the end of the hallway is a door. And if I can earn their trust and get to that final door, I earn their business, right? The problem is there's trap doors, little escape routes on the side of the hallway. Your homeowner is going to gather all the information they can, all the information they think is important, and what they think is most important is the price. When they get that final piece of information, they want to sneak out of one of the doors on the side. Not the one on the end, the doors in the side. I want to think about it. I need a cheaper price. I got to get three bids and they sneak out of these doors. The key is exactly what you just said, Chris. Close the doors proactively as you're walking by them. Right. Have those conversations. Don't wait for. If they bring up price at the end, and that's the first time you talked about it, you're screwed if they bring up three bids at the end. I want to think about it at the end. Now you sound defensive because they're on DEFCON 1. They know the close is coming. You've talked about 20,000 bucks. You got to do all that shit before. And exactly what you just said, you got to do it all beforehand. Close those doors proactively, and then you have a lot less stress at the end.

[B]

That's like, been sales for, like, that's what some of.

[A]

That's the best sales.

[B]

Like, you, You.

[A]

You know it's coming.

[B]

You talk about it, and that's part of the conversation. Yeah, you're right, because once you get.

[A]

To the end, it is like, too late.

[B]

Yeah, now it's.

[A]

Now they're defensive. They're on DEFCON 1. They know you're trying to close them. You got to deal with that shit up front with a nice and relaxed and conversational.

[C]

Yeah, we talk about it a lot with our guys, is you should be able to get to the end and literally turn your tablet or turn your piece of paper around. And if you've got three options or six options or whatever, they should literally be able to just to choose their option. Yep, I'll take that one. And, you know, so many technicians, you know, are so afraid of selling, and it's like, you're not really selling. You just got to. To your point. You just got to handle all of the insecurities and questions and, you know, uncertainties that they have. But you got to handle it at the right time. You're never going to handle it at the very end. And actually, if you handle it at the very end, then you're truly selling. Whereas if you don't want to be a salesperson, then just walk them down the hallway, and at the end of the day, they're going to choose whatever it is that they would like.

[A]

Imagine this situation, Chad, let's say that you were kidnapped by Martians when you were 3 years old, and then at 30 years old, they brought you back down to earth and they put you in a Nordstrom's department store and a Walmart store, would anyone need to tell you which one was going to cost more? Just, just without knowing anything about either brand, just the experience, the environment, would you know which one is more expensive? Yeah, 100. And so part of our job is, is that we have to create the experience. If you get down to the end and the homeowner surprised that you're $5,000 more, you haven't done your job, they should be like, I figured you're going to be more expensive if you've done your job. I don't care whether you sell the deal or not. Right. That's outcome. I focus on process. If you focus on your process and the homeowner sees your price and says something like, geez, I figured you guys are going to be more expensive, then you've done your job. At least. If they're like, holy shit, you're five grand more, you haven't done your job, they should know by the experience of the Walmart or the Nordstrom's that you're going to be more expensive. And so I'm amazed and dumbfounded how many men and women walk in the house, couple of minutes, doing some chitchat, go measure the system, maybe do a load calc, and then slap down a 20,000 number. And they're shocked when people are like, holy shit, 20 grand? Are you kidding me? You have to, you have to lead them down the sales hallway. The experience to where you listen. The number one question or the number one conversation most homeowners have in their mind when you get to the very end is, how much can I get this guy to drop the price? That's what they're always thinking with contractors. How much, Whatever the number is, how much can I get them down? If you change that dynamic, if you follow the right process, you know what they're thinking at the end, Holy shit, I hope I can afford this company. And if you go into your clothes and they're thinking, holy shit, I hope I can afford this guy, that's a whole different dynamic around price. Right? So it's all about us. You mentioned it, Chris mentioned it. They do this every 15 to 20 years. We do it two or three times a day. We should be better at it than them. We should know exactly what to expect and we should, we should prepare ourselves accordingly.

[B]

Yeah, I don't, I don't know, Chad, if you want to add Anything to that.

[C]

But no, I mean, I think that's beautifully said. I mean, that's what we're trying to teach our team day in and day out is you are worth it. Like, the price is the price because that's what it costs to stay in business. I always laugh at, you know, when my friends call me up, hey, can I get a deal? Well, buddy, we don't go around ripping everybody else off and then give you the great price. Like, this is the price. Because we've calculated as to if we sell this many jobs on this many working hours that we will earn a profit and we can stay in business and keep moving on down the line. But I think it's such a great point of. And I wrote down that question of, you know, during your process as a service technician or a salesperson, up until you present a price, do they feel that they can afford you? Right, because you are worth it. But did you prove it to them that you are worth it? You know, so many guys are quick on an interview to come in. I got 20 years of experience or I got 50. Well, tell the customer that, like, let them know you've done this for a long time. There isn't anything you haven't seen. Like, let them know that you have the answer.

[A]

Hey, you know what we do, Chad? Take two pieces of line set. You take a beautiful piece of copper as pure as a driven snow, and you get a second piece of copper and you put the brazing torch to it on the outside and the inside and educate your customer on that black carbon. Educate them on a nitrogen purge and whether or not it's going to be done on their install. Like, they will see. You have to educate them. You have to show them the difference between a beautiful piece of copper on the inside and a carbon corroded piece of carbon or line set. And homeowners have to see the difference. If we don't educate them, listen, there's nothing more frustrating to get on the end of the deal. And, you know, you're a good company, you'll stand behind it, you'll come out on 4th of July and fix it. But they're comparing you to the cheap guy. If they're doing that, you have no one to blame but yourself. A product demonstration is one of the key parts of our sales presentation. We educate them. Here's a filter dryer. Here's what it does, here's how much it adds to cost, the system. Here's a 15% silver brazing rod versus a 5% silver, you know, what all the manufacturers recommend now, 15% silver. Because the system's running a way more pressure than they used to. It's a stronger, more flexible weld. Most contractors are doing what they're using 5% silver. Why? It's an easier weld and it's cheaper. Here's a. Here's. Here's. A. Here's a nitrogen perch. Here's what copper looks like with it, without it. Educate them. Like, put this shit on the kitchen table. When I'm done with the presentation, they don't have to guess why I'm 3 or 4 or $5,000 higher. They see it right there in the kitchen table. And then I will ask them at the end, I'll say, by the way, now that you. You know, sometimes when people see our prices and what it takes to do it properly, they. They're kind of surprised how much it is. And sometimes they want to know if we can do it cheaper. Now that you would see all the steps I would have to eliminate, is that something you're going to want me to do today? That's the last question I asked before I go on to my clothes, and they're. They're fucking stupefied by it. Well, you must be really expensive. No. Given our quality and service, we feel like we're very competitive. But I'm sure you don't want me to skip all this to cut the price. You got to put in perspective for people. See, here's the thing. Homeowners believe the tooth fairy and freaking Santa Claus Easter Bunny. They want to believe they can get the best quality, cheapest price, but it's total horseshit. We all know that. But if we don't show them, if we don't force them to balance price versus quality, we have no one to blame but ourselves. That's the reality. So that gets back to personal responsibility, which is how Chris started this conversation earlier. It's about personal responsibility. Who you going to blame? You're going to blame yourself. Are you going to blame the homeowner? Look in the mirror, pal. That's all I can tell you.

[B]

I got goosebumps while he was on one.

[A]

Did you see him? I just.

[B]

Back here smiling, watching it.

[A]

That was good. It was fucking cracking me up, dude.

[B]

That was awesome. Okay, I'm going to make one more pivot. How much? How far into this thing are we? We're getting close to an hour.

[A]

What is.

[B]

Okay, cool. So I got time for this. I'm gonna make one more hard pivot because I want. Wally talk about this now and this is around the actual like offers or promotions. So I just want to address it from some of the things that you've done. Chad's go to that works exceptionally well for Peterman Brothers that we've talked about in some previous episodes. This is free furnace offering or like that type of offering. Now you have one that was the one year buyback guarantee.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And people were like, what the you.

[A]

Like what are you doing?

[B]

Like, why would you, why would you offer that? But it was interesting so. Because I can see how you would be like, holy, like why, why would you let somebody go and run this for the summer and then come, I know, take this thing back out? Like, yeah, why run that risk? So I want you to talk about that in particular and then, you know, and share like the reasoning behind it and then how that, how what the success was of it.

[A]

Yeah. So I wish I could take credit for it, but there was a, a German guy 150 years ago that came up with the idea and I give.

[B]

Him credit for it.

[A]

Baron von. Von something something. Right. So he built this, he built this hotel in Switzerland and started as a winter time hotel, a winter getaway. Well, now imagine yourself living in, you know, in Western Europe and you want to go to Switzerland in the cold. And so he started marketing people like, why would we come to Switzerland when it's freezing ass cold and tons of snow? And this is before skiing this 150 years ago, before snowmobiles, before the winter sports. And he was so convinced that the experience they would have would be mind boggling. He said, here's the deal. You come from Western Europe, from France, Italy, England, whatever. You come here for the winter. And if you're not happy with the experience, I will refund your entire stay and pay your travel expenses. That was the first recorded industry experience of a buy it back guarantee. So I've just learned from that, studying that. This is what we have to do. Here's the bottom line. To me, the single most important thing that homeowners are trying to evaluate is the level of risk in the purchasing process. If the risk is high, it makes it very difficult to say yes. If the risk is low, it makes it very easy to say yes. Right? So imagine this scenario, Chris. You're at Walmart and you're going to buy a flashlight. The flashlight's 25 bucks. You buy it, you go home with it. You don't like it, it doesn't work right. What do you do with it? You bring it back to Walmart and guess what, they give you a new one or your money back. So how much risk is there for you when you're making that decision to buy that flashlight? Zero. Imagine you're in that same aisle, but a flashlight's a thousand bucks. And there's a sign, the shelf that says, no refunds, no exchanges. Right. Does it make it more difficult for you to buy that flashlight? Of course it does. Now you got to think about, well, let me think about this. Let me get three bids, right? Let me shop around all that. What I call dysfunctional buying behavior, comes from the homeowner perceiving that the level of risk is so high. So my job walking in the house, in addition to the other things we've talked about, is to minimize the risk. I want to make it easy for my homeowner to say yes. What's the easiest way to do that? If you don't like this system, you don't like the way my people treat you on the phone, you don't like the service, if you don't like the color of my trucks, anytime during the first year, I'll buy this system back. It eliminates all the risk. Now, how often does it ever happen? Rarely. In 20 years, it's probably happened five times. And by the way, when that happens, other than going to Rhino, it's the best marketing money I can ever spend. Because the letter I get in exchange for buying that system back, I'm going to use to sell the next 10 million. So it's simply about minimizing the risk for your homeowners. No one really wants their system pulled out. It's a pain in the ass for the homeowner, too. What they want is the ability to not have the risk. The risk should be on my shoulder as the contractor, not the homeowners. And that's why the buy it back guarantee works, because it eliminates risk and allows me. I mean, just think about this. If. What's your favorite car, Chris? What's your favorite car that I own? Are you one or that you own? Either one.

[B]

My favorite car is my Bel Air.

[A]

Okay, so you got two brand new Bel Airs. We'll go back and in time. And they're identical. They're on the showroom floor. They're identical. Same price, same everything. You drive one across the curb, you buy it, and you got all the manufacturer's warranties. The transmission goes out, engine goes out. They'll fix in the warranty. The other one next to it's identical. Same warranties, but it has an additional little warranty. And that is at the end of the first year, if you don't like it, you can bring it back to the dealership, drop the keys in the salesman's hand, and get your money back. Which of those cars is more valuable to you? Yeah. Based on that, I mean, how much? I don't know, 500 bucks, 1,000 bucks. Who knows what the number is? But it absolutely has more value to you. So I'm just adding that as another value add to my system that I eliminate the risk where the other guy may or may not. And I'm going to tell you something. If my guys come back in and they didn't sell a job, they didn't trust you, they didn't believe you. Because if they really believed you that they could get their money back, why wouldn't they buy from you when they don't buy from you? It's because they never believed you didn't do a good enough job selling the guarantee, selling the stories, building the relationship. They didn't believe you. That's what it comes down to. Yeah.

[B]

And this puts a hell of a lot like you. You gotta be make sure you feel real good about your installs.

[A]

Oh, it puts pressure on. Yeah, it puts pressure on the quality of your installs. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

So question.

[A]

Are you.

[B]

Are you still like, are you. I know, because you're doing a lot of consulting and things like that too, to help them with this stuff. Are you still kind of pushing that initiative because you. Have you seen others don't do the same thing? They're repeating.

[A]

I own. I own. I have a partial interest. My dear friend and business partner. A partner that I've learned more from than anybody I can even remember, Gary Ellix. He and I own six or seven now, different companies together. And we go in, we take a partial interest, we build the companies and we sell them, and we. We implement that on every single company. Good.

[B]

Dude, I like Gary. Gary. Is Gary going to be up at your thing?

[A]

He'll be at the owner's event. He's actually coming in because I'm having a cigar guy come in, a cigar aficionado. Well, guess what? Gary's the whiskey aficionado. There's not much he doesn't know actually about cigars, too. But we got this cigar guy coming in and Gary's going to be there just to hang out with us. He's going to speak for an hour or so on financial management and. But he'll be at the VIP event, too.

[B]

Yeah, you've got to make the journey of both of us.

[A]

Be fun. You're going to see some cool cars. We got a nice collection now, man. We got a beautiful collection. We got Ferraris, we got, we got classic Camaros, classic Corvettes. I just picked up a 1971 Ford Bronco. Arresto mod. This thing is, dude, when I look at the car, I laugh. It's so freaking cute. It looks like if you turn too sharp, it would flip over because it's a box. But it's the cutest little car. I just absolutely love it. And yeah, we got a lot of cool cars. And so, yeah, we'll hang out, smoke cigars and talk about cars.

[B]

I might, I'll. I mean, I'm no joke. I might. I think I might be able to make it up for that. It'll just be a single night thing for me.

[A]

What, dude. And gratis dude, you come up, no charge. You come out, hang out with us. I'd love to have you there and just shoot the breeze with us and hang out with the fellas and the women. Some wives will be there too.

[B]

Sure. I, I don't mean to derail us, but I just was wondering about that. I mean, Gary's a good dude, so be cool.

[A]

He's such a good guy.

[B]

Your thing? Yeah, yeah, I just thought it'd be cool to like talk about some things you've actually implemented. Like, so we've kind of talked, you know, just about mindset. We talked about like overall sales training, some of the fundamentals that haven't changed. I just need to start to get a little more tactical and talk about some of the objections that some of these listeners here. And that way, like, you know, everybody's hearing the same and everybody else, like, people aren't just getting lucky. There's a process to this thing and there's some education this thing and it certainly works. And like you said, when people are selling camels for pyramids, like, that's a great point, Chris.

[A]

People are not getting lucky. The people that are that are making it is because of their process. And I think Chad mentioned it earlier. It's not a knowledge problem. It's an implementation problem. Everybody knows what to do. You can learn how to do brain surgery on YouTube. It's not a knowledge, but the knowledge is out there, right? It's an execution implementation problem.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I heard one thing too that my wrestling coach told me a long time ago, and it was when people were saying you would get lucky. I had the same, like, I had an epiphany because I was like. Or I mean, deja vu, because I had the same conversation with my son, and he had said, you know, we're talking about luck, like, what luck really is. I think there is luck. Like, you can get lucky, but absolutely, luck is when. This is. My wrestling coach taught me, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. So, yeah, it may appear that I got lucky, but, no, I was just prepared for this moment when it came up and happened to be successful with it.

[A]

That's so true. That's great advice. Great advice.

[B]

But you have to implement the things that you learn and actually put in the effort and the time to do. To do all the things. So tail end of this podcast, man, it was. It's been awesome having you on here, Wally. And I want to make sure we do this more frequently with you because I know you have so much, you know, content love, man.

[A]

I just love what you're doing. I love watching you over the last 15 years, the success you've had, the connections you've made. It's been fun to watch, dude. And congratulations. You know, you're. You're the young buck coming up. Like you said, I'm the og. I'm the old guy. But it's you young bucks that are coming up, man, that are having the influence today, and I love to see it. I. I think I saw some stuff with you and Tommy Mello. I got down to see him in Arizona a couple of. Maybe a month ago. What a. What a freaking stud that dude is. Yeah, I mean, that guy's just a baller.

[B]

He figured some out. Well, no, I appreciate the. The compliments, and, I mean, it means a lot, and it's always cool to be able to reminisce and go back to, like, those debt because, man, it takes me back to where I was at and those.

[A]

You were scrapping, you were scrapping out building a business. Just like the.

[B]

The hustle, man, the hard work, underpricing, everything, like, just. Oh, God, it just takes me back, listening to phone calls myself, putting them in Excel spreadsheets. Oh, dear God.

[A]

But you know what?

[B]

That's the, like, those are the scars you talked about to build these businesses. And all the listeners listening to this thing that are smaller still trying to build, like, you know, stop crying about it. We're all. We all go through the same thing. Like, this is where the process, like.

[A]

Nobody starts as Ken Goodrich or Leland Smith. Yeah, Right. They. They start at the bottom, and they. They work their way up. I saw something Ken posted yesterday or last night, whenever it Was like, there's an imposter out there pretending to be me. Don't click on it. I'm like, wait a second. How do we know. How do we don't know that this is the imposter? He's like, there's only one Kenny Goodrich. I'm like, no.

[B]

Well, actually, yeah, because I saw the other comments below it, and I was like, yep, that's how you know.

[A]

You know, it's Ken and Liam Smith, who I refer to as the Godfather, is one of my dearest friends and one of the men that I've learned so much from and just. I call him the Godfather. He is just. Anyway, but those guys started where you and I started. You know, Lila, Smith is a perfect example. Forty years ago, he calls himself an old plumber. Yeah. And he comes out and builds the shit that he built. It's just. It's just crazy. But that's where everybody starts. Got to start at the beginning.

[B]

Well, I mean, yeah, Kwame Leland is a phenomenal human being. I love that guy. Um, you know, I've been blessed to have relationships with, you know, him and Ken and Geiger and Ken Haynes and, like, all these guys. So, like, I have some really great, you know, people help me along the way, and good relationships come from it just like this, so. Well, hey, I don't know. I know where I'm, like, right at the top, so I got to get this thing wrapped up. But, Chad, if there's anything you want to close with, if you're good, we'll go ahead and get the clothes done. I mean, are you good to go, or.

[C]

No, I just. Thanks again. This was. You know, selfishly, this was good just to kind of re. Kind of recalibrate, if you will. I think we can get so involved in running businesses and doing all of this that it really does come back to the. To the blocking and tackling of. What is your mindset? Are you ready to do it? I think the one thing that I would add is, you know, the bullshit never stops. It's not like when I reach 20 million or I reach 40 million, I just get to sit back and don't do it. When you retire, maybe that will happen. However, more than likely, you'll get back into it. So I think that's the biggest thing is your. Your willingness to battle against the bullshit, your willingness to fight it, your willingness to understand that you are in control. So long as you think you're in control and you do the things that put you in control, you can persevere through just about damn near anything. So I appreciate you saying that. It was good for me. I've got a bunch of notes here and yeah, look forward to staying in touch and, you know, just. Just talking. Talking shop for sure.

[A]

Well. Oh, Chad, I gotta tell you, it's great to meet you today and congratulations on your success. Chris was kind of giving the rundown on what you've accomplished out there. It's amazing. And Chris Yano, dude, I'm your number one fan brother. I've enjoyed watching you over 15, 16, 17 years. You've been a major, major hurricane impact in the industry. And congratulations and it's fun to chat with you again and just get to see you. I think about those early days. You and I just scratch it out, scratch out our little brand and here we are all these Years later, almost 20 years, man. Hard to believe.

[B]

I know, dude. I know it's. It is weird. I mean, it'll be 46 here in a few months, which seems weird, but I feel like I got a ton of Runway ahead of me, you know, and it's having a good time doing it. But listen, I got to get you down to Orion, Alex, like, that's what needs to happen. I need to get you out of the next Rhino X because he would crush it.

[A]

Let's do it. Happy to do it.

[B]

All right, cool. Well, listen, you know, to our listeners, man, like, listen, this is a. This, this is another legend in the. In the trades. I mean, like, one of the best. Like, you just hear, heard why with the coolest stories, the coolest techniques, you know, But a lot of it's just simplified. It just taking his processes, you know, from his perspective and the way he's learned things and had a lot of success with it. It's just another tool for you to use. But like you said, you actually got.

[A]

To pick the tool up in a second. You call me a tool? What are you.

[B]

He's gay. For the stay, he said.

[A]

Maybe. That's man. Congratulations on everything. You too, Chad. You guys are man. Great podcast.

[B]

A lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, we had a good time.

[A]

And to our listeners, hopefully you enjoyed.

[B]

Wally, make sure you check out that event. We'll make sure to put it in the show notes so that way you can get over to if he. If he has room for it and then obviously reach out to him on. He'll be able to respond to you. I will finish with these last two things. One, he talked about cpa, not like your accountant, but also cause permit and allow, like, take, keep that in mind when you're thinking about, you know, what's your what you allow to happen in your life and also what's your part in any of these negative experiences you're happened, like, what's your responsibility in the situation or with the personal relationship? And a lot of those things might help you think back, like, hey, maybe some of this was my fault. Like, I went to prison, left my son on his own, like, all he was talking about. So take a little ownership yourself, all right? Maybe that's setting your pride aside because pride gets in the way. And sometimes pride is a cause of destruction in your life. So take accountability for your own shit, all right? And then, you know, you don't got to do everything, but you got to do something. Ain't that right, Chad?

[C]

That is correct. No. Zero days.

[B]

There we go.