A (2:31)

Yeah, so that's a great question. So at the time of Evaluation. If there is another area that is identified as primary disability and it is not deaf and hard of hearing, that person would be the case manager. So it would be a different special education teacher or sometimes it might be a speech and language pathologist. However, if it is a student who is identified as having deaf and hard of hearing as their primary disability, then I would become the case manager and

B (3:01)

who decides what the primary disability is.

A (3:04)

So ultimately it's a team decision. We look at that medical information, we look at all of the areas of disability related needs that we had identified throughout the evaluation process. A lot of times I will be the case manager, but there will also be speech and language as a related service and we ultimately decide that, hey, this speech need is related to that hearing loss piece.

B (3:29)

Yeah, that makes sense for the students that you're the case manager for. What is your role as the case manager? What does that all entail?

A (3:38)

So I wear many hats. So aside from just that, direct instruction and advocacy or auditory or language development, it is my job to schedule and coordinate IEP meetings. I write all of my IEPs at the beginning of the school year. I always coordinate what we call early engagement meetings. So that is where I invite the student, their families to come and meet their teacher. We talk about the iep, their impacts of hearing loss in the classroom. We talk about technology, get those things set up and have them choose a seat in the classroom that's going to be most conducive for them. So I coordinate those meetings. I'm continuously collaborating with the educational audiologist. We make a really great team, always collaborating with the general education teachers throughout the year. Troubleshooting equipment so I do a lot of the basic troubleshooting. If a DM system is not working or hearing aids, something's going wrong. I'm there to assess first and try to figure out, and then I'll reach out to the educational audiologist. If I'm not able to do that, I'm always creating visuals and providing resources to general education teachers regarding, like, best practices for supporting their students in the general education environment. And that's kind of just an ongoing thing that I do throughout the year. One thing that the educational audiologist and I do typically in spring is we will conduct an acoustic sound analysis. So what we do is we go into potential future classrooms to determine what would be the best classroom placement for that student for the following year. So we look at like, what is the environment like? Does this classroom have carpeting? Is this classroom near the cafeteria or is it near like recess? Area. And we sort of collaborate and provide that information to administrators to kind of just ensure that our students are being set up for success for the following year.

B (5:42)

It kind of sounds like being the case manager gives you the opportunity to have a little more like holistic support of the student, I guess, like, as opposed to just providing the, the service of tod, which is like tied to like specific goals or like accommodations or whatnot. I feel like everything you're describing, I do, but I have to go through the case manager first. Like, I have. There's an extra person I have to like educate about hearing loss so that way these needs can be met. It's a little more like roundabout, I guess. It sounds like this actually might be a little more comprehensive and I can see how this might actually be quite helpful for the student to have like a person in charge of their case who understands hearing loss.

A (6:27)

Yeah, I agree. And I just think of two, like, just little things. Like right now our district is going through a lot of district wide assessments, being that it's January, so I'm in charge of either implementing those testing accommodations or proctoring or administering those assessments with my students. Whereas, like, if I had to go through someone else, like it would be me checking in like, oh, are you making sure that this is happening? And at least I, I feel like I'm aware and, and I know that those accommodations are being met and provided.

B (7:02)

Yeah, it's almost just like more streamlined because a lot of times, like, because I'm in a bunch of different districts. I mean, I have an idea of when testing is, but like every district kind of has their own systems, their own things going on and like the case manager has to reach out to me to ask for accommodations or I have to reach out to them and then they fill out the paperwork and then they do this and it's like, it takes like three steps to get everything done versus just someone knowing what needs to be done and when and how all in one person. Like that sounds kind of nice.

A (7:30)

Yeah, I think it's definitely an advantage of being a case manager.

B (7:35)

But if you're doing all this extra work, is this time built into your schedule?

A (7:39)

Yeah. So that's a really great question. So are you familiar with the three to one model of itinerant teaching?

B (7:47)

No. Can you tell me about it?

A (7:49)

Yeah, I would love to. So back in 2019, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Karen Anderson.

B (7:56)

Yes.

A (7:56)

And the building success for students with hearing loss.

B (7:59)

Very familiar.

A (8:01)

Yeah. Awesome. So she, back in 2019, shared an article about the benefits of following the three to one model of itinerant teaching. And so what that looks like is it's three weeks of direct support, so that pulling out of the classroom to work on those either advocacy, vocabulary, auditory goals. And then on that fourth week, what that looks like is it's not necessarily direct support with the student, it's more supported. So, so what I typically do during that time is I will go into the classroom, I will conduct observations to see if the students are generalizing the skills we are working on in the classroom. And it's also a great opportunity for me to collaborate with all of my teachers and just ensuring that, you know, there's nothing that I could be front loading in terms of vocabulary, making sure that all of their accommodations are being provided in the classroom and that their learning is accessible. And then also it gives me the flexibility to kind of move students around so that they're still getting their IEP minutes met. So I do indicate in the IEP under specialized instruction that let's say I see them three times weekly for 30 minutes, I'll indicate in three of four weeks. And I explained to parents that fourth week doesn't mean like, I'm just taking a break. It just means that like, I'm supporting in other ways that I couldn't necessarily do when I was following that weekly model of direct instruction.

B (9:40)

Yeah, I've. I. Now that you're explaining it, like, I'm familiar with that concept. I didn't realize it had like a actual name, but I feel like that's a very smart way to do it because then you can, especially if you are responsible for case manager responsibilities. I think that's how people get burned out is when they have like all this extra stuff and no, like actual like billable time to do it, quote, unquote. Like, you know what I mean? Like time built in. I feel like my job has something not similar, but it's like districts contract with us, right? So they're billed an hour, but sessions are 45 minutes. So like those 15 are like administrative and like paperwork. So I guess it adds up the same, you know, over the course, if you're doing see a student once a week for an hour, it's an extra one of those. It's like an hour in total of like admin time, except it's like little by little. But I kind of like the idea of doing like you said, like the 3 one, because then it's like a block of time where you can actually like accomplish something like, and if you have all these extra responsibilities, I feel like that's a good way to do it. And by setting it up that way in the iep, like, everyone's on the same page, everyone understands. And I'm sure the parents can even see that, like, that is beneficial for their student to have that additional type of support in addition to like the direct service.

A (10:51)

Yes, absolutely. And I feel that, like, since implementing this model, my students have demonstrated so much more success in meeting their goals. Because it's not just, okay, let's work one on one and then off you go. It's like, I really can see how they're generalizing that skill in the classroom. And if I need to like provide a prompt or a model, I'm able to do that. And sometimes you catch so many things through observation that you're like, oh, this would be a great topic to focus on. Like, my last support services week, I was in the classroom and a student was using her pass microphone with a group of students and it was lighting up blue, indicating that there was no connection or something was not working. And so I went over and I was like, hey, so I don't think you're hearing anyone in there. So what do you think? How can we troubleshoot this together? So it kind of provided me that opportunity to sort of jump in. I will only typically do that with elementary students. With like middle school and high school students, I don't want them to feel awkward. So I usually leave that for a conversation during our self advocacy session where we will just kind of talk about it and troubleshoot. But then I was able to, for those next three following weeks, like we worked on, I made a social story on past microphone and like, what could go wrong? How do we troubleshoot? And so because of that opportunity that I was in the classroom, I was able to support that student in that way. I never would have thought about that, you know, prior to it because you wouldn't have seen that.

B (12:25)

Yeah, I always, we're. I always write the location or like the that part as like flexible. So it's like not push in or pull out. It's flexible. So that way, like I always try to push in like a little bit. Sometimes it's a whole session depend a whole like time period, if that's like what needs to happen. But like a lot of times it's like a little bit here, a little bit there. Just so like you said, you can kind of pick up on stuff like that. Speaking of something you said though, like, do you always do the same week of the month where you, like, block off that whole week to, like, do this kind of case manager and observation stuff.

A (12:55)

Yeah. So I should also mention, in our district, our speech and language pathologists also follow the same model. So prior to the start of that school year, we kind of look at, like, the calendar, and then we determine which would be the best weeks for those support services to take place.

B (13:13)

I mean, there's a lot of weeks in a month.

A (13:17)

Yeah. So sometimes. Yeah, sometimes it doesn't align exactly, like, per month. It's just we kind of go off of like three weeks and then one week of support services and then up until the end of the school school year. So we just provide that those dates to the classroom teachers ahead of time. And then I always send an email just, hey, letting you know that it is a support services week. And I typically set up meetings with those general education teachers about a week prior so that we can get that coordinated and scheduled. And I'll just say, hey, I'm just going to come in today randomly and to observe.

B (13:53)

Yeah, I always like to ask these, like, nitty gritty questions because, like, if someone wanted to try to implement this, like, I, like, I'm picturing all, like, the roadblocks, like, all the questions they would like, they try to do it and then they're like, wait, when do I do that? Like, what's the week? Like, what do I do when there's five weeks? Like, like, these are the types of things that, like, I like to hear the little details on. Was this system already set up when you started working there?

A (14:14)

So with the speech and language pathologists, it was something that they had recently started, and it appeared to be really successful for them. And so I was like, always thinking in the back of my head, like, wow, I have so, so many things that I need to do in order to be a successful case manager for my students. And then that article came across, and so I shared that with my district special education coordinator. And I said, hey, what do you. What do you think about me following this model? And at that time, I was also working in two districts and was starting to feel kind of the burnout. And so he fully supported that. And so as IEPs would come, I would explain to parents kind of that transition of what that's going to look like in the future. And then it sort of took a long time to get everyone on to that model. But as their IEP came, I just adjusted the minutes under specialized instruction.

B (15:11)

That makes sense, because I feel like this could be the kind of Thing where I know if you work in several districts, I could see it being a little harder or taking a little longer because you have to like convince multiple people that this is a good model. But if you wanted to start implementing it, that would make like for other people who want to start doing it to like you said, do it little by like get approved from like the director and then you can start doing a kid by kid. And it's not like a huge shift, it's just a more natural way to move into it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I really like that. I think that you answered like half the questions that I wrote down.

A (15:43)

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I feel like it's, it's just made the position so much more manageable because I would always be thinking in the back of my head, how am I going to fit in test, you know, testing accommodations, how am I going to fit in this collaboration time that I have under program modifications? And you know, there, you know, it's not just the specialized instruction that you're doing with these with your students. I mean there's, there's just so much involved.

B (16:11)

Yeah. And it's funny, I didn't really know what to expect out of like this episode because I, like I said I have no frame of reference for case managing and like I didn't expect you to have so many solutions. Like I feel like you're killing it like this. I feel like this is like so good for people who are trying to case manage on top of everything else and feeling like they're burning out and like need a different way. Like I think that this seems like it's it.

A (16:33)

Yes, I fully advocate for me, it's just been a really successful method.

B (16:39)

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let's get into like some nitty gritty stuff like in terms of actually keeping everything organized because it's a lot of paperwork, it's a lot of people. Do you have any like tips or systems for keeping everything organized, like deadlines, meetings, reports, signatures, stuff like that?

A (16:58)

Yeah. So great question. When it comes to organization, I feel like I'm a little extra.

B (17:04)

I.

A (17:04)

So I do like a paper calendar that's color coded for each school that I'm with. But then I also have my Google Calendar, which looks like very much the same. I like the Google Calendar because I can add teachers to each session and you can just set it up so that it's like on cycle for up to the end of the school year. And then if I like need to adjust a time or like a Student doesn't show up, a teacher can just write a quick note on there, like, canceled student is out today or something like that. So that's really great. I like the paper calendar and that. Like, sometimes when I'm meeting with students, I'll, like, write down a note on there for like, the next day. Like, oh, make sure you grab batteries from the audiology cabinet and bring it to the school. And, you know, I'll just jot little things down like that, which helps me to kind of stay organized because I know I look at that quite a few times a day.

B (18:02)

Yeah, that's a good tip.

A (18:03)

In terms of IEPs. So at that early engagement meeting before the start of the school year, since the family and the teachers are already there, I like to schedule all of my IEPs before the start of school, which has really helped. I know we cannot always control, like, if you have an initial evaluation or there's a re evaluation, there's different things to consider. But for the students that I case manage, I like to have that set and ready to go. And it's been a really successful system for me.

B (18:34)

So is that IEP for the upcoming school year then?

A (18:37)

So, like, so the early engagement meeting is like, in August. So our school year typically starts maybe September 1st. So I like to have my students meet their teachers before the start of school to kind of alleviate some of that anxiety. So I'm like, well, we're all here. Why don't we set up for, you know, fall, spring, you know, winter, whenever their IEPs do. And we will schedule that meeting that in there.

B (19:03)

You'll schedule it there?

A (19:04)

Okay.

B (19:04)

I thought you had the meeting.

A (19:05)

I'm like, no, no, you schedule it.

B (19:09)

Isn't there some important information that has to be decided before?

A (19:13)

Yeah, so we schedule the iep. It's on the calendar. And that gives, you know, especially if you have, like, an educational audiologist who is supporting various districts. You know, I'd really like that to be a part of the IEP because they provides so much great input and they're a valuable member of the team. But sometimes it's hard if, like, you're scheduling an iep, like, three weeks before it's due, and they're like, I already have a meeting or I can't make that. So. And also if you have like an ot, a pt, other people on the team that you need to consider. So it just. It has just really worked well for me.

B (19:47)

Yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense to just like, go ahead and get it on the calendar, like when you have everyone in person or at least like, everyone's attention. And I guess because you have this 3:1 system, you have time for meetings. Like, what a concept.

A (20:02)

Well, yeah, and I do intentionally try to schedule those IEPs during that support services week, so I'm not having to cancel students or like, trying to shuffle them around like they're still getting their IEP minutes in. Because I was finding that prior to following that three to one model, I would kind of have to just go at whatever it was scheduled at if I wasn't the case manager or I would, like, try to figure out a time. And it was just always so challenging. So. And I would have to miss students, and I don't always like having to miss and it's always a struggle to try to reschedule and. Well, where am I going to fit them in?

B (20:38)

Yeah, absolutely. Do you have, like, an iep, like, season? Like, it's like, they're all in the spring or yours all year, so they

A (20:46)

go all year round.

B (20:48)

That's how we are. That's how we are, too. But my old job in New York was like, they were all in the spring, which I kind of was like, a blessing and a curse.

A (20:54)

Like, yeah, I'm just curious, like, so if you have all of the IEPs in spring and let's say you needed to do a review revise or something, how it. How does that work? How do you get back on cycle if you have like a review revise in like, October or like, I think

B (21:11)

you just have another one in the spring.

A (21:13)

Okay.

B (21:13)

Like, you could have a. Like you can have a meeting in October, November, December, whatever. But then you would have another meeting in April, or if you had one in December, maybe it wouldn't be till maybe because we go to the end of June. So. Yeah, so it was, like, kind of nice because everyone, like, sometimes I feel like it's like, hard to have a meeting in October and you're deciding stuff for the following year. And it's like, well, I guess we can give it our best shot. But, like, there's a lot that can change between now and then. But so it was nice that it was in the spring, but then, like I said, it's like a lot of meetings in the spring, so it's like, hard logistically to, like, get that done. So I kind of prefer them spread out, even though it can be kind of weird for like, the beginning of the year ones. But, like, you can always remeat if you need to change stuff. It's like, not the end of the world. But I mean, it makes so much sense when you now that you explained that time where you have for the meetings and then scheduling all the meetings at the beginning. Amazing idea. I love that. And then do you remind people about the meetings?

A (22:05)

Yeah, so I usually set up an email reminder, like a schedule send with all the people and then I will include like, if it's, if it's a virtual iep, I'll include the zoom link on there and just have that set up and sent so I don't have to like worry about it. And then I typically send an IEP draft to the families like about a week prior to the actual meeting. So what I will do is if I have like a speech and language pathologist and the audiologist on the team, I will just send them a Google invitation and about a few weeks prior to the date that I'm sending out the draft and just say, hey, I'm sending the draft on this day. Please make sure you have all of your information in by this time because this is when I'm sending it to the families.

B (22:50)

And how do you remember to send those reminders? Do you have them in your calendar or are they like auto scheduled all for the whole year?

A (22:56)

Yep. So I just, I actually put them as like a calendar event on my Google calendar and then just send it out so that they have it on theirs.

B (23:05)

Yeah, you know, I feel like that's a good idea when you have that week. Because what I do is like, I put like, if I have to write a progress report and I know what to do at a certain time, I'll put a time on my calendar when I think I'm going to write it. But like, I'm looking like six months out. Right. So I don't exactly know what my schedule is going to look like. So I put it on the calendar like, thinking that's when I'm going to write it. But then like, inevitably, like, I have to see a student at that time or a makeup or reschedule or like, and then like, it's still on my calendar. Like, I still know I have to write it, but now I can't write it at that time anymore. And then I get like, then like three days passes and I'm like, I have to write that report like tomorrow. Like, and then sometimes that's when I end up doing it like off contract hours when you're not supposed to be working. So it's like, I feel like I. If you have the admin time, then you will actually do it. In the time you schedule to do it, it all goes back to the. To the 31. I keep wanting to say three one, one, but that's not right. It's three one, right?

A (24:01)

Like, three to one.

B (24:02)

Yeah, three to one. Okay. I'm like, like, four, one, one. Awesome. Okay. I feel like that's like. I feel like you really have it all figured out. It's so helpful. Okay. If I ever end up being a case manager, I, like, know exactly what to do. So I feel like we talked a little bit about, like, the benefits of being the case manager. Is there anything that's, like, particularly challenging about also being the case manager and any, like, tips you have, like, come up with to, like, overcome those challenges?

A (24:27)

Yeah. I would say the hardest part about being a case manager is, you know, it's just a lot of admin work. Right. Like, so it's a lot of planning, scheduling. So you always have to be two steps ahead. I would also say, like, just not being able to be in two places at once.

B (24:43)

Right.

A (24:44)

So I'm, like, always in the back of my mind thinking about, is a student getting what they need? And, well, what if something happens? Or am I going to make sure that, you know, is the teacher going to reach out to me and let me know, hey, the DM is down. And I feel like I have a really solid relationship with my general education teachers that I work with. But, you know, that's just always in the back of your mind almost a little bit, like, kind of feeling guilty. Especially for, like, my younger kiddos where I'm like, oh, he's only three. And, like, I wish I could be there in the building all. All the time. So I think that's really hard. I honestly don't know how itinerant teachers did this job prior to email. I would be so lost without.

B (25:24)

I never had to. So I don't know. I just, you know, same with gps. Oh, my God. I don't know.

A (25:31)

Oh, yes, absolutely. But, you know, I'm just. It's like I'm constantly checking my email and my phone just to make sure that there's nothing, you know, that I need to step in and support with. So it's just, you know, you're. It's like, you know, on your computer where you have, like, all these tabs open. I feel like that's my mind all of the time 247 when it comes to this job, just because, like, you want the best for your students and there's a lot to, like, to manage.

B (26:01)

Yeah, I Feel like that's like probably like the good and the bad is like you're in charge of everything, which is great because you're, you will do a good job. Like you know what you're doing. On the downside, you are in charge of everything. So you have to keep track of everything, which is a lot.

A (26:18)

Yeah, absolutely. I think another thing that's really challenging as far as being the case manager and this is probably just challenging for deaf and hard of hearing teachers overall, but really getting staff to understand sort of the, you know, how, how deaf and hard of hearing education, how students hearing loss kind of impacts them and it's like it's that invisible disability. Right. So sometimes it's like, oh, they look like they're doing fine and you know, it's really trying to explain in the best way possible to get them to understand that, you know, it is so different. And sometimes when you're advocating for more services, it's hard for someone who has not received that deaf and hard of hearing education to understand that deaf and hard of hearing education and special education should be approached differently. Right. And so I feel like I'm constantly having to advocate for more support if it's maybe in academics specifically like reading or math. And it's like, well, they only have deaf and hard of hearing is the disability related needs. So we don't have another special education teacher on the team. And it's really hard to get one on the team, if that makes sense.

B (27:36)

Yeah, that's interesting because for, for us, I think there is always a special education teacher on the team. A teacher of the deaf is not considered a special educator. So. And since we're not the case manager either, there needs to be a special education teacher on the team even if they don't see the student directly, like they have to consult on the iep. So it's like sometimes that's helpful, sometimes it's not if you know, but like it's just interesting how it is different places because everyone does it. I don't know, I don't know how everyone could possibly do it so different, but they do.

A (28:07)

Yes.

B (28:08)

And I feel like sometimes it's hard when there's like, it's hard to parse out sometimes like what's related to the hearing loss and what's not. Like, like a lot of kids have hearing loss and a learning disability and like that's totally fine. But we need to like work together to figure out how to approach that because like a strictly special ed approach is not going to address all of their needs. And like, neither is just a deaf and hard of hearing approach because there's two parts going on and we're gonna need a whole team to figure that out. But I kind of feel like at least as the case manager, you're leading the conversation on that versus someone who has. Like, for us, the case manager is a job. Like, it's not a special ed teacher. It's like the school psychologist or the school social worker. Like, their job is case manager, so they don't really work with the student directly. So they have to get all their information, like, secondhand from the teachers, like the tod, the special ed teacher. And that's nice that they do all that work for us. Like, I'm very appreciative and up until this conversation, I had never had any interest in being a case manager. Like, I was always like, thank goodness I don't have to do that. Now I'm fearing like, wow, maybe, maybe it is doable, maybe it would be good, but it's not. Not in the cards for New Jersey. But I can see how that, like, I don't know, you have a little more control over at least having that conversation because you're the one leading the meeting and you're in charge of emailing everybody. So. Interesting. It's funny. I don't know. Like I said, I wasn't sure what we were going to talk about exactly, and I'm like, very happy that it ended up being more of like a positive conversation. I don't know. I don't know what I expected, but, like, it's nice to have someone who actually seems like they, like, they enjoyed the case managing aspect. Like, they think it's helpful.

A (29:47)

Yeah, I really do love what I do. And I think that as a case manager, like, you kind of have a little bit more control over certain things and that that can make the job go a little more smoothly and to just kind of being like that contact person and kind of more so being in the know. Prior to working in this district, when I was not a case manager, it was just kind of like sometimes I felt like I wasn't always kept up to speed with maybe things that were happening. And I'm like, but I'm a member of the team. Like, I should know these. This information. So I do feel like I have a good grasp of, you know, my students progress and how things are really going. So that's nice.

B (30:32)

Yeah. One time I walked in to a school and the student had been out for surgery. They didn't tell me what Kind of surgery. They came back with a cochlear implant. And I was like, oh, wow. What have been helpful for someone to have told me that information?

A (30:48)

Yes. That I did not.

B (30:51)

I did not know that was going to happen. Wow. That's the kind of thing maybe I wouldn't have. I would have been informed of had

A (30:59)

I been the case manager. Right. Like, oh, here, here are some best practice tips or, you know, recommendations for when the student comes back.

B (31:10)

Or truly, I think the most, like, shocking thing that's ever happened to me, like, in my, in my teaching career, I, like, walked in, I'm like, what is that? Like, and the students like, that's my new hearing aid. I'm like, no. I was like, oh, my God. Okay.

A (31:24)

But just to like, to think about, like, had you been informed, what could you have done to help prepare the student?

B (31:30)

Oh, my God. So much. Like, and the family, like, there was a lot that could have been done because I don't think anyone quite knew what was happening with that until it happened. But yeah. Wild. All right, so my last question that I had written down was, if you're training a new TOD case manager, or if someone is listening to this and maybe wants to implement this model because they're already case managing, but they feel like they want to try to do it this way, what kind of tips or ideas would you share with them to kind of get them started and off on the right foot?

A (32:03)

Yeah, so I would say, you know, definitely, if you're interested in that three to one model, approaching your special education director or special education coordinator, whoever that might be, and just kind of sharing like, hey, these are the benefits. Maybe just really clarifying, like, the role of the teacher of the deaf and hard of hearing isn't just like pulling that student out, providing that instruction or pushing in the classroom and providing that direct instruction. Like, there's so much more that's involved with being a teacher of the deaf and hard of hearing. And, you know, just with managing, like, I'm. I would be able to, you know, work with more students if I were able to follow this model. Because, you know, then you have more time to do some more of that administrative work, you have more time to conduct observations, you have more time to maintain, you know, their assistive listening devices. So just kind of taking it from that approach. I would say definitely just being organized is really, truly key to be a successful case manager. The deaf and hard of hearing, being flexible, you never know it's going to come your way. So you just kind of have to take it as it comes and just learning how to like, okay, how do I, you know, if a student is on a field trip? I mean, I think we've all been there where like, we've shown up at a school and while they're out today or they're on a field trip or whatever, you know, just being like, okay, let it go, and then just figuring out how that you can make up that time with the student. And I think just being assertive with advocating for students on their behalf is, is definitely an attribute that you would need to get good at.

B (33:46)

Yeah, I think being assertive and like, also, like, I don't know, like tactful. I don't know how the best way to put it. I feel like I have no problem being assertive, but sometimes I like, I have to think about what's the best way to say this so that people will agree with me. Like, because I, like, need to convince this group of people that this is the best practice for this student. So I feel like it's gotten easier as I've gotten like, more experienced. At the beginning I would be like, but why wouldn't you do it? Like, this is what. This is the best thing to. This is the most appropriate thing to do. But I think that probably just comes with practice, like being comfortable being assertive and then also just being more clear and persuasive in your language.

A (34:27)

And I would just say, like, when you are approaching. What has helped me is just having resources and evidence and just any type of literature to help support. Like, this is what I'm trying to explain. This is the evidence that we have. Sometimes I find that it's hard to find information because there's not a lot out there. But that does, that does help.

B (34:49)

Yeah, I'll actually, I'll try. I'll look up that Karen Anderson article so I can link it. So that way, if people want that like, specific article that you mentioned for, if they want to apply the three to one model. Are there any other, like, resources or like, contact info if you want to share that you'd like to share with people?

A (35:06)

I don't really have. I don't have like a, an Instagram account or like anything like that. So no, not at this time. I will say one more thing that like, for case managers to have, and that's been really helpful for me, I would just say, like establishing a network of like, other DHH teachers and educational audiologists. It can be a really lonely profession. Like for me, I'm the only teacher of the deaf in my district. So a couple of years ago, what I did is I had reached out to a few of the tods in the area and I said, hey, do you want to, like, have a group where we can collaborate and just talk about best practices or just shoot ideas off of each other? And so we actually still meet each quarter and we just sort of talk about community practices, and it's really, really great. Like, they are truly, like, my sounding board because I can go to them and they understand and they can provide such great feedback. And I just think having that sense of community is really important for this profession.

B (36:15)

Yeah, that's such a good idea. I feel like for. Because if you're the only TOD in your district, like, there are other districts, like, I assume someone is servicing them. Like, you can definitely, like, might take a little digging, but you could find out who they are and reach out to them. And I think a lot of people feel that way and would probably appreciate being reached out to to, like, have a little collaborative group. So, yeah, I think those are all great tips.

A (36:38)

Absolutely.

B (36:40)

All right. Thank you so much for all that great information. I think everyone will find it super, super helpful. I will link, like I said, I'll link that article and I'll also have below if you want to make a post in that TOD Facebook group that we have about, like, what state you're in, what area you're in. So if you want to connect with other tods, feel free to do that. Might be a nice way to, like, find your little group if you're the only tod. As always, the transcript and links and everything will be in the show notes and@listen topa.com and that's everything for today. We'll see you next week. Bye.

A (37:14)

Bye.