Anarchy in the UK

Summary

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Today, Explained – “Anarchy in the UK” (July 15, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Sean Rameswaram and Noel King (hosts) dive deep into the current state of political chaos in the UK. After a string of prime ministerial resignations, a surge of anti-establishment sentiment, and the rise of unconventional figures like Count Binface, British politics has reached a level of volatility unseen in generations. The episode examines the roots and reality of this instability, focusing on economic stagnation, political disenchantment, and culture wars—with insights from journalist Tom McTague (New Statesman) and reporter Idris Kalun (The Atlantic).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Britain’s “Weird Times”: Unprecedented Political Instability

• Traditional “island of stability” upended:
  • “We just held steady with Margaret Thatcher for 10 years or Tony Blair for 10 years. And now we have become Italy, only with bad weather and worse food.” – Tom McTague (02:20)
• Cyclical replacement of Prime Ministers:
  • The UK will soon witness its seventh PM in a decade, a process fueled by general frustration and loss of confidence.
  • In parliamentary systems, leaders can be ousted much more quickly than presidential ones if they lose Parliament or public confidence.
• Wider context:
  • Disruption in UK politics mirrors trends across Western democracies—economic anxiety, immigration debates, and the impact of social media.

2. From Labour’s “Landslide” to Collapse

• Keir Starmer’s short-lived era:
  • Labour won a “landslide” in 2024, giving Starmer an “astonishing majority” (04:55).
  • Starmer’s approach: cautious, methodical, technocratic—prioritizing incremental change over sweeping reforms.
  • Lack of a compelling vision led to public disillusionment.
    • “He stood on a manifesto of change in quotes…without much substance to it.” – Tom McTague (05:07)
    • “Mistake after mistake...repeated U-turns, failure to tell a convincing narrative.” (05:48)
• Labour’s internal coup:
  • Labour MPs, fearing for their seats due to Starmer's unpopularity, forced him out.
    • “If they hung around with this guy any longer…they would all lose their jobs.” – Tom McTague (06:12)

3. Andy Burnham: The ‘King of the North’ Ascends

• Background and persona:
  • Former Mayor of Manchester, Burnham brings a working-class, Northern ethos, compared to “the Rust belt Midwest” in American terms.
  • Seen as genuine and energetic—a potential blueprint for broader UK rejuvenation.
    • “I always knew one day I would seek to go back to Westminster to complete that unfinished business.” – Andy Burnham (06:44)
• Hopes for stability:
  • Burnham’s Manchester is cited as a rare British success story; seen as a possible model for national recovery.

4. Nigel Farage & the Insurgency of the ‘Populist Right’

• The perpetual outsider gains ground:
  • Farage, once introduced by Trump as “Mr. Brexit,” finally won a Commons seat with his Reform UK party.
    • “He is a kind of charismatic figure, a very good public speaker, very hard to pin down, speaks kind of fluently and off the cuff.” – Tom McTague (09:24)
  • Hardline stances on immigration, taxes, and patriotism resonate with a frustrated electorate.
    • “The Conservative Party is not on the right in any measurable way. 14 years that brought us the highest tax burden since 1947.” – Farage supporter (09:08)
• Facing scrutiny:
  • Farage’s rise has led to increased investigation of his backers and finances, prompting him to orchestrate a by-election to regain his seat after stepping down (10:32–10:55).

5. The Farce & Farce of Count Binface

• A symbol of absurdity and protest:
  • The episode begins and ends with nods to the surreal figure of Count Binface, who campaigns in a trash can helmet.
  • His whimsical manifesto—nationalizing Adele, renaming London Bridge after Phoebe Waller, mandating unicycles for rule-breaking cyclists—reflects public frustration and a desire for novelty in politics (00:26).

6. Has the UK Become ‘Ungovernable’?

• A reflection of broader global disarray:
  • Tom McTague argues today’s turbulence is “parliamentary democracy at its messy kind of fundamentals.” (11:47)
  • The UK’s struggle to adapt to changes in global power, economic trends, and the digital era mirrors the uncertainty confronting other Western nations.

7. Economic Stagnation: “As Poor as Mississippi”

• Idris Kalun’s reporting:
  • The UK is now comparable to America’s poorest state in standard of living—a shocking reversal over 18 years of wage and GDP stagnation.
    • “America’s poorest state is on par with the UK...” – Idris Kalun (17:34)
• Acute regional disparities:
  • London remains wealthy, but most of the UK—especially cities like Stoke-on-Trent—struggles with low wages, poor job prospects, and faltering industry.
    • “London itself doesn’t tell the whole story.” – Idris Kalun (18:24)
    • “Salaries are very, very low...Junior doctors, for example, have been on strike 15 times in the UK over their salaries.” – Idris Kalun (18:44)
  • “Comparable...to the gaps between East and West Germany.” (19:44)

8. Stoke-on-Trent: Pottery Capital in Decline

• From industrial pride to post-industrial neglect:
  • The collapse of ceramics manufacturing, high energy costs, and shuttered factories illustrate national economic issues.
    • “When I visited, one of the few remaining kilns had trees growing in the crevices because of how, you know, just dilapidated things have become.” – Idris Kalun (20:42)

9. Root Causes: From Crisis to Austerity to Brexit

• The 2008 financial crisis as turning point:
  • Post-crisis, real wages and productivity flatlined.
  • Conservative-led austerity further gutted public spending and eroded services, worsening conditions outside London (22:00–23:07).
• Connection to Brexit:
  • Disaffected areas, hit hardest by austerity, drove the Brexit vote—hoping for improvement, but now experiencing even greater hardship (24:00).

10. Big Ambitions, Bureaucratic Paralysis

• Symbolic infrastructure failures:
  • Massive projects like HS2 high-speed rail are plagued by delays, cost overruns, and “bat tunnels” for protected animals—wasting money and failing to deliver results (24:42–25:37).
  • This is mirrored across many “big ideas” in British governance.

11. Leadership Crisis: Can Burnham Reverse the Trajectory?

• Cautious optimism for new leadership:
  • Burnham’s track record in Manchester offers hope.
  • Skepticism remains: If Burnham can’t deliver, voters may turn more radically toward Farage or even more unconventional candidates (26:18–end).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We have become Italy, only with bad weather and worse food.”
  —Tom McTague on the UK’s instability (02:20)
• “Change begins now.”
  —Keir Starmer upon his initial victory (05:03)
• “He's just made mistake after mistake as Prime Minister...”
  —Political commentator on Starmer's downfall (05:48)
• “I always knew one day I would seek to go back to Westminster to complete that unfinished business.”
  —Andy Burnham on ascending to PM (06:44)
• “He is the figure on the populist right...stood outside of the Conservative Party and challenged it for not being Conservative enough.”
  —Tom McTague on Farage (08:40)
• “It didn’t do anything. But you know, Mississippi is America’s poorest state...America’s poorest state is on par with the UK.”
  —Idris Kalun on his article’s title (17:34)
• “London itself doesn’t tell you the whole story.”
  —Idris Kalun on regional inequality (18:24)
• “One of the few remaining kilns had trees growing in the crevices because...just dilapidated things have become.”
  —Idris Kalun in Stoke-on-Trent (20:42)
• “The country isn’t where it should be. It is stuck in a rut and clearly we can’t go on like this.”
  —Andy Burnham (07:23)
• Count Binface’s manifesto:
  “Nationalize Adele, build at least one affordable house. Tide nurse's pay to that of ministers. Rename London Bridge after Phoebe Waller.” (00:26/11:17)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:01: Opening remarks on England vs. Argentina, Count Binface mention
• 02:08: Intro to UK’s political chaos
• 02:20: Tom McTague on UK’s instability
• 04:48: Labour landslide & Starmer’s rise
• 05:30: Critique of Starmer’s cautious style and removal
• 06:44: Andy Burnham steps in
• 08:40: Profile of Nigel Farage and rise of Reform UK
• 10:32: Farage’s financial scrutiny and by-election
• 11:47: Is the UK ungovernable? Big global context
• 17:21: Idris Kalun on the UK’s economic stagnation
• 20:19: Stoke-on-Trent case study of decline
• 22:00: Financial crisis → austerity → Brexit
• 24:42: The saga of HS2 and infrastructural dead ends
• 26:10: Can a new leader fix the UK?
• 27:33: Episode closes with Count Binface’s catchphrase

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Tone & Style

• Wry, perceptive, sometimes darkly comedic—particularly in references to British “eccentricity” and the farcical elements of its current politics.
• Reflective of deep frustration but also a lingering hope that new leaders or new ideas might break the cycle.

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This episode delivers a sharp, comprehensive look at why the UK is “big mad,” why protest candidates are resonating, and why, despite decades of aspiration and reform, Britain’s malaise increasingly reflects global disarray—with a uniquely British flavor.

Transcript

[Host]

It's a big day for England. They're facing off against Argentina in the Men's World cup in Atlanta.

[Idris Kalun]

But back home, things are kind of messy.

[Host]

Voters are big mad. Yet another prime minister is about to lose his job and one of the main opposition figures is being challenged by a guy called Count Benface who wears a trash can on his head.

[Andy Burnham]

Oh my goodness.

[Nigel Farage Supporter]

Looks like something out of Star Wars.

[Count Binface]

National policies nationalize Adele, build at least one affordable house. Tide nurse's pay to that of ministers. Rename London Bridge after Phoebe Waller. I'll make cyclists to disobey the highway code have to ride unicycles instead.

[Host]

Sadly, today explained from Vox will not be about Count Benface. Instead, we're going to talk about the political chaos that's led to this moment where voters are excited about a man wearing a trash can on his head.

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[Idris Kalun]

Today is gonna be explained to you

[Host]

today explained Sean Rama's firm. We asked Tom McTague editor in chief at New Statesman in the UK to join us and tell us why they're about to have their seventh prime minister in a decade.

[Tom McTague]

We are living through very, very weird times here in Britain, so we're just not used to this. You know, we sort of prided ourselves on being this island of stability in a crazy world, we could smugly look out on countries like Italy or Australia as they churned through their prime ministers. And we just held steady with Margaret Thatcher for 10 years or Tony Blair for 10 years. And now we have become Italy, only with bad weather and worse food. Look, I think big picture, we're actually not that different to the rest of the Western world in this regard. In at least all of the same reasons that cause disquiet in the United States or in France or in Germany are the same kind of reasons that are causing political disquiet here. So, you know, immigration, so everyone's coming here. Poor economic growth, wages need to be raised, a lot more, living standards not improving as quickly as we're used to. Inflation, post pandemic inflation.

[Idris Kalun]

Bloody hell, everything has just gone so up.

[Tom McTague]

All of that comes together and it creates similar forces that you see in the us Right? So we have, you know, electoral coalitions, the rise of people who can communicate super well on, on social media in the new age who grab hold of

[Keir Starmer]

attention, but, you know, our woke culture is not protecting the interests of the British people.

[Junior Doctor]

Green Party just hit a major milestone for the first time.

[Nigel Farage Supporter]

Allowing people to, to come into Britain on those boats is directly endangering the safety of women and children in our country. I think it's disgusting.

[Tom McTague]

It's just that I think what is happening here is that that is happening in our parliamentary context rather than a presidential context where, you know, you elect a president and they are there for a full term, you know, whether they're unpopular or not. Here, if you lose the confidence of the public or the confidence of members of Parliament, then suddenly you can be out, out on, you know, within weeks or months.

[Interviewer]

Well, let's talk about the last time there was a major shift. It was in 2024 when voters had become wary of the Conservative Party, right, in the uk and that's when they elected the Labour Party and its leader, Keir Starmer into office.

[Tom McTague]

They elected them with a landslide, a

[Narrator]

Labor landslide and then some.

[Keir Starmer]

We did it.

[Tom McTague]

An astonishing majority. They got in the House of Commons enough to basically do whatever you want.

[Keir Starmer]

Now it has arrived. Change begins now.

[Tom McTague]

But I think once he got into power, he didn't really know how he wanted to change the country. He stood on a manifesto of change in quotes. You know, it was a kind of hopey changey thing, as you guys put it, without much substance to it.

[Keir Starmer]

I just do not accept that Britain is broken. There are so many opportunities to make a Difference.

[Tom McTague]

In one sense, he was quite a small C Conservative man. He wanted to just get this thing working again. And he thought you could do that through sensible, incremental, rational, technocratic change. And I think that analysis has proven fundamentally flawed.

[Political Commentator]

He's just made mistake after mistake as Prime Minister. Whether it's the repeated U turns, whether it's his failure to tell a convincing narrative to the British people, it turns out that for many people, he's not been the Prime Minister they hoped he would be.

[Financial Advisor]

How do you think Keir Starmer's done in the last year? In one word?

[Interviewer]

One word, two words.

[Political Commentator]

Absolute.

[Interviewer]

What follows Keir Starmer? Does the Labour Party retain control of Parliament?

[Tom McTague]

Yes. So the Labour Party, it's. The Labour Party fundamentally, has kicked out its own Prime Minister. It's, you know, based on the fact that he was deeply, deeply unpopular in the country and they thought if they hung around with this guy any longer that they were all screwed, basically, and that they would all lose their jobs. That's the reason why he's been removed from power. He lost the support of his members of Parliament and his cabinet, who eventually turned on him and looked to the man who was going to replace him, a guy called Andy Burnham, who is the Mayor of Greater Manchester.

[Andy Burnham]

It is with some sadness that this result brings an end to my wonderful nine years as mayor of Greater Manchester. I always knew one day I would seek to go back to Westminster to complete that unfinished business.

[Interviewer]

Tell us a bit about him. I mean, they call him the King of the North.

[Count Binface]

Yeah.

[Tom McTague]

You know, like the Game of Thrones stuff. He's been sort of come down with his. I don't even know what they're called, White Walkers, is it, or something.

[Interviewer]

It is.

[Keir Starmer]

He's been styled by some as the

[Tom McTague]

King of the north, but who really is Andy Burnham?

[Andy Burnham]

The country isn't where it should be. It is stuck in a rut and clearly we can't go on like this.

[Tom McTague]

The north of England is, I guess the equivalent is the Rust belt Midwest kind of vibe. It's a, you know, it's. It's seen as a place that is a bit more down to earth. It's a bit more post industrial, you know, it's got more economic problems. It's a place which used to be rock solid labor, but has moved to the right.

[Narrator]

Manchester, long contested as England's second city, but now a potential blueprint for the whole of the UK to change direction.

A city that once lost its aspirational residents to London. That trend now firmly reversed. Today More people are arriving from the capital and moving to it, eager for a slice of Manchester success.

[Tom McTague]

And so I think there is an opportunity here for Andy Burnham to win the next election and stick around for a bit longer.

[Interviewer]

You know, you talk about leaders in the UK thus far having lacked a mandate or perhaps a broad vision for the country. I wonder if the person who has those things right now is Nigel Farage. Could you tell our audience a bit about him?

[Tom McTague]

Yeah, sure. I mean, Nigel Farage was the man that was introduced to America by Donald Trump as Mr. Brexit. He is the figure on the populist right of British politics who has stood outside of the Conservative Party, the traditional party of the right here, and challenged it for not being Conservative enough, for not being patriotic enough, for not being tough enough on borders and immigration.

[Nigel Farage Supporter]

The Conservative Party is not on the right in any measurable way. 14 years that brought us the highest tax burden since 1947. 14 years that saw mass immigration.

[Tom McTague]

All of the things that, you know, happened to the Republican Party from the Tea Party, right, or from Donald Trump. It's just that he did that from outside of the Conservative Party. And he is a kind of charismatic figure, a very good public speaker, very hard to pin down, speaks kind of fluently and off the cuff.

[Nigel Farage Supporter]

Fancy a Peroni? A pine Estella? Ed Miliband says that to save money, pubs should serve lager warmer. He is a cretin. Imagine it, warm lager.

[Tom McTague]

And he, at the, I think something like the sixth or seventh time of trying, was finally elected to the House of Commons at the last election for his insurgent populist party called Reform uk. And from that position, he has taken the party into the lead in the polls. But something else is going on now. Where? Because he is a prospective future Prime Minister now he is facing a level of scrutiny that he hasn't faced before.

[Idris Kalun]

Who's the 32 year old convicted fraudster who funded Nigel Farage?

[Nigel Farage Supporter]

I've got to ask you a question about this 5 million pound gift from this crypto billionaire. With all due respect, what's it got to do with you?

[Reporter]

Nigel Farage has resigned, but there's a twist. Farage has quit his seat in Parliament in order to trigger a special election in which he says he will run and plans to win, thereby returning to the House of Commons.

[Narrator]

Now, so far, one of the only few who say they will stand in the Clacton by election is Count Binface. Good morning from space. Hello to you. First question, why would an intergalactic space warrior want to Stand to be the MP for Clacton.

[Count Binface]

Why not?

[Narrator]

It's a good question. Tell me about your manifesto. What can you offer?

[Tom McTague]

So all sorts of stuff is going on in British politics which sounds completely wild.

[Interviewer]

People are looking at the situation, this run of prime ministers, this ascendancy of Nigel Farage, who's a bit of a incompetent and a bit of a firebrand, I suppose, but they look at the situation and they say the UK has become ungovernable. What would you argue the situation is, Tom?

[Tom McTague]

Look, I would argue that it's parliamentary democracy at its messy kind of fundamentals. You know, Britain is a country, like many countries in Western Europe, which is struggling to work out how it's going to make its way in the world in the 21st century, in a world where so many of the assumptions which we have come to take for granted no longer appear to be holding a United States that is a trusted ally that is changing free market economics, global free trade appears to be ending. And you add into that social media AI revolution, all of this and it feels like actually, actually I think the turmoil in British politics is just a reflection of a kind of turmoil in, in the world and in, in the global economy. You know, you can see the same sorts of questions going on in, in Canada and Australia and France and Germany. I don't think anyone really has the, has the answers yet and Britain certainly doesn't.

[Reporter]

Foreign

[Host]

Tom's [e-mail] the UK is going through some of the same frustrated political motions we're seeing elsewhere, sure. But there is something exceptionally British about this mess and we're going to hit that next on Today Explained.

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[Idris Kalun]

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[Financial Advisor]

Cause I

[Tom McTague]

wanna pray Today Explained My

[Idris Kalun]

name is Idris Kalun and I'm a staff writer at the Atlantic.

[Interviewer]

And for the Atlantic, you recently wrote a piece titled How Britain Became as Poor as Mississippi. And the first question I have to ask you is what did Mississippi do to you?

[Idris Kalun]

It didn't do anything. But you know, Mississippi is America's poorest state and it's Often the benchmark that people compare themselves to, both in America and outside of it. And we chose the comparison to make the point that actually, you know, living standards in the UK have stagnated. That's really what's gone on here. And for 18 years, wages have not grown, GDP has barely grown. And the result is that, you know, over that time period, America was growing spectacularly. And now America's poorest state is on par with the uk. But really the story here is about what went on in the last 20 years and why the UK is kind of stuck in place economically.

[Interviewer]

And you reported this story out in Britain.

[Host]

Right.

[Interviewer]

How does this poverty you're talking about manifest? Because I imagine if people go to London for Wimbledon or something, they're not feeling the poverty that you write about.

[Idris Kalun]

Yeah, London's, you know, a great global, cosmopolitan place, and it's, it's, it's a great place to be. But in the same way that you don't get a feel for America by visiting New York or San Francisco, London itself doesn't tell you the whole story. And, you know, it is the kind of thriving metropolis in the uk and a lot of the rest of the country is not doing nearly as well. You know, one thing that I think people are astonished to learn about the UK is that salaries are very, very low. So Americans who are interested in moving to the UK will often encounter salary offers that are a half, maybe a third less than what they're making here. Junior doctors, for example, have been on strike 15 times in the UK over their salaries. So last month, for my normal salary, I made about £3,000.

[Junior Doctor]

What would be your starting salary as a doctor?

[Tom McTague]

So starting around 30k for tax, if

[Idris Kalun]

you're a British civil servant, which, again, you know, they're this, you know, kind of the backbone of the British state. Their salaries are less than £36,000 a year.

[Andy Burnham]

I'm a civil servant. I won't give you my exact salary, but in my job it starts from about £26,000.

[Tom McTague]

So the pay isn't brilliant, but apparently the pension is good in the end.

[Junior Doctor]

Do you mind showing roughly how much you make on an annual basis?

[Political Commentator]

43.

[Junior Doctor]

And do you think you're paid fairly for the work that you do?

[T]

No.

[Idris Kalun]

So London is doing really well, but outside of it, things are much worse. It's comparable, one researcher, Anna Stansberg, told me, to the gaps between east and West Germany, that's kind of as big as we're talking. So unless you're going to those places, you're not Fully capturing what the experience of being British is and participating in the British economy.

[Interviewer]

And you went to one such place. You left London and went to a place called Stoke on Trent, which a lot of people might not be familiar with. Can you tell us why you went there and what you discovered?

[Idris Kalun]

So Stoke on Trent used to be the ceramics capital of the UK and really of the world.

[T]

And so the urban landscape of the Staffordshire potteries developed with pot banks and housing crowded closely together. The next day, Queen Mary visits the potteries and pays an informal call at the famous Wedgwood factory, one of the oldest in Britain and which carries the name of British craftsmen all over the world.

[Idris Kalun]

And it used to be dominated by these structures called bottle kilns. These are these massive ovens that used to fire in the air. All of those kilns are not working anymore. The number of ceramics potteries that are left are very, very few. When I visited, one of the few remaining kilns had trees growing in the crevices because of how, you know, just dilapidated things have become. And it wasn't just that things had declined over the decades, but it was also an immediate kind of recession. So a small number of ceramics workers had continued up until this point and a lot of them are now going out of business because electricity costs have tripled in the last few years. In the uk, they have some of the most expensive electricity in the world.

[Narrator]

People across Scotland are facing a huge rise in their energy bills.

[Keir Starmer]

Industrial electricity prices have soared since the pandemic. Higher than Italy, Germany, France are more than four times the price of costs in the us.

[Idris Kalun]

And that obviously is not good for older industries like ceramics. But it's also not great if you want to be attractive for new industries like AI.

[Interviewer]

How do we get to this point where the economy in England and across Britain is so depressed?

[Idris Kalun]

So the turning point is really the financial crisis. Another nail biting day for dealers on the London stock.

[Tom McTague]

Shares in the country's biggest banks were sold down and down again.

[Idris Kalun]

Up until that point, the UK had been growing pretty strongly. Through the Blair years, they were very, very comparable to American living standards. And after the financial crisis, things just fall apart really for the country. So wages just don't increase after inflation. From 2008 to 2024, there's no movement. I mean, maybe 1% cumulatively. Productivity, which is really the ultimate engine of growth in any economy, also comes very close to stopping over that time. In the uk there's a National Health Service and you know, everyone is insured by right, the quality of The National Health Service has also taken a beating over the last 10 years. And so, you know, these are kind of headline numbers, but like, what, what happened, I think after the financial crisis, a decision was taken by the Conservative government at the time to reduce spending. This was a policy known as austerity.

[Tom McTague]

They knew the spending cuts were coming and now Britons know just how deep and painful they'll be.

[Idris Kalun]

The biggest losers, following the Chancellor's emergency budget in June, according to a think tank, are the country's poorest. And it cut things like benefits, it cut local government services, it hurt the NHS in terms of its capital budget. And all of those things caused kind of scarring in terms of the population, in terms of their ability to eventually go on and do economically productive things. It is also one reason that Britain voted for Brexit.

[Narrator]

That's a bit rude to say to keep people out of our country, but to give our people jobs than that

[Nigel Farage Supporter]

we're a dust bin for foreign people.

[Political Commentator]

All our resources are pushed the limits. Schools, hospitals, nhs, everything, everything.

[Idris Kalun]

And the places that were harmed the most that saw the greatest cuts in austerity were the places that voted for Brexit. By the largest margin. Stoke on trend kind of pops up again. There it experienced very, very large cuts in government services and it was voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, to the point that one politician called it the Brexit capital of the uk.

[Interviewer]

And does Brexit make their fortunes better or worse?

[Idris Kalun]

I don't think there's anyone who could say that Brexit has made things better for the uk, even supporters of Brexit. Britain has had big ideas for how to change its economic fortunes. And I think one of the most telling examples is HS2, which is the high speed rail line that was supposed to connect London with Birmingham with Manchester, Leeds.

[Narrator]

In 2009, Britain decided to take a step into the future with the promise

[Idris Kalun]

of economic growth, low carbon travel, more capacity and some of the fastest trains on Earth. It has tripled in cost to more than $100 billion. It's going to take 30 years to complete. It is not even going to go to Manch, it's not even going to go to Leeds. It's just going to be a line from Birmingham to London which already exists. It's going to cost £100 billion and it's going to have, you know, it's been beset with all of these permitting problems. There's going to be a special bat structure.

[Narrator]

This is the HS2 bat tunnel, a 100 million pound 1 km shed to protect the estimated 300 bats in woodland nearby.

[Financial Advisor]

I don't really see why we should spend 100 million quid on basically a cage for a high speed train. Like bats fly in the air. They can just fly over.

[Nigel Farage Supporter]

Well, that is the key thing.

[Keir Starmer]

Why can't they fly?

[Idris Kalun]

And you see this kind of problem replicated in all sorts of British ambitions, big and small. So there was an effort to study whether or not you should build a tunnel underneath Stonehenge. So they studied for 30 years whether or not you should just go underneath. And I think they spent almost £180 million and ultimately came up with nothing. Like literally nothing was built. It was just spent studying the problem. And that is something that's very familiar to Americans, this kind of pathology. But it is just prevalent all over Britain.

[Interviewer]

And with the current crisis of leadership we've got in the uk, do you see there being more harm before you actually have solutions being implemented?

[Idris Kalun]

So, as someone who's just written something quite pessimistic about Britain, I feel a bit optimistic about the leadership change. Andy Burnham was the mayor of Manchester, which has been one of the places that has actually been the exception to the rule of British doom and gloom. And I think that the story that he's able to tell about how he's going to improve things in the country is a compelling one. But I think the fact that Starmer failed really reinforced the idea that neither party knows how to fix it. And I think if Burnham is also unable to do things at that point, I think the people inevitably turn to Farage and they turn to other parties. And so I think that the stakes are quite high in terms of governance, because I think that what comes after him is not a Labor or Conservative Prime Minister. It's someone else.

[Host]

As you heard earlier, Idris wrote How Britain Became as Poor as Mississippi. For the Atlantic, Miles, Bryan Reddit for Today explained. Jolie Myers edited Miles, David Tadashore and Patrick Boyd listened carefully and Gabriel Dunatov says Count Bin Face would be a miracle.

[Count Binface]

Why not?