Podcast Summary: Today, Explained – “Pop culture is conservative now” (Dec 12, 2025)

Overview:

This episode of Today, Explained explores the rightward shift of American pop culture in the era of President Donald Trump’s second term. Host Noel King and Max Tani (media editor at Semaphore) dissect recent headline-grabbing media mergers, Trump’s direct interventions in entertainment, and why, after decades as a tool for leftist social change, the “counterculture” has become increasingly conservative. Later, cultural critic W. David Marks explains the historical forces behind this swing, considering whether it’s a fleeting fashion or a structural change in American culture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Media Merger Wars and Political Intrigue

Timestamps: 02:14–07:40

• Netflix Acquires Warner Brothers:
  • Netflix announced an agreement to buy Warner Bros., gaining access to major franchises (e.g., DC Universe, “Casablanca”), sparking concern over further media consolidation.
  • Paramount, under the Ellison family, responded with a hostile bid, launching a campaign to appeal directly to Warner Bros. shareholders.
• Open Political Lobbying:
  • Both Paramount (with reported backing from Jared Kushner) and Netflix actively courted President Trump and his administration to support their respective deals.
  • Trump is openly involved in the outcome, with CEOs making visits to the White House; lobbying and relationships with Trump-world figures matter more than ever.

“Trump is being overt about how he wants to be involved in this deal. He literally said in an interview, ‘I'll be involved in that decision.’”
— Max Tani (05:47)

• Trump’s Interests:
  • The Ellisons have a long relationship with Trump, but he’s also said to admire Netflix CEO Ted Sarandos. Netflix’s absence of a traditional news division is seen as a strategic advantage.

“Netflix doesn't also have a news division, so there's not like this nightly or daily stream of content that’s pissing off the administration and the White House.”
— Max Tani (07:24)

2. Presidential Influence on Pop Culture

Timestamps: 07:40–12:13

• Rush Hour 4 and Rehabilitation in Hollywood:
  • Trump lobbied the Ellisons to reboot the “Rush Hour” film franchise, in part due to personal ties with Brett Ratner (the original director, now close to the Trumps and directing a Melania Trump documentary).
  • The Trump-era approach often foregrounds figures sidelined by #MeToo or other controversies, as part of an explicit anti-‘woke’ agenda.

“Trump has no scruples, and many of the people in his circles have very few scruples about bringing back or working with people who've been credibly accused of serious misconduct.”
— Max Tani (09:54)

• Trump’s Tastes and Hollywood Allies:
  • Trump is described as having eclectic, nostalgia-driven cultural tastes — a blend of Broadway show tunes and classic macho action movies from the 1980s and 90s.
  • Notably, his “Hollywood Council” features Stallone, Gibson, and Jon Voight.

“He’s definitely proven he is interested in this kind of testosterone-fueled version of the world…he’s a classic fan of both Broadway and macho movies and movie stars from the 80s and 90s.”
— Max Tani (11:26)

3. The Triumph of the “Red Lash” in Pop Culture

Timestamps: 12:04–13:45

• Cultural Vindication for the Right:
  • Trump’s reelection (2024) was seen by supporters as cultural as much as political victory, fuelled by the rise of independent podcasters and manosphere figures openly backing him.
  • There’s a belief that anti-Trump “gatekeeper” culture has lost relevance with the broader public.

“They saw this as a vindication that this was really the mainstream culture...the popularity of country music, bro podcasters, and Trump's reelection and said: this is mainstream American culture.”
— Max Tani (13:23)

4. How the Counterculture Swung Right – With W. David Marks

Timestamps: 16:18–24:47

• Vice Magazine & Transgressive Conservatism:
  • Marks traces the emergence of a right-wing counterculture back to Vice's early 2000s downtown New York scene, where founder Gavin McInnes began injecting right-wing, racially transgressive content as a form of rebellion.

“In the 21st century, if you want to be transgressive, which is a big part of cool, the right wing supplies more fuel for that.”
— David Marks (17:19)

• Pop Culture’s Liberal Years and the Inevitable Backlash:
  • Under Bush, antiwar, anti-right sentiment dominated with examples like Green Day and Michael Moore. The Obama years saw earnest, poptimist culture triumph: Taylor Swift, “Glee,” “Girls.”
  • Post-Obama, alienated conservatives felt sidelined by Hollywood’s liberal values, fueling demand for an oppositional pop culture.

“A giant swath of the United States [was] feeling like they were being left out of the culture and...wanted someone to come back into power and give them a little bit more symbolic glory.”
— David Marks (20:06)

• Transgression Cycles and Coolness:
  • Coolness requires an authority to rebel against, and with liberalism as the mainstream, genuine transgression became more right-leaning.
  • Conservative figures like Charlie Kirk turned traditional rebellion on its head — now, going to church and abstaining is “countercultural.”

“So much of conservative politics, all it is, is counter imitation. Now we're at a point where premarital sex and drugs are not taboo anymore. And so, if you want to show that you're not part of that group, you do the opposite.”
— David Marks (22:19)

5. Will the Pendulum Swing Back?

Timestamps: 23:08–25:22

• Cringe Resistance and Changing Fashion:
  • Marks observes that anti-Trump demonstrations (e.g., the “No Kings” rallies) are seen as “normie” and lack pop culture punch, while the cultural memory of the Women’s March resistance (with Beyoncé and “pussy hats”) is recent but feels outdated.
  • Until a new, truly transgressive left-leaning movement emerges, the conservative cultural moment may endure.

“There was more of a linkage between pop culture and the resistance in 2016. And I think we're not quite there in terms of pop culture going back to full resistance mode. That's still in people's memory quite fresh. And there is something cringe about it in that it feels like an old, stale fashion trend.”
— David Marks (24:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Trump had been talking to Larry Ellison, saying that he should bring back this buddy cop comedy series [Rush Hour]…I was like, this is too good to be true. And it turned out it was exactly true.”
  — Max Tani (08:18)

• “He's a classic fan of both Broadway and macho movies and movie stars from the 80s and 90s.”
  — Max Tani (11:26)

• “If you have transgressiveness be the central value of popular culture…and that coolness is the supreme virtue of consumer culture, then…transgressiveness obviously can be re-empowered and reinvigorated on the right.”
  — David Marks (21:02)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:14 — Max Tani introduces the media mergers
• 05:47 — Trump directly comments: “I'll be involved in that decision.”
• 09:23 — Discussion of Brett Ratner and the #MeToo rehabilitation trend
• 12:13 — “Red lash” and the triumph of conservative pop culture
• 16:18 — W. David Marks segment begins
• 20:06 — Conservatives feel "left out" and seek a return to symbolic glory
• 22:19 — The logic of countercultural shifts: church as rebellion
• 24:47 — Why culturally “cringe” resistance hinders a leftwards swing

Conclusion

Pop culture is conservative now reveals how power, rebellion, and the definition of “cool” have flipped. As Trump’s administration entangles itself in Hollywood and right-wing influencers become cultural vanguards, the idea of what’s edgy or mainstream is rewritten. While history suggests the pendulum could yet swing again, for now, the right is both the establishment and the counterculture — at least in the world of pop.