100 days of payback

Summary

Podcast Summary: Today, Explained – "100 Days of Payback"

Episode Information:

• Title: 100 Days of Payback
• Podcast: Today, Explained by Vox
• Hosts: Sean Rameswamy and Noel King
• Release Date: April 29, 2025

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I. Introduction

In the milestone episode titled "100 Days of Payback," Vox's Today, Explained delves deep into the first hundred days of President Donald Trump's second administration. Hosts Noel King and Sean Rameswamy explore the multifaceted strategies employed by Trump, emphasizing his aggressive agenda of retribution against political adversaries and institutional bodies. The episode features insightful discussions with Vox's senior correspondent Andrew Prokop and a compelling interview with former National Security Advisor John Bolton.

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II. President Trump's Second Term: An Overview

A. The Economy and Tariffs

Andrew Prokop outlines the economic strategies spearheaded by Trump, notably the imposition of tariffs aimed at revitalizing American industries. Reflecting Trump's rhetoric, Prokop notes:

Donald Trump (00:56): "It's a big deal. This is the beginning of making America rich again."

These tariffs are portrayed as a central element of Trump's vision to bolster the national economy, though they echo past protectionist policies like the Smoot-Hawley Tariffs, which Prokop suggests may become historically noted for their ineffectiveness.

B. Immigration Policies

The administration's approach to immigration remains stringent, with a pronounced emphasis on mass deportations. Prokop highlights:

Andrew Prokop (02:26): "Trump attempts to impose his mass deportation agenda, making the US a less welcoming place for foreigners."

This aggressive stance has led to high-profile battles and is expected to intensify as the administration progresses.

C. Government Dismantling and Spending Cuts

Elon Musk and Dogecoin symbolize a broader initiative to downsize government operations. Prokop describes these efforts as:

Andrew Prokop (02:26): "Dismantling government, cutting government spending. This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy firing federal workers."

This reductionist approach aims to minimize bureaucratic overhead, though its long-term efficacy and impact remain subjects of debate.

D. Retaliation and Retribution Agenda

Perhaps the most contentious aspect of Trump's strategy is his calculated use of federal power to punish political enemies and critics. Prokop identifies this as the administration's "most ominous" agenda:

Donald Trump (03:57): "I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution."

This campaign of retribution extends beyond political opponents to include former allies and institutions that Trump perceives as opposing his agenda.

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III. Targeting Institutions

A. Elite Universities

Trump's administration has systematically targeted elite academic institutions, particularly those deemed bastions of "wokeness." Prokop explains:

Andrew Prokop (08:49): "Elite universities were... deemed by Trump's top donors as centers of wokeness. By threatening their research funding and tax-exempt status, the administration aims to coerce these institutions into accommodating right-wing perspectives."

Harvard and Columbia University are among the primary targets, with moves to restrict their operational freedoms and influence.

B. Law Firms

In addition to academic institutions, high-profile law firms in Washington D.C. have come under scrutiny. Prokop attributes this to both personal vendettas and ideological battles:

Andrew Prokop (10:01): "These big law firms are centers of progressive activism through their pro bono work. The Trump effort aims to punish these firms, forcing them to align with his preferred causes."

The administration's actions include public attacks and attempts to curtail these firms' operations, reflecting a broader attempt to control legal and civic discourse.

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IV. Constitutional and Institutional Implications

The aggressive use of executive power raises significant concerns about constitutional integrity and the robustness of American institutions. Prokop and Ramswamy discuss the balance between presidential authority and ethical governance, questioning the sustainability of such an approach:

Andrew Prokop (11:25): "They're doing a lot of stuff that seems completely illegal. Why not both? They're pursuing both legal overreach and outright illegal actions."

The episode underscores the tension between the administration's actions and traditional norms of presidential restraint, highlighting fears of erosion in democratic checks and balances.

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V. Interview with John Bolton: Insights from a Former National Security Advisor

A pivotal segment of the episode features a candid interview with John Bolton, who served as National Security Advisor during Trump's first term. Bolton provides a nuanced critique of Trump's leadership style and its broader implications.

A. Trump's Leadership Style

Bolton distinguishes Trump's lack of a coherent ideology, contrasting him with historical authoritarian figures:

John Bolton (16:12): "Trump is a problem without that label [fascist]. He has caused a lot of damage... he has no philosophy. He has no grand strategy."

He emphasizes Trump's transactional nature and reactive decision-making, which undermine strategic governance.

B. Comparisons to Fascism

When prompted about John Kelly's characterization of Trump as a fascist, Bolton clarifies his stance:

John Bolton (16:38): "To be a fascist, you have to think at least some conceptual level, which Trump never does."

Bolton argues that while Trump's actions are authoritarian, they lack the ideological foundation typically associated with fascism.

C. First 100 Days of the Second Administration

Bolton critiques the coherence and sustainability of Trump's second-term policies:

John Bolton (19:31): "It's even more incoherent. What you're seeing in public now...he never said in public."

He suggests that while Trump's initial actions are assertive, their long-term effectiveness is questionable, predicting that many efforts will falter in subsequent administrations or face legal challenges.

D. Impact on Institutions and Future Outlook

Bolton offers a cautiously optimistic view on the resilience of American institutions:

John Bolton (21:38): "I don't think Trump is an existential threat. Our institutions are a lot stronger than him."

He acknowledges the administrative overreach but believes judicial and institutional checks will ultimately mitigate long-term damage. Bolton also touches on historical parallels, asserting that while the challenges are significant, they do not equate to the collapse of the Republic.

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VI. Conclusion

The episode wraps up by acknowledging the complex landscape of Trump's second term, marked by aggressive policies and a pronounced agenda of retribution. Hosts Noel King and Sean Rameswamy, along with guest John Bolton, highlight the precarious balance between presidential authority and institutional resilience. As the administration continues to navigate its first hundred days, the podcast underscores the critical importance of safeguarding democratic norms and maintaining institutional integrity.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Donald Trump (00:56): "It's a big deal. This is the beginning of making America rich again."

• Andrew Prokop (02:26): "Trump attempts to impose his mass deportation agenda, making the US a less welcoming place for foreigners."

• Donald Trump (03:57): "I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution."

• John Bolton (16:12): "Trump is a problem without that label [fascist]. He has caused a lot of damage... he has no philosophy. He has no grand strategy."

• John Bolton (19:31): "It's even more incoherent. What you're seeing in public now...he never said in public."

• John Bolton (21:38): "I don't think Trump is an existential threat. Our institutions are a lot stronger than him."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from the "100 Days of Payback" episode, providing listeners with a thorough understanding of the episode's exploration of President Trump's second-term strategies and their implications for American politics and institutions.

Transcript

[Noel King]

Noel King, host of Today, explained. We're here at 100 Days of Trump Part 2. They say they like to flood the zone. And boy, did the zone feel flooded.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Can you remember everything?

[Noel King]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Liberation Day. Backing off. Liberation Day.

[Noel King]

Greenland, Canada.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Canada, Ukraine, The Oval Office meeting with the yelling, thank you.

[Noel King]

The penny. They were gonna get rid of the penny. I think I still see pennies.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Shower heads.

[Noel King]

Shower heads. Immigration, Daylight Savings. I think we still have that, too.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

People who are citizens fighting with the.

[Noel King]

Courts, withdrawing from the Paris climate accords.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Doge Aid, Project Esther and antisemitism.

[Noel King]

Everything is computer going after Harvard, rewriting history. You did a show on that.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Donald Trump said there are two genders.

[Noel King]

The Pope's funeral.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Yep. The eggs are still pricey.

[Noel King]

A weird number of sig heils today.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

I think we focus on one main theme. How about that?

[Noel King]

Yeah. Which one?

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Revenge, Sean.

[Noel King]

Revenge.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Coming up on Today Explained.

[Chelsea Clinton]

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[Sean Ramaswamy]

You'Re listening to Today Explained. Okay, Andrew, go ahead. As always, give me your full name and tell me what you do.

[Andrew Prokop]

I'm Andrew Prokop, senior correspondent, Vox, covering politics.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

All right, so we're talking today because President Trump has now been in office for a thousand days. How would you say the first thousand days have gone?

[Andrew Prokop]

Time flew. I didn't really realize that it was the year 2028.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

But 100 days in, for clarity, what are sort of the big themes of the second Trump administration?

[Andrew Prokop]

I've been thinking about it as I've tried to, you know, rise above the day to day headlines and focus on the recurring stories. Things where big things have happened already that have made a difference. And I think there are really four stories of that nature so far. The first is the economy and tariffs.

[Donald Trump]

It's a big deal. It's a big deal. This is the beginning of making America rich again.

[Andrew Prokop]

The second, I would say, is immigration, as Trump attempts to impose his mass deportation agenda, as he is making the US A less welcoming place for foreigners generally. All sorts of big, high profile battles and showdowns, and we're probably just at the beginning of that.

[Donald Trump]

I'd like to go a step further. When I say I said it to Pam, I don't know what the laws are. We always have to obey the laws, but we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head with a baseball bat.

[Andrew Prokop]

The third, I would say, is Elon Musk and Doge and this general agenda of kind of dismantling government, cutting government spending. This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy firing federal workers. But the fourth, I think, and one in which in some ways is the most ominous, is what I view as Trump's agenda of retribution.

[Donald Trump]

I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. I am your retribution.

[Andrew Prokop]

He has been more willing than any other president in recent memory to use the power of the federal government against people who he views as his political enemies or people who are viewed as being on the left.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

There's. There's a strong argument that no one should be surprised by this, because when President Trump was candidate Trump out on the campaign trail, he repeatedly said he was gonna go after people, places, things. Instit is what we are seeing. I know you were watching that carefully. Is what we are seeing. What Trump promised.

[Andrew Prokop]

Well, he said different things at different times. There were some moments. I remember one moment when he was on Fox News and the host was basically begging him to say, I'm not going to seek retribution against my political enemies.

[John Bolton]

My question is very serious. 1. People are claiming you want retribution. People are claiming you want. What has happened to you done to Democrats. Would you do that ever?

[Donald Trump]

Look, what's happened to me has never happened in this country before. And it has to stop because.

[John Bolton]

Wait a minute, I want to hear that again. It has to stop.

[Donald Trump]

Well, it does have to stop, because we're not going to have a country.

[John Bolton]

And if you're elected. What does that mean? Define that.

[Donald Trump]

Look, what I've gone through, nobody's ever gone through. I'm a very legitimate person. I built a great.

[Andrew Prokop]

And I think he has chosen pretty much a maximally aggressive course as compared to, you know, all of the possibilities that had been expected as to how far he could go on this.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

If we focus at first just on Washington and on the mix of politicians and lobbyists, et cetera, who inhabit this place. Who's Trump gone after?

[Andrew Prokop]

Well, he's gone after a lot of people involved with the Biden administration. You know, Biden himself, several of his top officials. Officials.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

The security detail for Anthony Fauci was terminated last night. Sir, do you have a comment?

[John Bolton]

No.

[Donald Trump]

I think, you know, when you work for govern government, at some point your security detail comes off.

[Andrew Prokop]

He's gone after people who are involved in sort of the legal resistance against Trump or were involved in the cases that were about investigating or indicting Trump. But he's also gone after some of his own people or people who used to be some of his people.

[Donald Trump]

They all made a lot of money. They can hire their own security, too.

[Andrew Prokop]

Then there's the case of Mike Pompeo, who was Trump's Secretary of State in his first term. He seemed to be in line for another top appointment as recently as perhaps October 2024. But somehow people behind the scenes convinced Trump that Pompeo was somehow against him. And then suddenly, during the transition and at the beginning of the administration, we see these personal public attacks on Pompeo and then yanking his security details. A top aide associated with Pompeo, Brian Hook as well, someone who was on Trump's State Department transition team before suddenly being kind of penalized by Trump's retaliation. So he's really sort of used it, you know, against Democrats, against his critics, but also people on his own side who he feels like stepped out of line in some way or demonstrated insufficient loyal loyalty.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Mike Pompeo and Brian Hook are very interesting because the security detail for them would appear to matter. These are both men that have had threats to their lives. They both worked on Iran. How unusual is what Trump did when he said, no more security protection for you guys, even though there seem to be credible threats on your lives.

[Andrew Prokop]

Oh, this is extremely unusual. It's unprecedented, as far as I know. It's extremely petty. You know, the justification that they give is, oh, this is expensive, and we don't want to, like, fund it. But, I mean, that's just silly. It's a rounding error in expense. It's just like a personal form of payback that's like, hey, if you step one toe out of line, I'm not gonna, you know, make sure that a hostile foreign power doesn't assassinate you. I'm Gonna, you know, leave you open to that possibility. I'm not doing anything for you.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Let's move on to the colleges, universities, Columbia, Harvard, et cetera. We've covered on the show how Trump has gone after them. What is Trump's rationale for going after these colleges, which seem to fall mainly in the category of like elite.

[Andrew Prokop]

Elite universities were kind of in right wing thinking, were basically deemed of certain of Trump's top donors the center of wokeness. Like they were what unleashed wokeness on society. Right wing activists like Christopher Ruffo want to really kind of smash the universities. But of course, the public universities under left wing bureaucratic rule are hostile to open inquiry, hostile to civic debate, to really go after, as we, as we've seen, Harvard and this belief that the universities are the power centers of the left. And if you can take away their research funding, if you can threaten their tax exempt status, if you can threaten all kinds of other consequences, you will force them to behave in ways that are more accommodating to the right.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

He seems to understand that for some percentage of the population, it's gonna feel really good that he's going after Harvard. He talks less about his campaign of revenge on law firms. Again, these are elite law firms in Washington D.C. and other urban centers. What is, what is Trump doing to them?

[Andrew Prokop]

So this is more related to kind of the prosecutions and investigations of Donald Trump, which often involved certain people who either used to be or are at these law firms. And so I think he has some resentment about that. And then there's also, again, there's this right wing agenda, activist agenda as well, where they argue that, oh, these big law firms are kind of, in their own way, centers of progressive activism as well, in what's known as the pro bono work that, that they offer to do for various causes. So, you know, you have this, this Trump effort to kind of punish these big law firms and as we saw in universities as well, of kind of deals or agreements in which they say, oh, okay, we will do these things differently. We will pledge this amount of pro bono work or money to these causes that Trump likes and so on.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Yeah, you said earlier that a lot of this is unprecedented. And I wonder, Presidents can do a lot legally. They have a lot of leeway, even things that look a lot like revenge. How much of this is in the purview of what a president is allowed to do, but maybe ordinarily doesn't for reasons of self control, and how much is actually testing the power of what the executive branch is allowed to do.

[Andrew Prokop]

The president can do a lot of things that with his authority that he perhaps due to older notions of decorum or fairness or ethics that seem out of date in this administration that he would not have previously done. But they're also just doing a lot of stuff that seems completely illegal. And so why not both? They're pursuing both and they're going to see what sticks because they've fundamentally, fundamentally view politics and the purpose of government as about punishing their enemies and which in this case they've defined so broadly as to define like, as to encompass all sorts of liberal or left leaning institutions as well as the specific people and groups that had that have run afoul of Donald Trump personally.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Vox's Andrew Prokop, Sean Ramis firm, you're up next. Who do you got?

[Noel King]

We got actually someone who was a victim of President Trump's retribution season. I don't think he got mentioned in your conversation with Andrew, but former Ambassador John Bolton, who also lost his security clearance on day one. We're gonna hear from him. No support for today's show comes from upwork. Enough with downwork. It's time for upwork. Just like their name suggests, they want you to be able to up your level of work because as a small business owner, you want to be able to grow your business, but you don't want to take on more than you can handle. It's all about scalability. And with upwork, they say they'll help you find the right people to grow your business and at your own pace. Upwork says they can help you find specialized freelancers in marketing, development and design experts that can help you take your business to the next level. And even more, they say companies at every stage turn to upwork to get things done by assessing a global marketplace filled with top talent in IT, web development, AI design, admin support, marketing and more. You can visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's upwor.com upwork.com support for today explained comes from the NPR Politics Podcast. Politics might move fast, but the NPR Politics Podcast is there. Help decouple, clutter it all for you every day. It comes on every day. The NPR Politics Podcast team focuses on one thing and boils it down to 15 minutes or less. Each episode makes it easy for you to understand what's going on in politics, from the complete restructuring of the federal government to immigration policy to tariffs and trade to unpacking the first hundred dates of Donald Trump's second presidency. You can tune in to hear about what's been done, what's to come and what might change and of course, what it means for you. You can listen now to the NPR Politics podcast only from npr, National Public Radio, they call it. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Clinton]

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[Sean Ramaswamy]

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[Chelsea Clinton]

So listen wherever you get your podcast or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF.

[Noel King]

Today explain is back. And here's the reason I wanted to hear from John Bolton today. Bolton served in the first Trump administration as a national security advisor. He served alongside former chief of staff John Kelly, who last October told the New York Times that that he thinks Donald Trump is a fascist.

[John Bolton]

Well, I'm looking at the definition of fascism. It's a far right, authoritarian, ultra nationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized hypocrisy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy. So certainly in my experience, those are.

[Chelsea Clinton]

The kind of things that he thinks.

[John Bolton]

Would work better in terms of running America.

[Noel King]

But when John Bolton was asked about John Kelly's assessment, he basically said Trump's too dumb to be a fascist. I wanted to ask him if he still feels that way 100 days into Trump, too.

[John Bolton]

I mean, I don't disagree with John Kelly on his assessment about Trump, what Trump does and what's wrong with it. But to be a fascist, you have to think in at least some conceptual level, which Trump never does. Trump is a problem without that label and he has caused a lot of damage. He did in his first term. He will in his second term. I just don't like to get lost in the bumper sticker argument rather than arguing about substance. And I would say I don't think John Kelly disagrees with me on that.

[Noel King]

So you would quibble with the term fascist because it's just, what, simplistic or it's a slogan.

[John Bolton]

It's too far above Trump's capabilities I mean, he has no philosophy. He has in the national security space. He has no grand strategy. He doesn't do policy as we conventionally understand that term. This is difficult to accept. I know. It was difficult for me to accept that anybody could be so totally transactional, so totally focused on what's in it for him. But that's Trump. There are plenty of people around him with problematic philosophies, people who do have the ability to think at a more conceptual level, but what they say may ultimately be reflected in certain Trump decisions, but it's not because he shares their worldview or anything like that.

[Noel King]

What was your impression of his approach, if not something leaning towards fascism or authoritarianism when you were in his administration, the first go round?

[John Bolton]

Well, I think he wants to be the center of attention. I think that's probably his principal motivating factor. And I think his approach was once described by Charles Krauthammer very well. And Krauthammer said it to me, but I think he said it publicly on any number of occasions that he began by thinking Trump was an 11 year old, but he realized after a close evaluation that he was about 10 years off. Trump's really a one year old who just sees everything in the world and asks the question, what's in this for me? Somebody else, who I don't remember the name, observed that Trump doesn't have ideas, he has reactions. And I think that's also an important insight. So in my book, I said if you took all of his decisions in his first term, they'd be like a big archipelago of dots. A lot of the dots I agreed with. But if you tried to connect the dots, you're welcome to it. Trump himself couldn't connect the dots.

[Noel King]

What have you thought of the first hundred days of the second administration so far?

[John Bolton]

Well, I think it's even more incoherent. But what you're seeing in public now that many people find surprising, I think, is what many of us who were in the first term saw in private, but that he never said in public. A lot of these ideas have been kicking around. I think, obviously they spent the four years in exile at Mar a Lago planning their first hundred days. Much more was accomplished from Trump's point of view than in his first hundred days in the first term. I'm not sure, though, that history will record that after this burst of activity in the first hundred days, there's much more follow up that I think Trump will get bogged down in a lot of subsidiary issues that he happens tothat happened to catch his attention. For example, he's now chairman of the board of the Kennedy Center. And I can think of nothing more important than for a man who knows so much about buildings and the hospitality industry to spend a little time on the question of the rugs at the Kennedy center, the carpeting, the curtains and the stages. I mean, I think really some high level attention is required for that. And I think if, really, if I get his ear, I could get him over at the Kennedy center for a day, a week, for the next several months.

[Noel King]

I think you're getting at something that I'm constantly struck by, which is, while this seems like a serious administration with serious ideas of Project 2025, what have you, there's also all of these distractions that make this seem like a bit of a clown car. The Doge firings and then hiring back of nuclear safety personnel, the infamous Houthi PC small group chat. The tariffs. No tariffs. Tariffs. Just kidding. No tariffs. I saw someone say, I wonder if the fall of the Roman Empire was this stupid. And that really hit for me. But at the same time, you've got the campaign of retribution we've spoken about. You've got defying court orders and challenging the judiciary. You've got the silencing of speech left and right, the First Amendment. I mean, when you see these constitutional infringements, are you worried for the state of the Republic?

[John Bolton]

I don't think Trump is an existential threat. I think our institutions are a lot stronger than him. And not so much the fall of the Roman Empire, but the fall of the Roman Republic began with Sulla and then Pompey and then Catiline and then Julius Caesar, and I'll tell you, Donald Trump is none of those four, thank goodness. So I think we will survive. But I think many of the things you've mentioned he has singled out by executive order. For example, Chris Krebs, the former head of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Bureau at Department of Homeland Security in his first term for prosecution because he dared to say that the 2020 election was relative, was safe and free from interference in cyberspace, which Trump didn't want to. He singled out a fellow named Miles Taylor, who had been in chief of staff to the Secretary of Homeland Security. These are actions by a president that, with no predicate for a criminal investigation, that I think are very threatening. But I think you've got to evaluate all this. And there are many more. You've named some, we could name others. That's Trump making the first move and he's done all this, as you say, in the first hundred days. He's done it in Trump time because he stays up until 2 in the morning. He does. He's constantly active. The judicial system obviously doesn't normally react with such speed. So Trump makes his headline and then moves on to something else. And the real question is what has followed up. And I think if we come back in a couple of years, we'll see a lot of the effort of the first hundred days just in ashes because the courts will have held. I believe they will. I think they are fully independent. I'm not worried about that. I think that is the ultimate check. It obviously will have cost people money for attorneys fees and time and aggravation and concern. But I think a lot of these efforts will fail and they will set precedents that will make it even harder for a future president to try this kind of thing. I'm hoping, for example, that on tariffs, not directly what you're asking about, but I hope you know it was 95 years since the Smoot Hawley tariffs, which were an act of monumental stupidity in 1930. I think history will record that Trump Vance tariffs as another monumental act of stupidity and hopefully It'll be another 95 year long lesson. So from that perspective, a lot of what has happened in the first hundred days, we have to say, is incomplete because while Trump has moved his pawn to king four, the rest of the system is still reacting.

[Noel King]

You, of course, I believe, have worked under four presidential administrations, from Reagan to George H.W. bush to George W. Bush to of course, President Trump. Does that historical long view that you personally possess work to your advantage in these trying times of ours?

[John Bolton]

Well, we've suffered a lot worse in this country. We did have a civil war where over 600,000 soldiers died of one cause or another and the country moved on. So I'm not underestimating the problems that Trump is causing. I just think it's important to bring as many people along on the proposition that this is unacceptable. And I think sometimes using the rhetoric that says this is existential turns people off. And I'm looking to convince as many people as possible that this is an aberration in American politics, that it's not sustainable and particularly in the Republican Party, that The beginning in 2026, certainly in 2028, we've got to move on from it.

[Noel King]

Since you were looking ahead to the 2028 election, let me ask you quickly before we go about the 2024 election, I believe you said you wouldn't vote for either candidate and that you would write in a true conservative like Dick Cheney. Of course, Dick Cheney went on to endorse Kamala Harris. Did that change your mind when you were in the voting booth there?

[John Bolton]

Yeah, absolutely. I voted for Mike Pence.

[Noel King]

Justice for Mike Pence, who did his.

[John Bolton]

Job according to the Constitution on January 6, 2021.

[Noel King]

Are you hoping he's gonna run in 2028?

[John Bolton]

I don't know what he wants to do. America owes Mike Pence a big debt of gratitude. A lot that happened during the Trump administration, maybe I should say a lot that didn't happen during the first term of the Trump presidency you can attribute to him. And I hope he's not looking for publicity, but I hope he's kept careful notes of everything he did for posterity to know.

[Noel King]

Well, no one' that on this show before, sir. I appreciate you bringing that to light. Thank you for your time. Ambassador Bolton.

[John Bolton]

Thanks for having me.

[Noel King]

Appreciate it. John Bolton of the Bolton Pack, Noel.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Wonderful to hear from him. Today's episode was produced by Devin Schwartz and Victoria Chamberlain.

[Noel King]

We were mixed by Andrea Christie, Kristen's daughter, and Patrick Boyd.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

Amina Elsadi is our editor.

[Noel King]

Laura Bullard and Gabrielle Burbay were on the fax.

[Sean Ramaswamy]

I'm Noel King.

[Noel King]

Sean Ramaswooram Today.