Today, Explained – "$100,000 for a Visa"

Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Sean Ramaswamy
Guests: Michelle Hackman (Wall Street Journal), Britta Glennon (Wharton School, UPenn)

Overview

This episode tackles the Trump administration's sudden proposal to levy a $100,000 fee on H1B visa applications. Host Sean Ramaswamy speaks with Wall Street Journal immigration reporter Michelle Hackman about the origins, confusion, and industry reactions to the new policy. Later, economist Britta Glennon explains the ramifications for the US economy, innovation, startups, and outlines better reform options.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are H1B Visas and Why Are They Contentious?

[02:15 - 04:43] Michelle Hackman

• H1B visas are the main way skilled foreign professionals work in the US—used most in tech, finance, consulting, science, and healthcare.
• Only 85,000 regular slots are available annually (with some extras for universities and nonprofits), always oversubscribed and awarded via lottery.
• While prominent at giant tech companies, controversy mostly centers on IT outsourcing firms filling most positions with Indian men, offering labor at lower costs than in-house staff.
  • Notable Quote:
    “A lot of companies have actually laid off their internal IT and hired these sort of IT external companies on H1B visas to come work for them instead. That... is the big, big reason that a lot of people have issues with the H1B visa program.” – Michelle Hackman [03:53]

2. Origins and Aims of the $100,000 Fee

[04:43 - 06:44]

• Trump administration (both terms) has tried repeatedly to limit/reform H1B use, portraying it as undercutting American workers.
  • Earlier attempts included prioritizing higher salaries or more skilled applicants.
• The new fee is shockingly steep (previously $2,000–$10,000), apparently conceived alongside a “gold card”/pay-for-citizenship concept.
  • Notable Quote:
    “Let's attach a huge fee to [H1B visas] too, so that we're only getting the best, the wealthiest, the smartest... so that we can sort of downsize the overall immigration program and only get the best, the richest, the smartest.” – Michelle Hackman [07:11]

3. Industry Reaction and Policy Chaos

[08:02 - 10:26]

• The rollout was “one of the messiest” Hackman has seen—full of confusion even among government officials. The Commerce Secretary, who doesn't control immigration, initially announced it.
• Still unclear:
  • Is the $100,000 fee a one-time payment or annual?
  • Will it apply retroactively, to renewals, or only future applicants?
• Policy details changed over the weekend; companies and visa holders remain confused and anxious.
  • Notable Quote:
    “Literally on Tuesday, we reached out... and they told us it actually still hasn't been decided, that they actually still are looking at making this an annual fee instead of a one-time fee. So I think a lot remains to be seen.” – Michelle Hackman [09:50]

4. Legal Risks & Tech Industry Response

[10:26 - 13:29]

• Likely to face lawsuits arguing presidential overreach; visa fees are meant to cover processing, not to price out applicants.
• Trump appears to use executive authority akin to the ‘Muslim ban.’
• Some big tech CEOs (e.g., Nvidia) give muted or even supportive responses, possibly hoping higher barriers will help them snap up more visas (less competition from smaller firms).
  • Notable Quote:
    “Some tech CEOs feel like... if there’s $100,000 fee and we can afford that, and also that means that not a lot of other people are going to apply for this visa, we’re going to at least get all of the visas we want.” – Michelle Hackman [12:23]

5. Economist’s Take: The Policy Will Hurt America

[16:42 - 23:50] Britta Glennon

• Glennon argues the new fee will hurt US innovation, startups, universities, and make the US less attractive to global talent. [Key Points:]
  • Immigrants (14% of population) drive 36% of US innovation, are far more likely to start businesses, and make Americans more productive.
  • Past immigration restrictions resulted in huge declines in US patenting and innovation.
  • When visas are restricted, firms offshore jobs or shrink, startups falter, and US workers lose opportunities.
  • Abuse by outsourcing firms is a real concern, but the fee is a blunt instrument—hurts everyone, especially startups, universities, entry-level roles.
    • Notable Quote:
      “The problem with a $100,000 fee is that is not targeted in any way. And so it’s going to disproportionately hurt, you know, those startups who can't, who definitely can't pay that fee. It’s going to hurt entry-level positions. It’s going to hurt universities who rely on H1B visas.” – Britta Glennon [22:30]

6. Why the Fee? Misconceptions and Political Rhetoric

[19:59 - 21:09]

• Policy seems rooted more in the political narrative of protecting 'American jobs' rather than economic evidence.
• Common misconception: the labor market is zero-sum—a job taken by an immigrant is lost to an American. In reality, immigrant workers spur economic growth, demand, and further job creation.
  • Notable Quote:
    “They are increasing demand for other jobs… they’re likely to create jobs that way. And so it’s relying on this false notion that if an immigrant takes a job, there are fewer jobs for everyone else. And that's simply not true, sort of theoretically or empirically.” – Britta Glennon [21:18]

7. Meaningful Reform: What Would Actually Work?

[24:07 - 25:49]

• Glennon’s recommendations:
  1. Raise the annual H1B cap ("way too low"—hasn’t changed since the 1990s).
  2. Replace the random lottery:
     • Use an auction system or a lottery weighted by salary (but with safeguards for startups and entry-level applicants).
• Raising the cap requires Congressional action, which is unlikely, but auction/weighted lottery could be pursued administratively.
  • Notable Quote:
    “I think the raising the cap, which actually, I think is the bigger issue, that seems less likely because that would actually require an act of Congress. I don’t think that’s something the administration can actually do without Congress.” – Britta Glennon [25:22]

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen.” – Doug Limu [00:15]
• “Acetaminophen. Is that okay?“ – Doug Limu [00:20]
• ”I’m a very intelligent person.“ – Doug Limu [19:45]
• ”Immigrants, we get the job done.“ – Doug Limu quoting Lin-Manuel Miranda [18:13]
• “Yes, more than one [famous person went to Wharton]. Actually.” – Britta Glennon [16:21]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:15] – Michelle Hackman explains H1B structure and controversy.
• [04:43] – Discussion of Trump’s H1B reform history and $100K fee.
• [08:02] – Initial confusion and industry reaction to the fee.
• [10:26] – Legal questions and tech industry’s muted response.
• [16:11] – Britta Glennon on economic impact and research.
• [19:59] – Debunking misconceptions about immigrant labor.
• [24:07] – Glennon outlines effective reforms.

Tone and Style

The episode employs a mix of dry humor (especially toward political soundbites and rhetoric) and lucid, well-researched argumentation. Britta Glennon and Michelle Hackman provide expertise with clear, jargon-free explanations. Sean Ramaswamy steers the conversation with clarifying questions and asides that help connect technical points to broader political narrative and real-world stakes.

Conclusion

The $100,000 H1B visa fee proposal emerges as more an instrument of deterrence shaped by politics and misconceptions about labor markets than evidence-based policymaking. Both experts recommend more precise reforms: raising caps and targeting abuses—rather than simply pricing out all but the wealthiest firms and applicants. For now, confusion and legal wrangling are likely to continue—but as the episode’s guests argue, the stakes for the US economy and innovation are high.