A live-forever diet?

Summary

Today, Explained – Episode Summary: "A Live-Forever Diet?"

Release Date: November 12, 2024
Host: Noel King
Guest: Dr. Saul Justin Newman, Researcher at the Oxford Institute for Population Aging, University College London
Reporter: Anahad O'Connor, Nutrition Reporter for The Washington Post's Wellbeing Desk

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Introduction: The Quest for Longevity Through Diet

In the episode titled "A Live-Forever Diet?", hosts Noel King and Anahad O'Connor delve into the enduring question of whether specific diets can significantly extend human lifespan. The discussion opens with intriguing examples of individuals experimenting with unique dietary habits in pursuit of longevity.

• Noel King introduces the concept by highlighting Brian Johnson, a venture capitalist who starts his day with a nutrient-dense breakfast consisting of broccoli, cauliflower, black lentils, garlic, ginger, hemp seeds, and a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil (00:00).

• Anahad O'Connor mentions David Murdoch, a 101-year-old chairman of Dole Foods, who adopts unconventional practices like eating the skins of bananas, oranges, and pineapples (00:23).

• The hosts also reference the Blue Zones diet, inspired by regions worldwide where people frequently live to 100 years old (00:41).

Historical Perspective: Diet and Health Through the Ages

Anahad O'Connor provides a historical overview, explaining that the association between diet and health is ancient, tracing back thousands of years. He notes that throughout history, various diet and health gurus have emerged, advocating different nutritional paradigms with claims of enhancing longevity.

• O'Connor discusses the rise and fall of diet gurus, such as Jerome Rodale, who championed the organic food movement in the mid-20th century. Rodale's confident assertion that his diet would enable him to live to 100 was tragically proven wrong when he suffered a heart attack at 72 (03:04).

Contemporary Diet Trends: Empowerment and Skepticism

The conversation shifts to modern-day diet trends, emphasizing the allure these diets hold for individuals seeking control over their health and longevity.

• Anahad O'Connor outlines several popular diets:

  • Keto Diet: High in fat and protein, low in carbohydrates. Typical breakfast includes eggs, avocado, and bacon (05:37).
  • Vegan Diet: Excludes all animal-based foods, focusing entirely on plant-based nutrition.
  • Paleo Diet: Mimics ancestral eating patterns, avoiding processed foods.
  • Intermittent Fasting: Alternates periods of eating with fasting, touted for benefits like improved glucose levels and slowed aging (06:27).

• Noel King shares a personal anecdote about eliminating and later reintroducing ultra-processed foods, illustrating the challenges of adhering to strict dietary regimes (07:43).

• Dr. Saul Justin Newman emphasizes the complexity of nutrition science, highlighting the difficulties in conducting long-term, controlled studies to definitively link specific diets to increased lifespan (10:35).

The Controversial Blue Zones: Unveiling the Truth

A significant portion of the episode critically examines the Blue Zones, regions purported to have populations that routinely reach 100 years of age. Dr. Saul Justin Newman presents a scathing analysis of the Blue Zones' credibility.

• Definition and Original Claims:

  • Dr. Newman explains that Blue Zones are regions where people supposedly live to 100 at extraordinary rates, supported by nine lifestyle factors known as the "Power Nine" (17:16).

• Investigative Findings:

  • Upon investigating, Dr. Newman discovered substantial flaws in the Blue Zones' data and methodologies. He found that many claims about dietary habits in these regions were unfounded or misrepresented.
  • For instance, in Okinawa, contrary to Blue Zones' assertions, local diets were found to be low in vegetables and high in processed meats. Historical consumption data from Okinawa showed minimal intake of root and leafy vegetables, challenging the narrative presented in Blue Zones literature (21:05).

• Fraudulent Practices:

  • Dr. Newman uncovered instances of pension fraud within Blue Zones, where individuals were recorded as centenarians to illicitly collect pensions despite being deceased (20:01).

• Critique of Blue Zones' Popularizers:

  • Dr. Newman criticizes Dan Buettner, the journalist who popularized Blue Zones through National Geographic and subsequent books. Buettner's selection of regions like Loma Linda, which does not statistically outperform other American regions in life expectancy, is deemed misleading (23:18).

• Conclusion on Blue Zones:

  • Dr. Newman asserts that while healthy behaviors are beneficial, the specific claims made by Blue Zones advocates do not hold up under scrutiny. He advises consulting medical professionals over following potentially misleading dietary advice from commercial sources (24:24).

Realistic Approaches to Longevity: Beyond Diet Fads

In the final segments, Dr. Newman offers pragmatic advice on what genuinely contributes to increased lifespan based on reputable data from sources like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

• Key Factors for Longevity:

  • Avoid Smoking: Non-smokers can gain up to seven years of life expectancy (25:07).
  • Regular Exercise: Engaging in consistent physical activity can add four to six years (25:07).

• Complexity of Nutritional Science:

  • Dr. Newman acknowledges the ongoing debates and uncertainties in nutrition science, emphasizing that definitive dietary prescriptions for longevity are elusive. He recommends relying on healthcare professionals for personalized advice (25:33).

Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with a reiteration of the importance of evidence-based approaches to health and longevity. The hosts highlight the need for skepticism towards sensational diet claims and encourage listeners to prioritize proven lifestyle factors over unverified dietary trends.

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Notable Quotes:

• Noel King:
  "We do know that someone will always be trying."
  (00:00)
  (Introducing the relentless pursuit of longevity through diet.)

• Anahad O'Connor:
  "Human beings have always known instinctively that there's some connection between what we eat and how we feel and how healthy we are."
  (02:39)
  (Emphasizing the longstanding belief in diet-health connections.)

• Dr. Saul Justin Newman:
  "I found that centenarians in the blue zones were missing or dead when the study was conducted."
  (20:02)
  (Revealing discrepancies in Blue Zones' data.)

• Dr. Saul Justin Newman:
  "If you don't smoke, you'll gain seven years of life expectancy and if you exercise, more is better, but generally four to six years."
  (25:07)
  (Highlighting the most impactful factors for longevity.)

Production Credits:

Produced by Zachary Mack and Hadi Moogdi. Edited by Miranda Kennedy, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, and engineered by Andrea Christian’s daughter and Patrick Boyd.

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This summary provides an overview of the "A Live-Forever Diet?" episode of "Today, Explained" by Vox, capturing the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn by the hosts and guest experts on the complex relationship between diet and longevity.

Transcript

[Noel King]

Today on the show, we ask can a diet help us live much, much longer? We do know that someone will always be trying. There's venture capitalist Brian Johnson and his vegetables for breakfast. This is freshly made with broccoli, cauliflower, black lentils, garlic, ginger, hemp seeds and.

[Anahad O'Connor]

One tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil.

[Noel King]

There's David Murdoch, the 101-year-old chairman of Dole Foods and his somewhat bizarre free I eat the skins of bananas, the skins of oranges, the skins of pineapple. There's the Blue Zones diet, which is taken from places in the world where people are said to routinely live to 100.

[Anahad O'Connor]

The five pillars of every longevity diet in the world are whole grains, greens, tubers like sweet potatoes, nuts and beans.

[Noel King]

And then there's the possibility that this is a lot of nonsense coming up on Today, explained.

[Claire White]

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[Noel King]

This is today, explained Anahad O'Connor is a nutrition reporter for the Washington Post's Wellbeing desk. He's been writing about food and health for more than two decades. Anhad for maybe 10 or 15 years now, we've heard about these tech guys in Silicon Valley trying to hack their health and live forever. When did people start thinking diet equals health and health equals longevity?

[N/A]

So I think this probably goes back to the dawn of our species. Throughout the centuries, there have always been diet and health gurus and doctors who promoted different foods. And so human beings have always known instinctively that there's some connection between what we eat and how we feel and how healthy we are. That goes back at least thousands of years, if not longer.

[Noel King]

At least thousands of years. So it is not 10 to 15 years. And in the Bay Area, I was wrong about that. Tell me about some of the kind of luminaries or the people that we've chosen to follow over the years when they tell us what we should eat.

[N/A]

We know in the United States that certainly throughout the past century, there have been diet gurus who promoted things like the low carb diet and the Paleo diet and the south beach diet, um, the low fat diet. These often start with people, sometimes doctors, sometimes just, you know, everyday people who decide that they know, you know, the foods or the diet that are going to help us live a longer, healthier life. And the interesting thing is that I started researching this years ago and I noticed that a lot of these diet gurus actually tend to die prematurely. Ooh. So you look, for example, there was a famous guy named Jerome Rodale, and you might recognize that last name. He helped to pioneer the organic food movement in the United states in the 50s, 60s and 70s, and promoted the idea that organic foods were going to make you healthier, help you live longer. He famously went on the Dick Cavett show in the early 70s and was bragging about how healthy he was because of his diet and told Dick Cavett he was going to live to be 100 and was saying that he had just fallen down a flight of stairs and he laughed all the way down as he was falling down the steps. He was 72 at the time. And he said, I'm going to live to be 100 unless I'm, quote, unquote, run down by some sugar crazed taxi driver. And Cavett was really enamored of this. And then they go to break, and then they heard Jerome Rodale, who's sitting on the couch next to him, make a sort of snoring sound. It turns out he had had a heart attack right there on the couch, moments after bragging about how he was going to live to 100 and died sadly. But that shows never aired for obvious reasons.

[Noel King]

Let's talk about some of the other diets that we hear a lot about these days that we're told will help us live longer, if not forever. What springs to the top of your mind?

[N/A]

So there are so many nowadays, and I think there's something special about this idea that your diet can improve your health because people find it very empowering. And we know there's this connection between food and your health. And if you just make the right choices, then you will hit the longevity lottery. And so the popular diets today would be certainly the Keto Diet. Which is the diet that Atkins famously promoted.

[Claire White]

It's been around actually a long time. The medical version of keto has actually been around for 100 years.

[N/A]

It's very low carb, tends to be very high in fat and also protein.

[Noel King]

Breakfast, for example, is like eggs, avocado, bacon or sausage, things like that.

[N/A]

There's the vegan diet, which of course is no animal based foods. It's all plant based foods. There is the paleo diet, which supposedly is the diet that our ancestors ate. And so people who follow this diet think, well, these are the foods that we evolved to eat. So if you just eat these foods and avoid the processed foods and the packaged foods that there are today, then you'll be healthier.

Get in touch with the caveman inside. A paleolithic diet seriously reduces your risk for diabetes.

Intermittent fasting has been a very big diet trend, very buzzy, something that a lot of people here in the tech community in the Bay Area love to follow.

[Noel King]

Now, some experts say that this helps consumers take in fewer calories, lowers your blood pressure, improves glucose levels, and even slows down the aging process.

[N/A]

There's also low calorie diets make delicious.

[Noel King]

Recipes that are lighter in calories and added sugar.

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

Weight watch's easy. 1, 2, 3. Success is a different story. Eat any food you crave. Every food has a points value.

[Anahad O'Connor]

The SlimFast plan can live up to its pledge because each shake is a delicious, nutritious, low calorie meal.

[N/A]

A big buzzword in the diet space today is ultra processed foods. And these are the packaged foods with lots of additives and, you know, sugar and fat and artificial colors and flavorings and a lot of nutrition. Researchers think if we just avoid these foods, we'll all be much healthier. These are the foods that are actually killing.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Mechanism of how ultra processed food can be associated with colorectal cancer is again.

[N/A]

Through leading to increasing weight, increasing risk.

Of diabetes and other metabolic syndrome factors.

[Noel King]

Closely tied to colorectal cancer.

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

In the last decade, the evidence has been slowly growing that ultra processed food is harmful for us in ways we hadn't thought.

[N/A]

So there's lots of different diets and approaches to this.

[Noel King]

Our listeners will know that about a year ago, I got really obsessed with ultra processed foods. We did an episode. I was refusing to buy bread from the supermarket. I was insisting that I didn't get home.

[Claire White]

And it went on.

[Noel King]

That went on for maybe three months, four months, five months. I gave it up this morning. I was in a crappy mood and I ate a Snickers bar. Like literally 6am so which diet are you on?

[N/A]

I tend to follow a diet where I get a lot of whole foods. I try to avoid ultra processed foods, but not always. I also have two little kids so they tend to dictate our shopping and purchasing patterns. But I try to eat foods that are high in protein because I know that promotes satiety, also helps to promote weight loss, generally good for your health. Avoid the ultra processed foods with lots of additives and high in sugar and fat and salt. And try to eat sort of a Mediterranean kind of diet, a diet that has a lot of unsaturated fats. So things like olive oil, nuts, seeds, seafood. I like fermented foods like yogurt and kimchi and sauerkraut because these foods have probiotics, which are the friendly bacteria that help your gut microbiome and that also plays a role in promoting good health.

[Noel King]

Have you heard of Blue Zones?

[N/A]

Absolutely. Blue Zones have been very influential in the nutrition and lifestyle medicine space. So the idea behind Blue Zones is that these are sort of pockets around the world where people have an unusually long lifespan compared to others. And it's thought that this because of the different lifestyle habits they follow.

[Anahad O'Connor]

People in Blue Zones are living a long time because they're socializing, because they know their purpose and they live their purpose. They live near nature, they keep their families close by. And we can map all of these to higher life expectancy.

[N/A]

The diets they follow, which are supposedly plant based with lots of fiber, lots of unsaturated fats, very little red meat, supposedly according to the Blue Zones book. But this idea has become really controversial lately and there's some accusations that it's basically a mirage.

[Noel King]

We're going to talk about those accusations later in the show. But what seems to be at the heart of the skepticism about any of these diets is that diet research does not seem that trustworthy. We hear that something is really bad for us and then we hear, no, it's, it's fine for us. Remember the, I guess it's. This has been playing out over the last year or so. But remember we were all told that like a glass of wine is great for you. And then we learned, no, actually we don't think it is. Why is the research into what we eat and drink and how it affects our health, why is it so dicey?

[N/A]

Gosh, it's because nutrition science is so hard to do. Because if you want to do a study, for example, to answer this question, what is the diet that is going to help people live the longest. To do that study, you would have to recruit a large group of people, probably at least 1,000, 2,000 people, split them into groups, ideally from a very young age, and have them strictly follow different diets. A vegan diet, a Mediterranean diet, a low carb diet, and just make sure they're eating all those specific foods. But we eat several times a day and we get cravings and we live in a world where there's so much food marketing and advertising, and we go to grocery stores where there are literally thousands and thousands of different food items we can buy. And so to do this study rigorously, you'd have to, you know, ideally actually give people the meals they're supposed to eat. You have to follow these people closely, make sure they're eating the foods. You have to look at their medical records. You have to follow. Follow them for years, if not decades, and see how these diets are impacting their lifespan. And that's just almost impossible.

[Noel King]

All right, so you've been covering food and Health for 20 years. I've been reading articles like yours for 20 years. Surely I would guess there is a new diet trend coming. Do you agree? And have you any idea what it is?

[N/A]

It's really hard to predict what's going to be next. There's always something new. And people are so tantalized by these diet gurus and health gurus who say, aha, I have found the secret. I know the magic sauce. You know, if you just eat these foods, you'll be healthier, you'll live a longer life. I think people like having access to that special knowledge. It's very empowering. And oftentimes they will go on these new diets and feel better and think, aha. You know, they start writing about it on Twitter and on social media and putting out TikTok videos. Oh, I'm just eating this food and look, I've lost weight. It's been amazing. But part of the reality is that almost any diet is going to be better than the standard American diet. So diet gurus are always pointing to say, look, these studies found that people lost this much weight on a vegan diet. These studies show that low carb diet was better, or these studies show that a paleo diet was so great for diabetes. Well, yeah, that's oftentimes because they're comparing this particular diet to the standard American diet that people are eating, which we know is terrible for you because we can see what's happened to obesity and chronic disease rates in the past, you know, four or five decades. So almost any diet you follow that's not the standard American diet is going to be better for you.

[Noel King]

That was Anahad O'Connor of the Washington Post coming up, the man who blew up the blue zones Support for Today Explained comes from Quince the Danes out there may know that the Danes have a phrase that makes the rounds every fall hygge cozy, warm contentment. It means the warm cup of tea, the blanket, the good book, and perhaps wrapping yourself in a new sweater from Quince. Their Mongolian cashmere sweaters start at just $50. They have a huge lineup of fall ready items including beautiful leather jackets, cotton cardigans and other Hygge inducing pieces. Here's my colleague Claire White.

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[Noel King]

It's today explained. I'm Noel King. Dr. Saul Justin Newman is a researcher at the Oxford Institute for Population Aging at University College London. He's currently writing a book on Eep fraud and wishful thinking in aging research. And he says he found both of those things in the Blue Zones. What is a Blue zone?

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

Well, the Blue Zone was originally claimed to be a region where people reached a remarkable age at a remarkable rate. And the usual cutoff that they provide is age 100. So the general idea is that somewhere in the world there are these remarkable regions where people reach age 100 at extraordinary rates.

[Anahad O'Connor]

What if we could reverse engineer longevity? Well, I spent the last 20 years trying to do just that. But instead of looking for answers in petri dishes or test tubes, I found five places around the world where people are getting the outcomes we want.

[Noel King]

And where are they?

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

Well, they were claimed to be originally five. There was one in Costa Rica, one in Japan, one in Greece, one in America and one in Sardinia.

[Noel King]

Why are they said to reach the age of 100 in these places?

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

Well, there are nine claims for lifestyle that go along with the Blue zones and they sort of called the power nine. There's the idea that people move naturally, that they have a sort of life purpose, that they eat a lot of plants, that they drink, that they have a sense of belonging, that they put loved ones first, and that they have a sort of what's called a right tribe, which is a bit of a vague definition, but the general idea is that they have a social circle who.

[Noel King]

Found them, who popularized the idea of the Blue zones.

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

So Dan Buettner is a person who became famous for effectively riding their bicycle, lots of interesting places and founding a company, a marketing company off the back of that. And he decided while he was cycling places for the National Geographic that he wanted to know about the secrets of longevity.

[Anahad O'Connor]

I never set out to be a longevity guru or fix America's healthcare system. I got here in a very unexpected way.

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

He read this paper about the Blue zones in Sardinia. And he went around applying that concept to a large number of places. He effectively had pitched this to National Geographic as a story. And the story was wildly successful.

[Noel King]

And it makes sense, right? You open up your National Geographic, there's a story about these places in the world where people seemed to live forever. You can see why it's popular. You're a researcher on aging. When did you start looking into blue zones?

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

I started looking into blue zones when I had published a theoretical paper that effectively says most of our old age data in the world should be statistical junk. And then when I started to look at individual cases, I instantly found out that the way that extreme age cases are validated is terrible. The world's oldest man was one of the first cases I investigated. And it turned out that he had three birthdays and no birth certificate.

[Noel King]

Huh.

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

Yeah, it's remarkable. And he's still on the record books now. When I started digging deeper and deeper, I of course came across the blue zones. And at the time, I had mapped more than 80% of the world's 110 year olds. And what was striking is that those 110 year olds were not falling in regions with good health, they were falling in regions that had terrible health. And surprisingly, that was the shared characteristic of most blue zones. I found that centenarians in the blue zones were missing or dead when the study was conducted. A centenarian is someone who is 100 years old or older. I found that the health in the blue zones was poor before, during, and after they were established. I found that none of the supposed lifestyle patterns that were happening in the blue zones were actually happening. And I found that pension fraud was absolutely rife throughout many of the blue zones, so that many of these people were collecting the pension from the graveyard, in effect, where they were getting older on paper, but they were already dead.

[Noel King]

When you discovered that the places in the world that were said to be blue zones had some pretty shoddy record keeping and may even have had some fraudulent record keeping, where did your mind go? What did you think?

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

Well, I mean, I was shocked at the depth of this. You know, I was expecting that there were going to be errors, there were going to be problems. But this is like discovering that 82% of data from the Hubble Space Telescope is just dust on the lens. And this got even worse when I started looking at these Power 9 claims for lifestyle that were supposed to support this remarkable attainment of blue zone longevity.

[Noel King]

What did you find?

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

First case I investigated was Okinawa, because Okinawa has it's Japanese and have beautiful surveys. And none of the Power 9 claims stood up to independent scrutiny. The central claim that people in Okinawa eat a lot of plants was nonsense. We have an extraordinary detail of people's diets in Okinawa going back to 1975, and they are dead last for root vegetable consumption, leafy vegetable consumption, pickled vegetable consumption. On the front page of the Netflix documentary is some purple sweet potatoes. Okinawa eats the least purple sweet potatoes or any sweet potato in all of Japan out of 47 prefectures, and they always have. So it's completely at odds with the characterization that's that's occurred in these cookbooks. The diet looks absolutely nothing like what's in the cookbooks.

[Noel King]

We do hear in a lot of news stories about Japanese people tending to live longer than other people. Is that wrong?

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

On average, no. But the reason is much more simple, and that's that Japanese people are rich, they have universal health care, and they have a generally healthy lifestyle. But in the details, this all falls apart because Okinawa is the least healthy province. It has twice the poverty rate of any other region. They eat huge amounts of meat. Most of it is highly processed. Even the simple claims do not match the claims made by the Blue Zones people.

[Noel King]

So Okinawa not looking good. Any of the other Blue Zones leap out at you as places where, oh, boy, this is just not great.

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

It's all not great. The American Blue Zone. Loma Linda. Dan Buettner has said to the New York Times that the way he found Loma Linda, it was that his editor at the magazine has said, you need to find an American Blue Zone. And so he's gone out and found Loma Linda. I should add, the CDC measures Loma Linda for life expectancy, and it's pretty average. At least a quarter of America lives longer than Loma Linda.

[Noel King]

We learned in the first half of the show that there are some things you can do, there are some ways in which you can eat that seem to extend your life, and they fall in line with what the Blue Zones seem to endorse. Limit your stress, eat whole foods, eat oatmeal, eat organic if you can. Are you taking issue with the fundamental idea that if people in Okinawa did eat the way the Blue Zone Cookbook claims that they eat, what is going.

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

On here is that none of these recommendations bear any connection to the region's actual behaviors. Are they healthy in some cases? Of course. Sure. Exercise is good for you. That's fine. But that's not because it looks like anything like what people do in these regions. So I think the takeaway there is that yes, there are healthy behaviors, but this is not the person you should listen to for advice. If you want to be healthy, go and talk to your gp. Don't listen to someone who's selling you a cookbook.

[Noel King]

All right, so if living in Okinawa or Loma Linda is not the key to living to 100, what is the key to a longer life? What do you think and what do you know?

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

Well, I know that the CDC estimates this. They estimate the life expectancy costs of different behaviors and they're very simple. If you don't smoke, you'll gain seven years of life expectancy and if you exercise, more is better, but generally four to six years. And those are the biggest, most important things you can do.

[Noel King]

Don't smoke, exercise. You did not say anything about food.

[Dr. Saul Justin Newman]

Food is a mess. We can't even decide if eggs are good for us after 50 years. I can't make any jud on this because it's a mess. One striking thing about this is that Ancel Keys, who came up with the Mediterranean diet, he based the Mediterranean diet off the concept that people in southern Italy lived past 100 at remarkable rates. Now that that's not true, you know you have to ask some questions. So yeah, when you ask me about diet, I don't know. I don't know. I talk to your gp. That's really what it comes because your GDP is not selling you anything. I hope to God.

[Noel King]

That was Dr. Saul Justin Newman of the Oxford Institute for Population Aging at University College London. We did reach out to Blue Zones LLC for comment about Dr. Newman's claims and we didn't hear back. In other publications and on the Blue Zones website, Dan Buettner disputes The claims that Dr. Newman makes. Today's episode was produced by Zachary Mack and Hadi Moogdi. It was edited by Miranda Kennedy, it was fact checked by Laura Bullard, and it was engineered by Andrea Christian's daughter and Patrick Boyd. I'm Noelle King. It's Today Expl.

[N/A]

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