AI music is here

Summary

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Today, Explained – "AI music is here"

Vox | Aired January 9, 2026
Host: Noel King | Guests: Ian Kreitzberg (Puck, Hidden Layer newsletter), Denis Bouchard (Scientific American)

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Overview: The Arrival and Challenges of AI Music

This episode dives deep into the explosion of AI-generated music — from its rapid proliferation on streaming platforms, the difficulty in distinguishing it from traditional music, to its implications for listeners, artists, and the industry at large. Hosts and guests tackle big questions: Does AI music have heart and soul? Should music lovers take AI music seriously? And how are record labels adapting (or clashing) with the AI wave?

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1. AI Music’s Sudden Ubiquity

Timestamps: 00:14 – 04:37

• Noel King introduces the massive scale:
  • "Deezer says 50,000 AI generated tracks are being uploaded every day. Spotify is declining to comment. LOL." (00:16)
  • AI music is now competing on the charts: "AI music is also charting, Breaking Rust's Walk My Walk top Spotify's viral 50 songs in the US. Zanaya Monet debuted on the Billboard charts." (00:21)
• The Velvet Sundown case study:
  • Ian Kreitzberg reminds listeners that this wasn’t a classic band: "They're a band... They're an AI Music project is perhaps more accurate. They got popular... doing an iteration of sort of 1970s inspired classic rock..." (02:20–02:40)
  • Suspicion grew due to the unnatural pace of releases — "three or four records out... in a couple weeks". (03:16)

Notable quote:

"You can kind of dupe people into listening to fully AI generated music. And it's not immediately apparent that this was not produced by people."
—Ian Kreitzberg (03:56)

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2. Listener Attitudes toward AI Music

Timestamps: 04:37 – 06:19

• “Music nerds” are disturbed by the lack of “heart and soul” in AI music; but casual listeners are harder to sway:
  • "A lot of people just don’t care. In the earlier days… it didn’t sound good... when you surpass that point... people don’t care.” —Ian Kreitzberg (05:16)
  • However, disclosure matters: labeling something as AI-generated makes people like it less.

Notable exchange:

Noel King: “So what? So they avoid it? They don't click on it? What do they do?”
Ian Kreitzberg: "They've done studies... if you label an image as being AI generated, people tend not to like it as much as they like an image that is labeled as being created by a person." (05:57–06:06)

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3. AI Music Technology & Industry Shakeups

Timestamps: 06:19 – 12:18

• Main platforms: SUNO & Udio, both allowing anyone to generate music via text prompts. (06:40)
  • Example: "I want a stirring early morning gospel song..." and AI delivers instantly. (06:53–07:10)
• The music industry’s initial reaction: Lawsuits.
  • RIAA sued leading AI music companies over "inputs" (copyrighted data scraped for training) and "outputs" (AI-produced tracks too similar to existing works). (07:43–08:07)
• Then, a pragmatic turn: partnerships.
  • Lawsuits against AI music firms were settled. Now, major labels have deals with AI tech: "Universal partnered with Udio and Warner partnered with Suno and Universal announced a partnership with Nvidia..." (08:55–09:28)

Notable quote:

"These labels don’t want to piss off their major artists because that's their current business model. And making sure you have the fandom of Taylor Swift is important to not, you know, push away."
—Ian Kreitzberg (11:21)

• The hedge: Labels aim to cover themselves whether AI becomes dominant or just another niche.
  • Key idea: Allowing fans to remix or customize songs via AI without alienating human artists or their existing audience. (11:48–12:18)

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4. First-Person Experiment: Living with AI Music

Denis Bouchard’s Month-Long Journey
Timestamps: 16:45 – 26:48

• Denis Bouchard, Scientific American reporter, listens to only AI-generated music he made himself for a month.
• The emotional gap: When recreating classics (like "For What It’s Worth"), the sound is convincing but the "story" and authentic connection are missing.
  • "If I had heard that song in a coffee shop or a restaurant, I wouldn't have known it was AI... But... there was just no story for me. There was no attachment to that song." (18:50)
• The evolution: At first, cognitive dissonance is strong, but over time Bouchard becomes more comfortable, even playful and curious with AI prompts:
  • "What has surprised me with it is now I'll be walking somewhere and I'll think, what if I were to ask it to combine these styles..." (24:27)
• AI’s uncanny authenticity:
  • "A lot of the AI music that is popular... — it often is creating songs that are very soulful, very gritty... Those songs all feel just really authentic." (22:15, 23:14)
  • The illusion is so good it’s almost undetectable:

    “Do you think if someone had handed you a playlist... five are AI, five are not, do you think you'd be able to tell the difference?”
    Denis Bouchard: "No, I don't think so." (22:11)

Notable moment:

"This machine did not fall in love. This machine did not suffer these experiences... It was actually really bothering me... I just would have cognitive dissonance..."
—Denis Bouchard (24:55)

• Looking ahead: Bouchard predicts young generations will adapt seamlessly.
  • "In 10 or 15 or 20 years, there are going to be a lot of teenagers who look at the discussions we're having right now and go, what are these people talking about? Like, this is totally normal. Why would anybody feel so conflicted about this?" (25:55)

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5. Key Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Dreams pass before my eyes / A curiosity dust in the know.” —Charlie Kirk, referencing AI-composed faux-classic rock (03:17)
• "They sued... The RIAA announced that major record labels... are suing two of the leading AI music companies, alleging massive copyright infringement..." —Ian Kreitzberg (07:56)
• "Now I'm at the point where I don't worry about the connection to the human. Like I did in the beginning." —Denis Bouchard (24:27)
• “I really hope that artists are as protected as possible and remunerated properly. But I think this is going to fit into our lives a lot more smoothly than I think we're realizing.” —Denis Bouchard (26:25)

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6. Takeaways – The Future of AI Music

• AI-generated music is indistinguishable (to most) from human music, especially in casual listening settings.
• Mainstream listeners may not care about the origins unless they’re told — but labels do, and so do devoted music lovers.
• Lawsuits gave way to industry-wide partnerships — a hedge against disruption, not a war.
• Record labels see potential in customizable or remixable fan experiences, but integrating AI while keeping artists happy will be a delicate balance.
• For individuals, AI music’s lack of personal narrative or artist backstory remains a hurdle — but, like Bouchard, many may adapt or even embrace it.
• The shift is generational: what is eerie and novel now could soon just be “normal.”

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

We are Charlie Kirk. We carry the flame. We'll fight for the gospel. We'll honor his name.

[Noel King]

AI Music is everywhere. It's slopping around your algorithm and your platforms. One of them, Deezer, says 50,000 AI generated tracks are being uploaded every day. Spotify is declining to comment. LOL. AI music is also charting, Breaking Rust's Walk My Walk top Spotify's viral 50 songs in the US. Zanaya Monet debuted on the Billboard charts. And yet many people cannot tell the difference between AI Music and music music. And if, to paraphrase Taylor Swift, that makes you want to die, son, do we have a show for you coming up on Today Explained. Should music lovers take AI Music seriously? Support for today's show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital. Perhaps you think if you have a good idea and work hard, success is inevitable. The truth is, according to Sequoia Capital, that almost every company, no matter how brilliant the idea, no matter how steadfast the founders, will encounter unthinkable obstacles that can make or break them. Unthinkable, no less. You can listen to Crucible Moments and hear about those unlikely triumphs or over those unthinkable obstacles at Supercell Palo Alto Networks. So much more. Check out cruciblemoments.com or listen wherever you.

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[Noel King]

Ian Kreitzberg is the AI correspondent for Puck. He writes a newsletter called Hidden Layer. And this year, like many of us, Ian encountered Velvet Sundown.

[Ian Kreitzberg]

So Velvet Sundown, they're a band that I guess they kind of. They. They got really popular. I say they're a band. They're an AI Music project.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay?

[Ian Kreitzberg]

Is perhaps more accurate. They got popular a few months ago around the summertime, and they do a kind of iteration of sort of 1970s inspired classic rock that if you're a fan of 1970s classic rock, sounds pretty derivative. They had a bunch of tracks exploded in popularity. Their number one song is called Dust on the Wind.

[Charlie Kirk]

Dust on the Wind, Boots on the Ground, Smoke in the sky, no Peace.

[Noel King]

Found, Rivers Run Red Reminiscent. A little of a little something from who was it Kansas?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, Dreams pass before my eyes A curiosity dust in the know.

[Ian Kreitzberg]

The way Spotify works, right? A lot of music discoveries through Spotify's playlists. And so they got music in the playlists and they were one of these examples, as I was mentioning earlier, right. When. When there's no labels about this, they weren't talking about it. They were kind of gradually found out by people and listeners who slowly put it together. There were a couple of red flags. For instance, they. They released a lot of albums out of nowhere and in very quick succession in the span of a couple weeks, three or four records out, which is a pace that raises eyebrows. And so people started putting it together and eventually they said, you know, hey, we are an AI music project. They got a lot of press, a lot of people were checking them out. And so they were an interesting example of, you know, the idea that you can kind of dupe people into listening to fully AI generated music. And it's not immediately apparent that this was not produced by people.

[Noel King]

We've spoken to people for this show who really love music, and some of them, you're not going to be shocked to hear this. Some of them are really kind of appalled by the idea that people are listening to AI generated music. It has no heart, it has no soul. There's no real connection between the quote unquote artists and the listener, because there is no real artist. It's artificial intelligence. But here's what I wonder. Your average listener is a person who is not a super music nerd. Your average listener is a person who's on a platform and stuff maybe is getting fed to them and they're like, oh, I like this. I don't like this. What has your reporting told you about how the average listener thinks about AI music?

[Ian Kreitzberg]

My answer is not one that will make those music nerds, which I would include myself as one of them, very, very happy. I think the reality is that lot of people just don't care. In the earlier days, this AI music didn't sound good. It didn't sound right. It was difficult to produce full tracks that were convincing when you surpass that point, and on a casual listen, it sounds like a normal track. People don't care. The fascinating thing though, is that when it's labeled as being AI generated, people do tend to care. Oh, right. That was my reaction as well.

[Noel King]

So what? So they avoid it. They don't click on it. What do they do?

[Ian Kreitzberg]

So they've done studies of art so they'll show images, right? Where if you label an image as being AI generated people tend not to like it as much as they like an image that is labeled as being created by a person.

[Noel King]

If we talk about the major players in the AI music space, what I'm coming to learn is we are not talking about individual people making music and then generating it through AI. We're talking about platforms that let you make music using AI. Who are the major players in this space?

[Ian Kreitzberg]

There's really two major platforms here. It's SUNO and Udio, and they both do essentially the same thing, which is exactly what you just said. Platforms that allow you to generate music through text prompts.

[Noel King]

Okay, so I. I would write in, I want a stirring early morning gospel song in the style of Rise and shine and give God the glory. And then it. And then it makes me want. Just like that.

[Denis Bouchard]

Say thank you.

[AI Music Vocalist]

Say hallelujah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hallelujah. Early in the morning we will praise your name.

[Ian Kreitzberg]

You would get a stirring gospel song. Yeah.

[Noel King]

Wow. Okay, so let's talk about the reaction from major record labels. They see this thing on the horizon. I assume they know it is likely training on their artists. And they do what exactly?

[Ian Kreitzberg]

Well, they did a couple things, and we're talking at an interesting time when we can kind of look back and see the whole arc of the reaction. And so the first thing they did was they sued.

[Noel King]

A legal firestorm it's brewing today over this major clash between record companies and AI music services. The Recording Industry association of America filing copyright infringement lawsuits today against two separate companies.

[Ian Kreitzberg]

The RIAA announced that major record labels.

[Denis Bouchard]

Are suing two of the leading AI.

[Ian Kreitzberg]

Music companies, alleging massive copyright infringement, and.

[Denis Bouchard]

Is maybe trying to shut them down.

[Ian Kreitzberg]

Universal and Warner, they filed lawsuits for copyright infringement punishment. These lawsuits were focused on two factors. The first is the inputs, and the second is the outputs. And this is where the kind of idea of fair use comes in. And so in that first, the inputs factor, right, the loose argument was basically something along the lines of, you illegally took my music, my content, my data, and you used it to create this model that you're generating revenue from. You didn't ask me if you could do that. You didn't pay me for it, and so we're suing you. Then there was the output side, which is okay, regardless of the legality of what you did in training the models, your model produces music that is often. And they cited specific cases, quite literally, you know, identical copies of music in our catalogs. That was a more convincing argument. But both of these suits were settled recently, and now you have partnerships. You know, Universal partnered with Udio and Warner partnered with Suno and Universal announced a partnership with Nvidia to, you know, quote, transform music experience, unquote, for their fans with Nvidia's AI. And so you see this shift where they kind of seemingly used their litigation. And these are like major companies, right? UMG and Warner to involve themselves in these companies that were certainly. It's not hard to perceive them as threats if you're a record label. As a means of what seems to me to be, you know, hedging their, their business in the future.

[Noel King]

Okay, so I'm thinking about this from the perspective of the record label. I want to make money off of music and I'm aware that AI is out there and I have to live with it. So I'm starting to get used to it. But I also know, based on what you told me, that people don't like knowing that they're listening to AI music. They feel like it is. There's something uncool about it. So if I'm a record label and I say I want to put out AI music because I see it as a, you know, as the future, how do I sell that to people?

[Ian Kreitzberg]

A they don't know what the hedge is, is essentially looking like from where I sit is there's a non zero chance that in some manner AI becomes the primary way in which people consume music related content or just all content. And if that does happen, these companies want to make sure that they're involved in that, that they have partnerships with these companies or that they have equity in these companies. Right? That their business isn't crippled. If the way people consume content changes dramatically and we never go back, right now, I don't know that that would happen. And the idea of, you know, can UMG sell an AI artist, for example, can they sell straight up AI generated tracks? That would be a hard sell. There's a lot of artists on these labels that are not a fan of what's happening here. These labels don't want to piss off their major artists because that's their current business model. And making sure you have the fandom of Taylor Swift is important to not, you know, push away. I think that kind of idea of how can we allow users or consumers, people and audience to remix something they already like, to live in it in a different way, to somehow customize it to them. I think that's what the record labels are looking at as a potential way to not alienate their current artists and not alienate and destroy their current business. As, you know, a record label of people while opening themselves up to additional opportunity in that kind of new experience, whatever that music experience looks like, while hedging themselves. You know, in case that new experience becomes the only experience or the only major experience.

[Noel King]

That was Ian Kreitzberg of Puck. He reports on AI Coming up, a tale as old as time A dude experiments on himself.

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[Noel King]

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[Danielle Hewitt]

This is an artificial intelligence version of Drake and you are listening to Today. Explain.

[Noel King]

Noel King here with Denis Bouchard. He's the senior tech reporter at Scientific American. I reached Denis a few weeks into an experiment that he's been running in which he is only listening to AI music that he generates himself. Why? Because he's Denis What?

[Denis Bouchard]

The reason I did it was because I wrote an article about AI generated music. And in the article I was trying to decide, can AI music really appeal to us? Can it be important to us? Can it be something that is part of our lives? And I went back and looked for a song that had always been there or had been there for a long time, which is for what It's Worth by Buffalo Springfield I think it's time.

[Charlie Kirk]

We stop Children what's that sound? Everybody look what's Going down.

[Denis Bouchard]

For what It's Worth is a protest song written in 1966 in response to the Sunset Strip curfew riots in Los Angeles.

[Charlie Kirk]

It starts when you're always afraid Step out of line the man come and take you away Away and it's a.

[Denis Bouchard]

Song I learned to play on the guitar for my stepfather when I was a teenager. And I tried to have Suno create a protest song for me to see how I would react to it, if I would have a similar emotional resonance or whatnot. I asked for a song that was folk warm, had male lead vocals with earnest tone, steady mid tempo groove acoust, and had a vintage texture with a subtle tape hiss.

[Charlie Kirk]

Shadows fall heavy on the streets tonight.

[Denis Bouchard]

And it took that and developed that into something that was quite different from what I had actually asked for, but that still had the feeling of that time, still had lyrics that had a bit of a protest song quality.

[Charlie Kirk]

We've been waiting too long Stand together stand tall.

[AI Music Vocalist]

One by one we'll break the wall.

[Denis Bouchard]

If I had heard that song in a coffee shop or a restaurant, I wouldn't have known it was AI it was very well made. But what I realized was there was just no story for me. There was no attachment to that song. I found that there just wasn't that level of human connection to the AI song. And my conclusion was kind of, well, you know, this music doesn't have a story with which we connect. And then after I published that, I thought, well, maybe it's just because I haven't given it a chance. You know, maybe I haven't really explored this question fully. So I thought, I'm going to take a month and just listen to AI music and nothing else. And I will come up with a prompt and I'll plug it in and each prompt makes two songs. And I'll. I'll try to be as creative as possible. And I'll usually plug it in two or three times and vary it, add different kinds of instruments with it or different kind of vocals with it and just plug a bunch of those in. For example, I asked at one point to make a song that was a mix of rap and bluegrass. And I made a song called My Existence. And I listened to that one a few times, kind of intrigued by how it made that one that made me laugh was a song called Organ Trafficking. I'd asked for a contemporary rap song with female vocals, playful, ironic lyrics. And it comes up with this song where organ trafficking is kind of the central metaphor.

[AI Music Vocalist]

In a private auction. How you show up to a chess game when you ain't got no options.

[Denis Bouchard]

I was pretty surprised. I was thinking, okay, I didn't really expect AI to do that. But then, you know, there Are also like the moments in the evening when I kind of wanted to wind down. And I will. I'll look at the prompts and I'll think, okay, give me a song with literary lyrics, playful metaphors, soft female vocals, and acoustic guitar, and then it will give me something like Shadows of the.

[AI Music Vocalist]

Sun but it tore right through and drank me up Up I'm chasing shadows of the sun Running in circles till I come undone I'm a flame that drowns In a way that burns Every wrong turn teaches the heart and I've.

[Denis Bouchard]

Also played with things where, you know, I've asked it for bossa nova and to mix it with rap, and it gave me a song in Portuguese called Entre Oseo Fogo. I think one of the things I've realized is that a lot of the music I listen to that is mainstream. That is, I would consider kind of heavily processed music. Music that's designed to have a large market. It doesn't feel very personal to me anyway. So I. I realized that in that particular context, it didn't feel very different a lot of the time.

[Noel King]

Do you think if someone had handed you a playlist and 10 songs, five or AI, five or not, do you think you'd be able to tell the difference?

[Denis Bouchard]

No, I don't think so.

[Noel King]

Wow. And what is that? What does that tell you?

[Denis Bouchard]

I mean, it tells me that the AI is getting very good. It is certainly telling me that. One thing I noticed during this process was that a lot of the AI music that is popular that people are listening to on Spotify, that has millions of listeners, it often is creating songs that are very soulful, very gritty. You know, it's. It's like Zania Monet or Solomon Ray or Kane Walker's Don't Tread on Me. Kane Walker's not a person. It's an AI avatar. Right. And. Or Breaking rests Living on borrowed time.

[Charlie Kirk]

Laugh at the scars that prove I'm alive We're all just living. On borrowed time.

[Denis Bouchard]

Those songs all feel just really authentic. You know, if I were to sit down in a bar somewhere and someone picked up a guitar and sat, I would expect some gritty local musician to get up and sit on the stool and sing one of those songs and think, yeah, this is really authentic. This person really suffered through these things and felt these things. That's how they come across. And I think that AI tends to work best when it just leans into that authenticity, because it kind of helps overcome the cognitive dissonance that we're thinking. This isn't really A deeply felt song. And it moves away from mainstream human generated music, human made music, which is often very heavily designed to, you know, be a summer hit or to, you know, to go viral in some way. And it's, and it doesn't often doesn't have that level of authenticity, that feel of authenticity. And I think when AI replicates that, we're more aware of it being superficial or artificial, because there's already an element of artificiality there.

[Noel King]

Do you think when your experiment is done, you're going to keep making AI music?

[Denis Bouchard]

I think I probably will.

[Charlie Kirk]

You love the power.

[Denis Bouchard]

I think, you know, what has surprised me with it is now I'll be walking somewhere and I'll think, what if I were to ask it to combine these styles or put a banjo with, you know, a hip hop track and add this kind of vocals? What would I get? I would say, now I'm at the point where I don't worry about the connection to the human. Like I did in the beginning. In the beginning I was really like, who's this person? You know, when you're reading a book and you're halfway through the book and you think, what human mind did this book come out of? And you turn the book over and you look to see who the author was and you Google them and you're like, how in the world did they think of this? Right? And I just had that impulse so often the beginning to want to know, you know, who felt this, who thought this. I just would have cognitive dissonance where I'd be going, this is a machine. This machine did not fall in love. This machine did not suffer these experiences. This machine did not wake up at two in the morning and write this song. You know, just needing to express itself. It was actually really bothering me. I was. It kind of blocked me from being able to enjoy the song. And I thought, well, if somebody created an AI avatar and gave it a personality and it were a fictional character that existed in, you know, the metaverse, and that AI avatar was a song maker and it was singing this song, would that make it easier? And weirdly, it would, would make it a little easier.

[Noel King]

Does doing this experiment and seeing how you're reacting to this music, does this change how you think about AI at all?

[Denis Bouchard]

I think my conclusion from this is that in 10 or 15 or 20 years, there are going to be a lot of teenagers who look at the discussions we're having right now and go, what are these people talking about? Like, this is totally normal. Why would anybody feel so conflicted about this, this. I, I think we're going to adapt to it pretty quickly. That is my, my gut feeling. You know, there's, there are a lot of big questions around the creators and protecting artists and what it means to be an artist. There, there are a lot of questions that are going to come out of this and I really hope that artists are as protected as possible and remunerated properly. But I, I think this is going to fit into our lives a lot more smoothly than I, than I think we're realizing at the moment.

[Danielle Hewitt]

This episode was produced by Danielle Hewitt. It was edited by Miranda Kennedy, fact checked by Andrea Lopez Cruzado and engineered by Patrick Boyd and Bridger.

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[Danielle Hewitt]

Done again. The rest of our team includes Hedy Ma Withe, Miles Bryant, Peter Balloon and Rose and Patrick Boyd, Kelly Wessinger, Ariana Aspuru, David Detachor, Dustin De Soto, Asted Herndon and Sean Ramayzwaram. Our supervising team includes Alvisha Yahtzee, Amina Al Saadi and Jolie Myers. We use music by Breakmaster Cylinder.

[Noel King]

New Day credits there by Suno and you can read Denis Bichard's forthcoming piece about his experiment in Scientific American soon. Personal question while we're here, did you by any chance sign a prenup when you got married? If so, can I talk to you about why? Call me at 844-453-4448 and leave me a message. I want to make you famous. I'm kidding, but I might in fact want to put you on Today Explained. Today Explained is distributed by WNYC and the show is a part of the Vox Media Podcast network. For more award winning podcasts you can visit, visit podcasts.voxmedia.com listen sans ads by signing [e-mail] members. I'm Noel King. It's Today Explained.