All eyes back on Gaza

Summary

Today, Explained - Episode: "All Eyes Back on Gaza" Release Date: May 29, 2025

Hosts: Sean Rameswaram & Josh Keating
Publisher: Vox Media Podcast Network

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1. Introduction: Escalation of the Gaza Crisis

The episode opens with the hosts emphasizing the severe and escalating humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Sean Rameswaram remarks on the unprecedented global attention the situation is receiving, underscoring the urgent need for comprehensive coverage and understanding.

Notable Quote:

“Things in Gaza have been bad for like forever, but they're getting so bad that the coalition of people talking about it has got to be the most far reaching it's ever been.” – Sean Rameswaram [00:00]

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2. Aid Distribution: Traditional Channels vs. New Mechanisms

Tia Goldenberg, an Associated Press correspondent in Jerusalem, and David Beckham delve into the complexities of aid distribution in Gaza. They explore the historical reliance on traditional aid groups like the UN and various charities, contrasted with Israel and the US's efforts to implement a new aid system via the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF).

Key Points:

• Traditional Aid Challenges: Traditional organizations have been operational throughout the conflict, but Israel accuses Hamas of diverting aid to bolster its military capabilities.
• Formation of GHF: Israel and the US-backed GHF aims to streamline aid distribution while preventing diversion to Hamas. However, doubts persist about the foundation's capacity to adhere to humanitarian principles.

Notable Quotes:

“Hamas steals the supplies and prevents the people of Gaza from getting them. It uses these supplies to finance its terror machine which is aimed directly at Israel and our civilians.” – Israeli Official [02:46]

“Aid groups say there's been no significant diversion, but Israel's been looking for a way to get aid away from the UN and aid groups.” – David Beckham [02:58]

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3. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation: Controversies and Challenges

The GHF has faced significant scrutiny. Jake Woods, the organization's executive director, resigned shortly after its inception, citing the impossibility of maintaining humanitarian principles under current operational constraints.

Key Points:

• Resignation of Leadership: Woods resigned due to the inability to uphold principles like humanity, neutrality, impartiality, and independence within the framework imposed by Israel.
• Public Backlash: Videos circulating online show chaos at aid distribution centers, exemplifying the operational challenges and public distrust.
• Political Repercussions: The foundation's struggles highlight the broader tension between military objectives and humanitarian needs.

Notable Quotes:

“It is clear that it's not possible to implement this plan while also strictly adhering to the humanitarian principles of humanity, neutrality, impartiality and independence, which I will not abandon.” – Jake Woods, Executive Director of GHF [04:25]

“The project has been controversial, seen by critics as politicizing and militarizing aid and using food distribution to cattle Palestinians into diminishingly smaller areas with selective distribution used to starve out Israel's adversaries.” – David Beckham [04:30]

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4. Humanitarian Crisis: Impacts and Urgency

Since March 2nd, Israel's blockade severely restricted the influx of essential supplies into Gaza. Although a limited amount of aid has recently been allowed, the situation remains dire, with millions facing food shortages and the onset of famine.

Key Points:

• Aid Blockade Impact: Nearly three months without aid led to warnings of widespread famine and critical shortages of food, medicine, and fuel.
• Human Stories: Personal accounts highlight the desperation, such as individuals risking their lives to obtain basic necessities.
• Current Status: Despite the partial easing of the blockade, the limited aid is insufficient to meet the population's needs.

Notable Quotes:

“I saw people running there. I decided to go to people said it was scary. I didn't care it was dangerous or not. I was going to go. I want to feed my children.” – Anonymous Gazan Resident [06:09]

“This is the beginning of a famine. So the situation is incredibly dire.” – David Beckham [06:19]

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5. Israeli Military Offensive and Hostage Situation

The discussion shifts to Israel's intensified military offensive aimed at dismantling Hamas and securing the release of hostages. Despite these efforts, a significant number of hostages remain, and the offensive's effectiveness remains questionable.

Key Points:

• Hostage Crisis: Approximately 58 hostages are held by Hamas, with only a third believed to be alive. Israel's military actions are partly driven by the objective to free these hostages.
• Military Strategy: Israel aims to seize all of Gaza and establish large safe zones in the south, which involves significant civilian displacement.
• Ceasefire Attempts: Previous ceasefires led to temporary reductions in conflict but ultimately failed to resolve the underlying issues.

Notable Quotes:

“Our forces are capturing more and more terrorists territory, eliminating and clearing out Hamas terrorists. All of the Gaza Strip will be under the security control of Israel.” – Benjamin Netanyahu [10:49]

“This war can end tomorrow. It can end if Hamas lays down its arms and returns our hostages.” – Israeli Official [12:28]

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6. Domestic Reactions in Israel

David Beckham and Sean Rameswaram explore the internal dynamics within Israel, highlighting limited public discourse on the humanitarian crisis due to media focus on military narratives. However, anti-war protests and critical voices are beginning to emerge.

Key Points:

• Media Portrayal: Israeli media predominantly emphasizes Hamas's role in the civilian suffering, limiting broader humanitarian discussions.
• Public Sentiment: While the majority support military actions, a growing minority actively protests against the humanitarian toll.
• Political Pressure: Prime Minister Netanyahu faces increasing scrutiny from opposition figures and public dissent regarding the ongoing conflict and humanitarian strategies.

Notable Quotes:

“A sane country does not civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not expel civilian populations.” – Yair Golan, Former Israeli General [09:12]

“It's not a wave yet of discussion, but there are sparks looking into or beginning to discuss the humanitarian situation in Gaza among Israel.” – David Beckham [09:22]

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7. International Response and Shifting Alliances

The episode examines the broader international reaction to Israel's actions in Gaza, noting a shift in support from traditional allies as European nations and others become more critical.

Key Points:

• European Criticism: Countries like France, Canada, the UK, and Germany, traditionally supportive of Israel, are now openly criticizing its policies, especially regarding settlement expansions and humanitarian aid.
• US-Israel Relations: The relationship between the US and Israel, previously strong under former President Trump, has cooled. The current administration's policies are perceived as less supportive, leading to tensions.
• Global Diplomatic Shifts: The cooling of ties with the US and criticism from Europe signify a potential realignment in international support and diplomatic strategies towards the Gaza conflict.

Notable Quotes:

“We're seeing European allies who were long reluctant to criticize Israel, kind of making their positions a lot more clear.” – Benjamin Netanyahu [23:05]

“If Israel does not cease the renewed military offensive and lift its restrictions on humanitarian aid, we will take further concrete actions in response.” – Josh Keating [23:23]

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8. US-Israel Relations: The Cooling of Ties Between Netanyahu and Trump

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the deteriorating relationship between Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former President Donald Trump, despite Trump's previous staunch support for Israel.

Key Points:

• Past Alliances: Under Trump's administration, key policies like relocating the US Embassy to Jerusalem and the Abraham Accords strengthened US-Israel ties.
• Current Friction: Trump's recent dissatisfaction with Israel's handling of Gaza has led to a rift, with Netanyahu noting Trump's administration's disengagement from direct negotiations and perceived loss of support.
• Policy Divergence: The Trump administration's independent Middle East policies, including direct talks with Hamas and detachment from Israel's immediate concerns, have strained relations.

Notable Quotes:

“He's very upset by the images coming out of Gaza, the sort of pictures of malnourished children he's seeing. And, you know, he's made several statements to the effect that he wants to see this war wrapped up quickly on Gaza.” – Benjamin Netanyahu [18:25]

“I think putting Gaza to the side for a second, what's been really striking to me is the degree to which the Trump administration is just kind of pursuing its priorities in the Middle East without seemingly any concern over appearing to be aligned with Israel.” – Benjamin Netanyahu [20:09]

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9. Global Implications and Future Outlook

The episode concludes by contemplating the broader implications of the current crisis and the potential future trajectory of the conflict. The persistent humanitarian issues, political fractures, and international dynamics suggest a prolonged and complex resolution process.

Key Points:

• Ongoing Suffering: Despite international attention, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza continues to worsen, with limited effective aid and pervasive fear among civilians.
• Political Stalemate: The inflexibility of both Israel and Hamas in negotiations, coupled with internal and international pressures, makes a swift resolution unlikely.
• Future Prospects: The episode underscores the necessity for renewed diplomatic efforts and genuine humanitarian focus to alleviate the suffering and pave the way for sustainable peace.

Notable Quotes:

“It's trying all these new tactics to try to reach its war aims. So far, it's still unclear how different this intensification of its offensive, how it'll manage to do anything different than the last nearly 20 months of fighting did.” – David Beckham [11:14]

“I could see it leading to effective sort of public disengagement… and they might just sort of wash their hands of the negotiating process.” – Benjamin Netanyahu [26:31]

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Conclusion

"All Eyes Back on Gaza" provides a comprehensive analysis of the multifaceted crisis in Gaza, highlighting the intersection of humanitarian needs, military objectives, and international diplomacy. Through detailed discussions and firsthand accounts, the episode underscores the urgent need for effective aid distribution, political will for peace, and global cooperation to address one of the most pressing humanitarian issues of our time.

Transcript

[Sean Ramisforum]

Things in Gaza have been bad for like forever, but they're getting so bad that the coalition of people talking about it has got to be the most far reaching it's ever been. From the podcaster Theo Vaughn that I.

[Josh Keating]

Think we're watching probably like, you know, one of the sickest things that's ever.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Happened to the children's entertainer, Ms. Rachel.

[Tia Goldenberg]

It's sad that people try to make it controversial when you speak out for children that are facing immeasurable suffering.

[Sean Ramisforum]

To the new Pope, Pope Bob.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

To.

[Sean Ramisforum]

A former Israeli Prime Minister.

[Israeli Official]

A couple of million people living in Gaza and they say they should all starve and be demolished. This is a call for war crime.

[Sean Ramisforum]

By to even President Trump.

[Donald Trump]

They're going to help the people of Gaza get some food.

[Sean Ramisforum]

We're going to ask if it'll make a difference on TODAY Explained.

[Josh Keating]

Support for this podcast and the following message is brought to you by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. With E Trade you can dive into the market with easy to use tools, zero dollar commissions and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love. Get access to industry leading research and insights from Morgan Stanley to help guide your decisions. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Get started [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley.

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[Benjamin Netanyahu]

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[Sean Ramisforum]

Tia Goldenberg is a correspondent for the Associated Press in Jerusalem. We asked her what's going on with aid in Gaza.

[David Beckham]

Israel and the US are trying to get a new aid system off the ground. Throughout the war you've had traditional aid groups like the UN and other charities providing aid to Gazans where they are in the Gaza Strip. And Israel for the entirety of the war has accused Hamas of siphoning off that aid and using it to bolster its rule in Gaza.

[Israeli Official]

Hamas steals the supplies and prevents the people of Gaza from getting them. It uses these supplies to finance its terror machine which is aimed directly at Israel and our civilians. And this we cannot accept.

[David Beckham]

Aid groups say there's been no significant diversion, but Israel's been looking for a way to get aid away from the UN and aid groups. It also obviously has lots of years long skepticism and tensions between Israel and the un. So what we've seen over the past couple of days is this new aid mechanism get off the ground. The linchpin of this aid mechanism is a group called the Gaza Humanitarian. The so called Gaza Humanitarian foundation is backed by the US and Israel and.

[Donald Trump]

Uses American contractors for security.

[Josh Keating]

The shadowy organization faces accusations of helping.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Israel fulfill its military objectives of excluding Palestinians and of failing to adhere to humanitarian principles. The American company running this new scheme says that 8,000 boxes of food have been handed out so far. But remember, the population of Gaza is.

[David Beckham]

Is 2.2 million now. What we've also seen over the past couple of days is the chaos that surrounds this attempt to kind of wrest aid from the traditional aid groups delivering it.

[Tia Goldenberg]

There's video circulating online now and it shows the moment that thousands of Palestinians flooded this distribution center in Rafah.

[David Beckham]

There was no order.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

The people rushed to take something. We didn't get anything. There was shooting and we fled.

[David Beckham]

Now this came hours after the organization's executive director said that he was resigning even before the foundation began working.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Jake woods resignation comes just two months after he was asked to lead the organization.

[David Beckham]

In a statement issued by the foundation, Wood made his reasoning clear. It is clear that it's not possible to implement this plan while also strictly adhering to the humanitarian principles of humanity, neutrality, impartiality and independence, which I will not abandon. The effort itself is really controversial because the UN and aid groups say they're not going to work with the ghf. They think that, you know, if they do, it'll violate their core humanitarian principles because Palestinians have to essentially be displaced. They have to move to reach these aid centers and they don't want to be part of that. They see that aid is being politicized or even weaponized. The project has been controversial, seen by critics as politicizing and militarizing aid and using food distribution to cattle Palestinians into diminishingly smaller areas with selective distribution used to starve out Israel's adversaries.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

We need all types of aid, not aid that is cherry picked by the Israeli side that we are allowed to get in.

[David Beckham]

And what we've seen over the past few months since March 2nd is Israel blocking aid from entering Gaza entirely. That ended about a week ago when Israel decided it would let in a limited amount of Aid. And so during these few weeks, or nearly three months, actually, no aid was being led into Gaza. No food, no medicine, no fuel. And you had a situation where food experts were warning that nearly 1 million Palestinians barely had enough access to food. And nearly half a million Palestinians were at the risk of possible starvation.

[Josh Keating]

I saw people running there. I decided to go to people said it was scary. I didn't care it was dangerous or not. I was going to go. I want to feed my children.

[David Beckham]

Just trying to get rice is a struggle for this 18 year old. Everyone's pushing. She says there's no flour. This is the beginning of a famine. So the situation is incredibly dire. And it remains so even though Israel has begun letting a limited amount of aid into Gaza.

[Sean Ramisforum]

You're calling it a limited amount of aid. So it's by design, not enough aid.

[David Beckham]

I mean, I can't tell you what the designs of the Israeli government are. Israel is accused of aid groups and world courts of using starvation as a weapon of war. But Israel says that it has legitimate concerns that this aid is being used to fuel Hamas's rule in Gaza. At the end of the day, Palestinians on the ground are the ones that are suffering and suffering dramatically.

[Sean Ramisforum]

How are these policies around aid going over with Israelis in Israel?

[David Beckham]

October 7, 2023. Hamas's attacks were a huge, huge shock for Israelis and they're still traumatized. This also falls in the context of an ongoing war where there are still 58 hostages, about a third of them believed to be alive, being held in Gaza. And so Israelis believe that soldiers are not just fight in Gaza, they're fighting to free these hostages. So throughout the war, it's important to note that Israeli media has also limited the type of coverage that it has shown to Israelis. Some of the harshest images that you see on in international media just don't find a place in Israeli media. They tend to promote the Israeli narrative that Hamas is solely to blame for what's happening to civilians in Gaza. And so there hasn't been too much of a disservice discussion about the humanitarian crisis in the public discourse. That said, there has been somewhat of a shift in recent days or weeks. We're seeing there's a protest movement, an anti war protest movement that has a very small but growing contingent of protesters who hold up pictures of Palestinian children who have been killed throughout the war.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

I want to say to the people of Gaza, we are with you. We know that you are innocent and we are fighting to end this destruction of your city and of your lives.

[Tia Goldenberg]

We are refusing genocide. Also Jewish people in Israel, we are standing beside Palestinians. They are going through the worst period in their history, including the Nakba in 48. And we absolutely cannot stay silent.

[David Beckham]

A leading opposition politician the other day made some of the harshest comments against Israel's conduct and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. You have an Israeli former general Yair.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Golan, saying a sane country does not civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not expel civilian populations.

[David Beckham]

Which sparked an uproar, and there was lots of condemnations across the political spectrum. But it also sparked a discussion about Israel's conduct and what it is doing and the toll of the war on civilians. So, I mean, it's not a wave yet of discussion, but there is kind of sparks looking into or beginning to discuss the humanitarian situation in Gaza among Israel.

[Sean Ramisforum]

In the meantime, is any of this getting Israel closer to getting back these 58 hostages, 1/3 of whom are believed to still be alive?

[David Beckham]

Israel and Hamas were engaged in a ceasefire earlier this year, which Israel ended up shattering about eight weeks in. And, you know, the ceasefire led to hostages being freed. It led to a lull in fighting. And then after Israel resumed fighting, it decided it was going to ramp up the pressure on Hamas. Part of that tactic was to block the aid going into Gaza. And it also said it would ratchet up its offensive on the territory with the aim of defeating Hamas and freeing the hostages. That's been its war aims throughout. So in the past couple of weeks, since this new offensive began, there's been an intensification of strikes. Israel says that as part of this plan, it wants to seize all of Gaza.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Our forces are capturing more and more terrorists territory, eliminating and clearing out Hamas terrorists. All of the Gaza Strip will be under the security control of Israel.

[David Beckham]

It wants to hold on to territory. It wants to move the population of Gaza to the south.

[Israeli Official]

Ultimately, we intend to have large safe zones in the south of Gaza, and the Palestinian population will move there for their own safety while we conduct combat in other zones.

[David Beckham]

And that aid plan we discussed earlier is part of this, of moving the population south. So, I mean, it's trying all these new tactics to try to reach its war aims. So far, it's still unclear how different this intensification of its offensive, how it'll manage to do anything different than the last nearly 20 months of fighting did. This war has been going on for so long, and Israel still has not reached its aim of dismantling Hamas and freeing the hostages. And in fact, an overwhelming amount of hostages who have been freed have been freed through ceasefire deals and not through military pressure that Israel is now ramping up.

[Sean Ramisforum]

So why ramp up military pressure instead of negotiating? Is that desperation?

[David Beckham]

Israel and Hamas stand very far apart on how they see the end of this war playing out. Hamas says it's prepared to free all the hostages immediately for a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and an end to the war. Israel obviously wants its hostages freed, but Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he's not prepared to end the war unless Hamas is dismantled.

[Israeli Official]

This war can end tomorrow. It can end if Hamas lays down its arms and returns our hostages.

[David Beckham]

And so this has been a key sticking point throughout the war and neither side is relenting. You know, no matter how much military pressure Israel puts on Hamas, you know, it's killed its leaders, it's devastated the territory. It's just been an intense, intense conflict. And yet that hasn't dislodged Hamas from its position. Netanyahu, meanwhile, is under a lot of political pressure from his governing coalition to continue the war. It's hard to see how the sides reconcile and come to an agreement that ends this war.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Tia Goldenberg, Associated Press apnews.com, trump ices out Netanyahu when we're back on today Explained.

[Tia Goldenberg]

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[Sean Ramisforum]

Today explained is back. I'm Sean Ramis forum here with Josh Keating who covers national security and foreign policy here at Vox. Josh Gaza was one of the things that Donald Trump wanted to solve as soon as he entered office. How is he talking about Gaza now?

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Well, you know, in some ways to give him credit, he didn't solve it, but there was a ceasefire in place when he took office.

[Donald Trump]

This deal was developed and negotiated under my administration, but its terms will be.

[Israeli Official]

Implemented for the most part by the next administration.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

So incoming Trump's team's cooperation with the outgoing Biden Steam helped secure a ceasefire In January, which lasts until March, the.

[David Beckham]

War in Gaza reignited. Israel's military says it is targeting Hamas with new airstrikes in the Gaza Strip. Hamas says it means the ceasefire is over.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Various proposals by US Envoy Steve Whitcoff had been rejected by Hamas.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

You know, now reportedly, he's very upset by the images coming out of Gaza, the sort of pictures of malnourished children he's seeing. And, you know, he's made several statements to the effect that he wants to see this war wrapped up quickly on Gaza.

[Donald Trump]

We want to see if we can stop that. And Israel, we've been talking to them, and we want to see if we can stop that whole situation as quickly as possible.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

We're almost oddly back kind of where we were under the Biden administration, where we have all these stories coming out every few days where either Trump or senior officials speaking on background are quoted saying how frustrated they are with the Netanyahu government, how they're losing patience.

[Donald Trump]

We got to get that taken care of. A lot of people are starving. A lot of people. There's a lot of bad things going on.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

But the war doesn't seem to be ending. It's continuing, and it's not really clear just how much pressure the Trump administration is willing to bring to bear to get a ceasefire in place.

[Sean Ramisforum]

I guess it wasn't surprising to most people that he couldn't figure this out instantly, considering I don't know the history here. But maybe more surprising is that his relationship with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has cooled down so much. What exactly happened there?

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Yeah, I mean, you could basically define the Trump administration's Mideast policy in his first term as give Netanyahu what he wants.

[Donald Trump]

I speak to you today as a lifelong supporter and true friend of Israel.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Some of the dramatic moves included moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the disputed Golan Heights, and, you know, what may have been the kind of crowning achievement of the Trump administration's first term foreign policy? The Abraham Accords, which are the series of deals under which several Arab countries established formal diplomatic relations with Israel for the first time.

[Donald Trump]

I took a risk in doing them, and they've been an absolute bonanza for the countries that have joined.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

So I think the Israelis, when Trump came in, had every reason to assume that, you know, they had their guy in the White House again, you know, after, you know, some of the frustrations they had with the Biden administration. But putting Gaza to the side for a second, what's been really striking to me is the degree to which the Trump administration is just kind of pursuing its priorities in the Middle east without seemingly any concern over appearing to be aligned with Israel. It's hard to imagine any of the last few administrations doing things like having direct negotiations with Hamas to secure the release of an Israeli American hostage.

[Josh Keating]

Now, we understand that this was the result of direct four way talks which led to the release, again with countries like the U.S. qatar, Egypt and Hamas.

[David Beckham]

We know that the President, during his.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Trip throughout the Middle east will not.

[David Beckham]

Meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Some say it is viewed as somewhat, as a slight.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

They've also restarted nuclear talks with Iran, perhaps willing to countenance a deal that would leave Iran with some kind of nuclear enrichment, which, you know, is a deal basically comparable to the one negotiated by Barack Obama that Trump tore up a decade ago and which, you know, the Israelis famously hated that deal, wanted it torn up. And then a third example is, yes, the US Launched this bombing campaign against the Houthis, the rebels in Yemen who've been attacking shipping in the Red Sea. But when they agreed to stop that bombing a week ago, the deal that they reached with the Houthis basically stipulated that this group wouldn't attack American ships anymore. It said nothing about continuing attacks on Israel. And actually the Houthis have continued lobbing missiles at Israel. And so, you know, the implicit message of that is that they basically left Israel on its own to deal with the Houthis. So this is stuff that's just kind of remarkable to see from an administration, from a president who's basically touted himself as the most pro Israel US President in history.

[Sean Ramisforum]

What about the rest of the world? How are they responding to the situation in Gaza right now?

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

Well, I mean, we're seeing European allies who were long reluctant to criticize Israel, kind of making their positions a lot more clear. I mean, there was a joint statement from the leaders of France, Canada and the UK we will not stand by.

[Josh Keating]

While the Netanyahu government pursues these egregious actions. If Israel does not cease the renewed military offensive and lift its restrictions on humanitarian aid, we will take further concrete actions in response. We oppose any attempt to expand settlements.

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

In the west bank, even Germany. The government that has perhaps been, other than the US been the staunchest supporter of Israel within the west, within NATO, said that it sort of no longer finds Israel's actions acceptable.

[Josh Keating]

What the Israeli army is now doing in the Gaza Strip, I no longer understand, frankly, what its objective is to cause such suffering to the civilian population as has increasingly been the case in recent days, can no longer be justified as a fine fight against Hamas terrorism.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Is it making any difference?

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

This may also have been one factor among many that led to the resumption of humanitarian aid. But it's a lot easier for him to brush off the pressure from these European governments, who are sort of viewed as sort of implicitly anti Israel anyway, than it would be for him to brush it off. Coming from Trump, who's supposedly Netanyahu's guy, he's, you know, this is supposed to be the most pro Israel government ever. So if they're losing Trump's backing, I think that's in a lot of ways more meaningful.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Okay, so you're saying that if Trump did the thing that Biden did actually do briefly and suspended military aid to Israel in some fashion, it could actually turn the tide here. Trump wants to figure out a deal here. He says at least he's turned his back on Netanyahu a little, at least. Why not go the extra step?

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

I think cutting off support for Israel would be, you know, a much more dramatic step that I have a hard time seeing this president take. I mean, you know, it's important to remember, too, that there's almost the split screen going on with how Trump approaches this issue when it comes to domestic policy. I think he's sort of like, followed through on this most pro Israel president ever title. You know, the President has made, has effectively tried to criminalize criticism of Israel in many respects. He's deported US Residents who've been involved in anti Israel protests. He's punished universities. You know, it's funny, in some ways, Israel's almost been a domestic issue for this administration rather than a foreign policy one. But I think maintaining that split screen is going to be harder if you get to, you know, actually taking steps to sort of punish or restrict aid to Israel on the. On the international stage.

[Sean Ramisforum]

That puts the president in a very tricky situation here. If he is genuinely concerned about these images of starving children, where does that path lead him?

[Benjamin Netanyahu]

I could see it leading to effective sort of public disengagement. I mean, we're seeing a sort of similar dynamic play out in the Russia, Ukraine situation, where they're just kind of getting frustrated, progress is not being made, and they might just sort of wash their hands of the negotiating process, you know, and continue sending weapons to Israel and say it's not really our problem anymore.

[Sean Ramisforum]

Josh.keatingvox.com Avishai Artsy and Denise Guerra produced the program today. Jolie Myers edited. Laura Bullard is our senior researcher on fax and Andrea Christensdotter was our sole audio engineer for this episode of Today. Explained it.