Almost Heaven

Summary

Today, Explained – Episode: "Almost Heaven"

Release Date: December 27, 2024
Host: Sean Ramford and Noel King
Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network

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Introduction: The Global Phenomenon of "Take Me Home, Country Roads"

In this episode of Today, Explained, hosts Sean Ramford and Noel King delve into the enduring global popularity of John Denver's iconic song, "Take Me Home, Country Roads." The discussion explores how a regionally specific anthem transcended its American roots to become a beloved tune worldwide, particularly in Asia and among West Virginians.

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Unraveling the Mystery: How Did a West Virginia Anthem Go Global?

Sean Ramford begins by recounting his surprise at witnessing a Scottish band performing "Country Roads," highlighting the song's unexpected international reach. This curiosity leads to an investigation into how such a region-specific song became a global favorite.

Professor Sarah Morris, an assistant professor of English at West Virginia University, provides scholarly insight into the song's widespread appeal. She emphasizes the strategic distribution by John Denver's label, RCA, which propelled the song to diverse international markets early in its release.

"When RCA realized how popular the song was gonna be and it was actually shared outside of the United States first, they really started sharing it with different artists and that caused its global popularity to move pretty quickly."
— Emma Chamberlain (02:11)

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The RCA Strategy: A Game of Musical Telephone

Sarah Morris explains that RCA employed a "game of telephone" approach by distributing "Country Roads" to various artists across different genres and regions. This tactic resulted in multiple versions of the song, each resonating with diverse audiences:

• Olivia Newton-John's Country Pop Version: Disseminated throughout Europe.
• West Virginia Mountain Momo: Gained traction in West Virginia.
• Ray Charles' R&B Cover: Targeted African American markets.

This multifaceted distribution strategy ensured that "Country Roads" appealed to a broad spectrum of listeners, fostering its global ubiquity.

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Musical Anatomy: Why "Country Roads" Resonates

Charlie Harding, co-host of Switched On Pop and a professor of music at NYU, breaks down the song's structural genius. He attributes its success to adherence to Irving Berlin's fundamental songwriting principles:

1. Singable Range: The song's melody is accessible, allowing virtually anyone to sing along.
2. Memorable Title: The phrase "Country Roads" is prominently featured, making it unforgettable.
3. Simple Composition: Its straightforward melody and structure facilitate widespread appeal.

Harding further highlights the song's melody, described as "Mi re do," a fundamental sequence underpinning much of Western music, which ingrains it deeply in listeners' memories.

"Country Roads contains the most fundamental, most memorable melody, Mi re do. That is the whole structure of the chorus melody."
— Charlie Harding (04:14)

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Eastward Bound: "Country Roads" in Asia

Jason Jung, a writer based in Brooklyn, shares fascinating insights from his Atlantic article on the song's impact in Asia. He references a 2009 study by sociologists Grant Blank and Heidi Ruppke, which found "Country Roads" to be the favorite American song among Chinese college students. The song served as a cultural symbol, representing an idealized vision of America during a time of shifting US-China relations.

The historical context underscores the song's role in soft diplomacy. Following Deng Xiaoping's visit to the US in 1979, efforts to bridge cultural gaps included inviting American artists like John Denver to tour China, further cementing the song's place in Asian pop culture.

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Armed Forces Radio: The Untold Catalyst

Harding and Jung discuss the role of the US military presence in Asia during the 20th century as a pivotal factor in disseminating American pop culture. Through Armed Forces Radio, "Country Roads" was introduced to millions in Japan, Korea, the Philippines, and Vietnam. The song's innocent and universally appealing nature made it an ideal choice for broadcast, bypassing stricter content regulations of the time.

"Country Roads was innocuous, but it was also a crowd pleaser. No matter the crowd, 100%."
— Charlie Harding (12:32)

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Cultural Integration: More Than Just a Song

The episode explores how "Country Roads" became intertwined with West Virginian identity despite being penned by outsiders. Sarah Morris notes that the proximity of the songwriters to West Virginia and John Denver's active engagement with the state helped bridge the gap between the song's origins and its adopted home.

However, some West Virginians critique the song for its geographical inaccuracies, such as references to the Shenandoah River and the Blue Ridge Mountains, which only marginally pertain to the state. Nonetheless, the song remains a cultural staple, used in various communal settings like weddings, funerals, protests, and even political rallies.

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The Political Dimension: A Neutral Anthem in a Divided Landscape

While "Country Roads" primarily evokes emotional resonance, it inevitably intersects with political narratives. Emma Chamberlain discusses instances where political figures, including President Trump, have used the song to foster a sense of unity and belonging among supporters. This usage underscores the song's versatile role in both personal and political spheres.

"Our emotions are tied up in politics. So when a candidate plays Country Roads at a rally, we think he's on our side."
— Emma Chamberlain (23:37)

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Transcending Boundaries: The Song's Timeless Appeal

The hosts reflect on the song's ability to transcend stereotypes and biases. "Country Roads" serves as a unifying force, appealing to a wide range of listeners regardless of their background or political leanings. Its themes of longing for home and belonging strike a universal chord, allowing the song to remain relevant across generations and cultures.

Emma Chamberlain introduces the concept of "horiath," a Welsh term denoting a deep longing for a place that may never have existed. This existential yearning is at the heart of "Country Roads," enabling it to resonate with listeners worldwide, even those who have never visited West Virginia.

"Country Roads creates an imaginary landscape that's flexible and can be applied to any home. It taps into a deep-seated, universal feeling of wanting to belong."
— Emma Chamberlain (26:36)

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Conclusion: The Enduring Legacy of "Country Roads"

As the episode wraps up, Sean Ramford summarizes the multifaceted impact of "Country Roads." From its strategic international distribution to its deep emotional resonance, the song exemplifies how music can transcend geographical and cultural boundaries. It remains a beloved anthem, not just for West Virginians, but for millions around the globe who find solace and connection in its melody and lyrics.

Key Takeaways:

• Global Reach: "Country Roads" achieved international fame through strategic distribution and cultural integration.
• Musical Simplicity: Its accessible melody and structure make it universally singable.
• Cultural Symbolism: The song serves as a beacon of American culture, particularly in Asia.
• Emotional Resonance: Themes of home and belonging create a timeless appeal.
• Political Utilization: The song's versatility allows it to be used in various political and social contexts.

Produced by Victoria Chamberlain. Edited by Matthew Collette. Fact-Checked by Laura Bullard. Mixed by Andrea Christensdotter and Patrick Boyd.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "When RCA realized how popular the song was gonna be and it was actually shared outside of the United States first, they really started sharing it with different artists and that caused its global popularity to move pretty quickly."
  — Emma Chamberlain (02:11)

• "Country Roads contains the most fundamental, most memorable melody, Mi re do. That is the whole structure of the chorus melody."
  — Charlie Harding (04:14)

• "Our emotions are tied up in politics. So when a candidate plays Country Roads at a rally, we think he's on our side."
  — Emma Chamberlain (23:37)

• "Country Roads creates an imaginary landscape that's flexible and can be applied to any home. It taps into a deep-seated, universal feeling of wanting to belong."
  — Emma Chamberlain (26:36)

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Thank you for tuning into Today, Explained. Stay informed and connected with the stories that shape our world.

Transcript

[Sean Ramford]

Today explained. Sean Ramford. I went to see some live music in Edinburgh, Scotland late last year and when I entered the venue, I was somehow surprised to see a seven piece band full of dudes in kilts, very literally Scottish, you guys. But then I was even more surprised by what they were playing. Everyone knows this super regionally specific slice of Americana John Denver dropped in 1971. Then I was talking to my cousin in Sri Lanka and he said, yeah.

[Charlie Harding]

Man, everyone knows Country Roads.

[Sean Ramford]

And I was like, do they? But then the more I looked into it, the more I realized cousin was right. The Germans know these roads, the Japanese. By the time I heard the French Canadian Country Roads, I had to know how this happened. We're bringing you an encore presentation of our investigation of of our country roads on today Explained.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Hey, it's Emma Chamberlain. I designed these new glasses for Warby Parker and I basically can't take them off. Like I'm showering in them and sleeping in them. They're just that good. Go see them [e-mail] and you know what? Have a good day too. Okay? All right, bye.

[Sean Ramford]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock.

[Charlie Harding]

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[Sean Ramford]

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[Charlie Harding]

Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply.

[Sean Ramford]

Today. Explained. When you want to learn more about Take Me Home Country Roads, it helps to speak to Professor Sarah Morris.

[Emma Chamberlain]

I'm an assistant professor of English and I'm the coordinator for undergraduate writing at West Virginia University.

[Sean Ramford]

Sarah's so West Virginia. She's writing a whole book about this song.

[Emma Chamberlain]

When RCA realized how popular the song was gonna be and it was actually shared outside of the United States first they really started sharing it with different artists and that caused its global popularity to move pretty quickly. So in the first year or two of the original release, Loretta Lynn covered it.

[Charlie Harding]

Dark and dusty painted on the sky.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Lynn Anderson covered it. Tennessee Ernie Ford covered it. The Statler Brothers, Mr. Taste of Moonshine, Teardrops in My Eyes. It was distributed to all these different artists. But one of the things that I think is interesting is that there were three versions that stand out. So there's the original. There's Olivia Newton John's country pop version, which was distributed throughout Europe, West Virginia Mountain Momo and then Ray Charles R and B cover that went to African American markets. Now, put your hands together, and from those versions you can trace different variations.

[Sean Ramford]

Sarah says John Denver's label, RCA, basically started a game of telephone back in 1971. And we're still playing that game because this song still slaps. But don't take my word for it. Take Charlie Harding's co host of Switched.

[Charlie Harding]

On Pop and professor of music at nyu.

[Sean Ramford]

Charlie gave us a host of reasons why Country Roads is such a ubiquitous banger.

[Charlie Harding]

First, it follows the essential songwriting rules established by Irving Berlin. The great 20th century songwriter wrote 1500 songs in his life, including songs like Puttin on the Ritz, God Bless America, White Christmas. He had nine rules. We're not going to go through all of them. But it hits on some of the most important ones. For example, the song has to have an average range that anybody can sing. Anybody can sing Country Roads, okay? The high note, sometimes not. Second, the title has to be planted in the song so you can't forget it. Berlin says that songs should have heart longing, and this song is fundamentally about heart longing. And finally, it just has to be a simple song. And Country Roads couldn't be more simple. Which leads me to the second point, which is that Country Roads contains the most fundamental, most memorable melody, Mi re do. That is the whole structure of the chorus melody, Mi re do Three Blind Mice. It is ingrained in our memory. In fact, the music theorist Heinrich Schenker called this the ursatz melody, the fundamental melody which is underlying all Western music. And so when we sing Country Roads, Me take me home re to the place do Road home place Mi re do. Each of those words falling right on a downbeat on the most fundamental melody. It follows the simplest, easiest to sing melody that anybody can follow along with. It has this one high note who all the celebratory singers can go together. I belong. You don't even have to hit the high note. And when you sing I belong, you are claiming your space in this song. This song is meant to be sung together in community all around the world.

[Sean Ramford]

And it is. People are singing the song in Scotland, in Nashville, and all over Asia.

[Jason Jung]

I think it's fair to say on any given Friday or Saturday or Sunday night, whether you're in Seoul, Manila, Tokyo, or Hanoi, there will be a drunk man or woman belting out mountain mama at any given moment. If you travel across Asia, this song is pretty much ubiquitous, and you'll find it wherever you go.

[Sean Ramford]

Jason Jungkook is a writer based In Brooklyn a few years ago, he wrote about this song for the Atlantic on the occasion of its 50th birthday, specifically how the song got so big in Asia.

[Jason Jung]

In 2009, there were two sociologists named Grant Blank and Heidi Ruppke who published a paper on the musical preferences of Chinese college students. So they went to various classrooms throughout western China. And this would have been the early 21st century. So if you think about American songs that were popular at the time, you're probably thinking, I don't know, Kelly Clarkson had just won American Idol. Maybe you bought her debut album. Or if you're hit, maybe you like the Strokes or Britney Spears. But after asking these Chinese students what their favorite American song was, the answer was overwhelmingly Country Roads by John Denver. And what they found was that a lot of students had learned the song while they were learning English in high school or in middle school. And Grant Blank and Heidi Ruppke concluded that this song was also a powerful cultural symbol for these students and were associated with their ideation of America.

[Sean Ramford]

But how did it get to be so popular in China? Seems like it was good old detente.

[Jason Jung]

So for historical context, US China relations under Mao Zedong during the 50s through the 70s were essentially unilaterally hostile. The US was fighting the Cold War against the evil commies, I'll say.

[Emma Chamberlain]

So that all American people can hear that the only enemy of peace in the world is communism.

[Jason Jung]

And much of Mao's domestic policy was predicated on the idea that the US was this bad imperialist enemy. So it wasn't until after Mao's death in 1976, when his successor, Deng Xiaoping, ushered in a new era of political detente. And this shift culminated in 1979, when he became the first Chinese head of state to visit the US Under President Jimmy Carter.

[Charlie Harding]

This house belongs to all Americans, people.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Who are firmly dedicated to a world.

[Charlie Harding]

Of friendship and peace and. Vice Premier Dong, on behalf of all Americans, I welcome you here to our house.

[Jason Jung]

If you look at the reception of Dang's trip to Washington, there were protesters from the right who were upset that Jimmy Carter was holding hands with with communists from the east.

[Charlie Harding]

About 400 noisy demonstrators were on hand at Dung's hotel.

[Jason Jung]

And there were also accounts of protesters from the left who thought Deng's now a capitalist pawn and we're betraying Mao's socialist vision. But it was within this context that Deng Xiaoping came to America to visit Jimmy Carter. And as is customary when a head of state comes to visit, the entire spread, the full spread was laid out for Deng and the Chinese delegation. This included a night of festivities at the Kennedy center where Shirley MacLaine performed. The Joffrey Ballet were there, as were the Harlem Globetrotters, obviously. And John Denver.

[Charlie Harding]

It is with great joy that we.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Welcome you to our country. And it is with true love that we extend our very best wishes to.

[Jason Jung]

You and your people on your new.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Long march toward modernization in this century.

[Jason Jung]

If there's anything in the world that transcends politics or borders is probably trick shots and folksy singer songwriters. So this trip left an impression on Deng because a few years later he invited John Denver to be one of the first touring artists from America to visit China.

[Sean Ramford]

But it wasn't just detente boosting country roads in Asia. It was also the US military.

[Jason Jung]

If you think about Asia's relationship with america throughout the 20th century, probably the most visible legacy of American influence were army bases. And wherever there were army bases, there was radio.

[Charlie Harding]

It's 2200 hours exchange of gunfire in Korea. Afbn news compiled from commercial and military news agencies. Good evening, I'm Marine sergeant Troy Pennington.

[Jason Jung]

So for millions of listeners in Japan, Korea or the Philippines or Vietnam, countries where American military presence were very much real, their first introduction to American pop culture would have been through Armed Forces Radio.

[Charlie Harding]

This is the American Forces Vietnam network.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Where the hits just keep on coming.

[Jason Jung]

If you think about the type of music that was popular during the 70s and 80s, you're probably thinking the sensuality of Marvin Gaye or the vibrant costumes of Elton John or the anti war politics of ccr. But obviously the suits at Armed Forces Radio weren't gonna allow obscenity or vulgarity of any form to broadcast across the airwaves. So if you've ever watched the movie Good Modern day Vietnam, it's like how Robin Williams character was constantly getting in trouble for getting funky with it.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Good morning Vietnam. What the heck is that supposed to mean? And who gave anyone permission to program modern music?

[Jason Jung]

So the music that did ultimately clear the airwaves were easy listening. Soft rock or Dolly Parton or John Denver.

[Sean Ramford]

Country Roads was innocuous, but it was also a crowd pleaser. No matter the crowd 100%.

[Jason Jung]

I mean, I don't know anyone in my age cohort who loves John Denver. And I think it's hard to evaluate really omnipresent fixtures in pop culture objectively, if that's even possible. But this song is really beautiful having listened to it for the first time in a while. This song is about wanting to go back home, which is something that I think anyone can relate to, and it's about mountains and trees and pretty streams.

[Sean Ramford]

You're reminding me of a Reddit thread I stumbled upon doing research for this episode in our Ask An American Someone says, do you find it odd that country roads is enjoyed around the world? Got me nostalgic for a place I've never been to.

[Jason Jung]

Yeah.

[Sean Ramford]

And then legacyuser 1010 says in response, no, every country has roads. Most people use them to go home.

[Jason Jung]

They're not wrong. That's a crazy thing about this song. I think that's a perfect description. It makes me nostalgic for a place I've never been. I've never been in West Virginia. I don't plan on visiting West Virginia anytime soon, but for some reason I can see it.

[Sean Ramford]

We're gonna visit West Virginia when we're back on today. Expl Support for TODAY Explained comes from Ramp. Ramp is the corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. Ramp says they give finance teams unprecedented control and insight into company spend. With Ramp, you're able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions and automate expense reporting so you can stop wasting time at the end of every month. And now you can get $250 when you join ramp, you can go to ramp.com explained ramp.com explained R A M P.com explained cards issued by Sutton bank member FDIC terms and conditions apply. Why do so many of us get happiness wrong and how can we start to get it right?

[Emma Chamberlain]

I mean, I think we assume that happiness is about positive emotion on all the time, right? Often very high arousal positive emotion. But that's not really what we're talking about.

[Sean Ramford]

Hi, I'm Preet Bharara, and this week Dr. Laurie Santos joins me on my podcast, Stay Tuned with Preet to discuss the science behind happiness. We explore job crafting, the parenting paradox, the arrival fallacy, and why acts of kindness might be the simplest path to fulfillment. The episode is out now. Search and follow Stay Tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcast.

[Emma Chamberlain]

West Virginia Mountain Mama Take Me Home Country Road.

[Sean Ramford]

Today Explain is back with some fun facts. Take Me Home Country Roads was made famous by a guy named John Denver who was born and raised as Henry John Dutchendorf Jr. In Roswell, New Mexico. The song was originally intended for for Johnny Cash. Denver's co writers bill Danoff and Taffy Nivert also wrote Afternoon Delight, Afternoon Delight.

[Charlie Harding]

Now if you don't think this song.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Is the greatest song ever, I will Fight you.

[Sean Ramford]

And guess what? Bill and Taffy weren't from West Virginia either. Taffy was from D.C. where she and Bill lived and wrote the song. Bill was from Massachusetts and apparently considered making the lyrics something like.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Massachusetts, Boston Celtics.

[Sean Ramford]

Okay, the Celtics thing is a joke, but he was serious about Massachusetts. I asked West Virginia University English professor Sarah Morris if it bothers West Virginians that their calling card anthem was written by three outsiders. She said they weren't totally outsiders.

[Emma Chamberlain]

So it's true that Bill Danoff had never been to West Virginia. But the eastern panhandle of West Virginia is only about 60 miles from D.C. so it's not a world away. And West Virginia was so prominent in the cultural and political landscape of the 60s. So Kennedy campaigned really heavily in the state. The Appalachian Regional Commission was established in the 60s. All these road building and charity efforts put West Virginia in the spotlight. If you were living in D.C. there's no way you wouldn't have known about the state. But John Denver, he was in a band called the Mitchell Trio from 1965 until about 1968, and they toured college campuses all over the Eastern Seaboard, including West Virginia.

[Charlie Harding]

John Denver, the Mountain State's adopted favorite son, paid a special visit to the campus as part of the gala opening ceremonies for the new mountaineer field on September 6th.

[Emma Chamberlain]

So he performed at West Virginia Wesleyan College. He performed at Marshall University in 1970. In the fall, he performed solo at Concord College's homecoming celebration. And then Taffy Nyvert, her voice is really interesting to me because in some ways, we don't hear from her very much, but she has probably the deepest connection with the state. She went to college across the river from West Virginia in the Northern Panhandle. So she spent time in Wheeling while she was in college across the river. She told me that when she was in college, she'd look across the Ohio river and think of West Virginia as the motherland. So she had kind of a deep emotional connection, if not a lifelong connection, if not the connection of a West Virginia native.

[Sean Ramford]

All that being said, there are West Virginians who take issue with some of the references in the lyrics, namely these.

[Charlie Harding]

Two Blue Ridge Mountains.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Shenandoah River. Yes. I mean, geographically speaking, the Shenandoah only crosses a tiny bit of the state. And the Blue Ridge Mountains, they're present in just a tiny part of the state. So, like, geographically, they're talking about a very small piece. So I think lots of West Virginians say, yeah, but it's not really about us, except we live in this cultural landscape where West Virginians are either derided or are completely invisible. We're always making this ongoing accounting of existing, and that's an extreme sentiment, but it happens to all of us. Or a celebrity says something really terrible or makes a hillbilly joke, and we can say, well, we've got Country Roads. Like, here's evidence that we were recognized and that we were loved. So West Virginians use it in all these really utilitarian ways. People sing it at funerals, people singing at weddings, at graduations, at family reunions. Join us as the class of 2016 sings Country Roads. I can't believe how many people have told me stories about family vacations where when they cross the state line, mom and dad wake everybody up and you sing Country Roads. Right? It's a thing. I thought it was just my family. It's not. It's a thing. They sing it at protests in governmental offices. It's everywhere in the state. People decorate their houses with it. I probably have five different Country Roads themed T shirts. People tattoo it on their bodies, right? That it's this. It's used rhetorically in lots of different ways. But I think something really important, important to understand is that Country Road speaks to West Virginians because leaving is infused into our cultural consciousness. From 1950 to about the year 2000, West Virginia lost nearly 800,000 people. People migrating out because there aren't jobs. The industry is by and large own from the outside, right? Businesses close, we export a lot of our resources, and we continue to lose population in numbers larger than any other state. We just lost another congressional seat because of population loss. So we're taught that we have to leave to succeed. There's no home for us here, and that if we want to stay, maybe we can't. And so Country Roads really calls to that.

[Sean Ramford]

I asked Sarah to tell us more about how Country Roads has been used in protests, because this is not exactly, you know, Rage against the Machine. She said she herself witnessed students belting the song on West Virginia University's campus in Morgantown.

[Emma Chamberlain]

So this was a speaker, as I recall, that had a religious message, and he was holding a sign. And sometimes, you know, college campuses, we get folks who come through as, like, itinerant preachers. And I think that's the kind of situation. But I think he was saying something pretty divisive. I don't know. I couldn't hear it. All I could hear was Country Roads. But I've seen this pattern of West Virginians using it in congressional offices. Like, I was able to find recordings of folks Using it to protest Rockwool, which is an industrial plant that was being put in in the eastern part of the state, West Virginia.

[Sean Ramford]

Mount Obama. Take me home.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Country Road. There was a tweet that went out some time ago that said that, you know, being arrested while singing Country Roads is peak Appalachian experience for someone who's engaging in civic discourse. So I do think it's used for all of these different rhetorical purposes.

[Sean Ramford]

Do you think the song itself is political? This idea of home that clearly strikes a chord with people, no matter where they're from, feels more emotional than political. But does this song have a politics?

[Emma Chamberlain]

Oh, well, our emotions are tied up in politics. I mean, especially today. Right. So much of our political landscape is governed by emotion rather than reason. So when a candidate plays Country Roads at a rally. Oh, we think he's on our side. If you're from West Virginia.

[Sean Ramford]

And do our candidates play this song at rallies?

[Emma Chamberlain]

Yes. Yeah. There's a really great clip of President Trump using Country Roads at a speech in Charleston. And when the music is shut off before the song is over, the audience keeps singing.

[Jason Jung]

Beautiful West Virginia.

[Emma Chamberlain]

In the days after Trump used the song, John Denver's estate came out and said that they don't endorse any political candidate using the song. But I don't. I don't think. I don't think it's wrong, and I don't think it makes the song divisive. I think it still has those connective qualities, whether we're using it, whether a politician is using it at a campaign stop or whether it's used in a beer commercial or whether it's used to sell tires or whatever. Right. And that's another aspect that I've been thinking about, is it's used to create affiliation and a sense of belonging, and political campaigns do that. We want to associate our values with a candidate's values, and playing the right song allows for that, just the same as playing the right song helps us sell a Google home device or whatever. There's a booking for every resolution. Book yours at any [e-mail].

[Sean Ramford]

Get on the song.

[Emma Chamberlain]

Okay. Google. Turn on the hall lights.

[Sean Ramford]

Daddy. Do you think this song is singing about a state in a country that maybe sometimes just doesn't exist anymore? I mean, I know you're saying this song can be used as a political statement because politics are emotional, but it also seems to transcend politics in that there are liberal people who love this song, and there are conservative people who love this song, and there are people who have a strong connection to West Virginia who love this song. And there's people who listen to this song and want to move to West Virginia. It seems to just transcend all of the stereotypes or biases we might have about a certain place. And yet people. I don't know, people seem to want to wear their biases on their sleeve now. They want to not just vote in an election, they want to fly Trump flags and they want to fly Fuck Trump flags, which was in the news recently. You know, is the world of this song a thing of the past?

[Emma Chamberlain]

I would venture to say that it's a thing that never existed. Hmm. So I think one of the things that Country Roads does is create an imaginary landscape that's flexible and can be applied to any home. So one of the concepts that I work with in my book is horiath, which is a. It's a Welsh term that means something like homesickness, but not quite. It's like a deep existential longing for a place that you've never been or a place that doesn't really exist in the first place. So I think there's this sense of imaginary landscape that taps into a deep seated, universal feeling of wanting to belong to a place and to each other. And that's what gives the song power, which is why we see it transformed in so many different ways that it's not really about West Virginia. And yet West Virginians can take it up, but like West Omeka, Tuts and the Maytals can make it West Jamaica or Israel. Kavaivole can make it West Makaha. West Makaha. Or there's a really great group of sisters called the Muaypei Quartet who talk about Kenya, almost heaven that is Kenya. So it's flexible and taps into something ineffable. Right. Something that's this deep human need, and that's what I think the power comes from. But for West Virginians, it's different because it calls us out by name in a way that we're not used to being called out.

[Sean Ramford]

Professor Sarah Morris, West Virginia University. You also heard from Jason Jung. He's got a piece in the Atlantic from a few years back titled the Song that Sold America to a Generation of Asian Immigrants. And also Charlie Harding, he's got a show called Switched On Pop, and they did an episode about country roads last year. Our program today was produced by Victoria Chamberlain. We were edited by Matthew Collette, Fact Checked by Laura Bullard and mixed by Andrea Christensdotter and Patrick Boyd. Thanks to West Virginia Native and Death, Sex and Money host Anna Sale for her counsel on this one. All hail Anna Sale. This is today.