Podcast Summary: Today, Explained

Episode: Can Trump help Sudan?
Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Noel King and Sean Rameswaram
Guests: Alex de Waal (World Peace Foundation, Tufts), Josh Keating (Vox), [audio clips from Donald Trump]

Overview

This episode of Today, Explained delves into Sudan’s ongoing civil war, examining its recent escalations and the international diplomatic impasse. The central question: Can former President Donald Trump, with his unique relationships and style, meaningfully pressure regional actors to end the conflict? Through expert insight from Sudan scholar Alex de Waal and foreign policy reporter Josh Keating, the episode explores the war’s roots, the motivations of key players, and the prospects—however slim—for peace brokered by U.S. intervention.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shocking Announcement: Trump Enters the Sudan Arena

• [00:00] At a U.S.-Saudi investment event, Donald Trump unexpectedly declared U.S. involvement in Sudan at Saudi request.
  • Donald Trump [00:10]: “It was not on my charts to be involved in that. I thought it was just something that was crazy and out of control. But I just see how important that is to you and to a lot of your friends in the room. Sudan. And we're going to start working in Sudan.”

2. How Sudan Got Here: A Short History of Coup and War

• [00:35] Sudan has endured decades of violent military rule, with brief hope for democracy crushed by another coup in 2021.
• Alex de Waal [01:00]: “The military leaders fell out, as thieves and warlords so often do, and plunge the country into yet another war, which is what we see now.”
• The current conflict pits two former allied generals, Burhan (SAF) and Hemetti (RSF), against each other—both accused of war crimes and genocide.

3. Darfur’s Fresh Tragedy: The Fall of El Fasher

• [02:40] New satellite imagery and survivor accounts reveal atrocities in recently conquered El Fasher.
• Alex de Waal [03:14]: “So they sided with the so called government and they became the last place in Darfur that was resisting the Rapid Support Forces, this very vicious paramilitary. And just a few weeks ago, the RSF overran that garrison.”
• [04:51] Accounts detail systematic killings, rape, and terrorization of civilians, with much of it filmed and shared by perpetrators.
  • Alex de Waal [05:21]: “And you see their relish, the enjoyment with which they torture and torment their victims before killing them. These are videos that are simply too horrible to watch.”

4. The Warlords: Who Are Sudan’s Two Generals?

General Abdelfattah al-Burhan (SAF)

• [05:50] A career soldier with a murky history—former Darfur war commander, Saudi-Emirati mercenary, and crony capitalist.
• [07:00] Wants to restore the “status quo,” but is dependent on hardline Islamist factions who reject peace.
• [07:53] Has also overseen war crimes, including intentional starvation tactics and blocking humanitarian aid.

General Mohammad Hamdan “Hemetti” Dagalo (RSF)

• [08:24] Former leader of the notorious Janjaweed, responsible for earlier genocides.
• Alex de Waal [08:24]: “He took control of gold mines, artisanal gold mines in Darfur, became extremely wealthy...he basically would like to see power in the hands of him and his family, running the country as though it's really a family business with his own private army, his own companies in charge.”
• [10:09] Hemetti claims to represent the poor and marginalized, but his forces are implicated in systematic atrocities and genocidal campaigns in Darfur.

5. The Entrenched Cycle of Violence

• [11:37] Alex de Waal links decades of conflict and poverty to the escalation of ruthless warlordism.
  • Alex de Waal [11:37]: “Over those 40 years you can trace how the pressures and the traumas of hunger and of conflict have translated into this merciless political cult that we have today.”

International Diplomacy: The “Quad” and New Ceasefire Efforts

6. Stalemate and the Opening for Diplomacy

• [16:52] Josh Keating explains the war may now be a “hurting stalemate,” where neither side can win but both continue fighting.
  • Josh Keating [16:52]: “Both sides are continuing to fight despite knowing that they don’t really have a chance to victory. But they're continuing to...inflict really horrendous atrocities against the civilian population of Sudan.”
• The “Quad” (U.S., Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE) recently advanced a new ceasefire proposal (three-month humanitarian pause, nine-month transition to civilian rule).
  • [18:42] The RSF agreed to the U.S.-backed ceasefire, while the SAF has not.

7. The U.S. Role—And Trump’s Leverage

• Traditionally, U.S. engagement with Sudan has waxed and waned.
  • Josh Keating [20:14]: “Sudan is sort of steadily slid down the list of priorities for the US over successive administrations.”
• Despite the Biden administration’s limited focus, the Trump administration’s relationships in the Gulf, and new pressure from allies, may signal renewed engagement.

8. UAE Support for the RSF—and Why

• [21:21] Secretary of State Rubio urges cutting off RSF's external support—widely believed to flow from the UAE, who have financial and strategic interests in Sudanese gold and Red Sea ports. Despite overwhelming evidence, the U.S. has been careful not to name the UAE directly.
  • Josh Keating [23:04]: “The Trump family...have enormous amount of money in real estate and cryptocurrency deals in Abu Dhabi. So the ties here are pretty close.”
• Trump’s close business and diplomatic ties could, in theory, be leveraged to pressure the UAE.

The Motives and Prospects for Peace

9. Why Does the UAE Back the RSF?

• [23:51] It’s part regional influence strategy, part business—Darfur’s gold flows through UAE markets.
  • Josh Keating [23:51]: “...a significant amount of gold is leaving Sudan through channels connected to the leadership of the RSF and heading to the gold trading centers in the United Arab Emirates.”

10. Trump’s Style, Ambitions, and the Path Forward

• [25:36] Trump relishes conflict resolution for glory and aspires to the Nobel Peace Prize.
  • Noel King [25:53]: “He wants the Nobel Peace Prize. We know that.”
  • Donald Trump [25:53]: “I can't think of any president that ever solved one war. I don't think anybody. They start wars, they don't solve them. So nothing like this has been done in history.”

11. Is Peace Possible?

• [26:10] Josh Keating is skeptical, warning against Trump’s tendency to oversimplify, but acknowledges that Trump’s Gulf ties could unite outside actors.
  • Josh Keating [26:10]: “He would love to be able to announce that he's the one who brought peace to Sudan... I think like the best hope we have now is that he can sort of bring the outside actors together...and hopefully that can have some impact on the ground in Sudan and bring an end to this sort of dizzyingly complex and really destructive war.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Donald Trump’s surprise involvement:
  “It was not on my charts to be involved in that. I thought it was just something that was crazy and out of control.” [00:10]
• Alex de Waal describing brutality:
  “And you see their relish, the enjoyment with which they torture and torment their victims before killing them.” [05:21]
• On the war’s tragic generation-spanning effects:
  “Over those 40 years you can trace how the pressures and the traumas of hunger and of conflict have translated into this merciless political cult that we have today.” [11:37]
• Josh Keating on U.S. disengagement:
  “Sudan is sort of steadily slid down the list of priorities for the US over successive administrations.” [20:14]
• On Trump’s Nobel ambitions:
  “He wants the Nobel Peace Prize. We know that.” [25:51]
• Josh Keating’s sober assessment of Trump’s unique leverage:
  “His relationships in the Gulf, as sort of like, ethically and legally questionable as they may be, do kind of allow him to do business in that part of the world in a way that sort of traditional US diplomacy has not always.” [26:10]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump’s Announcement: [00:00]–[00:35]
• Sudan’s History and Current War: [00:35]–[01:28]
• Darfur Atrocities in El Fasher: [02:40]–[05:36]
• Profiles of Burhan and Hemetti: [05:36]–[11:37]
• Roots of Sudan’s Cycle of Violence: [11:37]–[12:48]
• Diplomacy and “The Quad”: [16:35]–[19:36]
• UAE’s Support for RSF/US Leverage: [21:26]–[23:51]
• Trump’s Ambitions & Ceasefire Prospects: [25:36]–[27:37]

Conclusion

Today, Explained outlines the bleak state of Sudan but finds a potential—if unpredictable—opening for peace. The episode underscores the horrors on the ground, the intractability of the two generals, and the complex regional interests at play. Donald Trump's sudden interest in Sudan is driven by pressure from powerful Gulf States and his perennial desire for peacemaker status. Whether that translates into real leverage—and actual change—remains unclear, but the stakes for millions of Sudanese civilians could not be higher.