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- [00:01]
John Phylyn Hill
Support for this show comes from Fetch Pet Insurance. Do you have a pet? Every six seconds a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill of over $1,000 and it's almost always an unwelcome surprise. That's where Fetch pet insurance comes in. Fetch is the most complete pet insurance. Get paid back up to 90% of vet bills. You can use any vet in the US and Canada. All vets are in network. Go to fetchpet.comsave right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.com Save
- [00:37]
Fetch Pet Insurance Announcer
support for today explained comes from Fetch. Fetch is pet insurance if you hadn't figured it out. Do you have a pet? According to a study from a pet insurance company from a few years ago, every six seconds a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill over $1,000 and it almost never comes at a convenient time. So check out Fetch. You get paid up to 90% of vet bills. You can use Fetch for any vet in the US and Canada. Every vet is in network. Go to fetchpet.comsave right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet.comsave
- [01:19]
Sarah Todd
I don't see it being worth living to 100. That sounds way too long.
- [01:24]
Roger Rosenblatt
Look to seeing a rose bloom to see the sun rise. You should always be in awe about
- [01:30]
John Phylyn Hill
everything because inevitably if you outlive your family and your friends, then you're the last one there. My grandmother lived to be 97. She was active in church, had long friendships with her sorority sisters, and saw all six of her grandchildren go off to college. And by the time she passed, she'd done just about everything she wanted to do with those genes. I feel like I've got a good chance of living long too. But I'm also exercising, trying to eat right, resting, doing all the things to stack the deck in my favor. There's an entire movement of people who are working text in their lives and some of them are going to extremes. I'm jonphylyn Hill and this week on Explain it to Me from Vox, the quest to live forever, or at least to 150. Sarah Todd's a reporter for Stat News, where she covers health and recently she went to the Burning man of the longevity movement.
- [02:40]
Sarah Todd
This was called Vitalist Bay. It takes place in Berkeley, California, and this was just its second year of being in existence. It's an outgrowth of a movement of people who call themselves vitalists and their focus is on beating death.
- [02:55]
John Phylyn Hill
At Vitalist Bay, you'll experience the healthiest, most productive time of your life.
- [03:01]
Sarah Todd
It's a combination of people who are general longevity enthusiasts as well as people who are investing in companies, working on different drugs, researchers, you know, people from sort of all cross sections of the longevity world.
- [03:14]
John Phylyn Hill
Join us at Vitalist Bay and let's make aging history. You know, when I think of people who are trying to live forever, I think of a very certain type of bro billionaire. Who did you meet at this conference? What were the people like? Was it all billionaires?
- [03:34]
Sarah Todd
Interestingly, no. And this was something that took me by surprise. You know, I had the same idea. We think of Brian Johnson, the rich guy who, you know, transfuses the blood of his first born son.
- [03:46]
Roger Rosenblatt
And I thought it would be pretty epic if my son, my father and I completed the world's first multi generational plasma exchange.
- [03:55]
Sarah Todd
Actually, I don't think he does that anymore, but he used to for longevity reasons. But the people at this conference, you know, I would certainly say they were people who are doing well for themselves. There are, you know, a fair amount of people who work in tech, that kind of thing, but they were not rich in the way that billionaires are rich. And, and it was also a more diverse group than I had been expecting. There were a fair amount of women and people of color there. So that was really interesting to see.
- [04:28]
John Phylyn Hill
Are there particular reasons that these folks want to live longer? What's the motivating factor behind this?
- [04:35]
Sarah Todd
A lot of people were very outspoken about the idea that they're not afraid of death per se. They are more aware of death, I would say, than a lot of people in our average lives. But the people who I spoke with about this, a lot of them said what they really wanted out of longevity was to have enough time to do all the things that they wanted to do in life. They're worried that the average lifespan isn't long enough. And they were also really concerned not just about lifespan, but about health span. You know, the idea of being healthy well into your old age, into your 80s and 90s and beyond. A lot of folks had relatives with Alzheimer's or dementia. You know what people want when it comes to the health of the mind and the brain? They want to remain themselves for as long as they can. There was one company that had a booth called Neuroage. Their idea is that you can measure the, the biological age of your brain. And with that data, which they draw from a combination of MRI scans and blood tests, they say maybe we can help you figure out how to address certain things. The founder I spoke with said that she had grown her hippocampus by 1.5% or something like that. This is, you know, not, you know, clinically validated with lots and lots of human trials. These are, this is a business, but it's certainly an area that a lot of companies are looking to get into.
- [06:05]
John Phylyn Hill
What were some of the more out there ideas you heard about?
- [06:09]
Sarah Todd
Okay, so there were some really interesting ones. One that I hadn't heard about before going is the concept of bodyoids. Hi, jq, it's me, your bodyoid. So this is an idea. There were two people from different startups that are working on this right now of producing basically headless stacks of organs that you would then harvest in order to replace other failing organs. I don't have a brain, but if
- [06:33]
John Phylyn Hill
you need a heart, a liver, a kidney, maybe an eyeball, I got you. Oh, okay. Well, one that sounds creepy and upsetting. Also it's giving like ship of Theseus, like at some point this is no longer me. If it's not my original, like, I don't know everything.
- [06:51]
Sarah Todd
Totally, that, that's 100% a concern. And you know, I spoke with somebody, one of the other conference attendees, who said basically that he was like, if you're replacing these organs, even if it's not your brain itself, you know, what are you doing to your consciousness and to your personality? Is it still you?
- [07:06]
John Phylyn Hill
Come on, you're still you, jq. Just a little pressure.
- [07:14]
Sarah Todd
And you know, understandably there's a lot of sort of like people who find the idea of doing this in humans to be quite creepy. Right now the startups that are working on this are not focused on humans. They're looking at doing this in animals like pigs and monkeys. And there are, you know, some interesting implications, not just for, you know, the longevity movement, but we do have a consistent problem with a lack of supply of organs for people who need, or, you know, who need a new kidney. So that's one really interesting idea. And the idea of organ replacement overall is really popular. One person, one speaker there outlined this idea of injecting bone marrow in your 40s, your kidney in your 50s, your heart in your 60s, and so on, and then potentially a whole body transplant by the time that you were 90 so that you would be in a whole new body and be biologically 18 years old.
- [08:04]
John Phylyn Hill
That seems very wild and far off. Is there a timeline for this and some of the other technology they talked about?
- [08:11]
Sarah Todd
You know, I think that a lot of people predict like maybe 10 years, 20 years, but nobody, nobody really knows right when, when all this stuff is going to come together. I do think that there are a lot of products out right now, though, that are, you know, less wild and far out. There was a van there offering full body scans, for example. We did a mass blood test together. I wondered at the time that this was some sort of Guinness world record for blood tests because it was, you know, hundreds of people sit getting together, doing it. So, yeah, there are definitely a lot of longevity products out there right now. Their scientific validity is another question, but they're certainly available for purchase.
- [08:55]
John Phylyn Hill
I think there's an irony here. You know, people have been wanting to live longer forever, but you cannot beat the inevitable. Death is the great equalizer. It comes for us all. Why are these folks so hopeful when, you know, this is the one fact of life we all die?
- [09:13]
Sarah Todd
Yeah, it's a great question. I think, you know, one is that overall the, the people who are drawn to the longevity movement tend to be very optimistic. So they're gonna think on average that there's a better chance of beating death than I think the average person might consider then. The other thing I think is a lot of faith in technology and scientific progress. Some people I spoke with said, yeah, it's that, you know, for, for most of human history, there hasn't been anything that we could do about it, despite lots of people who have tried, you know, since, since going back to the ancient Egyptians and Chinese emperors. But at the same time, they say now it's different. We've got AI, we've got, you know, the possibility of cryopreservation. We've got all of these different types of things that, that could potentially help people live longer. So I think that's, that's the idea. It's a lot of faith in technology and progress.
- [10:19]
John Phylyn Hill
Some of the ways we might live longer sound like they're right out of a sci fi novel. Up next, what you can do for longevity Right here, right now.
- [10:40]
Fetch Pet Insurance Announcer
Support for today explained comes from Fetch pet insurance. Here's what surprises a lot of pet owners. Something like every six seconds, a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill over $1,000. And when I say hit, it sometimes feels like you're getting hit. Because I can speak from personal experience that I've been hitting with a vet bill over $1,000 and I don't even have a pet. According to consumeradvocate.org fetch is the most complete pet insurance for dogs and cats. You get paid back up to 90% of vet bills for accidents, illness, diagnostics, and more. All vets are in network so you can use Fetch for any vet in the US or Canada. Get your Fetch free custom quote in about 2 minutes@fetchpet.com save that's fetchpet.com save fetch love longer that's nice.
- [11:47]
ShipStation Announcer
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- [12:52]
John Phylyn Hill
I'm JQ back with more. Explain it to me. Brian Walsh is an editorial director here at Vox. He's also an editor for our Future Perfect section, which basically looks at ways to make our world better. Recently he went into the doctor's office for a routine checkup and he left with something to write about on top
- [13:11]
Brian Walsh
of like, thankfully, like mostly just no bad news. Which is the best you can kind of hope for at this age. I asked my doctor about something new, which was the shingles vaccine, and I asked him about that. Not because I'm even eligible for it. You're not eligible until you're 50. Or even that I was necessarily worried about shingles at the moment, but because I've heard and looked at studies that indicate that it might have a pretty powerful protective effect against neurodegenerative diseases like dementia and Alzheimer's.
- [13:41]
John Phylyn Hill
What does the shingles vaccine have to do with dementia?
- [13:44]
Brian Walsh
That is an excellent question that scientists are still looking into. So basically this began with a study that happened in Wales a few years ago where there was basically an age cutoff among people who were eligible to get this vaccine. And what they found was that the vaccinated group was 20% less likely to develop dementia over like seven years. Following getting that vaccine in people who have established dementia, it prevents progression or slows progression of the disease, which is truly a remarkable finding. And then there have been other studies that have kind of replicated this finding. There was actually one that came out this month here in the US and that found that there was a 24% lower risk of developing dementia in a study that was like 500,000 people, which is pretty impressive. Why that is is not entirely clear. And it hasn't always been found. There have been other trials that sort of didn't quite see this effect, but there's some thought that the virus itself might actually, when it gets reactivated, cause neuroinflammation that could be connected to dementia. It's also possible that simply the immune boosting effect of these vaccines may seem to sort of protect yourself against whatever it is that's connected with dementia. So it's almost like it has a side effect that is would be really, really helpful because that's a big effect if that actually holds.
- [15:03]
John Phylyn Hill
So the shingles vaccine is a good example of a possible longevity hack. I'm curious, in terms of things that are available right now to anyone, what's in your power rankings?
- [15:14]
Brian Walsh
There's things everyone can do right now to really help themselves. And I'd say just starting, kind of like a countdown.
- [15:19]
Roger Rosenblatt
Good afternoon.
- [15:20]
Sarah Todd
It's your drive time.
- [15:21]
Fetch Pet Insurance Announcer
Longevity tips from Buh Buh Buh buh
- [15:23]
Brian Walsh
buh buh buh buh.
- [15:24]
Roger Rosenblatt
Brian Walsh coming in.
- [15:26]
Brian Walsh
Number four, Be social. As we get older, isolation does tend to set in. Like, you actually see this in data. People, like, see fewer people. They're less and less connected. And that really has a risk to your brain. People who are socially isolated, some studies have found they have something like a 32% higher risk of early death. You can actually see it sometimes in imaging studies. So whatever you can do to begin to work up, you know, more and more social connections or just maintain the ones you have, because just like your body tends to break down as you get older, those social connections can too. You know, not only will that ideally help protect your brain for the long term, but also, you know, it will make you happier, it'll make you feel more connected in the moment too.
- [16:08]
Fetch Pet Insurance Announcer
And now, number three, so eating, there's
- [16:11]
Brian Walsh
really a lot of evidence that the Mediterranean diet, which is basically, you know, a diet that uses olive oil rather than butter, a lot of vegetables, whole grains, fish as the protein, very little red meat that's been found to really have an impact on reducing cancer, heart disease, even serious cognitive decline. That's probably a single diet that's most connected and certainly it's something I try to do at my home. We eat a lot of fish. Reducing saturated fat doesn't mean you can't eat these other things.
- [16:42]
John Phylyn Hill
Yeah, I was gonna say RFK told me that red meat and saturated fat are actually so cool right now.
- [16:47]
Sarah Todd
We are ending the war on saturated fats.
- [16:51]
Brian Walsh
It's funny because saturated fat was the devil in nutrit for a very long time. Like I think we over corrected on that one. Like some saturated fat, some dairy is actually probably fine. But you know, would I eat steak every day like apparently RFK does? I would not. Number two, get strong. What we're really learning is that when it comes to work that can be done on the body to really ensure that you have a body that can last for the distance, strength training is really, really important. Basically, after your 20s, muscle mass just will continually fall. If you build it now, it's like banking more so you can lose that later, which unfortunately is inevitable. But you can put it off as long as possible by building muscle, by building strength right now. And you know, that brings me to something really important here, which is like when we talk about, you know, healthy longevity, it's not necessarily the final number that you hit. What people really want to maximize and really focus on is, is what we call health span, which is the number of years you have of healthy life. And that's where the good eating, the social connection, the strength training helps to maximize and make those years as long as possible. Because I think that's what you really want. At the end of the day, if
- [18:02]
John Phylyn Hill
you did not start lifting or like getting strong in your twenties, are you cooked? Like, is it so over for you? Do you like, are you?
- [18:08]
Brian Walsh
No, it's never over. I mean, it's never. It's literally never too late. An hour of resistance work a week will get you most of the benefit you need. And you don't have to be crazy about it, but you do have to do it.
- [18:22]
John Phylyn Hill
Okay, what is your number one recommendation? To fight Father Time.
- [18:27]
Brian Walsh
And number one, it is sleep.
- [18:32]
John Phylyn Hill
Ooh, that's the hardest one.
- [18:34]
Brian Walsh
It weirdly is the hardest one. You think it would be the easiest one, right? Literally all you do is lie down and close your eyes. But that really is the difference. And we really do know seven plus hours on a regular basis is tied to lower risk of heart disease, lower risk of diabetes, low risk of cancer. It's probably like the most neuroprotective thing you can do for your brain on a regular basis. And beyond that, what's really important is not just getting lots of sleep, but trying to get deep sleep. Specifically, deep sleep seems to be the one that really has the neuroprotective effect against dementia and things like that.
- [19:07]
John Phylyn Hill
I think at times I can be skeptical of longevity strategies. Like all of these things are part of a healthy lifestyle. Yes. But it's really easy to fixate and to let it sort of become your whole life to the point that you're so busy working on living a longer life, living a healthier life that you're not enjoying the things that make life worth living. How do you square that? How do you think about that?
- [19:35]
Brian Walsh
What I'm focusing on is like, I want to feel good now. I want to have the best life I have now because that's the time I know I'll have. I mean, there's no guarantee to anyone in the future. You could be the most longevity obsessed wellness influencer. And you know, a terrible thing can happen to you at 55. That's why you should like what you're doing. And like with all these things, you know, whether it's the diet, whether it's the sleep, whether it's exercise, like, find ways that you want to do them because if you feel like you're just forcing yourself to do it, you're not going to. No one has that willpower, certainly doesn't have that willpower to like, get a goal that won't pay off for, you know, 15, 20, 30 years.
- [20:16]
John Phylyn Hill
Let's say you lock in, do what you can, and have the good fortune of living into your 80s, 90s, maybe even 100. Then what? What actually makes life worth living? That's coming up.
- [20:37]
ShipStation Announcer
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- [21:36]
Fetch Pet Insurance Announcer
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- [22:31]
John Phylyn Hill
Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges, stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on a J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, my Pay Spot Me and travel perks, go to Chime.com disclosures. I'm JQ back with Explain it to Me.
- [22:57]
Roger Rosenblatt
Roger Rosenblatt I'm a writer, former professor of English and writing at Harvard and a few other places Georgetown, Columbia and Stony Brook.
- [23:09]
John Phylyn Hill
So you recently published a book called More Rules for Aging. It's the sequel to a book you wrote 25 years ago called Rules for Aging. What do you know about aging now in your mid-80s that you didn't know when you initially wrote that first book?
- [23:26]
Roger Rosenblatt
Well, the interesting thing is actually, because I've done it, I've aged. When I wrote that book 25 years ago, it really wasn't for aging. It was sort of general kind of funny, I guess. Rules on how to get old, how to make it. In other words, how to achieve old age then once having achieved it. If you call that an Achievement. I've been able to understand all the complexities that go with being old, and they are multiple.
- [23:55]
John Phylyn Hill
How do you balance the things you love about aging with the things that you don't love about it?
- [23:59]
Roger Rosenblatt
That is the essential question. The things I don't love about it is the frailty of the body. I used to play sports, I used to walk, I used to breathe. And all of the functions of the body that you take for granted as you get older, start to fade and fade precipitously. At age 80, I would love to
- [24:23]
John Phylyn Hill
know what you make of the longevity movement, this desire to live longer and longer and maybe not die at all.
- [24:32]
Roger Rosenblatt
Well, there are a lot of people who are dead and don't know it, so they are walking contradictions of the rule. But the other part of it is rather than wondering about how science will keep us living longer, it's a question of how to live. And that to me is a far more serious question, one that I was trying to to toy with this morning, thinking of another essay on the idea of peace and the achievement of peace in old age. And by peace I do not mean the absence of strife or the absence of war. I mean an understanding of the comprehensible, complex and changing beautiful world around us. To achieve that kind of peace is something that only comes of old age because you've had a long enough time to see it all. I have a wonderful view of the east river, technically an estuary, from my apartment in New York City. The river goes on and on beyond certain islands and then disappears into, eventually into the Atlantic. But what I can see from my river are boats and people and people walking and cars driving and ducks in a row and dogs being walked and birds in the air and trees that are blooming in different seasons. I can see it all from my. I'm lucky. I can see it all from my window. And what I am seeing is the variegated world that deserves appreciation and love, frankly. And so the piece that I'm talking about is really learning to love the world.
- [26:12]
John Phylyn Hill
You know, a lot of people want to live into their 80s, 90s, 1/ hundreds, but they want to do that with the body of a 20 year old. If science gets to that point, if that happens, do you think they'll lose something that people often gain as they age?
- [26:27]
Roger Rosenblatt
Well, unless the 20 year old is as stupid as the actual 20 year old that you were, I wouldn't worry about it. It's the idea of how you're thinking about it. It'd be great. Sure, it'd be great to have. I would do anything. Anything. I used to play basketball. Anything to be able to play basketball. I'd do anything to a lift of basketball now. But that, that is not to be. But I can see, you know, I can. I can see the world in a generous way. The way the world I believe has been given to us in a generous way. And that I only have achieved in the last few years.
- [27:00]
John Phylyn Hill
If science got to that point, would you want to live to 150? Like that's the number a lot of the folks in the longevity space mention. I wonder what you think of that.
- [27:10]
Roger Rosenblatt
If my marbles are in use for that time and I don't bother anyone else, my wife, my children, my grandchildren with taking care of me. If that were the case, then I wouldn't mind living 150 years or any number of years. But if the mind were to go, that is, if the mind were to become less observant. I don't mean such a good mind. I mean it is an observant mind. I've been blessed with that. If that were to go, then I would say draw the curtain.
- [27:41]
John Phylyn Hill
I wanna play some tape for you. You're enjoying your later years. But that is not true for everyone. Miles, who's producing this show, his grandpa's 90.
- [27:51]
Roger Rosenblatt
I am Jack Morrill. I'm a 90 year old former academic now living in a one room assisted living room in Greencastle, Indiana.
- [28:01]
John Phylyn Hill
And he's not moving around as much as he used to, but his mind is totally there. And he told Miles that this is sometimes made aging even harder.
- [28:11]
Roger Rosenblatt
I get ideas and there's no one
- [28:12]
John Phylyn Hill
to bounce them off of.
- [28:14]
Roger Rosenblatt
I used to be able to watch
- [28:15]
John Phylyn Hill
ball games from beginning to end and
- [28:17]
Roger Rosenblatt
I get more bored more easily. My wife died on Easter Day 2024. So it's a lonely life.
- [28:27]
John Phylyn Hill
Do you have any advice for someone like Jack? You know people who are your peers who've outlived a lot of loved ones and are still struggling to find meaning in this particular season of life, it
- [28:40]
Roger Rosenblatt
is truly a problem. And if you have outlived all your loved ones and have no one, it's not so much to bounce ideas off as usually have friends. I have a gang of guys who will outlive me because each one is about 10 years younger and so. And we call them meatheads. And we have been friends for 50 years. Started out just going to see bad movies together and then we meet once a month and just kid around. That is a valuable thing, actually. I fortified myself by building a whole coterie of friends who will grow old with me, providing that we all do.
- [29:18]
John Phylyn Hill
I'm in my mid-30s. I don't consider myself quite in midlife yet. I'm giving myself a little bit more.
- [29:24]
Roger Rosenblatt
Oh, yeah, you are. You are a kid. Actuarially, you're a kid and you are mid-30s is nothing. I would say you start to understand the definitions of middle age when you hit your late 40s.
- [29:38]
Brian Walsh
Mm.
- [29:39]
John Phylyn Hill
What advice do you have for me? What's a better way to approach my own aging? How do I embrace this so that I can sort of have that sense of peace now and into hopefully my 80s?
- [29:54]
Roger Rosenblatt
Well, one way, certainly not to waste your time talking to people like me. But the second but one way I seriously mean I realize how repetitive I sound is that be aware of how much you appreciate the world around you. For my writing students, when they would say they were stuck and they had a blank spot and they couldn't think of a subject to write about, I would say, go for a walk, take out a kayak, go for a bike ride. Do something. It will come to you. It will come to you. And I say the same to you. The world will come to you. The I don't know how this happens. I think I know why it happens. It happens because whatever design there is to the world, part of it is that it makes creatures who are appreciative or ought to be appreciative of the world itself. And so if we can see the world as something so various, so new, so continuously, insistently new, then old age is a happy stage of life.
- [31:10]
John Phylyn Hill
And that's our show. We want your help with an upcoming episode. We're talking about our relationship with the sun. Tanning is back big time, but we want your stories of your worst sunburn, the day that makes you peel just thinking about it. Give us a call at 1-800-618-8545 or send an email to askvoxox.com becoming a Vox member will not make you look like you just got back from vacation, but it will let you listen to this and other Vox podcasts ad free. Head to Vox.com members to learn more. This episode was produced by Myles Bryan. It was edited by Ginny Lawton, Fact checked by Melissa Hirsch, engineered by Patrick Boyd. Our executive producer is Miranda Kennedy, and I'm your host, John Glen Hill. Thank you so much for listening. Bye.
- [32:21]
Brian Walsh
This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new.
- [32:27]
John Phylyn Hill
It can help you with practically anything
- [32:28]
Brian Walsh
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