Canadian bakin’

Summary

Today, Explained: "Canadian Bakin’" – Episode Summary

Episode Details:

• Title: Canadian Bakin’
• Release Date: January 3, 2025
• Hosts: Sean Rameswaram and Maren Kogan
• Description: This episode delves into the rising trend of marijuana use in the United States, the complexities of its legalization, and a comparative analysis with Canada's federally legalized system.

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1. New Year, New Habits: The Rise of Marijuana Use

Introduction to Changing Habits (00:00 - 02:18)
As the new year begins, hosts Sean Rameswaram and Maren Kogan discuss the shift from traditional habits like drinking to alternative activities such as smoking marijuana. Sean humorously remarks, "It's a new year... something like one in five people who do dry January say they're smoking weed instead" (00:07). Maren Kogan emphasizes the growing acceptance, stating, "My position on marijuana is that it should be federally legalized" (00:44).

Key Statistics:

• Daily Usage Surge: In 2022, over 17.7 million Americans reported daily or near-daily marijuana use, surpassing daily alcohol consumption (02:25).
• Demographic Insights: Approximately 5% of the American population engages in daily marijuana use (02:40).

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2. Understanding the Surge in Marijuana Consumption

Personal Insights and Anecdotes (02:55 - 04:04)
Dr. James McKillop shares his personal experience, "I smoke weed all day. So I would. Yeah, I would imagine it would be worse if I didn't" (02:58). This segment highlights the normalization of marijuana use among various demographics.

Varied Consumption Patterns (03:06 - 04:18)
Maren explores the diversity in usage habits:

• Self-Medication: Users might employ marijuana to combat insomnia, leading to practices like "wake and bake" (03:20).
• Potency and Dosing Issues: The uncertainty surrounding dosage and potency complicates safe consumption, with Maren recounting her own intense experience, "I literally disassociated. I was talking to the refrigerator, bawling my eyes out, throwing up" (07:51).

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3. Health Implications of Increased Marijuana Use

Potential Risks and Disorders (04:51 - 06:49)
Maren addresses the misconception that marijuana is entirely harmless:

• Cannabis Use Disorder: Columbia University studies estimate that up to 18 million Americans may suffer from some form of addiction (04:54).
• Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome (CHS): Recurrent nausea and vomiting in heavy users, often temporarily alleviated by hot showers, can lead to severe health issues (05:26).

Broader Health Concerns (06:58 - 08:53)
Additional health risks include:

• Cardiovascular Issues: Increased risk of stroke and heart disease.
• Mental Health Impact on Youth: Elevated chances of depression, suicidal thoughts, and even psychotic disorders in adolescents (06:58).
• Lack of Regulation: Inconsistent state laws lead to variability in product safety and potency, exacerbating health risks (08:23).

Expert Insights: Sean questions the extent of addiction, to which Maren confirms, "Contrary to popular belief, it can be habit forming for some people" (04:54).

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4. Legal Landscape: Federal vs. State Regulations in the U.S.

Patchwork of Laws (08:53 - 10:21)
Maren explains that marijuana remains a Schedule I drug federally, despite legalization in many states. This discrepancy hinders:

• Research Efforts: Federal restrictions make it challenging to study marijuana's effects comprehensively.
• Consumer Safety: Variability in state regulations leads to inconsistent labeling and potency information, putting consumers at risk (08:23).

Regulatory Challenges:

• Potency Increase: THC levels have tripled from 5% to 16% over 25 years, making current products significantly stronger than those in the past (10:55).
• Public Health Response: The U.S. lacks a unified public health strategy to address the rise in marijuana use and its associated harms (10:51).

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5. Canada's Federal Legalization: A Comparative Study

Overview of Canada's Approach (15:36 - 17:05)
Dr. James McKillop discusses Canada's federal legalization of cannabis, which began six years prior to the episode and includes medical use since 2001. The main goals were:

1. Reduce Youth Access
2. Create a Legal Framework for Adults
3. Alleviate Criminal Justice Burdens (15:54).

Outcomes of Legalization:

• Youth Consumption: Contrary to fears, there hasn't been a sharp increase in teenage use, stabilizing at high levels without exponential growth (16:25).
• Adult Usage: Cannabis use among adults, especially those in their twenties, has surged, with usage rates nearing 50% in the past year (17:05).
• Criminal Justice Impact: Significant reduction in arrests related to cannabis possession, contributing to a more robust legal cannabis market (16:55).

Economic Impacts:

• Market Saturation: Initial economic boom followed by saturation, leading to the closure of many cannabis shops (21:12).
• Stock Market Volatility: Pre-legalization stock enthusiasm waned post-legalization due to market saturation (21:12).

Health and Social Concerns:

• Healthcare Strain: Increased cases of CHS, impaired driving incidents, and higher rates of cannabis consumption among pregnant women monitor rising healthcare burdens (19:12).
• Advertising Issues: Proliferation of cannabis stores acts as indirect advertising, impacting societal norms and potentially influencing youth behavior (21:04).

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6. Lessons from Canada's Experience and Future Implications

Provincial Variations and Best Practices (22:16 - 23:04)
Quebec stands out with stricter regulations:

• Higher Age Restriction: Access age set at 21 instead of 19.
• Product Restrictions: Edibles resemble vegetables to prevent appeal to children.
• Provincial Monopolies: Controlled distribution channels limit store proliferation and enhance consumer safety (22:41).

Recommendations: Dr. McKillop suggests adopting Quebec's stringent public health model as a potential blueprint for effective cannabis regulation, mitigating some of the adverse effects observed in broader Canadian legalization (22:28).

Call to Action for U.S. Listeners (24:56 - 25:44)
Dr. McKillop encourages Americans to consider "taking a month off from weed," especially frequent users, to assess their dependency and overall relationship with cannabis. This aligns with common New Year resolutions like "dry January" (24:56).

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7. Conclusion and Forward Look

Sean wraps up the episode by highlighting the ongoing experiment with marijuana legalization in the U.S. and Canada's contrasting federal approach. He underscores the complexity of balancing economic benefits with public health concerns and the necessity for consistent regulations to ensure consumer safety.

Notable Closing Quote: "It is a brave new world with regard to marijuana legalization in this country... It probably is harmless for a huge number and helpful even for a huge number of people out there. But it doesn't mean that it's perfectly safe and harmless for everyone" (11:17).

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Key Takeaways:

• Marijuana Use Trends: Significant rise in daily usage in the U.S., overtaking alcohol in daily consumption.
• Health Risks: Potential for addiction, CHS, and mental health issues, especially among youth.
• Regulatory Challenges: Inconsistent state laws hamper research and consumer safety.
• Canada's Model: Offers insights into effective regulation, balancing economic benefits with public health safeguards.
• Future Directions: Emphasis on adopting stringent, health-focused policies and encouraging personal responsibility among consumers.

For More Information: Maren Kogan's detailed article, "How Weed Won Over America", offers an in-depth exploration of the topics discussed in this episode.

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Produced by:
Abhishai Artsy, edited by Amina Al Saadi, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, mixed by Andrea Christensdotter and Patrick Boyd.

Support: Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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This summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from the "Canadian Bakin’" episode of "Today, Explained," providing a comprehensive overview for listeners seeking to understand the evolving landscape of marijuana legalization and its implications.

Transcript

[Sean Ramis]

It's a new year. Maybe you're taking a month off from drinking, you know, dry January, and maybe you're replacing it with something else.

[Maren Kogan]

Puff, puff, pass.

[Sean Ramis]

Something like one in five people who do dry January say they're smoking weed instead. And more Americans are now smoking weed daily than drinking daily. Current president is into it.

[Maren Kogan]

No one should be in jail merely for using or possessing marijuana. Period.

[Sean Ramis]

Future president is into it.

[Dr. James McKillop]

I've had friends and I've had others.

[Sean Ramis]

And doctors telling me that it's been absolutely, absolutely amazing. The medical marijuana failed. President and former prosecutor was down to clown.

[Maren Kogan]

People shouldn't have to go to jail for smoking weed.

[Sean Ramis]

Even health conscious brain worm guy likes it.

[Maren Kogan]

My position on marijuana is that it should be federally legalized.

[Sean Ramis]

Everyone's getting down with pot, but legislatively, we're still stuck with a hot mess in the United States. We're gonna see what we can do about that on Today Explained.

[Maren Kogan]

This isn't your grandpa's finance podcast. It's Vivian Tu, your rich BFF and host of the Net Worth and Chill podcast. This is money talk that's actually fun, actually relatable, and will actually make you money. I'm breaking down investments, side hustles and wealth strategies. No boring spreadsheets, just real talk that'll have you leveling up your financial game with amazing guests like Glenda Baker. There's never been any house that I've sold in the last 32 years that's not worth more today than it was the day that I sold it. This is a money podcast that you'll actually want to listen to. Follow Net Worth and Chill. Wherever you listen to podcasts, your bank account will thank you later. At Criminal, we've made it a tradition every December to dedicate an episode entirely to animals who are really going for it. Matt Fridgevel, police.

[Dr. James McKillop]

Hi, yes, I'm walking from the A'illyria.

[Sean Ramis]

Train station to my house in North.

[Maren Kogan]

Lidsville, and a random pig just came.

[Sean Ramis]

Up and started following me.

[Maren Kogan]

A pig, you said?

[Dr. James McKillop]

Yes.

[Maren Kogan]

I'm Phoebe Judge.

[Sean Ramis]

Listen to this story and more on Criminal.

[Maren Kogan]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. James McKillop]

You'Re listening.

[Sean Ramis]

To today, explained Maren Kogan, senior correspondent at vox. What's up with weed right now?

[Maren Kogan]

So researchers found in 2022, for the first time, more Americans were using marijuana every day or nearly every day than consuming alcohol at the same rate.

[Sean Ramis]

More Americans are doing daily weed than daily booze.

[Maren Kogan]

Yeah, it's a huge phenomenon, and if you think about it, the numbers are something like 17.7 million Americans say that they're getting a little high or smoking a little weed. Daily or near daily. That's not nothing. That's like 5% of the American public.

[Sean Ramis]

So I smoke marijuana sometimes a lot, every day.

[Dr. James McKillop]

And I'll tell you, I smoke weed all day. So I would. Yeah, I would imagine it would be worse if I didn't.

[Maren Kogan]

How much do you smoke a day?

[Dr. James McKillop]

Probably an ounce.

[Maren Kogan]

Like a cool shit.

[Sean Ramis]

Jesus.

[Dr. James McKillop]

We burn in the cool ounce.

[Maren Kogan]

This is all based on survey data. It's self reported use. So are these people taking a little hit of a vape pen before they go to bed to deal with insomnia?

[Sean Ramis]

Brb. About to escape and enter my magical fantasy world.

[Maren Kogan]

It just calms me down. I'm able to sleep comfortably and I stay asleep. It's much easier and much more pleasant the whole experience. Because when you do sleep, you sleep like a log. I sleep really well. Are they people who wake and bake? You thinking what I'm thinking? Wake and bake. Lets go.

[Dr. James McKillop]

Good morning to all the wake and bakers.

[Maren Kogan]

It's time to wake and bake. Are they people who are basically getting a little high before they go to class, before they go to their jobs?

[Dr. James McKillop]

Getting lit before work?

[Maren Kogan]

Guys. Cheers. It's called self care. Look it up. So I'm on my way to school and I gotta smoke. I gotta smoke before school. We don't know how many times a day those people are using. We also don't know the potency of what they're using. So there's a huge range and variation. What we do know is that the market right now for marijuana and the number of sales are really going towards customers who are using very heavily. So we're talking multiple times a day. What we don't know exactly is what that means for personal or for public health. So essentially Americans are conducting this real time experiment on their own bodies.

[Sean Ramis]

Are people getting addicted to weed? Can you get addicted to weed?

[Maren Kogan]

Yeah. So contrary to popular belief, it can be habit forming for some people. It can increase risk of dependence on other substances. And a recent analysis by Columbia University researchers found that as many as 18 million people in the US might have some form of cannabis use disorder, in other words, addiction. So it's simply not true that it's completely harmless for everyone.

[Sean Ramis]

Tell me more. What do we know about the harms? Especially as we undergo this massive nationwide experiment and see more people smoking weed every day.

[Maren Kogan]

So one really good example of this is cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome.

[Sean Ramis]

Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome.

[Maren Kogan]

It's a really fancy term for people who have used a lot of marijuana, heavy amounts, over a long period of time, who begin throwing up really violently and are sort of unable to stop these cycles of nausea and vomiting. Doctors and hospitals across the country are seeing people come in with cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. And it can be really, really bad. Crazy stomach pains and migraines and nausea and diarrhea and all this other stuff.

[Sean Ramis]

I was losing weight, I was getting nauseous. I wasn't throwing up, but I was getting the joint pain. I really couldn't work out anymore without massive amounts of discomfort.

[Maren Kogan]

If you're having crazy vomiting and nausea episodes and you smoke weed and nothing helps you except for laying in a very hot shower, you likely have chs. I'm not a doctor, I'm saying likely. You likely have chs. There have been all sorts of horror stories of people who have burned themselves because one of the few things that makes people with this syndrome feel better is heat. So they'll take hot baths repeatedly. And yeah, people have actually burned themselves trying to get relief from the nausea they feel because they've been smoking so much weed.

[Sean Ramis]

Is cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome the only negative health impact we're seeing amongst people who are smoking more weed?

[Maren Kogan]

No. So high levels of consumption is being associated with higher risk of stroke, cardiovascular disease. But the real issue here, and I think the real concern that a number of researchers have, is what regular marijuana use is doing to teens. There is particular concern about what regular heavy marijuana use does to adolescent and teen brains. So there have been studies that have shown an increased likelihood of depression and suicidal ideation associated with heavy marijuana use. In a few cases, it has been associated with the development of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders among young people. Studies have also shown disruptions in the anatomy of a developing brain. And teens often have, and honestly, adult consumers too often have really no idea what they're consuming and how safe it is.

[Sean Ramis]

A big issue is a lot of.

[Maren Kogan]

People don't know dosing, so they tend to over consume and then they have a very bad experience. Last time that I called myself taking an edible, I legit called the ambulance cuz I thought I was having a heart attack. Once those edibles kicked in, my whole entire soul left my body. And I'm not being dramatic, I literally disassociated. I was talking to the refrigerator, bawling my eyes out, throwing up.

[Sean Ramis]

Why don't we know more about what we're consuming and how safe it is?

[Maren Kogan]

A lot of it is because every state is sort of running their own experiment with marijuana legalization. So different states have different laws, they have different requirements for what sort of health or safety inspections things have to go through. And then the other thing is just that the market is evolving so fast, and customers are sort of rushing in to buy new products, and they don't necessarily themselves know what's in the product. And it's confusing for the consumers. It's confusing for the researchers, too. The regulations basically have not caught up to where the market is evolving.

[Sean Ramis]

Poor k. No.

[Maren Kogan]

One of the big reasons is that the federal government has basically allowed the states to liberalize their marijuana laws. So decriminalizing or legalizing in different cases. Today, marijuana is legal for medical use in 38 states and recreational use in roughly half of all states. States, plus the District of Columbia. But it's still kept marijuana as illegal on a federal level as a Schedule 1 drug. So the government doesn't recognize it for medical use. And that's made getting safety approvals and government funding necessary to study the drug really difficult. So essentially, researchers say it's like they've been handcuffed all these years. Right. And the handcuffs are just sort of coming off.

[Dr. James McKillop]

Should we use it in place of an opioid? Should we use it in the place of another pain medication? Where and how should it fit into medicine?

[Sean Ramis]

We don't know.

[Maren Kogan]

So now you'll see these scientists emerging in this natural health field, really opening up the field so that they can evaluate the therapeutic effects which patients already know that cannabis has. Meanwhile, all these states have legalized marijuana, and they're trying to figure out now how do we establish a public health response to make sure people are aware of what they're taking as consumers, aware of what they're putting in their bodies, similar to what we have around, say, cigarettes or alcohol.

[Sean Ramis]

Okay, and has there been success on that front? Is there consistency in what people are getting across this country, or at least consistency in the labeling of what people are getting across this country?

[Maren Kogan]

Oh, no, absolutely not. Certain states have better, I think, testing and safety standards than others. But no, I mean, essentially it's on you to sort of be an expert both about, like, reading labels and figuring out what it is exactly you're taking, and then also figure out what amount works for your body. I mean, and it seems like there is is really wide variations. The problem is that, you know, people don't always know their own limits. They don't always know what they're taking. And there can be real health consequences as a result.

[Sean Ramis]

Not to mention, this stuff's just generally a lot stronger than it used to be, right?

[Maren Kogan]

Yeah. So the products out there are a lot stronger than the sort of dime bags that were floating around, you know, in the early 2000s. Over the last 25 years, the government has been testing the percentage of THC and marijuana seized by the Drug Enforcement Agency, and they have seen that the percentage of THC has more than tripled in those samples, from 5 to 16%.

[Sean Ramis]

This sounds all very messy, Marin, as we enter a new year and approach this country with this potent drug that a whole lot of people love to take, that increasingly people are taking every day with this patchwork of laws and a whole, you know, inconsistent patchwork of regulations. Is anyone having buyer's remorse on all the legalization we've done?

[Maren Kogan]

Definitely. There are some people who argue that legalization was a mistake. As they point to these health consequences that I've been noting. They say that it hasn't really had the sort of positive impact on racial disparity in the criminal justice system that they expected it to. And they point out that, yeah, essentially this is creating a new public health problem that researchers just really have not had the time or ability to get a handle on before so many people started consuming marijuana. It is unfortunate that it's on the consumers to kind of figure out what is going into their bodies and whether or not it's good for them. But that is the reality of where we're at right now. It is a brave new world with regard to marijuana legalization in this country. It is probably harmless for a huge number and helpful even for a huge number of people out there. But it doesn't mean that it's perfectly safe and harmless for everyone. And I think people are going to have to, while the government sort of figures out a public health response to this, they're going to have to really think about themselves and make sure that they feel healthy with what they use.

[Sean Ramis]

Maren Kogan, you can read her joint on [e-mail], it's called how Weed Won Over America. I'm Sean Ramis. From next up on TODAY explained as we so often do, we're heading to Canada to find out if we can learn anything from our neighbors to the north who didn't just legalize state by state or province by province. In their case, they legalized federally. Support for TODAY explained comes from Shopify as it has before, as it does again. 2025 New Year, New opportunities. Shopify says maybe this is the year, you finally start that business, that one you've been dreaming of since you were a kid. But every time you thought of it, you got overwhelmed with questions. How do I come up with a brand? You said to yourself, how do I sell stuff to people? You wondered and wait, what am I even going to sell? Well, that last one, you're on your own, says Shopify. But for the rest, they want to help you. Shopify says they make it simple to create your brand, get it open for business and get your first sale. The best time to start your business could be right now. Established in 2025. Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? You can sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.comexplained. you can go to shopify.comexplained to start selling with Shopify today. Shopify.comexplained why do so many of us get happiness wrong and how can we start to get it right? I mean, I think we assume that happiness is about positive emotion on all the time, right? Often very high arousal, positive emotion. But that's not really what we're talking about. I'm Preet Bharara, and this week Dr. Laurie Santos joins me on my podcast, Stay Tuned with Preet to discuss the science behind happiness. We explore job crafting, the parenting paradox, the arrival fallacy, and why acts of kindness might be the simplest path to fulfillment. The episode is out now. Search and follow Stay Tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts. James McKillop sits in the Peter Boris Chair in addictions research at McMaster University and St. Joseph's Healthcare in Hamilton, Ontario. But he's also from the United States, so he was the ideal doc to ask, what's up with legal weed in Canada compared to America? We started with weeds legal status north of the border.

[Dr. James McKillop]

Well, cannabis has been legal now federally for just over six years. And even before that, cannabis was legal for medical purposes since 2001. So it's been legal in one form or another for nearly 25 years.

[Sean Ramis]

And why did Canada legalize weed fully?

[Dr. James McKillop]

So fundamentally, the approach was to apply a public health strategy to cannabis and in particular to try to reduce harms and maximize benefits. The three big goals were to reduce youth access, to create a legal framework for adults to access cannabis, and to reduce burden on the criminal justice system.

[Sean Ramis]

Okay, so how are we doing on those three goals to reduce youth access, increase adult access, and reduce burdens on the criminal justice system six years into this experiment?

[Dr. James McKillop]

Well, the good news is we haven't seen a sharp increase in youth Consumption, which was a fear that a lot of people had. And although we haven't seen big decreases, it does seem like there haven't been those feared increases. There have also been some other consequences that are not so positive. But the other things that are good include certainly many fewer arrests for cannabis and a fully realized large economic cannabis sector now.

[Sean Ramis]

Okay, so we did reduce burdens on the criminal justice. We didn't necessarily increase youth access. I assume adults are smoking more.

[Dr. James McKillop]

That is the case. So right now, the rates of cannabis use in Canada are certainly at all time highs. Some of that happened before legalization, but that's a trend that hasn't gone away. And especially if you look at not youth like teenagers, but young adults in their twenties, the rates are close to half in terms of folks reporting any use in the last year. So the overall rates of cannabis use are certainly high.

[Sean Ramis]

Where does that put Canada in terms of, I don't know, world rankings of pot smokers?

[Dr. James McKillop]

Well, historically, cannabis Canada, no pun intended, Canada lagged the U.S. only in terms of overall rates. I think that actually the rate may be higher than the US now, although it depends on the survey that you look at.

[Sean Ramis]

Okay.

[Dr. James McKillop]

But certainly it is near the top, if not at the top globally.

[Sean Ramis]

Wow. So Canadians are smoking a ton of weed and it sounds like you think that's not a good thing.

[Dr. James McKillop]

Well, I think that it's a complicated picture six years in. So as I said, some of the good things are it's a real economic marketplace. There's a lot of sales. The illegal market has been substantially displaced. But there have been some downsides too. I think the overall high rate of use is not great. But the other reality is a lot of people concerned about how many storefronts we have. There's a cannabis shop on every corner, it feels like. And there are concerns about burdens on the healthcare system too. Worrying upticks in terms of the number of individuals going to emergency departments or urgent care centers, the number of individuals who are experiencing cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome, that very unusual syndrome of acute nausea and vomiting that takes place in people who use cannabis frequently. There are increases in pregnant women who are seeking care for cannabis and increases in the proportion of impaired drivers who are testing positive for cannabis. So those are all kind of canaries in the coal mine for some pretty troubling trends.

[Sean Ramis]

How do the medical concerns compare to those with alcohol? And are we seeing fewer alcohol related hospitalizations or driving infractions as a result?

[Dr. James McKillop]

That's a great question. So I think that alcohol is in some ways the best comparator drug. And the reality is, alcohol, despite being legal, has lots of harms. And those range from acute harms like driving while intoxicated and physical and sexual assaults to chronic harms like cancer.

[Sean Ramis]

The US Surgeon General this morning is calling for new warnings on alcohol products. In a statement in the last few hours, the Surgeon General said alcoholic beverages are a leading cause of cancer and should carry labels similar to those you find on cigarettes.

[Maren Kogan]

Light to moderate drinking was associated with.

[Sean Ramis]

Reductions in overall brain volume. There's a really complicated and important relationship between alcohol and things like depression and anxiety in particular.

[Dr. James McKillop]

And in a lot of ways, cannabis has a somewhat more favorable profile, Although we don't have a great sense for whether the increase in cannabis use and the increase in cannabis sales, legal sales, has offset some of the harms from alcohol. What I can tell you is that if you look nationally, the alcohol retail sales have not changed all that dramatically. So Canadians spend about $2 billion a month on Alcoh, and that has been very stable from prior to legalization to the current date. Along that same time period, there has been a skyrocketing sales of legal cannabis. And so it seems like what's happening is the legal cannabis market is displacing the illegal market, but it's not really changing the amount of drinking all that much, which probably suggests that the amount of benefits in terms of reducing alcohol harms are going to be limited.

[Sean Ramis]

You mentioned that there's a pot shop on every corner. It seems like in Canada these days. Are you seeing an economic boom?

[Dr. James McKillop]

There have been aspects of the cannabis economy that have been boom like, but also bust. Like, the reality is the stocks for a lot of the producers prior to legalization were sky high. And those stocks unfortunately dropped in value after legalization. When things recalibrated a bit, a lot of the pot shops open and then unfortunately closed because it turns out the markets are already somewhat saturated. And there are some pretty insidious aspects of this, too, because when you have cannabis shops on every corner, even though advertising is prohibited, that becomes a form of advertising. So I have young kids, and they see cannabis stores all over the place, sometimes two or three in a given strip mall. And the other thing is, I've heard from my patients that when they're trying to quit or even reduce, having cannabis stores everywhere is a real challenge. And so I think that even though there are some economic benefits, we are right now reckoning with some of the harms.

[Sean Ramis]

Also, has someone done this better than Canada? I mean, do you guys look at the Netherlands and say, you know, oh, they had a great model. Is there a good example of how to legalize marijuana out there?

[Dr. James McKillop]

I'll tell you, Sean, what I think is the best model, and I think that Canada has done, on balance, a good job, but maybe not a great job. And where I see the best implementation is actually in Quebec.

[Sean Ramis]

Also Canada.

[Dr. James McKillop]

Also Canada. So one of the things that's interesting about Canada is that cannabis is federally legal, but it is implemented by the provinces. So there are slightly different models across the provinces and territories, and there are some interesting natural experiments that are happening as a result. And as you probably know, Quebec often marches to the beat of a different drum compared to other provinces in Canada.

[Sean Ramis]

And they speak a whole different language.

[Dr. James McKillop]

They speak French. And there are many great qualities about Quebec, but in this case, they are probably the most different from the other provinces and territories because they have a higher age of access, 21 rather than 19. They prohibit any edibles that look like candy to keep them out of the hands of children. So you can get cannabis cauliflower or cannabis broccoli or beets, because you can't get cannabis chocolate. They have a provincial monopoly, which means you can only buy cannabis from stores that are administered by the province, which means you can control how many stores you have, and you can have really rigorous ways of making sure that kids or teenagers are not coming in and buying cannabis, because they're similar to, for example, the ABC store in North Carolina or other state monopolies around alcohol. So in many ways, Quebec has implemented a more stringent public health model, and we've actually seen in studies, not from my group, but from other groups, that some of the harms that are observed in Canada are not present when you look specifically at Quebec. So if there was a model, I would recommend, it's probably that one.

[Sean Ramis]

You know, let me close by asking you this, James. It's a new year. People are thinking about who they want to be, how they want to change, what resolutions they're making and whatnot. For people who are smoking a lot of weed, considering taking up weed, considering quitting weed. As a medical professional who, yes, lives in Canada, but is actually from the United States, what would you say to your fellow Americans who are living in a state where this is now legal and who are certainly living in a country where their federal government isn't in a rush to solve this problem of the marijuana patchwork we have across the United States?

[Dr. James McKillop]

Well, Sean, given that it's January and a lot of people already consider dry January and abstaining from alcohol. I would absolutely encourage them to think about taking a month off from weed also, especially if they're frequent users. The reality is, as a psychologist, I see a lot of people who struggle with their cannabis use. It's the number one problem in our young adult substance use program. And taking a month off is a great way to kind of take stock of whether or not you have a problem. If it's easy, then you'll save some money. You might clean out the mental cobwebs. Your lungs will thank you. If it's hard, you may want to think about whether you need to talk to a health professional. And so to me, new year, new you. It's a great time to think hard about your relationship with pop.

[Sean Ramis]

Dr. James McKillop, McMaster University Go marauders. That's a good one. Abhishai Artsy made our show today. He was edited by Amina Al Saadi. Fact checked by Laura Bullard and mixed by Andrea Christensdotter and Patrick Boyd. This is TODAY Expl.