Today, Explained – “Conspiracy Theory Nation”

Podcast: Today, Explained (Vox)
Episode Date: February 26, 2026
Host: Estee Herndon
Guests: Dan Brooks (Freelance writer), Jesse Walker (Author, "The United States of Paranoia")

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the resurgence of conspiracy theories in American culture, particularly in response to the latest release of the Jeffrey Epstein files. It explores how conspiracy theories like Pizzagate and QAnon are being reanimated in public discourse, the societal reasons behind America's relationship with conspiracies, and the ways technology is amplifying these narratives. Estee Herndon speaks with writer Dan Brooks about the contemporary landscape and interviews Jesse Walker, who traces the history of conspiratorial thinking back to the founding of the United States.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Return of Pizzagate and Conspiracy Theories

• Epstein Files Trigger Old Conspiracies

  • The release of more Jeffrey Epstein documents led to public scrutiny of powerful figures and has unexpectedly reignited Pizzagate conspiracy theories from 2016 (02:18-02:41).
  • Dan Brooks:
    • Notes that "pizza" is referenced nearly 900 times in Epstein documents, far more than phrases directly pertaining to sex trafficking (02:41-03:15).
    • Describes how online communities speculate that "pizza" is code for illegal activities, drawing a direct line back to the Pizzagate mythos.

• Origins of Pizzagate

  • Jesse Walker:
    • Recaps the basics of the original Pizzagate conspiracy, which claimed the Clintons ran a child sex ring from a D.C. pizza parlor, fueled by misinterpretation of hacked emails (03:15-03:30).
  • Dan Brooks:
    • Explains that the conspiracy escalated to real-world violence when an armed man stormed Comet Ping Pong, ultimately proving the theory false but demonstrating the dangers of viral conspiracy thinking (04:15-05:10).

Interpreting the Epstein "Pizza" References

• Unpacking the Motif

  • Dan Brooks:

    • Details how references to “pizza and grape soda” recur in Epstein’s communications, especially with his urologist, sparking online speculation (05:18-06:09).
    • Offers a nuanced explanation that the simplest answer (Epstein and friends simply liked pizza and grape soda) is most likely correct, though some elements (such as repeated use of grape soda with certain emojis) are racially charged inside jokes rather than evidence of something sinister (06:20-07:25).

  • Estee Herndon:

    • Reflects on the use of racial tropes like the association between black people and grape soda, highlighting how niche stereotypes sometimes surface (07:08-07:25).

Media, Influence, and Spreading Conspiracies

• Media Figures Stoking the Flames

  • Estee Herndon:

    • Points to broadcaster Tucker Carlson suggesting that “maybe the long debunked conspiracy theory about Pizzagate wasn't actually debunked” after the Epstein files surfaced (07:36-07:54).

  • Dan Brooks:

    • Critiques Carlson’s credibility:
      • “He is a liar, and he attained his position by being wealthy and personally connected. I don't think Tucker Carlson is a reliable narrator...” (08:01).
    • Links the proliferation of conspiracies to independent media figures and influencers who, outside the boundaries of traditional journalistic ethics, may knowingly or recklessly spread misinformation to grow their audiences (08:43-09:58).

  • Notable Quote:

    • “You can do journalism in the absence of ethics, as long as you are willing to accept that you're going to say a lot of stuff that turns out not to be true.” – Dan Brooks (09:58)

• The Ambiguity of "Cover Ups"

  • Estee Herndon:
    • Raises concerns about the blurring line between speculation and conspiracy, e.g., the claims that “Epstein was a spy” or mass blackmail (09:58-10:32).
  • Dan Brooks:
    • Defines a “cover up” as requiring conscious intent and coordination, positing what’s more likely with the Epstein situation is a lot of uncoordinated, self-interested actions by implicated individuals, not a grand conspiracy (10:32-11:19).

Conspiracies as Cultural Metaphor

• Vampires and Elites
  • Dan Brooks:
    • Compares the Epstein saga to a “vampire story,” a metaphor for societal fears about predatory elites exempt from normal rules:
      • “In the same way that Dracula ... preys on peasants ... Epstein is a similarly robust metaphor for the role of elites in the United States in the 21st century.”
      • “Conspiracy theories ... reflect a legitimate concern about the kind of people Epstein knew – wealthy, politically connected and/or famous people who are commonly referred to as elites.” (11:19-13:25)

American Conspiratorial Culture: History and Evolution

Conspiracies, Then and Now

• Jesse Walker joins to chart the historical continuum of conspiracy thinking (17:35-18:02):

  • Claims that America has always had a “conspiratorial flavor” – the only thing that changes is the “flavor of the year” (18:02).
  • Notes the increasing mainstreaming of conspiracy rhetoric, especially post-Trump, as both political sides brandish the term against opponents (18:02-18:56).

• From Revolution to Present Day

  • Conspiratorial narratives existed at the founding of the country:
    • Even the Declaration of Independence references a “design” to bring about despotism, an inherently conspiratorial suspicion of British intentions (19:01-20:03).
  • The British, in turn, believed the French were secretly manipulating the American Revolution, and early American figures like John Quincy Adams were obsessed with freemasons and secret societies (20:14-20:48).

• Recurring Cycles of Fear

  • America has seen waves: the Illuminati scare (1790s), anti-Masonic movements (1830s), red scares and “brown scares,” reflecting constant anxieties about internal and external threats (20:50-22:21).

Conspiracies Impacting Policy

• Jesse Walker:

  • Laws such as the Alien and Sedition Acts (1798) were direct products of conspiratorial thinking, with elements still on the books influencing policies centuries later (22:33-24:41).
  • Example of recent uses of these laws (by Stephen Miller during immigration crackdowns) as a direct throughline from 18th-century paranoia to present politics (23:56-24:41).

• Reframing Modern Events as Conspiracy

  • Asserts that official narratives (e.g., Iraq WMDs, Saddam–al-Qaeda connections) can be seen as conspiracy theories, some true, some false, but all with major consequences (24:41-25:47).

Modern Technological and Social Shifts

• Social Media's Role
  • Walker argues that current technology has not fundamentally created new conspiratorial thinking, but made divergent “realities” more visible and in conflict (25:47-27:29).
  • Rejects the common complaint that we’re more fragmented than ever; instead, “our bubbles keep crashing into each other and splattering onto each other,” revealing the long-standing diversity of American viewpoints (27:29).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Brooks on conspiracy influence:

  • “Isn’t it weird having your suspicions proven right with the Epstein files?” (00:38)

• Estee Herndon highlighting history:

  • “Yeah, early Illuminati vibes.” (20:48)

• Jesse Walker's perspective:

  • “It’s always a conspiratorial time in the United States. It’s just a matter of what the flavor of the year is.” (18:02)

• Dan Brooks on the limits of conspiracy:

  • “I believe that the Epstein story is like a vampire story… Epstein is a similarly robust metaphor for the role of elites in the United States in the 21st century.” (11:19-13:25)

Important Timestamps

• 02:18 – Introduction of the “pizza” references in the Epstein files
• 03:15 – Recap of Pizzagate’s story and how the conspiracy took off
• 04:29 – Real-life Comet Ping Pong incident as the “refutation” of Pizzagate
• 05:18 – Dissecting the meaning behind Epstein’s “pizza and grape soda” conversations
• 07:36 – Tucker Carlson comments on Pizzagate being “not actually debunked”
• 08:43 – Growth of conspiracy culture via internet influencers
• 10:32 – The line between cover-up and individual survival tactics
• 11:19 – Epstein as metaphor for elite predation; Dracula analogy
• 17:35 – Jesse Walker on conspiracies as a fixture in American history
• 18:02 – Shifting from fringe to mainstream conspiracy theory adoption
• 20:14 – Historical roots: Declaration of Independence, Illuminati scare
• 22:33 – Alien and Sedition Acts as a legacy of conspiracy fears
• 25:47 – Technology and social media’s effect: visible “different realities”
• 27:29 – The clashing of information bubbles in today’s America

Tone & Language

The discussion maintains Today, Explained’s signature informative and slightly irreverent tone. Guests speak candidly, sometimes humorously, but always with an eye toward the seriousness and historical complexity of conspiracy thinking in the U.S. The show navigates both the absurdities and the real-world impacts of conspiratorial beliefs, balancing skepticism with empathy for why these stories persist.

Summary Conclusion

“Conspiracy Theory Nation” explores how old conspiracies never die in America—they simply morph, reappear, and get propelled to new prominence with the aid of media, cultural anxieties, and technology. The episode urges listeners to see today’s conspiracy boom not as a modern aberration, but as a perennial feature of American political culture—rooted in deep historical patterns of suspicion, fear, and the narrative drive to make sense of the world.