Today, Explained – "Deported to a country you've never heard of"

Date: January 7, 2026
Host: Miles Bryan (filling in for regular hosts Sean Rameswaram and Noel King)
Main Guest: Jon Fasile, Senior Producer at Snap Judgment, and Micah Rosenberg, National Investigative Reporter, ProPublica

Episode Overview

This episode examines the Trump administration’s unprecedented strategy of deporting asylum seekers—not just to their countries of origin, but to third countries they’ve never even heard of, such as Eswatini, South Sudan, and Costa Rica. Through the experiences of German Smirnov, a Russian asylum seeker, and expert insights, the episode explores the legal, humanitarian, and political ramifications of what could be considered the end of the American asylum system as it was once known.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Case of German Smirnov: An Asylum Seeker’s Ordeal

[02:16 – 13:26]

• Background:

  • German Smirnov, a Russian fitness coach, became entangled in electoral fraud when asked to fill out ballots for Vladimir Putin.

    “They fraud on the elections, and I wanted to reveal it.” — German Smirnov [03:08]

  • He attempts to expose the fraud but is caught by authorities, flees Russia, and eventually seeks asylum in the US, traveling via Turkey and Mexico.

• Change of Administration, Change of Fate:

  • Upon arrival in Mexico, Smirnov waits eight months for a US asylum appointment. After Trump’s re-election, appointments are canceled [04:26–05:24].

    “When we came to the border…She told, ‘We’ve got new president. We don’t give political asylum anymore.’” — German Smirnov [05:24]

  • The family is detained at the border in harsh conditions for 31 days, then forcibly flown to Costa Rica.

    “I escaped one prison to get to another.” — German Smirnov [06:52]

• Life in Exile:

  • Held in a former pencil factory with other migrants, German describes stress, uncertainty, but slightly better conditions compared to US detention.

    “A lot of stress, a lot of worries, a lot of fighting with despair.” — German Smirnov [07:07] “My wife, she began to cry at the cafeteria … because she was tired of all of this situation.” — German Smirnov [07:33]

• Adapting to the Unknown:

  • Costa Rica grants temporary status, but German and his family feel lost, not knowing the language or culture.

    "We know nothing about this country. We don't know language. We don't know culture." — German Smirnov [13:04]

2. Legal Loopholes and the Reality of "Non-Punishment"

[07:59 – 09:47]

• The US classifies deportation as a civil, not criminal, process—bypassing many constitutional protections and enabling indefinite detention without legal counsel.

  “This idea of deportation as not being punishment is… the legal fiction underpinning all U.S. immigration enforcement.” — Jon Fasile [08:11]

• Distinction drawn between “detention centers” and “prisons” is largely semantic, with little difference in conditions.

3. Emotional & Social Impact

[10:14 – 13:16]

• Many deported migrants are left isolated, removed from networks and unable to properly integrate.

  “I worry about my wife. I just don’t want to be a failure for my family.” — German Smirnov [10:14] “But I never thought that I will be this faceless immigrant, too.” — German Smirnov [11:55]

• German reflects that the US government's demonization of immigrants is a deliberate political strategy.

  “You mostly speak about criminals. So immigrant is equal to criminals right now in the people’s mind, because that is image they create.” — German Smirnov [11:16]

4. Scale and Scope of Third Country Deportations

[12:03 – 13:26; 16:33 – 19:19]

• Over 8,000 people have been deported to countries that are not their own since January 2025, including high-profile cases to places like El Salvador, South Sudan, Ghana, Eswatini, and Panama.
• Example: 238 Venezuelan asylum seekers sent to a maximum-security prison in El Salvador—despite having no criminal records.

  “The government knew that the vast majority of these men had never been convicted of any crimes in the United States, but they were sort of rounded up and whisked away to this prison.” — Micah Rosenberg [18:14]

Expert Analysis with ProPublica’s Micah Rosenberg

[16:33 – 26:11]

5. The Policy Pivot: From Biden to Trump

[19:19 – 21:29]

• Under Biden:
  • Asylum seekers overwhelmed border stations, but many were released to pursue claims in immigration court.
  • The system was designed to help those fleeing persecution for narrow, specifically defined reasons.
• Under Trump 2.0:
  • Assumption that most claims are fraudulent led to near-total shutoff of asylum availability.
  • Legitimate applicants face the same barriers as everyone else.

6. The Migration Pipeline and How Word Spreads

[21:29 – 22:54]

• Migrant journeys affected by social media—WhatsApp groups, TikTok influencers, and online guides describing new asylum routes.
• People from all over the world (Africa, India, South America) take perilous routes, sometimes incurring massive debts, in hopes of U.S. asylum.

7. Near Collapse of Asylum Access

[23:01 – 23:27]

• Border crossings have dropped to record lows.
• Releases into the U.S. for asylum consideration have nearly halted.
• Protection for legitimate asylum seekers has been decimated.

8. Whiplash Policy and Legislative Paralysis

[23:27 – 25:29]

• American asylum policy is now dictated by executive order—creating huge swings with each change in administration.

• Congressional inaction on immigration reform means presidents rule by executive fiat, making the system unstable and unpredictable.

  “Each president that comes in basically makes immigration policy through fiat and executive actions… this is something that would take real, meaningful bipartisan action.” — Micah Rosenberg [23:58]

• The wave of anti-immigrant policies is mirrored in other countries (Canada, France), with the US now setting a harsher example.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the emotional toll of the process:

  “Yesterday, it was a very complicated day. My wife, she began to cry at the cafeteria during the eat because she was tired of all of this situation.” — German Smirnov [07:33]

• On the policy fiction:

  “This idea of deportation as not being punishment is… the legal fiction underpinning all U.S. immigration enforcement.” — Jon Fasile [08:11]

• On the shifting image of immigrants:

  “Immigrant is equal to criminals right now in the people’s mind, because that is image they create.” — German Smirnov [11:16]

• On being faceless:

  “But I never thought that I will be this faceless immigrant, too.” — German Smirnov [11:55]

Key Timestamps

• 02:16 – Introduction of German Smirnov's story
• 04:26 – Asylum appointment canceled following Trump's re-election
• 05:24 – US border turn-back and detention begins
• 06:31 – Deportation to Costa Rica
• 07:59 – Legal loopholes and lack of constitutional protections
• 10:14 – Post-detention fate, emotional fallout
• 12:03 – The scale of third country deportations
• 16:33 – Interview with Micah Rosenberg/ProPublica
• 18:00 – Venezuelan deportees in El Salvador
• 19:19 – Comparison: Biden vs Trump asylum policies
• 21:29 – The migration journey’s digital facilitators
• 23:01 – The collapse of asylum access
• 23:27 – Legislative inaction and global ripple effects

Conclusion

This episode exposes the devastating personal and political impact of America's new approach to asylum. Through the lens of German Smirnov, it lays bare the bureaucratic, emotional, and existential hardships now faced by thousands—forced not just from the country they fled, but deposited into international limbo, often with no connection or resources in their new host country. The episode is a clear-eyed, deeply reported account of a historic pivot in US immigration strategy and the lives left unmoored in its wake.