DIY or don’t?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "DIY or Don’t?"

Podcast: Today, Explained (Vox)
Date: June 7, 2026
Host: Jonquillen Hill
Featured Guests: Pam Pybus (home improvement expert), Vladimir Sirdock (NYC handyman/instructor), Imani Keel (DIY renter & influencer)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Today, Explained explores the rise of DIY (Do It Yourself) home improvement culture. Host Jonquillen Hill investigates why so many people—including renters—are tackling home projects themselves, what skills you actually need to maintain your space, where to draw the line between DIY and hiring professionals, and the sense of satisfaction and community these efforts can build. Three main voices—Pam Pybus, Vladimir Sirdock, and Imani Keel—share their insights, tips, and personal stories, making it accessible for aspiring DIY-ers of any skill level.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Generational & Economic Shifts in DIY

[03:33–05:51]

• Pam Pybus (licensed contractor & host of Fix It 101), notes older generations were more apt to hire professionals, while younger people increasingly opt for DIY.
• The internet and social media provide instant access to home repair knowledge, reducing barriers to entry.
• Economics drive this change: "If you're barely getting into a house, you want to learn how to take care of that house, for one thing... They can barely afford to get in the house, so they can't really call somebody in to fix the rotten wood. They're going to have to figure out how to do that themselves." (Pam, 04:52)

2. Learning by Doing: The Power and Pitfalls of Internet DIY

[05:51–07:59]

• Pam acknowledges the value of YouTube/online tutorials—even for experts: "The beautiful thing about social media is that there are a lot of ways to do the same thing. So why not take advantage of that and learn? And even if it's the wrong way, I'm still going to learn something." (Pam, 05:58)
• Caution: Safety is key. Structure (e.g., decks) and electrical work are best handled by professionals:
  • "If you're going to build a deck, get somebody there who knows how to build the structure... Another thing is electrical. Be very, very careful.... Wiring behind a wall that is old is susceptible to damage and can burn your house down." (Pam, 06:30–07:18)

3. Building Skills & Community

[08:09–09:30]

• Pam recommends starting with workshops (in-person or at big box stores) and learning from experienced friends. "A couple of years ago I built a deck with 25 women, just women, and I taught them how to use a miter saw and... a drill." (Pam, 08:09)
• Home repair becomes a communal, bonding activity: "Home maintenance is a community project... A pizza and a Coke or something and laughing. We had so much fun." (Pam, 08:59)

4. The Professional’s Take: Essential Skills & Mindset for Renters

[11:18–20:05]

• Vladimir Sirdock, NYC handyman (18,000+ apartments) and teacher, demystifies basic repairs:
  • Everyone should own a basic toolkit: screwdriver (flat & Phillips), channel lock pliers, a ‘five in one’ painter’s tool, a battery-powered drill, and a plunger. (14:44)
  • Essential tenant skills: Hanging curtains (just four screws), cleaning sink drains, shutting off water valves ("Water does a tremendous amount of damage." Vladimir, 15:25–16:13).
  • Microwaves, if more than 7 years old and faulty, are usually not worth repairing.
• On tackling electrical projects such as installing a dimmer, Vladimir stresses the value of proper tools (a simple $10 tester) and clear safety procedures.
  • "Electricity is nothing but black and white. That's literally the two wires that are inside the wall." (Vladimir, 18:11). But always test and turn off power first!
• He emphasizes the satisfaction and empowerment of DIY:
  • "It's rewarding. It's extremely rewarding to know that someone can do this on their own." (Vladimir, 19:20)
  • DIY also helps bridge the blue/white collar divide—non-trade professionals gain empathy for skilled labor. (19:20–20:05)

5. The DIY Renter: Express Yourself, But Know Your Limits

[22:10–29:27]

• Imani Keel, a D.C. renter and home project influencer, gives voice to creative, ambitious tenants:
  • Has built her own entertainment center, wallpapered hallways, installed floors, and more.
  • Tackled major issues, including a severe mice infestation that required full kitchen demo and rebuild. Imani negotiated with her landlord for a repair credit, then did the work herself:
    • "They weren't cool with that. Let me be very clear. They weren't. But if there is a significant mice problem and you are not addressing it, I am going to make it so that now we can't go back. We have to go forward." (Imani, 24:24)
  • She’s invested $30–35k over three years but sees it as worthwhile: "Number one, I live here, and I think that I deserve to have a beautiful space to live in... And number two, I was able to turn this into a career." (Imani, 25:26)
  • DIY is a hobby and a way of life: "Some people want to go to a run club... I want to learn how to use a circular saw and build furniture in my apartment." (Imani, 25:26)
• Hardest project? Plumbing. "Water is scary. Water sometimes does not act the way you think it's going to act... And the potential for damage that can come from water to me is a lot greater than other things." (Imani, 26:27)
• Knowing limits is crucial—Imani hires pros for tasks involving major plumbing or structural changes.

6. The Emotional Side: Memories and the Feeling of Home

[30:27]

• Listener shares a nostalgic memory of learning to change a light switch with their dad:
  • "We put it in upside down and it's been upside down for about 20 years now and it drives my mom crazy. But... it makes it feel a little bit more ours." (Listener, 30:27)
• The host and guests surface the deeper meaning of DIY—pride, memory, and the sense of truly living in your space.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pam Pybus on safety:

  "If you're going to do anything structural that's holding people and things up that you love, you need a professional. And then you could come in after that maybe and put the pretty on it." (06:52)

• Vladimir Sirdock on DIY in America:

  "Everybody around the world's handy except here. Ooh, it's true." (14:08)

• Imani Keel on investing in a rental:

  "I'm not going to sit in something that's ugly just because other people would be upset about how I spend my money." (25:26)

• Imani Keel on the impermanence of her work:

  "A lot of things that I put up in here can very easily be taken apart... and then moved into wherever I move next." (Imani, 28:24)

• Listener (closing anecdote):

  "Whenever I see it, I laugh and I think of that memory of learning how to change that with my dad and us working on our house together. And it makes it feel a little bit more ours." (30:27)

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Practical Takeaways

• Start small: Basic tools and skills (using a drill, hanging items, shutting off valves) are accessible to everyone.
• Use resources: Workshops, online videos, or learning from friends build confidence.
• Safety first: Structural and electrical projects often warrant calling a professional.
• Community counts: DIY can be fun and social—invite friends or neighbors to join.
• Know your limits (and landlord): Some tasks should be left to the pros, and renters may need permission or negotiation.
• Value the journey: Your DIY projects personalize your space and can create lasting memories.

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Major Timestamps

• Generations & DIY shift: 03:33–05:51
• Internet & learning DIY: 05:51–07:59
• Workshops & community: 08:09–09:30
• Pro handyman tips: 11:18–20:05
• Imani’s rental transformation: 22:10–29:27
• Listener memory: 30:27

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Transcript

[Jonquillen Hill]

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[Vladimir Sirdock]

Oh, what, did you watch a YouTube

[Caller/Listener]

video and then try it yourself? And he said, actually I did. That kind of gives me a purpose personally to be able to fix these things for our home.

[Pam Pybus]

So I opened up the front of

[Announcer/Advertiser]

the dryer and I used my hairdryer

[Pam Pybus]

on it and a week later it broke down.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

I love a home improvement video like you decided to install an entire Ikea kitchen by yourself and we're having to

[Announcer/Advertiser]

deal with 210 packages and we have

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

to put it all together ourself. You bought an abandoned house and now you're renovating it.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

There are holes in the ceilings. This is not the only one. But you know, I have faith that

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

I can fix this place up. You're building a tunnel under your home?

[Jonquillen Hill]

I cut a hole in my sub basement wall and started cutting into the rock under my house.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

That ambition is super impressive to me because I will absolutely call in reinforcements to change a light bulb. But it seem the Internet is telling me if you've got a screwdriver and a dream, you can get some real work done. I'm Jacqueline Hill. This is Explain it to Me from Vox. And today we're getting handy. But first I need a little advice from an actual expert.

[Pam Pybus]

Pam Pybus, host of Fix It 101 on MPB Think Radio here in Jackson, Mississippi. I have gotten phone calls from Korea. I guess they must be listening online. I don't understand all the technology. I just show up and they broadcast the show.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Okay, so how'd you get into home improvement?

[Pam Pybus]

Oh, girl, I grew up in it. Yeah, my daddy was a contractor, so we grew up renovating homes and building houses. And I grew up in the day where women definitely weren't doing this kind of thing. So getting into the industry was a bit of a challenge for me. I actually started doing home inspections because I was unemployed.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

Oh, wow.

[Imani Keel]

Yeah.

[Pam Pybus]

And my mother saw an article in the paper, and she's like, pammy, you could do that. Cause you grew up with that. So I went and took the test, and I went to the class and took the test and came back, and I thought, well, why don't I build a business around that?

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Yeah. I'm curious. You know, you have all these people calling to the show. You work with people in real life. You're a contractor and a home inspector. You see a lot of people and projects up close. Are people rolling up their sleeves more and trying to do it themselves these days, or are people trying to, like, leave it to the professionals?

[Pam Pybus]

I think the people in my generation and. And I am. I was born in 1962, so you do the math. I'll just go ahead and tell you. I'm 64. I think folks in my generation, we're kind of used to hiring somebody to come fix it. The problem has been sometimes who's the competent person to hire? And we have problems getting competent people to come in, but younger roll up their sleeves and do it themselves.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Pam Pybus]

Yeah.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Why do you think that is?

[Pam Pybus]

I think because they're seeing that they have permission to do that. Because when I started with my house, I've been in my home 30 years. I went out and bought a book to try to learn all the things about my house. Now you just Google it or you go on YouTube. Like, the other day, I was having problems with my toilet, so I just went online and figured out what the problem was and fixed it myself. Young people are more apt to ask those question and go to social media to try to figure out how to fix something themselves. And then if they get. If they paint themselves in a corner and they can't get it fixed, then they can call in 911 and get somebody to come over there and help

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

them out with it.

[Pam Pybus]

My experience has been with the younger people, they ask more questions, they're more inquisitive. And now these are the home buyers that I work with that are buying these little cabbage patch houses. And I think some of that's economics. It's exp. Expensive to hire somebody to come in. And if you're barely getting into a house, you want to learn how to take care of that house, for one thing. And That's. I'm real big on education. Let's teach them how to use the air conditioner. Let's teach them how to take care of the water heater. Let's teach them how to change the filters and to check under your counters to make sure that there's no water underneath there. And you end up with a problem that cost you a lot of money when. If you just maintained it a little bit at a time, you wouldn't have all those expenses. So I think some of it is more exposure from the Internet and some of it is just economics. They just can't. They can barely afford to get in the house, so they can't really call somebody in to fix the rotten wood. They're going to have to figure out how to do that themselves.

[Imani Keel]

Yeah.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

What do you think of people going on YouTube or TikTok or whatever app it is and learning to do home improvement stuff from there?

[Pam Pybus]

I do it and I've. I mean, I've been a licensed contractor for 22 years. My dad was a contractor. The beautiful thing about social media is that there are a lot of ways to do the same thing. So why not take advantage of that and learn? And even if it's the wrong way, I'm still going to learn something.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

As an inspector, are you finding more people sort of like doing unpermitted thing? Like, is it getting dangerous or are people good at staying on the safe side of things?

[Pam Pybus]

Yeah, a little bit of both. You know, I've gone into houses and I'm like, oh, pawpaw and a beer has been here today. They have done some things, and a lot of times, to be honest, a homeowner will do a better job than a contractor because they're going slower in taking their time. Some safety things to keep in mind. If you're going to build a deck, get somebody there who knows how to build the structure. Because deck failures are a big deal, and those are a lot of DIY projects. I draw the line on structure. If you're going to do anything structural that's holding people and things up that you love, you need a professional. And then you could come in after that maybe and put the pretty on it.

[Imani Keel]

But.

[Pam Pybus]

But those things can be dangerous. Another thing is electrical. Be very, very careful with your electrical stuff because you can do some damage to yourself. I was changing out an outlet in a bedroom and it started smoking and the wires did not look so good. So I stopped, stepped away from it and hired an electrician to come in to do that for me. Because wiring behind a wall that is old is susceptible to damage and can burn your house down. So those types of things, those safety issues, I would really suggest that we not be doing those types of things

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

if we want to close the skill set gap that we see with people trying to take on more DIY home projects. I'm curious where you think we should start.

[Pam Pybus]

Look for workshops. I know some of these big box stores will have those if you can do something hands on. And I will tell you this, I have people asking me all the time teach me how to use a power tool. So I will invite them over. A couple of years ago I built a deck with 25 women, just women, and I taught them how to use a miter saw and I taught them how to use a drill. Find people maybe in your life and ask them to show you how to do things. And specifically when it comes to power tools, there are so many things that you can do if you know how the proper way to use specific tools. Get a group of people together. Ask a contractor to do a workshop with you.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

It sounds like there's real community in this.

[Pam Pybus]

Yes, yes. I believe home maintenance is a community project that there's a way. And I love doing projects with people. If somebody wants to paint their house and they call me up, I'm like, I'm in. I'd love to come over because a pizza and a Coke or something and laughing. I did that when I moved into my house. I invited a bunch of people over and I said I will feed you if you help me paint my house. And and it was awesome. We had so much fun.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Coming up how to be your own handyman.

[Jonquillen Hill]

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[Pam Pybus]

So good, so good, so good.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

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[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

I'm Jonqulynn and this is Explain it to Me. Vladimir Sirdock knows his way an apartment as a handyman in New York City. He estimates he's seen as many as 18,000 of them.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

It would be anything from installing a television to fixing up dishwashers, fixing doors, hanging doors, adjusting cabinets, replacing doorknobs, fixing up holes, hanging curtains, picture hanging.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

And it was one such picture hanging job that almost broke him.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

There was a lady that asked me to hang about 47 different photos on one wall.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

47, 47.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

And she had a specific pattern of how she wanted this done. And I spent almost a whole day measuring and hanging. And she came and she was just like, oh, you're about like 2 inches off this way. And I had to take everything off. So that led to being like, I can't be moving 47 pictures every day. So that was kind of the moment that was about maybe three, four years ago where I started thinking about the class.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

He calls his class back to basics. And you need literally zero skills to sign up.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

We start out with a task right off the bat just to kind of see what everybody can do. The task was always screwing on a piece of sheetrock onto a two foot by two foot metal wall that I built. Right? And then we go into just trying to hang and all sorts of different things that are there, like toilet paper holder, handicap bar, a TV bracket. What you could do is you could turn the wall around so you could see how the anchors work on the inside to see why use a different anchor on different aspect or a different molle or toggle bolt or so forth. That's our first task. So if you could hang one thing, then you could do your curtains, you could do your television, and you could put shelves up. Everybody wants to learn how to put up a tv. If you could put a TV up, you could put everything else up.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Ooh, yeah. The idea of mounting my own tv, that's like, oh my gosh. Because that's definitely something I would call the professionals for you can do that so easily, really. Oh, my gosh.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

It's a matter of just simple practice and having someone there to make you comfortable.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

How did you initially learn the trades? Did you come from a handy family?

[Vladimir Sirdock]

So I grew up in what was. What was former Yugoslavia. So everybody's just handy, right? So we grew up on a farm. There wasn't any, like, TV time. You just help, you know, like, no matter how old you are, if you can hold something for your father or your uncle or neighbor, you hold that and you just watch and you slowly. The older you get, they give you more responsibility.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Does it feel like very different from sort of how people approach it here

[Vladimir Sirdock]

in the US Everybody around the world's handy except here. Ooh, it's true. It's true. You go to second or third world nations, everybody has to figure out ways, right? Here we have the luxury of paying someone in a trade for the most part. So there is a big difference. And also, technical schools are much more popular there, as opposed to here.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Say there's someone who doesn't know a hammer from a screwdriver, and they're like, okay, I need to put together my first toolbox. What are the essentials? What are some things every person should have at home?

[Vladimir Sirdock]

A really decent screwdriver. A screwdriver that can be a Phillips, could be a flathead. You need, I would say, at least two pair of. They're called channel locks. Just pair of pliers. Everybody should have what's called a five in one. A five in one is a little painter's tool. Right? So it's got five different options of things that you could do. You could scrape the wall a little bit. You could clean your brush with it. You could clean the roller with it. And everybody needs a drill. You need a drill. And not an electric one, a battery operated one, because electric drills are too strong and people end up. You can break your wrist on an electric one.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Oh, wow. Okay. What are some of the basic repairs that a tenant should know if they're in an apartment?

[Vladimir Sirdock]

I'll give you some of the experiences that I've had. I've had people call me that. Their curtains have fallen off in the middle of the night. If I could come and help them put up the curtains, I feel like that's something everybody should be able to do. It's a matter of putting in four screws into a wall to be able to have curtains and not bother your super. For such a simple, simple concept, I think clogged sinks, everybody needs a plunger. Everybody should own a plunger in their life. Learning how to shut off your own valves, Right? So God forbid there is a flood in your apartment just to know how to shut off. Like your toilet is overflowing. If you just shut the water off to it, your toilet stops overflowing. So you're not putting anybody in a panic because water does a tremendous amount of damage.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

How do you do that? How do you turn the water off? I realize that seems like a very basic question, but where do you go to do that?

[Vladimir Sirdock]

So if you look at your toilet, right, look either to the bottom left of your toilet or the bottom right of it. There's going to be a pipe and a little braided hose that goes up towards your tank. Oh, it's just a little round valve. Lefty loosey, righty tighty, right. So if you want to turn water off, you turn it to the right. If you want to turn the water on, you turn it to the left.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Okay. And then for the sink, say I have a clogged sink. What is my first step? Do I pull out the Drano? Do I get out a plunger? I assume I have a special sink plunger versus a toilet plunger.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

You could. Depends on your hygiene preference, I guess. But to eliminate any of those calls, just get a decent sink string. Sink strainers help a lot. They catch hair. So like, for instance, like a kitchen sink would need an inch and a half Sink strainer. A bathroom sink needs an inch and a quarter. It just uses different size plumbing. And tubs use like a 2 inch. Those help a lot.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Okay, let's say that my microwave is acting weird. It's on the older side, five years old. Do I call someone about it or do I just need to like fold and get a new microwave?

[Vladimir Sirdock]

You fold?

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

How do you know when to fold them?

[Vladimir Sirdock]

So a microwave is either going to work or it's not going to work. When a microwave burns out, it just doesn't work anymore. It would cost more money to to have someone come look at it than it would to buy a new one.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Oh yeah.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

Any appliance that's over seven years old and you think it's acting up, just don't get it repaired. Unless it's like a sub zero refrigerator.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

So let's say I want to install a dimmer switch for my lights. You know, I want to create some ambiance. But I am not an electrician. Is that something I need to call a handyman for or is it okay for me to do it myself? Can I tackle it myself?

[Vladimir Sirdock]

So electricity is nothing but black and white. That's literally the two wires that are inside the wall. You'll see a green wire, which is the ground. You should definitely be able to put a dimmer in yourself. All you have to do is if you have a little tester, right? A Tester is a $10 battery operated thing that you take. You turn it on, you touch a wire with it, and it will beep. If it beeps, it's live.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

Now, it's not going to tell you what's there for voltage, but it's going to tell you something is or isn't energized. So it tests the voltage from the outside that says it's hot.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

And it also will test an outlet. But again, you got to make sure you're in the hot side of the outlet. If you want to do your own dimmer, go to your panel, your circuit breakers, have someone hold that tester next to the switch that you currently have and keep switching it off. When it stops beeping, you can take it apart and you'll notice that on a switch, there's nothing but a black and white wire. And you just have to connect the dimmer wires to those wires. It's really simple. I know I say it's really simple, but like, once someone sees it the first time, they're like, that's it.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

What's it like seeing someone, seeing that light bulb go off for someone, seeing them be like, oh, wait, I can do this myself.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

It's rewarding. It's extremely rewarding to know that someone can do this on their own. I think it also bridges the gap between people that are of blue collar and people white collar. Right. Sometimes you walk into a house or an apartment and people are like, well, why is it so much money for you to do this? And I think showing people that don't work in a trade certain difficulties of why something takes a certain length could also bridge a gap of understanding each other. So bridging that gap a little bit also puts people at ease a little bit. When someone walks into your house and is saying like, well, this, this, this, this and this, and you're like, I don't know if that's true.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

So how do you go from knowing your way around a drill to fullon DIY expert? That's

[Jonquillen Hill]

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[Vladimir Sirdock]

Have We Underestimated the Damage Trump has Done?

[Pam Pybus]

It's easy perhaps to chuckle at a Donald Trump. There are times when he's sort of campy.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

I think there are things that he does, you know, his little dance and

[Pam Pybus]

some of the other kinds of things

[Announcer/Advertiser]

to come across as a rascal. But I think we have to look

[Pam Pybus]

under those things at the real harm

[Announcer/Advertiser]

he has done to American institutions and the rule of law.

[Vladimir Sirdock]

I'm Preet Bharara and this week former U.S. attorney Barb McQuaid joins me to discuss this administration's mob style, governance and corruption. The episode is out now. Search and Follow Stay tuned with Preet Wherever you get your podcasts,

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

I'm JQ back with more. Explain it to me. Have you ever seen someone's apartment and thought, wow, you really made this your home? That's the vibe you get when you see Imani Keel's D.C. apartment. She's got gorgeous wallpaper, incredible shelving, intricate light fixtures and mirrors that are placed just so. What's even more impressive is that she did almost all of it herself.

[Imani Keel]

So I built an entertainment system in my living room out of literally I took it from about five or six sheets of plywood to a beautiful I love you so much piece that is like the anchor of my space. I did this wallpaper right here. This is about a 30 foot hallway and I wallpapered the entire thing. I have painted every room. I installed new like peel and stick floor tiles in the kitchen for most of the things in here. If it is required to be built, I built it.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

I do everything.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

This isn't just Imani's home. It's also how she makes a living. She posts about her renos on social media.

[Imani Keel]

I have started working on the final room in my apartment, which is the living room. Real, live, quick and dirty update on my kitchen. I'm starting to put that together today.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

That kitchen is my favorite. It's the kind of space where you would love to serve your friends a meal. She installed the cabinets herself and painted them this super rich red color.

[Imani Keel]

That kitchen was so ugly when I got here. Basically what happened was there was a mouse. And, you know, when there was one mouse, there's mice. And there was a colony of mice living in the wall behind my kitchen. And because there was a little teeny tiny hole, they were able to come through there and play hopscotch in my kitchen. And I wasn't having that anymore. My best friend and I, one day we may or may not allegedly took a like, dremel and like, carved out where we thought they were coming from and then pulled all the cabinets off of the wall to then confirm where they were coming from and then eventually ripped out the entire kitchen.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

How is your landlord cool with this?

[Imani Keel]

They weren't cool with that. Let me be very clear. They weren't. But if there is a significant mice problem and you are not addressing it, I am going to make it so that now we can't go back. We have to go forward. So it became a situation where they were like, okay, we'll give you a credit to fix the problem and then you can fix it yourself. And I said, fine. And they rebuilt the floors and rebuilt the wall, and then I came in and purchased the cabinetry, painted it, purchased the fridge, put everything back on the wall and made it look how it looks today.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

You've invested a good amount of your own money into your apartment. How much?

[Imani Keel]

Oh, I haven't calculated this yet because I'm embarrassed. Over three years, and a lot of this is stuff that I will take with me. Maybe 30, 35. Okay.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Some people are gonna hear that and be just shook. What do you say to them about, like, why you're pouring so much investment into a thing you don't own?

[Imani Keel]

Technically, number one, I live here, and I think that I deserve to have a beautiful space to live in. I'm not going to sit in something that's ugly just because other people would be upset about how I spend my money. Number two, I was able to turn this into a career. So I have made significantly more money by doing all of these things than I have spent on the apartment. And number three, it's like Some. Some people have hobbies where they will go out and tinker with a car. Some people want to go to a run club. Some people want to play pickleball. I want to learn how to use a circular saw and build furniture in my apartment. I want to run around, you know, the entirety of the east coast and buy furniture off of Facebook Marketplace and reupholster the cushions and make it look pretty. This is my hobby.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

What's the hardest task you've done?

[Imani Keel]

Plumbing.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Ooh, what about plumbing?

[Imani Keel]

All of it. Water is scary. Water sometimes does not act the way you think it's going to act or something doesn't work the way you think

[Announcer/Advertiser]

it's going to work.

[Imani Keel]

And the potential for damage that can come from water to me is a lot greater than other things. You know, years ago, when I was doing a DIY project, not at my house, but at my mother's house, I accidentally turned the stop valve, and the water just was shooting. Oh. And it was dripping down the chandelier in her living room onto the floor.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

Oh, my gosh.

[Imani Keel]

Place all the hardwood floor.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

Oh, my gosh. So, like, yeah, with that, you know? Cause I could hear someone saying, hearing this and being like, ooh, this is intimidating.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

Like, yeah, it is.

[Imani Keel]

I think I know my limits. You know, I can replace a vanity and change out, like, a bathroom sink. But say, for example, my sink in my kitchen, the copper pipes needed to be replaced. And I recognized that that was something that was too much for me because I'm not going to come in here with the blowtorch and get it hot and solder and put the copper pipes. I'm not doing it. I called a very nice man to handle that.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

You know, you pour all this time and money into an apartment, but on the way out, you're gonna have to undo so much of it. How do you think of that? How. How does that feel?

[Imani Keel]

Feels fine. Because we all know people who get so excited about buying a house, then they buy the house, and the house is hideous. They keep the same teeny, tiny IKEA couch. They never get a bigger rug. They never move in. And it always feels like, oh, well, you know, when the next person is here, when I move for the resale value, and I'm like, even after spending all of this money, you're still not living in your home to the fullest so that you can make sure that your home will be nice for the person that you might sell it to in 25 years? I have every intention of living the life that I was granted to the fullest. I'm going to do everything that I want, everything that is within my means and is possible for me to have a good life. And if that means that I have to spend a couple of days after, I don't know, five years of enjoying the same apartment, taking the wallpaper down, like, okay, sure, whatever. A lot of things that I put up in here can very easily be taken apart. Like, I built this entertainment system, but I built it in five pieces that can easily be taken apart and walked out of this apartment and then moved into wherever I move next.

[Host (Jonquillen Hill)]

And that's it for this week. We're working on an episode about handwriting. We want to know, do you still write actual notes? And are we losing something when we give that up to emails and texts? Call us at 1-800-618-8545 or email us at askvoxox.com sorry, you can't write us a note for this one. If you're already a VOX member, thank you so much. If you're not and you're getting FOMO about all those ad free episodes, head over to Vox.com members to learn more. This episode was produced by Hadi Mwagdi. It was edited by Ginny Lawton, Fact Checked by Isabel Lichtenstein, engineered by David Tadashore and Miranda Kennedy is our executive producer. I'm your host, Jonquillen Hill. I'll talk to you soon. Bye.

[Caller/Listener]

Hi. I heard you're doing an episode on the joys of home improvement and that made me immediately think about the light switch in my laundry room. When I was little, my dad and I replaced the light switch in my laundry room together. And it was a fun memory of me learning something, getting to work with him. And we put it in upside down and it's been upside down for about 20 years now and it drives my mom crazy. But whenever I see it, I laugh and I think of that memory of learning how to change that with my dad and us working on our house together. And it makes it feel a little bit more ours. So I wanted to share that story with you.

[Announcer/Advertiser]

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