Does #Resist still exist?

Summary

Today, Explained: Does #Resist Still Exist?
Vox Podcast Network | Released on November 11, 2024

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Introduction: A Rightward Shift in California

In this episode of Today, Explained, Sean Ramaswaram and Melanie Mason, a senior political writer with Politico, delve into the surprising political shifts occurring in California—a state long considered a Democratic stronghold. Despite its deep blue reputation, California has moved 12 points closer to Trumpism in the latest elections, prompting questions about the future of the #Resist movement.

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Economic Pressures Driving Political Change

Melanie Mason attributes California's political shift primarily to economic dissatisfaction among voters:

"I think the economy I think we have to put at number one because inflation, although it was a problem all across the country I think that because California is already a high cost state, when prices went up even further, I think that people really, really felt the squeeze. On average, you're paying $0.70 more today for gas in San Jose than you were last Friday in Menlo Park. Above $8 a gallon, we found."
(00:45 - 03:03)

Residents are grappling with high costs of living, with weekly grocery bills averaging between $300 to $350, exacerbating frustrations with the current economic climate. This economic strain has fueled anti-incumbent sentiments, reflecting broader national trends where inflation has significantly impacted voter sentiment.

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Public Safety Concerns and Prop 36

Public safety has emerged as a critical issue, evidenced by the overwhelming support for Proposition 36, which aims to increase penalties for certain thefts and drug crimes:

"And voters were really signaling that there was a frustration, a sense that public safety was at the top of their minds and they weren't happy with how the ruling Democrats have handled it."
(04:03 - 04:50)

Prop 36 passed with 70% approval, despite opposition from prominent Democratic figures like Governor Newsom and legislative leaders in traditionally liberal areas such as San Francisco and Los Angeles. This indicates a significant disconnect between voter priorities and party leadership, particularly concerning public safety.

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District Attorney Elections: A Shift Away from Progressivism

The election results for district attorneys across California further highlight the state's rightward movement. Melanie Mason discusses the defeat of George Gascon, a progressive prosecutor in Los Angeles County, who lost to Nathan Hockman:

"George Gascon held a meeting with Black Lives Matter, including families of people who have been killed by police officers... His opponent, Nathan Hockman, ran on rolling back some of those measures."
(05:05 - 05:55)

Similarly, in Alameda County, progressive DA Pamela Price faced a recall, signaling voter dissatisfaction with liberal criminal justice reforms such as the elimination of cash bail and reduced prosecution of misdemeanors.

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Governor Gavin Newsom’s Response: Shoring Up State Policies

In response to the election outcomes, Governor Gavin Newsom is taking steps to defend California's policies against potential challenges from a Trump administration:

"He has already called for a special legislative session for next month... What he wants lawmakers to address is more funding for the state attorney General's office to fund California's legal battle against the Trump administration."
(09:51 - 10:58)

Newsom is focusing on Trump-proofing California’s key policies, including climate change initiatives, which are more aggressive than federal efforts. However, Melanie Mason notes the political balancing act Newsom faces:

"He has a pretty impossible balancing act ahead of him... he is a talented politician, so I don't want to dismiss it out of hand, but just to lay down a marker that this is not going to be easy for him."
(08:16 - 09:31)

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The Evolution of the #Resist Movement

The core of the episode explores whether the #Resist movement remains a potent force in today's political landscape. Christian Paz, a senior political reporter with Vox, provides a historical context:

"The peak moment was 2017, going into 2018. [...] Once Biden is the nominee, that's where that energy goes to. They accomplished the goal of ousting Trump."
(20:00 - 22:06)

Initially, #Resist was a coalition of diverse groups united against Trump, encompassing movements like the Women's March and March for Our Lives. However, post-2018, internal divisions and the achievement of their primary objective led to a decline in unified resistance.

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Current State of #Resist: Exhausted and Reflective

Today, #Resist appears muted and exhausted, struggling to regain its former momentum:

"It's just like a full sputtering out... there's a sense that there's some greater silent majority out there that agrees with you."
(24:54 - 26:16)

Protests now feature smaller crowds and diminished energy, reflecting organizer fatigue and a lack of a unifying figure to rally behind post-Trump administration.

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Potential for Revival: Future Activism and Challenges

Despite the current stagnation, Christian Paz suggests that the spirit of resistance may reemerge in response to future political or social challenges:

"I have to imagine that it'll maybe not roar back to life, but will for sure leap into action... if mass deportations start happening, for example, we'll see some version of a mass movement or mass protest in response."
(26:16 - 27:14)

Events such as policy reversals or social injustices could reignite the movement, though the path forward remains uncertain.

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Responses from Other Governors and the Biden Administration

Further expanding the discussion, the episode touches on initiatives by other Democratic leaders like Governor JB Pritzker of Illinois and Governor Kathy Hochul of New York, who are also striving to Trump-proof their states:

"Governor Hochul has been saying that she's going to convene the state's resources... reproductive rights, civil rights, immigration."
(16:35 - 17:24)

Additionally, the Biden administration is attempting to secure state policies against federal challenges, although Paz describes the effort as somewhat vague and reactive:

"There's been a little bit more muddledness... trying to disperse about $7 billion in aid to Ukraine... spending under President Biden's semiconductor infrastructure and climate laws."
(17:30 - 18:14)

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Conclusion: The Future of #Resist and California’s Political Landscape

The episode concludes with an acknowledgment of the complex and evolving nature of political activism in California. While the original #Resist movement has fizzled out, underlying frustrations with economic and public safety issues continue to shape voter behavior. The potential for new forms of resistance remains, contingent on future political developments and socio-economic challenges.

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Notable Quotes

• Sean Ramaswaram: "If everyone's moving to the right, what does that mean for resist and the hashtag resistance?"
  (00:45)

• Melanie Mason: "Voters were really signaling that there was a frustration, a sense that public safety was at the top of their minds and they weren't happy with how the ruling Democrats have handled it."
  (04:03)

• Governor Gavin Newsom: "Your hands aren't tied anymore."
  (06:14)

• Christian Paz: "The resistance looks like reducing our poverty rate. I think the resistance looks like improving our public schools."
  (11:07)

• Christian Paz: "Even around the time that we were noticing this increase in enthusiasm, there was an expectation that it would eventually come back to earth in some way, shape or form. And eventually it did."
  (24:09 - 24:54)

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Produced by:
Avi Shai Artsy, Avi Bai Artsy, Amanda Llewellyn, Laura Bullard, and Hadi Moogdi.

Edited by:
Patrick Boyd and Andrea Christian.

Mixed and Mastered by:
Andrea Christian.

Fact-Checked by:
Matthew Collette.

Host:
Sean Ramaswaram

Contributors:
Melanie Mason, Christian Paz

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For more insights and detailed explanations of today's most pressing issues, subscribe to Today, Explained on your preferred podcast platform or visit Vox.com.

Transcript

[Sean Ramaswaram]

The United States moved right on election night. My neighborhood in blue, AF DC Moved right. Virginia right across the river moved right. Even California moved right. What is up California? California.

[Melanie Mason]

A deep identity crisis, perhaps? I mean, Lord knows the rest of the country sees us as kind of like the land of hippies. But I think those of us who live here know that there's always been a little bit more nuance. I mean, California is a deep blue state. It's a state that's dominated by Democrats, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's sort of all Democratic Socialists of America all the time. I mean, there's shades of blue and it seems like now maybe some shades of purple and even some red.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

If everyone's moving to the right, what does that mean for resist and the hashtag resistance? We're going to ask for you on Today Explained Support for the program today comes from bettermint. You thought I was gonna say something else. Bettermint asks do you want your money to be motivated? Do you want your money to rise and grind? Do you think your money should get up and work? Betterment has a lot of questions for you and for your money. Betterment is an automated investing and savings app that they say makes your money hustle. That's a fun visual. Their automated technology is built to help maximize returns, meaning when you invest with Betterment, your money can auto adjust as you get closer to your goal rebalance if your portfolio gets too far out of line and your dividends are automatically reinvested. And according to the company, that can increase the potential for compound returns. Visit betterment.com to get started. Investing involves risk Performance is not guaranteed. Amgen, a leading biotechnology company, needed a.

[Melanie Mason]

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[Sean Ramaswaram]

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[Melanie Mason]

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[Sean Ramaswaram]

Today, explained Sean Ramisroom here with Melanie Mason, senior political writer with Politico based in California. Melanie California moved 12 points closer to Trumpism this year. What was the draw of Donald Trump in California? Was it the same story? We're seeing across the rest of the country as an immigration and the economy and maybe a little like men, just love them, can't get enough of them.

[Melanie Mason]

I would say that the economy I think we have to put at number one because inflation, although it was a problem all across the country I think that because California is already a high cost state, when prices went up even further, I think that people really, really felt the squeeze. On average, you're paying $0.70 more today for gas in San Jose than you.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Were last Friday in Menlo Park. Above $8 a gallon, we found.

[Melanie Mason]

So I think that the economic pitch and really just sort of anti incumbent frustration. Right. Which we've seen not just in America, but across, I think inflation makes voters really angry and that includes a lot of Californians. We are all aware of the fact that the cost of living in California is astronomically high. We are spending on average between 300 to $350 a week on groceries.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

And this wasn't just manifesting in terms of Trumpism in California because there are a bunch of statewide ballot measures where people also seem to sort of lurch a little rightward.

[Melanie Mason]

Right, right. The marquee ballot measure that we had in the state was called Proposition 36. And this had to do with crime. And really it was increasing penalties for certain thefts and certain drug crimes. And the reason that that was noticeable was that it is passing with a gigantic margin. I mean, this is not a squeaker by any stretch. The vote tally so far showing 70% of voters approved it versus the 29% who would not. Despite the broad support from voters in both parties, Governor Newsom and Democratic legislative leaders were major opponents of in all parts of the state, not just the redder parts, but in deep blue places like San Francisco and Los Angeles. Voters were really signaling that there was a frustration, a sense that public safety was at the top of their minds and they weren't happy with how the ruling Democrats have handled it.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

I think right now the city is.

[Christian Paz]

Just kind of having an outcry for just wanting some change.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

I don't know if it's going to have a major impact, but I'm hoping.

[Christian Paz]

It'S going to have some impact.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Was it just Prop 36 or was this issue on criminal justice manifesting in other ways?

[Melanie Mason]

In my hometown of Los Angeles, there is a very well known progressive prosecutor named George Gascon who was elected in 2020. Sort of swept in by the wave that was set off by George Floyd's murder. In Minneapolis, L.A. county's incoming district attorney.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Made good on a major campaign promise.

[Melanie Mason]

Last night.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

George Gascon held a meeting with Black Lives Matter, including families of people who have been killed by police officers.

[Melanie Mason]

And he lost reelection again quite decisively.

[Christian Paz]

Former federal prosecutor Nathan Hockman appears to.

[Melanie Mason]

Have won by a landslide. Here's a look at his opponent ran on this platform that said George Gascon, his policies have been too liberal, it's been too lawless. Things like eliminating cash bail and not prosecuting certain misdemeanors, which is what Gascogne instituted as soon as he got into office. His opponent, Nathan Hockman, ran on rolling back some of those measures.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

We've met with so many store owners out there, they don't want to have a situation where they can no longer even call the police department because the police department says our hands are tied.

[Christian Paz]

So here's the.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Here's what I'm here to tell the police department. Your hands aren't tied anymore.

[Melanie Mason]

And so I do think that this, again, the fact that you had this progressive prosecutor lose, you had another progressive prosecutor up in the Bay Area in Alameda County, Pamela Price. She has been recalled. Each of these individuals, you could say that there's certain circumstances that maybe this was more about the management of their office or maybe it was about specific handling of the case. But if you combine both what we've seen with these district attorney elections and this ballot measure, it starts build a narrative, which is that Californians were not happy with the direction that they were seeing on public safety.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

But this wasn't just public safety. Right. Because Californians voted against raising the minimum wage, against rent control, and against abolishing forced labor in prisons. Am I reading all this right?

[Melanie Mason]

Yeah. The last one about the abolishing forced slavery and prison labor was the most interesting because I think a lot of us thought, wow, like, what are the voters saying? If there's really sort of this, like, unsympathetic movement towards prisoners, what does that say? It is also notable that I believe that a similar ballot measure actually passed in neighboring Nevada. All of which is to say is that it may have more to do in all three of those examples with the relative strengths or weaknesses of those campaigns, there was a lot of money that was spent against the rent control measure, for example, including ads that featured Governor Newsom very prominently as a no on that particular ballot measure on the minimum wage, there was almost no advertising, no campaign for. And that's because the state legislature had actually passed minimum wage in various sectors. So I don't want to overindex on trying to say that all these ballot measures have fallen and therefore progressive politics is dead in California. I mean, individual campaigns matter a lot. The strengths and weaknesses of various arguments matter a lot. But I do think that when we take a step back and when you combine that with the fact that there clearly was A red shift when it came to the top of the ticket, when it came to the presidential race, there is clearly a pendulum swing that's going on. And it's notable that it's happening in a state like California, which is run by Democrats.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Let's talk about the Democrat running the state, Governor Gavin Newsom. He opposed Prop 36, harsher sentences, but he also opposed this rent control measure. He was kind of tacking back to the middle leading up to this election, despite famously being an anti Trump, anti desantis type. How's he doing right now?

[Melanie Mason]

He's not particularly popular right now. His approval ratings are not great. And so Democrats were not climbing all over themselves to try and get close to Governor Newsom. Now, that could change. I think these next two years are going to be crucial when we talk about what his larger ambitions are. Is he going to try and position himself as the foremost Trump antagonist while Trump is in the White House? Is he going to try to think about his own legacy as California governor? If that's the thing he's gonna want to potentially run on as a presidential candidate? In which case there's a lot of work to be done in California on some pretty big issues, things like the homelessness crisis, the affordability cr. And if he's, I think, seen at all as being distracted by national politics and not doing enough to tend to the concerns at home, I think that could be damaging for him. So he has a pretty impossible balancing act ahead of him. But, you know, he is a talented politician, so I don't want to dismiss it out of hand, but just to lay down a marker that this is not going to be easy for him.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

But it's only been, like, mere days since the election since Trump won, and Newsom is already saying he wants to shore up California's policies and protect their policies against Donald Trump and whatever he might want to do once he enters into office. Do we have any idea how he plans on doing that?

[Melanie Mason]

So he has already called for a special legislative session for next month.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Governor Newsom says the extraordinary session will.

[Melanie Mason]

Be essentially focused on enabling California to.

[Christian Paz]

Challenge and defend itself from actions taken.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

By the Trump administration.

[Melanie Mason]

And what he wants lawmakers to address is more funding for the state attorney General's office to fund California's legal battle against the Trump administration. California really took the lead in Trump 1.0 in launching dozens of lawsuits against the administration, and I think that they are absolutely gonna be following suit again. He also has been Trump proofing a lot of policies that could be under threat from a hostile presidential administration, things like our climate change policies in California, which are far more aggressive when it comes to trying to reduce emissions than what we're seeing nationally and certainly anything that we would see from this administration in the White House. So those BRE breadcrumbs have actually already been laid down, and I think it's only going to increase as we get closer to Trump making his appointments, making it very clear what the shape of his administration is gonna look like. I think that that energy is only gonna ratchet up.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

And do we think this state that just lurched 12 points towards Donald Trump will follow Gavin Newsom in that effort?

[Melanie Mason]

I think that's the biggest question. It's notable to me that on election night, I was in Los Angeles. I was with the California Democratic Watch Party. It was not a particularly happy. And I talked to a lot of prominent Democrats with this question, what does Resistance 2.0 look like? Because I was in Sacramento for the first one and two different gubernatorial candidates for 2026, because, yes, the governor's race of 2026 is already happening in California. Both of them struck the same tone with me. I spoke to Antonio Villaragosa, he's the former mayor of Los Angeles, and when I asked him what does the resistance look like, he said, I think the resistance looks like reducing our poverty rate. I think the resistance looks like improving our public schools. Betty Yee, who another Democrat who's running for governor, said, we're going to have to fend off a hostile federal government, but we cannot take our eye off the ball of dealing with the economic issues that drove people to Trump in the first place. To me, that's a huge Signal that Resistance 2.0 might be slightly different than Resistance 1.0, because I think there was maybe a sense even among Democratic legislators who really embraced being Trump antagonists the first time around, that maybe they let some of the internal issues that are so important to California, maybe they kind of neglected that a little bit. And I think that that actually has come back to bite them in this voter discontent that you're seeing now.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Melanie Mason, politico.com, she was wearing a Dodgers hat when we spoke. Go Dodgers. When we're back on Today explained it's not just Newsom who's trying to hashtag resist, but does that movement really even still exist? Support for today's playing comes from Mint Mobile, who says life's too short to miss out on something great, Whether it's a great party or your favorite band's last show or seeing you know Deadpool versus Wolverine in the cinema and realizing that, like, wow, half the jokes are about a corporate merger. Mint Mobile's latest deal might also be something you don't want to miss out on, because they want to let you pay $15 a month when you purchase a new 3 month phone plan. To get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com explained. That's mintmobile.com explained you can cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com explained $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a new customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Support for Today Explain Comes from Bombas Here's a piece of breaking news that won't make you curl up into a ball of anxiety, says Bombas Bombas says they just released their most comfortable socks ever. Breaking news. Bombas just released their their most comfortable socks ever. Didn't think I'd be saying those words in that order this year. If you're looking to get cozy this winter, you might want to check out the Bombas lineup, which I haven't had the privilege of doing yet. But my colleague, Neisha Chital, she has.

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[Sean Ramaswaram]

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It was very thorough. I felt like the questions they asked I hadn't even asked myself, like what.

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My phone in my hand. It was very helpful and very, very educating of how I spend my day. Stay focused on what's important to you with Noom's psychology and biology based approach. Sign up for your trial [e-mail] Christian Paz today explained Vox Senior political reporter I mixed it all up this time. Shake it up. Gavin Newsom is trying to resist. Christian, are other governors also trying to resist?

[Christian Paz]

Yeah, there's been a few, mostly obviously in blue states. I think the one that jumps out over the last week was JB Pritzker saying, you come for my people, you come through me. Which inspired a whole lot of nice memes. There's New York Governor Kathy Hochul has been saying that she's going to convene the state's resources executive departments to try to see what they can trump proof essentially how they can protect people.

[Melanie Mason]

First, I created the Empire State Freedom.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Initiative, focused on key areas that are most likely to face threats from the.

[Melanie Mason]

Trump administration again, reproductive rights, civil rights.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Immigration, and maybe revive congestion pricing while she's at it.

[Christian Paz]

Right. I don't know why it took this long, but that's gonna get us on a different tangent.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

And this isn't just governors because I also read that Biden's trying to get in on this action.

[Christian Paz]

So there's been a little bit more muddledness there. There's no formal plan. Right. Outlines of what the Biden administration can do or is doing to try to trump proof the executive.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Classic Biden classic.

[Christian Paz]

Yeah. And a certain part of this has preceded the election on immigration. Some of the stricter executive actions that the White House took, they're trying to essentially make it as bureaucratic as possible to undo some of those steps.

[Melanie Mason]

They're trying to disperse about $7 billion in aid to Ukraine by January 20 that would otherwise be liable to be clawed back. They're also trying to look at what spending under President Biden's semiconductor infrastructure and climate laws can be spent this year.

[Christian Paz]

Even though it feels a little bit vague for sure. I think part of it is that for some reason this all came as a bit of a shock to all levels of Democratic and liberal organizing and politics. It's just been kind of strange how we had spent an election talking about the existential threat that a Trump win might pose. And yet there's a little bit of this kind of flat footed response right.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Now, okay, so the response from government so far, a little flat footed in your estimation. What about the OG hashtag resistors? Are they hashtag resisting?

[Christian Paz]

My first response is that the hashtag original resistance is also in that bit of kind of reflection period in both, like processing what happened, processing how a second win was possible, how it happened, and then and trying to create like a deeper kind of proper strategy in response. After 2016, it definitely felt like it was much more spontaneous, much more quickly organized. It was a surprise, it was a shock, but there was a lot of anger. Right. And this time around, it just feels like it's a little bit slower. I know some groups are just organizing now and are planning on releasing their resistance playbook essentially later this month. But even just thinking about quick protests, I was at one of those protests this weekend down in Capitol Hill. There were like maybe 200 people there, and the energy, energy was very muted. There was loud music and there were speakers and stuff. But just talking to folks, they're tired and it just feels rather different.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Remind us, when this group peaked, was it back in 2016, maybe early 2017?

[Christian Paz]

Yeah, I would say peak moment was 2017, going into 2018. So it's been a huge shift. Obviously, this was a movement that was born out of Trump's first election. You can remember some of the big groups that organized from there were the Women's March, we can't count, but we can tell you that organizers here anticipate 250,000 plus women with 600 sister marches happening in cities across the country. It was kind of a hodgepodge of some of the groups that made up the Obama and unsuccessful Clinton Coalition, and that would end up becoming the coalition that pushed Biden into office. So these are college educated Americans in many cases. Lots of women, lots of young people, folks from the suburbs, LGBTQ people. And some of those folks were bound together by some of the early policies that the Trump administration took. So a very classic example being here in D.C. i remember how quickly the protests against the first Muslim ban came together.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Demonstrators at San Francisco's airport met by riot police, capping off a weekend of massive demonstrations.

[Christian Paz]

Obviously, after we had gun violence spiking in the US Those big moments of school shootings, another one of those organizations, March for Our Lives, sprung up in response to that.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

In a little over six minutes, 17 of our friends were taken from us, 15 were injured, and everyone, absolutely everyone in the Douglas community was forever altered.

[Christian Paz]

The whole point of this was to elect Democrats eventually in 2018, during the midterms and that energy was successful, that mobilizing was successful. And this culminated, right, with Speaker Pelosi becoming the main governmental, essentially, voice of the resistance, and that leading to the impeachments of Donald Trump.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

So this resist movement wasn't just the protest that we all remember so vividly, but actual political action that arguably accomplished tangible things. When exactly did it recede?

[Christian Paz]

Yeah, I think there's a few key markers here. I think the overarching theme of this right, is an anti Trump energy. These were a coalition, the coalition of a lot of various groups, not all necessarily having the same agenda other than to resist Trump. So once you get past 2018, there's kind of a moment of infighting, right, about how to provide the best resistance formally to Trump in the 2020 election. We have the 2020 Democratic primaries being kind of a clash of various ideas. Obviously, once Biden is the nominee, that's where that energy goes to. And I would say around the time that Biden gets inaugurated is when you can probably say that the resistance begins to recede and fade. Right, because they accomplished the goal of ousting Trump. They don't necessarily all agree with every policy that Biden has, but the goal beat Trump and the divisions kind of grow from there. Right. The truce ends after ousting Trump. And then there's kind of a free for all earlier on in the Biden administration over just how progressive, just how moderate, just how ambitious the administration should be. And we have a lot of that kind of the debate over build back, better that agenda that President Biden was trying to get through Congress, just how big to go with some of the progressive goals there. You eventually have the collapse of those negotiations. You have inflation beginning to rise. You have earlier debates over student loan cancellation, for example. There was a lot of infighting there. And eventually, toward the end of 2023, I would say that the resistance has fully fallen apart by then. There's a sign that there's not going to be a primary process, no, no way to kind of push Biden out. And you get a lot more stories about how resisters are tired and you just don't necessarily have somebody as inspiring to rally around to beat Trump another time.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Does Kamala entering the race revive some of that resist energy?

[Christian Paz]

I think for sure. I think so. I wrote about this because it was interesting to see some of the original energy and themes of the resistance coming back to life. You see fundraising increasing, you see the memes coming back and a lot of the organizing in that period to try to get people Tuned back in to get people inspired about Kamala Harris's new candidacy were the same kind of groups that were leading the early forms of Resist Politics. But obviously that didn't last forever. Even around the time that we were noticing this increase in enthusiasm, there was an expectation that it would eventually come back to earth in some way, shape or form. And eventually it did. As the campaign came to a close in October, that energy, suddenly it sustained, but it wasn't enough.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

And this weekend, you were out at the Capitol and there was a protest of 200 people who felt exhausted.

[Christian Paz]

Yeah, I feel like whatever kind of energy managed to make it through to election Day. And after election day, it was just like a full sputtering out. I mean, one of the other things that kind of makes it difficult for folks to feel optimistic or feel like they should come back in protest and organize is just. Just like when you lose the popular vote, you kind of lose that illusion that there is some greater silent majority out there that agrees with you. Like, at least after 2016, part of the reason that groups were organizing and protesting so fervently and so fiercely was because Democrats had lost despite winning the popular vote. And so there was a sense that on top of it being Trump, it's also this institution of the electoral college. The difference this time around is Democrats lost the popular vote. There's obviously not a sense of, as ballots are still being counted, just how big that loss was, but it's a symbolic defeat, too.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

That being said, Christian, is the resistance latent or is it just straight deceased? Do we think we could see this movement reemerge in 2020? 5, 6, 7, 8?

[Christian Paz]

Yeah, I have to imagine that it'll maybe not roar back to life, but will for sure leap into action. I mean, part of that is why there is a little bit of a pause and a break being taken right now by some of the big groups that help to mobilize a lot of this grassroots work because they're trying to figure out just exactly how bad is it going to get, and if so, what should we be doing in the next few weeks, two months, to prepare for that. Right. I imagine if mass deportations start happening, for example, we'll see some version of a mass movement or mass protest in response, maybe in a similar way to the response in 2018 over family separation policies. Obviously, those got a lot of attention, and part of the hope with that is to just make it to try to take back public opinion, and that will further lend energy to this movement.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

Christian Paz, Vox.com Our program today was produced by Avi Shai Artsy, Avi Bai Artsy, Amanda Llewellyn, Laura Bullard and Hadi Moogdi. Fact Checked Matthew Collette edited, Patrick Boyd and Andrea Christian's daughter, Mixed and Mastered and I'm Sean Ramaswaram. Our program is Today Explained.

[Christian Paz]

Support for this podcast comes from Stripe.

[Sean Ramaswaram]

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[Christian Paz]

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[Christian Paz]

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