Eggs aren't expensive enough

Summary

Today, Explained Episode Summary: "Eggs Aren't Expensive Enough"

Release Date: February 26, 2025
Host: Sean Rameswaram & Noel King
Network: Vox Media Podcast Network

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1. Introduction to the Egg Shortage Crisis

The episode opens with Sean Ramstorm discussing an innovative approach taken by a New York City bodega.
[00:00] Sean Ramstorm: “A New York City bodega recently started selling what they're calling Lucy eggs. Instead of a dozen or a half dozen, you can buy a little bag with three little eggs in it. The idea got a ton of attention.”

This novel packaging aims to address consumer needs amid rising egg prices, highlighting the community's creative responses to the ongoing crisis.

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2. The Bird Flu Outbreak: A National Crisis

Kenny Torella, Vox's senior reporter, delves into the severity of the bird flu outbreak in the United States.
[02:26] Kenny Torella: “The bird flu is really bad. This outbreak, which has been the worst in US history, began in early 2022 and it's only getting worse.”

The US Department of Agriculture (USDA) reports that avian flu has been confirmed in 146 flocks across the nation, affecting over 20 million birds in the past month alone. The highly pathogenic H5N1 strain has led to the euthanization of entire flocks to curb the virus's spread.
[02:59] Kenny Torella: “More than 20 million egg-laying hens were killed either because they became infected with the virus or they were killed to slow the spread of the virus. To put that into perspective, that's 6% of America's egg-laying flock.”

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3. Impact on Egg Prices and Supply Chains

The outbreak has severely disrupted egg supply chains, leading to skyrocketing prices and shortages nationwide.
[03:37] Sean Ramstorm: “Is that why the eggs are so expensive? Kenny, I don't want to make this about the eggs when you just said 20 million of our friendly chickens have died, but is that why the eggs are so expensive?”

Kenny Torella confirms that the bird flu is the primary driver behind the increased egg prices, exacerbated by broader food inflation. Stores are imposing limits on egg purchases to manage scarcity.
[03:46] Kenny Torella: “Aside from food inflation, the bird flu has led to egg shortages across the country.”

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4. Extending Beyond Eggs: Broader Animal Health Concerns

The bird flu isn't confined to poultry; it's spreading to other animals, including cows, sea lions, seals, and even felines like cheetahs and mountain lions in Arizona zoos. Human infections, albeit rare, have been reported, with serious cases resulting in fatalities.
[05:03] Kenny Torella: “Most cases have been people who work with poultry or dairy cows. And most cases have been somewhat mild. But there have been a few cases that have stood out and have concerned experts.”

Despite these alarming developments, Sean Ramstorm reassures listeners that a pandemic threat is not imminent.
[06:05] Sean Ramstorm: “But we're not at, like, you know, the pandemic threat yet either. I don't want to freak people out.”

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5. Government Response: Brooke Rollins' Five-Point Plan

Brooke Rollins, the newly appointed Secretary of Agriculture, unveiled a comprehensive five-point plan aimed at combating the bird flu and stabilizing egg prices:
[07:59] Kenny Torella: “Point one is to put $500 million towards increased biosecurity on farms. Point two is increased funding for farmers who have to call or kill their flocks. Point three is to import more eggs. Point four involves rolling back cage-free egg laws, and point five focuses on developing vaccines.”

While the plan includes measures like enhanced biosecurity and vaccine development, critics argue that many initiatives mirror previous administrations' efforts without offering substantial new solutions.
[08:38] Kenny Torella: “One point of the plan is to import more eggs, which is what the Obama administration did during the 2015 bird flu outbreak...”

The timeline for implementation remains unclear, leaving the effectiveness of the plan in question.
[10:14] Kenny Torella: “It's unclear. There's not a lot of specifics as to when and how this money will be deployed...”

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6. The Dark Side of Factory Farming

Transitioning from policy to personal stories, Kenny Torella explores the human and environmental toll of factory farming. He recounts his visit to Malcolm, Iowa, a small town now dominated by the Fremont Farms of Iowa, housing seven and a half million chickens.
[17:17] Kenny Torella: “It's actually in the middle of Iowa... there has just a couple hundred people... seven and a half million chickens to be exact.”

Carolyn Bittner, a retired pastor and resident, shares her struggles living near the massive chicken farm.
[18:36] Carolyn Bittner: “It's not close to my house, but when they move manure, the stench is sickening. And just last night there was stench.”

The overwhelming presence of factory farms has led to significant environmental degradation, including air and water pollution.
[19:13] Carolyn Bittner: “I love to hang my clothes on the line to dry and sometimes in the morning when I put them out, the air is clean because the wind is going the other way. But if the wind shifts while they're out there... smelling like chicken shit.”

Kenny Torella highlights the broader health implications, noting increased risks of respiratory issues and even certain cancers for residents living near these farms.
[20:05] Kenny Torella: “Research has found that living near a factory farm is positively associated with risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma, leukemia...”

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7. Community Resistance and Policy Challenges

Residents like Carolyn Bittner have attempted to voice their concerns, yet face substantial resistance due to lax local regulations favoring large agricultural operations.
[21:18] Carolyn Bittner: “The population here in Malcolm has been declining since I moved in. Partly, I'm sure it's because of the smell. It's just not a very pleasant place to live anymore.”

Others fear backlash for opposing factory farms, leading to community divisions and a silenced populace.
[23:10] Kenny Torella: “People are afraid to speak out. They'll lose friends... they'll lose money, you know, they'll lose business customers.”

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8. The Role of Consumers and Future Outlook

As systemic changes appear sluggish, Kenny Torella emphasizes the power of consumer choice in driving change.
[26:12] Kenny Torella: “We've become really accustomed to cheap eggs and other animal products. There is a cost to these cheap eggs and other products. There is a cost to the environment. There's a cost to people who live in rural America near factory farms. There's a cost to the animals who are treated really terr-”

He advocates for reduced consumption of eggs, exploring plant-based alternatives, and fostering a broader understanding of the factory farming system to inspire more sustainable and humane food production methods.
[26:12] Kenny Torella: “I hope that's the one kind of silver lining of this terrible bird flu outbreak is that it gives us time to pause and think about how we might raise food in a more humane and sustainable way.”

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9. Conclusion and Future Reporting

The episode concludes with Kenny Torella hinting at an upcoming series focusing on the intricate challenges of factory farming and its impact on communities, environment, and public health.
[12:48] Kenny Torella: “We've become really accustomed to cheap eggs and other animal products... And many have been sounding the alarm, but no one's really been listening.”

Listeners are encouraged to stay tuned for deeper explorations into these pressing issues in future episodes of "Today, Explained."

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Notable Quotes:

• Sean Ramstorm ([03:37]): “Is that why the eggs are so expensive? Kenny, I don't want to make this about the eggs when you just said 20 million of our friendly chickens have died, but is that why the eggs are so expensive?”

• Kenny Torella ([02:26]): “The bird flu is really bad. This outbreak, which has been the worst in US history, began in early 2022 and it's only getting worse.”

• Carolyn Bittner ([18:36]): “It's not close to my house, but when they move manure, the stench is sickening. And just last night there was stench.”

• Kenny Torella ([26:12]): “We've become really accustomed to cheap eggs and other animal products... There is a cost to these cheap eggs and other products. There is a cost to the environment. There's a cost to people who live in rural America near factory farms. There's a cost to the animals who are treated really terr-”

---

This episode of "Today, Explained" offers a comprehensive look into the multifaceted crisis surrounding egg production in the United States, intertwining public health concerns, economic impacts, governmental responses, and the human stories at the heart of factory farming.

Transcript

[Sean Ramstorm]

A New York City bodega recently started selling what they're calling Lucy eggs. Instead of a dozen or a half dozen, you can buy a little bag with three little eggs in it. The idea got a ton of attention.

[Kenny Torella]

It's not loose cigarettes, but loose eggs drawing people to Pamela's green deli.

[Pamela]

He says the idea to sell the loose eggs came after seeing customers being forced to leave a full carton on the counter. Currently, New York state requires eggs to.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Be sold in packages.

[Kenny Torella]

And while the price of eggs is.

[Pamela]

Cracking wallets right now, Rodriguez, he just hopes to help his community one day at a time.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Eggs are too expensive. Ask anyone. Ask the President of the United States the eggs.

[Kenny Torella]

Because I'm hearing so much about eggs. You'll figure it out. You gotta figure something out fast.

[Sean Ramstorm]

But on today Eggsplained, Vox's Kenny Torello is actually gonna make the case that eggs. Get a load of this guy, will ya?

[Brooke Rollins]

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[Sean Ramstorm]

Oh sheet.

[Pamela]

Honey, chill. It's just laundry.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Not that I'm talking about these Arm and Hammer power sheets. All the power of arm and hammer laundry detergent and a convenient tossable sheet.

[Kenny Torella]

Oh sheet.

[Sean Ramstorm]

That's what I'm saying.

[Pamela]

And Arm and Hammer power sheets deliver an effective clean at a great price. Think of all the laundry we'll do.

[Sean Ramstorm]

And all the money we'll save.

[Kenny Torella]

Oh sheet, arm and hammer. More power to you.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Kenny Turella, senior reporter at Vox, our man on the meat beat. It's been a minute. What is going on with the bird flu?

[Kenny Torella]

The bird flu is really bad. You know this outbreak which has been the worst in US history, it began in early 2022 and it's only getting worse.

[Carolyn Bittner]

According to the USDA, avian flu has been confirmed in 146 flocks in the.

[Kenny Torella]

Past month affecting more than 20 million birds.

[Sean Ramstorm]

The US Department of Agriculture is calling.

[Kenny Torella]

This multi year bird flu outbreak the largest in US History. The impact hits close to home. Dozens of state and federal agricultural Workers.

[Carolyn Bittner]

Dressed in biohazard suits, sanitized boots, and.

[Kenny Torella]

Gloves are assisting in the euthanization of the entire flock here. 100,000 ducks. This strain known as H5N1, it's a highly pathogenic strain of avian influenza, or bird flu, which has been highly lethal to birds raised for meat and eggs, like chickens and turkeys. You know, more than 20 million egg laying hens were killed either because they became infected with the virus or they were killed to slow the spread of the virus. To put that into perspective, that's 6% of America's egg laying flock.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Is that why the eggs are so expensive? Kenny, I don't want to make this about the eggs when you just said 20 million of our friendly chickens have died, but is that why the eggs are so expensive?

[Kenny Torella]

That's really the only reason why eggs are so expensive. Aside from food inflation, the bird flu has led to egg shortages across the country. You know, some stores are even placing limits on how many cartons consumers can buy.

[Pamela]

Can someone explain to me why people.

[Kenny Torella]

Are going crazy for eggs? Eggs are now so valuable, they've become.

[Sean Ramstorm]

A target for thieves.

[Kenny Torella]

Pete and Jerry's Organics had to beef.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Up security after thieves stole 100,000 eggs.

[Kenny Torella]

From their farm in Pennsylvania. And dozen of eggs is double now what it was before this outbreak began three years ago.

[Sean Ramstorm]

All right, guys, today is a day I know they are going to be $1.99 today.

[Kenny Torella]

Chickens must be on a strike or something because baby ain't no way. Six eggs is 4.99. The high price of eggs, it's not the only problem related to bird flu because it's increasingly affecting other animals. Scientists detected bird flu in cows for the first time ever in the United States almost a year ago. And since then, it's infected almost 1,000 dairy cowherds. But it's also infecting and killing other mammals like sea lions and seals, and it even killed a cheetah and a mountain lion at a zoo in Arizona not too long ago.

[Sean Ramstorm]

I don't love it.

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah, there's not much to love about the bird flu, especially because it's now hitting humans.

[Sean Ramstorm]

I don't love that at all. Tell me more about that.

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah. Almost 70 people in the US have tested positive for bird flu since the spring of 2022. You know, we're not doing mass testing, so it could be higher. But most of them have been people who work with poultry or dairy cows. And most cases have been somewhat mild. But there have been a few cases that have stood out and have concerned experts. You know, for example, last month there was a woman in Louisiana. She had exposure to a backyard chicken flock and also some wild birds. She got the bird flu. She was hospitalized and tragically, she passed away from the virus. And In November, a 13 year old Canadian girl who had no known exposure to wild or farmed birds or dairy cows. She developed a really severe infection and was hospitalized for weeks. She recovered, but it's still a mystery as to how she got it.

[Sean Ramstorm]

But we're not at, like, you know, the pandemic threat yet either. I don't want to freak people out.

[Kenny Torella]

No, we're not. The most important thing to keep in mind here is that almost all of these cases, again, were connected to people who work directly with animals or were exposed to animals who had the virus. At this point, this virus is not going from person to person, which is one of the key ingredients for a virus going from one that just circulates among animals to the next global pandemic. And H5N1 may never gain the ability to transmit from human to human. But the more that it circulates among people and animals and large farms, the more opportunities that it has to evolve and develop the capacity to become more severe in humans and be able to transmit from person to person.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Well, our fair president, I don't know how much he's said about bird flu, I don't know how much he cares, but he certainly has promised to bring down the price of eggs.

[Kenny Torella]

The eggs.

[Carolyn Bittner]

Hearing so much about eggs.

[Kenny Torella]

You'll figure it out. You gotta figure something out.

[Sean Ramstorm]

And since they're intrinsically related, let me ask, how's that going so far?

[Kenny Torella]

It's gotten off to a rocky start. You know, Doge and the Trump administration fired a number of employees who monitor bird flu, realized they made a mistake, and then hired them back. But in bigger news today, Brooke Rollins announced a big plan in the Wall Street Journal to fight bird flu and try to bring down the price of eggs.

[Sean Ramstorm]

I'm sorry, Brooke who?

[Kenny Torella]

Brooke Rollins. She's the new Secretary of Agriculture. Who has not much of a background in agriculture, more in conservative think tank policymaking. But she does have a new five point plan to tackle this crisis.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay, well, what are the five points?

[Kenny Torella]

Point one is to put $500 million towards increased biosecurity on farms. That includes things like more protective gear for farm workers, requiring them to shower before entering and leaving the facilities. And this could help. It's worth a shot. But this has also been a main tactic of the Biden administration. So we'll see if it helps.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay, $500 million for some cold showers. What else?

[Kenny Torella]

Increased funding for farmers who have to call or kill their flocks. Again, this is more of the same. This is something the Biden administration has done for the last three years. Hmm.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay. Anything fresh, anything new?

[Kenny Torella]

Yes and no. I mean, one point of the plan is to import more eggs, which is what the Obama administration did during the 2015 bird flu outbreak. Then there are some other ideas, like trying to roll back cage free egg laws, which we're seeing some states already trying to do, and vaccines, which is actually welcome news.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Well, I know President Trump has a history with, you know, vaccinating millions of Americans, operation warp speed, TBT, COVID 19, et cetera. But his new Secretary of Health and Human Services, Robert Fluoride Kennedy, hates vaccines. How does he feel about vaccinating chickens, though?

[Kenny Torella]

Well, thankfully, that's the purview of the USDA. So RFK Jr has no oversight over whether birds get vaccinated. Of course, I am worried that if this does start to transmit to more humans, he will have oversight over the development and distribution and approval of vaccines for people. But at least right now, it's in the USDA's hands as to whether we start vaccinating egg laying hens.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay, so we've got five points, Kenny, ranging from more showers for people working on these chicken farms to vaccinating millions, hundreds of millions of chickens potentially. Do we have any idea when this five point plan from Brooke Rollins would go into effect? I mean, we've got the Wall Street Journal op ed. When do we see the money moving?

[Kenny Torella]

It's unclear. There's not a lot of specifics as to when and how this money will be deployed and how fast they'll act on things like expanding vaccine development. So it's more of a wait and see situation. Like the last few years have been with bird flu.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay, but this issue isn't going anywhere. What's cooking in the meantime?

[Kenny Torella]

So some states are taking matters into their own hands. New tonight, the Nevada Department of Agriculture has suspended the state's cage free egg law.

[Pamela]

As the price of eggs continues to climb, one state lawmaker has introduced legislation that will repeal Michigan's new law requiring all eggs sold to be cage free.

[Kenny Torella]

The idea here is that by suspending this cage free requirement, it'll give grocery stores more flexibility in where and how they source their eggs. Okay, but it probably won't work. You know, there is one ag economist at the University of Arkansas who said that Suspending these cage free standards could, quote, unquote, very slightly address the egg shortage in Nevada, but it could exacerbate it in other states because the national egg supply is just so limited. So if you shift more to Nevada, you got to take it from another state, huh? Yeah. Ultimately, a big part of the problem here is factory farming itself. You know, a typical egg factory farm operation will house hundreds of thousands or even millions of genetically similar animals in just a few barns. And in these barns, the animals, they're in their own waste, they're breathing in toxic fumes from their manure, they're overcrowded. All of this comes together to stress them out and weaken their immune systems. One historian who studies animal disease, who I talked to, said that these kinds of conditions create the perfect opportunity for a microbe or a virus like H5N1 to effectively spread through a lot of hosts. This doesn't mean that reverting back to the farming that we had a century ago, where chickens were raised in small flocks on small farms, would fix the problem of the bird flu spread. You know, farmers have always been battling disease outbreaks on farms, but the expansion of factory farms really exacerbate the risk. And because these farms are so big and have so many chickens, if the virus affects just a few really big farms, it can send a shock to the egg supply overnight, which is what has been going on for the last several months.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay, so the culprit is factory farming, but also the norm is factory farming.

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah. And it rarely grabs the country's attention. We don't really talk that much about factory farming. You know, we're only doing this show because of this outbreak and how it's affected egg prices and the egg supply. But there are millions of people in rural America who have been dealing with the public health effects of factory farms for decades. And many have been sounding the alarm, but no one's really been listening. So I spent the last several months talking to them for a series for Vox, and you're going to hear from them when we're back on Today Explained.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Awesome.

[Elon Musk]

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[Pamela]

Support for this daily news podcast comes from an entirely different daily news podcast. Up First NPR if you listen to Today Explained, you probably like the news. You're interested in the news, but you don't want to be totally grim and depressed all the time. And that's why you tune into our show. Up first actually has a very similar vibe. They cover the three most important stories of the day in just 15 minutes so you can briskly learn what you need to know and then move on about your day. They cover everything the current administration, business, economics, immigration policy. They're going to keep it brief, but they're gonna keep it informative. Fun Fact About Me I used to be a co host of up first and I can tell you that they have some of the best radio journalists in the game. Steve Inskeep, Michelle Martin, Layla Foddle, Aisha Roscoe A. Martinez with you every day in your newsfeed, keeping you up to date on the most important stories of the day. If you're looking for a little more news and a little less noise, a good way to kick off your day and be a little more informed is up first from npr.

[Elon Musk]

Hello podcast listeners. I'm Sean Ramstorm here from the Today Explained show, and I've got some news you can use. We're taking Vox Media podcasts on the road and heading Back to Austin, Texas for the south by Southwest Festival, March 8th through 10th. We'll be doing special live episodes of hit shows, including our show Today Explained. Where should we begin With Esther Perel, Pivot, A Touch More with Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe, not just Football with Cam Hayward and more presented by Smartsheet. The Vox Media Podcast stage at SXSW is open to all south by Southwest badge holders. I'll be the guy in a Mr. T costume. We hope to see you at the Austin Convention center soon. You can visit voxmedia.comscsxsw to learn more. That's voxmedia.comsxsw.

[Pamela]

Let'S go.

[Brooke Rollins]

Birds.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Today, explained Kenny Torella, Meatbeat Vox.com factory farms are in the spotlight because of expensive eggs and bird flu and you've been reporting on them. Where do we begin?

[Kenny Torella]

So let's start in Malcolm, Iowa.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Malcolm? Yep. In the middle.

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah, it's actually in the middle of Iowa.

[Brooke Rollins]

You're not the boss of me now.

[Kenny Torella]

I went there in September. It's this tiny sleepy town about 75 miles east of Des Moines. There's just a couple hundred people. There's a post office, a bar and grill, a lot of cornfields. And on the surface it's a generally quiet and peaceful small town. Except it has millions of chickens. Seven and a half million chickens to be exact.

[Sean Ramstorm]

How many people does it have?

[Kenny Torella]

270 people. What?

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay, so that's like roughly what, off.

[Elon Musk]

The top of my head?

[Sean Ramstorm]

Like 28,000 chickens per person.

[Kenny Torella]

That's right. You must be some kind of math prodigy. I didn't know that, Sean.

[Sean Ramstorm]

I'm Asian.

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah. And I talked to a few folks in Malcolm. One of them stood out. Her name's Carolyn Bittner.

[Carolyn Bittner]

It was probably a few days after I moved in that I smelled anything.

[Kenny Torella]

She moved to Malcolm in 2008 to become a pastor at two churches. She's now retired and she told me that she really likes small town rural life and that neighbors are kind to each other. Except this one neighbor, Fremont Farms of Iowa. That's the farm that has seven and a half million egg laying chickens.

[Carolyn Bittner]

It's not close to my house, but when they move manure, the stench is sickening. And just last night there was stench.

[Kenny Torella]

And as soon as I got to Malcolm, I understood what Carolyn was saying. Here's the smell. Oh, the stench of manure hung in the air. And the closer you got to Fremont Farms of Iowa, the stronger and stronger it smelled. It was overwhelming.

[Carolyn Bittner]

I love to hang my clothes on the line to dry and sometimes in the morning when I put them out, the air is clean because the wind is going the other way. But if the wind shifts while they're out there, and especially if it shifts while they're still damp, I bring them in not smelling fresh and ozone y but smelling like chicken shit.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Damn.

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah. Livestock farms generate nearly a trillion pounds of manure each year. And fumes from that manure creates terrible air pollution which is linked to nine times more premature deaths than coal fired power plants.

[Sean Ramstorm]

This isn't like a happy story where like a trillion pounds of manure gets turned into a trillion pounds of fertilizer and recycles and closes the loop and all that.

[Kenny Torella]

Well, there's just simply way too much manure for it to all serve as fertilizer. So often farmers will over apply manure. Which one? It smells really bad, but it also leaches into water, contaminates drinking water and other issues. On top of that, other research has found that living near a factory farm is positively associated with risk of non Hodgkin lymphoma, leukemia. And people who live near them also report higher rates of headaches, depression, anger, and respiratory symptoms such as asthma.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay, that sounds worse than awful. Kenny, why would you want to live here in Malcolm, Iowa, next to the manure?

[Kenny Torella]

Well, Carolyn moved to Malcolm for a job. She didn't know that there were also seven and a half million chickens in town.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Huh.

[Kenny Torella]

And I've heard that from other people that maybe they moved there and they didn't know, or maybe they've lived there for a lot of their lives. And the factory farms started coming in the 90s and the early 2000s, and they had no choice but to just deal with it. You know, Carolyn has tried to speak up for years and tell the farm about how terrible it smells. She's also spoken up at permit hearings, too.

[Sean Ramstorm]

What has she said? How's that gone?

[Kenny Torella]

It hasn't gone that well. I mean, nothing has changed. If anything, it's gotten worse because the chicken farm now has more animals than it did when she first moved in 2008. And a lot of this just comes down to public policy. You know, the problem is that the deck is stacked against Carolyn and people like her because usually local, county, and state permitting regulations are really lax. They're really friendly to the meat, dairy, and egg industries. They allow these massive factory farms to come in to be built really close to people's homes, to churches and schools and businesses. And there's also usually pretty lax rules around how they handle that collective trillion pounds of manure. And she, you know, she told me that while Fremont Farms is doing fine, the town is kind of disappearing.

[Carolyn Bittner]

The population here in Malcolm has been declining since I moved in. Partly, I'm sure it's because of the smell. It's just not a very pleasant place to live anymore.

[Sean Ramstorm]

So Malcolm cares more about this farm and the revenue it brings in than it does the people who might bounce?

[Kenny Torella]

It seems so. And, you know, I've talked to a bunch of people in similar circumstances. You know, there are thousands and thousands of these huge factory farms, farms across the Country.

[Brooke Rollins]

You know, there are wounds in this neighborhood that, frankly, will never heal.

[Kenny Torella]

One person I talked to, her name is Sonia in Minnesota. She says that fights over big dairy operations and pig factory farms near her have torn her community apart.

[Brooke Rollins]

Deep, deep wounds in this neighborhood. And, you know, a wave of the.

[Kenny Torella]

Hand is now met with, you know.

[Brooke Rollins]

A wave of the middle finger. That's how things operate.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Dang.

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah. And there's Edith in Worth County, Iowa, who told me that a lot of her neighbors won't speak publicly against the factory farms near them.

[Carolyn Bittner]

People are afraid to speak out. They'll lose friends, you know, they'll lose money, opportunities. Small business people really have to watch it, because even if they support being against factory farms, they'll lose business customers.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Okay, so not only are we killing millions and millions of chickens and not even eating them because of bird flu, and not only are eggs more expensive across the entire country, but just living near these farms is a shit show. President Trump says he wants to do something about the price of eggs. He's got Elon Musk at his side. I don't know what his diet is, but he's also got RFK at his other side. And that dude's always going on about factory farms and agriculture in the United States and how we need to fix it.

[Kenny Torella]

I spent a lot of my career suing factory farms, and I probably sued.

[Elon Musk]

Smithfield more than any other attorney.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Tysons Perdue, is there an opportunity to hit reset right now?

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah. RFK Jr. Over the years, has really criticized factory farming. In fact, for 20 years, he was the president of the Waterkeeper alliance, which is this group that does really great work to combat water pollution from these huge farms. But I have my doubts that he's going to really do much to shake up the agricultural status quo here.

[Sean Ramstorm]

How come? Because he wasn't put in charge of agriculture.

[Kenny Torella]

Yeah, that's right. He's in charge of hhs, which includes the US Food and Drug Administration, but it's the Agriculture Department and the Environmental Protection Agency who are really in charge of regulating farms and all of this pollution.

[Sean Ramstorm]

It sounds like what you're saying, Kenny, is that the only way this would actually change and there'd be enough attention on factory farming to actually achieve political change would be if there were something as catastrophic as, like, a bird flu pandemic.

[Kenny Torella]

Maybe. I mean, maybe if we get to a point where we're rationing eggs, even.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Then it's a maybe.

[Kenny Torella]

I mean, you know, in 2009, over 10,000Americans died from swine flu, which originated in pigs and today pig factory farming looks exactly like it did in 2009. So it's hard to say what, if anything, could push the country to really rethink how we raise animals for food. And I'm not even sure a major bird flu pandemic could do it.

[Sean Ramstorm]

So that leaves us where it's on us, the consumers to make different choices.

[Kenny Torella]

That's true. We've become really accustomed to cheap eggs and other animal products. And I think visiting Iowa and hearing stories from people like Carolyn, you come to realize that there is a cost to these cheap eggs and other products. There is a cost to the environment. There's a cost to people who live in rural America near factory farms. There's a cost to the animals who are treated really terr. So yeah, there's always going to be this tension and trade off. You know, we can opt to eat fewer eggs. We can eat egg alternative products like plant based eggs. We can also use this as an opportunity to learn more about the factory farming system and maybe rethink how we produce food. I hope that's the one kind of silver lining of this terrible bird flu outbreak is that it gives us time to pause and think about how we might raise food in a more humane and sustainable way.

[Sean Ramstorm]

Kenny terrella vox.com he also makes music. In fact, all of the music you heard on today's show came from Kenny, who goes by Torello when he's dropping beats. Kenny's reporting was supported by animal charity evaluators which received a grant from the Builders initiative. And Vox's future perfect fellow Sam Delgado assisted with Kenny's reporting. Thank you, Sam. Miles Bryan produced this episode. Amina Al Saadi edited Laura Bullard Fact checked. Andrea Christensdatter and Patrick Boyd mixed. I'm Sean Ramis firm and it's today explained.