Trump loves the inflation

Summary

Today, Explained – “Trump loves the inflation”

Date: June 15, 2026
Hosts: Noel King, Sean Rameswaram
Guests: Shelby Talcott (White House Correspondent, Semaphore), Annie Lowry (Staff Writer, The Atlantic), Republican Political Commentator

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Episode Overview

This episode explores how President Trump’s unique messaging on inflation and the economy has created political shockwaves amid the end of the US-Iran war—and what it reveals about Americans’ economic anxieties. Listeners are guided through Trump’s rhetoric (“I love inflation”), the White House’s shifting economic communication strategy, the partisan weaponization of that rhetoric, and why Americans’ economic pessimism seems unshakable, no matter what the numbers say. The episode also features a discussion about “the perma session”—the new disconnect between economic data and public sentiment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The End of the US-Iran War and Economic Fallout

• The US and Iran agree on terms to end the war, reopening the Strait of Hormuz ([00:01]). Oil prices dropped from $126 to about $80 a barrel ([00:07]), but the conflict’s impact on gas and essentials fueled both inflation and poor polling for Trump.
• The focus returns to Trump’s decision-making: his priority was preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, even if it meant economic pain at home ([00:15]).

Trump’s Unfiltered Economic Messaging

• Shelby Talcott discusses Trump’s repeated, blunt admission that he “doesn’t care about inflation” or Americans’ short-term financial woes during the Iran negotiations ([02:21–03:16]).
  • Quote: “He has repeatedly pretty bluntly said that he effectively doesn't care about it. Right? He has made comments indicating that this is all short term, he doesn't care about inflation...I'm not focused on Americans economic situation when I'm negotiating with Iran.” (Shelby Talcott, [02:30])
• Trump even went so far as to declare, “I love the inflation” ([03:09]), and had chances to walk it back—but didn’t.
  • Quote: “You know what I really love? I love the inflation.” (Republican Political Commentator as Trump, [03:11])
• The rationale, as explained by advisers and insiders: Trump frames everything as part of his international legacy (Iran, Venezuela), not day-to-day pocketbook issues for voters ([03:22–05:59]).

Political Legacy vs. Economic Pain

• Trump is focused on cementing his legacy—especially regarding Iran and Venezuela—rather than worrying about midterms or domestic grocery prices ([04:16]).
  • Quote: “When the President goes down in the history books, it's not going to be for eggs being a dollar carton. It's going to be for reinvigorating Venezuela.” (Shelby Talcott, [04:39])
• This approach is surprising given the acute hardships facing American families, but Talcott argues Trump feels “unleashed” in his (final) term ([06:18]).

White House and Party Tensions

• There’s visible tension: party operatives and White House staff are frustrated, tasked with cleaning up after Trump’s remarks while still trying to address voters’ real pain ([06:38–07:15]).
• Staff try to reframe Trump’s comments, sometimes arguing his inflation remarks are “misrepresented,” but admit it’s an uphill battle ([07:07–07:15]).

Economic Messaging Power Struggles

• Advisers like James Blair and Susie Wiles are pushing for a return to core economic messages for the midterms, fearing Democratic gains could upend Trump’s agenda ([07:43–08:54]).
  • Quote: “If Republicans lose, it's going to be a lot harder for the president to get anything passed...There's impeachment concerns, et cetera.” (Shelby Talcott, [08:13])

Democrats Seize the Rhetorical Opportunity

• Democrats “are giddy,” repeatedly clipping Trump’s “I love inflation” remarks for campaign ads, seeking to recast Trump as out of touch and indifferent to American suffering ([09:23–10:07]).
  • Quote: “The President of the United States admitted, I don't think much about Americans financial situations. Well, guess who does?” (Shelby Talcott, [09:57])
• Parallels are drawn to Trump’s own approach in 2024, when he weaponized similar messaging against Biden and Harris ([10:44]).

Why Economic Data & Good News Don’t Improve the Mood

Guest Segment with Annie Lowry ([17:10–27:08])

• Annie Lowry, staff writer at The Atlantic, explores why positive economic indicators—low unemployment, rising wages, falling interest rates—no longer improve public mood.
• She coins the term “perma session” to refer to Americans’ persistent pessimism about the economy, regardless of improvements.
  • Quote: “...the consumer sentiment number, the economic sentiment number doesn't have as much to do with economics as it used to. And that's a really interesting phenomenon.” (Annie Lowry, [20:42])

Roots of the Perma Session

• The disconnect began under Obama, intensified with partisan divides: “Republicans [and Democrats] were like, I'm never gonna like the economy again if those guys are in charge.” (Annie Lowry, [21:10])
• The pandemic made things worse, fueling distrust in institutions (government, media, healthcare) ([21:42–22:28]).
• Social and news media amplify negativity, undermining trust further—even more than during past national crises ([22:28–23:37]).

The Danger of Gaslighting

• There’s a real danger in politicians telling Americans the economy is good when they don’t feel it ([23:37–25:23]).
  • Quote: “People don’t like being gaslit. People don’t like being told that they’re wrong...the fragility they feel, the fear they feel, the lack of trust they feel is wrong.” (Annie Lowry, [24:14])
• Lowry worries that neither economic improvement nor positive messaging will restore confidence: consumer sentiment is now tied to distrust, partisan negativity, and pessimism far beyond the “real” economy ([25:23–27:08]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trump’s Bluntness:

  • “I don’t care about inflation...I love it. The numbers were great.” (Republican Political Commentator as Trump, [03:00–03:11])
  • “When the war is over...it’s going to come down like a rock.” (Republican Political Commentator as Trump on inflation, [03:40])

• White House Perspective:

  • “When the President goes down in the history books, it’s not going to be for eggs being a dollar carton. It’s going to be for reinvigorating Venezuela.” (Shelby Talcott, [04:39])

• Democrats’ Response:

  • “They love this rhetoric because...they can say, This person who is in office right now doesn’t care. He’s not helping you.” (Shelby Talcott, [10:07])

• Annie Lowry on Sentiment:

  • “Economic improvements will not affect economic and consumer sentiment, because those sentiments are not...not solely about the economy anymore.” (Annie Lowry, [25:23])
  • “I do worry about the intensely negative Hobbesian view that has settled in...” (Annie Lowry, [27:08])

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• 00:01: US-Iran peace & oil price drop
• 02:21: Trump’s economic statements dissected
• 03:09: “I love the inflation” moment
• 04:16: Legacy focus vs. domestic pain
• 06:18: Trump’s “unleashed” final term
• 07:07: Staffers’ response to Trump’s messaging
• 09:23: How Democrats weaponize Trump’s words
• 10:44: Parallels to 2024 election messaging
• 17:10: Annie Lowry introduces “the perma session”
• 20:42: Disconnect between data and sentiment
• 21:10: Rise of partisan economic feelings
• 22:28: Collapse in trust and institutional credibility
• 24:14: The danger of “gaslighting” the public
• 27:08: Wrap-up on the persistently negative economic mood

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Summary Takeaways

• President Trump’s explicit disregard for inflation and Americans’ financial concerns—placing legacy-defining foreign policy decisions first—is unprecedented and politically risky, yet also a product of his “unleashed” final term.
• White House aides and Republican operatives are concerned this rhetoric will cost the party dearly, especially in the midterms, as Democrats eagerly co-opt his statements for campaign fodder.
• American economic mood is detached from real economic progress, fueled by distrust in institutions, negative media, and partisan divides. The phenomenon, dubbed “the perma session,” means that good numbers and positive spin no longer sway public sentiment as they might have in the past.
• The episode concludes with a warning: attempts to tell struggling Americans that the economy is just fine may not just fail, but backfire—leaving lasting political and social consequences.

Transcript

[Noel King]

The US And Iran say they've agreed on terms to end the war and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

[Republican Political Commentator]

You already see oil prices from a high of $126 a barrel down to about $80 a barrel today. That's, that's a lot of progress.

[Noel King]

The war of course, drove up the price of gas and other essentials and has led to some ugly polling for President Trump. 61% of adults polled by NPR, PBS and Marist disapprove of his handling of the economy. His handling in a certain light makes sense. His priority was prevent Iran from getting nukes. But Trump's messaging was unusual, unusual for a president. Last month a reporter asked Trump to what extent was he thinking about Americans finances when he negotiated with Iran.

[Republican Political Commentator]

I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one.

[Noel King]

What's he doing? Coming up on TODAY Explained from Vox.

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[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

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[Noel King]

President Trump has been talking about the economy a lot lately and some of what he said has gotten a lot of attention. What are the most attention grabbing things?

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

He has repeatedly pretty bluntly said that he effectively doesn't care about it. Right? He has made comments indicating that this is all short term, he doesn't care about inflation. And so those comments, which he again has said more than once, I'm not focused on Americans economic situation when I'm negotiating with Iran.

[Republican Political Commentator]

I think about one thing.

[Noel King]

He could not let Iran have a nuclear weapons.

[Sponsor Voice]

That's all.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

I don't care about this inflation number.

[Republican Political Commentator]

I love it. The numbers were great.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

Those comments have really stood out to people over the past few months.

[Noel King]

My favorite was I love inflation.

[Annie Lowry]

Yes.

[Republican Political Commentator]

You know what I really love? I love the inflation.

[Noel King]

I love the inflation. And then he had an opportunity to walk it back.

[Republican Political Commentator]

That's right. That's a perfect segment. Make it again.

[Noel King]

What do we make of that that he's telling us it is not a mistake?

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

I think it indicates a few things. So first of all, I think, you know, when I'm talking to administration officials and people who have known the President for years, one of the things that continuously comes back around is this is all really said in the broader context of this Iran war.

[Republican Political Commentator]

When people hear me say it, everybody agrees. Short term pain. It's going to be short term pain. Oh, when the war is over. Yes, it's coming down. I know you can't. It's going to come down like a rock.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

And that is something that the President cares deeply about and genuinely believes that he needs to continue moving, moving forward with this. Right. He has talked a lot over the past few years about Iran not being able to obtain a nuclear weapon.

[Republican Political Commentator]

One thing is certain. I will never allow the world's number one sponsor of terror, which they are by far, to have a nuclear weapon. Can't let that happen.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

And so he's coming at this economic argument from the perspective of I have to defend the decisions I've made globally. But a big part of it is also about the legacy of Donald Trump. That's something that I think this term in particular, he has been acutely focused on. He is far less worried about the midterms.

[Republican Political Commentator]

I don't care about the midterms, about

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

the price of groceries. Actually, I asked somebody who's close to the White House several months ago, you know, why isn't he more focused on this stuff? And the answer I got was, when the President goes down in the history books, it's not going to be for eggs being a dollar carton. It's going to be for reinvigorating Venezuela.

[Republican Political Commentator]

It was a great success. It was a one day war. It was really a, it was really, to be exact, 48 minutes of fury and it was over. And Venezuela is doing great.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

Going into Iran and getting their nuclear.

[Republican Political Commentator]

They cannot have a nuclear weapon. They'd use it.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

And so that's what this President is focused on. And so when he talks about the economy about I love inflation. I don't think about voters economic situations. When I'm negotiating with this Iran war, it's because he is always thinking about what he's doing legacy wise. Right. He has to defend that Iran war. That's part of his legacy. He has to defend the Venezuela situation. That's part of his legacy. And so all of these answers are tied back into how he's thinking about his history and how he's going to be remembered. I think it's just the timing of when he's saying this is really notable because obviously there are a lot of Americans who are really struggling right now.

[Noel King]

I get what you're saying about why he's articulating them. But there's part of you that thinks the president must know that now is not the time. However, let's give him a little bit of grace. Is there something about the time that maybe we're missing? Is it the case that the midterms, this is not going to mess with him and the party as much in the midterms as we may think.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

I don't know that it messes with him because he's not running again. Right. This is his last term in office. And I think that is also an overarching theme of what we're seeing. Why he's making certain decisions is because he's sort of unleashed this time around. It is certainly going to impact the party. And you're hearing from lawmakers who are

[Republican Political Commentator]

concerned we need some relief and Congress can deliver some relief. And if Congress doesn't deliver the relief, you know, I mean, I think voters are not going to be pleased. Fuel prices are, you know, as you know, people are reminded of it every, almost every block they drive, people are really feeling it.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

I mean, it's not just gas prices, food prices and other things. And I think there's a level of frustration you're even hearing from White House officials who are trying to sort of walk back what he said or say, well, he didn't really mean it in this context. He meant it in XYZ context.

[Republican Political Commentator]

Well, I don't think the president said that. I think that's a misrepresentation of what the president said. But look, I agree with the president that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

The president is doing everything he can and this entire administration is doing everything we can to bring down the cost of living in this country. And so there are administration officials who, when they hear the president say things like that, they just kind of, I think, sit back and sigh heavily. Because it does not make their jobs any easier. And there's acknowledgement about that.

[Noel King]

Who are these people? Who's driving the economic messaging at the White House?

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

I think, if we're being honest, the answer is the President, because there are advisors around him who are telling him what to do. You know, James Blair is one of the president's closest confidants. He has recently shifted over into a midterms role, but he's still very involved in the White House. And is there often the voters are

[Republican Political Commentator]

talking about the economy. 48% of voters say their number one

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

issue is the economy.

[Republican Political Commentator]

And you spend half of your powder on an issue that's not even in the top five.

[Noel King]

It's just not going to work.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

Susie Wiles has really urged the president, the chief of staff has urged the president over the past several months to focus more on the midterms. And you're. So you're hearing from the people around Trump who recognize that the midterms, even though it doesn't directly impact Trump, he's not on the ballot. It's going to impact him because if Republicans lose, it's going to be a, a lot harder for the president to get anything passed. It's already hard, and Republicans have the majority, but it's also going to impact him because they believe that Democrats, if they take back the majority, are going to try to push things forward like they did in 2016 against Trump. Right. There's impeachment concerns, et cetera.

[Republican Political Commentator]

The Democrats have already showed us what they're going to do. They basically held the government hostage. They're going to obstruct, they're going to investigate everybody in the Trump administration, and then they're going to impeach the president. I'll get impeached.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

And so you do hear from the people around Trump who care a lot about this topic and want him to be more focused in his messaging. But ultimately, as with everything else, this is Trump's show.

[Noel King]

What are the Democrats thinking every time President Trump says something like, I love the inflation, or I don't care about Americans financial situations, what do we see on the other side of the aisle?

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

I mean, they're giddy, they're kicking their feet. Right. This is something that, I mean, even Republican operatives that I've talked to, when the president made the comment about loving inflation, they said, you know, even if that's not what he meant, that's going to be clipped.

[Republican Political Commentator]

The economy is a disaster. And we know why.

[Noel King]

It's because Donald Trump and Republicans don't

[Republican Political Commentator]

give a damn about the personal finances of the American people. Donald Trump said it and he meant it.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

The President of the United States admitted, I don't think much about Americans financial situations. Well, guess who does?

[Noel King]

I do. It's top of mind for me every single day.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

You're going to see that in ads across America. And so Democrats kind of not love this rhetoric, but they love this rhetoric because it is a way for them, just like Trump was able to do during the 2024 election, which was focus on the economy. And say, this person who is in office right now doesn't care. He's not helping you. Right.

[Republican Political Commentator]

I will end the devastating inflation crisis immediately, bring down interest rates and lower the cost of energy on day one. We will end inflation and make America affordable again. We're going to bring prices way down and we get it done fast.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

That's what Trump did in order to beat Biden. And then Kamala Harris, they're doing that same thing now with the midterms based on the president's comments. Now, the question is, are they going to be able to be organized enough to make that an effective message?

[Noel King]

I think back, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, if you had an American president saying, I love inflation or I don't care about Americans economic circumstances, you do, you do feel like that would have been the end of that president's term in office. There would have been people in the streets. The world has changed, the US has changed. But I wonder what you think the broader lesson might be here. Do you think President Trump is changing the way that presidents talk about the economy, or voters are changing the way they respond to messaging about the economy and saying, like, doesn't really matter what the president says. We feel what we feel.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

I think it's a little bit of both. I definitely think, not just with the Trump administration, quite frankly, but over the past several years, there has been a shift with voters sort of dismissing the presidential argument for the state of the economy. We saw it during the Biden administration.

[Republican Political Commentator]

Come on, man.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

We're seeing it now during the Trump administration.

[Republican Political Commentator]

Nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

But I think part of that is because of how these presidents, like Trump, like Biden, are messaging, right? Their message is, effectively, things are good.

[Republican Political Commentator]

There's nothing bad about the report. Nothing bad about the report. And the core inflation is actually down about a point and a half. We're in a situation where we've created more jobs. We're in a situation where, and look, the price of gasoline is falling.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

We know that you're saying things are not good, but it's short term, don't worry about it. And actually look at all of this other data over here that shows that you're, you're not doing as badly as you feel like you're doing, right? And so voters are looking at that and saying, that's not. Yeah, that's not. I'm going to the grocery store. I'm struggling to pay for my groceries. That's not a real message. So they're kind of dismissing the presidential argument of it all. But I do think with Trump in particular, he has changed politics in the way that he is able to say things and sort of get away with them in a way that other presidents in the past have not. And I really think presidents in the future won't be able to either. I think it is unique to him.

[Noel King]

That was Shelby Talcott of Semaphore coming up the perma session. A lot of stuff is expensive right now, but other economic indicators are really, really pretty good. So why do so many of us believe that this is the worst economy in history?

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[Annie Lowry]

Today Today Explained Explained.

[Noel King]

We're back with Annie Lowry. She's a staff writer at the Atlantic. Annie recently wrote about what she calls the perma session. All right, so consumer sentiment last month was the lowest it's been since we started asking questions about consumer sentimen in 19 and 52. And notably, good economic news isn't cheering us up any. Annie says before the perma session, there was, if you think back to the Biden years, the Vibe session, the fact

[Annie Lowry]

that the unemployment rate was good and the fact that they're not that bad, and the fact that wages were going up like it didn't matter because prices were going nuts.

[Sponsor Voice]

Many Americans don't feel the economy is

[Republican Political Commentator]

strong overall or helping them or their families. I think you'd have to be ignoring what's out there in the polling and the other indicators we showed to see that there is a bad vibe. When people feel that the cost of living is very, very high and they can't make ends meet, you can't tell

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

them that they're wrong.

[Annie Lowry]

That, I think, made sense to me for a really long time. And that story kind of held right. You needed to go a couple layers into the economic figures or just talk to people about their own lives. And I think on top of that, there are non economic factors that have really started to weigh on people's understanding of the economy. A lot of people since the 2016 election have just felt like American democracy is in decline. We're in social media where we're just bombarded with negative. And now post social media, where we're just bombarded with negative messages. Liberals need to take a look in the mirror and realize that they will be the downfall of this country.

[Noel King]

The Republican nominee for the presidency went

[Republican Political Commentator]

on an interview and he stated that America's biggest problem is the enemy within our borders. For someone like Trump, who's clearly racist, sexist, senile, and all the above, and actually, if you do align with his views, then that also probably makes you the same way.

[Annie Lowry]

You know, the tenor of the news itself has gotten much more negative in a way that we can track. So all of those things figured in. But then I was looking at, you know, over the past year, you have had this pretty dramatic decline in consumer sentiment, despite the fact that, you know, not much had changed and what had changed had gotten better.

[Noel King]

Right.

[Annie Lowry]

So again, let's hold everything constant. Unemployment's a little bit better, wages are going up, cost pressures have gone down. And none of that seems to affect the consumer sentiment numbers, the economic sentiment numbers.

[Republican Political Commentator]

US Consumers have never felt worse about the current and future state of the economy. That maybe rings true for you.

[Noel King]

Consumer sentiment hitting an all time low amid growing concerns about inflation and Trump's

[Annie Lowry]

war with Iran, which means Americans are

[Noel King]

more down on the economy than in

[Annie Lowry]

any other time since 1952. So then you're like, wait, what? Right, right. So we're not talking about that. General, right, like the vibe is off. We're talking about why is it that consumer sentiment seems to have lost all of its relationship to all of the economic figures, not just the headlines. This is what I'm thinking of as the perma session. Why do people think the economy is worse now than it was in like 2009?

[Noel King]

The signs were everywhere. But now it's official.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

We are in a recession, Lehman Brothers

[Republican Political Commentator]

is going bankrupt and financial markets from Asia to Europe are doing their utmost to prevent Monday from turning from dark to black.

[Annie Lowry]

And then also, if there are material improvements in the economy and all of these things, the unemployment rate is going down, wages are going up, people are less financially fragile, interest rates are going down. All of these things, why aren't they affecting the consumer sentiment number? And I think it's because the consumer sentiment number, the economic sentiment number doesn't have as much to do with economics as it used to. And that's a really interesting phenomenon.

[Noel King]

When did that change happen?

[Annie Lowry]

I think that it has happened gradually and suddenly, to borrow from Ernest Hemingway, you started to see this really heavy partisan influence basically with Barack Obama, right, that Republicans were like, I'm never gonna like the economy again if those guys are in charge. Democrats are like, I can't like this economy of their in charge. Look what they're doing. So I think that's when it starts. I think Covid matters here that people became much more anti institutional in their thinking.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

Now to growing concerns about the deadly

[Republican Political Commentator]

coronavirus officially hitting the US we feel cautiously optimistic that we will have a vaccine by the end of this year. And as we go into 2021. This isn't just a 2021 thing. We're a coronavirus vaccine thing. But this is a mountain ever growing distrust in the government at large.

[Annie Lowry]

Social trust declined.

[Noel King]

If you've seen our conversations with top election officials in key battleground states, then you've heard their warning that the one thing that concerns them most heading into election day is the spread of disinformation to voters.

[Annie Lowry]

They're like, we can't trust the doctors anymore and the nurses. We can't trust the media. We can't trust the education system.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

The majority of Americans have lost faith and trust in US institutions.

[Annie Lowry]

Stop the steal. Stop the steal. And then I think that social media has had, and the media environment has had a big role in all of that. I think that go back to a moment in American life when there was more trust in institutions, even if conditions were in a lot of ways tougher. You know, we have less Trust in institutions than each other now than we did during the civil rights movement. Right. The extraordinarily painful period that leads up to the passage of the Voting Rights act and the Civil Rights Act. Less time than during Vietnam, less than when Abu Ghraib was revealed, less than we invaded Iraq. And, you know, we really, really, really don't think of the political system as responsive to us anymore. We don't trust each other. We don't trust the police, the courts, the schools in a profound way. And I don't think people are wrong about this entirely. Right. Who, who existing in this modern day environment is like, oh, yeah, institutions have really acquitted themselves.

[Noel King]

Well, they haven't, you know, and, and who is going to respond to. But wages are up with, yes, and therefore everything in my life is great. Right. Like some of the data that you point out is really quite compelling. And this is often the case with economic data. It's really quite compelling. And it's still. You still have people saying, yes, but I don't feel it. So this makes me wonder, what is the danger? And I assume there is a danger in insisting, in telling Americans, look, you guys, the economy is really good when people are inclined to say to you, yes, but it doesn't feel like that way. It doesn't feel like that for me.

[Annie Lowry]

I think that there's such a lesson here in Joe Biden's loss of his reelection campaign. And I should. Kamala's right. But, you know, Biden was, was losing before Vice President Harris took over. People don't like being gaslit. People don't like being told that they're wrong. That their perception and how they feel and the fragility they feel, the fear they feel, the lack of trust, they feel is wrong. And I think that it's one thing for me to do it right. Like I clicky clack on the Internet and write nice magazine stories. I can make people mad. I love it when people argue with me. But for a politician to do that, right, like they're responsible for our civic welfare. Right. This is dangerous in my mind. I don't think you're gonna convince people that the economy is better now than it was 10 years ago. Cause they don't. At some point, very often people will be like, I don't care. Everything's so expensive. I'm not sure that my kid is gonna have a job. I don't know if I'm gonna have a job. How am I gonna retire? Look at everything else going on. Why are you trying to tell me that you Know, like, don't do that. They think they're gaslit, right?

[Noel King]

Yeah.

[Annie Lowry]

And so where I think it is hard is two things. So one is that I am not sure that economic improvements will ever, for the foreseeable future. Who says ever? Everything changes, but for the foreseeable future will raise consumer and economic sentiment. And again, I want to be really specific about that. Economic improvements will not affect economic and consumer sentiment because those sentiments are not. Not solely about the economy anymore. For good reason and for reasons that I think we are getting to understand that are complicated, that have to do with media and social media, have to do with politics, have to do with a lack of institutional trust, all of those things. I do think that it'll push politicians to constantly run on the negative. This other guy screwing you, right? This guy's screwing you. This person is screwing you. They're trying to tell you that everything's great now, but don't believe them. I'm not a political scientist, I'm not a pollster, but I do worry that we are just bombarded with so much negativity about things vastly outside our control. Up until about a year ago, if you ask people how their personal financial situation was, they would say, mine's good, but I'm worried about everybody else. And I was like, that's pretty telling, right? I'm okay, but I'm worried. Now people actually think that their situation isn't very good either, which, you know, I'm not sure that we're gonna explain it, but I do just worry about the intensely negative Hobbesian view that has settled in, which, at least for me, I think it's important to kind of be like, okay, but some things have gotten better. Not everything, but some things are improving.

[White House Correspondent (Shelby Talcott)]

Foreign.

[Noel King]

Is a staff writer for the Atlantic. Hadi Wagdi and Dustin DeSoto produced today's show, and Jolie Myers is our editor. David Tadashore and Patrick Boyd engineered and Gabriel Dunatov checked the facts. I'm Noel King. It's Today Explained.