Episode Overview

Title: Fed up
Host: Noel King (Vox)
Guests: Matt Grossman (Wall Street Journal), Andrew Prokop (Vox), Bill Pulte (clip audio), Lisa Cook (clips)
Date: August 27, 2025

This episode of Today, Explained delves into President Trump’s efforts to remove Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook amid unsubstantiated allegations of mortgage fraud. The show explores the rarely tested legal and institutional frameworks that protect Fed officials, the striking political weaponization of federal regulatory agencies, and the background and role of Bill Pulte—the Trump-appointed director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency—who has spearheaded efforts to drum up accusations against political opponents. The episode unpacks the implications for the Fed’s independence and the broader American political system.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Is Lisa Cook?

• Role and Background:
  • Lisa Cook is one of seven governors on the Federal Reserve Board, an academic economist, and a Biden appointee.
  • She grew up in Georgia, came from a middle-class background, and holds a PhD in economics from Berkeley.
  • Known for her research on economic history of the Soviet Union and Black Americans in the US, focusing on the intersection of violence, race, and economic opportunities ([02:14]–[04:19]).
  • Quote, Lisa Cook (about her research):

    “If I'm a black inventor in another city, why would I ever invent anything if I thought the intellectual property was never going to be defended?” ([03:45])

2. The Allegations Against Cook

• Nature of Charges:
  • Bill Pulte, director of the FHFA, publicized documents alleging that Cook took out two mortgages for supposedly two primary residences, implying mortgage fraud ([04:25]–[05:21]).
  • President Trump has called for her removal “for cause” on this basis, despite no criminal charges or investigations at the time.
  • Quote, Bill Pulte:

    “She needs to explain herself, but unfortunately, it’s in black and white, and I don’t think it’s going away… I think she needs to resign quickly.” ([04:56])

3. Presidential Authority and the Fed

• Removal for Cause:
  • Federal law is vague regarding the president's ability to remove Fed governors; tradition and statute have generally made it difficult, requiring evidence of actual wrongdoing, not just political differences ([06:02]–[07:17]).
  • No president has successfully attempted to remove a Fed board member or chair for cause before.
  • If Trump proceeds, it would likely result in a protracted legal battle—a significant test of the statutes underlying the Fed’s independence.
  • Quote, Matt Grossman:

    "It’s really an open question as to which way this goes." ([06:02])

4. Cook’s Response

• Denial and Legal Action:
  • Cook has responded by hiring a high-profile attorney, characterizing any attempt to fire her as unlawful, and signaling intent to challenge any dismissal in court ([07:21]).
  • No lawsuit filed yet as of the episode’s recording.

5. The Political Subtext: Race and DEI

• The episode highlights underlying animosity from the Trump administration towards Cook’s background and focus on race and discrimination in her research.
• Noel King observes the administration’s disdain for DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) initiatives, hinting at a broader politicized context for the attempt to oust Cook ([07:53]–[08:16]).
• Matt Grossman notes that Cook was a relatively low-profile governor until the allegations surfaced.

6. Implications for the Federal Reserve

• Trump has opportunities to significantly reshape the Fed:

  • Jerome Powell’s term as Chair is about to expire; a new vacancy is open due to Kugler’s resignation ([09:05]–[10:10]).
  • If Cook is removed, Trump could claim another seat, moving toward a so-called “Trump Fed” that might be more politically compliant.

• Quote, Matt Grossman:

  "If the Fed comes to be more under presidential control... it could be a huge setback for the American economy, for American financial markets." ([10:22])

• Cites historical context of why Fed independence exists, referencing Paul Volcker’s difficult but necessary decisions to curb inflation in the 1980s ([10:22]–[12:04]).

Segment Highlight: Who Is Bill Pulte?

(Deep-dive begins at [15:11])

1. Background

• Bill Pulte, 37, comes from a wealthy family of homebuilders; launched private equity activities in housing and became known for “Twitter philanthropy”—giving away thousands to followers to gain attention ([16:47]–[18:01]).
  • Quote, Bill Pulte:

    "If somebody can demonstrate to me how they'll use $10,000, I'll give away $10,000." ([17:37])

2. Political Influence

• Pulte donated to pro-Trump causes and was rewarded with the FHFA directorship.

• Known for his aggressive and partisan style on social media.

• Quote, Andrew Prokop:

  "[Pulte] has been extremely successful at both inserting himself into political controversies and in dredging up accusations and political attacks against enemies of President Trump." ([15:29])

• Pulte’s focus as FHFA director has not been core regulatory work, but rather using the position to aid the Trump administration in targeting political adversaries.

3. Use of FHFA Power to Target Trump’s Adversaries

• Pattern of Behavior: Pulte has scrutinized mortgage records of prominent Democrats:

  • Adam Schiff (CA senator, intelligence committee chair)
  • Letitia James (NY Attorney General).

• Cited possible mortgage fraud as a pretext for criminal referral, using FHFA’s tools ([21:34]–[22:56]).

  • Quote, Bill Pulte:

    “We're not going to have mortgage fraud. It doesn't matter who you are... if you do mortgage fraud, we're going to come after you.” ([16:08])

• Seen by many as politically motivated, an unprecedented use of such agencies to go after political opposition.

4. “Weaponizing Government”

• The episode connects Trump’s tactics with a broader strategy: using federal agencies to intimidate or remove critics.
• Quote, Andrew Prokop:

  "He's using this as leverage to try to both get retribution and to push aside critics or people who are inconvenient to him politically." ([23:15])
  "What he is doing is weaponizing government more and more, including parts... like the Federal Housing Finance Agency to dig up dirt on his enemies, to push aside critics, to seize more power for himself..." ([25:27])

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the stakes for democracy:

  • Matt Grossman:

    "If the economy loses that kind of referee, but also if investors, business people, and everyday Americans lose the confidence that that sort of hand of God is there to guide the economy the way it ought to go, [that] could be a big setback." ([11:58])

• On breaking of political norms and escalation:

  • Andrew Prokop:

    "We've really seen these norms and constraints more and more falling away in a way that is quite concerning, and we're probably still at the very early stages of it." ([24:57])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Lisa Cook and the basis of allegations – [02:14]–[05:54]
• Legal limits to removing Fed governors – [06:02]–[07:17]
• Trump’s moves to remake the Fed – [09:05]–[10:10]
• Implications for US economy and democracy – [10:22]–[12:04]
• Who is Bill Pulte? – [15:11]–[19:30]
• Pattern of using mortgage fraud allegations against political enemies – [21:34]–[24:28]
• Analysis of the broader political context ("weaponizing government") – [24:57]–[25:27]

Tone & Takeaways

Today, Explained presents the episode in a clear, accessible, but urgent tone. The discussion is both informative and cautionary, emphasizing the unprecedented nature and risks of politicizing independent economic institutions and weaponizing regulatory agencies. The hosts and guests take care to distinguish facts from speculation and stress the long-term risks for American democracy and the economy if these boundaries continue to erode.

Summary prepared for listeners seeking to understand the context, background, and stakes of President Trump’s push to remove Fed Governor Lisa Cook—and the disturbing new precedent these efforts might set for American governance.