From Alligator Alcatraz to South Sudan

Summary

Today, Explained
Episode: From Alligator Alcatraz to South Sudan
Hosts: Noel King and Nick Miroff
Release Date: July 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Today, Explained, hosts Noel King and Nick Miroff delve into the Trump administration's aggressive immigration and deportation strategies. The discussion encompasses the administration's push to deport individuals to third countries, the creation of unconventional detention facilities like "Alligator Alcatraz," and the implementation of the CBP Home app aimed at encouraging self-deportation. Through detailed analysis and expert insights, the episode sheds light on the complexities and controversies surrounding these policies.

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Trump Administration's Deportation Strategies

Expanding Deportation Eligibility

The Trump administration has significantly broadened the criteria for who is eligible to be arrested and deported from the United States. According to immigration expert Camilo Montoya Galvez from CBS News, the administration is not only increasing deportations to an individual’s country of origin but also to third countries, which are not the migrants' home nations.

Camilo Montoya Galvez [02:12]: "The administration has dramatically expanded who is actually eligible to be arrested and deported in the first place."

Agreements with Third Countries

To facilitate these deportations, the administration has secured agreements with various countries willing to accept deportees. These agreements include nations such as El Salvador, Panama, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Honduras, South Sudan, Kosovo, Rwanda, Equatorial Guinea, Angola, and Eswatini.

Camilo Montoya Galvez [02:22]: "The administration is also increasing the number of deportation arrangements with different countries... including Rwanda, to have the US deport people who are not from those countries to those nations."

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The South Sudan Deportation Controversy

Details of the Case

A controversial attempt to deport eight men with serious criminal records to South Sudan exemplifies the administration's third-country deportation policy. These individuals, hailing from Cuba, Myanmar, Mexico, and other Latin American and Asian countries, faced significant legal hurdles.

Noel King [03:55]: "A federal judge in Massachusetts said Wednesday the Trump administration's deportation of eight migrants 'unquestionably violates a court order'..."

Legal Challenges and Court Rulings

A federal judge in Boston halted the deportation, citing the need for proper screening and interviews by U.S. asylum officers before removal to South Sudan. The state of South Sudan, the world's youngest country, faces criticism due to its political instability and poor human rights record.

Camilo Montoya Galvez [03:55]: "The US State Department... warns Americans not to visit this country because of the threat of being kidnapped or otherwise harmed."

The administration responded by relocating the detainees to an American military base in Djibouti for continued processing, pending Supreme Court approval.

Noel King [05:16]: "The High Court allowing them to resume deporting migrants to countries other than their homeland... like South Sudan."

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New Detention Facilities: Alligator Alcatraz

Description of the Facility

In response to overcrowded ICE detention centers, the administration, in collaboration with Florida state officials, established a makeshift detention facility nicknamed "Alligator Alcatraz" in the Everglades. This facility features a 30-foot tall wall and reportedly houses numerous alligators as an added deterrent.

Noel King [10:44]: "None of this was here five days ago and we saw at least 30 alligators on our way in."

Expansion Plans and Funding

The administration has introduced a substantial funding package known as the "big beautiful bill," allocating $45 billion to expand ICE's detention capacity to over 100,000 detainees. This expansion includes both new facilities and the enhancement of existing ones, heavily supported by for-profit prison companies.

Camilo Montoya Galvez [11:54]: "...the bill... offers ICE $45 billion in additional funding to expand its detention network."

Officials have set unprecedented goals, aiming to deport nearly one million individuals annually, a target yet to be reached.

Camilo Montoya Galvez [12:00]: "The administration has set very ambitious goals in terms of its aggressive immigration agenda."

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Self-Deportation: CBP Home App

Overview and Implementation

The Trump administration introduced the CBP Home app as a tool to incentivize undocumented immigrants to voluntarily leave the United States. Originally designed for scheduling cargo inspections, the app was repurposed with input from Trump advisor Stephen Miller to promote self-deportation.

Nick Miroff [16:17]: "The Biden administration's attempt there was... CBP Home. And that idea came from Trump advisor Stephen Miller."

Functionality and Incentives

Users of the CBP Home app can enter personal information and departure plans. The administration offers to cover travel expenses and provides an "exit bonus" upon arrival in the destination country, which need not be the individual's homeland.

Nick Miroff [19:32]: "The administration is offering a thousand dollar... exit bonus, which you will receive upon arrival in your destination country."

Effectiveness and Critiques

While the program has facilitated the self-deportation of over 3,000 individuals out of 7,000 sign-ups, critics argue that the incentives are insufficient and the promised opportunities to return legally to the U.S. remain vague.

Nick Miroff [21:12]: "Seven thousand people have signed up so far through the app to self deport and they have confirmed more than 3,000 departures."

Advocates express concern that the administrative portrayal of self-deportation as a humane option undermines the reality that many deportees may face severe repercussions in destination countries without robust protections.

Nick Miroff [23:42]: "They're making it sound as if you'll go home and you'll just... get an appointment to come back to the United States legally. And that is not the case."

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Conclusion

The episode paints a comprehensive picture of the Trump administration's multifaceted approach to immigration enforcement, characterized by aggressive deportation tactics, the establishment of unconventional detention facilities, and the promotion of voluntary self-deportation through technological tools like the CBP Home app. While these strategies aim to reduce the number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S., they also raise significant legal, ethical, and humanitarian concerns. The long-term effectiveness and consequences of these policies remain subjects of intense debate and scrutiny.

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Notable Quotes:

• Noel King [03:55]: "A federal judge in Massachusetts said Wednesday the Trump administration's deportation of eight migrants 'unquestionably violates a court order.'"

• Camilo Montoya Galvez [07:36]: "Under the Trump administration, the US has begun flying hundreds of migrants... to Panama."

• Nick Miroff [16:17]: "It was like a very, you know, dark and kind of scary ad."

• Camilo Montoya Galvez [12:00]: "Officials have set very ambitious goals in terms of its aggressive immigration agenda."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners unfamiliar with the content.

Transcript

[Noel King]

President Trump met with the leaders of five African nations at the White House yesterday. One oops got all the attention when Trump paid Liberia's president a compliment.

[Nick Miroff]

Well, thank you. And such good English. Such beautiful. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully?

[Noel King]

English is Liberia's official language.

[Nick Miroff]

Were you educated where in Liberia? Yes, sir. Well, that's very interesting.

[Noel King]

Anyway, you know what happened behind closed doors right before that meeting, Trump pushed those African leaders to accept people who are being deported from the U.S. that's according to a Wall Street Journal exclusive. The Trump administration is going increasingly ham on sending people who entered the US Illegally to countries that they are not from. In fact, it's trying all kinds of ideas to increase the pace of deportations. And we're going to tell you the latest today on TODAY Explained. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today. As marketing channels have multiplied, the demand for content has skyrocketed. But everyone can make content that's on brand and stands out. With Adobe Express, you don't have to be a designer to generate images, rewrite text and create effects. That's the beauty of generative AI that's commercially safe. Teams all across your business will be psyched to collaborate and create amazing presentations, videos, social posts, flyers and more. Meet Adobe Express, the quick and easy app to create on brand content. Learn [e-mail] Express Business. You're listening to TODAY Explained.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

My name is Camilo Montoya Galbez and I cover immigration and border policy for CBS News.

[Noel King]

The Trump administration is using a few different strategies to try to raise the number of deportations. What strategies are they using at this point?

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

Well, the administration has dramatically expanded who is actually eligible to be arrested and deported in the first place. The administration is also increasing the number of deportation arrangements with different countries want to have those countries take back their citizens who are in the country illegally. But it is also importantly asking different countries across the world to take back deportees who are not their own citizens. And it has already convinced countries in the region like El Salvador, but also Panama, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Honduras and others to take back people who are not from those countries. It has secured Some limited agreements with countries like South Sudan, Kosovo in Europe, and others, including Rwanda, to have the US Deport people who are not from those countries to those nations.

[Noel King]

I want to ask you about South Sudan because there was a story last week that I think flew a little bit under the radar in which some men were actually sent from the US To South Sudan. Can you tell us what happened there?

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

Yes. So for the past few weeks, the Trump administration has been trying to deport a group of eight men with serious criminal records to South Sudan. But those efforts had been blocked by a federal judge in Boston who had found that these detainees needed to, at the very least, be screened and interviewed by a U.S. asylum officer before being deported to South Sudan.

[Noel King]

The Trump administration is now fighting back after a judge ruled the administration broke the law by deporting eight undocumented migrants. The White House attempting to send these men from various countries to the nation of South Sudan. A federal judge in Massachusetts said Wednesday the Trump administration's deportation of eight migrants, quote, unquestionably violates a court order blocking deportations to third countries without allowing detainees to contest their removal.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

And the reason behind that is because, of course, this is the youngest country in the world and it is one plagued by political instability and armed conflict. The US State Department, actually, Noel, warns Americans not to visit this country because of the threat of being kidnapped or otherwise harmed. And so advocates for immigrants were really concerned that these men could be victimized or otherwise harmed in South Sudan if deported there. The US Decided to send them to an American military base in Djibouti to undergo that screening. And they were stuck there for weeks until the Supreme Court just a few weeks ago allowed the administration to carry out these third country deportations with a very limited degree of due process and notice, and then later clarify that that order also allowed the administration to deport these men to South Sudan.

[Noel King]

A significant win for the Trump administration here, the High Court allowing them to resume deporting migrants to countries other than their homeland. And we're talking about some turmoil ridden countries like South Sudan. Yeah, the reaction here, especially the ordinary South Sudanese people, are actually concerned because.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

They say these are criminals.

[Noel King]

And if America, a great nation, is actually fearing them to stay in the.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

US Why would they be brought here?

[Noel King]

This is what.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

And it's really important to remind everyone, obviously, that the men we're talking about, Noel, don't hail from South Sudan. They are from countries like Cuba, Myanmar, Mexico and other countries in Latin America and Asia, not from South Sudan.

[Noel King]

Do we know what happens to the men?

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

When they get there, it is really unclear. The US has said that South Sudan is offering them a temporary immigration status so they can live in that African country for a certain period of time that will be dictated by officials there. The US Said that it has not asked South Sudan to detain them. But the concern among advocates is that the human rights record of this country is not a very good one. And so they have concerns about what could happen to these men. Of course, South Sudan knows about their criminal histories, which are very serious in nature. Some of their convictions include convictions for homicide and sexual assault. And they believe that could potentially cause officials to take any retaliatory action against these men rather. And so that is a concern. But the problem here is that these agreements have been very secretive in scope.

[Noel King]

Okay, so this is a bit of a patchwork mess. You do have some countries potentially saying, we will take people, but we won't take people with serious criminal records. What other countries are we talking about here? Is there, like, a list somewhere?

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

Well, we know, for example, that the US under the Trump administration, has already deported third country migrants to places like Costa Rica and Panama, which received deportees from Africa and Asia. Earlier in the second Trump administration, the.

[Nick Miroff]

US Began flying hundreds of migrants, mostly from Asian, Middle Eastern, and African countries, to Panama.

[Noel King]

Just last night, these folks who've been deported from the United States to Panama were transported to a camp near the Darien jungle. And there's about 100 of them, including eight children, who are now at that jungle camp.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

The country of Kosovo in Europe has agreed to take 50 people, which is, again, a limited number, but it is still significant because it is the first country in that continent, in Europe, to agree publicly, at least, to accept third country nationals. Under the Trump administration, the US has.

[Noel King]

Cut a deal to send a small number of migrant deportees to the European nation of Kosovo.

[Nick Miroff]

Selected third country nationals may be relocated to Kosovo for up to one year. Then Pristina will support their safe return to their homeland.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

And we also know, based on documents, that the administration has approached countries like Equatorial Guinea, Angola, Eswatini, Rwanda, and others in Africa to also strike some of these agreements. These are countries, in many cases, where the US has tremendous leverage because they are developing countries that rely in many ways on U.S. financial assistance and support. And so these are the countries that have the most to lose if the US Were to retaliate for not striking these agreements, and maybe are also the most to gain if they actually agree to accept these deportations from the U.S.

[Noel King]

One challenge that the administration has been facing from the jump is that you have got to hold people someplace before you deport them and there has not been capacity. What's the administration's plan to deal with that?

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

ICE right now, according to internal data that we obtained, is holding about 58,000 detainees. That is about 140% of its congressionally funded capacity. So they are way over capacity. And the agency, Noel, has been running out of space because ICE operations have been expanding. And the agency is arresting more people than it can actually hold in detention before moving to deport them to their countries of origin or to a third country. The administration is doing multiple things to try to address this issue. Obviously, it is trying to move people out of the country as quickly as possible, but it is also turning to the Department of Defense and to military installations to try to convert them into processing facilities and temporary immigration detention centers, for example. They're looking at whether friendly states like Florida and Texas and can aid that detention capacity level by offering facilities like Alligator Alcatraz.

[Noel King]

Welcome to Alligator Alcatraz. The entrance here is a 30 foot tall wall.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

None of this was here five days.

[Noel King]

Ago and we saw at least 30 alligators on our way in.

[Nick Miroff]

We have a lot of bodyguards and a lot of cops that are in the form of alligators.

[Noel King]

You don't have to pay them so much.

[Nick Miroff]

It might be as good as the real Alcatraz. You know, it could be. Well, that's a spooky one too, isn't it?

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

That is the tent facility that Florida state officials set up about a week ago in the Everglades to hold people awaiting deportation, people transferred from ICE custody. But right now, Florida retains control over this facility, which again is in the middle of the Everglades and is by most objective measures sending rather a message that the administration and Florida are going to take a very tough stance on this issue and that if you are in the country illegally or planning to potentially cross into the country illegally now there is a non zero chance that you could end up in a facility like Alligator Alcatraz in the middle of the Everglades.

[Noel King]

Does the Trump administration have plans to build more facilities along these lines?

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

Yes, it does. And in fact, the big beautiful bill that President Trump has recently signed into law is offering ICE $45 billion in additional funding to expand its detention network. And the money will allow ice, according to cost estimates, to expand that detention capacity to more than 100,000 detention be to do so, ICE will have to contract new facilities, but obviously there are many for profit prison companies that are eager to help ICE in this effort because it is highly profitable to be housing immigration detainees right now during the second Trump administration. So we should expect the administration to move aggressively to set up new detention facilities and to expand capacity at existing ones, too. The Trump administration has set very ambitious goals in terms of its aggressive immigration agenda. Officials have set a goal of deporting close to 1 million people per year, which has never been done in U.S. history. And right now ICE is not getting close to that number. And so what ICE is saying now is that the big beautiful bill that has been signed into law will allow the agency to turbocharge its arrest and deportation efforts. But it's still to be determined whether they can actually meet these very lofty and ambitious targets.

[Noel King]

Camilo Montoya Galvez. He covers immigration and border policy for CBS News. Up next, the push to get people to self deport Is it working? Support for this show comes from Salesforce. Today. Every team has more work to do than resources available, but digital labor is here to help. Agentforce, the powerful AI from Salesforce, provides a limitless workforce of AI agents for every department. Built into your existing workflows and your trusted customer data, AgentForce can analyze, decide and execute tasks autonomously, letting you and your employees save time and money to focus on the bigger picture, like moving your business forward. AgentForce what AI was meant to be? Learn more at salesforce.com agentforce.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

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[Noel King]

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[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

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[Nick Miroff]

I mean, you know, one minute I was watching Dodgers game, and the next minute I looked up and there was Kristi Noem, the, the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

[Noel King]

An illegal alien from Guatemala charged with raping a child In Massachusetts, an Ms. 13 gang member from El Salvador accused of murdering a Texas man.

[Nick Miroff]

She's thanking Trump for cracking down at the border. It starts showing images of alleged gang members that the administration has sent to this mega prison in El Salvador.

[Noel King]

These are just some of the heinous migrant criminals caught because of President Donald J. Trump's leadership.

[Nick Miroff]

It's like a very, you know, dark and kind of scary ad.

[Noel King]

If you are here illegally, you're next. You will be fined nearly $1,000 a day, imprisoned and deported. You will never return. But if you register using our CBP Home app and leave now, you could be allowed to return legally.

[Nick Miroff]

And then suddenly it pivots to this pitch for CBP Home, which is the administration's self deportation app. And the message of the, of the ad was basically, you know, you better self deport using this app or else, you know, we could throw you into some kind of, you know, gulag in El Salvador.

[Noel King]

Do what's right. Leave now. Under President Trump, America's laws order and families will be protected. What is this app? It's been around for a while, right?

[Nick Miroff]

The app originally started out primarily as a tool for trucking companies that wanted to schedule cargo inspections along the southern border. It was called CBP1. And CBP1 was essentially repurposed in 2023 by the Biden administration when the Biden administration was trying to get asylum seekers and migrants who were flooding across the border, trying to get them to schedule appointments. If they're seeking asylum, they can use an app on their cell phone called CBP1. O, N, E C, B, P1 1, O, N E. That's to spell it out. Not the number one. The Biden administration's attempt there was basically to get people to kind of hope that if they could schedule an appointment to kind of manage the flow of people a little bit better and, you know, and get people to wait. And the Biden administration eventually brought in, you know, allowed about a million people to come across the border. And that was a big source of scorn from Republicans and from, you know, President Trump along the campaign tr and so what we saw several months into the administration was a rebranding of CBP1 as CBP Home. And that idea came from Trump advisor Stephen Miller. And they have rolled out the app now as a self deportation app.

[Noel King]

So when you give an illegal immigrant.

[Nick Miroff]

A check for say $1,000 or $2,000.

[Noel King]

Whatever it may be, $3,000 to leave the country, you're saving taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

Is also saves money relative to us having to go out and find that illegal alien and physically arrest them and.

[Noel King]

Deport them, which of course they will still do. Tell me about the idea behind self deportation and how it's supposed to work.

[Nick Miroff]

Well, the administration is inviting that person to go to this app, CBP Home, and enter personal information and a departure plan. And then someone from the Department of Homeland Security is basically going to contact that person and help them coordinate travel and confirm other details of the departure. The administration is willing to pay airfare and other related travel to people who volunteer to self deport and is offering a thousand dollar, what they call exit bonus, which you will receive upon arrival in your destination country. That doesn't have to be your home countries, but it can't be the United States.

[Noel King]

In the first half of the show, we talked about the Trump administration sending people to third party countries, countries that they are not from. If a person chooses to self deport, what are the punitive aspects of this that they might miss?

[Nick Miroff]

Well, they will miss all of the punitive aspects and that's a big part of the self deportation pitch from the administration. They're saying, you know, if you voluntarily agree to do this process, you'll be protected from our ICE officers and agents. And a much more unpleasant outcome that would involve being kept in ICE detention in what everyone knows are pretty dire conditions right now. I think what the administration is really banking on is that by making deportation by ICE seem as intimidating and as scary as possible, that they will get more and more people to opt to self deport.

[Noel King]

How effective has this been?

[Nick Miroff]

Well, in terms of overall numbers, I would say it's still pretty modest. Seven thousand people have signed up so far through the app to self deport and that they, they have confirmed more than 3,000 departures. But the numbers do seem to be accelerating as the administration advertises the program more widely. But I think what they're really banking on is that the ICE mass deportation campaign will be scary enough that they'll get more and more people, you know, willing to do this.

[Noel King]

Nick, this is anecdotal but I know that for example, if you look on social media like TikTok, you will see people talking about their decision to self deport to go home.

[Nick Miroff]

Hi, my name is Q. I'm making.

[Noel King]

This video to share my experience as.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

I am beginning self deportation. My name is Francisco and I recently.

[Noel King]

Self deported from the US to live.

[Camilo Montoya Galvez]

In Mexico with my husband.

[Noel King]

After being in this country for 36 years, my mom is leaving behind three grown ass kids and three grandchildren. She decided to do this in her own terms. This was her finally meeting with my grandma after driving five hours from Mexico City to her town. A few thousand people doesn't sound like that much given how much chatter there is about it. Does this feel bigger than it actually is or do we actually not know a real number?

[Nick Miroff]

I think at this stage it feels bigger than the numbers indicate so far because of the administration's promotion of CBP Home, the ads like the one that I described with Secretary Noem and some of the social media videos that you reference. But I do think that this is, you know, that they are, they are counting on this program to really expand that. They think a lot more people are going to take this route. So I think we can expect that a lot more people are going to end up wanting to take the self deportation option.

[Noel King]

You have sources inside the administration and I wonder, you know, one narrative is, look, this is just better, this is more humane. This is, it's more humane to make the decision on your own terms than to get sent to Alligator Alcatraz. As much glee as there has been over that within the administration, when you talk to people, do they see it that way? Do they see it as, look, we're giving you a choice. It's just, it is better for you.

[Nick Miroff]

That's what they say. I mean, they view CBP Home as the more, you know, humane alternative to being arrested by ice. You know, they think that also that by presenting people with this option and you know, sweetening it by even offering, you know, to pay travel expenses and to provide a cash bonus, that they're giving people a really good choice. And so it almost kind of further criminalizes in their mind the decision to remain in the United States without legal status. The administration is also saying that if you, if you leave voluntarily through CBP home, that you will have an opportunity to apply to return to the United States. But as advocates are pointing out, the administration has not specified how exactly that will work. And so they're making it sound as if you'll go home and you'll just go to, you know, show up at the US Embassy the next day and get an appointment to come back to the United States legally. And that is not the case. And so people who do take this option are, you know, potentially going to be unable to return to the United States if ever. And there's no actual mechanism that will give them kind of an advantage if they apply for a visa. The only thing is, you know, supposedly that will count favorably toward their case or their application.

[Noel King]

Nick Miroff of the Atlantic Gabrielle Burbay produced today's show. Miranda Kennedy edited, Laura Bullard is our senior researcher, Andrea Christensdotter and Patrick Boyd engineered. The rest of our team includes Avishai Artsy, Hadi Mwagdi, Miles Bryan, Peter Belladon Rosen, Devin Schwartz, Denise Guerra, Rebecca Ibarra, Amine El Saadi and Jolie Myers. Sean Ramas firm is back from vacation next week and not a mom too soon. Tomorrow we're off. You can look for a rerun of our show on Plastic Rain in your feeds. And coming up on Sunday, of course, explain it to me. We'll explain it to you. J.Q. what are you covering this week? Okay, so this week we're going to be talking about people and their relationships with AI. We got a ton of calls from listeners who use chatbots on a regular basis. And people use it in all kinds of ways, some for work, some for small tasks, and some people even use it just to vent or talk. Did you get anyone who has, like, an AI boyfriend or girlfriend? No one with a romantic relationship, but we do have a caller who likes to have, like, deep, philosophical conversations. Yes. Yes. All right. I will be there. Tune in on Sunday. Today Explained is distributed by wnyc, and the show is a part of vox. If you would like to support our journalism, you can do so by joining our membership program. In this economy? Yeah, it's not that expensive. Go to Vox.com members to sign up if you're interested. And thank you from all of us.