From TikTok to 小红书 – Today, Explained
Vox Podcast Network | Release Date: January 24, 2025
Introduction
In this episode of Today, Explained, hosts Sean Ramaswamy and Noel King navigate the turbulent waters of the social media landscape, focusing on TikTok's precarious position in the United States and the emergence of RedNote (小红书) as a popular alternative among American users. The discussion delves into the cultural implications of this shift, the changing dynamics within RedNote, and potential solutions to the overarching problems plaguing modern social media platforms.
1. TikTok’s Turmoil
The episode opens with Sean Ramaswamy detailing TikTok's recent instability in the U.S. market. Approximately a week prior to recording, TikTok experienced an unexpected 14-hour outage, followed by the platform reverting to serving Trump advertisements to American users. This disruption coincided with President Trump's executive order aimed at extending the TikTok ban, raising constitutional questions.
“TikTok is in a state of flux. About a week ago, it disappeared for about 14 hours, even though it didn't have to.” – Sean Ramaswamy [00:00]
“No one knows if that's constitutional.” – Sean Ramaswamy [00:08]
These events reflect the ongoing tensions between U.S. regulatory bodies and Chinese-owned social media platforms, highlighting the precarious nature of TikTok's future in the American market.
2. Rise of RedNote (小红书) as an Alternative
In the wake of TikTok's uncertainties, many Americans have migrated to RedNote, a Chinese-origin app also known as Xiaohongshu. This shift is not merely a change of platform but signifies deeper cultural exchanges and political expressions among users.
“A bunch of Americans downloaded a way more Chinese app called RedNote and some of them started pledging allegiance to Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party.” – Sean Ramaswamy [00:22]
Steffi Seou, an Internet culture reporter and longtime RedNote user, provides an in-depth look into the app's transformation:
“RedNote, originally known as Xiaohongshu, a little while ago before the wave really hit... It really started in China as an answer to Instagram, which is censored domestically in the country...” – Steffi Seou [02:26]
RedNote was initially designed as a blend of Instagram and Pinterest, catering primarily to young women in urban Chinese cities with content focused on lifestyle, makeup, beauty, fashion, and travel tips.
3. Cultural Shifts and User Dynamics on RedNote
As RedNote gains popularity among American users, the platform experiences significant cultural shifts. Steffi Seou observes an influx of English content and a departure from its original Mandarin-centric user base, leading to mixed reactions from existing Chinese users.
“There's a lot more English on the app... Historically, a very Mandarin app, Jarring.” – Steffi Seou [06:38]
“There's a lot of criticism now from Chinese users that it's a lot more like TikTok than it is...” – Steffi Seou [06:38]
These changes have led to tensions within the community, as the app grapples with maintaining its original identity while accommodating a growing international user base. Steffi highlights the irony of American users expressing frustrations with their own government by increasingly engaging with a Chinese platform:
“American users are really frustrated with their government right now... finding the most annoying and provocative... way to deal with these frustrations.” – Steffi Seou [05:15]
This phenomenon illustrates a complex interplay between political dissent and digital expression, where RedNote becomes a medium for Americans to indirectly challenge their own governmental policies by aligning with a foreign platform.
4. The Evolution of Social Media and Introducing the Fediverse
Transitioning from the specific case of TikTok and RedNote, the episode broadens its scope to address the systemic issues inherent in contemporary social media. David Pearce, editor at large at The Verge, critiques the current state of social platforms:
“Social media is not for you anymore... It's about engagement. It's about money. It's about monopolizing your attention.” – David Pearce [15:23]
Pearce introduces the concept of the Fediverse as a potential remedy to these problems. The Fediverse is envisioned as a federated and decentralized network of interconnected platforms, allowing users to maintain control over their data and interactions across various services.
“It's called the Fediverse. It is federated and universe... the idea of it is to take social networks out of being these individual platforms... and just smash all of those things together into something the size of the Internet.” – David Pearce [16:36]
He explains that the Fediverse would enable seamless interaction across different applications, fostering a more open and user-controlled social media environment. For example, a user on Mastodon could interact with someone on Threads without being confined to a single platform's ecosystem.
“If you have a Mastodon account, you can follow any Threads user... your stuff is part of the Fediverse.” – David Pearce [20:41]
Pearce argues that adopting the Fediverse model could restore user autonomy and mitigate the monopolistic tendencies of major social media corporations.
5. Fediverse: A Path Forward
Sean Ramaswamy and David Pearce delve deeper into the practicality and incentives for adopting the Fediverse. Pearce emphasizes the economic potential, suggesting that building on a federated network could open up vast opportunities for developers and entrepreneurs to innovate without the constraints imposed by centralized platforms.
“If we do this right, the opportunity becomes gigantic... companies that get to build and charge for tools.” – David Pearce [21:32]
He draws parallels between the Fediverse and democratic ideals, highlighting how it empowers users to reclaim control over their digital lives:
“The Fediverse ultimately feels like a reminder to users of social media that they are actually the ones who have the power and the control.” – Sean Ramaswamy [22:42]
Pearce concludes by likening the Fediverse to the broader Internet, advocating for a system where users can customize their online experiences without being tethered to a single corporate agenda.
“It's just the Internet. If we do this right, it's just the Internet.” – David Pearce [24:35]
Conclusion
"From TikTok to 小红书" offers a comprehensive exploration of the shifting dynamics in the social media sphere, driven by geopolitical tensions and user dissatisfaction with centralized platforms. Through insightful discussions with experts like Steffi Seou and David Pearce, the episode underscores the urgent need for more decentralized and user-centric alternatives like the Fediverse. As social media continues to evolve, the ideas presented in this episode highlight potential pathways toward a more open and equitable digital future.
Notable Quotes Recap
- “TikTok is in a state of flux. About a week ago, it disappeared for about 14 hours, even though it didn't have to.” – Sean Ramaswamy [00:00]
- “No one knows if that's constitutional.” – Sean Ramaswamy [00:08]
- “RedNote... started in China as an answer to Instagram...” – Steffi Seou [02:26]
- “American users are really frustrated with their government right now...” – Steffi Seou [05:15]
- “Social media is not for you anymore... It's about engagement. It's about money.” – David Pearce [15:23]
- “It's called the Fediverse... take social networks out of being these individual platforms...” – David Pearce [16:36]
- “If we do this right, the opportunity becomes gigantic...” – David Pearce [21:32]
- “It's just the Internet. If we do this right, it's just the Internet.” – David Pearce [24:35]
Produced by Travis Larchuk | Edited by Jolie Myers | Mixed by Patrick Boyd and Rob Byers