Hacking our health

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Hacking Our Health"

Podcast: Today, Explained by Vox
Date: August 17, 2025
Host: Jonathan Hill
Guests & Contributors: Adam Clark Estes (Vox tech reporter), Anahad O'Connor (Washington Post health columnist), Dr. Ruth Wood (Neuroscientist, USC), Various listener call-ins

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Overview

In this episode of Today, Explained, the team dives into America's obsession with "hacking" health—exploring how technology, hormones, and supplements are used in the quest for wellness. Through firsthand experiences, expert opinions, and some critical skepticism, the episode looks at the promises and pitfalls of wearable fitness trackers, hormone therapies like testosterone replacement, and the booming supplement industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Tech-Driven Search for Wellness

(01:40–09:39)

• Wearables as Biohacking Tools
  Adam Clark Estes, who tested a variety of fitness and health trackers—including the Oura Ring, Whoop band, Apple Watch, and continuous glucose monitors—explains their role in shaping physical, mental, and digital wellness.

  • Estes' motivation: "I wanted to try to figure out what the right balance would be...if all of these futuristic monitors and trackers could tell me more about how what I was eating or how much I was exercising or sleeping, how that was, you know, really affecting my body." (03:28, Estes)
  • He found the Apple Watch and Oura Ring most useful, highlighting the value in their simplicity, comfort, and the immediate feedback they provide. The Apple Watch emphasizes standing, exercise, and movement "rings," while the Oura Ring adds personalized feedback, such as readiness and sleep scores.

• The Double-Edged Sword of Data Feedback

  • Many users (and the hosts themselves) shared experiences of obsessively tracking health metrics—sometimes to an unhealthy degree.

    "I did become fixated on closing my rings, meeting my calorie goals in a way that it did seem it was unhealthy. I constantly check my stats, calories, steps, everything to the point where I was using that data to justify whether or not I was allowed to eat that day." (06:56, Listener Call-In)

  • Estes connects with this:

    "By the end of it, that was the experience. The experience of being obsessed with checking these apps and of trying to make sure I closed my rings and got a good score here and a good score there. And it gets really out of control if you're doing it on multiple platforms." (07:37, Estes)

  • However, he also points out:

    "The data that health trackers can offer you is really feedback about how your body's doing...It can also tell you when you are feeling tired and would probably benefit from a less intense workout. And that's something I've taken away from this." (08:30, Estes)

• Limitations and Broader Problems
  Estes is candid about the outsized expectations:

  "I think that a lot of our problems with health in the United States have to do with our healthcare system and how it works. But I will say that health trackers are a very American solution. It is a gadget, it’s a product that you can buy that puts you in the driver's seat of looking after your health." (09:39, Estes)

  • He emphasizes that while trackers can be helpful, they aren't a substitute for a robust health care system.

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2. Hormones and Biohacking: The Testosterone Craze

(12:31–21:00)

• Testosterone's Rise in the Mainstream
  The segment moves to the growing trend of hormone manipulation, especially testosterone therapy among men. Prescription rates have jumped from 7.3 million in 2019 to more than 11 million in 2024. (13:07)

  • Testosterone is described by guests as a "secret weapon":

    "I tried testosterone replacement and it just gives you so much virility." (12:47, O'Connor)

  • Dr. Ruth Wood explains:

    "Testosterone acts throughout the body, and it is muscle building...It works very well to increase muscle mass. And it's also lipolytic, which means it's fat metabolizing, so it produces more lean mass and less fat mass. And so this is what many people are looking for." (13:44, Dr. Wood)

• Distinguishing Anabolic Steroids and Therapeutic Testosterone

  • Anabolic steroids usually involve large, often abused doses for muscle gain.
  • TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) is prescribed, usually in lower doses, especially for aging men with naturally declining testosterone. There’s concern about “low T” clinics prescribing without proper tests. (14:39–15:45)

• Cultural and Media Influences

  • The idea that men need to be "cut":

    "There's a lot of media attention to the idea that men need to be really cut...The bodybuilders of that era in the 40s...really wouldn't even rate a second glance nowadays because that was as big as you could get at the time without exogenous steroids." (15:48–16:20, Dr. Wood)

  • The acceptability and ease of access now makes muscular physiques and use of substances "normal" in Hollywood and even the military:

    "The widespread availability of testosterone has made it seem normal to have relatively more muscular physique. And you see this particularly in Hollywood when you look at older stars and you think, you know, nobody puts on that kind of muscle mass just by themselves as they age. So it’s generally accepted that Hollywood as well as the military, there’s definitely a lot of low level use of performance enhancing drugs. Why? Because they work." (17:11, Dr. Wood)

• Risks, Downsides & Open Questions

  • Despite proven efficacy, there are health concerns:

    "They do cause changes in blood chemistry and they can cause liver dysfunction. And so there are definitely some health concerns...that need to be looked at." (17:53, Dr. Wood)

  • On longevity clinics and "optimization":

    “I don’t think we really know enough about the long term effects of testosterone replacement therapy...Does it improve quality of life though? I would say probably yes in terms of people’s sense of energy and their sense of strength, as well as their libido and perhaps zest for life.” (18:58, Dr. Wood)

  • Cautions for age groups:

    "I don't think that there's really any reason for young men to take TRT therapy at this point. They are at the peak of their own endogenous testosterone production..." (19:38, Dr. Wood) "For older men...once you start taking TRT, you're actually going to suppress your own endogenous testosterone production further. And that means that you really need to make a commitment to take this long term." (20:08, Dr. Wood)

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3. Supplements: The Wild West of Wellness

(21:47–30:41)

• America’s Love Affair with Supplements

  • 60% of Americans use dietary supplements, with usage increasing alongside age. Many people take several at a time, some dozens. (23:58, O’Connor)
  • The apparent purpose is to “feel better,” but actual benefits are often ambiguous.

• Efficacy, Risks, and the Placebo Effect

  • Well-intentioned clinical trials often yield surprising results.

    "...People who we assign to take these supplements actually develop side effects and are more likely to develop, you know, cancer or heart disease, prostate cancer, things like that, and have been shocked. You know, in fact, what we know is that it's the dose that makes the poison." (24:40, O'Connor)

  • Overconsumption is more dangerous than most realize, as dietary supplements are delivered in concentrated forms.

• Poor Regulation & Loopholes in Oversight

  • The 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act has left the supplement industry "very loosely regulated," enabling easy market entry and unverified health claims.

    "...the supplement industry pushed for this law...which basically created what many critics call the Wild west of the supplement industry, where supplement makers can make all sorts of health claims. They don't have to undergo clinical trials...The FDA really can't do anything once they're on the market unless there are reports of severe side effects." (25:45, O’Connor)

    • An estimated 90,000 dietary supplements are currently on the market.

• Specific Supplements: Should You Take Them?

  • Multivitamins:
    "If you are eating a healthy diet, then it's very unlikely that you actually need a multivitamin. Although there have been some studies showing benefits...in older adults..." (27:42, O'Connor)

  • Probiotics:
    They can disrupt gut microbe diversity if taken as pills; better sourced through fermented foods like yogurt or kimchi.

    "If you take a probiotic in capsule or pill form, that can throw off the balance of your gut microbial ecosystem...But probiotics are good for you, and you can get them from fermented foods." (28:10, O'Connor)

  • Creatine:
    Proven benefit if combined with resistance training for muscle growth, but the effect is moderate and evidence for cognitive benefits is lacking.

    "There have been studies showing that when you take a creatine supplement in combination with resistance training...then you can get some benefits...But the benefits are not extraordinary." (29:09, O’Connor)

  • Bottom Line:
    Unless you have a diagnosed deficiency, target nutrition through whole foods.

    "...there is a multi billion dollar industry that wants the profit off of you..." (30:21, O’Connor)
    "You should be focusing on getting your nutrients and vitamins from your diet just by eating a lot of healthy whole foods, which is what human beings have been doing for millennia and has always worked." (30:35, O’Connor)

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Noteworthy Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the psychological impact of wearables:

  "Knowing my hourly and daily step count did something weird to my brain that I couldn't turn off." (07:33, Listener Call-In)

• On the supplement industry:

  "You and I can easily create our own supplement company in five minutes." (26:51, O’Connor)

• On testosterone and its social normalization:

  "...When you look at older stars and you think, you know, nobody puts on that kind of muscle mass just by themselves as they age." (17:11, Dr. Wood)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Fitness Trackers & Tech Biohacking: 01:16–09:39
• Hormones, TRT, and Steroid Culture: 12:31–21:00
• Supplements & Regulation: 21:47–30:41

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Conclusion

This episode is a comprehensive, skeptical tour of the modern American drive to “hack” wellness. Tech wearables can provide helpful data but risk fostering obsession. Hormonal therapies offer real but poorly understood trade-offs. The supplement industry, meanwhile, thrives amid loose regulation—encouraging potentially risky self-experimentation. The experts agree: the simplest, most time-tested path to wellness is eating whole foods and listening to your body, not to an app or a marketing claim.

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For more award-winning podcasts from Vox Media, visit podcast.voxmedia.com.

Transcript

[Jonathan Hill]

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[Anahad O'Connor]

Supplements often have really concentrated doses of these vitamins and nutrients that we didn't evolve to consume.

[Adam Clark Estes]

I woke up in my 40s, sore all the time, unable to recover as quickly as I used to at high doses.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

Testosterone in certain individuals does cause aggressive behavior.

[Jonathan Hill]

I'm John Glen Hill and this is Explain it to Me from Vox. In our last episode, we talked about wellness, what it is, and why we're so obsessed with it. Here are five tips from a dietitian that will actually improve your overall wellness. We're wellness girls. Of course we're going to know the difference between a regular massage, lymphatic massage, and body work. The wellness industry is a $1.8 trillion business, y'. All. That's a ton of money. Today we're going to talk about some of the high tech gadgets that people are using to biohack their bodies, starting with wearables.

[Fitness Tracker User]

I've just about tried everything Fitbit, Apple Watch, Garmin, the Google Pixel watch, and currently I use the Oura Ring. I wear a fitness tracker every single day and I have for probably 12 years. It is not hyperbolic to say that my app, Apple Watch saved my life.

[Jonathan Hill]

Vox tech reporter Adam Clark Estes has been thinking about wearables and how they relate to his own wellness.

[Adam Clark Estes]

I think that we're all pursuing a state of wellness and I Think that what that means to each person varies a little bit. And it has varied for me as I've gotten older. When I was young, I was an athlete and I really wanted to be like, top performing. And now I'm a young dad and I just want to make it through each day. So wellness is something that encompasses physical wellness, mental well being, and increasingly, I'll be honest, digital well being.

[Jonathan Hill]

With that in mind, at the beginning of the year, Adam decided to go all in on health and fitness trackers, and he wrote about the experience. You know, your watches that remind you when to stand, your rings that give you a sleep score. He even tried a pair of headphones that monitor your brain. So why did he do this big experiment?

[Adam Clark Estes]

I did it because I'm interested in how technology, and especially gadgets can make our lives better. But I'm also well aware of the fact that they can sometimes make our lives a little bit worse. And I wanted to try to figure out what the right balance would be. I started this experiment of testing a lot of wearables, and I wondered if all of these futuristic monitors and trackers could tell me more about how what I was eating or how much I was exercising or sleeping, how that was, you know, really affecting my body and how it was making me feel.

[Jonathan Hill]

Which wearables did you decide to wear? Can you run us through the list and, like, what each one did?

[Adam Clark Estes]

There is a long list of wearables that I tried, and I don't even think I can remember the name of everything. But the list of the wearables that I really sort of stuck to and frankly liked included the Oura ring, which is a smart ring.

[Jonathan Hill]

I like that it tells me when to go to bed. But I also could do that for free. I think my favorite thing about it is that you can, like, track what you're feeling that day. So far, a lot of my tracking has been fatigue.

[Adam Clark Estes]

A similar ring made by a company called Ultra Human, there was the whoop band, which is basically a. It's like a smartwatch without the watch part. So just a band that you wear that has a little tracker on it.

[Jonathan Hill]

This will track its senses immediately when my activity level has started. And it's so accurate down to the minute for when it ends. I'm actually, like, confused and shocked and awed by it. And it's like, almost creepy how accurate it is.

[Adam Clark Estes]

The Apple watch, which I had before this, it was just my. My watch and still is. And then I tried a couple different brands of continuous glucose monitors, which ones.

[Jonathan Hill]

Felt useful and which ones were like, less useful.

[Adam Clark Estes]

It's difficult for me to describe what useful means for a health tracker because you literally do not need to use it. What I found to be useful were the things that met my needs and helped me towards my goals. And those two were the Apple watch, which I already had, and then the Oura ring, which is a newer piece of tech and can do kind of all the same things that an Apple watch can do health tracking wise, but is a lot more comfortable when you wear it for sleeping. What Apple does with fitness tracking is also fairly standoffish. Like, the main thing they have are rings. Like you're supposed to close your rings every day. One is for how long you're standing, one is for minutes exercised, and one is vaguely defined as move. It's how much you move and if you close those rings, then you've had a good day. Aura takes it to a degree that I would not quite call woo woo. But there is, it is, it is definitely a little bit more connected to your feelings and connected to kind of like a way of thinking about healthy living. And at the same time, like Apple, it's not giving you too much data. Some of what some of these health trackers give you just way too much data. But Aura gives you these scores and getting a score is definitely like getting a grade in school. But it, like as someone who went to school, it made immediate sense to me.

[Jonathan Hill]

Yeah, I mean, and I get that, like I'm a person who wants the A and we had lots of listeners who called in and said that it sort of made them obsessive about their health and things like that.

[Fitness Tracker User]

I did become fixated on closing my rings, meeting my calorie goals in a way that it did seem it was unhealthy. I constantly check my stats, calories, steps, everything to. To the point where I was using that data to justify whether or not I was allowed to eat that day. I would go down our apartment, which is on the fourth floor, and go up and down our flights of stairs at like 10 or 11pm at night just to close either my exercise rings of my calorie rings. So I was a little obsessed. Knowing my hourly and daily step count did something weird to my brain that I couldn't turn off.

[Jonathan Hill]

Did you have that experience at all?

[Adam Clark Estes]

I would say by the end of it, that was the experience. The experience of being obsessed with checking these apps and of trying to make sure I closed my rings and got a good score here and a good score there. And it gets really out of control if you're doing it on multiple platforms. And it also, like the utility of it gets drowned out by just the attention it takes to keep up with all these scores and metrics. I, I, I do the thing where I forget to wear my watch to the gym all the time and I, and I, I don't think that the, the workout counts. And I think that that is like tapping into some part of my brain that I would like to leave alone.

[Jonathan Hill]

Yeah, it does seem like there's something in us that wants to win at health in a way.

[Adam Clark Estes]

I mean, who wouldn't want to win at health? It's like kind of the whole game. But what I realized and what this experiment taught me is that those scores can, can be more useful than that. It's not just about getting a good score or about completing the planned workout every time you do it. I think that the data that health trackers can offer you is really feedback about how your body's doing and it can tell you when you did a really great job in a workout. It can also tell you when you are feeling tired and would probably benefit from like a less intense workout. And that's something I've taken away from this now there. I used to have a pretty set workout schedule and now I actually respond to that readiness score and sleep score and plan my workouts around that.

[Jonathan Hill]

So America has this reputation of being pretty unhealthy. And you know, these sorts of trackers have been around for a while and they're growing in popularity. But you know, there's diabetes, there's heart disease, there are all these ailments that we have that aren't necessarily going down among Americans. Do you think that means trackers are just a dream? Like, do they not work?

[Adam Clark Estes]

The real answer there is there is no one thing to do to be healthy or one thing that we can do as a nation to all become healthier. It's an incredibly complex problem. I think that a lot of our problems with health in the United States have to do with our healthcare system and how it works. But I will say that health trackers are a very American solution. It is a gadget, it's a product that you can buy that puts you in the driver's seat of looking after your health. I think it does make a lot of people feel empowered and I think that these devices are actually life saving for some people. There is tons of research that have showed that the rise in fitness trackers and health trackers has led people to move more and walk more So I think that's all promising, but at the end of the day, I don't think that there's a great substitute for a healthcare system that is open to as many people as possible and available and that delivers good outcomes in treatment.

[Jonathan Hill]

So that's what goes on our bodies, but what about what goes in them? Next up, when fitness lovers take hormones foreign. Explain it to me. Comes from pure leaf iced tea. Picture this. You've been working hard all day. You had lunch not too long ago and now your shoulders are starting to droop and your motivation is starting to tank. We've all been there, but the clock only reads 3pm and as much as you might want to call it a day, you still have a lot of stuff left to do. Well, you can bounce back from that slump with a refreshing beverage in hand and you can take a real break. A tea break with pure leaf iced tea. Pure leaf iced tea is real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors. With just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine, you can renew your mindset and your motivation so you can be ready to take on what's next and close out the day strong. The next time you need to hit the reset button, have a pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for pure leaf.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Are you feeling more fulfilled now that.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

You'Re back to work?

[Anahad O'Connor]

No, I need a vacation. See the movie that critics are saying is an awesome.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

Look at that crowd pleasing, fist pumping all out brawl of a film.

[Jonathan Hill]

You're right about that. They're coming after our family. Fix this. Oh my.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

Nobody 2. Rated R. Only in theaters now.

[Jonathan Hill]

Okay, so earlier we talked about all the tech people are using to track sleep and fitness all in the name of biohacking. But what if you're trying to do that with the help of hormones?

[Adam Clark Estes]

Hormone replacement therapy exists for a reason. And that reason is it makes you feel way better. It makes your body work way better.

[Anahad O'Connor]

I tried testosterone replacement and it just gives you so much virility. I mean, it'll make your penis reach for a damn deck of cards.

[Jonathan Hill]

We all have naturally occurring hormones in our bodies. These regulate everything from mood to muscle growth. But more and more men have been looking to boost their testosterone levels lately.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Prescriptions for Testosterone grew from 7.3 million in 2019 to more than 11 million in 2024.

[Jonathan Hill]

Dude, it's awesome.

[Adam Clark Estes]

I feel alive. I'm stronger than I've ever been in my entire life. I'm healthier than I've ever been.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

I'm on an anti Aging protocol from my doctor that includes testosterone replacement, but.

[Anahad O'Connor]

I don't take any steroids.

[Jonathan Hill]

So is testosterone really the secret weapon for getting all jacked and living forever? That's the question I posed to Dr. Ruth Wood. She's a neuroscientist and chair of the Department of Cell and neurobiology at usc. She spent four decades researching the effects of steroids like testosterone.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

Okay. Steroids are a class of molecules that are derived from cholesterol, and they're naturally produced in the body in the gonads, which means in the ovaries in women and in the testes in men. So testosterone acts throughout the body, and it is muscle building, which is. It's anabolic, and it works very well to increase muscle mass. And it's also lipolytic, which means it's fat metabolizing, so it produces more lean mass and less fat mass. And so this is what many people are looking for when they're either taking testosterone therapy or they're using anabolic steroids.

[Jonathan Hill]

I think there's often confusion between anabolic steroids and therapeutic testosterone. Can you talk about the difference between the two and why that distinction matters?

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

When we're talking about anabolic steroids sort of out there in the cultural landscape, we're usually talking about abuse of very large amounts of exogenous testosterone and other related compounds. Anabolic steroids can be taken via a variety of different methods, either injection or oral, or even a gel that can be applied on the skin. When we're all talking about testosterone replacement therapy, we're often talking about lower amounts of testosterone. And it's frequently being prescribed for men as they age who naturally will have reduced levels of their own testosterone. I think what's happening nowadays is that there are med spas and low T clinics that will not require a blood test. And so a man can come in and say, hey, doc, I'm feeling kind of low energy, and I'm not really myself. I'm frustrated by my lack of strength. And can I get some trt?

[Jonathan Hill]

What about the cultural impact of testosterone and steroids?

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

I think one of the really interesting phenomenon is that there's a lot of media attention to the idea that men need to be really cut.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Yo, it's about damn time.

[Adam Clark Estes]

I'm gonna get my body fat percentage, baby.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Yo. 10%?

[Jonathan Hill]

Yes.

[Anahad O'Connor]

If your physique looks like this, then you are what is commonly known as skinny fat.

[Robinhood Sponsor]

You're fatter than you think.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

That is to having bigger muscles and reduced body fat. And you can see this in a Lot of advertising. And particularly if you look back to before testosterone had been chemically synthesized and therefore before it was widely available. The bodybuilders of that era in the 40s, the biggest guys, really wouldn't even rate a second glance nowadays because that was as big as you could get at the time without exogenous steroids. Nowadays, of course, people can become much bigger in terms of muscle mass and much more muscle definition.

[Jonathan Hill]

Everyone wants to know how you get your body to look like this. That was a washboard.

[Anahad O'Connor]

So that requires some sacrifice. You don't get to eat as much as you'd like. You don't get to party as much as you'd like. You get to work out a little more than you'd probably like.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

The widespread availability of testosterone has made it seem normal to have relatively more muscular physique. And you see this particularly in Hollywood when you look at older stars and you think, you know, nobody puts on that kind of muscle mass just by themselves as they age. So it's generally accepted that Hollywood as well as the military, there's definitely a lot of low level use of performance enhancing drugs. Why? Because they work.

[Jonathan Hill]

What are some of the common misconceptions people have about taking them?

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

So initially, when the scientific and medical establishment started looking into the effects of anabolic steroids, they said, no, it's really nothing. It's just water weight and all of the effort. Sure it is. And they kept using because it does work. The real question is, are there downsides that people aren't really talking about? And that's really part of the conversation that I think we need to have when we're looking at steroid use and testosterone replacement therapy, because they do cause changes in blood chemistry and they can cause liver dysfunction. And so there are definitely some health concerns, particularly in susceptible people, that need to be looked at.

[Jonathan Hill]

There's an ongoing debate about hormone optimization clinics and longevity biohacking. From a scientific view, is there any credible evidence that boosting testosterone in healthy adults actually improves the quality of their lives long term?

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

You know, I don't think we really know enough about the long term effects of testosterone replacement therapy, because it's only come into widespread use relatively recently. Does it improve quality of life, though? I would say probably yes in terms of people's sense of energy and their sense of strength, if you will, as well as their libido and perhaps zest for life.

[Jonathan Hill]

If you could advise young athletes or aging adults about these substances, what would you want them to understand before making a decision to take them I don't.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

Think that there's really any reason for young men to take TRT therapy at this point. They are at the peak of their own endogenous testosterone production. So the only reason to take testosterone would be essentially at a level that would be. That would constitute anabolic steroid abuse.

[Jonathan Hill]

In.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

Terms of older men who are experiencing the declining effects of testosterone. Then you say, well, what are the downsides of taking this? One of the key things I think to note is that once you start taking trt, you're actually going to suppress your own endogenous testosterone production further. And that means that you really need to make a commitment to take this long term. So it's really a question of do you want to be taking a pill for the rest of your life or an injection, knowing that in some cases it may have negative effects on your health that don't show up immediately but could end up being problematic down the road?

[Jonathan Hill]

After this next break, we'll talk about something a lot more of us put in our bodies. Supplements.

[Anahad O'Connor]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. When you visit the doctor, you probably hand over your insurance, your ID and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info and if any of them accidentally expose it, you could be at risk for identity theft. Lifelock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply.

[Jonathan Hill]

Megan Rapinoe here this week on A Touch More, we are welcoming a very special guest to the show. She speaks multiple languages, her middle name is literally tough, and I used to dread playing against her on the field. That's right, it's five time Champions League winner Lucy Bronze and now two time Euro winner. Plus, sue and I discuss the bonkers scoring in the W and share our new workout of the week. Check out our latest episode of A Touch More wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. A few weeks ago, producer Hadi Mwagne and I went to explore the great American healthcare craze of supplements and vitamins. Okay, we are now at the Whole Foods. We're gonna see what they got going on. And no, it was not just to check out the hot food bar. Now it's time to hit that hot bar like I said I would. Lunch was a side mission. We were there to see all the many, many varieties of supplements available for sale. I know the aisle we're looking for though.

[Adam Clark Estes]

Which one?

[Jonathan Hill]

The health aisle.

[Adam Clark Estes]

Oh, the whole body, I think, is.

[Jonathan Hill]

What they call it. All right, here we go. Here we go.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Antioxidants, personal care.

[Jonathan Hill]

Oh, man, there are so many pills. Magnesium stress saver, Ashwagandha. It is real. It is real. It's not a drug and powders. We got our proteins and our collagens.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Oh, proteins, collagens. Okay.

[Jonathan Hill]

Which I am a protein user. I do a protein coffee in the morning. So like a college and drinks probiotic wall.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Oh, this is just like a probiotic wall. You're right, a probiotic wall.

[Jonathan Hill]

A pickle kombucha. Oh, pickle booch. I love that.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

Would you get that?

[Anahad O'Connor]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hill]

Okay. I gotta be honest. The pickle booch mixed reviews, all of these supplements, but how many of them do we actually need to find out? I talked to Anahad o'. Connor. He's a health columnist at the Washington Post and he's well acquainted with supplements. He says there's a pretty good chance you are too.

[Anahad O'Connor]

I would say that we are very, very in love with dietary supplements. I mean, the best statistics we have show that at least 60% of people in the United States alone use dietary supplements. And that's just one supplement or more. There are statistics showing that many people use multiple supplements. In fact, the older you are, the more likely you are to be taking two, three, four or more supplements in some cases. There are many people who are taking dozens of supplements, believe it or not.

[Jonathan Hill]

And children, okay, we're taking these products to feel better, but are they actually making us feel better?

[Anahad O'Connor]

You know, there could be the placebo effect where people take supplements and think they're getting benefits. But there's actually been studies by well meaning scientists who have done studies showing that, okay, we know selenium is really good for your health and essential. And vitamin E is really good for your health and it's essential. And scientists will say, okay, well, we need to figure out what doses we should be telling people to take and how often to take these supplements. And they do these studies and in a number of cases, they've done these studies and then found, wow, the people who we assign to take these supplements actually develop side effects and are more likely to develop, you know, cancer or heart disease, prostate cancer, things like that, and have been shocked. You know, in fact, what we know is that it's the dose that makes the poison. We need, you know, some level of vitamins and nutrients, of course, but taking more and more and more is often not good for your health and can cause a lot of side effects.

[Jonathan Hill]

Wow. Yeah. So like, why are we allowed to take them? How come the FDA isn't stepping in?

[Anahad O'Connor]

So, you know, the fda?

[Jonathan Hill]

Do you sound that laugh? I was like, oh, strapped in.

[Anahad O'Connor]

I mean, to put it mildly, dietary supplements are very loosely regulated in this country. They're treated almost like they're just food because they are nutrients that come from food, but then they're purified and concentrated. But decades ago, the supplement industry pushed for this law called the Dietary Supplement Health and Education act, which basically created what many critics call the Wild west of the supplement industry, where supplement makers can make all sorts of health claims. They don't have to undergo clinical trials where they're tested to find out what doses are safe, what the side effects are, you know, if they actually work or not, for what's claimed. And the FDA really can't do anything once they're on the market unless there are reports of severe side effects. But right now, there are an estimated 90,000 different dietary supplements.

[Jonathan Hill]

That's a lot.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Oh, my gosh, that is a heck of a lot. And these companies don't have to register their products at all. And in fact, you and I can easily create our own supplement company in five minutes.

[Jonathan Hill]

Oh, my God.

[Dr. Ruth Wood]

The.

[Jonathan Hill]

Explain it to Me supplement. Don't take that. Do not take that, y'. All.

[Anahad O'Connor]

Yeah, I mean, this is. And this happens. You know, you can just create a website, you know, get some powder, put it in a capsule, and start marketing your supplement. You don't have to register with the fda, you don't have to do any studies or, you know, notify any agency and just start marketing it.

[Jonathan Hill]

Oh, my gosh.

[Anahad O'Connor]

It's that simple. And you can make health claims as well.

[Jonathan Hill]

Okay, I think we should talk about a few of these because I feel like a lot of our listeners want to know if they're taking a supplement that is not actually doing what they think it's going to do. So I want to start with the multivitamin. Should we be taking those daily multivitamins?

[Anahad O'Connor]

If you are eating a healthy diet, then it's very unlikely that you actually need a multivitamin. Although there have been some studies showing benefits. For example, in older adults, it's been shown that taking a daily multivitamin could potentially help with memory loss, for example.

[Jonathan Hill]

Hmm. Okay. Another thing everyone talks about is gut health. People say it can impact you on more than just your stomach. Should we be taking probiotics?

[Anahad O'Connor]

Probiotics are basically any bacteria or microbe that confers health benefits. And, you know, we think, oh, we know probiotics are good for us, they're good for our guts. And so we should be taking them in pill or capsule form. But the thing is that you want a diverse community of gut microbes, you want a healthy ecosystem. But if you take a probiotic in capsule or pill form, that can throw off the balance of your gut microbial ecosystem. And so now you have this overgrowth potentially of a limited number of strains of bacteria. But probiotics are good for you, and you can get them from fermented foods. So you think about things like sauerkraut, kimchi, Greek yogurt, for example, is one of my favorite fermented foods. Humans have been consuming fermented foods for thousands of years, and they contain these healthy live microbes.

[Jonathan Hill]

Okay, what about creatine? Who should be taking this beyond your gym bros who are trying to get buff?

[Anahad O'Connor]

Yeah, so creatine has been around for a while and there have been a lot of studies on its benefits. And there have been studies showing that when you take a creatine supplement in combination with resistance training, going to the gym and lifting weights, then you can get some benefits from that particularly. It'll help you grow bigger and stronger. But the benefits are not extraordinary. You know, it might help you gain a few extra reps, you know, out of your bench press or your, your squat, for example. There's been, you know, a lot of health claims that it can, you know, improve your cognitive health, help with dementia. There hasn't been any real good studies demonstrating that. That's not to say that it's not true, just that it hasn't really been shown conclusively. I am not anti supplement. You know, I still take some supplements here and there. You know, just be cognizant that there is a multi billion dollar industry that wants the profit off of you by selling you their products. And there are a lot of potential side effects. So I always tell people, unless you have a documented demonstrated deficiency, you know, you should be focusing on getting your nutrients and vitamins from your diet just by eating a lot of healthy whole foods, which is what human beings have been doing for millennia and has always worked.

[Jonathan Hill]

This episode was produced by Hadi Mwagdi and was edited by Neren Khan and our executive producer Miranda Kennedy. Fact checking by Melissa Hirsch and engineering by Andrea Christensdotter. Explain it to me is part of the Vox Media Podcast network. To check out other Vox Media podcasts, many of which have won awards, visit podcast.voxmedia.com I'm your host, Jonathan Hill. Thank you so much for listening Bye. Support for Explain it to Me comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea. We only have so many minutes in our day, so when you need to take a minute to breathe, you can do it with a refreshing, revitalizing beverage in hand. Pure Leaf Iced Tea is a real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. So the next time you need to hit the reset button, have a Pure Leaf Iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for Pure Leaf.