"Happy Sixthmas"

Summary

Today, Explained: "Happy Sixthmas" Episode Summary

Release Date: January 6, 2025
Hosts: Sean Rameswaram and Noel King
Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network

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1. Certification of the 2024 Election Results

The episode opens with a significant political event: on January 6th, 2025, Congress convened at 1 PM to certify Donald Trump as the winner of the 2024 presidential election. This certification echoes the controversial session four years prior when the process was derailed by the January 6th insurrection.

Noel King highlights the lingering tensions by stating:

"The president elect has said repeatedly, and he told NBC again last month that he's going to pardon at least some of the insurrectionists." ([00:00])

This declaration has stirred discussions about potential pardons for those involved in the Capitol riot, raising concerns about accountability and justice.

2. Reflections on the January 6th Insurrection

Tess Owen reflects on the long-term impacts of the January 6th events:

"Those people have suffered long and hard and they may be some exceptions to it." ([00:25])

The conversation delves into the presence of extremist groups during the insurrection. Noel King clarifies:

"Antifa was actually not there four years ago, but members of several extremist groups were at the Capitol on January 6th." ([00:42])

The hosts set the stage for an in-depth exploration of American extremism in the context of a potential second Trump administration.

3. Tess Owen’s Investigative Reporting on Extremism

Tess Owen, a freelance journalist for publications like New York Magazine, shares her investigative work on the dynamics within the D.C. jail where January 6th rioters are held. Her piece, "Patriot Inside the Jail block," provides a window into the lives of these detainees.

Key Insights from Tess Owen:

• Daily Life and Community Formation:
  Tess describes the jail environment as resembling a "sleepaway camp," with detainees establishing traditions and rituals to maintain morale. Activities include singing the national anthem nightly, which is broadcasted to their supporters ([04:30]).

• Extremist Groups Within the Jail:
  Notable figures like Enrique Tarrio of the Proud Boys and David Dempsey of the Oath Keepers are mentioned. Dempsey, in particular, receives a 20-year sentence for violent actions during the insurrection ([02:40]).

• Inmate Support Networks:
  The detainees benefit from a robust support system outside, including financial contributions from sympathizers, allowing them better living conditions and the ability to share their narratives ([09:26]).

• Potential Dissolution of the Patriot Wing:
  Recent developments suggest that the specialized unit housing these extremists might be dissolved, leading to their dispersal into the general population. Tess expresses uncertainty about the implications this has for ongoing prosecutions and future arrests ([09:52]).

4. Housing Extremists: Challenges and Decisions

Noel King probes into the rationale behind housing extremist defendants together in the D.C. jail. Tess Owen elaborates on the complexities:

"Officials generally have three options... dispersing defenders carries risks of violence and radicalization, solitary confinement can exacerbate these issues, and concentrating inmates can create incubators for extremist views." ([06:22])

Despite claims by detainees of poor treatment, official inspections revealed that the January 6th inmates were not subjected to the worst conditions found elsewhere in the jail. In some respects, their conditions improved over time, evidenced by the creation of the "DC Gulag" podcast recorded within the facility ([08:19]).

5. Future of Extremist Prosecutions and Pardon Implications

The episode explores the uncertain future of prosecutions against January 6th rioters, especially with the anticipation of a Trump pardon. Tess Owen indicates that the dissolution of the Patriot wing could signal a slowdown in arrests and prosecutions:

"The unit depends on a steady stream of people being arrested... We're expecting the prosecutions to dry up certainly when Trump takes office." ([10:54])

Regarding the detainees' intentions post-release, Tess notes a lack of remorse and a continuation of extremist beliefs:

"There was very little indication that they would leave the movement or that their experiences behind bars had made them change their views." ([11:09])

6. The Evolution of White Nationalism and Mainstream Adoption

Transitioning to broader extremism trends, Ellie Reeve, a CNN correspondent and author of "Black Pill," discusses the infiltration of alt-right ideologies into mainstream conservative politics.

Key Points from Ellie Reeve:

• Mainstreaming of Extremist Ideas:
  Concepts like the "great replacement" theory, initially propagated by the alt-right, have found their way into mainstream conservative rhetoric. Tess Owen elaborates:

  "The idea is that there's something about Western culture... may prevent newcomers from embodying American culture." ([17:30])

• Language and Slang Integration:
  Terms coined within extremist circles, such as "cringe," "cuck," and "incels," have permeated everyday language, indicating the deep-rooted influence of these groups ([17:31]).

• Shift from Online to Real-World Actions:
  Reeve emphasizes the blurring lines between online extremist activities and real-world actions, drawing parallels between the evolution of movements like QAnon and the January 6th insurrection ([16:12]).

• Impact of Social Media Platforms:
  With figures like Elon Musk altering the landscape of platforms like Twitter, extremist groups can now disseminate their ideologies more openly, reducing the anonymity that previously shielded their activities ([16:50]).

7. The Decline and Transformation of the Alt-Right

Ellie Reeve discusses the marginalization of the alt-right following events like the Charlottesville rally:

"Those guys get marginalized. They got kicked off financial services platforms, they kicked off social media platforms... they've just washed out of Politics, for the most part." ([19:52])

However, newer groups like Patriot Front have emerged, adopting less overtly offensive symbols by embracing national flags and Christian imagery instead of more universally condemned symbols like swastikas.

Notable Extremist Groups:

• Patriot Front:
  A white supremacist group known for organizing flash mobs dressed in red, white, and blue, aiming to "Reclaim America" without the overt use of hate symbols ([22:19]).

• Nick Fuentes and Incel Influenced White Nationalism:
  Fuentes propagates anti-feminist and anti-immigration rhetoric, representing a more insular and ideologically rigid segment of white nationalism ([23:26]).

8. The Real-World Consequences of Online Extremism

Noel King and Tess Owen discuss the tangible impacts of online extremist movements, referencing Fred Brennan's creation of 8chan and its role in facilitating platforms like QAnon and mass shootings.

"We need to stop separating the online and the real world. Like, everything that is happening online is real." ([24:12])

The conversation underscores the urgency of addressing online hate speech and extremist content to prevent its real-world manifestations.

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Conclusion

"Happy Sixthmas" delves deep into the persistent issue of American extremism, drawing connections between past events like the January 6th insurrection and the evolving landscape of white nationalism. Through investigative journalism and expert insights, the episode paints a comprehensive picture of the challenges posed by extremist ideologies gaining mainstream traction, the complexities of housing and prosecuting such individuals, and the blurred lines between online rhetoric and real-world actions. As political dynamics continue to shift, the episode underscores the critical need for vigilance and proactive measures to curb the spread and impact of extremist beliefs.

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Notable Quotes:

• Noel King:
  "The president elect has said repeatedly, and he told NBC again last month that he's going to pardon at least some of the insurrectionists." ([00:00])

• Tess Owen:
  "They sang the national anthem every night at 9:00 and this national anthem was broadcast to their thousands of supporters online." ([04:30])

• Ellie Reeve:
  "We need to stop separating the online and the real world. Like, everything that is happening online is real." ([24:12])

• Tess Owen:
  "There's nothing of shame attached to it." ([26:39])

---

Produced by Halima Shah and Peter Balanon Rosen. Edited by Matthew Collette. Additional production by Andrea Christin's daughter and Rob Byers.

Transcript

[Noel King]

It's January 6th, and Congress met today at 1pm to certify Donald Trump as the winner of the 2024 election. Four years ago, you may recall, Congress was meant to do the same, but the certification was delayed when thousands of Trump supporters marched on the Capitol. The president elect has said repeatedly, and he told NBC again last month that he's going to pardon at least some of the insurrectionists.

[Tess Owen]

You know, those people have suffered long.

[Noel King]

And hard and they may be some exceptions to it.

[Ellie Reeve]

I have to look.

[Tess Owen]

But you know, if somebody was radical crazy, there might be some people from Antifa there. I don't know, you know, because those people seem to be in good shape.

[Noel King]

Whatever happened to Scaffold man, you had to be there. Antifa was actually not there four years ago, but members of several extremist groups were at the Capitol on January 6th. And today on explained we're going to ask whither American extremism on the eve of a second Trump administration?

[Tess Owen]

@ Criminal we've made it a tradition every December to dedicate an episode entirely to animals who are really going for it. Matt Virgin, ABOUT police hi, yes, I'm.

Walking from the O'Leary train station to.

My house in North Midsville and a random pig just came up and started following me.

[Noel King]

A pig, you said yet? I'm Phoebe Judge. Listen to this story and more on Criminal Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Halima Shah]

This is TODAY Explained.

[Noel King]

I'm Noel King with Tess Owen. Tess is a freelance journalist who writes for, among others, New York Magazine. Late last year, Tess, Tess wrote a piece for New York, a very vivid piece called the Patriot Inside the Jail block, run by January 6th rioters. Now her story begins, as does ours, in that cell block on the day in July that Donald Trump was shot in the ear by a would be assassin.

[Tess Owen]

Scripps News is the primary news channel available to inmates in that unit. And Scripps News happened to be carrying the event live that day. And there was particular interest in that rally because of rumors that Trump could announce his vp. And when he was shot and collapsed, there was total hysteria.

We are still awaiting an update on what exactly we all just witnessed. But we do know that the former president was rushed off of the stage.

It was described to me that January 6ers, they wept, they clutched each other, they tried to punch walls. They were just completely hysterical. And then, you know, the famous picture image when Trump kind of was hoisted up and he raised his fist, it turned into kind of total jubilation.

You can see his fist there in the air but it appears his ear may be a little bit bloodied, fists.

In the air, trying to flip over tables. Just incredibly intense emotions that were felt in that kind of short span of time. Some of the most notorious people who have gone through that wing, for example, the four Proud Boy leaders who were ultimately convicted of seditious conspiracy. That includes Enrique Tarrio, who is a chairman of the Proud Boys. There are also members of the Oath Keepers. There was David Dempsey. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison. That is in part due to the fact that prosecutors labeled him as one of the most violent rioters on January 6. They said that he basically bludgeoned police officers and engaged in violence for an hour or longer. We spoke pretty regularly over the phone from the quote, patriot wing. And I bit by bit heard about his backstory. You know, he hadn't had a particularly good life. He was abused in group homes growing up and he was homeless for much of his adult life, in and out of prison and, you know, he glommed onto the MAGA movement and took up the cause and that his whole life.

[Noel King]

What did Dempsey and the others tell you about what life is like in the swing of the D.C. jail?

[Tess Owen]

He kind of made it sound like a sleepaway camp almost. You know, they had all of these traditions and rituals that they developed over the course of the years that they were in there that were kind of passed down to new people who came in. They, for example, sang the national anthem every night at 9:00 and this national anthem was broadcast to their thousands of supporters online. The lost bursting in there came through.

Through the night that our flag was still there.

On the anniversary of January 6th, there was a kind of a solemn observation called sixthmas.

[Noel King]

Sixth month.

[Tess Owen]

Sixth month. So they say happy sixthmas. They would hold kind of skits, you know, or variety shows called the Hopium Den. They had all of these different kind of rituals that they would kind of participate in to, they said, you know, keep morale up. But there was also a kind of a deep in group dynamic where, you know, you had to prove that you were not a fed, that you were still, you know, that you believed in the cause, that you were a true believer, a true Trump supporter, to kind of really make it into the core community there.

[Noel King]

All right, so a, a group of men who have engaged in violent behavior, allegedly because they haven't been tried or sentenced yet, who share an anti establishment point of view or ideology, why do D.C. prison officials make the decision that they should all be housed together?

[Tess Owen]

So as far as how this happened, or who made the decision to house these people together? Question was concerned. It was a very frustrating reporting thread that I kept hitting dead ends on. I know I was bounced around between the U.S. marshals, different departments of the DOJ, the D.C. jail, and I was kind of unable to really get an answer from anyone about who or how this decision was made. But what I do know is typically when it comes to housing extremist defendants, officials generally have three options, each, which comes with its own downside. The first option is to disperse those defendants through the general population, which is what's happened with many January6 defendants since they've been convicted and moved to federal prisons. But that option carries two risks. The first is that they could be targeted with violence from other inmates. And I think that was a concern, I believe, that was held or voiced by some officials in the D.C. jail, that these were mostly white Trump supporters in a jail that has a disproportionately black population, and there were concerns that could lead to problems. The second was that that option carries the potential for extremist defendants to radicalize other inmates. The second option for housing those defendants is to place them in solitary confinement. But as we know, there have been countless reports and studies warning that solitary confinement, which has been likened to torture, could exacerbate and accelerate radicalization. The third option is to concentrate these inmates together so that a prison could tailor their resources to their needs. But then you have the flip side, which is that you. You run the risk of creating an incubator for those people's views.

[Noel King]

Was there any evidence, Tess, that these men were treated better or worse than other people in the D.C. jail?

[Tess Owen]

This was a major narrative at the beginning that they. That, you know, people in that unit were claiming that they were experiencing disproportionately bad conditions. That was never substantiated. You know, the D.C. jail and American jails in general are known for being having pretty abysmal conditions. And a judge ordered an inspection of the DC Jail. You know, amid these complaints from January Sixers, and they did find poor conditions in some parts of the jail, not the ones that the January 6ers were being held in. You know, one could perhaps argue that they had quite good conditions in some ways, especially later on. You know, they were able to record a podcast from inside jail without jail officials knowing.

Hello.

[Ellie Reeve]

Welcome to the DC Gulag.

[Tess Owen]

The podcast was called the DC Gulag, which is another name given to the unit.

[Ellie Reeve]

We are here in the Patriot pod with about 30 other J6 detainees. Thank you for tuning in. Hopefully, this.

[Tess Owen]

They have a vast support network outside of family members of January Sixers, of sympathizers who put thousands of dollars into their commissary accounts, help them with their legal funds. And so, you know, they're eating well. They are able to get their voices and their views out. But, you know, it's also, at the same time, it's jail.

[Noel King]

In the past few days, you actually got some information suggesting that the Patriot wing inside the D.C. city jail has dissolved. What did you hear?

[Tess Owen]

Yes, I heard from a lawyer representing some of the January 6ers, as well as kind of rumors percolating online from local activists that the. That the unit is in the process of being dissolved or has been dissolved, and that people in that unit are being moved to general population. I'm not sure if that has gone into effect already or if that's something that is coming, but I do think that it's very interesting in terms of kind of what happens next for these individuals and also the future of the prosecutions, because that unit depends on a steady stream of people being arrested, and it needs people in it. And I think we're expecting the prosecutions to dry up certainly when Trump takes office.

[Noel King]

We don't know for sure whether Donald Trump is gonna pardon these guys, but I wonder what they told you about what they plan to do when they get out. Did anyone say, I wanna stay in this life. I wanna, you know, do more insurrections. What are the plans for these men?

[Tess Owen]

I mean, I spoke to one January Sixer who is beholden to his release conditions, but I spoke to him after. The day after the election. He was telling me that he was shopping online for guns because he feels so confident that Trump will pardon him that he feels like he will be able to own a firearm again very soon. Others, I think there seemed to be very little indication that they would leave the movement or that their experiences behind bars had made them change their views or reevaluate their activities leading up to January 6th. For January 6th, who had already gotten out of prison, most are beholden to their probationary release conditions. Others I spoke to said that they weren't allowed to be in contact with other January 6ers, but, you know, if they're pardoned, that will mean that these men can be in contact with each other completely openly again. And the other thing was that I got very little indication that the people who were facing pretty serious time kind of regretted their actions.

[Noel King]

That was journalist Tess Owen coming up, the extremists who are not in jail.

[Ellie Reeve]

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[Halima Shah]

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[Tess Owen]

The Delete Me reports are incredibly thorough and they also include all of the personal information of yours that is exposed, which I find to be quite helpful. It makes me feel a lot safer online knowing that my information is very secure and not easily accessible.

[Halima Shah]

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[Noel King]

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[Tess Owen]

This is TODAY Explained.

[Noel King]

We're back with Ellie Reeve. Ellie's been reporting on far right extremism for years. She's a correspondent with CNN and author of the book Black Pill. And she was watching to see how extremist groups reacted late last year after Donald Trump was reelected.

[Tess Owen]

The thing that's been most interesting to me is that a lot of the old alt right guys have been complaining that normie conservatives, the MAGA movement, stole all their ideas and they didn't get to be part of, of this, you know, this triumphant Trump movement. They were pushed to the side. And yet Elon Musk is reposting their memes from 10 years ago.

[Noel King]

So they're claiming that alt right ideas have been incorporated into mainstream Republican politics. When did that start? And what do they point to?

[Tess Owen]

An absorption of the great replacement in the alt right. It's the idea that Jews are importing people of color, encouraging them to have children and discouraging white people from having kids in order to maintain control in more normie conservatism. You see, the version of the great replacement is Democrats are importing immigrants to depress white voters. We're replacing national born American, native born Americans to permanently transform the political landscape. Is it really they want to remake.

[Ellie Reeve]

The demographics of America to ensure they're.

[Tess Owen]

That they stay in power forever.

[Halima Shah]

They can't win reelection in 2022 unless they bring in a large number of new voters to replace the voters that are already here. That's what this is about. We have an invasion in this country.

[Tess Owen]

Another thing you saw with the controversy over the Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio and Trump saying that they were eating cats and dogs. There are many people in the sort of MAGA world who said a version of the phrase import the third world become the third world. Now that was like a white nationalist eugenicist talking point 20 years ago, like line for line Donald Trump Jr. Said a version of it.

[Halima Shah]

If you import the third world into your country, you are going to become the third World.

[Tess Owen]

Stephen Miller has said a version of it.

[Halima Shah]

If you import the third world, you become the third World. Simple as that.

[Tess Owen]

The idea is that there's something about Western culture, American culture, that comes in the DNA of white people. And that people who come to America can't just say, you know, they believe in capitalism and freedom and freedom of the press, that there's something within them that prevents them from truly embodying our culture. So alt right is a very useful term in defining this era of white nationalism. That was like 2012, 2014 through about 2018. Richard Spencer coined the term in 2008, but then trolls on 4chan embraced this term and created a whole culture around it. All this slang, slang that is completely embedded. Our language now based cringe, cuck, cuckservative, incels. There's just so much of that language that has become part of the mainstream. It was this rising wave. They got behind Trump when Trump ran for president and really felt like they were growing. They had cultural power. In 2017, they started stepping into the real world, having big brawls with leftists.

[Ellie Reeve]

Oh, bleeding. Yo, yo, yo.

[Tess Owen]

Hey, Maddie. He's bleeding often in California. All of that culminating in these escalating street fights at Charlottesville.

[Noel King]

We begin tonight with that breaking news. A horrific scene in Charlottesville, Virginia.

[Tess Owen]

A white nationalist rally that descended into.

[Noel King]

Deadly violence and chaos.

[Tess Owen]

Charlottesville was supposed to be the capstone on what they called the Summer of Hate. This was the moment they were going to show the world that they were real. They had numbers and they had power. But what came along with that is they were filmed chanting things like, jews will not replace us. So called alt right demonstrators clashing with counter protesters, some swinging torches, will not replace us. At the time, there had been this, like confusion over whether they really meant it. Maybe they were being ironically racist. Maybe the alt right wasn't defined by anti Semit. But once they are all on camera sort of maniacally chanting that, carrying torches, that made the alt right brand poison. So those guys get marginalized. They got kicked off financial services platforms, they kicked off social media platforms, they got sued. There was a federal civil lawsuit called Signs v. Kessler that went to trial in 2021. And the discovery process which revealed how they had organized it, how they had been glib about violence going into Charlottesville, that really crushed all of the people who were named to that lawsuit. And they've just washed out of Politics, for the most part.

[Noel King]

So the intent is clear. What we would like the world to look like in five or ten years is clear. What are you expecting from white nationalists in a second Trump term?

[Tess Owen]

So in a way they won, right? In a way, like you don't need this menacing outside force, like trolling mainstream conservatism into believing what they want, because now they believe it like they've won. It's pro Russia, like Roe v. Wade has fallen. Like Richard Spencer used to talk about peaceful ethnic cleansing. That was the number one thing people said to point to, like, what a monster he was. Now Trump has floated deporting as many as 20 million people. Right. Like all that stuff has gone mainstream. So there's two main figures that I see as having some numbers and some strength.

31 members of the Patriot Front were found in the back of a U haul and arrested for conspiracy to riot at a quarter.

[Halima Shah]

I'm here with Thomas Russo from notorious Patriot Front.

[Tess Owen]

Patriot Front, a white supremacist group. They organize flash mobs.

Exactly.

Experts say these people are members of the white nationalist group Patriot front, founded.

[Noel King]

In 2017 after breaking off from the group that led the deadly Unite the.

[Tess Owen]

Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

A downtown march with Patriot Front flags and a banner that read Reclaim America. So they have these unannounced surprise, like 20 minute little demonstrations where they all wear the same outfit. They're dressed in red, white and blue. They've wrapped themselves in the flag. Right. They learned from Charlottesville associating themselves with swastikas and Hitler and all that. That's weird and creepy. Instead you wrap yourself in the flag and in Christianity. The other figure I watch is Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes went viral for saying, your body, our choice.

[Halima Shah]

You will never control your own bodies. You will never be the president of the global empire.

[Noel King]

Never gonna happen, sweetie. Your body, our choice.

[Tess Owen]

Absolute celebration of a rollback of women's rights. He's part of the sort of incel influenced section of white nationalism.

[Noel King]

Let me ask you a serious question that will get me in a ton of trouble. Okay, so you've got men in flash mobs wearing outfits, embracing Christianity only a couple hundred at a time. You've got Nick Fue. Like again, if I'm not online, like, I don't think my mom knows who Nick Fuentes is. And one thing I worry, I know she doesn't know who he is. As a matter of fact, one thing I wonder is like, are we over worried about these guys?

[Tess Owen]

I think is a fantastic question.

[Noel King]

Thank you.

[Tess Owen]

Ellie, that is a fantastic. I think about that all the time. But my first reaction is to go back to what something Fred Brennan said. Fred Brennan, he created 8chan that became the platform for mass shooters to post their manifestos. It became the platform for QAnon. He eventually realized he'd created a monster and set about trying to destroy it. And what he says is, we need to stop separating the online and the real world. Like, everything that is happening online is real, and it is happening in the real world. Like, sometimes there's different laws of physics that apply, but. But this stuff is real. So for QAnon, for example, it was like a curiosity. It was bizarre. It was outrageous. I was once on a beach and saw these people nude, sunbathing, painting a big letter Q on a boulder. I thought, oh, that's so ridiculous. But only a few years later, like, I'm at January 6th while they're storming the Capitol, right? Like, yeah. So it's very easy online to misrepresent your numbers, to misrepresent who you are, to seem much bigger than you actually are. But on the other hand, it is this very powerful tool for showing what ideas can become powerful. So the first person I ever heard about Drag Queen Story Hour from was a teenage fascist troll in 2017, huh? Yeah. And this becomes a huge issue starting in 2022 in the mainstream. Same thing with critical race theory, Right? Again, I didn't hear anyone talking about critical race theory except for this person on 4chan until that one was a lot quicker. That was like, six months. Suddenly, it was everywhere. It's like, you know, on a website, you do ab testing of a headline to see what sticks. Like, 4chan is that. But this is a much more powerful level now that Elon Musk has taken over Twitter. There's not a sense that you have to be anonymous to promote these ideas. So a lot of these people are saying it with their real name on Twitter. These kinds of ideas are able to get mainstream adoption more quickly now because there's less shame attached to it.

[Noel King]

Ellie Reeve of CNN is author of Black Pill. Halima Shah and Peter Balanon Rosen produced today's episode. Matthew Collette is our editor, Andrea Christin's daughter, and Rob Byers are our engineers. And I'm Noel King. It's Today Explained.