Hasan Piker explains himself

Summary

Today, Explained: Hasan Piker Explains Himself – Episode Summary

Release Date: April 1, 2025
Host: Sean Ramaswar
Guest: Hasan Piker
Podcast Network: Vox Media Podcast Network

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1. Introduction to Hasan Piker

The episode begins with Sean Ramaswar introducing Hasan Piker, positioning him as a prominent leftist voice in the digital space. Hasan is recognized for his active presence on platforms like Twitch, YouTube, and TikTok, where he engages millions of young viewers daily.

Notable Quote:

• [00:20] Hasan Piker: "Hasan Piker is really the only major prominent leftist on Twitch, at least the only one who talks about politics all day."

2. Hasan's Role and Influence

Sean highlights the Democratic Party's interest in Hasan, seeking his endorsement due to his substantial reach among younger demographics. Hasan himself reflects on his role as a political commentator, describing his content as "talk radio that's always on" tailored for a zoomer and millennial audience.

Notable Quotes:

• [04:16] Hasan Piker: "I think a lot of people see me as talk radio that's always on, but with a zoomer slash millennial focus rather than, rather than anything else."
• [04:56] Sean Ramaswar: "And the guy they're getting their news from has some strong political opinions, beliefs and he talks about them often, but not exclusively."

3. Political Ideology and Critique of the Democratic Party

Hasan identifies himself as a leftist and anti-imperialist, advocating for reduced military spending and increased investment in social infrastructure. He criticizes the Democratic Party for aligning with right-wing policies and failing to adequately oppose the growing rightward shift in the country.

Notable Quotes:

• [05:10] Hasan Piker: "I am anti war. I believe that we should not spend so much money on 800 military bases overseas..."
• [06:19] Hasan Piker: "I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a Democrat. I mean, it is a duopoly. They're the only game in town."
• [06:39] Hasan Piker: "The Republicans... pushing for incredibly unfavorable and unpopular policies. And look where they're at now."

4. The Democratic Tent and Party Dynamics

The discussion delves into whether the Democratic Party's broad tent dilutes its effectiveness. Hasan argues that while the party has expanded its base, it often regurgitates neoconservative policies, failing to embrace more radical leftist ideas that could better resonate with the working class.

Notable Quotes:

• [09:01] Hasan Piker: "Dick Cheney can say he wants to vote for the Democratic Party. The Democrats should probably say, yeah, we don't care."
• [11:26] Hasan Piker: "Some of these Democrats... are too soft. Like Bernie is way too soft."

5. Engaging Young Audiences and Addressing Their Concerns

Hasan speaks about the disenchantment among young people (ages 18-35), highlighting their feelings of hopelessness regarding economic prospects and societal stability. He emphasizes the need for revolutionary optimism and collective action to empower this demographic.

Notable Quotes:

• [13:34] Hasan Piker: "A lot of young people are devoid of hope. They recognize that they probably will never retire..."
• [14:38] Hasan Piker: "I tell them to not feel, not cave to nihilism and to maintain revolutionary optimism."

6. Self-Improvement and Persona

The conversation shifts to personal development, with Sean playfully addressing Hasan's muscular physique. Hasan clarifies that self-improvement, for him, is about continual growth rather than achieving a final stage of self-actualization. He underscores the importance of balancing personal betterment with community engagement.

Notable Quotes:

• [19:09] Hasan Piker: "Self improvement doesn't mean, like, reaching a final stage or anything."
• [23:04] Hasan Piker: "I'm not like, doing deliberate gym content specifically because, like, I want to penetrate like the Alpha bro fitness space."

7. The Right's Appeal to Young Men and Counteracting It

Hasan analyzes why right-wing narratives, which often provide simplistic solutions and affirm existing beliefs, are effective in attracting young men. He attributes this to the right's manipulation of hopelessness into anger and dominance, contrasting it with his vision for a more inclusive and empowering leftist messaging.

Notable Quotes:

• [20:14] Hasan Piker: "He is a monster. And, and also deeply, deeply disliked."
• [20:56] Hasan Piker: "Self improvement can turn into hyper individualism very quickly, which is also another incredibly American attitude in general."

8. Sources of Hope and Future Outlook

Despite recognizing pervasive challenges, Hasan expresses hope through the momentum gained by figures like AOC and Bernie Sanders. He advocates for the Democratic Party to abandon neoliberal agendas and embrace more genuine, grassroots-driven policies that resonate with the working class.

Notable Quotes:

• [26:44] Hasan Piker: "The momentum that I've seen from AOC and Bernie Sanders... is somewhat positive."
• [29:45] Hasan Piker: "I love yapping, so. It's all I do."

9. Conclusion

Sean wraps up the episode by acknowledging Hasan's busy schedule and expressing appreciation for his insights. The episode concludes with a recap of Hasan's online personas and final remarks from the host.

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Key Takeaways

• Hasan Piker's Influence: As a leading leftist voice online, Hasan plays a crucial role in shaping political discourse among young audiences.
• Critique of the Democratic Party: Hasan advocates for a departure from neoliberal policies and urges the party to adopt more radical, working-class-focused strategies.
• Engaging the Youth: Addressing the economic and social anxieties of young people is paramount, with an emphasis on collective action and revolutionary optimism.
• Counteracting Right-Wing Narratives: Providing empowering and inclusive messaging is essential to compete with the right's effective appeal to young men.
• Path Forward: Building on the momentum of progressive leaders and fostering genuine grassroots initiatives can pave the way for substantial political change.

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This episode offers a comprehensive look into Hasan Piker's perspectives on politics, party dynamics, and strategies to engage and empower the younger generation amidst a shifting political landscape.

Transcript

[Sean Ramaswar]

Last week we at Today Explained brought you an episode titled the Joe Rogan of the Left. The Joe Rogan of the left was in quotations. It was mostly about a guy named Hasan Piker who some say is the Joe Rogan of the left. But enough about Joe. We made an episode about Hasan because the Democrats are really courting this dude.

[Hasan Piker]

So Hasan Piker is really the only major prominent leftist on Twitch, at least the only one who talks about politics all day. What's going on, everybody? I hope everyone's having a fantastic evening, afternoon, pre noon, no matter where.

[Sean Ramaswar]

They want his cosign, they want his endorsement because he's young and he reaches millions of young people streaming on YouTube, TikTok and especially Twitch. But last week he was streaming us.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, I was, I was listening on stream and you guys were like, hey, you should come on the show if you're listening. I was like, oops, God, you're a listener. Yeah. Oh yeah, I am. Yeah.

[Sean Ramaswar]

Thank you for listening, Hasan Piker. Coming up on the show today, Thumbtack.

[Peter Kafka]

Presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out procrastination, putting it off, kicking the can down the road in plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out carpet in the bathroom. Like why in knowing what to do, when to do it and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download thumbtack today. Hey there. This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, a podcast about tech and media and what happens when they collide. And this week we're talking about the symbiosis, the codependency between big time sports and big TV and what's going to happen to that equation as the TV industry gets smaller and smaller and smaller. On to explain it all is the veteran sports business journalist John Arand. That's this week on channels from the Vox Media podcast network.

[Sean Ramaswar]

Hello, I have something huge I wanted to tell you. My name is Sean Ramasvoor. I'm. I host today Explained along with Noel King. You know us, we have seen, we have heard the comments about the ads. You don't love the ads or there's too many ads? Well, this one's for you guys. This ad is to tell you you can now get this show without ads. I repeat, we now have an ad free version of Today Explained. If you would like it in your Life, go to Vox.com members right now. Vox.com members, you're going to support Vox. We're going to give you the show without ads. Enjoy.

[Hasan Piker]

This is TODAY Explained I'm Hasan Piker, also known as Hasanabi Online. I go by many names, Hassan the Hun on Twitter, Hassan d. Piker on TikTok, but Hasanabi primarily on Twitch. I'm live on Twitch every day from 11am Pacific Time, usually around 7pm to 8pm Pacific Time. Every single day, seven days a week, no matter where I am around the world I try to hit that same time frame. And yeah, I'm a political commentator. People call me many different things, radical, sometimes even a terrorism lover, just, you know, slander to, to I think, designations that I would not see fit for myself such as like activist, organizer or even journalist.

[Sean Ramaswar]

Really you are doing a lot of stuff and spending an enormous part of your day making yourself available to people on live streams, on social media. What do you think? Like, what's your sense of what people come to you for?

[Hasan Piker]

I think a lot of people see me as talk radio that's always on, but with a zoomer slash millennial focus rather than, rather than anything else. Like it's just, it's, it's not that unique. I'm not like necessarily reinventing the wheel here. I think it's just like a, a guy that you can have in the background while you're doing your chores and you stay up to date. Maybe also share in the feeling of catharsis or anger that you feel as well, that is being channeled from. Channeled by the guy that you're getting your news from.

[Sean Ramaswar]

And the guy they're getting their news from has some strong political opinions, beliefs and he talks about them often, but not exclusively.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Sean Ramaswar]

What would you say are your politics, how would you describe them?

[Hasan Piker]

I mean I call myself a leftist, definitely an anti imperialist. I think I am. I mean I'm anti war. I believe that we should not spend so much money on 800 military bases overseas and constantly bombing some of the poorest countries on the planet. And we should instead spend it on infrastructure, jobs, programs and expansion of the welfare state with the ultimate goal of creating a new way of organizing our economy and our society in general. An evolution from the existing form that is more egalitarian and has more benefits for as many people as possible. Because I think we're the wealthiest country on the planet. Um, we have, we are in the post abundance universe. And I don't mean that in an Ezra Klein way. I mean like we literally have a surplus of food supply. For example, like 10 million people should not be dying due to famine related diseases around the globe at this point. It's a, it's a matter of supply chains. Like, it's a matter of not wanting to feed people.

[Sean Ramaswar]

But saying that right now, saying that in, in 2025, when the federal government, the Trump administration right now, is cutting back aid to some of the poorest people on earth, that's like in a left right question, do you consider yourself as a leftist, a Democrat?

[Hasan Piker]

No, I don't consider myself a Democrat. I think just like Bernie Sanders says, he finds himself coxing with the Democrats quite frequently because that's the only game in town. But I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a Democrat. I mean, it is a duopoly. They're the only game in town. They're the only counterbalance towards the growing rightward shift in this country. And I oftentimes find myself at odds with the Democrats because I feel that they also make way for this growing rightward shift in this country rather than oppose it, whether it be under the Trump administration, as we've seen so far with Chuck Schumer refusing to fight back against the quote, unquote, clean continued resolution bill, and maybe even pushing for a government shutdown in an effort to use the only minority party power position that they have, or whether it be completely caving and capitulating to right wing framing when the Democrats were in charge, when it came down to accelerating America's foreign policy, like the continuation of the Abraham Accords from the Trump administration, refusing to go back to the table with Iran, which was Obama's signature foreign policy accomplishment, that Biden did not, did not revert back to when he came into power, or most significantly, I think the rhetoric around immigration and immigrant crime, a concept that is entirely made up. This isn't to say that immigrants are not, you know, immigrants are never doing any crimes. Of course, everyone does crime. But when you look at the data, immigrants are responsible for a far smaller share, both in per capita and also in totality of crime than natural born US Citizens are. So the notion that, like undocumented migrants are doing tens of thousands of murders a year in the way that Trump has suggested is ridiculous. It's just completely made up. And the fact that the Democrats did not actually actively combat this very dangerous, very right wing, very scary narrative that was built around lying was very frustrating for someone like myself.

[Sean Ramaswar]

You make sense in that tent, which is, as you've heard a million times, a very big tent with Dick Cheney, all the way to aoc, all the way to you. Do you think that tent has grown too big? And that might be part of the problem. The party's having right now.

[Hasan Piker]

No, I think that there's a difference between, like, growing your tent and then I guess, like, what kind of, like what kind of message you're putting out. Because the Democrats didn't really need to do too much to get Liz Cheney on board because they were basically regurgitating neocon policies in general. Right. Both Biden and also Kamala Harris with her interest in continuing, like, the Biden agenda. So they didn't, like, you don't really need to court Dick Cheney in that regard. He just came on board because it makes sense. You're following, you know, you're following his dreams and his agenda to begin with, especially in terms of foreign policy. Um, what I want is for the Democrats to actually expand its tent to the American working class. I don't care about Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney can say he wants to vote for the Democratic Party. The Democrats should probably say, yeah, we don't care. Fuck you, you're a terrorist or you're a war criminal. Your hands are bloody. Of course they're not going to say that. But actually, Dick Cheney is the one person that you could probably say that about. And like, most people would be like, yeah, that's fine. Like, even. You might not even be able to get away with that with like gw, but you could get away with that with Dick Cheney. Like, he is a. He is a monster. And, and also deeply, deeply disliked. Like, there is no constituency for this man. Just like there's no constituency for Liz Cheney. Like the, the. They just tried to make it happen. They tried to make fetch happen with Liz Cheney so hard when they're just like, yeah, no, see, you know, the country's over party. That's what we're doing. You know, me and Liz Cheney hand in hand. And it's just like, doesn't make any sense because no one is a Liz Cheney head. Yeah, like, even the MSNBC watchers are like, I guess this is good because someone else might like it. That's always the marketing for the Democrats. Someone else is going to like this, I promise.

[Sean Ramaswar]

I asked, I asked Tim Walls how many votes he thought Liz Cheney won the Democrats or won Kamala Harris. And he, he dodged the question.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, I wish Tim was a little bit more of a fighter. That's the problem with a lot of these, A lot of these Democrats who I think are like, much better politicians in general than the ones that get highlighted. The fighters are so technocratic and so invested in this third way neoliberalism agenda. Like, they're zealots. But then the actual good, like left populist or left populist adjacent Democratic Party politicians are unfortunately too soft. Like Bernie. Bernie is way too soft. I love him. I have so much respect for him. But this was my criticism of him in both 2016 and 2020. It's just like he was way too soft. He loved. Well, in 2020. He also loves Joe Biden personally. That's another issue.

[Sean Ramaswar]

But soft how? Like, like, how do you. How do you mean? You think his policies aren't hard?

[Hasan Piker]

No, no, no, no. That, that more his policies. I mean, yeah, his policies are great. I think for the time. They are, you know, fairly normal demands that every American would agree to. It's just that, you know, the entire media apparatus, and I would say that the, the party apparatus considers it to be like a Maoist Third World disposition or something. When they're like, hey, can we get like social democracy Nordic style? And they're like, you. You want to kill every landlord? I think, like, it's insane the way they treat the most basic stuff that every other competent OECD nation offers unconditionally to all of all their citizens. But no, I meant he needs to be more of a fighter as, like, he needs to be more adversarial with the media. He needs to be more adversarial with, with. With other establishment Democrats in a way that's not dissimilar to. In a way that's not dissimilar to Donald Trump.

[Sean Ramaswar]

You have a lot of young people, 18 to 35, watching you, streaming you, engaging with you. What do you think their politics are?

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, it depends. It's a broad variety. But I would say that a lot of young people are devoid of hope. They recognize that they probably will never retire, they will never be able to own a home, and that most of their salary, if they're lucky enough to get a job that they hate regardless, is going to go back to their rent. And these are the issues that are, I think, creating incredible amounts of pressure and pain in the minds of a lot of young people in this country. They just don't feel hopeful. And I understand it. I mean, how could you, how could you feel hopeful when looking around at your prospects and you're like, shit looks dire?

[Sean Ramaswar]

And what do you say to them?

[Hasan Piker]

I tell them to not feel, not cave to nihilism and to maintain revolutionary optimism and to remind themselves that there are things that are in their control. Self improvement, being one of those things, and that. And that they should remember that their cause is just and their demands are perfectly rational and that they should continue trying to marginally improve both their personal standing but also organize in their communities and unionize in their workplaces so that they can they can see some immediate benefits to that through collective bargaining.

[Sean Ramaswar]

Hasan will return to tell us more about self improvement in a minute. On Today Explained.

[Laura Bullard]

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[Sean Ramaswar]

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[Laura Bullard]

If you've been online this week, you've probably seen an unending flood of those beautiful animated, studio Ghibli style images of everything from happy families being together to beloved cartoon characters committing unspeakable acts of violence against each other. That, my friends, is the AI world we live in. And it's not going to get less complicated that is what we are talking about this week on the Vergecast. Along with the future of robot vacuums, what's happening with car tariffs and everything else going on in the AI world. All that on the Vergecast. Wherever you get podcasts.

[Sean Ramaswar]

Today, Explain is back with Hasan Piker. If you've never seen him, he is jacked. And we don't usually ask our guests about their appearance, but we kind of felt like we had to with Hasan because it's a big part of his Persona. So here we go. You're like a bigger dude. I'm like, I'm like a skinny dude. Do, like, do you look at me and be like, why is this guy self improving more? Why isn't he fully actualized himself?

[Hasan Piker]

No, not at all. I mean, first of all, self improvement doesn't mean, like, reaching a final stage or anything. It means, like, improving yourself in both invisible and visible ways and bettering yourself from where you were the day prior. It has nothing to do with, like, where you have gotten to. I mean, it's great. It's definitely fantastic for your confidence if you do improve yourself and then you start seeing those benefits. But, you know, it has nothing to do with, like, the way you look right now. There's nothing wrong with the way you look. You look great.

[Sean Ramaswar]

Thank you so much.

[Hasan Piker]

You're very handsome.

[Sean Ramaswar]

You look great too. You're very handsome as well. What's your protein intake? Is there a lot of protein going on?

[Hasan Piker]

Yes, I consume about 200 at a minimum, 220 grams of protein every day.

[Sean Ramaswar]

Amazing.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, I mean, it's all right. I eat a lot of chicken. I love chicken, so it's fine. Just straight white chicken breasts every day.

[Sean Ramaswar]

How much do you feel like being kind of yoked is, like, part of your draw and your Persona?

[Hasan Piker]

I think it. I think initially in leftist circles, it's a negative. People look at me and immediately assume that I am a right wing dude. I mean, at this point, it's like, hard to say that because obviously most people know what my politics are, but if you don't know who I am from afar, you think like, oh, that's like a alpha bro, potentially right wing kind of guy.

[Sean Ramaswar]

What is your read on why this male optimization getting, you know, really beefed up has, like a left, right divide. And what is that divide about?

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, I think there's. There's a bunch of different reasons for it, but I mean, I think like, a lot of these guys, they don't think too hard about politics and then they find themselves trapped in this right wing bubble. And then I think that they, they just like associate that with, they associate like self improvement and self help with that in general. It's not. Self help inherently is not like a, like a leftist or a right wing thing, I don't think. But, but it does seem like a lot of the content creators that are promoting that and presenting themselves as that are definitely the very least right wing. But I, I think part of it is because that's just the domineering attitude in general. If you don't really think about things too much and you just, you kind of find yourself susceptible to social conditioning. And that does have a right wing slant. You know, the whole common sense narrative, it's like, oh, this is just common sense. I don't understand two genders common sense. Like, you didn't put a lot of thought into it. That's just what you learned your entire life. So of course, like, you know, you kind of slot yourself into the right wing in that regard. I guess the other reason is because self improvement can turn into hyper individualism very quickly, which is also another incredibly American attitude in general. But like, that's what it is. Those are the two main factors, I think.

[Sean Ramaswar]

And you try to couple self improvement with helping others, which feels really critical in this moment where a lot of people feel lost, but, but that leads to them becoming more inward, introverted, even angry. How do you feel like you're faring in that battle right now to not just improve yourself inside and out, but to be more considerate of those around you?

[Hasan Piker]

I don't know. I mean, I'm just, I'm a stubborn dude. And I also am not like, you know, doing deliberate gym content specifically because, like, I want to penetrate like the Alpha bro fitness space. It's just like something that I have always liked to do organically. And, you know, the content creators that I watch from that space are people that I end up collaborating with or have at least like some, some mutual interests with, like, mutual shared interest with. So that's what it is. It's not, it's not me just being like, oh, if I work out and like present myself as this guy, then, you know, more Alpha bros will listen to me because a lot of people, a lot of people will still. Especially something I've seen online is that like, people would rather hear your output and then make up their minds rather than like, look at you or genuinely understand whether you care about certain things or not. Like, they. There's this phenomenon online where like, Ben Shapiro says that the masculine Things. So he's more masculine than someone like myself. I'm soy. I'm gay. I'm lame. Because I think you shouldn't be mean to trans people. Ben, on the other hand, is mean to trans people, and that means you're alpha. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about? He's like five foot, you know, I think that the reason why the right is so successful at capturing the attention of young men in particular is because they are at the. They're taking a lot of the worst aspects of the hopelessness that I was just talking about that everyone in the next generation is experiencing. And right wing commentary is like a warm blanket that you can surround yourself with that says you're right to be angry. And you should be angry at vulnerable populations. You should be angry at people who have no power over you. And then if you dominate them a little bit, then that gives you a little bit of power. Right. It's a. It reminds me of the. Was it the LBJ quote about, you know, telling the. The lowest white man that he is higher than. Than any black man?

[Sean Ramaswar]

If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on and he'll empty his pockets for you.

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, we see different versions of that even today. More evolved version of that with, like, dei people will be like, bill Burr's wife is a DEI wife. And I'm like, what do you. What do you mean by that? DEI wife is because she's black woman. Is that why you're saying DEI wife?

[Sean Ramaswar]

Yeah, he seems to really love her. But I think what you're getting at here is the vision that the right is selling to young men is very compelling because it doesn't necessarily involve growth or progress. It just affirms what they already believe, or maybe what their fathers and their fathers before them believed. But you seem to do something special, which is you create an alternate vision for young men, for young people. And it bummed me out a little bit when you said the vibe that you get from most young people is that they're losing hope, because that's a shitty place to be when you're young. What keeps you hopeful?

[Hasan Piker]

The one area of hope that I have right now is the momentum that I've seen from AOC and Bernie Sanders, who are going out and speaking in front of tens of thousands of people. People that may have not even voted for Bernie Sanders in the primaries. Right. Like people from all different walks of life that are, you know, both Democrats and maybe even some not Democrats coming together and being like, yeah, everything is messed up. We need to do something about it. So there's definitely a lot of interest, I think, right now amongst the American working class to change things. Some people have associated that change with Donald Trump. I find that kind of change to be worse because I think Donald Trump is further breaking the system that was broken previously, prior to this. But the fact that some people recognize that there must be a different. There must be a different mechanism for change, and they find Bernie to be a vehicle for that is somewhat positive. But it entirely depends on where it goes from here. Does the Democratic Party turn around and go, ok, we got to do that? Enough with this, you know, third way neoliberalism. Enough with the. With the zealotry that we've demonstrated. Constantly talking about true, true market centrism hasn't been tried. You know, true neoliberalism hasn't been tried yet. It will happen one day. We will unleash the markets and we will free the people. It will be amazing. True neoliberalism cannot fail. It can only be failed. Like, this kind of attitude is ridiculous. And I think it's academic, it's smug, it's elitist, and it's wrong. It's demonstrably wrong. And I think people don't want to hear it anymore. So I hope the Democratic Party recognizes that. And then more and more people run for office and say, nah, I don't want corporate donations. I'm done with the billionaires and millionaires. I'm done with you. I'm done with the rest of the Democratic Party. I'm gonna be a Democrat, but I'm done with the Democratic Party. That's what Republicans did over the course of many, many years as well. And they feared their base. They did not worry about the potential political repercussions of pushing for incredibly unfavorable and unpopular policies. And look where they're at now. They got rewarded consistently time and time again for at least doing something like that's the attitude that many Americans have. They're just like, yeah, everything is messed up. At least this guy wants to, you know, break the system. And I don't really like the system anyway. I don't like the institutions anyway. What have they done for me? So let's test this out.

[Sean Ramaswar]

Hasan Piker, I know you're a very busy man. I know you got, like, eight hours of streaming right ahead of you. Thank you for sitting down with us. Before you got started.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, it's no problem. I love yapping, so. It's all I do.

[Sean Ramaswar]

I can tell. I appreciate it.

[Hasan Piker]

All right. Have a good night.

[Sean Ramaswar]

I mean, all the best to you. Take care. Hasan Piker. Hasan the Hun on Twitter. Hasan Dpiker on TikTok. Hasanabi on Twitch and YouTube. Not a difficult person to find online. Producer Milos made the show today. Miles Bryant is his government name. Laura Bullard coasted. Andre Christensdottir and Patrick Boyd mixed. Amna Al Saadi edited with a little help from Miranda Kennedy. I'm Miranda Kennedy, and this is Today Sa.