“Having kids was a mistake”

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Having kids was a mistake”

Podcast: Today, Explained (Vox)
Date: April 24, 2026
Hosts: Sean Rameswaram, Noel King
Guests: Bindu Bansinath (The Cut/New York Magazine), Jennifer Senior (The Atlantic)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the taboo topic of parental regret—specifically, the stories of parents who feel that having children was a mistake. It explores why some parents feel regret, the social stigma surrounding these feelings, and how changing social, economic, and cultural conditions shape expectations and experiences of parenthood. The show also considers broader societal trends like declining birth rates and increasing childlessness, and features expert insight on how our culture and expectations might be overcomplicating (and burdening) the parental experience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Reflections on Parenting & Regret

• Sean Rameswaram shares his conflicted thoughts about parenthood, recalling his surprise when a friend expressed certainty about wanting children at age 25.
• U.S. birth rates continue to drop; more people are choosing not to have kids, and a subset of parents openly regret their decision, though this remains taboo.
  Timestamps: 00:00–02:04

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2. Bindu Bansinath's Reporting on 'Regretful Parents'

• Bindu explores the underdiscussed phenomenon of parental regret, discovered largely via the “Regretful Parents” subreddit.
• She interviews three mothers, each with different stories but united by a sense of isolation and disappointment with motherhood.
  Timestamps: 02:07–11:42

A. Case Study 1: Northeast U.S. Mom, Nonprofit Executive

• Pressure from spouse and societal norms led her into motherhood.
• Postpartum depression was dismissed by her doctor (“Well, you don't feel like throwing your baby out the window, right?”—Doctor via Bindu, 05:07).
• Misses intellectual stimulation and freedom from pre-parent life; feels life became narrower.
  • Memorable Quote:

    “Having a kid turns you into a morning person the way being chased by a bear turns you into a runner.” —Anonymous Mom (05:38)

B. Case Study 2: Southern Europe Mom, Formerly Sheltered

• Married young; pressured by husband and relatives to have a child.
• Promised support (“the village”) did not materialize postpartum; career on hold, burden mostly hers.
• Felt “tricked into this”; yearns for alternate, childfree life.
  • Memorable Quotes:

    “It felt like I'd been tricked into this. Everyone who wanted me to have a child...knew they weren't going to lose much while my freedom and identity went down the toilet.” —Anonymous Mom (07:28)
    “It’s like my future is over now, with nowhere else to go, while my daughter's is about to begin. It's an ugly feeling.” —Anonymous Mom (08:56)

C. Case Study 3: North Carolina Dog Trainer

• Unexpected pregnancy at 25, pressure from family and friends to continue.
• Felt she lost personal identity; efforts to express struggle dismissed as “normal” motherhood.
• Ultimately chooses separation so child can be raised by father; wishes she’d listened to her instincts.
  • Memorable Quotes:

    “I felt like I'd disappeared as a human being. Clients called me mama...I was stuck inside a role not meant for me.” —Anonymous Mom (09:56–10:38)
    “I can't live this life with him anymore. I'm not the parent my son needs...I can only fake it so much.” —Anonymous Mom (11:20)

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3. How Widespread is Parental Regret?

• Only limited research; one study cited 5–14% of parents experience these feelings, but stigma and survey difficulty may lower reported rates.
• Bindu herself admits this reporting makes her more cautious as she considers parenthood.
  Timestamps: 11:42–13:03

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4. Expert Context: Jennifer Senior on the Paradox of Modern Parenting

• Jennifer Senior, author of All Joy and No Fun, shares her perspective as both writer and parent.

• Points out that all three mothers in the feature had very young children, saying the early years (0–3) are universally the most difficult and can color perceptions of parenthood.

• Emphasizes the lack of robust support and childcare options, which exacerbates stress and regret.

  “From zero to three, those are the toughest years...sleep deprivation is a confound...it’s hard, it’s boring. There’s just so much—or so little and so much—that’s going on at the same time.” —Jennifer Senior (17:29)

• Adult children and grandparenting can bring rewards later, even if the earliest years are hardest.

• The interview moves into historical context for changing parental roles:

  • Previously, children were economic contributors (working on family farms, factories); now they are “economically worthless and emotionally priceless.”

    “They became economically worthless and emotionally priceless.” —Jennifer Senior quoting Viviana Zelizer (21:12)

• Modern parents are expected to cultivate, hover, and enrich children, putting immense stress on themselves with little evidence this benefits kids—Jennifer calls for a more relaxed, less intense approach.

  • Memorable Exchange:

    “I think kids would be fine if we did less. And yes, I think we’re overdoing it in the sense that it’s coming at the cost of our mental health.” —Jennifer Senior (22:17)

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5. Meaning & Joy in Parenting: Why Do It?

• Jennifer sees meaning, rather than day-to-day happiness, as the primary reward of parenting.

• She encourages parents to resist cultural pressure to “optimize” every minute and warns against guilt around outsourcing care.

  “If you find a childcare provider you trust...you’re not screwing up your kid by handing your child to a babysitter. It’s okay.” —Jennifer Senior (24:33)

• The best reason to have children isn’t for legacy or gene perpetuation, but for the opportunity to love someone else and to add meaning to one’s life.

  “There’s an opportunity to love someone else and to not privilege your own self... It’s nice to not think about yourself.” —Jennifer Senior (26:28)

• Jennifer also makes clear she doesn’t feel people should have children if they feel opposed:

  “If [my son] came to me and said, ‘Mom, I don’t want kids,’ oh, I would get it, and I wouldn’t. My heart would not break.” —Jennifer Senior (25:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |------------|----------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:38 | Anonymous Mom | “Having a kid turns you into a morning person the way being chased by a bear turns you into a runner.” | | 07:28 | Anonymous Mom | “It felt like I'd been tricked into this. Everyone...knew they weren't going to lose much while my freedom and identity went down the toilet.” | | 08:56 | Anonymous Mom | “It’s like my future is over now, with nowhere else to go, while my daughter's is about to begin. It’s an ugly feeling.” | | 09:56 | Anonymous Mom | “I felt like I'd disappeared as a human being. Clients called me mama...” | | 11:20 | Anonymous Mom | “I can’t live this life with him anymore. I’m not the parent my son needs...I can only fake it so much.” | | 17:29 | Jennifer Senior | “From zero to three, those are the toughest years... ‘parenthood lasts until you die’…” | | 21:12 | Jennifer Senior | “They became economically worthless and emotionally priceless.” (Quoting Zelizer) | | 22:17 | Jennifer Senior | “I think kids would be fine if we did less...it’s coming at the cost of our mental health.” | | 24:33 | Jennifer Senior | “You’re not screwing up your kid by handing your child to a babysitter. It’s okay.” | | 26:28 | Jennifer Senior | “There’s an opportunity to love someone else and not privilege your own self...that would be my argument.”| | 25:38 | Jennifer Senior | “If [my son] came to me and said, ‘Mom, I don’t want kids’... my heart would not break.” |

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Parental regret exists and is often driven by social pressure, lack of support, unrealistic expectations, and the loss of personal identity—particularly during early childhood years.
• Stigma keeps many from speaking openly; even among those who feel regret, love for their children and self-blame are complexly intertwined.
• Modern parenting culture—with its focus on over-involvement and perfection—exacerbates parent stress, possibly without benefitting children.
• The meaning of parenting is hard to measure in conventional studies: for some, it outweighs hardship; for others, it doesn't.
• Societal empathy is needed: We should recognize the difficulties of parenting, support those who choose not to have kids, and broaden our definition of family fulfillment.

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Suggested Listening Segments

• Stories of Parental Regret (Case Studies): 03:12–11:42
• How Prevalent is Regret? 11:42–13:03
• Jennifer Senior on Parenting History/Intensity: 17:29–22:52
• Meaning & Advice for Modern Parents: 24:05–26:56

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Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced examination of the experience of regretting parenthood without shame or judgment, pairing raw firsthand accounts with practical, historical, and psychological context. The conversation balances empathy for those facing difficult realities with the acknowledgment of joy and meaning in the parenting journey—if and only if it's a journey you choose.

Transcript

[Sean Ramesh]

Today Explained is the program. I'm Sean Ramis firm, and I recently became the father of a daughter. But I didn't always know if I wanted kids. In fact, I distinctly remember being at a bar with some of my oldest friends one night in my 20s and my buddy Jeff said he wanted to have kids and I was shocked. We were 25. We never talked about kids, but he knew he wanted them. How did he know? It sounds like something I would say. I asked him this week. 15 or so years later, I wanted

[Jennifer Senior]

to pursue something bigger than myself.

[Sean Ramesh]

That was something I could relate to at the time. It all worked out for Jeff, who now has two daughters and is super into them. But it doesn't go so well for everyone. More and more people in the United States are deciding not to have kids. Birth rates just hit yet another record low and some people out there are having kids and regretting the decision. We're going to hear from a few of them on Today Explained from Vox. Support for Today Explained comes from attio, the AICRM for modern teams. ATTIO connects to your email, calendar, calls, product data, billing data and more. So your CRM is always complete, always enriched and always in sync. Bye bye bye. If you want a CRM built for how you want to work, you can check out Attio. You can go to attio.com todayexplained and you get 15% off your first year. That's attio.com todayexplained Now's the time to save on new carpet at the Home Depot. Receive 10% off your total carpet project and 12 months special financing. Plus we'll measure your space for free. Choose from a variety of stylish on trend options. Fit for everyday life with LifeProof, LifeProof with PetProof technology, Home Decorators collection and Traffic master carpets save 10% and get 12 months special financing now at the Home Depot offer valid April 16 through May 3, 2026. Exclusions apply for licenses. See homedepot.com licensenumbers today explained now you

[Jennifer Senior]

say now Frances

[Bindu Bansinath]

Today. Good job. My name is Bindu Bansinath, I'm a senior writer at the Cut at New York Magazine and a few months ago we decided to do a theme package around the question of should I have kids? Evergreen question that like everyday new new people ask themselves. And for that I decided to do a story about exploring the parent regret which is an under discussed but widely felt sentiment among new parents, older parents, all kinds of parents. And I got the idea because a few months ago just Perusing Reddit, I kept seeing posts from this subreddit, Regretful Parents, where people would share stories of their struggles in parenthood or, you know, vent about feelings that are too taboo to share, you know, with their spouses or with their friends or family members who don't seem to understand, you know, the feelings of overwhelm that they're dealing with.

[Jennifer Senior]

Missing the life I dreamed of.

[Bindu Bansinath]

I am so tired.

[Jennifer Senior]

I gave up my son to my ex husband and I am free.

[Bindu Bansinath]

So I started looking through posts and looking for ones where people had kind of detailed their struggles and I was just kind of throwing everything at the wal messaging people blindly. I wanted to have a large sample of different kinds of parents. I was hoping to get parents of older children, parents of adult children, but by and large I do think while those parents do exist in the subreddit, it is mostly dominated by parents of very young children. And it just so happened that the three people who agreed to chat with me anonymously happened to be young mothers of young children. The first mom I spoke to has a six year old and a three year old. She lives in the northeast and she was formerly the executive at a nonprofit. And she was never really considered herself a kid person, but in dating her husband, it was kind of a deal breaker for him.

[Jennifer Senior]

I remember telling my husband, I'm worried. I love our life now and I'm not sure what it's going to look like with a child. And he told me, it's going to be better.

[Bindu Bansinath]

Everyone in their lives assured them that, you know, their lives are going well. They assured them that this is the natural next step, that it would be well worth it. And so they decided to take the plunge.

[Jennifer Senior]

I was worried about my career, but I thought, there are working moms everywhere, people do this. Then I had my first baby.

[Bindu Bansinath]

She really struggled after the birth of her first child. I think there were many ways that, you know, she was let down. You know, I think her doctor was very dismissive about her postpartum depression and things of that nature.

[Jennifer Senior]

She just kind of dismissed me and said, well, you don't feel like throwing her baby out the window, right?

[Bindu Bansinath]

And she just kind of felt like her life had gotten smaller. You know, she missed answering and solving like big problems at work and you know, now she was solving questions. There's, there was one point that she made like, oh, do you want the crackers in the red bowl or the blue bowl? So I think it was just really overwhelming to see like on the day to day how her time was dominated, how her life really just was upended.

[Jennifer Senior]

We'll watch movies or play video games, and every now and then I'll try and work on an art project. But by the time I've set everything up, I'm exhausted and it's time for bed. Having a kid turns you into a morning person the way being chased by a bear turns you into a runner.

[Bindu Bansinath]

These were feelings that she didn't really share with her husband because she always felt that, you know, he was a very natural caretaker. She kind of felt like he always knew what to do in stressful moments with the children, and she felt it didn't really come as naturally to her. But, you know, they have a lot of childless friends and they. Who they still hang out with. And kind of taking a step back and looking at where the chips have fallen for everyone, they kind of landed on, yeah, like, we love our children, but certainly life would be easier and perhaps happier without them. I spoke to a young mom in Southern Europe, had a fairly sheltered life, and she also never considered herself to be much of a kid person. She got married pretty young and wanted to wait a few years before having kids, which was something that was important to her husband. And she found that while deciding whether or not to have children, a lot of people in her life were assuring her that, you know, you wouldn't do it alone. They would be there for her, they would help her along the way. And once she got pregnant and had her baby, it was very much not the case. There was a sense that the village who had promised to show up for her was in, you know, nowhere to be found. She was a teacher and had to put her career on hold, and her mom came to help and things like that, but it just kind all fell on her.

[Jennifer Senior]

It felt like I'd been tricked into this. Everyone who wanted me to have a child, my husband, my family, knew they weren't going to lose much while my freedom and identity went down the toilet.

[Bindu Bansinath]

And something that I thought was interesting about her story was, you know, she talks a little bit about the feeling of that newborn bubble that she experienced with her daughter. And she said that she was afraid that she wouldn't feel a connection with her, that she would struggle with, depress.

[Jennifer Senior]

But when I gave birth to my daughter, I was actually so happy. It's like I was in this bubble where I had no worries about work, meals were brought to me, nurses took care of us.

[Bindu Bansinath]

Then it's, yeah, going home and kind of going back to reality where really an undue amount of stress and Work falls on her shoulders that things become really difficult.

[Jennifer Senior]

If I could go back, I would redo everything. My fantasy is an alternate universe where I graduated, went straight to a doctorate program, and lived alone. I would go for walks whenever I wanted and go swimming at the end of the week. It would be an isolated life, but a peaceful one.

[Bindu Bansinath]

She's tried to communicate these feelings with her husband and her mom, but I don't think that it lands very well. Her mom is like, how can you not enjoy your child? And, you know, she feels like no one's really understanding. It's not that she doesn't enjoy her child. It's not that she doesn't love her. It's just that she feels very strongly that she's been tricked into motherhood.

[Jennifer Senior]

It's like my future is over now, with nowhere else to go, while my daughter's is about to begin. It's an ugly feeling.

[Bindu Bansinath]

And then the third woman, she's a dog trainer in North Carolina who got unexpectedly pregnant with her boyfriend at 25. She didn't want to proceed, but she faced a lot of pressure.

[Jennifer Senior]

I spoke to my mom about it, but she's very religious and anti abortion. The same thing with one of my closest friends, which surprised me.

[Bindu Bansinath]

Her husband wasn't in that camp, but she knew that he very much wanted to have this child. And everyone kind of assured her that her doubts were just doubts that they would fall away once she had the baby, that this was a good thing, and she was just scared and anxious and everything would be different once she had her baby. But that wasn't the case for her.

[Jennifer Senior]

I felt like I'd disappeared as a human being. Clients called me mama. Friends and family asked me how my son was. They told me how excited and overjoyed I must be. I tried telling them I wasn't coping well with motherhood and was still processing the birth. And they'd tell me that's what motherhood is.

[Bindu Bansinath]

She, you know, struggled to connect with her baby and also just she felt really sidelined as a person, as an individual with friends and family and all these relationships. She felt like a mother to them, first and foremost, and as if her old self was just kind of shelved, not important anymore.

[Jennifer Senior]

I didn't feel like my life was worthless. It was just that I was stuck inside a role not meant for me.

[Bindu Bansinath]

In the end, she really feels like she wishes that she had listened to her own instincts in the beginning and followed them instead of kind of letting people tell her that those are all normal feelings. And now she and her husband are separating and he's going to now raise the baby as a single dad. And that's the right decision for her. And she, in our conversation, expressed that she just wishes that she had listened to her instincts early on because they always stayed the same.

[Jennifer Senior]

I can't live this life with him anymore. I'm not the parent my son needs. I don't feel anything for him. I don't want to wait it out for years and walk out when he has actual memories. Right now he's very young and you can fake things, but I can only fake it so much.

[Sean Ramesh]

Did you look into how much these anecdotes might reflect, I don't know, data on what we know about how many people regret having children. Do we have that data?

[Bindu Bansinath]

Well, I know that there was like a study done that found I think somewhere like 5 to 14% of parents having this feeling. But that being said, even the researchers of that study kind of acknowledged that this is a really hard thing to quantify. Even, you know, as we spoke earlier about this just being such a taboo subject, it's hard to kind of really get telling data about it. I'm not a parent, but, you know, I'm someone who's been on the fence about it. This has kind of made me think more deeply about it. And now if I'm up against, you know, the kinds of things that the women I spoke to were up against, like people telling them like, this is the natural next step. This is going to be a good thing. Like you're going to find this worth it. I think that doing the story, having their hindsight, I might be. I'm really going to just consider it more carefully when I consider it.

[Sean Ramesh]

Bindu's piece is titled I Regret having Children. And you can read it@the cut.com we're gonna hear from someone who doesn't regret kids but still acknowledges some of the incumbent challenges. When TODAY Explained Return. Support for Today explained comes from 1-800-Flowers and who doesn't love flowers? If you're planning to send your mom flowers this Mother's Day, you might want a little help choosing the perfect bouquet to show her how much she means to you. 1-800-Flowers says that for more than 50 years, they've been helping people send beautiful arrangements by perfecting the details that matter most. And if you're Prone to procrastination, 1-800-Flowers says that they've been saving their customers with same day delivery for years. Even if May 9th snuck up on you, they can still make May 10th count. That's a nice thought. Claire White did you try flowers?

[Jennifer Senior]

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[Bindu Bansinath]

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[Jennifer Senior]

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[Bindu Bansinath]

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[Jennifer Senior]

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[Sean Ramesh]

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[Jennifer Senior]

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[Bindu Bansinath]

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[Jennifer Senior]

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[Bindu Bansinath]

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[Jennifer Senior]

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[Bindu Bansinath]

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[Jennifer Senior]

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[Bindu Bansinath]

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[Jennifer Senior]

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[Sean Ramesh]

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[Jennifer Senior]

I mean, here's the thing about all three. All three had really small kids and from zero to three, those are the toughest years. I mean, consistently, this is like replicated data over and over again. It's the hardest. And sleep deprivation is a confound. And the fact that there is no real available childcare options other than, you know, everything is resting on this tiny nuclear family. It's so hard, it's boring. There's just so much going or so little and so much that's going on at the same time. Flow is unattainable. This is consistently the hardest time to parent. Parenthood lasts until you die. I mean, adult children are like an astonishing pleasure. Grandkids I'm now a step grandparent are like calorie free chocolate. They're just amazing. It's all upside and no down and you get that from having kids or step kids. But also like there are really pleasurable years and there are joyous times. It's very hard to find the joy when they're that young. I mean, it's just tough. And also when you're in, it isn't the only way to look at it. I mean, it's also looking back on your life and to look at what you've done. So I think catching people in that window, I'm not surprised that people are just in agony.

[Sean Ramesh]

Okay, so you read this piece in New York magazine at the cut about parents who regret their choices and you have a particular reaction to it. You yourself, a decade and a half ago or so, wrote a piece for New York magazine about parenting and and later turned it into a book called All Joy and no Fun. But I get the feeling it's a slightly different perspective that you were extrapolating there.

[Jennifer Senior]

It was a wholly different perspective. I wouldn't call it slight because I never talk about regret. Also, the subtitle was the Paradox of Modern Parenting. Parents are psychotically in love with their children, but that the way parenting is now conspires against fun. It just does. I mean, the sociologist Viviana Zelizer wrote this book called Pricing the Priceless Child. And the point is that there was a time when we lived on farms, when the United States first began, you know, in its manufacturing years and post industrialization, but before a robust middle class, when kids contributed to the family till. Right. They worked on our farms, sonny boy.

[Sean Ramesh]

No ABCs.

[Jennifer Senior]

When there's corn to harvest, they were sent. And by the way, I'm not pining for the Dickensian days of yore when kids went out and worked in factories and coal mines and textile mills. This was not a great arrangement, but they were contributing to the family's income. Wow.

[Sean Ramesh]

The crops brought in $10 this season.

[Jennifer Senior]

All right, sonny boy.

[Sean Ramesh]

I guess some good night moon.

[Jennifer Senior]

When going to school became standard and everyone finished high school. And then when the progressive era happened and suddenly there were correctly, child labor laws forbidding this, and kids started going to school and completing school, and then what was their value? It was that they were emotionally giving you something. They were not economically giving you anything.

[Sean Ramesh]

Oh, honey, look at sonny boy. He's bobbing his head to the music. Just $5,000 for the premium Baby Mozart package. Worth every penny.

[Jennifer Senior]

So they became economically worthless and emotionally priceless, in the words of Viviana Zelizer.

[Sean Ramesh]

And do you think it's evolved to the point that there's a chance we're overdoing it? I mean, I have friends in which, you know, both parents put the kids to bed every night without fail. And I admire them from a distance. But then I sometimes wonder if, like, that's putting just too much pressure on the parents. I mean, like, my parents definitely did not come anywhere close to doing that. And I think I turned out relatively well adjusted.

[Jennifer Senior]

I know, me too. I pay my taxes. I'm pretty nice. I'm like, I think I'm a pretty good parent. I mean, like, yeah, I'm not sure I, like, show up to work on time. It's really nuts. Yes. And I think that this is in part an outgrowth of that. Right. That this is now our job. Right. Like, because they're not doing. It's to cultivate the kid.

[Sean Ramesh]

So it sounds like you do think that we're overdoing it.

[Jennifer Senior]

I mean, I think kids would be fine if we did less. And yes, I think we're overdoing it in the sense that it's coming at, like, the cost of our mental health. And I don't think kids are benefiting from being hovered over. My kids are not allowed to go swimming with anyone that is not their biological parent. If I gotta drop my kids off cause parents aren't allowed, they won't be there. When they go to the doctor or to the dentist to get an X ray, I request an X ray jacket. I do snoop through my kids stuff through their phones. I read their text. Sorry, call me what you want, but I gotta be in there like swimwear.

[Sean Ramesh]

You wrote this book that really struck a chord 12 years ago.

[Jennifer Senior]

We turn next to our weekly Brief But Spectacular feature. Tonight, author Jennifer Siena shares her ideas about the Tribulation.

[Bindu Bansinath]

Our guest, Jennifer Sr. Writes about how children change the lives of their parents for better and sometimes for worse. She's the author of All Children.

[Sean Ramesh]

Bindu wrote this piece in New York magazine, the Cut that really struck a chord a month ago on Twitter, people

[Bindu Bansinath]

just discovered the Regretful Parents subreddit. And so everyone's outraged that the parent would even, like, dare to admit that. I truly believe that the majority of women would not choose to be a wife and mother if they really knew how it was gonna be.

[Jennifer Senior]

Okay, so parental regret is the topic. And I admit I didn't actually read the article because it's behind a paywall.

[Sean Ramesh]

If nothing else, what we can gather from that is people are always thinking about this question about whether to not have kids. And you seem to really want to remind people that there's a lot of joy to be had and that this isn't necessarily something you'd regret. But do you worry that this is increasingly a less appealing proposition to not just a generation, but to multiple generations?

[Jennifer Senior]

Totally. I get it. Yes. I mean, I'll say two things. First of all, I think there's a lot of meaning in having parented, you know, and in parenting. And you can't. The studies are very bad at measuring that. You have to actually ask, how meaningful is your life? You know, and you have to ask people what the most meaningful things are in their lives.

[Sean Ramesh]

And what was your key? For people who, you know, said, like, jennifer, I'm so glad you wrote this book. How do I make it more fun?

[Jennifer Senior]

I did use to encourage people to be less fixated on cultivating their children, like, with quite the intensity that they did. Like, it's okay for them to bike on their own. It's okay for them to do, like two extracurriculars and not four. They didn't have to learn Mandarin. If you need time for yourself, if you find a childcare provider who you trust and who has good references. You're not screwing up your kid by handing your child to a babysitter. It's okay. But oh my God, I can completely see why younger generations today would be really nervous about having kids. I am terrified for my kids. He's 18 and I'm scared for him. I don't regret him because I love him and I think he's gonna be nimble enough to figure out how to lead a good life.

[Sean Ramesh]

And if he came to you and said, you know, mom, I don't want

[Jennifer Senior]

kids, oh, I would get it, and I wouldn't. My heart would not break. And also, I don't have any vanity associated with this. Like, what are you talking about? But my genes must live on in perpetuity. Like, I don't have any vain attachment to my DNA. You know what I mean? And also, kids are born strangers. Like, you don't know who they're going to be. I mean, it's such a joke. My kid is nothing like me at all. Like, he hates reading. Despises it. I was like the New York Times book critic for two and a half years. My sister in law at one point said to me, maybe you should expose him to more books. And I was like, 150galleys like per week arrive at my doorstep. My kid doesn't like reading. What am I going to do? He's like a different human being. That's that, you know.

[Sean Ramesh]

So the best reason to have kids is not to like see your genes replicated in another being. What is it?

[Jennifer Senior]

Well, I mean, from the selfish perspective, it's that there's meaning in your life. There's joy in your life that's kind of qualitatively different. There's an opportunity to love someone else and to not privilege your own self. And it's nice to not think about yourself and to learn how to not think about yourself. So I guess that would be my argument.

[Sean Ramesh]

Jennifer Sr. Is a staff writer at the Atlantic. Her book All Joy and no the Paradox of Modern Parenthood moved a lot of units when it dropped back in 2014. Miles Bryan produced today's show. Jolie Myers edited, Gabriel pursued Truth, David Tadashore pursued sound. Danielle Hewitt, Kelly Wessinger and Ariana Spuru voiced their grateful moms in the first half of the show. The last of us are Noel King, Miranda Kennedy, Aminah Al Saadi, Abhishai, Artsy, Peter Balanon, Rosen Hadi Mwagdi, Dustin De Soto and Patrick Boyd, who hopefully skips this episode. We use music by Breakmaster Cylinder Today Explained is distributed by wnyc. The show is a part of the Vox Media Podcast network. For more podcast go to podcasts.voxmedia.com youm can listen to this show ad free by signing [e-mail] members and you can listen to our Sunday show. Explain it to me on Sunday. This week's episode is all about having to take care of your kids and your parents at the same time. A little bit of a spiritual sequel to today's Today Explained. Check it out. Support for the charity comes from Quince Spring Cleaning. It takes many forms. I might do some this weekend. Deep cleaning the kitchen. Done it already. Fixing broken appliances. Done it already. And the classic cleaning out the closet. That's what I'm gonna do this weekend. So if this season you're ready to reset your wardrobe with some quality long lasting pieces, you might wanna check out Quince. Quince says they make high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, organic cotton and super soft denim. Super soft and with style starting around $50. They say their spring pieces are lightweight, breathable and effortless. That kind of thing you can throw on and instantly look put together. That's the dream. Our colleague Nisha Sheetal has tried Quince.

[Jennifer Senior]

I love wearing a sweater and je

[Bindu Bansinath]

similar styles of sweaters from higher end brands for double, triple or even more the price. So they do feel like really really

[Jennifer Senior]

good value for your money.

[Bindu Bansinath]

And the style and the quality feel similar to much more expensive comparable brands.

[Sean Ramesh]

You can refresh your spring wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com explained for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada. Hi go to q U-I-N-C e.com explained for free shipping and 375 data returns. Quince.com explained.