How Trump lost the bro vote

Summary

Podcast Summary: Today, Explained – How Trump Lost the Bro Vote

Release Date: June 27, 2026
Host: Astad Herndon (Vox)

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Episode Overview

This episode investigates the striking decline in Donald Trump’s popularity among young men, a group once seen as a core demographic. Host Astad Herndon reports from Donald Trump’s high-profile UFC event at the White House, interviewing attendees to understand the shifting attitudes and loss of the so-called “bro vote.” He explores why young men are turning on Trump, which issues matter most, and whether this signals an opening for Democrats.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Collapse of Trump's Support Among Young Men

• Opening Data (00:01): Trump’s approval with men under 30 went from slightly positive in 2024 to being “underwater by 55 points” in 2026.
• "There's simply no way around the numbers. Donald Trump's approval rating in his second term has completely collapsed…men under 30 have widely disapproved of Donald Trump." — Astad Herndon (00:01)

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2. At the UFC Event: Why Are Young Men Really There?

• The Pull of UFC Over Politics (02:26–02:32):
  Most young men attended for UFC, not Trump.
  • "UFC all the way." — Event Attendees (02:30)
  • "UFC has a lot of culture... that's what America is to me." — Event Attendee 3 (02:32)

The Trump Connection to Masculinity

• Trump’s Appeal to Young Men (03:00–03:31):
  Attendees cite Trump’s self-presentation, promises, and resonance with “masculinity.”
  • "It aligns with masculinity, I feel like, to a certain extent." — Event Attendee 1 (03:18)
  • "At first, it was what he was promising to America…lower prices…no wars." — Event Attendee 3 (03:25–03:37)

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3. Disappointment With Trump’s Second Term

• Disconnect Between Promise and Reality (04:04–04:14, 10:04–10:15): Attendees express disappointment—higher prices, wars, and broken promises.

  • "He's not living up to what he said he was going to do. You know, he said he was anti-war...going to lower prices…we're not seeing it." — Event Attendee 1 (04:04)
  • "I'd say less [than his first term]." — Event Attendee 4 on liking Trump now (10:04)

• Specific Grievances (04:19–04:25, 08:38–08:45): Gas prices and economic pain rank as top concerns.

  • "Gas. Don't even get me started on gas." — Event Attendee 4 (04:19)
  • "Gas prices. It's bad." — Event Attendee 4 (08:40)

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4. The Impact of the Epstein Files and Wars

• Shifted Perceptions (04:31–05:04): The release of Epstein files and involvement in new conflicts have turned off young men. Issues of transparency and broken anti-war promises are cited as watershed moments.

  • "After, you know, the Epstein files…everything he's doing now is like, negate that." — Event Attendee 2 (04:31)
  • "The wars…definitely separated a lot of people, especially young people…because no one likes pedophiles." — Event Attendee 1 (04:50)

• Foreign Policy Fatigue (06:04–06:22): Aid to Israel and involvement overseas are seen as detracting from domestic priorities.

  • "A lot less [aid]. You know, it's, there's stuff going on over there. It's serious stuff. People are dying and it just shouldn't be happening." — Event Attendee 1 (06:04)
  • "We don't want conflict." — Event Attendee 3 (06:21)

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5. Can Anyone Replace Trump’s Unique Appeal?

• Celebrity vs. Politician (05:38–05:44, 07:38–07:48): Attendees doubt anyone can match Trump’s celebrity effect. Names like Thomas Massie come up, but Trump is considered unique.

  • "Even if someone does do this after Trump, it just won't be at the scale that Trump did it at because he feels unique..." — Event Attendee 2 (05:38)
  • "I do not agree with any of the things that he has, you know, done or said...But I think it's pretty cool that he likes the fights." — Event Attendee 6 (07:38)

• Democrats Missing Opportunities (08:06–08:32): Democrats fail to engage in the same cultural events or speak to “bro culture.”

  • "Democrats don't really do UFC…if Kamala Harris was president, I doubt that there would be a UFC event on the White House." — Astad Herndon (08:06)

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6. Masculinity and Political Identity

• Linking Republican Brand to Masculinity (10:32–10:56): Some attendees directly link being Republican to traditional masculinity and eschewing Democratic associations, particularly with LGBTQ inclusion.
  • "I agree that more men think, like, I think it's more masculine…to vote, or Republican than Democrat." — Event Attendee 4 (10:32)
  • "Most, like, masculine men don't want to be a part of [the LGBTQ community], so they go the other side." — Event Attendee 4 (10:40)

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7. Synthesis: Herndon’s Three Takeaways

(10:56–12:00)

1. Most boys were at the event for UFC, not Trump.
2. Trump’s support for UFC relates to his rise from the fringe—mirroring the sport’s own path.
3. Young men feel differently about Trump: “hasn’t focused on the right priorities,” and his “cool” factor as a model of masculinity has faded in his second term.

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8. Interview with Jack Posobiec: The Manosphere & Trump’s Cultural Clout

(15:49–29:27)

Trump’s Ways of Connecting With Men

• The Showman Fighter (15:49–17:54): Trump has always seen himself “as a fighter,” borrowing from wrestling and sports entertainment to stage-manage both politics and culture.
  • "I've always thought…the way he looks at these things are…he's got a challenge directly in front of him..." — Jack Posobiec (15:49)
  • "There's a lot of that WWE DNA that went into the campaign..." — Jack Posobiec (16:00)

Authenticity, but Shifting Tides

• Losing the ‘Regular Guy’ Connection (18:33–19:16): Young men want focus on domestic issues and see Trump’s foreign interventions and economic failures as betrayals.
  • "They want more focus on domestic, whereas they see the foreign stuff...I just want to see stuff that affects me directly." — Jack Posobiec (19:16)

The Policy Disconnect – Gas Prices & Iran (20:00–21:00)

• "Gas prices are up...but that is the price for this [Iran]." — Jack Posobiec (20:22)
• Posobiec admits there’s “friction,” that these challenges weaken the bond with young male voters.

The Epstein Files and Trust (21:01–22:37)

• Posobiec is critical of Trump’s lack of transparency, arguing withholding information about Epstein creates a “block between that relationship that he's always traditionally had with the average people.” (22:04)

• "If you don't release it…it becomes a block between that relationship…to say, hey, wait a minute, we thought you were on our side." — Jack Posobiec (22:04)

Attempt to Reconnect

• Posobiec frames the UFC event as a “reconnection” effort:
  • "It's like, sometimes I get a little busy, girl needs date night...I take her on, I say...I'm putting the phone down...It's nice, just me and you." (23:17)
• Acknowledges younger men are “softer” on Trump now, but emphasizes that if policy doesn’t change, events alone won’t fix the rift.

Will the Conservative ‘Bro’ Brand Endure Past Trump? (26:15–28:18)

• JD Vance is cited as coming closest to emulating Trump’s “meme culture” understanding and forging a similar bond—but no Democrat is seen as having traction with this demographic.

  • "There is something real special that I see whenever JD [Vance] goes and he's with the military...They really look up to him, and they see him as one of theirs." — Jack Posobiec (26:24)
  • "I just don't see a Democrat that has that right now." — Jack Posobiec (27:17)

• Democrats are trying “white male veterans” as candidates, but it’s unclear if this approach will stick.

War, Economic Pain, and Forgiveness (29:03–29:27)

• Posobiec ties war, high gas prices, and the fading “bro” loyalty directly together:
  • "You cannot disassociate war around with the gas prices and the economic pain people are feeling...If you say, don't worry about it...you're done.” (29:03)
  • "If you have victory, then people are willing to forgive a lot." (29:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Trump definitely used to seem cool. Like, do we think he's still cool?" — Astad Herndon (04:25)
• "I feel like...he's not living up to what he said he was going to do...we're disappointed." — Event Attendee 1 (04:04)
• "I care about my wallet too, man." — Jack Posobiec (06:54)
• "He hasn't necessarily focused on the right priorities, and even the things that made him a model man or semi-cool have fallen off..." — Astad Herndon (10:56)
• "For a guy who's turning 80...is that the same for JD Vance?" — Astad Herndon (26:15)
• "Numbers are softer today. There's no question about that. But that's what this is all about. That's what having the UFC here is about. So I think there may be that acknowledgment that's coming off to say, hey, we need to reconnect." — Jack Posobiec (28:39–29:01)
• Controversial Moment: UFC fighter Josh Hokut states, "Michelle Obama is a man." — (30:36)
  • Herndon: "There are ways to appeal to masculinity and rural American culture that aren't cruel or misogynistic. This event was not one of them." (30:42)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:01–02:32: Astad Herndon at the UFC event, interviewing young male attendees about their motivations and changing views of Trump.
• 03:25–04:14: Young men express disillusionment over broken promises and the state of the economy.
• 04:31–05:04: Epstein files and foreign policy as turning points.
• 06:04–06:28: Strong anti-war, anti-foreign aid sentiment.
• 10:32–10:56: Discussing masculinity and partisanship.
• 10:56–12:00: Herndon’s three core takeaways about the bro vote.
• 15:49–29:27: In-depth conversation with Jack Posobiec on masculinity, culture, Trump’s political brand, transparency and future political prospects.
• 30:36–31:00: The Michelle Obama comment controversy and reflection on the event’s implications.

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Conclusion

The episode compellingly illustrates Trump’s waning grip on the young male vote, emphasizing that cultural performance and identity politics—once effective—are now colliding with policy failures and scandals. Trump’s signature events may generate media moments, but unless economic and foreign policy grievances are addressed, a crucial demographic is slipping away. However, skepticism remains about whether Democrats are willing or able to capitalize on this opening, especially in the cultural arena.

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Quick Takeaways

• Trump’s unique cultural touch—linking fighting, sports, and masculinity—is less effective during a period of policy disappointment.
• Key issues making young men turn: unmet campaign promises, inflation/gas prices, wars (notably Iran), and lack of transparency (Epstein files).
• Attempts to reconnect through spectacle (UFC at the White House) are acknowledged by both critics and supporters as vital, but possibly insufficient.
• No Democrat is seen as replicating Trump’s “bro” strategy, but figures like JD Vance could inherit his digital/cultural playbook on the right.
• Democratic failures to address—or even recognize—the value of events like UFC for young male voters are repeatedly noted as missed opportunities.

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For listeners and campaign strategists alike, this episode is an incisive examination of the fading “bro vote”—not simply a loss for Trump, but a challenge and opportunity for the next political generation.

Transcript

[Astad Herndon]

There's simply no way around the numbers. Donald Trump's approval rating in his second term has completely collapsed. But some groups matter more than others, and one group matters a whole lot. That's young men. Take a look at this stat. In 2024, men under 30 prefer Donald Trump to Kamala Harris by about 1 percentage point. But in recent polling this year, men under 30 have widely disapproved of Donald Trump, and his approval rating is underwater by 55, a stunning decline. Now, I wanted to dig in further with these numbers at an event that was specifically geared to target this group. So I went to Washington, D.C. for Donald Trump's UFC event to talk to young men about the president. Do we think he's still cool? Have young men really turned on Donald Trump? Let's dig in. Support for today's show comes from BetterHelp. Summer is here, which means travel is picking up, the kids are out of school, and fun is in the air. But juggling it can be a lot. So if you're feeling overwhelmed, counting down the days until school returns, or just worried you're missing critical days of sunshine, BetterHelp is here. BetterHelp can match you with a licensed therapist who can help you through it all. Just fill out a short questionnaire to identify your preferences, or if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time. You don't have to say yes to everything. This summer, you can find support in therapy, sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Americaactually that's better. H E L P.com Americaactually when I

[Geico Customer]

scraped my car in that parking garage, I was worried that it could be a long process to take care of it. Like a landscaper's first day trimming a hedge.

[Jack Posobiec]

Maid, I have definitely already been here. Now, was it left, right, or right left? Well, maybe I'll cut a path out and find my way back later, but

[Geico Customer]

it wasn't like that. I filed a claim in under two minutes on the Geico app, and they handled it from there. It was taken care of almost as quickly as it happened.

[Jack Posobiec]

It feels good to get help quick.

[Astad Herndon]

It feels good to Geico. Why'd y' all decide to come out today?

[Event Attendee 1]

Well, proud to be American. We got free tickets. It's just gonna be a great time.

[Event Attendee 2]

That's about it.

[Astad Herndon]

One question we have is, would you say you're here for Trump or ufc?

[Event Attendee 2]

Ufc.

[Event Attendee 1]

UFC all the Way. Ufc.

[Event Attendee 3]

UFC has a lot of culture, a lot of different people from a lot of different places, and that's what America is to me.

[Astad Herndon]

You definitely see diversity. You definitely see a lot of different types of people. You see a different type of vibe. But one of the things that is really clear is, like, you know, Trump used UFC to kind of pitch himself to young men in the campaign trail and things like that. And there seems to be that, like, younger men really liked him in 2024ish. Do y' all think that's true? And then, like, is that still still true?

[Event Attendee 2]

I feel like he just knows how to advertise himself to the younger proud.

[Astad Herndon]

Why do we think Trump and men seem to have a connection?

[Event Attendee 2]

I mean, I guess his views.

[Astad Herndon]

What do you mean?

[Event Attendee 1]

That's a good question.

[Astad Herndon]

I'm like, why do we think this is true? Right?

[Event Attendee 2]

Yeah, Just the way he views everything, I guess. Similar with how younger people.

[Event Attendee 1]

It aligns with masculinity, I feel like, to a certain extent.

[Astad Herndon]

Like, is it how he talks? Is it the policy? Like, what would we say specifically?

[Event Attendee 3]

Well, at first, it was what he was promising to America.

[Astad Herndon]

What do you mean?

[Event Attendee 3]

He was promising lower prices on everything. We didn't know wars were gonna start with other countries. It's like the younger generation, they see this stuff, they see everything online, and

[Astad Herndon]

it's like he was promising change.

[Event Attendee 3]

Yeah, promising change.

[Geico Customer]

Yeah.

[Event Attendee 3]

That's a big change.

[Jack Posobiec]

Exactly.

[Astad Herndon]

The question I have is, has he lived up to that?

[Event Attendee 3]

No.

[Event Attendee 1]

No, I wouldn't say so. I would say so. I'm disappointed. We're disappointed.

[Astad Herndon]

I guess what I was gonna ask about, you mentioned no new wars. You mentioned kind of. I mean, gas price, Whatever, whatever you wanna make. I'm like, what do you think has been the disconnect in the second time?

[Event Attendee 3]

I'm middle class. I want things that affect my life. I wanna see change to day. It's like.

[Astad Herndon]

And I don't see that he mentioned disappointed. Why?

[Event Attendee 1]

Just because he's not living up to what he said he was going to do. You know, he said he was anti war. You know, he said he was going to lower prices and we're just not. Like, that result is just not happening. You know, we're not seeing it.

[Astad Herndon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, do you all feel the same way?

[Event Attendee 3]

Yeah.

[Jack Posobiec]

Prices are ridiculous.

[Event Attendee 4]

Gas. Don't even get me started on gas. I don't even want to fill my gas tank no more.

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah, it's crazy, man.

[Astad Herndon]

Trump definitely used to seem cool. Like, do we think he's still cool? Question mark?

[Event Attendee 2]

I feel like after, you know, the Epstein files and everything should have just like.

[Event Attendee 1]

Yeah.

[Event Attendee 2]

With how he's been acting. I feel like it was a lot more, you know, chill before that. I feel like everything he's doing now is like, negate that. Like, what happened with that?

[Astad Herndon]

Like what we say that the Epstein files, you think was the break between, like, maybe when some of this comes. There was a lot of things, I

[Event Attendee 1]

think the wars, I think that that definitely separated a lot of people, especially young people, you know, because no one likes pedophiles. You know, no one likes. And the way that it's portrayed, at least it seems like there's trying to be some sort of COVID up.

[Event Attendee 4]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Astad Herndon]

Okay, last question. Would be like, to the ways that Trump was trying to appeal to young men and pitch himself, like, does that apply to people after him? Like, can JD Vance do the same thing? Do y' all like these. Is there another politician, maybe even not Republican, that you like the way they're acting or is this like a specific Trump phenomenon?

[Event Attendee 1]

Thomas Massie.

[Astad Herndon]

Thomas Massie.

[Event Attendee 5]

Interesting.

[Astad Herndon]

Anyone else who you see across the landscape and you're like, I like that person.

[Event Attendee 2]

I mean, I don't really keep up with politics. Fairness. So I feel like even if someone does do this after Trump, it just won't be at the scale that Trump

[Astad Herndon]

did it at because he feels unique in some way in the celebrity or in all of that part. Okay, cool.

[Jack Posobiec]

I will say I really like Mount Dummy, though.

[Astad Herndon]

You like Mayor of New York, Zoran?

[Event Attendee 6]

Yes, sir.

[Event Attendee 1]

I have to disagree with you.

[Astad Herndon]

Disagree. If there's one issue you would want Trump to focus on that he hasn't, what would it be? Foreign aid to Israel you want to see? I imagine less.

[Event Attendee 1]

A lot less. I feel like, you know, it's, there's, there's stuff going on over there. It's serious stuff. People are dying and it just shouldn't be happening.

[Astad Herndon]

Is there any other issue paying for that as taxpayers? Is there any other issue you would want him to focus on that he's not focusing on right now?

[Event Attendee 2]

Main thing. Yeah.

[Event Attendee 4]

Israel.

[Jack Posobiec]

Just Israel.

[Event Attendee 2]

Really?

[Event Attendee 1]

Yeah.

[Event Attendee 3]

We don't want conflict.

[Geico Customer]

Yeah.

[Event Attendee 1]

I feel like a lot of young people are on the same page with that. Like, it's, it's a big thing for the young voters is, is it does

[Astad Herndon]

seem as if, like, you know, if Epstein was maybe break one.

[Event Attendee 4]

Yeah.

[Astad Herndon]

Then Iran war and specific relationship to Israel has been a major break in, in terms of this year. Have you seen people talk about him differently or like, feel him differently about him since that stuff has popped up?

[Event Attendee 1]

Just keep America first, you know, like keep our priorities in America. That's all it is.

[Event Attendee 3]

Care about my family, I care about my country. I want people to be safe and happy where they live.

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah, I care about my wallet too, man.

[Astad Herndon]

Country, family, wallet. In some order. In some. It's some order. Tell me your name.

[Event Attendee 4]

You can call me Eddie.

[Event Attendee 5]

Eddie.

[Event Attendee 2]

Eddie.

[Event Attendee 6]

Jose.

[Astad Herndon]

Jose. So do you. Would you say you came for Trump or you came for ufc? I came for the ufc.

[Event Attendee 2]

I know a lot of people are hating about.

[Astad Herndon]

He's doing it at the White House and stuff like that, but I think it's just a one of a lifetime opportunity to happen.

[Jack Posobiec]

So that's why you came here?

[Astad Herndon]

Yeah. What about you?

[Event Attendee 6]

I feel like it's an environment. I feel like this is like a one time opportunity. We can come and, you know, come to a historic place and we get to see something that we really like, like gfc.

[Astad Herndon]

Do you like Trump? To be honest, not. But I mean, what about you?

[Event Attendee 6]

I do not, I do not agree with any on any of the things that he has, you know, done or said or what he's, you know, going. But I think it's pretty cool that he likes the fights, that he likes ufc, you know, and all.

[Astad Herndon]

You like that?

[Event Attendee 6]

Yeah, I think that's, you know, like if any. Anybody that likes ufc, I think the

[Astad Herndon]

mayor of New York, he was at the Brazil game.

[Event Attendee 5]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Astad Herndon]

Zuan was at the World cup event. You're saying it's kind of like the same Trump coming to this versus him going to World Cup.

[Event Attendee 6]

I'm assuming that there's people that also don't like the New York mayor, but, you know, pretty cool that he likes the FIFA game too, because one thing

[Astad Herndon]

is like, Democrats don't really do ufc. They don't do anything like that. You know, if Kamala Harris was president, I doubt that there would be a UFC event on the White House. Right, right. I'm saying, like, do you think that's a missed opportunity for them to speak to people like y'? All?

[Event Attendee 6]

Yeah, it might. It might be. Yeah. Like, that's why I'm saying, like, those people, like, if, if anything, like, let's say K doesn't like that, but if she has people on her team that like that, you know, they can always, you know, promote that and stuff.

[Event Attendee 4]

Yeah.

[Astad Herndon]

Okay, last question. If you have one issue you will want politicians to focus on, what would it be?

[Jack Posobiec]

Gas prices.

[Astad Herndon]

Gas prices.

[Event Attendee 4]

Gas prices. It's bad.

[Event Attendee 6]

I would say it was terrible.

[Event Attendee 4]

Yeah.

[Event Attendee 6]

I would say gas prices.

[Astad Herndon]

Who do you blame for that?

[Event Attendee 6]

I mean, I just think he's been president last.

[Astad Herndon]

I'm like. I'm like, you can't.

[Jack Posobiec]

It is the president, but it's also the things that he's doing with the war and stuff like that.

[Astad Herndon]

I think we should focus more on the US Than the other countries. Would you say you're here for Trump or ufc?

[Event Attendee 5]

I'd say a little bit of both.

[Astad Herndon]

Does the political angle, did it make you more excited or less excited to come?

[Event Attendee 4]

It made me more excited. You know, many people don't like Trump, but it's his birthday. He's the president. It's the greatest country on earth, so we're here to celebrate that. And watching grown men fight.

[Astad Herndon]

Did y' all vote for Trump?

[Event Attendee 5]

I'm 18, so I just turned 18, so I did not have the pleasure of being able to vote okay. Back in the last election.

[Astad Herndon]

But would you have.

[Event Attendee 5]

You know, I'd have to think about that. In my opinion, especially with people my age, I think we all think that two sides were too extreme, and if someone was in the middle, I definitely would have voted for them. But honestly, I might not have voted.

[Astad Herndon]

What do you think? Did you vote?

[Event Attendee 4]

I voted for Kanye.

[Astad Herndon]

Why is that?

[Event Attendee 4]

Same same reason. I think they're both extreme. They take it to the next level.

[Astad Herndon]

Do we think Trump is. Do you like him more or less than his first term?

[Event Attendee 4]

I mean, obviously I like the ufc, so it's a lot. I like that a lot he's doing that political wise. I mean, I'd say less.

[Event Attendee 5]

I'd say a little less, but I do like things he's doing like this. Obviously, that does change my opinion. It does work to change people's opinion.

[Astad Herndon]

You're saying this. This reached you, but you like him a little less this time than last time?

[Event Attendee 5]

I'd say a little bit, yeah.

[Astad Herndon]

One thing that really came up in the last election was about young men and Trump. Like, there was a whole thing about, like, folks like y'. All. Y' alls age, like, being really interested in Trump. And in some ways, it feels as if young men and Trump was a specific relationship in the last year.

[Event Attendee 4]

I agree on that. I agree that more men think, like, I think it's more masculine, they think to vote or Republican than Democrat.

[Astad Herndon]

Why do we think that is?

[Event Attendee 4]

I feel like more Democrat than view towards the LGBTQ community. And most, like, masculine men don't want to be a part of that. So they go the other side. Even, like, they don't look at the politics. Like, politics aside, they don't want to, like, be associated with gay people. So I feel that could be a reason and yeah, small reason.

[Astad Herndon]

So three big takeaways after talking to young men outside of Donald Trump's UFC event. The first is that a lot of these boys are here for the sport, not necessarily the press. They recognize the political aspect, but they're largely here because they're fans of fighting. The second thing though is that those things are kind of related things. As Donald Trump has gone from the fringe to the mainstream, so has UFC itself. And a lot of the fans of the sport really appreciate him backing them over a long period of time. But the third thing is the most important, particularly about politics, because I keep hearing from boys that they feel a little differently about Donald Trump in his second term and than the first term. They feel like he hasn't necessarily focused on the right priorities and even the things that made him a model man or semi cool have fallen off the second time he's been in office. So I'm going to dig further into that by someone who lives in the alt right manosphere. I'm going to talk to Jack Posobic, the far right activist and podcaster who will be at this event and who I talked to a couple years ago. I remember at that time he told me that the best way to understand Donald Trump is to think about a fighter. And so what better place to follow up on that conversation? Let's talk to them. Support for this show comes from Shopify. Starting a business is the beginning of a whole new chapter in your life and it's a stressful one. Taking on something that big can cause a lot of doubts. But this new journey doesn't have to be scary and Shopify wants to help make this experience as exciting and as stress free as possible. Shopify is a commerce platform powering millions of businesses worldwide. From established brands like Mattel and Commerce to companies just getting started. Their design tools make it easy to help companies build the online presence they're imagining. With hundreds of ready to use templates to choose from, everything is all in one place, helping make your life easier and your business operations smoother. And with built in marketing tools, you can create the full email and social campaigns in just a few clicks so you can reach customers wherever they are. Plus, if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to help with its 24. 7 customer support. See less carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comamera. actually, that's shopify.comamera actually go to shopify.com/america actually.

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[Jack Posobiec]

I've always thought that the way he looks at these things are, you know, he's got a challenge directly in front of him and he's thinking, how do I take that down?

[Astad Herndon]

And you look at, you look at

[Jack Posobiec]

his background with wwf, there's a lot of that DNA that went into the campaign, that went into the admin and I just, I've always thought that that's what President Trump's mentality, Donald Trump demands mentality was.

[Astad Herndon]

It also seems like an element of showmanship that's built into that WWF that Donald Trump understands. Like, look at this.

[Jack Posobiec]

It goes without saying. It goes without saying. The showmanship, the, the walkout themes, which obviously he uses at his rallies. Yeah, people don't realize behind stage at those rallies, he's directing all that.

[Astad Herndon]

The other thing I think about is kind of the, like, the, the masculinity projection, like people we're talking to here say that, like, you know, there's a special relationship between men and Trump that he understands them. Like, what do you think that means? What is that he did stop the

[Jack Posobiec]

only two women who ran for president?

[Astad Herndon]

You know, I'm saying that seems built in the cost, too. I'm saying, like, what is it about Donald Trump as a guy that guys,

[Jack Posobiec]

like, look at, look at his background, right? He's always been around with boxing, Don King, Iron Mike Tyson back in the

[Astad Herndon]

day, Vanderholy, even his hip hop stuff,

[Jack Posobiec]

even, even the hip hop stuff. He's always been sort of attracted to that masculine figure. Physicality. Always been around with sports. Like, sports are just back in such a big way right now. And Trump was always a big part of that, including, by the way, getting UFC off the ground. And Dana White tells the story all the time that nobody would give them assurance until Trump came along and said, you know what, let's give it a shot, right? They started as non mainstream, non establishment, you know, outside of the Overton window of discussion, but they connected with the people in a way that WWF connects to people. You go and look at the places that pro wrestling goes and holds their events, not just their Raws and the wrestlemanias, but the house shows, the shows that don't even make it on tv. And then you go across section that cross reference that with maga Ralphs. It's, it's one of the same group

[Astad Herndon]

of people, the same sort of culture that speaks to each other.

[Jack Posobiec]

You may not, you know, you may not have a pro sports team in your town, but you know what? When WWF comes to town, you can see Hulk Hogan body slam the Giant. You might be able to go see Donald Trump, I heard, come in and he's going to come as the New York City Fifth Avenue billionaire. He's going to come and see you and show that you matter.

[Astad Herndon]

I mean, yeah, you're right, there was a lot of outcry about, you know, UFC on the Lawn, but I hear what you're Saying that it's about bringing a culture that mostly lives in communities that necessarily don't have big sporting event, major sports teams and bringing that to the White House. And you're saying that's what Donald Trump has done is serve those communities.

[Jack Posobiec]

And he's always had that sort of authenticity that connects directly. So it doesn't surprise me at all that he would say, you know what, I'm here, I'm in the big place right now. I want to bring all my friends in together and do this.

[Astad Herndon]

I want to though, ask about what's changed maybe from first term Trump to second term Trump, because one of the things we heard even to talking to some of the young men here was that they feel like Trump's a little less cool now than they may have liked him four years ago. Like, what do you think is any difference between Trump's connection with those people now? That maybe those young men who supported him in 2024, but they're a little softer now because we talked to some of them here.

[Jack Posobiec]

I hear that a lot of people saying, especially young men saying, look, you know, we want more focus on domestic.

[Astad Herndon]

We heard that a lot to that, whereas.

[Event Attendee 1]

And I'm sure you did.

[Jack Posobiec]

I'm sure you do. I hear the exact same thing. And I communicate that to the White House. Whenever I talk to whoever I talk to in there, you know, whoever's listening, that it's, hey, they want more focus on domestic, whereas they see the foreign stuff. They say, you know, whether I'm for or against it, I just want to see stuff that affects me directly. And that's what I hear over, over and over again. It's that Epstein and you know, just, you know, gas price, whatever it is. And, and so I think that an event like today is going to be something hopefully kind of maybe restart that connection a little bit.

[Event Attendee 1]

Yeah.

[Astad Herndon]

So you're seems to be acknowledging that there is a little bit of a break in that connection, or at least some of the young men who was such a strength for Donald Trump in 2024. It seems like you're acknowledging they might be a little soft.

[Jack Posobiec]

I hear it all the time.

[Event Attendee 4]

I hear it all the time.

[Astad Herndon]

I mean, isn't there a kind of a fair argument that Donald Trump came in on prices, came in to lower prices and they're not lower inflation just hit a record high since those kind of Biden years. Like what's happened there?

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, I think what the President would say is, is that's the price of getting Iran off the table as a, as an international threat. So you acknowledge.

[Event Attendee 4]

I acknowledge it.

[Jack Posobiec]

I acknowledge.

[Event Attendee 6]

Acknowledge it.

[Jack Posobiec]

Of course, gas prices are up, they are coming down, but that is the price for this. Now, will that be in time for the midterms to have that, you know, have that softening effect? We'll see.

[Event Attendee 4]

Yeah.

[Jack Posobiec]

But I think at the end of the day, the President's looking at, when he leaves office at the end of 28, legally, you know, or I guess, you know, January 29th, that, you know, that he'll be able to say, hey, I took Iran off the world stage as this international republic. You know, I'm a trusted process on that. But I certainly acknowledge there's friction, there's pain points. Absolutely.

[Astad Herndon]

Cool. The second thing that I want to bring up is Epstein, because that came up with some of the young men here. Like, has it been surprising that Donald Trump has not seemed to follow through on the scope of transparency that he's promised?

[Jack Posobiec]

Look, I want to see. I want to see everything that's come out. I mean, everybody knows my background with this.

[Astad Herndon]

And I was going to say, like, as the Pizzagate guy, like, not even

[Jack Posobiec]

that, but I mean, like the whole thing with the. Pam Bondi gave us the binders and said, oh, this is going to be the, the big thing. And here they come and said, okay, but you always said that was part one. That would lead one to think there's going to be part two, part three, part, etc. You know, however many is, until we get all the way out. I think that if the administration had just said, you know what, just rip the band aid off, just rip the bandaid, it's going to happen eventually. Why not be the one to come out and say, look, we want to have all of this out. There's so much of an appetite for it. And I'll tell you why. Because the crimes that have been alleged and substantiated, even to this point, are so horrendous, so heinous, that it's just become this, I guess, avatar, I guess, of the elite versus the people kind of thing that we're talking about, that if you don't release it, it becomes.

[Astad Herndon]

Becomes he's on the side of the elite.

[Event Attendee 2]

It becomes a.

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, I was going to say it becomes a block between that relationship that I was just talking about that he's always traditionally had with the average people of America to say, hey, wait a minute, we thought you were on our side. Release everything. We want it out there.

[Astad Herndon]

I hear you. I just want to follow up, because what we were hearing from Some of the boys here was that the inability for him to be transparent on this front has already blocked the relationship that they felt like they had with him when he was coming into office. Why is. Has his lack of transparency to this point not been enough for you to already say they've crossed that threshold?

[Jack Posobiec]

Because it's a relationship problem, right? It's like. It's like one with my wife. And. And we have a. We have an issue. And I said, well, we solved that issue. So. Yeah, but is she happy about it? Right? So, you know, you know what I'm saying? You're saying that it's still. It's still. There's still, like, some lingering. So that's why I'm hoping. And I'm sure and. And by the way, very pleased to see that. You see the turnout today. There's a lot of people who said that, like, oh, he's totally lost his connection with, you know, the average person out there. I would say that. I think today is an example of him saying, you know what? Hey, I'm on your side. We're going to do this thing. I'm opening up the White House to as many. Literally as many people as we can.

[Astad Herndon]

We should see this as a part of the repair of that relationship. Is that what you're saying?

[Jack Posobiec]

Reconnection.

[Astad Herndon]

Reconnection.

[Event Attendee 4]

Reconnect.

[Event Attendee 1]

Reconnect.

[Astad Herndon]

Okay.

[Jack Posobiec]

It's like. It's like, look, you know, sometimes I get a little busy girl needs date night. I take her on. I say, you know what, sweetheart? I'm putting the phone down.

[Event Attendee 5]

I'm putting it.

[Jack Posobiec]

I'm putting Twitter down. I'm putting all of it down. It's nice, just me and you.

[Astad Herndon]

It seems a little different, like, even from the times that we've talked. Like, I remember three, four years ago, we would be at scenes like this and be hearing things about Democrats and pedophiles and Democrats have, like. And now. And now we see the kind of reversal of those things. I'm saying, as someone who I think helped popularize. Is that fair to say some of those initial claims about Democrats? How is it been, is my kind of. My question now that that focus is now on Donald Trump.

[Jack Posobiec]

I think the focus now is more elite gender.

[Astad Herndon]

Okay. I would say not D or R, but elite class. I'd say it's more like that.

[Jack Posobiec]

And by the way, I said that back at the time, too, that it's always been that. And back then it was the president. So I watch every Epstein in the White House many, many, many times, and they were the ones who were perceived as the ones blocking the influence information or trying to hold it up. They both testified now. Whatever.

[Event Attendee 1]

Right.

[Jack Posobiec]

We'll see if they actually tell the truth on that. But you do see it as being something where, again, I think the, some of the initial stonewalling or the hemming and hauling out of Pam Bonnie's office, which she no longer holds is, is responsible for that.

[Event Attendee 4]

I really do.

[Astad Herndon]

He's like, that had a direct effect to the kind of scenes we even see now where like people are using those kind of insults focused on Trump and Republicans in the way that they weren't doing yet.

[Event Attendee 1]

Yeah, they were.

[Event Attendee 5]

They are.

[Jack Posobiec]

But I do think it's a little bit, it's a little bit cynical, right? Because it's like Democrats were in the White House for four years, they had

[Astad Herndon]

the whole government, they didn't anything to that.

[Jack Posobiec]

You know, okay, if you had Epstein files, give us the Epstein files, why didn't you?

[Astad Herndon]

But you mentioned kind of the centrality around war, which seems like a big reason for some of this shit, like 100%, I guess, to me. You know, I heard Trump on Meet the Press a couple weeks ago say that he did not break a promise by the actions versus the rhetoric of no more new wars. Like, I was at so many of those Trump rallies, I heard him make the argument for no new wars. How is this not a break of that promise?

[Jack Posobiec]

Well, the way I've said it is, is that this is not an Iraq style war. It's not an Afghanistan style war where you've got, you know, thousands of troops that are storming the beaches.

[Astad Herndon]

That is a war.

[Jack Posobiec]

It's a war. It's a war, but it's not a forever. Is it an operation? Sure, but it's different from the idea of a full on full scale troop deployment to a Middle Eastern country.

[Astad Herndon]

How many people believe you on that front, though? Because, I mean, even I imagine that hard that cell. Can you, can you at least say, like, is that cell getting harder to make with even Trump's own fans?

[Jack Posobiec]

No, I don't think so.

[Event Attendee 5]

Because.

[Jack Posobiec]

Because we, we do see that he hasn't put troops on the ground.

[Astad Herndon]

I want to look ahead now, like, you know, there does seem to be a unique relationship that Donald Trump has with young men or he was able to really execute that in 2024.

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah. For a guy who's turning 80 today.

[Astad Herndon]

For a guy who's turning eighty. So I'm saying, is that the same for J.D. vance? Is that the same for Marcorou? Is that the same for the people coming after Trump.

[Event Attendee 5]

You know what?

[Jack Posobiec]

There is something real special that I see whenever JD Goes and he's with the military, where it's like, he comes out there and he has this camaraderie with them that, as a veteran myself, I think is unmatched. When we take them to campus events, it's the same deal. They really look up to him, and they see him as one of theirs. He's huge in a way, in a different way than Trump has been. He understands the memes. He reads the memes. He portrays people himself as the means. He lanes all the way in. Whereas, you know, President Trump did post his Pepe meme in 2015.

[Astad Herndon]

He's more of a scroller, more of a retweet.

[Jack Posobiec]

Scroll, retweet. Whereas JD I think, has totally immersed himself in that meme culture and in that Internet culture where, you know, people criticized him for it.

[Astad Herndon]

Is that something you think Democrats can like?

[Event Attendee 1]

Well, the question is, which Democrat?

[Jack Posobiec]

And I just. I don't see a Democrat that has that right now.

[Event Attendee 4]

I really don't.

[Jack Posobiec]

I mean, James Talarico, like, get real, you know, and Gavin Newsom, he just comes across as slimy. And then Kamala Harris is trying to run again. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I just don't see who it would be.

[Astad Herndon]

Yeah, you're, like. Of those options, you're taking JD Vance particular to that relationship.

[Jack Posobiec]

Yeah, I take.

[Event Attendee 2]

Don't be a Democrat.

[Event Attendee 3]

All right, all right.

[Jack Posobiec]

I'll give you one, though. I'll give you one. You can see the Democrats trying out this. You know, hey, let's take our. Let's take a white male veteran who's

[Event Attendee 4]

also a Democrat and put them in

[Jack Posobiec]

and just get them to talk about economics Democrats. So Graham Flattner is kind of like the next iteration of that strategy. Will it stick? Will it not? We'll see. But I can. I think I'm starting to see the beginnings of a new strategy there to bring back the Blue Dog Democrat, but in a. More like Bernie Sanders populist, but.

[Astad Herndon]

But more, I guess, just man. Okay.

[Event Attendee 4]

Right.

[Astad Herndon]

And you're. So that version maybe takes now with Graham.

[Jack Posobiec]

They may have gone a little bit too far. A little bit too far, but you can see them trying to do it, and I predict they'll continue to do so.

[Astad Herndon]

Last question. Like, is there any fear you have that the combo of Epstein Iran has put him on a worse footing with that same group of young men who he was succeeding with just two years ago?

[Jack Posobiec]

Look, the numbers are softer today. There's no question about that. But that's what this is all about. That's what having the UFC here is about. So I think there may be that acknowledgment that's coming off to say, hey, we need to reconnect. Let's reconnect. Let's do it on your terms. Let's bring everyone in. Let's have that bash with, by the way, winding down Iran, which, of course is going to have that effect on gas prices that we all want.

[Astad Herndon]

That has to come alongside.

[Jack Posobiec]

It's got to come. It's gotta come. There's no question. You cannot disassociate born around with the gas prices and the economic pain people are feeling. And if you do that politically, if you try to say, well, you know, it's so important that we do this and don't worry about it, you're done. You're done. If you say, don't worry about it and don't worry about the gas prices, what helps is victory. If you have victory, then people are

[Event Attendee 4]

willing to forgive a lot.

[Jack Posobiec]

If you get a dude kind of

[Event Attendee 5]

like, you're in the ring.

[Astad Herndon]

Thank you so much, Jack. I appreciate your time. Appreciate it, man. So, Jack, agreed with our premise. Young men have softened on Donald Trump, driven by things like gas prices, the Iran war, and the Epstein files. But that doesn't make them Democrats. That just means they're a weaker demographic for Republicans, largely, and a ripe target for Democrats to look at for the midterms and the next presidential election. Jack said that we should think about events like this as an attempt for the White House to make a reconnection with important demographics, like men, and specifically young men. But he also acknowledged that none of that matters if Trump doesn't change the policy. So I'm back in New York City, and I've had a couple days to reflect on the UFC event and specifically what Jack Posobic told me about Trump's ability to command attention and dominate culture. Yes, the event was superficially successful. Thousands of attendees, the type of made for TV moment Trump loves. A signature summer event for the White House. But it was marred from a comment by UFC fighter Josh Hokut, whose statement about Michelle Obama left a permanent stain on the evening.

[Jack Posobiec]

And lastly, Michelle Obama is a man.

[Astad Herndon]

Am I right, America? Now, while the comment was condemned by UFC boss Dana White, I think it speaks to the reasons why people didn't want this to happen in the first place. There are ways to appeal to masculinity and rural American culture that aren't cruel or misogynistic. This event was not one of them. America actually will be in your feeds every Saturday with an interesting interview in culture or politics and you can also watch these episodes on the Vox YouTube channel. Just go to YouTube.com vox or click the link in the Show Notes the best way to support this show is by becoming a VOX member. Members get a bonus segment on Patreon every week and they make our work possible. Go to vox.commembers to join that's vox.commembers to join. This show was edited by Kasha Bresalian, Fact Checked by Esther Gim and mixed by Shannon Mahoney. Christopher Snyder is our video Editor and Khun Nui is our Senior Art Director. Our Executive Producer is Christina Vallis and our theme music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Additional support from Miranda Kennedy, David Tadashore and Nisha Chital. I'm Astad Herndon and this is America. Actually,

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[Jack Posobiec]

It feels good to save some hard earned cash.

[Astad Herndon]

It feels good to geico.

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