Is flying still safe?

Summary

Today, Explained: Is Flying Still Safe?
Vox Podcast Episode Released on February 27, 2025

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I. Introduction

In the episode titled "Is Flying Still Safe?", hosts Sean Rameswaram and Noel King delve into a pressing concern: the recent surge in aviation accidents and what it means for air travel safety. Amidst a series of high-profile crashes, including incidents in Washington D.C., Philadelphia, Alaska, Toronto, and Chicago, the podcast seeks to answer whether flying remains a secure mode of transportation or if the public's confidence is justifiably shaken.

II. Recent Aviation Incidents

The podcast opens with Sean Rasvoor detailing a string of alarming aviation accidents:

• D.C. Tragic Incident: Sean references a shocking crash where the president controversially blamed DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) initiatives, sparking widespread concern [00:00].

• Philadelphia Medevac Crash: A medical evacuation flight crashed mid-city, resulting in fatalities [00:00].

• Alaska Ice Floe Crash: A deadly crash occurred on an ice floe, highlighting harsh environmental challenges [00:00].

• Toronto Delta Flight: A Delta Airlines flight notably landed upside down at Pearson Airport, raising questions about pilot error and mechanical failures [00:00].

• Chicago Near-Miss: Sean mentions a recent incident where a Southwest flight almost collided with a private jet at Midway Airport, echoing a similar event at D.C.'s Reagan National Airport [00:00].

These incidents have collectively fueled public anxiety, leading many to question the safety of air travel [02:09].

III. Expert Insights on Aviation Safety

Daryl Campbell, an aviation writer for The Verge, provides an expert perspective:

“Commercial aviation remains one of the safest modes of transportation, but it does show that in order to be safe, we need to have every single part of this very complex system working in sync.”
— Daryl Campbell [02:09]

Campbell acknowledges the recent increase in crashes but emphasizes that, statistically, flying is still exceptionally safe. He points out that modern aviation safety relies on the flawless integration of numerous systems and protocols, which are occasionally stressed under unforeseen circumstances [02:09].

IV. Comparing Air Travel to Driving

Sean challenges listeners to consider whether driving might be a safer alternative amidst rising concerns:

“The chance of getting into a fatal car crash at some point in your life is a little bit less than 1 in 100. So it's like 1 in 95 or so. It's about a 1% chance.”
— Daryl Campbell [05:37]

Campbell explains that while the probability of a fatal car accident is around 1%, the risk of a fatal plane crash is exceedingly lower, down to less than 1 in 2 million. He highlights the psychological aspect where individuals feel more in control while driving, despite the higher statistical risk compared to flying [05:37].

V. Underlying Causes of Recent Crashes

The discussion shifts to the multifaceted reasons behind the recent aviation accidents:

"Each one of those things wouldn't have caused an accident by itself, but all of them happened simultaneously."
— Daryl Campbell [07:10]

Campbell details how minor issues, when compounded, can lead to disasters. For instance, factors like last-minute runway changes, pilot inexperience, communication failures, and overworked air traffic control contributed to the D.C. mid-air collision [05:59].

VI. Role and Challenges of the FAA

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) plays a pivotal role in maintaining aviation safety. However, recent budget cuts and job eliminations have raised concerns:

"The FAA's not only operation, but its ability to recruit and hire... critical function."
— John Cox [24:35]

John Cox, CEO of Safety Operating Systems and a seasoned pilot, discusses the impact of FAA's reduced funding:

• Job Cuts: Approximately 400 positions were eliminated, particularly in maintaining older radar and radio equipment [20:10].

• Staff Shortages: Air traffic control towers are experiencing shortages, with around 2,000 positions unfilled due to challenging recruitment and intense training requirements [23:08].

• Long-Term Implications: Reduced maintenance staff may lead to failures in critical systems, potentially affecting flight capacity and reliability, though not directly compromising safety [22:00].

Cox underscores the necessity for steady Congressional funding to address these systemic issues and ensure the FAA can maintain its safety standards [24:35].

VII. Expert Interview with Captain John Cox

Captain Cox provides an in-depth look into aviation operations and the factors ensuring flight safety:

"It's a symphony of motion because there's a lot of people you don't see in the background that are making every one of these flights go safely."
— John Cox [19:13]

A. Flight Operations and Safety Protocols

Cox describes the meticulous process involved in landing an aircraft:

1. Pre-Landing Preparations: Flight computers are set, and both pilots and cabin crew prepare for landing [17:11].

2. Communication and Coordination: Constant interaction with air traffic control ensures alignment with designated runways and adjustment for any traffic interference [17:02].

3. Final Landing Sequence: Slowing the aircraft below 10,000 feet, aligning with the runway, and executing a smooth landing require precise coordination [18:14].

B. FAA's Integral Role

Cox emphasizes the FAA's comprehensive involvement in aviation safety, from certifying aircraft and personnel to overseeing maintenance and air traffic control operations [19:18].

VIII. Psychological Factors Affecting Public Perception

The podcast explores why public fear around flying persists despite statistical safety:

"The human mind fixates on the stuff that you dread and the stuff that you feel like you have no control over."
— Daryl Campbell [06:14]

Campbell explains that media coverage of rare but dramatic incidents amplifies fear, leading to a disproportionate perception of risk compared to everyday activities like driving [06:14].

IX. Conclusion

The episode concludes by reaffirming that while recent aviation incidents are tragic and concerning, flying remains statistically safer than driving. However, systemic issues within the FAA and the aviation industry need addressing to prevent future accidents. Public confidence hinges not only on continued safety measures but also on transparent communication and effective management of the aviation systems [12:02].

"The safest thing for you to do is just sit in your room and not do anything all day. I think all of us want to go places, do things, and sometimes you just have to accept a little bit of risk. Fortunately, air travel is one of the least risky things that you can do."
— Daryl Campbell [10:59]

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Daryl Campbell [02:09]: "Commercial aviation remains one of the safest modes of transportation..."

• Daryl Campbell [05:37]: "But the thing about that is people are in control..."

• John Cox [19:43]: "Virtually everything the FAA is involved in..."

• John Cox [23:22]: "Well, I think the job recruiting, getting the right candidates has been a real challenge..."

• Daryl Campbell [06:14]: "The human mind fixates on the stuff that you dread and the stuff that you feel like you have no control over."

• John Cox [19:13]: "I call it a symphony of motion because there's a lot of people you don't see in the background that are making every one of these flights go safely."

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Final Thoughts

"Is Flying Still Safe?" provides a comprehensive examination of current aviation safety, balancing recent alarming incidents with expert insights that reassure the public about the overall safety of air travel. The episode underscores the importance of robust aviation systems, effective regulation by the FAA, and continuous improvements to maintain and enhance flight safety.

Transcript

[Sean Rasvoor]

First, there was the one over D.C. shocking. Tragic. The president blamed DEI. Yikes. But then they kept coming. There was that medevac flight that crashed in the middle of Philadelphia. There was a deadly crash on an ice floe in Alaska. There was the Delta flight that landed upside down at Pearson in Toronto. And then on Tuesday, while we were in a meeting talking about doing this very show, we heard a Southwest flight almost hit a private jet at Midway in Chicago. That same. The same thing more or less happened back at dca. The same airport where that helicopter crashed into a commercial flight, killing 67 people back in January. On Today Explained, we're asking the question we've all been asking. Should I really get on a plane right now? Should we just drive instead? Is it still safe to fly? What is going on with the planes? I really like landing right side up. Is that weird? This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. During tax season, your personal info travels to a lot of places, between payroll, your tax consultant, and the IRS. If your W2 gets exposed, that's just the ticket for identity thieves. That's why Lifelock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply. Friendly reminder, your taxes are due soon. Sorry to scare you, but it's true. If you are dreading April 15th like the rest of America, listen to this week's episode of Net Worth and Chill, where I cover all things taxes and show you that, yes, it can be confusing, but I promise we can get through it together. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on the your rich BFF YouTube channel. Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Welcome aboard today Exploring Plane. Sean Rasvoor here with Daryl Campbell, who writes about aviation for the Verge. We asked him if the planes are okay.

[Daryl Campbell]

I know it's been a little bit terrifying, to be honest, especially over the last 12 weeks. I think this has been the most crashes that we've seen since, I think, before the pandemic. And so when you see that, it's obviously really newsworthy and it's something that strikes a lot of fear into people's hearts. So the good news is the airplanes right now are fine. Commercial aviation remains one of the safest modes of transportation, but it does show that in order to be safe, we need to have every single part of this very complex system working in sync. And I think there's Signs that some of it is starting to show a little bit of stress.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Right. And because of that, more people than perhaps I've heard since maybe 911 in my personal life have said, I'm second guessing flying this year.

[Daryl Campbell]

Yeah. And I wouldn't blame anybody for, you know, pulling up the Amtrak website the next time that they decide that they need to take a trip. I mean, if you think about it, we've had two major crashes of a commercial airplane in North America.

[Sean Rasvoor]

A regional plane has collided with a Blackhawk helicopter. There is an active search happening in the Potomac River.

[Daryl Campbell]

You're looking at live images from Toronto's Pearson Airport. The jet appears to.

[Sean Rasvoor]

To have flipped upside down.

[Daryl Campbell]

We've had two in Asia. And then you've got this sort of ambient background of there's the air ambulance crash in Philadelphia. That's where a medical transport plane smashed.

[John Cox]

Into the ground and caused a massive explosion.

[Daryl Campbell]

The crash killed seven people and injured 19 others. And there's the planes that collided on the Runway in Scottsdale. We've learned a jet veered off the Runway after landing and crashed into a business jet. Another pair that collided in midair near Tempe. In fact, just before this, there was a Southwest Airlines airplane that it's basically involved in what's called a Runway incursion, where they were trying to land and another airplane was crossing in front of them.

[Sean Rasvoor]

The FAA says that jet entered the Runway without authorization.

[Daryl Campbell]

People are primed to look at this sort of thing right now, and especially because over the last couple years, ironically, in a bid to improve safety, every single airport has a lot of recording devices, video cameras, and so we can get video of a lot of these things happening. So it makes it a little bit more vivid. But statistically speaking, it's safer now to fly than it has been at any point since the 1960s. And even if you take the last couple of years, it's safer now to fly than it was even before the pandemic. And so even though it feels like certain things are breaking down, other things are also going right to make sure that even if in the worst case scenario, people are still able to exit the airplane without any injury or anything like that.

[Sean Rasvoor]

I mean, you made a passing reference about checking Amtrak rates, but more likely, I think, in this country especially, people are gonna drive. Instead. You are making the argument that it's still safe to get on a plane. Help me understand it in maybe comparison to driving, even with all of these incidents we've seen in the past month or so in the United States, and abroad, how much safer is it right now to fly than to drive?

[Daryl Campbell]

So your chance of getting into a fatal car crash at some point in your life is a little bit less than 1 in 100. So it's like 1 in 95 or so. It's about a 1% chance.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Okay.

[Daryl Campbell]

But the thing about that is people are in control. When they get in the driver's seat, they feel like they're the best driver on the road, that they can sort of maneuver their way around an accident that they can deal with, whatever. Whereas when you're in the back of an airplane, you're not in charge. You're in the middle of this complex system that maybe you understand, maybe you don't. And, you know, you've seen Lost.

[John Cox]

My husband keeps reminding me that planes.

[Daryl Campbell]

Want to be in the air. You've seen Flight with Denzel Washington. You've seen all of these horrible things that make you fear the worst. Whenever you feel the slightest bump, we are inverted.

[Sean Rasvoor]

I repeat, we are inverted.

[Daryl Campbell]

So that's kind of the psychological background. But statistically speaking, you could fly twice a day for about 2,500 years before you even run the risk of getting into a fatal aviation accident. So that is, I think it's like 10,000 orders of magnitude safer than just getting in your car every day. But that's not how the human mind works. The human mind fixates on the stuff that you dread and the stuff that you feel like you have no control over. So it's totally understandable, and I totally get it.

[Sean Rasvoor]

The human mind is also. I've seen it all over social media, making a connection here. Joe Biden is president for four years. Pete Buttigieg is in charge of transportation. Planes seem to mostly work. Donald Trump takes over, puts a Fox News host in charge of transportation. Elon Musk starts cutting jobs, and all of a sudden, planes are crashing. Is there there there?

[Daryl Campbell]

Yes, but not for the reasons that people think. So the one of the things to understand about aviation is, like, in the 1950s and the 1960s, airplanes would crash for reasons that now seem like boneheaded things, like they didn't really understand how to make them properly, or people didn't know how to tell the pilot that he's screwing up or anything like that. And so we've actually ironed out most of the big, obvious hazards in aviation. So paradoxically, when something happens now, it's because a lot of individual things happened, each of which reduced the margin of safety just by a little bit. But then enough of them added up so that it actually caused a disaster. In the context of the American Airlines mid air collision outside of D.C. we had a last minute Runway change. We had a pilot on the helicopter who was on what's called a checkride. So she was essentially getting tested on her abilities. We had a simultaneous radio transmission where the helicopter pilots didn't hear an important piece of information from air traffic control. And then we know that they were looking at what was probably a different airplane than the one they were tracking. So again, each one of those things wouldn't have caused an accident by itself, but all of them happened simultaneously. And then also against the background of air traffic control being understaffed and really overworked, especially at Reagan Airport, it just made all of these things line up in such a way that sort of catastrophe followed.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Okay, but you're saying that in the most tragic of all of these accidents, the one that's truly a tragedy here, you know, no disrespect to the plane that flipped over in Toronto, which was certainly scary. There were a host of reasons that plane crashed. Some of them were things that people had pointed out in the past that were just not dealt with. Some of them were, you know, like maybe a blind spot that couldn't be helped. Whatever it was, like, how do you fix a problem that is so multifaceted and how do you do it quickly so it never happens again?

[Daryl Campbell]

There's, I think, a couple of things that the aviation system already does that address that. So a lot of it is like, if you remember the movie Sully with Tom Hanks, no one has ever trained.

[John Cox]

For an incident like that. No one.

[Daryl Campbell]

And the whole frame of the movie is that they're in that hearing and they're just asking a lot of these really specific questions. Our job is to investigate how a plane ended up in the Hudson River.

[John Cox]

On the Hudson River.

[Daryl Campbell]

Well, that actually happens every time that there's an incident. And so we'll get to the bottom of this in probably between sort of six months to a year's time, but there's really not a ton of quick fixes. And I think probably the most tragic thing in the American Airlines accident above Reagan is that all of those problems that we talked about understaffing at the air traffic control center, last minute deviations in sort of a flight pat at the last minute in one of the most congested airports in the entire country, the fact that there's a military base just a couple miles where helicopters are taking off and landing, all of these things are big systemic problems. And as anybody who's worked in a big organization knows, there's just a lot of inertia that you have to get over in order to fix these things. So it is gonna take a lot of effort.

[Sean Rasvoor]

So does that mean that, you know, there's this sense that after a tragedy like this, the one that happened over dca, that, oh, maybe it's now safer to fly, though, because everyone's going to be on their best behavior. Everyone's going to be looking out for problems. But you're saying the problems here are going to take a while to fix. Does that mean that things didn't even get that much safer after what happened over DCA and in the intervening month?

[Daryl Campbell]

There's really only one way to ensure that there are no plane crashes anywhere in the world, and that's just to ground every single airplane. As long as you have people flying airplanes, there will be problems that can put people's lives in danger. You should worry about airplanes when they start to crash for the same reason. You think about the two, for example, Boeing 737 Maxs that crashed in 2018 and 2019. They crashed for the same reason that Boeing had put in this faulty piece of software that could essentially overpower pilots and rip controls away from them and cause a crash. And then they tried to cover it up right afterwards. And that's the sort of thing that you really need to worry about. I think the best consolation is that we've gotten to the point where the risk of a fatal plane crash is less than 1 in 2 million. So I'm comfortable accepting that the safest thing for you to do is just sit in your room and not do anything all day. I think all of us want to go places, do things, and sometimes you just have to accept a little bit of risk. Fortunately, air travel is one of the least risky things that you can do.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Every man dies, but not every man really lives.

[Daryl Campbell]

That's right. Some of them are just on Twitter all day.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Darrell Campbell, he's got a book coming out in April. It's called Fatal why the Managerial Class Loses Control of Software. He'll be in south by Southwest in Austin to promote it on March 8th at 11:30am And I'll be at SXSW in Austin to promote Ramy Youssef on the exact same day at the exact same time. So you can choose between us. This is your pilot speaking when we're back on Today Explained. Support for Today Explained comes from. Attentive marketers need the right tools, not just to get their message out there, but to make sure it's effective. And for that, you might want to try Attentive. Attentive is the sms, an email marketing platform that was designed to help brands build and connect with their ideal audience. Not just their audience, but their ideal audience. Attentive helps marketers create unique messages for every subscriber, transforming the consumer shopping experience and maximizing marketing performance. Here's how it works. Attentive's Advanced AI Fun learns what subscribers actually want based on their real time interactions with your brand. That helps them customize the content, tone and timing of every message so they always resonate. For messages that perform and results that transform, check out Attentive. You can visit attentive.com todayexplained to get started. Hello podcast listeners. I'm Sean Ramstorm here from the Today Explained show and I've got some news you can use. We're taking Vox Media podcasts on the road and heading Back to Austin, Texas for the south by Southwest Festival. March 8th through 10th. We'll be doing special live episodes of hit shows, including our show Today Explained. Where should we begin? With Esther Perel, Pivot, A Touch More with Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe, not just Football with Cam Hayward and more presented by Smartsheet. The Vox Media Podcast stage at south by Southwest is open to all south by Southwest badge holders. I'll be the guy in a Mr. T costume. We hope to see you at the Austin Convention center soon. You can visit voxmedia.com S X S W to learn more. That's voxmedia.com SW XSW I'm Josh Muccio, host of the Pitch, where startup founders raise millions and listeners can invest for lucky season 13 we looked at 2000 companies and selected 12 of the very best founders to pitch in Miami. They flew in from all over the country and the world. My name is Michele and I'm from Italy.

[John Cox]

I'm originally from Medellin, Colombia.

[Sean Rasvoor]

I was born and raised in Maysville, Kentucky.

[Daryl Campbell]

I'm from Baltimore, Maryland and I am from Finland.

[Sean Rasvoor]

This season we're diving even deeper into the human side of venture as these founders pitch the sharpest early stage VCs in the game. I normally don't like ed tech, but I really like you. I echo those sentiments.

[John Cox]

I do want to push back though.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Toughen up there lady. That's healthcare. I feel like I'm the lone dissenter. Oh Charles. Spicy.

[John Cox]

So I'm out.

[Sean Rasvoor]

I'm sure when they air this episode they'll be like, Charles was really dumb. For those who can't see my jaw is currently on the floor. Season 13 of the Pitch starts March 5. Episodes are available to watch on YouTube or listen on your podcast player of choice, so subscribe to the Pitch right now. Ladies and gentlemen, we have begun our descent of flight today. Explained. Please prepare for landing. You ever see up in the air 2009? In it, George Clooney is obsessed with status. Airline status, specifically. I don't spend a nickel if I can help it unless it somehow profits my mileage account. So what are you saving up for?

[Daryl Campbell]

Hawaii, south of France?

[Sean Rasvoor]

It's not like that.

[John Cox]

The miles are the goal.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Clooney's got a target. 10 million miles. If he gets there, he gets to meet the chief executive pilot. And he gets there.

[John Cox]

You're the youngest yet to hit 10 mil. Don't know where you found the time. We really appreciate your loyalty.

[Sean Rasvoor]

The chief executive pilot is played by Sam Elliot. Big gray mustache, Southern drawl. Captain John Cox is basically that pilot, but in real life, I'm John Cox.

[John Cox]

I'm the CEO of Safety Operating System, an aviation safety consulting firm.

[Sean Rasvoor]

And you also have some experience in our skies.

[John Cox]

I've been a pilot for 55 years. I flew for one of the airlines for 25 of those. For 23 of the 25, I was a captain.

[Sean Rasvoor]

When you're at 10,000ft and it's time to land, take us through that process.

[John Cox]

The process really starts hundreds of miles earlier. And that's when you're starting preparing the flight computers and everything, as well as the pilots to say, all right, we're going to land at Los Angeles. We're going to probably land on this Runway. We're probably going to get this instrument approach. All of those things. Those briefings are done in advance. And as you come down, you also want to prepare the cabin for arrival. So this is when you hear the PA announcement that says, we're about 20, 25 minutes out. Here's the weather. This is keying the flight attendants. They have a limited amount of time to make sure that the cabin is prepared for landing. That continues till you get to about 10,000ft. There's a speed restriction below 10,000, so you slow the airplane down. And this is also. You'll hear typically a chime noise. And then the flight attendants will smake.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Hi, folks. We are heading into our descent into Los Angeles. And then, please make sure your seats are in the fully upright position and.

[John Cox]

Tray tables are stowed for us on the flight deck. Things are beginning to pick up. More and more radio traffic you're being sequenced at that point for the Runway, the descent. You're descending to a lower and lower altitude, and as you get close, they'll turn you to align with the landing Runway. There may or may not be traffic ahead of you that you're looking to follow. You'll switch the autopilot off, typically get the airplane on the proper lateral and vertical guidance, and you come in and land the airplanes and then taxi to the gate. I mean, I call it a symphony of motion because there's a lot of people you don't see in the background that are making every one of these flights go safely.

[Sean Rasvoor]

How much of what you just described involves the faa?

[John Cox]

Virtually everything the FAA is involved in. The oversight and certification of the airplane, of the certification of the pilots, the flight attendants, the maintenance staff, the flight dispatchers, the air traffic controllers. All of these key jobs interface with the faa. The FAA as the regulator is a key component to aviation safety.

[Sean Rasvoor]

And now, just as Americans, perhaps in greater numbers than we've seen in a decade or two, are feeling nervous about getting on a plane, are feeling less secure about the FAA, Doge has gone and eliminated something like 400 jobs from this agency. Can you help us understand what some of the jobs that got the axe were?

[John Cox]

They reduce the number of new hired maintainers of radio and radar equipment. And our system is an older system, and it requires a good bit of maintenance. So the biggest concern in the near term is that we're going to have radios or things that fail, and that will limit the air traffic controller in being able to accept more flights. So the problems are going to show up. It may not be today or tomorrow or in the short term, but the maintenance staff for our older radar and radio facilities throughout the country, they're going to be impacted.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Our transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, the new one, the guy from, like, the MTV reality TV shows, as we're sitting on the boat and hanging out, and all of a sudden I see Montana, like, looking at me like she's going to unzip her vest and show me a boob, has said that none of these jobs that were eliminated at FAA were terribly critical to safety. All the critical safety positions, like air traffic controllers and inspectors, all of those positions have been protected. No one's been fired. Actually, we're hiring into those spaces. And it sounds like you're agreeing with him. You someone who has decades more experience than him in this world, agree?

[John Cox]

Well, there is a definition for safety. Critical jobs. Pilots, flight attendants, aircraft maintenance technicians, flight dispatchers. Those are all Designated as safety critical jobs and none of those were reduced. Air traffic controllers safety critical job none of those were reduced. The definition that was used of a safety critical job, it's true that the maintenance of the equipment that air traffic control uses that was not considered to be a safety critical position. In the short term we have key and critical components that have been maintained to a given standard. If we don't have the number of maintainers, then not all of that maintenance is going to get done. What it will affect in the longer term is the ability for air traffic control. As an example, to be able to take as many flights if they have a radar outage or a radio outage in an area, traffic will have to be routed around that area. Can it be done safely? Yes. Will it impact capacity? Yes. And if you take it to the extreme, the capacity cutbacks could mean fewer flights that people have choices from and potentially even higher prices. But the reliability factor is more on the capacity side than the safety side.

[Sean Rasvoor]

We also at the same time have been hearing for years that air traffic control towers have struggled with staffing that were something like 2,000 air traffic controllers short, according to the FAA. Why is that?

[John Cox]

Well, I think the job recruiting, getting the right candidates has been a real challenge. Being an air traffic controller is a intense, highly trained position and to get through the training process and to become a full performance level controller takes years. Most air traffic controllers right now or many of them are working six days a week and if they put in for vacation time, they may or may not get it. And this doesn't happen once, it happens frequently. So the attraction of getting the highest qualified people, when you have that sort of work, life balance issue becomes more difficult. And part of it has been funding. And the issue with FAA funding goes back many decades.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Billions in automatic spending cuts approved by Congress have prompted the Federal Aviation Administration to cut funding to staff air traffic control task. The first nationwide ground stoppage since 911 now traced to an FAA system failure undergoing routine maintenance.

[Daryl Campbell]

The FAA was merely under resourced, which.

[John Cox]

Has been a continuing mantra. The steady funding from Congress is critical to the FAA's not only operation, but its ability to recruit and hire. And one of those positions is air traffic control. If we could take the political considerations out of it and provide a steady funding source, saying that this is a critical function, very many of the FAA's problems would go away slowly. We would be able to get and recruit air traffic controllers, we can update the equipment. All of this is going to take time. The root of this is steady Congressional funding for the faa.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Has anyone come to you in the past few weeks and said, you know, Captain, I'm really nervous about getting on a plane right now for the first time in my life, for the first time since 9 11. Have you heard that from people? I have.

[John Cox]

I've heard that. But as an example, I was coming back home and we were letting down into our home airport and there was a lady seated next to me. She was much more worried about the fact that it was getting pretty bumpy and she was getting less and less comfortable to the point it was fear, but it was due to the turbulence. And I talked to her and explained who I was and helped her get through that. So when you think of how many components come into a safe flight, we've had a couple of bad events in the last few months. There's a heightened interest in the media and consequently, there's a heightened reporting back into the public. There is a disproportionate amount of concern, almost fear, but people will go get in a car, recognizing that we're going to lose 44,000 people this year in automobile accidents. And somehow that's okay. So when you balance this out, my biggest concern on any flight, as far as safety goes, is the drive to and from the airport.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Captain Cox, thank you so much for your time.

[John Cox]

My pleasure.

[Sean Rasvoor]

Captain John Cox, pilot CEO of Safety Operating Systems. Victoria Chamberlain and Gabrielle Burbet made this today explained. Aminah Al Saadi edited. Laura Bullard, fact Checked. And Patrick Boyd and Andrea Christen's daughter mixed. Safe travels. Watch out for the cars.