“It must suck to be young”

Summary

Podcast Summary: “It must suck to be young”

Podcast: Today, Explained (Vox)
Episode Date: August 4, 2026
Host: Noel King
Location: Michigan

Overview

This episode of Today, Explained explores the political climate among young Americans, focusing on Michigan—a state that has seen some of the highest youth voter turnout in the nation. Through interviews with young voters, political candidates, and state officials, the episode examines why youth participation in politics is surging, what issues matter most to Gen Z, and the pervasive sense of cynicism and disillusionment many young people feel about the current system. The discussion is anchored in the context of the 2026 primaries, the rise of populist Democrats, debates over Israel and Gaza, and the generational impact of leaders like Donald Trump.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise of Young, Angry Populists

• Context: Populist Democrats are unseating centrist party members in primary races, notably in New York and Colorado, and now in Michigan.
• Notable primary battle: Abdul El Sayed (progressive, populist, and critic of both Israel and his own party) vs. centrist Haley Stevens, bolstered by over $30 million in AIPAC funding.
• Cynicism about the system:

  “What’s worse? The people who actually come and tell you that they just want to take nice things away from you? Or the people who tell you that they want to give nice things to you only to be paid for by the people who want to take nice things away from you?”
  — Abdul El Sayed (00:28)

• Youth disaffection: Young voters are resonating with anti-establishment messages, not for ideology alone, but out of frustration with what they perceive as pervasive hypocrisy.

2. Michigan: A Case Study in Youth Voter Turnout

• Stat: In the last midterm, Michigan had the highest youth voter turnout in the US (02:29).
• Why?
  • Pre-registration for 16- and 17-year-olds:

    “When you go in Michigan, we do the graduated driver's licensing program...as part of that process, we pre-register you to vote. It's automatic unless you opt out.”
    — Ogo Adevier, Michigan Deputy Secretary of State (05:34)

  • On-campus efforts: Full-time university staff work to boost turnout.
  • Same-day voter registration: Reduces friction and allows late deciders to participate.
• Political diversity:

  “Right now in this state, we have an opportunity for people to be persuaded. That’s why we’re a purple state.”
  — Ogo Adevier (06:23)

3. Young Voters: Motivations, Disillusionment, and Party Ambivalence

• Issue Complexity: Many young people don’t fit neat left-right binaries.
  • Some support Democrats for social issues (LGBTQ rights) but lean Republican on welfare.
  • Strong issue-based splits: anti-war, inflation, rent, health care, and Gaza are key topics (07:48–08:56).
• Cynicism about both parties:

  “I don’t think either party truly has my best interest at heart.”
  — Young Voter 1 (08:56)

• Economic anxiety:

  “I'm spending 80% of my income just on rent. It's like, what else do I have to live off of?”
  — Young Voter 1 (09:48)

  • Expectations vs. reality: Repeated unmet promises on prices and cost of living feed mistrust.
• The “Bullshit Meter”:

  “You guys, your generation has a fantastic bullshit meter because you're fed bullshit online all day, right?”
  — Abdul El Sayed (10:38)

4. The El Sayed Impact: Campaigning on Brokenness

• His approach: Openly critical of the Democratic Party, wages an anti-hypocrisy campaign.
• On the Gaza issue:

  “I think every 19 year old, you know, is looking at their future and saying, wait, so my tax dollars are being spent to do that? And I can't ever dream of owning a home or working in an economy that's going to pay me fairly.”
  — Abdul El Sayed (13:03)

• Generational despair:

  “I think it's probably the worst moment in American history to be young. And that's a sad thing.”
  — Abdul El Sayed (13:51)

  • Young people feel hopeless, denied stable futures and economic security, and made to bear costs for foreign wars and climate inaction (14:03).

5. Friendships, Disagreement, and Division in Gen Z

• Interview: Oscar Honka and William Dodson, both 17, discuss friendship and political division.
  • Politics is not taboo, but a point of tension—even for best friends (18:37–21:14).
  • Social media’s impact: Both attest to the normalization of heated debates and exposure to more political content (21:05–22:11).
• Arguments over Israel/Gaza:

  “It's one of the most angering things that anyone can tell me, really... It also just seems so obvious to me.”
  — Oscar Honka (19:33)

• Fear of ending friendships?

  “If we didn't talk about it and then we just had one debate, that could be way more severe... but the fact that we've always been open to it and always been talking about it, it's way more normal.”
  — William Dodson (26:10)

• Trump’s effect:
  • Trump has been the central political figure of their lives.
  • A nostalgic yearning is expressed for a time when politics were less vitriolic and more civil (24:18–25:14).

6. The Lasting Impact of Trump and Polarization

• Generational divide:
  • Noel King observes that for her generation, political debate among friends was unthinkable as a teenager; now, it’s front and center (23:22–23:58).
  • Both teens acknowledge the “farther left and farther right” polarization among Gen Z (25:26).
• Hope and skepticism: Oscar remains optimistic about America’s resilience (25:14), while William worries polarization will worsen.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Hypocrisy generally is worse than just straight mendacity.”
  — Abdul El Sayed (00:42)
• “We have all the technology we ever needed to stop [climate change], and they're being told the earth is doomed.”
  — Abdul El Sayed (14:03)
• “Honestly, fuck all you guys and learn to compromise. You're supposed to represent the people and what the people want.”
  — Young Voter 1 (09:48)
• “We need politicians who will actively fight against [what’s happening in Gaza] and who are actively calling it out for what it is, which is a genocide.”
  — Young Voter 1 (08:54)
• “It's probably the worst moment in American history to be young.”
  — Abdul El Sayed (13:51)
• “As bad as it is, it's been worse... we've gotten out of it. I feel very confident that we will be fine as a country.”
  — Oscar Honka (25:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:00: Show setup; populist Democrats displacing centrists.
• 02:18–03:50: On the ground in Michigan interviewing young voters at a baseball game.
• 04:00–06:00: Michigan’s voting outreach initiatives discussed with Ogo Adevier.
• 07:19–09:48: Young people discuss their ideological divides and economic concerns.
• 10:38–14:36: Interview with Abdul El Sayed—his messaging, impact, and connection to frustrated young voters.
• 18:37–27:02: Oscar and William’s friendship; how politics divides and binds Gen Z.

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Candid, frustrated, sometimes profane: Young voters and guests speak their minds freely, sometimes with anger, sometimes with resignation, and often with humor and candor.
• Reflective: Both host and guests frequently pause to consider how politics, economics, and generational experience have changed.
• Energetic and conversational: The host weaves between interviews, on-site observations, and reflections on generational politics.

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Takeaways

• Michigan’s high youth engagement is largely the result of structural reforms—automatic pre-registration and on-campus outreach—not merely cultural differences.
• Populist candidates like El Sayed are capitalizing on widespread youth disillusionment with the political system, particularly frustrations with economic policy and foreign intervention.
• Gen Z’s political identity is marked less by left-right allegiance and more by skepticism, issue-based voting, and a high tolerance for debate—even among friends.
• The shadow of Donald Trump looms large for this generation; his presence has normalized political discord as a daily, even formative, part of younger Americans’ lives.
• Despite polarization and gloom, some young people remain hopeful for the country’s future and confident in their friendships’ resilience.

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Transcript

[Noel King]

Populist Democrats have displaced centrist Dems in New York and Colorado in primaries this summer. They are young and angry and taking aim at a system they say is rigged. And in Michigan today, here we go again. The centrist Democrat, Haley Stevens is under fire for this.

[Young Voter 1]

Israel comes to me in my dreams.

[Noel King]

And for the more than $30 million AIPAC has spent boosting her campaign. Her opponent, Abdel Al Said, is a critic of Israel and a critic of his own party.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Like what's worse? The people who actually come and tell you that they just want to take nice things away from you? Or the people who tell you that they want to give nice things to you only to be paid for by the people who want to take nice things away from you?

[Noel King]

I feel like you're saying, what's worse, the Democratic Party or the Republican Party? Is that what you're saying?

[Abdul El Sayed]

Listen, hypocrisy generally is worse than just straight mendacity.

[Noel King]

His message is resonating deeply with young people today on Today Explained from Vox. We go to Michigan to talk to young people about why the left's emerging populism is hitting

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[William Dodson]

Which of the political parties do you

[Oscar Honka]

identify with if either I identify as whatever's gonna make me the most money.

[Noel King]

Who's that right now?

[Oscar Honka]

I have no ide.

[Noel King]

It's Today Explained. I'm Noel King, recently producer Peter Balinon Rosen and I skittered through the swing state of Michigan trying to answer a question. All right, so last midterm cycle four years ago, Michigan distinguished itself by having the highest youth voter turnout in any state of these United States of America. What is going on?

[Ogo Adevier]

Third baseman, number 12, Chase Harlan.

[Noel King]

We went to find the youngs. That's ages 18 to 29, if you're wondering.

[Young Voter 1]

I just need to start chucking this.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Two Coors Lights, $6.

[Noel King]

Bab. Thirsty. Thursday, Lansing, lug nuts. Minor league baseball, country night, drink in your hand, cowboy hat on your head. Peter, in your face.

[William Dodson]

Do you vote?

[Abdul El Sayed]

Do I vote?

[Ogo Adevier]

Yeah, I vote.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Why do you vote?

[Sponsor Voice]

Why?

[William Dodson]

Because I'm American.

[Noel King]

I care about our country.

[Young Voter 1]

I do go. But I don't want to. You gotta make a bigger effort than just throwing up an ad on a TV and expecting us to vote for you. Like, I want to hear about your voice, your policies, what you want to do, the transparency with your finance. I want to know, because that is my vote. This is Michigan. And I want to be important. And I want to. I want my vote to go to the right place.

[Ogo Adevier]

Get on your feet, make some noise if you want a free hot dog.

[Noel King]

Okay, so Michigan is doing something right? The last midterm cycle, the Michigan Utes voted double the rate that young people in Indiana or Louisiana or Idaho did, for example. So what is happening? What is happening in Michigan? Who will take credit? Perhaps one of the state officials in charge of voting.

[Ogo Adevier]

My name is Ogo Adevier and I am the Michigan Deputy Secretary of State.

[Noel King]

Historically, young people do not vote in numbers as great as older people do. Right. Some of the highest patterns of young people voting are found in this state. What is Michigan doing that other states are not doing?

[Ogo Adevier]

Well, there are a couple of things, including Pre registration for 16 and 17 year olds.

[Noel King]

Wait, so in Michigan, you can register to vote at 16.

[Ogo Adevier]

You can pre register to vote.

[Noel King]

You can pre register to vote at 16.

[Ogo Adevier]

Because I want to make sure that the other people who are listening in don't think we're breaking the laws here. We allow it.

[Noel King]

Is 2026 fair?

[Young Voter 1]

Fair.

[Ogo Adevier]

It's 2026. We have, you know, we only. Only in the facts, ma'.

[Young Voter 2]

Am.

[Ogo Adevier]

But yeah, once you turn 16, you can pre register to vote. And then Once you turn 18, your registration is good.

[Noel King]

Wait, okay. Yes, but here you need to tell me something, because my top priority was getting my driver's license. I failed the test three times before I got. Did you pass on the first try?

[Ogo Adevier]

I did but okay, it's probably good to be a future deputy secretary of state.

[Noel King]

Okay, so priorities when you're 16, getting a driver's license, maybe hooking up with someone, maybe if you had said pre register to vote, I would have been like, what? Like, what are 16 year olds in Michigan so special that they're like running out to pre register to vote when there's all this other fun stuff going on?

[Ogo Adevier]

But the first thing you said, what was the first thing you said? That your priority?

[Noel King]

Getting my driver's license.

[Ogo Adevier]

It's part of that process too.

[Noel King]

Wait, what?

[Ogo Adevier]

So when you go in Michigan, we do the graduated driver's licensing program, which I'm sure that you did. As part of that process, we pre register you to vote. It's automatic unless you opt out. On top of that, our bigger colleges, they have dedicated university staff who have a full time job of boosting turnout on their campuses. On top of that, we have same day voter registration.

[Noel King]

A lot of people assume, and I think this is because of data, that young people tend to vote Democrat versus Republican. I would think perhaps if I were in the Republican Party, I might look at these efforts and say, oh, this is going to get more young Democratic votes. That might be a problem for me. How did Michigan keep this, if it did, from becoming a partisan issue?

[Ogo Adevier]

Well, I certainly think that is the stereotype and that's the narrative, but I don't think that's always correct. I traveled a lot around the state in 2024, and one of the things that I was hearing from a lot of young people, especially young people who weren't on college campuses, was I'm concerned about inflation. And those people were not necessarily inclined to vote Democratic. Some of them did end up voting Democrat, some of them voted Republican, and some of them just stayed home. So it's really, I challenge anyone who sees this as just a way to bank Democratic votes to actually talk to the young people. Right now in this state, we have an opportunity for people to be persuaded. That's why we're a purple state.

[Noel King]

The thing about a purple state is that it's split almost evenly between Republicans and Democrats. The thing Peter and I found in Michigan is that this year some of the young people are themselves split between Republican and Democrat.

[Young Voter 2]

I think the Democrat Republicans party represents me with a lot of the green lights that they have for people of my community, of the LGBT community.

[Noel King]

But however, for this community college student with two jobs and rent to pay,

[Young Voter 2]

groceries have really inclined a lot. I've, you know, myself had to kind of participate with a little bit of government assistance because of that as well. And even that has now come with rules, regulations, and guidelines as well, which I don't disagree with. And I think that is a part where I kind of like, okay, turn an open ear to a little bit of the Republican Parties of that of people getting benefits and they're not like, working just free freeloading.

[Noel King]

Okay, who else?

[Abdul El Sayed]

I very. I'm very big on life. I don't want to step on toes like the abortion topic. You know, I feel like everybody has

[Noel King]

a right to live based on that alone. I would have a guess about which party you tend to sort of gravitate to, but let me not guess it.

[Abdul El Sayed]

I wouldn't say Republican, because there's obviously a lot of things with the Republican Party that I disagree with.

[William Dodson]

Like, I'm against the war.

[Abdul El Sayed]

I'm really anti war, which I feel some of my Republicans are very pro war.

[Noel King]

Seeing what's been happening in Gaza, that is a very large issue for me. And it can often be determining whether I like or don't like a candidate. We need politicians who will actively fight against that and who are actively calling

[Young Voter 1]

it out for what it is, which is a genocide.

[Noel King]

I don't think either party truly has my best interest at heart. That sentiment, neither party is really concerned about me, was something that we heard in Michigan a lot. And so it's no surprise, maybe, that some recent surveys show the most defining shift in political attitudes among young people in the last decade. It is not to the left or to the right. It's that growing numbers of young people tell pollsters they don't believe their vote matters at all. And they see a direct link between their lack of voice and their ability to make the rent.

[Young Voter 1]

Everything is so expensive right now. You know, presidents always have these that they make. Like, oh, prices are gonna go down for, you know, groceries, rent, whatever. Like, that doesn't always happen.

[Noel King]

And then we see the gas prices keep going up, we see groceries keep going up.

[Young Voter 1]

I mean, I have to pick up

[Noel King]

more hours, obviously, pick up a second job.

[Young Voter 1]

I'm spending 80% of my income just on rent. It's like, what else do I have to live off of? And I think that our politicians should be keeping track of that. Honestly, fuck all you guys and learn to compromise. You're supposed to represent the people and what the people want.

[Noel King]

So I'm hearing that you think the

[Abdul El Sayed]

system's a little busted.

[Young Voter 1]

Oh, of course. The system's corrupted either side. I think it's corrupted you kind of Just have to start the whole thing.

[Noel King]

We started by telling you that in Michigan, young people vote at higher rates than in other states. And that is true. But it's still only about 4 in 10 young people who do vote. And this growing sense that it's all corrupt is not going to help turnout. So what do you do if you are the person running for office? Young people are disillusioned. Their votes are up for grabs. How are you going to grab them?

[Abdul El Sayed]

You guys, your generation has a fantastic bullshit meter because you're fed bullshit online all day, right? And you can usually tell bullshit from truth.

[Noel King]

That is doctor, but not a physician. Abdul El Sayed. The polls show him leading with young likely voters by wide margins. More than 60% in some polls say they'll vote for him. He's definitely trying. His campaign holds events, specific people under 30.

[Abdul El Sayed]

The Democratic Party brand is so bullshit that everyone looks at this and you're like, are you kidding? Like, you all, please be serious.

[Noel King]

His centrist opponent, Haley Stevens, who did not respond to our request for an interview, points to language like that and says El Sayed is too radical. Maybe some of this is just the ugliness of this particular campaign, but it's conceivable that El Sayed's rise is only possible in the year 2026. This man is a populist of the left. He talks about blowing up a broken system and he identifies brokenness in the things that until very recently were kind of business as usual for the Democratic Party and for people who vote Democrat. Things like support for Israel, begrudging acceptance of corporate money, belief in institutions, institutions like the Democratic Party. El Said is not that Democrat and his audience is not that audience. What do you think you said today that resonated most? Tell me what you think. I'm going to tell you what I think.

[Abdul El Sayed]

I think it was the notion that I'm not going to back down on a lot of the priors, that a lot of politics as usual thinks that you have to agree with in order to be electable.

[Noel King]

I was watching. I think the thing you said that resonated most was the Democratic Party is full of a lot of bullshit. It was. It was your line.

[Abdul El Sayed]

And that's kind of exactly what I mean, is that like, if you want to run as a Democrat, there's a way that the. The party sort of expects you to run. They expect you to be taking money from the same corporations, to follow the same party line, and then to be malleable when you actually get to public office. And What I'm trying to do is to show that our party is so much more successful when we are really are about the things that we say we're about.

[Noel King]

You're one of the leading voices who's been critical of aid to Israel and who's been drawing attention to Gaza as a campaign issue in a campaign where you really could have just been focused on like the rent and health care.

[Abdul El Sayed]

Those things are related, though.

[Young Voter 1]

Yeah.

[Noel King]

Tell me, tell me what you think is going on. Why is every 19 year old I talked to talking to me about Gaza?

[Abdul El Sayed]

I think every 19 year old to know has seen images of dead children on their phone from Gaza. I think every 19 year old, you know, is wondering why they or their parents tax dollars were spent to do that. And I think every 19 year old, you know is looking at their future and saying, wait, so my tax dol are being spent to do that? And I can't ever dream of owning a home or working in an economy that's going to pay me fairly.

[Noel King]

Young people in Michigan, it's part of the reason we're here. They vote in greater numbers than a lot of other states. 4 in 10, 3.8 in 10. Do you think young people can kind of put you over the edge here? Do you think young people can win this race for you?

[Abdul El Sayed]

Ask me on August 5th. And more importantly, young people own the future. They are going to dictate what future they want. They're going to be the future.

[Noel King]

You're trying to get in good with them. No, I'm joking.

[Abdul El Sayed]

I just like. No, no, look, I, I think it's probably the worst moment in American history to be young. And that's a sad thing. Absolutely.

[Young Voter 1]

Why?

[Abdul El Sayed]

As a young person, you should have hope in the future. You're going to live. They're being told that there are no homes for them. They're being told that the earth is doomed because we can't figure out how to stop burning stuff into the air, even though we have all the technology we ever needed to stop doing it. They're being told that you can't have health care in America and that the best thing that America can do is send its tax dollars abroad to go kill other people. So must suck to be young.

[Noel King]

It must suck to be young, says the guy the young people are voting for. Is this not reminiscent of American carnage and the deep dissatisfaction that fed populism on the right? It might even remind you just a little of Donald Trump, who told us how bad our lives were before we voted him into office twice. When we return. The thing about being young in the US Donald Trump has been the defining political character in American life for almost your entire life. What does that do to a person?

[Young Voter 1]

Foreign.

[Noel King]

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This is today.

[Noel King]

Explained.

[Oscar Honka]

My name's Oscar Honka and I'm 17 years old.

[William Dodson]

My name is William Dodson and I'm 17 years old.

[Noel King]

Okay. How long have you guys been friends?

[Oscar Honka]

Like eighth grade?

[William Dodson]

Yeah, yeah, eighth grade.

[Oscar Honka]

About four years.

[Noel King]

Four years. All right, Oscar, tell me what Will is like.

[Oscar Honka]

He's a really good friend. I would say he's probably like the most charismatic person I know. Like, very high energy guy, but in a good way.

[Noel King]

Will, tell me about Oscar.

[William Dodson]

I think he's someone you can lean on so much. And he's funny and kind. Like, he's just like a great person to be around.

[Oscar Honka]

Thank you, bro.

[Noel King]

When you do argue, typically, what is it about?

[Oscar Honka]

It's not strictly limited to, but mostly limited to Israel versus Palestine.

[William Dodson]

I would say probably our worst debate was in the parking lot waiting for our friend debating. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Sponsor Voice]

Oh, yeah.

[William Dodson]

That was pretty bad.

[Noel King]

What was that about?

[William Dodson]

So we were waiting on Bobby.

[Oscar Honka]

Is that what you're talking about?

[William Dodson]

Yeah, we were waiting on our good friend Bobby. Let's just say Bobby got into a pretty heated car.

[Oscar Honka]

When he finally got there, I probably got mad. He probably said something about like there not being a genocide in Palestine, which makes me mad. I just. It makes. It's one of the most angering things that anyone can tell me, really. I just. It's because I've seen so many stories of just children being amputated without anesthesia. And it just. It also just seems so obvious to me. Like, even if it wasn't a thing so serious as genocide, it'll also make me mad if someone said the sky wasn't blue. Like, yes, I don't have a personal stake in that. But also, it's just objectively not true in my opinion. And it just makes me upset. And to deny it is frustrating to me.

[William Dodson]

I was someone who would be like, okay, let me Google the 10 necessary steps, because that's like 10 necessary steps for a genocide. And then I'd be like a stickler.

[Oscar Honka]

I'd Be like, oh, wait, this is not nine out of the ten prongs.

[William Dodson]

And then I would like, well. And then I'd be like, well, one of them doesn't fit, so I guess it's not. And so that would be just my. That was my approach for very long.

[Oscar Honka]

And I probably said like, Israel shouldn't exist, which makes him mad. I don't believe that anymore, I don't think. Yeah, there's been times where I've been mad at him. I didn't talk to him for like a day or two. I'll be like, I'm so upset. I don't want to talk to this guy ever again. And then he's like, you wanna play pickleball? And I'm like, well, I kind of do wanna play pickleball, so let's, let's, let's go.

[William Dodson]

Really what I'm more concerned about is just, I think there's been like, a lot of anti Semitism, and I see it more common than I've ever seen before. Like, I. You can't, like, especially, like at school, I'll see it like, it's constant on social media and all the comments are just blame antisemitism.

[Oscar Honka]

I would agree with that. I've seen a lot of anti Semitism on social media. Social media comments are a pretty gross place.

[Noel King]

Is either one of you Jewish?

[Oscar Honka]

No.

[Noel King]

Why does Israel and this fight feel so personal?

[William Dodson]

I think I just see it as like, I'm not really fighting for Israel or like, saying I'm more sticking up just for really the Jewish people. And because, like, my generation of course supports Palestine. I support Palestine of course too. But, like, I think it's like, no one's saying anything now. And like, if there's anti Semitism, no one says anything. Like, everyone just turns their head. There's no one being like, hey, you shouldn't say this, or you, like, that's a horrible thing to say.

[Noel King]

Is it normal these days when you're a teenager, even in your late teens, to be arguing about politics?

[Oscar Honka]

I don't think that we're special. I think that this generation, at least from what I've experienced, knows more about politics, probably because of social media to some extent. But I think that to argue with politics is less common. I think it's more common that you know a lot about politics, but you agree with most of your friends.

[Noel King]

So one option for two friends who like just about everything about each other but on political issues disagree, is to never talk about it.

[Oscar Honka]

No, we can't. I don't okay, tell me more. I wouldn't want to do that. I think. I don't, like. I really don't like debating people. It takes a lot of energy out of me. I don't think it's fun for the most part, but I do think it's, like, necessary. And I think we all would agree.

[William Dodson]

I feel like I have to push

[Oscar Honka]

back against people who believe, in my opinion, very stupid things, even though I don't want to.

[Noel King]

There is a truth. You guys are both 17?

[Oscar Honka]

Yes.

[Noel King]

Okay. The American president, Donald John Trump, has been our leading political figure since you guys were children.

[Oscar Honka]

Now, I remember very clearly watching the debates with him and Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz when I was little at my old house.

[Noel King]

Do you remember what you thought?

[Oscar Honka]

No, because, I mean, I remember thinking that dad doesn't like that guy.

[William Dodson]

And then I really liked Hillary Clinton. She was my girl. Like, I really. I really liked Hillary Clinton. And so that was. So. I remember me and my mom would sit down and watch debates, and just like, I. I was very interested. And early on, I was like, this guy just sucks. And I'm like. And when Hillary Clinton lost, it was kind of a very upsetting day for me.

[Noel King]

So before Donald Trump, you don't remember it? Your dad does. America was not divided over politics the way it is now. Yes, Americans always debated politics. It was always like, Republican versus Democrat, but it definitely was not the tone and the tenor that it is now. And I sometimes think that might be part of. When I was 17, it would have been unthinkable for me and my friends to have, like, a debate over politics. We have a debate over, like, boys or, like, party of five. But Paula, no. Like, there just was. No. We didn't even, like, not even, like, we don't agree or we agree on we, like. I don't know what my best friend in high school thought about, like, abortion

[Oscar Honka]

just wouldn't even cross your mind.

[Noel King]

Exactly, exactly. Like, okay, so, but this is my point, right? Like, Trump changed some stuff.

[Oscar Honka]

Yes.

[Noel King]

One thing I'm curious about is I feel like you both kind of know that in some ways, yeah, 100%. But you've never seen life without it. You've never seen life without Donald Trump being a leading voice in this country.

[Oscar Honka]

I've definitely seen clips on Instagram or of civil debates between two presidential nominees how John McCain would shake Obama's hand and say, he's a good person, good guy, things like that. I've seen glimpses of what it was like a little bit before our time

[William Dodson]

I would have loved to watch a debate where the people are respectful to each other. And I mean, I, I, of course, I never really experienced it, but I think our country's super, super divided right now. And, like, you can see elections before they're nice to each other, they're in. Like when there was this clip from some random race and the people didn't add together. And like, it was two different opposing parties, but they didn't add together. And people reposting. This is like, this is so crazy. This is so amazing because they're so disillusioned with how MAGA and like, versus, like, like Trump versus Kamala was. And then people. And some of the people in the comments, like, this is how it kind of used to be. Like, so that's beautiful.

[Oscar Honka]

As bad as it is, it's. It's been worse. If you look back to 1860s, right? Like, we've been in worse spots and we've gotten out of it. I feel very confident that we will be fine as a country.

[William Dodson]

I actually am a little concerned because I think there's. It's actually starting to get even more far left and far right. So it's kind of more division. Like, you see a rise in, like, democratic socialism. I mean, the right really does not like that. Like, you have like, your Hasan pikers, but in the far right you have your, like, Nick Fuentes'. So it's like Gen Z is starting to take that really far left and really far right. I don't know if it's gonna keep going like this, but it looks like the trajectory is bringing more and more, I think, farther apart.

[Noel King]

Do either of you ever fear that you will have a disagreement about politics that ends the friendship?

[Oscar Honka]

I don't. I think. No, I don't think so.

[William Dodson]

I think if we didn't talk about it and then we just had one debate, that could be way more severe because we would have way. We'd have way more extreme opinions and we would be like, this would be the first time we're hearing it and we could start going off on each other, but the fact that we've always been open to it and always been talking about it, it's like, way more normal.

[Young Voter 1]

And.

[William Dodson]

And I think as time goes on, we'll have way less and less arguments unless something crazy happens, but it's usually just way less. And like, we're. I'm seeing less and less arguments from us. Like, maybe two months ago, we were having, I feel like, way more.

[Oscar Honka]

I'd say that was the worst.

[Noel King]

You're going to senior year.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yes.

[William Dodson]

Yes.

[Noel King]

Okay, so here's the most important question. Will this friendship survive college?

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[William Dodson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Noel King]

You guys are like hopefully 25, 30. You're still friends?

[Oscar Honka]

Yeah. He's going to. I think we'll be probably a little bit far away from each other. I want to go to college in D.C. he wants to go to Western. But I mean, we'll be back for the summer. We're definitely going to have sleepovers at Bobby's in college during the summer. I would hope so.

[Ogo Adevier]

Yeah.

[William Dodson]

Hopefully.

[Oscar Honka]

Awesome.

[Noel King]

Thank you guys. It was really fun. It was really interesting. Peter balin on rosen produced and reported with me in michigan. Jolie myers was our editor today. Patrick boyd and david tadashore engineered and gabriel donatov was on fax. I'm noel king. It's today explained.

[Sponsor Voice]

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