It’s not easy being Greenland

Summary

Today, Explained: It’s Not Easy Being Greenland

Release Date: January 23, 2025 | Hosts: Noel King and Sean Rameswaram

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Introduction

In the January 23, 2025 episode of Today, Explained, Vox delves into the escalating rhetoric surrounding former U.S. President Donald Trump's persistent interest in purchasing Greenland. Hosts Noel King and Josh Keating explore the historical context, strategic motivations, and the responses from Greenland and Denmark to understand the complexities of this geopolitical issue.

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Trump’s Persistent Interest in Greenland

The episode opens with Noel King outlining Donald Trump's long-standing and increasingly vocal interest in acquiring Greenland, a self-governing territory within the Kingdom of Denmark. Trump’s fascination with Greenland dates back to 2019 and has intensified since his re-election.

[00:02] Noel King: "Greenland is a self-governing territory and part of the Kingdom of Denmark. Donald Trump is the President of America and since 2019 he's been expressing romantic interest in Greenland."

Trump’s rationale, as highlighted by Josh Keating, centers on Greenland’s strategic importance to the United States.

[00:13] Josh Keating: "Strategically for the United States it would be nice and we're a big ally of Denmark and we help Denmark."

Following his re-election, Trump has amplified his rhetoric, prompting strong reactions from Danish officials and sparking international attention.

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Historical Context and Precedents

Josh Keating provides a historical backdrop, noting that the concept of the U.S. acquiring Greenland is not novel. The idea dates back to President Harry Truman, who entertained similar notions in the early 20th century. Despite these past considerations, the proposal has consistently been rejected by Denmark.

[02:36] Josh Keating: "This is something that's been discussed for many years. Harry Truman had the idea of Greenland. I had the idea. Other people have had the idea. It goes back into the early 1900s. But Harry Truman."

The Danish government's firm stance against selling Greenland underscores the geopolitical tensions such proposals can ignite.

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Strategic and Economic Motivations

The strategic importance of Greenland is multifaceted. With climate change melting Arctic ice, new shipping lanes and natural resources, including vital minerals like lithium and rare earth elements, are becoming accessible. These resources are crucial for the global green transition and reducing dependence on Chinese supply chains.

[04:44] Nya Nathanielson: "There's an increased focus on the Arctic. Russia has been building military bases, and China is expanding its commercial interests. Greenland’s mineral wealth could reduce dependence on China for critical minerals."

Additionally, Greenland hosts the Thule Air Base (Pituffik Space Base), the northernmost U.S. military installation, which plays a pivotal role in the U.S. missile early warning system.

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Responses from Denmark and Greenland

Denmark has consistently rebuffed Trump's proposals, emphasizing that Greenland is not for sale and expressing displeasure over the remarks.

[00:19] Noel King: "Since his re-election Trump has stepped up the rhetoric again. Yesterday a Danish MP... It is not for sale."

Greenland's leadership has sought to address the situation calmly, reiterating their desire to maintain sovereignty while appreciating their strategic alliance with the U.S.

[00:51] Minister of Greenland: "Many friends in the US... we are not Americans and do not wish to be Americans. We want to be Greenlanders."

In an exclusive interview, Greenland’s Minister of Business, Trade, Natural Resources, and Gender Equality, Nya Ho Nathanielson, provides deeper insights into Greenland’s perspective.

[20:30] Noel King: "We were reminded... how you are responding to something like that?"

[20:42] Minister of Greenland: "We were kind of surprised... trying to work with it."

She emphasizes Greenland’s commitment to maintaining its democratic values and sovereignty, while also being open to American investment in sectors like minerals and trade.

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Implications for U.S. Foreign Policy

The episode explores how Trump’s propositions represent a shift from traditional U.S. foreign policy, which has generally respected established national borders and sovereignty. Trump's approach appears more transactional, reminiscent of 19th-century territorial expansions, contrasting sharply with contemporary diplomatic norms.

[09:09] Nya Nathanielson: "Donald Trump has this sort of different idea of sovereignty and self-determination... national sovereignty is based on popular legitimacy."

This stance raises concerns about setting precedents that could legitimize territorial aggression, potentially emboldening other nations with expansionist agendas, such as Russia and China.

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Public and Diplomatic Reactions

The rhetoric has stirred unease both within Greenland and internationally. Greenland’s Minister acknowledges the public’s nervousness but underscores the importance of not panicking and seeking diplomatic solutions.

[24:47] Minister of Greenland: "This has caused my government to really try to convey to the public, do not panic... We are part of the Western Alliance. We are part of NATO."

She also notes that while there is genuine interest from the U.S., the focus remains on collaboration rather than territorial acquisition.

[23:57] Minister of Greenland: "We would welcome American investment... we do want to work with the states in a business sense."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes by highlighting the delicate balance Greenland must maintain between leveraging its strategic assets and preserving its sovereignty. As global dynamics evolve, Greenland continues to navigate its role on the international stage, ensuring that its interests and autonomy remain paramount amid external pressures.

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Notable Quotes

• Noel King ([00:37]): "Regardless of what we think of Mr. Trump, it is not possible to use such language."

• Minister of Greenland ([19:59]): "Greenland is modern democracy... our culture is very vibrant and rich."

• Nya Nathanielson ([14:42]): "Greenland tries to keep calm and carry on."

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This summary captures the essence of the "It’s Not Easy Being Greenland" episode of Today, Explained, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners and those interested in the unfolding geopolitical narrative surrounding Greenland's strategic significance.

Transcript

[Noel King]

Greenland is a self governing territory and part of the Kingdom of Denmark. Donald Trump is the President of America and since 2019 he's been expressing romantic interest in Greenland.

[Josh Keating]

Strategically for the United States it would be nice and we're a big ally of Denmark and we help Denmark.

[Noel King]

Since his re election Trump has stepped up the rhetoric again. Yesterday a Danish MP it's an integrated part of our country. It is not for sale. Maybe put it in words you might understand. Mr. Trump off. He then got yelled at.

[Nya Nathanielson]

Regardless of what we think of Mr. Trump, it is not possible to use such language.

[Noel King]

But what does Greenland think about all of this? Today? Unexplained Greenland speaks We have a great.

[Minister of Greenland]

Many friends in the US So we are an American ally, but we are not Americans and do not wish to be Americans. We want to be Greenlanders.

[Megan Rapinoe]

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[Sue Bird]

Hi, Megan Rapinoe here. This week on A Touch More, sue and I go over the first weekend of unrivaled Caitlin Clark sitting next to Taylor Swift at a playoff game and what's really behind the legislation that aims to bar transgender girls from school sports. Plus, we'll hear some responses to last week's Baker of the Week and Sue's gonna share her ice cream recipe. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTub.

[Noel King]

This is today Explained. I'm Noel King with Josh Keating. Josh writes about foreign policy and national security for Vox. And Josh reminds us that President Trump has been talking about buying Greenland for quite some time now.

[Nya Nathanielson]

So this is something that goes back to the end of the first Trump administration. This was an idea I started talking about in 2019, and it seems sort of even more random, if that's possible the first time around.

[Josh Keating]

This is something that's been discussed for many years. Harry Truman had the idea of Greenland. I had the idea. Other people have had the idea. It goes back into the early 1900s. But Harry Truman.

[Nya Nathanielson]

And this is an idea that was just sort of rejected out of hand by the government of Denmark. And, you know, the Prime Minister said, you know, she hoped that he was joking. He probably wasn't because he canceled a visit to Denmark and a sort of fit a peak about it.

[Josh Keating]

Now, Denmark, I looked forward to going, but I thought that the, the Prime Minister's statement that it was absurd, that it was an absurd idea, it was nasty. I thought it was an inappropriate statement.

[Nya Nathanielson]

But, you know, it is something that he's now revived.

[Josh Keating]

Finland.

[Minister of Greenland]

Greenland. Greenland.

[Nya Nathanielson]

Oh, Greenland.

[Josh Keating]

Greenland is a wonderful place. We need it for international security.

[Nya Nathanielson]

This first came up the second time around when he announced his pick for ambassador to Denmark, which is Ken Howery, who's the co founder of PayPal. And basically in that announcement, Trump described Greenland as an absolute necessity for the.

[Josh Keating]

US we need Greenland very badly. You look at the Russian ships, the China ships, they're all over the place.

[Nya Nathanielson]

And since then, it's just sort of doubled down on it. I mean, I think it's sort of a pattern with Trump when he gets sort of these ideas in his head and he sort of floats them and then they get a strong reaction, then he sort of doubles down on it. And things really got a lot more serious at a press conference at Mar? A Lago, where a porter asked him if he would rule out using military force to take Greenland. What is the strategy?

[Josh Keating]

I can't assure you. You're talking about Panama and Greenland. No, I can't assure you on either of those two. But I can say this. We need them for economic security.

[Nya Nathanielson]

That's another level when you're effectively threatening to use military force against a US ally, a member of NATO.

[Noel King]

Has he explained why it's an absolute necessity for our security?

[Nya Nathanielson]

Well, there's a couple of things going on here. I mean, there has been an increased emphasis in US national security on the Arctic. As Arctic sea ice melts, there are all these shipping lanes that are newly accessible, allowing more shipping traffic through the Arctic Circle. A lot of natural resources are more accessible than they used to be. Russia has been building military bases in the Arctic for quite a while. China is increasingly, you know, though it's not an Arctic country, it describes itself somewhat implausibly as a near Arctic state. And they've been building up their commercial interests in the Arctic as well. So there is an increased focus on this. The US Is already an Arctic nation because of Alaska. But evidently Trump believes we need even more Arctic coastline. And then, you know, beyond the sort of national security piece, I think there's an economic factor in Here as well. Greenland has significant amount of deposits of metals like lithium, which is important for building batteries needed for the green transition, and also rare earth elements, which are also important for green technology. But right now, the global supply is almost entirely controlled by China. And so I think there's this idea that, you know, if we could control Greenland, we would have access to these minerals, which are now going to be more accessible because the ice that covers about 80% of Greenland's landmass is melting. And that'll help us reduce dependence on China and Chinese supply chains for these critical minerals.

[Noel King]

We've covered how China has most of the rare earth minerals. This could prove to be a real problem for the United States. So, all right, Greenland has them, has a lot, maybe even. Why does the United States need to control Greenland to get the rare earth minerals? Like, is there an argument that the United States could just enter into an agreement with Greenland to buy them?

[Nya Nathanielson]

Yes. I mean, the thing about this is, in talking about this idea, I don't want to dismiss the idea that Greenland is strategically important or that we shouldn't be paying attention to Greenland. There are a lot of global issues that we should care about that Greenland is very much a part of. That doesn't mean it has to be part of the United States already. There are already American companies investing in Greenland's minerals.

[Noel King]

A band of billionaires, from Jeff Bezos to Michael Bloomberg and Bill Gates, is all betting that below the surface of the hills and valleys on Greenland's Disco island and Nusuaq Peninsula, there's enough nickel, cobalt, and copper to power hundreds of millions of electric vehicles.

[Minister of Greenland]

They are essential for several disruptive innovations.

[Noel King]

Including global energy transformation, and also vital.

[Minister of Greenland]

For some armaments industries and continental.

[Nya Nathanielson]

And if you talk about the strategic importance, the US Already has a military base in the country. Pitufik Space Base, which is formally known as Thule Air Base, is the northernmost US Military base in the world. And it's also an important part of the U.S. missile early warning system. So if Russia were launching ICBMs at the U.S. god forbid, it might be thanks to this base in Greenland that we got at least a few minutes of warning about it. And so, you know, this shows there are already U.S. interests there. Denmark is a close U.S. ally. I mean, a few years ago, a Chinese company wanted to buy a former naval base in Greenland, and Denmark blocked it in part because they want to maintain good relationships with the U.S. so there's, I would say, an advantage to having these territories that we're not responsible for governing but that are under the control of a close US Ally. And there's not really a good reason that I see why it has to actually be part of U.S. territory.

[Noel King]

In his inaugural address, we heard Donald Trump talk provocatively about the Panama Canal also.

[Josh Keating]

And above all, China is operating the Panama Canal. And we didn't give it to China, we gave it to Panama and we're taking it back.

[Noel King]

Are these of a piece and what are they telling us? What are they indicating to us about Donald Trump's foreign policy over the next four years, if anything?

[Nya Nathanielson]

Well, I think Donald Trump has this sort of different idea of sovereignty and self determination and immovability of borders than, you know, maybe the last century of U.S. presidents. I think there's been a real bias among successive US governments dating back to World War I, maybe that, you know, current borders should be preserved as they are. I mean, and in that period, most of the time, borders have changed. It's been a matter of, you know, former colonies becoming independent countries don't just trade territory back and forth like they used to. And they used to do it quite a bit. I mean, more than half of the US Territory was actually paid for. I mean, if you look at the Louisiana Purchase or the Alaska Purchase or sort of treaty that ended the U.S. mexican War, so, you know, there's sort of 19th century precedent for this. But in the 20th century, it's generally been that, you know, the U.S. tries to preserve existing borders as they are. Donald Trump has a different idea of this. During his first term, we saw him recognize Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights.

[Josh Keating]

The State of Israel took control of the Golan Heights in 1967 to safeguard its security from external threats, something at.

[Nya Nathanielson]

The time almost no other country was doing. He recognized the Moroccan claims over Western Sahara. This is also something rejected by most of the international community. So, you know, I think he's somebody who likes sees borders and sort of national sovereignty in a much more transactional way. And, you know, another concern a lot of people have brought up in the past few weeks is does this sort of legitimate Russia's territorial claims, that if Russia claims that Ukraine is within its legitimate sphere of interests, or China says the same thing about Taiwan. Does threatening to use military force to back up these claims, does that just sort of give those countries a pass?

[Noel King]

Hmm. We also heard Donald Trump talk about.

[Josh Keating]

Changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.

[Noel King]

And it brings up an interesting point, right? So Senator Elizabeth Warren comes out and she says, this is nonsense. This gentleman is trying to Distract us from, for example, his controversial cabinet picks. Why is Donald Trump doing this? And I think the answer is, let's have a big distraction and several more questions so we don't spend more time.

[Minister of Greenland]

On Pete Hegseth, the nominee to be.

[Noel King]

The head of the Department of Defense. Is there something to the idea that, as Trump is wont to do, he is just spouting nonsense.

[Nya Nathanielson]

He often sort of floats these ideas and gauges the reaction to them. He seems to be serious about it. I don't know if he started off as serious about it, but he seems to be now. So I'm not really treating it as a joke. You know, it's sort of funny. It's this sort of like a monkey's paw situation where like, for years we've been hearing experts in Washington say the U.S. should pay more attention to the Western Hemisphere, devote more resources to its backyard, rather than, you know, getting embroiled in these conflicts overseas. And Trump seems to be doing that. He seems to have a pretty strong interest from Panama to Greenland to even Canada. So probably not what a lot of those experts had in mind. But I think that Russia's invasion of Ukraine was a real kind of shock to the international system, if just because borders don't change by force very often anymore. I mean, that's one thing you can say had gone by the wayside. I mean, not that there haven't been wars over the last 20, 30 years, but countries actually trying to conquer their neighbors, something much more rare, doing it successfully, even rarer. And so, you know, when. When Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, John Kerry, who was the Secretary of State at the time, you know, accused them of acting in a 19th century fashion. And so I think that now, you know, Some of those 19th century ideas seem to be coming back in a bit. And I think, I still think it's a very long shot that this actually happens, if only because Greenland is not really Denmark's property to give away. If we want to take over Greenland, the people we should be negotiating with, it's not Denmark. It's the people of Greenland. And, you know, I suppose the US has bought territory in the past. Ironically, the last significant time the US Bought territory was from Denmark. We bought what was then the Danish West Indies, which is now the U.S. virgin Islands. But things are different today. We live in a world not of territorial empires. We live in a world where national sovereignty is based on popular legitimacy, and the people who live in a place should have some control over who governs them. If Donald Trump is really serious about this and wants to put a package together that the people of Greenland can actually decide on, then I don't really see why he couldn't do that. But you know, from the way he's talking about it, it's less like that. And he sort of discusses it like a real estate deal. He said things like if I'm developing a property and somebody el controls a corner on their property, I want to even it out. So I don't think he's really been thinking through the sort of full implications that this isn't just buying a piece of land, that there are people who live here if some say and who governs them.

[Noel King]

Josh Keating, you can read [e-mail] coming up, Greenland tries to keep calm and carry on.

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[Noel King]

And you friendless, brainless, helpless, hopeless today explained. Do you want me to send you back to where you were unemployed in Greenland?

[Minister of Greenland]

My name is Nya Ho Nathanielson. I'm a minister for, amongst other things, natural resources and trade in Greenland tax. So that's my job. I also have gender equality and justice under my portfolio.

[Noel King]

Wow, so you're doing a lot. I am imagining that many of our listeners will not have ever been to Greenland. Can you tell me a bit about what it's like?

[Minister of Greenland]

Well, I think many people who come here are surprised of two things. One thing is of course the beauty of the nature. Everything is vast and huge, the mountains, the fjords and all that. But another thing I think that struck a lot of people is it's quite modern really. I think oftentimes you think of Greenland as something maybe where few people live and there's not a lot of activity. But our cities look like many others. It would be recognizable for many people.

[Noel King]

And what kind of people are Greenlanders?

[Minister of Greenland]

Well, we are Inuit. We are indigenous People. So we consist of, I think, 90% of the population. So most people here are Greenlanders with Inuit roots. We do have a lot of people from the Nordic countries and from Asia as well. But primarily the population is made up by Inuit.

[Noel King]

Okay, so we have a beautiful country with very modern cities. If someone were planning a visit and wanted to know what was really important, what should they know?

[Minister of Greenland]

Well, they should know that Greenland is modern democracy, that we have our own government, our own parliament, we have a mineral sector, we have tourism, we have fishing industry. So these are our primary revenues of income. And also, you should know that the Greenlandic culture is very vibrant and rich, even though we're only 55,000 people. So there's a lot of music, a lot of plays, a lot of cultural activity, which is quite impressive for such a small population.

[Noel King]

We were reminded in the first half of our show that Donald Trump has actually been talking about Greenland in provocative ways since 2019. Can I ask what you thought when you first heard him single your country out?

[Minister of Greenland]

Well, in the beginning, I think we were kind of surprised about the offer to buy Greenland and has, of course, been trying to figure out what is that about? What is the story behind that, and.

[Noel King]

What do you understand is the story behind that?

[Minister of Greenland]

We understand that it is a measure of national security for the Americans. And to some extent, we understand very much that Greenland is part of the interest sphere of the US when it comes to national security. That is why we have a military base in Greenland. And we do understand that this is important for the monitoring of the Arctic as well. So we do agree with the military presence in Greenland. We do agree with the ideas of expanding the monitoring of the Arctic. So to some extent, we agree to what is being said, but that does not follow that we want to be Americans. It just follows that we understand that Greenland has an importance for the US in terms of national security.

[Noel King]

You are a government minister, and I understand that diplomacy is something that is very important here. But I sort of put the shoe on the other foot. And I think as an American, if another country was talking about buying the United States, I personally would be a bit offended, to be perfectly honest with you.

[Minister of Greenland]

Yes, but we are offended. And I think. But what you also need to understand, as Inuits, we take things calmly. I mean, it doesn't help the situation by panicking. So we are not panicking, but we are trying to understand what is this about and trying to work with it. The US Is a very big country compared to Greenland. We only very few thousand people. So of Course, when the US Says something, we need to take it seriously. We understand that sometimes politicians talk big game and has to maybe deliver a message that is maybe more meant for an audience within the country. So I'm just saying, well, we are in the receiving end and we do not like the rhetoric. We don't appreciate it, but we want to work with the message being sent. We want to figure out how can we talk about this in a sensible manner?

[Nya Nathanielson]

Sure.

[Noel King]

And being important in a strategic sense, in an economic sense, is never really a bad thing. Often it's a very, very good thing for a country which other countries have, well, depending, fair enough, which other countries have expressed interest in acquiring Greenland.

[Minister of Greenland]

I think no other country has decided interested in acquiring Greenland, but we do feel that there's more emphasis on the Greenlandic minerals. For instance, these past couple of years on a very sad backdrop because due to the climate crisis and the war in Ukraine and the pandemic that showed probably to some extent faulty supply chains, well, there's been a focus on where can we find minerals and mine them in a country that is responsible in terms of environment and governance. And Greenland is a good fit in that. So we have been seeing a spur of interest that's not the same as that has really yet shown itself in a lot of investments from outside. We are still lacking investments into the mineral sector, for instance.

[Noel King]

So perhaps the message to President Trump is we would actually welcome American investment.

[Minister of Greenland]

We would welcome American investment. We actually made a deal with the former Trump administration in 2019 where we together explored some of our potentials and had some projects together. And we have been trying for some time to get the Biden administration to prolong or expand that agreement. So we are interested in doing business with the states. Of course, that doesn't mean we want to be Americans, but we do want to work with the states in a business sense.

[Noel King]

Donald Trump has said a handful of provocative things about Greenland, but perhaps one of the most provocative, at least from where I sit in the United States, is that he wouldn't rule out military force in trying to acquire Greenland. First, I guess, does that kind of talk make you nervous? And second, how is the nation responding to something like that?

[Minister of Greenland]

Well, of course, this makes people nervous. We have kids as well that listen to the media and they say, what is going on? Is the state going to come and occupy us? It's a very unfortunate rhetoric. So this has caused my government to really try to convey to the public, do not panic. We're trying to work through this and figure out what is it about? Because, no, I don't think that our ally would occupy us. Of course not. I don't expect that from an ally. We are part of the Western Alliance. We are part of NATO. We are a friend of the U.S. we are a democracy, and so is the U.S. so we do expect that that won't be the case. What we're trying to do is look beyond that sort of rhetoric and see how can we work together after such a statement.

[Noel King]

I do hear you saying something that I think is very important, which is Donald Trump does talk a lot. And we learned in his first four years in office that sometimes he's very serious and sometimes he's actually just talking. He is talking at times to distract from other things that he's doing. Sometimes he's just sort of speaking extemporaneously and thinking slip out. I think it's fair and factual to say both of those things. Is there any sense that you have in your capacity that perhaps this is not all that serious? It's just talk.

[Minister of Greenland]

I think there has been a genuine interest in Greenland for some time in America. So I think it's a fair assessment that he should be taking serious about his desire to expand cooperation with Greenland in some form or other. I think that is to be taken quite seriously. And it's not only one person as I understand it, as I see it. It's a couple of people, a group of people who has an interest in Greenland. And you can see that also there has been a bill proposed about acquiring Greenland.

[Sue Bird]

It's important for the United States to assert itself and say, look, this is our doorstep. This is our, our area of operation, and we are, quite frankly, the dominant predator cop, if you will. But it's important that we fight back against China and send them back their own hemisphere.

[Minister of Greenland]

So I think this is not just one person saying something. Of course, you always need to take your president serious when he says something, and we do, too. That's the name of the game. But I get a sense that there is something more than that than just talk.

[Noel King]

Naya Nathanielson. She's Greenland's Minister of Business, Trade, Mineral Resources, justice and Gender Equality. Avishai Artsy produced today's show. Amina Elsadi edited. Andrea Christensdotter and Patrick Boyd are our engineers, and Laura Bullard is our Minister of Research. I'm Noel King. It's Today explained.