Kanye's comeback

Summary

Podcast Summary: Today, Explained

Episode: Kanye's Comeback

Vox Media Podcast Network | April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the resurgence—and continued controversy—of Kanye West (now legally known as Ye), tracing the arc from his provocative early years to his sharp decline due to increasingly hateful rhetoric and his recent high-profile apology campaign. Through conversations with Vanity Fair’s Chris Murphy and Vulture’s Craig Jenkins, the show examines Ye’s attempted comeback, the sincerity behind his apologies, the reaction of global audiences, and the complex question: Should Kanye be forgiven, shunned, or banned?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Setup: Festivals, Controversy, and an International Ban

[00:01–01:43]

• Wireless Festival UK tried the “same headline act all 3 nights” format, booking Ye as the headliner. Backlash erupted across media, sponsors, and even UK’s Prime Minister, leading to Ye being banned from entering the UK and the festival’s cancellation.
• Host sets up Ye as “the most controversial musician on the planet,” recently making attempts at public apologies for his divisive actions.

Early Provocation to Outright Hate

[01:43–06:40] | Chris Murphy (Vanity Fair)

• Ye’s early provocations were seen as speaking truth to power, e.g., his “George Bush doesn’t care about black people” statement ([01:43]).
• Infamous 2009 VMA/Taylor Swift interruption ([02:07]).
• Shift to destructive controversy began late 2010s, engaging in anti-semitic and anti-Black rhetoric:
  • “Slavery for 400 years—that sounds like a choice.” ([02:32])
  • Public controversies intensified as his music lost relevance and new hip-hop figures (Drake, Kendrick) emerged ([02:46–03:08]).
  • Association with right-wing figures, public meltdowns, and personal turmoil (divorce from Kim Kardashian) ([03:22–03:53]).
• Ye’s spiral into “really vile and hateful” territory, including:
  • 2022 Paris Fashion Week “White Lives Matter” shirt ([04:10–04:39]).
  • Multiple anti-semitic social media posts, including swastika imagery and outright death threats ([04:45–05:06]).
  • Interviews praising Hitler and selling “Heil Hitler” swastika merch, banned in Australia, but embraced by manosphere and far-right figures ([05:19–06:40]).

“He releases a song called Heil Hitler and then also sells swastika T shirts in February of 2025 … but it still gets a cult following in the manosphere.” — Chris Murphy [05:50]

The Apology and Questions of Sincerity

[06:40–11:30]

• In January 2026, Kanye takes out a full-page apology ad in the Wall Street Journal, citing his 2002 car accident, late bipolar diagnosis, and mental health struggles as explanatory context ([07:06–08:27]).
• Major themes and quotes from his apology:

  “I regret and am deeply mortified by my actions. I’m not a Nazi or an anti Semite. I love Jewish people ... I’m sorry I let you down.” — Kanye West (statement) [07:06] “The scariest thing about this disorder is how persuasive it is when it tells you you don’t need help ... I said and did things I deeply regret.” — Kanye West (statement) [08:06]

• Chris Murphy notes:
  • Apologies coincide with album releases or major business pivots, casting doubt on sincerity ([09:15]).
  • Meetings with faith leaders and public statements but little visible accountability beyond words.

“It’s a little bit hard to take his apology seriously because one, so far they’ve really just been words … they tend to be around some sort of album release or project where he has the opportunity to profit.” — Chris Murphy [09:15]

Does He Still Profit?

[10:26–11:30]

• Despite diminished critical reception (e.g., Pitchfork 3.4/10 for Bully), Kanye fills stadiums: two sold-out SoFi Stadium shows net $33 million.
• There’s a dichotomy:
  • Culturally declining, financially resilient, especially with support from right-wing/manosphere groups.

Global Popularity vs. Revulsion

[11:06–12:37]

• Even as festival bans and institutional rejection accumulate (e.g., UK, Australia), Ye continues to headline international gigs.
• His fanbase skews toward contrarian, anti-establishment circles (manosphere, far-right influencers).
• The episode frames this as “the curious case of Kanye West… at once the most reviled figure in music and still wildly popular.”

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Forgiveness, Accountability, and the Authenticity Question

[15:49–25:45] | Craig Jenkins (Vulture)

Should We Forgive Kanye?

• Jenkins argues that genuine steps toward healing the harm could make Ye a potent voice for countering far-right radicalization ([15:57]).
• But there’s skepticism: Apologies lack specificity, feeling more like PR than moral reckoning.

“We haven’t heard enough of that chat happening to really be gung ho about the guy back in the public sphere.” — Craig Jenkins [15:57]

The New Album: Reflection or Evasion?

• Bully reflects a turning-point moment but avoids specifics; Kanye references being lost and then found but glosses over details of the harm caused.

  “It sounds like a storm is clearing, but he doesn’t really want to get into it … Man, things were really weird back there last year and now they no longer are and I’m so glad.” — Craig Jenkins [16:42] “Now you wonder what, a fen. But I’m back to life like an EpiPen.” — Kanye West (quoted lyric) [17:19]

• For Jenkins, effectiveness of apology and restoration depends on real reckoning with the past, not deflection.

Commercial Motivation vs. Moral Growth

• The timing around festivals and sponsorship—Kanye wants back into the major festival money, prompting skepticism about intent.

  “Everything is wrapped up in everything with him. So it's like the fact that he gets something out of being sorry challenges for people whether or not he actually is.” — Craig Jenkins [18:36]

Nostalgia as Safety Net

• Live shows are dominated by classic hits, with new material underplayed.

  “He has discovered the circumstance that makes him want to embrace the old Kanye… that’s the stuff that people feel really good about and uncomplicated about.” — Craig Jenkins [19:43]

• Kanye, once on the vanguard of musical innovation, risks becoming a “nostalgia artist.”

On Being an Agent of Normalization and the Need for Real Reckoning

• Jenkins calls out Kanye’s pivotal role in mainstreaming far-right ideas and argues meaningful atonement means confronting this head-on.

  “He was one of the agents, you know, along which that happened ... I would like to hear the guy talk about the fact that people saw utility in him as this like theater of the absurd ... But, yeah, like, get into that stuff.” — Craig Jenkins [21:44]

Should He Be Banned?

• Jenkins rejects outright bans (“the wording of the UK Ban, I don’t like”), warning of free speech implications.
• Suggests Ye could be a valuable “anti- or post-extremist voice” if he genuinely engaged in repair, but so far such efforts are lacking ([24:24–25:45]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He was always provocative ... some would say he was provocative for good at the beginning.” — Chris Murphy [01:43]
• “Slavery for 400 years—that sounds like a choice.” — Kanye West (quoted) [02:32]
• “The answer to why I wrote White Lives Matter on a shirt is because they do.” — Kanye West (quoted) [04:26]
• “Pitchfork gave it a 3.4 poopy D scoop, which is really low even for Pitchfork.” — Chris Murphy [10:28]
• “I miss the old Kanye.” — Kanye West (quoted) [19:42]
• “I don’t miss him, and I don’t even need the music or what he used to represent. There’s so many places to get that from.” — Craig Jenkins [23:27]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [00:01] — Festival backlash, Wireless cancellation
• [01:43] — Chris Murphy contextualizes Ye’s early controversies
• [04:10] — Rise of public hate speech, “White Lives Matter” incident
• [05:19] — Swastika, anti-Semitism, manosphere fandom
• [06:51] — The apology campaign and bipolar diagnosis
• [10:26] — Charting commercial success despite controversy
• [11:30] — The evolving fanbase and manosphere influence
• [15:57] — Craig Jenkins weighs forgiveness and authenticity
• [16:42] — Bully album critique: vagueness vs. substance
• [19:42] — Nostalgia and the old vs. new Kanye
• [21:44] — Kanye’s role in mainstreaming extremism
• [24:24] — The ethics of bans and hope for meaningful change

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Conclusion

The episode presents an unflinching look at Kanye West’s tumultuous decade—from radical provocateur to persona non grata, and now as a would-be comeback story. Through critical analysis and candid guest commentary, Today, Explained lays bare the complexities of redemption, accountability, artistic legacy, and the influence of spectacle on both music and cultural politics. It leaves listeners with crucial questions about who gets forgiven—and why.

Transcript

[Host]

Coachella weekend is around the corner in Indio, California. But I want to talk to you about Wireless. In the uk, it's another three day music festival, but lately they've been doing the same headliner on each of the three nights. Last year, it was Drake on night one, Drake on night two, and Drake on night three.

[Chris Murphy]

Embarrassing.

[Host]

This year, Wireless decided to take the same approach. But instead of Drake headlining all three nights, they booked the most controversial musician on the planet, a guy who used to go by the the name of Kanye West. And everyone got mad, from sponsors like Pepsi and PayPal to eventually the UK's own Prime Minister, Keir Starmer. On Tuesday, Ye was banned from entering the UK and Wireless had to pull the plug on the entire festival. But the rapper has recently come out and apologized for all the terrible things he's said and done. So yay or nay on Today explained.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

And I heard him say nothing's ever promised.

[Host]

Tomorrow today explained.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

Yay.

[Host]

The rapper formerly known as Kanye west has for a very long time believed he's God's gift to earth. And that might even be an understatement.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

I am a God, so hurry up with my damn massage in a French ass restaurant. Hurry up with my damn croissant.

[Host]

He either found him insufferable or felt like you could excuse his outsized personality because his music made you feel like you could fly. But then Ye spent years doing everything in his power to alienate his audience. We asked Chris Murphy from Vanity Fair to come help us understand that era in light of the rapper's recent efforts to apologize for all of it.

[Chris Murphy]

He was always provocative, and some would say that he was provocative for good at the beginning. You know, he said, George Bush doesn't care about black people in regards to Hurricane Katrina.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

I hate the way they portray us in the media. If you see a black family, it says they're looting. See a white family, it says they're looking for food.

[Chris Murphy]

He stormed the stage when Taylor Swift won a VMA over Beyonce and said,

[Kanye West (quoted)]

yo, Taylor, I'm really happy for you. I'mma let you finish. But Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time.

[Chris Murphy]

You know, he always was provocative. But when things started to turn and get really scary and really bad was sort of in like the late teens, early 2000s is when he started to engage in legitimately anti Semitic rhetoric and whatnot. And that's also around the time that he starts saying, when you hear about

[Kanye West (quoted)]

slavery for 400 years, for 400 years, that sounds like a choice.

[Host]

And this is all while his music is inarguably decreasing in quality and relevance.

[Chris Murphy]

Yes, quality and relevance. And I think that's really important. He was kind of the defining artist of the teens. You would say he was sort of the defining millennial artist. And as he starts to lose his grip and other people start rising. You've got Drake.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

You used to call me on my cell phone.

[Chris Murphy]

You've got Kendrick.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

My left stroke just went viral.

[Chris Murphy]

You've got other artists who are starting to enter the conversation and hold the attention of other people. He starts to kind of act out in really alarming ways in terms of, you know, provocative statements, boundary pushing.

[News Reporter]

Trump and Kanye at Trump Tower. Kanye west caught in an on camera confrontation with a photographer at lax.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

As you probably could have guessed by this moment, I have decided in 2020 to run for president.

[Chris Murphy]

Also, his marriage is sort of falling apart with Kim Kardashian.

[Kim Kardashian (quoted)]

He's like, crying on the phone to me, and he just, like, wouldn't say, what's wrong? And I'm like, tell me what's wrong.

[Chris Murphy]

I just, like, don't know what to do.

[Kim Kardashian (quoted)]

When I divorced him, you have to know it came down to just one thing, his personality.

[Chris Murphy]

And then at some point crosses the line into actual outright anti Semitism.

[Host]

I think it's important to this conversation that we just establish how vile and hateful the things he was saying and doing were. So could you give us an idea?

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah, there's a lot. So I apologize if I forget anything, but there are a lot of things that he said and did that were really vile and unacceptable. And I think it sort of really began in 2022. He's at Paris Fash and he wears a White Lives Matter shirt.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

The photos have gone viral, with Kanye adding fuel to the fire, claiming the Black Lives Matter movement is a scam. The answer to why I wrote White Lives Matter on a shirt is because they do.

[Chris Murphy]

And then it gets outright anti Semitic. Months later, when he posts swastikas on social media.

[News Reporter]

Ye is now suspended from Twitter.

[Chris Murphy]

West's account suspended Thursday night after he posted a now deleted image of a

[Host]

swastika inside a Star of David.

[Chris Murphy]

He publishes texts with certain people that he says the media is controlled by Jewish people and spreading anti Semitic conspiracy theories. He also tweets that he would go Death Con three on Jewish people.

[Sponsor Voice]

Now, for the second time this year, rapper Ye, formerly Kanye west, has been suspended from Twitter.

[News Reporter]

CEO Elon Musk announced the suspension, writing, quote, I tried my best. Despite that, he again violated our rule against incitement. Of violence.

[Chris Murphy]

He then gives an interview wearing a Klan hood, a KKK hood.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

You know, funny thing is I really wanted to wear it y today, but I thought they would like put me in a hospital, put my outfit.

[Chris Murphy]

So it's not only anti Semitic, there's also anti blackness rolled into there as well. He does an interview with Alex Jones podcast. You know, the infamous Sandy Hook conspiracy theorist. He praises Hitler, says Hitler's a good marketer.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

Every human being has something of value that they brought to the table, especially Hitler.

[Chris Murphy]

He does all of these things. I think sort of the pinnacle of his public anti Semitism is he releases a a song called Heil Hitler and then also sells swastika T shirts in February of 2025. And that song, it gets him banned from Australia. It's not played on radio airwaves and whatnot, but it still gets a cult following in the manosphere. You've got Nick Fuentes, clavicular and Andrew Tate, these big figures in the manosphere. And at least in Nick Fuentes case, an avowed anti Semite playing the song in Miami beach and listening, hitting the clubs. So it's sort of a quick rundown of some of the stuff that he did. But yeah, it got really, really bad and really dark.

[Host]

I guess it gets to a point where the only surprising thing left Kanye west can do is a total 180. And he does that this year.

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah. Yes he does or he attempts to. He releases In January of 2026, he releases a full page ad in the Wall Street Journal apologizing for his past remarks. His anti Semitism specifically.

[Kanye West (apology statement)]

I regret and am deeply mortified by my actions. I'm not a Nazi or an anti Semite. I love Jewish people and anti blackness. The black community is unquestionably the foundation of who I am. And I'm sorry I let you down. I love us.

[Chris Murphy]

And saying that it stems from a car accident that he had in 2002, which him being diagnosed as having bipolar disorder.

[Kanye West (apology statement)]

25 years ago I was in a car accident that broke my jaw and caused injury to the right frontal lobe of my brain. It wasn't properly diagnosed until 2023. The medical oversight caused serious damage to my mental health and led to my bipolar type 1 diagnosis.

[Chris Murphy]

It is interesting that, you know, he went, let's say 20 years of his career, the car crash was in 2002 and his first sort of public really terrible remarks were in 20 to 20 years without that happening. I don't really understand that necessarily.

[Kanye West (apology statement)]

The scariest thing about this disorder is how persuasive it is when it tells you you don't need help. It makes you blind but convinced. You have insight. You feel powerful, certain, unstoppable. I lost touch with reality. Things got worse the longer I ignored the problem. I said and did things I deeply regret.

[Chris Murphy]

And then he gives an exclusive interview to Vanity Fair, to reporter Anna Peel, explaining why he's apologizing and the weight of his remorse for his actions. All, it should be said, leading up to the release of his latest album, Bully. This was in the weeks leading up to new music. And this was not his first apology. He had apologized, you know, about a year prior as well, for his remarks, but this was sort of his biggest, grandest attempt at atoning for his sins.

[Host]

You mentioned that. Of course, these apologies come on the heels of an album release. Is this just about money for Kanye? Do we know? Has all of his anti Semitism and anti blackness and divorce cost him more than he can afford?

[Chris Murphy]

I mean, that's a complicated question because in his conversation with Anna Peel, he does note that he's still one of the most streamed artists globally. So there are still people who are listening to him this whole entire time amidst the, if you want to say, cancellation of Kanye. But as you very shrewdly noted, when he does apologize or when he does, you know, get the wherewithal to try and apologize for his anti Semitic and anti black remarks, they tend to presage an album release or an opportunity where he wants his music and his work to be well received by the public. So it's a little bit hard to take his apology seriously because one, so far they've really just been words. He's met with some rally rabbis who have said that he's doing the work, but it's sort of hard to see exactly what accountability he's taken in regards to proving that his anti Semitism and his anti blackness were outbursts that were not who he really is. And they tend to be around some sort of album release or project where he has the opportunity to profit.

[Host]

Does it work? Does he profit?

[Chris Murphy]

Bully, I will say, didn't seem to really make waves, at least in the music space. Pitchfork gave it a 3.4 poopy D scoop, which is really low even for Pitchfork. But in regards to profitability, he had two concerts at SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles and he made $33 million in just two concerts selling out the stadium. So in some cases, yeah, it's a tricky thing where while he is definitely losing relevance in the public domain and the public Space. In some regards, he's still profiting and he's still making money off of his music and off of his brand.

[Host]

Chris, help us understand this moment for Kanye West. He's selling out shows in Los Angeles and breaking records. He's getting banned in the UK and whole festival is being canceled as a result. But at the same time, he's still got shows scheduled all around the world. India, Turkey, Spain, the Netherlands. He's at once like the most reviled figure in music and still wildly popular.

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah, I mean, that's the curious case of Kanye west right now and the conundrum that he has absolutely put himself in. I mean, he absolutely still has global appeal with a certain market. He just headlined one of the highest grossing nights in music history. So people are listening. But if you look at the people who are listening, you'll find that a lot of them run in the same circles as the Andrew Tates and the Nick Fuentes and the Claviculars and are tied to the manosphere. And now that Kanye has positioned himself as this anti establishment, kind of fuck you to culture guy, there's always going to be a market for someone who is anti what everyone else is supposed to be doing or anti what the masses are doing. And he's found a home in this manosphere culture. So I think, yeah, we have to look at what his fan base looks like now to understand why he is so popular still.

[Host]

Chris Murphy writes about culture for Vanity Fair Con we ever forgive Kanye when we're back on Today Explained.

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[Host]

today, explained Craig Jenkins, Vulture Not Vultures Kanye wants us to forgive him right now. Should we?

[Craig Jenkins]

I mean, you know, it's not up to me personally. That's how I feel like. But I think that if he is genuinely making steps toward making things right, then he is a very useful person to have because he's someone who has been this lightning rod for the far right and could lead some of his fans out of there. But. But we haven't heard enough of that chat happening to really like be gung ho about the guy back in the public sphere. Which is why there are all these differing outcomes for where he shows up, places he's leaving too much on the table.

[Host]

Is the album reflective? Is he getting into whatever torturous moment he's in on the album?

[Craig Jenkins]

It is extremely shaped by that and it sounds like a storm is clearing, but he doesn't really want to get into it when I thought I was reviewing the album. I described it as an amazing grace that doesn't want to get too much into the once being lost for excitement about being found. Like, there's not specificity about what his vibes were or even what they are now. Such, you know, so much is there is like, man, things were really weird back there last year and now they no longer are. And I'm so glad. Like, he'd be like, yeah, like church ladies prayed for me. I just want to say thank you, Lord. Or what was the other line?

[Kanye West (quoted)]

Now you wonder what a fen. But I'm back to life like an EpiPen.

[Craig Jenkins]

Back to life like an EpiPen. It's like, yeah, about what friend? It just does not come up because you know, you know what all happened. And he doesn't necessarily want to get into the specificity of it because just to list it out is like reopens the wound for people.

[Host]

Yeah. Cause it's really reprehensible stuff.

[Craig Jenkins]

And for a long time and not that long ago, if he wants the commercial sponsorship aspect of music back and he wants festival headliner thing back, like, you have to address what the last three to. You could argue 10 years were in some form and express that, like, look like I'm not going to do all that stuff again in order to regain the trust of not just like people who are offended, but like the trust that you won't mess up people's money doing it again. Like, which is a big animating factor in this clearly like country to country.

[Host]

And that is what his ultimate goal is here. To get back on the. On the festival stages where the big money is.

[Craig Jenkins]

I mean, he says he wants to win people back through performing his music. And what I hear is I would like to be at the festivals. And this is a problem.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Craig Jenkins]

You know, like, it's just all. Everything is wrapped up in everything with him. So it's like the fact that he gets something out of being sorry challenges for people whether or not he actually is.

[Host]

It's funny, you know, thinking about this being one of the most important musicians of the 20 teens. Late aughts. He was important because you never really knew what he was gonna do. And he was always gonna advance the genre. And now when I see clips of these concerts he played at Sofi Stadium in Los Angeles that I don't seek out, but they. They come to me in the feeds. It's always the clips of like vintage K. College dropout era Kanye. The real tragedy there seems to be like, he's Almost comfortable becoming a nostalgia artist. This guy who consider himself like the most important artist of his generation is ready to just play the hits.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

I miss the old Kanye.

[Craig Jenkins]

He has discovered the circumstance that makes him want to embrace the old Kanye that he renounced 10 years ago, which is that like, actually that's the stuff that people feel really good about and uncomplicated about. And he's been complicating it for them for the last 10 years. 13 years, you might argue 15, 16, you could argue.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

I hate the new Kanye.

[Craig Jenkins]

There's always something that happens that splinters off a bit of the fan base because I remember being heavy in it. People not really getting Dark Twisted Fantasy, not really getting the Yeezus album. And then after Pablo, like I think,

[Host]

I think too much.

[Craig Jenkins]

But you know, there's still a grip of 100,000 million something some odd on the earth who like foot the bill and will still fill up stadiums for that because, you know that music still feels good even if the new album is not done and the vocals are gibberish. Like he's not going to perform that much of it. Like you can only. You're only getting like five songs from that, from the new album, one could reckon. And this is the mindset that we used to have about like bands like metallica in the 90s and stu. When you go see them live, like they're. They're still playing for Whom the Bell

[Kanye West (quoted)]

Tolls, Time Watches On.

[Craig Jenkins]

They're still going back into the catalog and taking you to that place before they turned into something confusing like it's. That springs eternal for Phantom.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, but this is not Metallica, right?

[Craig Jenkins]

It is so different.

[Kanye West (quoted)]

Master. Master.

[Host]

And something we talked about with Chris in the, in the earlier half of the show is that he said so much and did so much to turn so many people off that in this moment it felt like the most surprising thing he could do was an apology, was to do a 180 and say, I take it all back. Especially because this white supremacy and Nazism has become so normalized in our culture.

[Craig Jenkins]

And I would argue that he was one of the agents, you know, along which that happened. And I would like to hear the guy talk about the fact that people saw utility in him as this like theater of the absurd of this as this. Like let's like upstage all of the right wing guys and show how this cool clout king can like, you know, really say what the truth is. And the truth is always whatever they're like, like agenda is. But yeah, like, like get into that stuff. Like, make your old hater squad angry if you really mean that. You turned over a new leaf and they're happy with everything. They're fine with how things are going.

[Guest Commentator]

I think that his comeback actually vindicates a lot of what he did, so it's no shade. I really am happy for him, and I congratulate him on all of his success. But doesn't that tell you about how the whole world works, works that when he offended the Jews, it was impossible for him to do anything.

[Craig Jenkins]

I just don't understand how you could possibly expect, like, the people you've insulted to really bite on, on your redemptive campaign if the people who you were just, like, clicked up with, don't mind that this is happening, are actually chill with the record or excited to see you back in the public. Like, this is a separate thing for me from whether I think he means it. It's like his execution of this initiative to win people back is not trying hard enough. And this is someone who has always defied the logic about him with a real hard try. Like, that brings people together. Like, where's anything about what he stands on now? You know,

[Host]

it sounds like you're pining for that guy to come back.

[Craig Jenkins]

I don't miss him, and I don't. I don't even need the music or what he used to represent. There's so many places to get that from.

[Host]

So you don't need him.

[Craig Jenkins]

You know, I would like for him to turn things around and really talk about what happened to hip hop over the last 10 years that he was bringing around, like, all the creepies. Cause, like, this created a climate where the president can go on rap podcasts and visit streamers and stuff, and I don't hear anything about that. And it really fries me. So, like, yeah, like, I'm just watching how this thing shakes out, intrigued as to whether, like, the tryhard will show up in it.

[Host]

Okay, I started this conversation by asking you, should we forgive Kanye West? And your answer was pretty much not yet. Other countries, though, have found another solution. There's two so far. Australia, the United Kingdom, have decided to ban Kanye West. So let me close by asking you this. Should we ban Kanye West?

[Craig Jenkins]

No, I'm not even. Okay, objectively, the wording of the UK Ban, I don't like. I don't like the idea that you can declare someone as a negative, you know, net negative existing in the country. Like, that's weird. But I also see how you could put that idea in their heads over a period of years and not really do enough to, you know, disabuse everyone of the notion that you might spout out horrors across the world like ye could be a very valuable anti or post extremist voice cleaning up the spaces that he introduced all of the Republican grift and all of the like Nazi transgression into and I don't see it yet. And so like I feel very we'll reassess things when I even see it. We have seen signs that he would like to leave that stuff alone and we have seen him get through a show without, you know, breaking anything and and you just that can't be all that we that this tour proves to us or you're gonna keep running into the wall of well does he mean it or not? Because nobody can really tally whatever the accountability is that he's promised, but we can tally everything else that he's doing.

[Host]

Read Craig Jenkins at Vulture. I certainly do. Patrick Boyd mixed our show today. Gabriel Donatov, fact check. Jolie Myers, Heidi Mwagdi and Dustin De Soto produced. Zach Mack wished he could have produced. I'm Sean Ramasburm. What would TODAY Explained have been about if we didn't do yay today?

[Kanye West (quoted)]

I guess we'll never know.

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