Podcast Summary: "Kash Patel is posting through it"

Podcast: Today, Explained (Vox)
Date: September 18, 2025
Hosts: Sean Rameswaram, Ian Chillag
Guests: Eric Tucker (Associated Press), Mark Caputo (Axios)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the tumultuous week of Kash Patel, the current FBI Director, describing his handling of the investigation into Charlie Kirk’s assassination, his controversial and very public communication style, and the intense scrutiny during his first major Capitol Hill oversight hearings. The episode further examines how both the Trump administration and conservative base perceive Patel, highlighting the political dynamics shaping the FBI under his leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Surreal Scene in Utah and Kash Patel’s New Role

• Patel’s Unusual Goodbye:
  The episode opens with a look at a memorable moment when Patel, of Gujarati-Indian, Hindu background, used Norse mythology ("Valhalla") to eulogize Charlie Kirk.
  • Ian Chillag: “Our Gujarati, Indian, Hindu FBI director referencing Norse mythology's heaven to say goodbye to his arch conservative Christian friend... all while hanging out, you know, close to Mormon headquarters in Utah. Weird.” (00:17)
• Patel in the Spotlight:
  As the investigation unfolded, the FBI’s involvement was immediate due to the nature of the assassination and Kirk’s ties to Trump’s inner circle.
  • Eric Tucker: “We've never had an FBI director who has been so online before and has announced investigative developments on Twitter. And so that was unusual…” (03:44)
  • Notably, Patel announced the suspect was in custody via social media—a claim that turned out to be premature.

2. Missteps and Investigation Details

• Premature Announcements:
  Patel’s post of a captured suspect was factually incorrect, as officials later clarified that two people were detained then released.
  • Eric Tucker: “That became sort of an interesting development as to how did it get posted in the first place that somebody was in custody who, in fact, was not responsible for the shooting?” (04:48)
• Apprehension of the Suspect:
  The key break came not from the FBI, but from the suspect’s own family reporting him to authorities.

3. Patel’s Leadership Style Under Scrutiny

• Excessive Credit Taking:
  Patel repeatedly emphasized decisions were made “at my direction,” an unusual move for an FBI Director.
  • Eric Tucker: “That's not necessarily how you typically hear the top law enforcement officials describe their own actions in an investigation...” (05:23)

4. Political Theater on Capitol Hill

• Senate and House Hearings:
  Patel faced his first public oversight hearings, which were contentious and predictably partisan.
  • Supportive questioning from Republican senators; heated, combative exchanges with Democrats, especially Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell.
  • Mark Caputo: “This is the first occasion for the committee to get back together since the tragic death of Charlie Kirk.” (02:34)
  • Eric Tucker, on the Democrats’ approach: “There was a lot of name calling, some expletives. And so we really saw these, these, these real tense moments.” (09:05)
• The Epstein Files Controversy:
  Democrats accused Patel of covering up information about the Epstein case, implying Trump’s connections were being concealed.
  • Eric Tucker: “The suggestion was that because President Trump's name is known to be in the Epstein files, that perhaps there was an effort by the government to conceal, which Patel had denied.” (11:02)

5. The FBI Under Pressure and Internal Fractures

• Mass Firings and 'Deep State' Rhetoric:
  • Conservatives critical of Patel's performance point to both his highly public persona and a perceived lack of aggressive 'deep state' purging.
  • Ongoing lawsuits from fired FBI agents allege Patel is “bumbling in his job.” (19:23)
  • Mark Caputo: “There are those who believe that the FBI has too many, quote, deep staters, and more firings need to happen... in the MAGA mind, that has been a mistake.” (19:32)

6. How is Patel Viewed by Trumpworld and the Conservative Base?

• Mixed Reactions:
  • Some leading conservatives (e.g., Chris Rufo) criticize Patel as overly performative online.
  • Trump allies, including Rick Grinnell and the late Charlie Kirk, supported his appointment; his relationship with Trump is close.
  • Mark Caputo: “The most prominent voice online who was criticizing Cash Patel's performance was Chris Rufo. And Rufo... really disliked the performative nature of Patel online.” (17:07)
• Trump’s Seal of Approval:
  • Trump appreciates Patel’s “mix it up” style on Capitol Hill and his willingness to counterattack Democrats openly.
  • Mark Caputo: “Donald Trump likes a winner. And in Trump's mind, they got the guy... Patel has made a good argument as to him having a share or owning a share of the responsibility...” (23:52)
  • Public confrontations, particularly with Cory Booker, are actively highlighted by Trump’s team as positives.
  • Mark Caputo: “Donald Trump likes that stuff. He wants people engaged in the fight. He wants them to mix it up. He wants them to go after Democrats, counter punch and hit hard. And Cash Patel does that.” (26:19)

7. The Limits of Change in a Storied Institution

• Enduring Culture at the FBI:
  Despite the Trump team’s desire for quick transformation, the Bureau remains resistant to rapid overhaul.
  • Mark Caputo: “I'm not saying it's not happening, but I know that people in Patel's orbit have bemoaned how difficult it is to change things. One of them told me, as they said, it's like an asylum over here.” (21:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Patel in Utah:
  • Ian Chillag (00:17): “Our Gujarati, Indian, Hindu FBI director referencing Norse mythology's heaven...”
• Patel’s Public Persona:
  • Eric Tucker (03:44): “We've never had an FBI director who has been so online before and has announced investigative developments on Twitter.”
• Taking Personal Credit:
  • Eric Tucker (05:23): “…at my direction, the FBI released the first set of FBI photos…That's not necessarily how you typically hear the top law enforcement officials describe their own actions in an investigation that frankly involved dozens and dozens and dozens of people.”
• Capitol Hill Confrontations:
  • Eric Tucker (09:05): “And I'm going to answer the question. But you don't like the answer because it's no. I want an answer to my question.”
• On Trump and Patel’s Relationship:
  • Mark Caputo (23:52): “Donald Trump likes a winner. And in Trump's mind, they got the guy...”
• On Changing the FBI:
  • Mark Caputo (21:25): “One of them told me, as they said, it's like an asylum over here. So the deep state, I'm putting that in air quotes, is still resisting the Trump attempt to take over.”
• Patel’s “Valhalla” Comment:
  • Eric Tucker (18:22): “To my friend Charlie Kirk. Rest now, brother. We have the watch and I'll see you in Valhalla.”

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–01:00: Opening, Valhalla comment, set up of the week's drama
• 03:33–05:04: Patel's online announcements, premature custody statement, confusion in Utah investigation
• 06:30–08:11: Patel’s unaccustomed public role, leadership in high-profile crisis, preparation for Capitol Hill
• 08:25–11:30: Contentious Senate and House hearings, partisan splits, Epstein case
• 17:07–20:32: Conservative critiques, internal FBI turmoil, deep state narratives
• 22:03–23:40: Patel as a political figure, media appearances, allies in Trumpworld
• 23:52–26:19: Trump’s reaction to Patel’s style and performance, “fighter” qualities prized
• 21:25: Difficulties in changing the FBI’s culture

Conclusion

This episode of Today, Explained offers a frank, multi-faceted look at Kash Patel's stormy, very public tenure as FBI Director—from social-media fueled leadership in the wake of a major political assassination, to the sharp-edged theater of Capitol Hill oversight, and the ongoing struggle to reshape the Bureau to fit the Trump administration’s vision in the face of institutional inertia. The episode underscores Patel's controversial blend of personal branding, partisan combativeness, and the high political stakes that now envelop even the highest levels of federal law enforcement.