Kash Patel is posting through it

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Kash Patel is posting through it"

Podcast: Today, Explained (Vox)
Date: September 18, 2025
Hosts: Sean Rameswaram, Ian Chillag
Guests: Eric Tucker (Associated Press), Mark Caputo (Axios)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the tumultuous week of Kash Patel, the current FBI Director, describing his handling of the investigation into Charlie Kirk’s assassination, his controversial and very public communication style, and the intense scrutiny during his first major Capitol Hill oversight hearings. The episode further examines how both the Trump administration and conservative base perceive Patel, highlighting the political dynamics shaping the FBI under his leadership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Surreal Scene in Utah and Kash Patel’s New Role

• Patel’s Unusual Goodbye:
  The episode opens with a look at a memorable moment when Patel, of Gujarati-Indian, Hindu background, used Norse mythology ("Valhalla") to eulogize Charlie Kirk.
  • Ian Chillag: “Our Gujarati, Indian, Hindu FBI director referencing Norse mythology's heaven to say goodbye to his arch conservative Christian friend... all while hanging out, you know, close to Mormon headquarters in Utah. Weird.” (00:17)
• Patel in the Spotlight:
  As the investigation unfolded, the FBI’s involvement was immediate due to the nature of the assassination and Kirk’s ties to Trump’s inner circle.
  • Eric Tucker: “We've never had an FBI director who has been so online before and has announced investigative developments on Twitter. And so that was unusual…” (03:44)
  • Notably, Patel announced the suspect was in custody via social media—a claim that turned out to be premature.

2. Missteps and Investigation Details

• Premature Announcements:
  Patel’s post of a captured suspect was factually incorrect, as officials later clarified that two people were detained then released.
  • Eric Tucker: “That became sort of an interesting development as to how did it get posted in the first place that somebody was in custody who, in fact, was not responsible for the shooting?” (04:48)
• Apprehension of the Suspect:
  The key break came not from the FBI, but from the suspect’s own family reporting him to authorities.

3. Patel’s Leadership Style Under Scrutiny

• Excessive Credit Taking:
  Patel repeatedly emphasized decisions were made “at my direction,” an unusual move for an FBI Director.
  • Eric Tucker: “That's not necessarily how you typically hear the top law enforcement officials describe their own actions in an investigation...” (05:23)

4. Political Theater on Capitol Hill

• Senate and House Hearings:
  Patel faced his first public oversight hearings, which were contentious and predictably partisan.
  • Supportive questioning from Republican senators; heated, combative exchanges with Democrats, especially Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell.
  • Mark Caputo: “This is the first occasion for the committee to get back together since the tragic death of Charlie Kirk.” (02:34)
  • Eric Tucker, on the Democrats’ approach: “There was a lot of name calling, some expletives. And so we really saw these, these, these real tense moments.” (09:05)
• The Epstein Files Controversy:
  Democrats accused Patel of covering up information about the Epstein case, implying Trump’s connections were being concealed.
  • Eric Tucker: “The suggestion was that because President Trump's name is known to be in the Epstein files, that perhaps there was an effort by the government to conceal, which Patel had denied.” (11:02)

5. The FBI Under Pressure and Internal Fractures

• Mass Firings and 'Deep State' Rhetoric:
  • Conservatives critical of Patel's performance point to both his highly public persona and a perceived lack of aggressive 'deep state' purging.
  • Ongoing lawsuits from fired FBI agents allege Patel is “bumbling in his job.” (19:23)
  • Mark Caputo: “There are those who believe that the FBI has too many, quote, deep staters, and more firings need to happen... in the MAGA mind, that has been a mistake.” (19:32)

6. How is Patel Viewed by Trumpworld and the Conservative Base?

• Mixed Reactions:
  • Some leading conservatives (e.g., Chris Rufo) criticize Patel as overly performative online.
  • Trump allies, including Rick Grinnell and the late Charlie Kirk, supported his appointment; his relationship with Trump is close.
  • Mark Caputo: “The most prominent voice online who was criticizing Cash Patel's performance was Chris Rufo. And Rufo... really disliked the performative nature of Patel online.” (17:07)
• Trump’s Seal of Approval:
  • Trump appreciates Patel’s “mix it up” style on Capitol Hill and his willingness to counterattack Democrats openly.
  • Mark Caputo: “Donald Trump likes a winner. And in Trump's mind, they got the guy... Patel has made a good argument as to him having a share or owning a share of the responsibility...” (23:52)
  • Public confrontations, particularly with Cory Booker, are actively highlighted by Trump’s team as positives.
  • Mark Caputo: “Donald Trump likes that stuff. He wants people engaged in the fight. He wants them to mix it up. He wants them to go after Democrats, counter punch and hit hard. And Cash Patel does that.” (26:19)

7. The Limits of Change in a Storied Institution

• Enduring Culture at the FBI:
  Despite the Trump team’s desire for quick transformation, the Bureau remains resistant to rapid overhaul.
  • Mark Caputo: “I'm not saying it's not happening, but I know that people in Patel's orbit have bemoaned how difficult it is to change things. One of them told me, as they said, it's like an asylum over here.” (21:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Patel in Utah:
  • Ian Chillag (00:17): “Our Gujarati, Indian, Hindu FBI director referencing Norse mythology's heaven...”
• Patel’s Public Persona:
  • Eric Tucker (03:44): “We've never had an FBI director who has been so online before and has announced investigative developments on Twitter.”
• Taking Personal Credit:
  • Eric Tucker (05:23): “…at my direction, the FBI released the first set of FBI photos…That's not necessarily how you typically hear the top law enforcement officials describe their own actions in an investigation that frankly involved dozens and dozens and dozens of people.”
• Capitol Hill Confrontations:
  • Eric Tucker (09:05): “And I'm going to answer the question. But you don't like the answer because it's no. I want an answer to my question.”
• On Trump and Patel’s Relationship:
  • Mark Caputo (23:52): “Donald Trump likes a winner. And in Trump's mind, they got the guy...”
• On Changing the FBI:
  • Mark Caputo (21:25): “One of them told me, as they said, it's like an asylum over here. So the deep state, I'm putting that in air quotes, is still resisting the Trump attempt to take over.”
• Patel’s “Valhalla” Comment:
  • Eric Tucker (18:22): “To my friend Charlie Kirk. Rest now, brother. We have the watch and I'll see you in Valhalla.”

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–01:00: Opening, Valhalla comment, set up of the week's drama
• 03:33–05:04: Patel's online announcements, premature custody statement, confusion in Utah investigation
• 06:30–08:11: Patel’s unaccustomed public role, leadership in high-profile crisis, preparation for Capitol Hill
• 08:25–11:30: Contentious Senate and House hearings, partisan splits, Epstein case
• 17:07–20:32: Conservative critiques, internal FBI turmoil, deep state narratives
• 22:03–23:40: Patel as a political figure, media appearances, allies in Trumpworld
• 23:52–26:19: Trump’s reaction to Patel’s style and performance, “fighter” qualities prized
• 21:25: Difficulties in changing the FBI’s culture

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Conclusion

This episode of Today, Explained offers a frank, multi-faceted look at Kash Patel's stormy, very public tenure as FBI Director—from social-media fueled leadership in the wake of a major political assassination, to the sharp-edged theater of Capitol Hill oversight, and the ongoing struggle to reshape the Bureau to fit the Trump administration’s vision in the face of institutional inertia. The episode underscores Patel's controversial blend of personal branding, partisan combativeness, and the high political stakes that now envelop even the highest levels of federal law enforcement.

Transcript

[Ian Chillag]

There hasn't been a lot of comedy in the news lately. Just ask Jimmy Kimmel. But there was maybe one funny moment when Kash Patel approached the mic in Orem, Utah, last week.

[Eric Tucker]

He said, rest now, brother. We have the watch and I'll see you in Valhalla.

[Ian Chillag]

Valhalla, a heavenly place in Norse mythology. As many people pointed out, this was a curious juxtaposition. Our Gujarati, Indian, Hindu FBI director referencing Norse mythology's heaven to say goodbye to his arch conservative Christian friend from the Midwest of the United States, all while hanging out, you know, close to Mormon headquarters in Utah. Weird. Kash Patel has had a very weird week.

[Mark Caputo]

Why are you protecting pedophiles?

[Eric Tucker]

That is maybe the most offensive thing you could say to me, given we're.

[Ian Chillag]

Going to tell you about it on TODAY Explained.

[Eric Tucker]

Foreign.

[Teffy]

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[Ian Chillag]

Catch me outside.

[Mark Caputo]

Have my day catch you outside. What does that mean today?

[Ian Chillag]

Explain Sean Ramis from here with Eric Tucker, who covers the FBI for the Associated Press and been a big week for his beat.

[Eric Tucker]

Very big week. So we had two consecutive days of Cash Patel testifying before both the Senate Judiciary Committee and then the House Judiciary Committee.

[Mark Caputo]

Order without objection, Chair is authorized. Declare recess.

[Eric Tucker]

And these were his first oversight hearings of his seven month tenure.

[Mark Caputo]

This is the first occasion for the committee to get back together since the Tragic death of Charlie Kirk.

[Ian Chillag]

And we want to talk about what happened on Capitol Hill, but we wanna start back in Utah, because Cash Patel hasn't just had a big couple of days in Washington. He's had a huge week, right?

[Eric Tucker]

That's right. And, you know, when you think about the shooting of Charlie Kirk, I think it's safe to say this was always gonna be a very closely scrutinized investigation, not only because of the circumstances of the assassination, but also because Charlie Kirk was truly a fixture in President Donald Trump's orbit, was friends with really significant members of the administration, includes FBI Director Cash Patel. And so one of the things that we saw Director Patel doing right out of the gate is getting the FBI involved. And that's in part because this appeared to be an act of politically motivated violence. And the FBI, by tradition, leads investigations into politically motivated violence.

[Ian Chillag]

And how prominent was his involvement?

[Eric Tucker]

You know, so the first indication of his sort of direct involvement was a post in which he said the FBI was responding.

[Ian Chillag]

We are closely monitoring reports of the.

[Eric Tucker]

Tragic shooting involving Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University. So that came pretty quickly. But if you fast forward the clock a couple hours later, he then made an additional separate post that I think really captured people's attention, in which he said, quote, the subject for the horrific shooting today that took the life of Charlie Kirk is now in custody. And this was notable for a couple different reasons. One, we've never had an FBI director who has been so online before and has announced investigative developments on Twitter. And so that was unusual to happen. But the other thing that was sort of striking is that information actually turned out not to be correct. And around the same time that he made this post, the officials in Utah, law enforcement officials, and the governor on the ground suggested that they were, in fact, still looking for the shooter shortly after the shooting.

[Mark Caputo]

We did have a suspect in custody, George Zinn, but he was released from custody after we identified that he did not match the shoe suspect and was not an accurate person of interest.

[Eric Tucker]

And by the end of the evening, we learned that two different people had been taken into custody but subsequently released. And so that became sort of an interesting development as to how did it get posted in the first place that somebody was in custody who, in fact, was not responsible for the shooting?

[Ian Chillag]

What's Kash Patel's involvement in the eventual apprehension of the suspect?

[Eric Tucker]

I think in this case, they really did rely on a family and the family's friends really blowing the whistle on their own child.

[Ian Chillag]

Robinson's mother saw the photo of the shooter in the news and thought the.

[Mark Caputo]

Shooter looked like her son.

[Eric Tucker]

So they made contact with a family friend who then began the process of contacting local law enforcement. And so that really was the subsequent break. One of the things that was really striking to my ears on Friday morning as you were, as we were watching the news conference, was there were multiple times where Director Patel said, at my direction, XYZ happened at my direction, the FBI released the first set of FBI photos At approximately 8pm where at my direction, the FBI released a never before seen video. Now, typically, that's not really the sort of credit, personal credit, that an FBI director looks to take when a major accomplishment like an arrest is made. But it seemed in that moment that it was important to the FBI director that the public understood his direct and specific role that he played and the credit that he perhaps deserved. And I would say that's not necessarily something that we've come to expect. That's not necessarily how you typically hear the top law enforcement officials describe their own actions in an investigation that frankly involved dozens and dozens and dozens of people.

[Ian Chillag]

I feel like over the course of this investigation in Utah, Cash Patel looks a little uncomfortable in the spotlight. Was this his first time with this much attention on his leadership of the FBI? And if so, how did he do in that spotlight?

[Eric Tucker]

There is no question that this was his biggest leadership test. He's only been on the job for seven months, and he actually had not really had a significant public profile prior to becoming FBI director. He had been a podcaster for the several years leading up to his nomination by President Trump. Hey, everybody, and welcome back to Cash's Corner. We hope everyone. And then before that, he had been a just department prosecutor and a House Intelligence Committee staffer. But he was not really someone who would have been before the television cameras. I mean, one of the things that I think was sort of intriguing was that he and Dan Bongino went out to Utah to be part of the investigation, but then did not speak at a news conference on Thursday night. So he was standing near the podium but did not speak. And I think some people took note of that. And I should say that it's not necessarily common for the FBI director to need to feel compelled to be on site of an investigation. There's typically a big leadership team and there are shots that are being called from Washington. But I think it was important for Director Patel to put himself out there as sort of the public face of this investigation. And I think that's in no small part to the fact that, you know, this is Charlie Kirk, who was killed. And he recognizes that the Trump administration, Trump administration allies, are really hoping for a quick resolution, as is, frankly, the American public.

[Ian Chillag]

And I guess his time in the spotlight in Utah was great preparation for his testimony on Capitol Hill this week. Let's talk about how it went, starting with the Senate questioning.

[Eric Tucker]

I think it was striking to see the hearing really split along strictly partisan lines. So the Republican senators on the committee, who, of course make up the majority, were very supportive in all sorts of ways of Kash Patel's leadership, really elicited testimony favorable to him about, you know, the accomplishments that the FBI has made in the last seven months in terms of combating violent crime. But he really faced a series of contentious exchanges with Democrats on the other side of the aisle on all sorts of questions. Is it probably the most combative exchanges, I would say, with Senator Adam Schiff on Tuesday, Any terminations that the FBI by employees?

[Mark Caputo]

I'm asking you a very specific question.

[Eric Tucker]

And I'm going to answer the question. But you don't like the answer because it's no. I want an answer to my question. Eric Swalwell in the House on Wednesday.

[Ian Chillag]

Who you tell the attorney general that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files, yes or no?

[Eric Tucker]

Why don't you try spelling it out, yes or no?

[Ian Chillag]

Direct the Alphabet, yes or no?

[Eric Tucker]

No. ABC director. Those are people who actually have been sort of his antagonists for many years, dating back to Cash Patel's time as a staffer on the House Intelligence Committee, where he was investigating the investigation into potential collusion between the campaign in Russia in 2016. And so there's a lot of lingering bad feelings and animosity. And I think that you saw tempers really flare where, you know, I think Kash Patel could tell that the line of question was meant to embarrass him or really knock him backwards. And he responded in a way. There was a lot of name calling, some expletives. And so we really saw these, these, these real tense moments.

[Ian Chillag]

How much nastier do things get with the House of Representatives on Wednesday?

[Eric Tucker]

One thing that was really brought into focus before the House, that was not really a center of attention in the Senate was the Jeffrey Epstein case. Now, of course, the FBI and Justice Department in July abruptly announced that they would not be releasing any additional investigative files from the Epstein case file. And that was a decision that stunned people. And so one interesting moment was when Cash Patel was presented at Wednesday's hearing with his own words, with different interviews on podcasts where he had said in.

[Mark Caputo]

2024, you were asked by Glenn Beck about Epstein's black book, and you said he asked who has Jeffrey Epstein's black book? And you said, black book FBI.

[Eric Tucker]

And so Democrats seized on that opportunity to say, you aren't releasing this information. You are part of the government cover up. And so they really tried to attack him on that front. And the suggestion was that because President Trump's name is known to be in the Epstein files, that perhaps there was an effort by the government to conceal, which Patel had denied. He indicated that he had released through the FBI all the information that he was legally empowered and entitled to release.

[Ian Chillag]

You've covered the FBI for a long time. The FBI is important in like a 24, 7, 365 way, not like say, FEMA, which I think we only tend to think about when there's a disaster, disaster in this country. How would you evaluate this week for the Federal Bureau of Investigations? Was it, was it kind of an exceptional one?

[Eric Tucker]

You know, I think from a, from a perspective of getting somebody into custody, 33 hours is not a length of time that felt unusual or problematic or newsy to me, you know, especially given the way that this unfolded. So I don't think that there's lingering scrutiny for why didn't you get him into custody sooner? But I think that the turmoil that existed prior to the shooting that was, you know, took center stage obviously, at the two days of hearings and will continue. I think that remains like really in the public spotlight. The questions about the personnel purge, I think all of that really is going to be something that's going to continue moving forward.

[Ian Chillag]

Eric Tucker reports on the FBI, the Department of justice and National Security for The Associated Press, AP.org you'll remember that in addition to running the FBI, Kash Patel's an accomplished children's book author. The plot against the King is Russiagate for the young ones. Find it wherever you find your books. How Cassius King is feeling about his FBI director when we're back on today explained support for the show today comes from Bombus. They have all the comfy socks, slippers, tees and underwear you'll need for the fall. And they're made from premium materials that actually make sense for this time of year, like merino wool, strong Supima cotton or durable rag wool. Some of my favorites in that list. Nisha Chital is our colleague here at Vox, and she's tried bombas.

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[Mark Caputo]

Cash rules everything around me.

[Eric Tucker]

Green get the money. It's a day today, explained y'. All.

[Mark Caputo]

Mark Caputo, the Trump White House reporter for Axios.

[Ian Chillag]

So we've come to you today to ask you how happy the Republicans are. Maybe the Trump administration is, but we'll get to that later with the job Cash Patel is doing. Clearly, Democrats on Capitol Hill, not very happy. How about Republicans?

[Mark Caputo]

The most prominent voice online who was criticizing Cash Patel's performance was Chris Rufo. And Rufo had, like a lot of people, just really disliked the performative nature of Patel online. We would be wise to take a.

[Ian Chillag]

Moment and ask whether Kash Patel has what it takes to get this done. I've been on the phone the last few days with many conservative leaders, all of whom wholeheartedly support the Trump administration and none of whom are confident that the current structure of the FBI is up to this task.

[Mark Caputo]

And there are a few other conservatives or obviously conservatives in the administration who shared the belief. They just thought, and they think that Patel is a little too much on Twitter or on X or on social media and sort of not more of your traditional hang back, don't say too much. FBI director and in the administration. I quoted in our story in Axios some people saying at the end of the press conference that Patel was at where they announced the arrest of Tyler Robinson. He then made this comment to Charlie Kirk. To my friend Charlie Kirk.

[Eric Tucker]

Rest now, brother. We have the watch and I'll see you in Valhalla.

[Mark Caputo]

And that was, in the words of one official in the administration, quote, cringe.

[Ian Chillag]

What do they want to see Cash Patel doing as director of the FBI?

[Mark Caputo]

Just catching more bad guys. The big thing that is animating the right broadly is the idea that there are a number of leftist groups and organizations who are funneling money to violent, disruptive protests and illegal activity. You have the crazies on the far left who are saying, oh, Stephen Miller and J.D. vance, they're gonna go after constitutionally protected speech. No, no, we're gonna go after the NGO network that foments, facilitates and engages in violence. The last message that Charlie sent me was, I think it was just the day before we lost him, which is that we need to have an organized strategy to go after the left wing organizations that are promoting violence in this country. And those need to be investigated, busted up, and the perpetrators of these alleged crimes brought to justice. There are those who believe that the FBI has too many, quote, deep staters, and more firings need to happen, albeit you see what just happened. Prior to this murder of Charlie Kirk, there was a lawsuit filed by three former FBI agents who alleged that their firing was not only illegal and unlawful, unfair, violated various laws and rules of employment, but also it portrayed Cash Patel as sort of bumbling in his job and not knowing what he's doing. That's the sort of downside of the mass firings, the upside of the mass firings, and is that is what the conservative MAGA base wants. Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, had sort of leapt to the fore with that. She got in office and dismissed a lot of people. Cash Patel hasn't done as many firings. And in the MAGA mind, that has been a mistake.

[Ian Chillag]

A lot of people were worried that Trump was going to remake the FBI in his image. And that, of course, would be an image of not only a president, but a convicted felon. Has Kash Patel yet accomplished that, or is that still to come, or is it unclear?

[Mark Caputo]

Oh, no. I think a lot of these agencies, bureaus, whatever you want to call them, they have career service employees who are harder to fire, harder to dismiss. They have their own culture, history and institutions, and perhaps none as storied and as solid as the FBI.

[Eric Tucker]

We of the FBI feel that we're a part of a team to make America a great and decent place in which to live. We're on that team, all of us together.

[Mark Caputo]

The ability to really change that is going to be difficult. I'm not saying it's not happening, but I know that people in Patel's orbit have bemoaned how difficult it is to change things. One of them told me, as they said, it's like an asylum over here. So the deep state, I'm putting that in air quotes, is still resisting the Trump attempt to take over.

[Eric Tucker]

Hmm.

[Ian Chillag]

What has Kash Patel accomplished since taking over the FBI?

[Mark Caputo]

I think one of the innovations or one of the new things that he has done is made himself much more of a political figure. He's on TV way more than any FBI director ever was.

[Eric Tucker]

All right, FBI Director Cash Patel joins us now. FBI Director Cash Patel.

[Mark Caputo]

Cash, thanks for being with us.

[Eric Tucker]

Joining us again, FBI Director Kash Patel.

[Ian Chillag]

So it sounds like Kash Patel has Lots of static with various people in this administration, with various people in the base. Does he have allies?

[Mark Caputo]

Among the people who wanted Cash Patel to become FBI director was Charlie Kirk. He advocated for him. Kirk had a very close relationship with Donald Trump, was very involved in the transition. And really the closest person to Patel is Rick Grinnell, who was an ambassador and then the director or acting director of National Intelligence during Trump's first term, who is now a special envoy, including to Venezuela. And he and Cash Patel have a very close and good relationship. That was probably the closest thing to his upper level sponsor. But Cash Patel also had a very good relationship with Donald Trump ahead of time. I understand from one source that Trump on Sunday, it was Saturday, went golfing with Kash Patel and a Newsmax personality. So there was sort of a bonding moment there on the links with the president. And from what I'm told, all went well.

[Ian Chillag]

And of course, it's only that person at the top who matters in this administration. How's Trump feeling about Cash Patel in light of recent events in Utah, the hearings on Capitol Hill this week?

[Mark Caputo]

Donald Trump likes a winner. And in Trump's mind, they got the guy. Cash Patel has made a good argument as to him having a share or owning a share of the responsibility, or better said, being able to claim credit for catching the suspect by releasing his photo early, he says, when others had advised against it. And one of the things that you'll look at and notice in conservative or right wing press is a very clear and very smart campaign by Cash Patel and the various people, the FBI and in his orbit to make sure that he's getting credit for that. And who reads conservative media, conservative publications and pays attention to conservative influencers? Donald Trump.

[Ian Chillag]

What is Kash Patel doing that Donald Trump likes? It certainly can't just be that he raised his voice a bunch of times at Adam Schiff and Cory Booker this week on Capitol Hill.

[Mark Caputo]

You want the American people to believe that Donald Trump likes his people engaged and active in the fight. And when you take this additional step of the hearing, Cory Booker has probably ensured that Cash Patel will be like FBI director for life under Donald Trump, so to speak. You know, when Cory Booker comes out there and says, oh, you know, you're not going to be here much longer, you're going to get fired, I think.

[Ian Chillag]

This might be your last oversight hearing. Because as much as you supplicate yourself to the will of Donald Trump and not the Constitution of the United States of America, Donald Trump has shown us in his first term and in this term, he is not loyal to people like you. He will cut you loose.

[Mark Caputo]

I'm not sure if Senator Booker was playing opposite day games, but when a Donald Trump hears something like that, like, oh, Cory Booker thinks he should go, well, I guess I'm going to keep him. That's an important dynamic to remember. And then secondly, when Patel and Booker went at it and there was sort of shouting match and going back and forth and he held his own the Trump Twitter account the what Rapid Response 47 for the White House. They featured it prominently and said that.

[Ian Chillag]

In absolutely unhinged at Sen. Booker disrupts.

[Mark Caputo]

The hearing after at FBI Director Cash.

[Ian Chillag]

Calls out his lies. Corey is a mess.

[Mark Caputo]

So that's sort of the Trump White House seal of approval. Donald Trump likes that stuff. He wants people engaged in the fight. He wants them to mix it up. He wants them to go after Democrats, counter punch and hit hard. And Cash Patel does that.

[Ian Chillag]

Mark Caputo axios.com Miles Bryan, Kelly Wesinger, Jolie Myers, Laura Bullard, Adrian Lilly, Patrick Boyd Vox.com also Peter Balin on Rosen, Danielle Hewitt, Abishai Artsy, Ariana Aspuru, Hadi Mwagdi, Denise Guerra, Devon Schwartz Also also Aminah Al Saadi also also also Miranda Kennedy, Noel King and I are gonna talk about Jimmy Kimmel tomorrow. We use music by Breakmaster. Cylinder Today Explained is distributed by wnyc. The show is a part of the Vox Media Podcast network. Learn more about that [e-mail] and while you're on the Internet, if you want to listen to our show ad free vox.com members. Thank you so much.

[Eric Tucker]

Sam.