Podcast Summary: Today, Explained

Episode: Living in a Winter Bummerland

Date: February 8, 2026
Host: Jonathan Hill (JQ), Vox
Main Guests: Dr. Kelly Rowan (University of Vermont), Dr. Carrie Lebowitz (Health Psychologist, author)

Overview

This episode dives into the emotional toll of winter, focusing on why so many people feel down during the darker, colder months. Host Jonathan Hill unpacks the differences between everyday "winter blues" and clinically diagnosed Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), explores underlying biological and psychological causes, and examines both medical and cultural strategies for coping. With scientific insights from Dr. Kelly Rowan and cultural perspectives from Dr. Carrie Lebowitz (who lived in Arctic Norway), listeners learn not only how to manage winter depression, but perhaps even embrace the season’s unique opportunities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Winter Makes Us Sad

• Shared Experiences:
  • Many guests describe irritability, lack of motivation, and social withdrawal in winter.
    • “I feel like I get more irritable and generally feel like there’s a gray cloud weighing on me.” — Rose Lavelle [01:34]
    • “When it gets dark at like 4pm… the winter and the weather is telling you it's time to go to bed now.” — Podcast Guest with Depression [01:54]
• Statistics:
  • Nearly half of Americans report mood drops in winter; about 5% experience full-on SAD. [02:11]

2. Clinical vs. Everyday Symptoms: Winter Blues vs. SAD

• Dr. Kelly Rowan explains a spectrum:
  • Winter Blues: More fatigue, appetite changes, slower movement, less socializing, but symptoms don't severely disrupt life.
  • SAD: “Seasonal affective disorder is the extreme end where it's clinical depression. In certain seasons…” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [03:28]
  • The duration is key: SAD can last “five months of the year, every year. Rinse and repeat, do it again year after year.” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [07:33]
• Geography, gender, and genetics increase risk (higher latitude, being female, family depression history). [06:28]

3. What Happens in Our Brains?

• Shorter days push the “circadian clock” out of sync with normal routines:
  • “The circadian clock is the part of our brain that regulates our daily rhythms… Longer night, the clock gets out of sync… can make us feel sloggy…” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [05:00]
  • Day length, not just cold, predicts severity, onset, and duration of symptoms. [05:41]

4. When Does it Hit Hardest?

• SAD peaks in January–February, starting as early as the autumn time change, often lasting into March/April. [07:33]
• Holidays may delay initial symptoms; post-holiday “crash” brings the hardest months.

5. Treatments That Work

• Dr. Kelly Rowan highlights three effective, evidence-based interventions: [11:13]
  1. Light Therapy:
     • 10,000 lux full spectrum light simulates sunrise.
     • Should be supervised—a “medical device” not one-size-fits-all.
       • “Just because you can walk into Costco and walk out with a happy light, doesn't mean that you should...” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [11:32]
  2. Antidepressant Medications:
     • Prescribed like for non-seasonal depression.
  3. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for SAD:
     • Focuses on tracking and reframing negative thoughts (“I hate winter,” “I can’t function in winter”), plus behavioral activation—doing activities, connecting socially, avoiding “hibernation mode.”
     • “We try to get people to identify things they can do in the winter that bring a sense of joy… Instead of going into hibernation mode.” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [14:09]

6. Debunking Popular Advice: Vitamin D

• Most northerners are vitamin D deficient in winter, but deficiency alone doesn’t cause SAD.
  • “If it were really about a vitamin D deficiency... everyone north of Boston should have SAD… If you’re concerned, get tested, but don’t expect full reversal with supplements.” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [15:41]

7. Preventive Routines for Early Fall

• Maintain usual routines (social, gym, community activities) even as days get shorter.
• Avoid “first step down the slippery slope” of coming home and “getting under a blanket.”
  • “Stay in your routines, stay active with your groups, keep your social contacts going...” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [16:46]

Embracing the Season: The Nordic Approach

8. Mindset Shifts from the Far North

• Guest Dr. Carrie Lebowitz (author of How to Winter), studied in Tromsø, Norway—where sun doesn’t rise for two months.

  • “I am now a winter person, although I would say that I'm a reformed winter hater.” — Carrie Lebowitz [18:11]
  • People there focus on what’s magical about winter (“cozy, to slow down, to rest…”) and seek joy in the season’s unique elements, rather than just enduring it. [19:12]

• Magical Light and Activities:

  • Even with no sunrise, Norway gets long periods of civil twilight—“magnificent sunrise and sunset colors for two or three or four hours…”
    • “And I think that people in Tromsø really revel in and appreciate this extra special light that they get during the darkest days of the year.” — Carrie Lebowitz [20:19]
  • Activities—skiing, northern lights, whale-watching—help reframe the season.

9. Why Leaving the House Matters

• Movement, nature, and even short outings are “natural antidepressants.” [22:56]
• The more you avoid going out, the more daunting it feels: “The more you stay inside in winter, the more it gets built up in your head as something you can’t do…” — Carrie Lebowitz [22:56]
• Indoor social/cultural activities (movies, classes, gym with friends) are essential, wherever you live.

10. Cultural Differences: U.S. vs. Cold-Weather Cultures

• Nordic countries have traditions of communal gatherings—allies in survival.
• In the U.S., pressure to be equally productive year-round leads many to fight seasonal rhythms—and get exhausted.
  • “So much of the culture in the U.S. wants us to be the same all year round… it's almost like a willpower failure if you're not.” — Carrie Lebowitz [24:23]
• Instead, embracing “fallow periods”—like animals and plants do—can be restorative.

11. Small Rituals to Make Winter Enjoyable

• "Big light off":
  • In the Nordics, homes glow with lamps and candles.
  • “No overhead lights, just small lights, preferably candles... intentionally embracing the darkness transforms something that feels like a burden into this opportunity for cozy, moody, peaceful, restful lighting.” — Carrie Lebowitz [27:04]

Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• “It just gets really, really dark and it can get really depressing.” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [01:07]
• “Seasonal affective disorder is on a continuum where most people at a high latitude are gonna have some symptoms. It's just a question of how many and how bad.” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [03:28]
• “Circadian clock gets kind of out of sync with the light dark cycle and can make us feel kind of sloggy…” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [05:00]
• “The holidays are somewhat invigorating for people… But then after the new year, what’s left?” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [07:33]
• “Just because you can walk into Costco and walk out with a happy light, doesn't mean that you should...” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [11:32]
• “If it were really about a vitamin D deficiency... everyone north of Boston should have SAD…” — Dr. Kelly Rowan [15:41]
• “I am now a winter person, although I would say that I'm a reformed winter hater.” — Carrie Lebowitz [18:11]
• “Winter in Tromsø is uniquely magical… It's giving Disney's Frozen, right? It's giving Anna and Elsa, right?” — Carrie Lebowitz [21:19]
• “Every animal slows down in the winter one way or another. And so I think it's very natural to feel more tired in the winter…” — Carrie Lebowitz [26:01]
• “No overhead lights, just small lights, preferably candles… intentionally embracing the darkness transforms something that feels like a burden into this opportunity for cozy, moody, peaceful, restful lighting.” — Carrie Lebowitz [27:04]

Important Timestamps

• [01:04–02:27] — Personal experiences of winter mood dips and intro to SAD
• [03:13–09:14] — Dr. Rowan on symptoms, who is most at risk, timing and course of SAD
• [11:01–15:40] — Dr. Rowan on treatments: light therapy, meds, CBT, and vitamin D
• [16:34–17:48] — Preventive strategies and keeping routines
• [18:11–28:24] — Carrie Lebowitz on the Nordic mindset, civil twilight, rituals, and reframing seasonal darkness

Takeaways

• SAD is common and deeply linked to the amount of daylight, not just cold; most people experience some form of the “winter blues.”
• Effective treatments include light therapy, antidepressants, and cognitive behavioral therapy—consult a professional; don’t self-prescribe light boxes.
• Adopting a winter-positive mindset, reframing darkness and cold as opportunities for rest and connection, and small rituals (like candlelight) can ease the emotional toll.
• Staying socially connected and active—indoors or outdoors—can help stave off depressive symptoms.
• Cultures more in tune with the seasons (like Norway’s) thrive by embracing winter, not fighting it.