Noel King (2:00)

I don't know. Dave Weigel, Semaphore two plus weeks into a shutdown, let's talk about Chuck Schumer.

Dave Weigel (2:10)

With open enrollment around the corner, Republicans cannot continue to kick this can down the road. It's happening now.

Noel King (2:18)

Chuck Schumer had an opportunity to shut the government down earlier this year and he passed on it.

Dave Weigel (2:23)

Here's what would happen if we cut off government spending. It would Be devastation like we have never seen.

Noel King (2:30)

Is this a redemption arc for him? Is there a sense that, like, okay, Chuck Schumer finally made the right move.

Dave Weigel (2:37)

That's part of it. Republicans have tried to make that central to their argument against the Democrats, that Schumer's only doing this because he's worried about a primary challenge, worried about the left. The Marxists are about to elect a mayor in New York City. That's Chuck Schumer's state. And he's terrified that he's going to get a challenge from his far left. I've noted that Chuck Schumer is a very far left politician, but he's not far enough left for the Communists. It's a little rich because what Republican in Congress is not making some decisions based on whether Trump will endorse a primary challenger. Schumer is not up again until 2028. However, what happened? You set it up. Well, the last time was that there were demands by protesters indivisible, the other organizers of no Kings protests for the government to be shut down because Trump was acting, in their words, like a king and you needed to cut off his resources. Democrats at the time said two things, and Democrats being Schumer. One, the executive branch, Trump, Musk, Doge, and this really evil man people don't know about Vote, who's head of omb. His name is Vote. They could cut off anything they want simply by saying it's not essential. And two, Trump's gonna be less popular later in the year. So we're gonna have a better fight, Better conditions for a fight, I should say. Two things happened. One, he did get slightly less popular, although he's still not as unpopular as he was at this point eight years ago. And two, Russ Vogue just did that. Anyway, we want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. And that has changed Democrats calculation, too. What is different about a shutdown environment or a environment where the government is funded? And this also gets into when they pass something, if they pass a continuing resolution. Well, the last one had funding for a bunch of jobs and programs that were cut by the president. And Republicans passed a rescissions package saying, we are cutting more of the funding that you appropriated with 51 Senate votes. Yes. We needed seven of your votes in the Senate to get this through the filibuster. We have a different tactic that gets us to cut it without coming to you for anything. What position does that put Democrats in? Well, basically in the position of explaining what's going on and hoping that the country says you're Right. Democrats, we'd like to vote for you now.

Noel King (4:51)

So Schumer is doing okay, right? It hasn't been a disaster for the life of Chuck. Then we have Hakeem Jeffries. Hakeem Jeffries very clearly wants to make a name for himself at this moment. He's been out there, he's been public. He tried to do a livestream when the shutdown started.

Dave Weigel (5:10)

Good afternoon, everybody. House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries here.

Noel King (5:14)

As I understand it, no one came to his live stream. Where do we position Jeffries in all this?

Dave Weigel (5:20)

Well, Jeffries is not very well known as a national figure. Schumer is better known and more disliked. There does seem to be a gap between how good his team thinks he is at presenting a face for the party and how good he actually is. There was a very small but telling controversy a couple months ago where Jeffries social media team kept posting photos of him with slightly distorted backgrounds which looked to everybody like they were using an app to make him look cooler. Utter calamity of the week goes to none other than Hakeem Jeffries.

Tia Mitchell (5:51)

The photo captioned Home sweet Home shows Jeffries leaning against a park bench. But something's off. The bench is visibly warped.

Dave Weigel (5:59)

And the question was, who is that for? Who is the person undecided about whether they showed for the Democrat is paying attention to this. So how does a opposition leader get known? Sometimes they can do something popular. That's pretty rare. Often they become the bogeyman of ads from the other party. Nancy Pelosi was because she was from San Francisco, and that has lots of connotations in politics. Republicans immediately attacked her when she took over the Democratic leadership in 2003 as a San Francisco liberal. That hasn't happened to Jeffries. If you look at even Republican advertising, how often do they use the face of Jeffries versus the face of Alexandra CAS Cortez? Or it's still Joe Biden. But in this fight right now, Jeffries is getting on TV more. He's doing more interviews, and he is methodical in interviews. I've thrown him questions at his press conferences, his weekly press conferences. He does not stutter. He does not go bereft for an answer. He has something to say. He turns it back to what he wants to say. Republicans say again and again, it is Democrats that are holding up this deal. How do you respond?

Noel King (7:06)

Well, we want to see the government.

Dave Weigel (7:07)

Shutdown come to an end as well. Never should have occurred. And unfortunately, Donald Trump and the Republicans decided that they would rather shut the government down than provide health care to working class Americans. He has impressed some Democrats with how he's handled this from that very low starting point where they weren't sure that he was the kind of leader that could inspire anybody.

Noel King (7:26)

Is it a problem for him that Republicans still want to make AOC the face of the shutdown, the face of the opposition? Like the real question seems to be, there are many real questions here. There seem to be questions about Jeffrey's charisma.

Dave Weigel (7:41)

The overall Republican argument is that these guys aren't really leaders of anything. They have a crazy violent movement undergirding everything they're doing. And Republicans have been very comfortable in the last few days, very comfortable saying these no Kings protests, which are organized by very mainstream liberal electoral groups, that they're not anarchists. They just want to get elected and do things. The most violent thing they can do, if you look at a charging document, is blocking a truck from moving into an ice center. The theory we have right now, they have a Hate America rally that's scheduled for October 18th on the National Mall. It's all the pro Hamas wing and the, you know, the, the antifa people. They're all coming out. Their argument being these Democrats are run by crazy people who, who cares what Chuck Schumer thinks because he can't control them. It's being told to us that they won't be able to reopen the government until after that rally.

Noel King (8:33)

All right, so at the end of the day, there is a simplistic version of the big question around the shutdown, which is who's gon. Who's going to win the messaging and who's going to take the blame? I was at the airport over the weekend and I was trying to find the video that the federal government is playing where Kristi Noem blames the Democrats. Democrats in Congress refuse to fund the federal government, and because of this, many of our operations are impacted. It was not playing in the Denver airport at that time, but a lot of people have said, look, the Republicans have got the weight of the federal government behind them as they try to make their argument that this is the fault of the Democrats. Who do you think is winning the messaging here? And do you see that shifting at all in the next couple of. However long this shutdown lasts?

Dave Weigel (9:17)

Have you seen the country's view of the parties change over this? Not really so electorally. The only thing coming up in November are elections in a few states, races for governor, New Jersey and Virginia. In those races, Democrats have been very comfortable saying, I am supporting any fight for health care and for federal workers. Because if we don't fight, then Republicans are going to make your health care bills go up, and we are the party that will make your health care bills go down.

Noel King (9:48)

Yeah. And to sum it up, what I've seen of polling, but tell me if I'm wrong, is people at the moment are blaming Republicans more.

Tia Mitchell (9:55)

A new poll shows a majority of.

Dave Weigel (9:57)

Americans blame Republicans for the shutdown. And you can see it's a sweep across the board. You look at the New York Times poll, Blame Republicans more by seven points. How about the CBS poll, came out yesterday, Blame Republicans more by nine points. This is tied into the way Trump is handling it. So there was more of an equanimity between how people viewed the president and the Congress in prior shutdowns. The theme of the second Trump administration has been that he is able to use powers and the court will sign off on it, and he can do things without going to Congress. And so he comes into the shutdown with this image of regal power, ability to do whatever he wants. That's what Democrats are running against saying. This president runs. The government takes credit for doing everything. If things get worse, they will blame the president because it just doesn't stand to reason, if you're paying a little bit of attention as a voter, that the imperial president is undone by Democrats who don't run anything.

Noel King (10:55)

All right, Dave, So some weeks back, the Democrats decided they were going to make this shutdown about health care, and that was a choice. At the moment, there is some reporting that Republicans might be willing to make compromises on the Obamacare subsidies. In the meantime, you have Marjorie Taylor Greene out there beating the drum saying, like, the party is failing people, the Republicans are failing people on health care. Do you think the Democrats could get some tangible wins through the shutdown?

Dave Weigel (11:23)

Well, one way it could end would be a compromise that extends Obamacare subsidies through next year. Would Republicans run on we saved part of Obamacare? Probably not. But they've done this before. They've won governing trifecta a couple times since Barack Obama left office. And they don't get rid of the Affordable Care Act. Now, the last Trump midterm election, 2018, the. The fact that Republicans went after healthcare funding was a incredibly harmful issue for them. If Republicans can punt that argument into 2027, that probably would be better for them Electorally, it's not good to be holding the bag if voters see their costs go up and blame you.

Noel King (12:08)

Semaphore's Dave Weigel coming up in a shutdown that became all about health care How MAGA darling Marjorie Taylor Greene ended up making the strongest case for the democr. Support for Today Explained comes from Green Chef Green Chef thinks fall is the perfect time to reset and bring back those healthy habits. Lock in they call it. Green Chef says their recipes feature organic seasonal produce and responsibly sourced proteins to help you feel your best salads ready in five minutes. Protein filled breakfasts, those nutrient rich smoothies that you do know so well. The recipes change every week and with their new heat meat meals you can prepare a delicious wholesome meal in just three minutes. Claire White what do you think?

Marjorie Taylor Greene (13:05)

I know that when I'm receiving a box from Green Chef the produce is going to be very high quality and in season. Recently I had some creamy tomato penne with zucchini and the zucchini was super fresh.

Noel King (13:17)

It was at the peak of its.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (13:18)

Ripeness and made the dish super elevated.

Noel King (13:21)

It's not something I would have thought.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (13:23)

Of to do on my own and so that's why I really like Green Chef is they're showing me recipes that I might not combine myself but turn out so delicious.

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Tia Mitchell (13:48)

Not all journalism is the same.

Dave Weigel (13:50)

Take the Guardian. Our coverage has something unique fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say, so we're free to report the whole picture. We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe, expose corruption wherever we find it, and give fresh perspective on everything from wellness and soccer to culture, the climate and more. Read, watch and listen to the Guardian.

Noel King (14:15)

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Tia Mitchell (15:25)

You'Re listening.

Noel King (15:25)

To today, explained Noel from before with Tia Mitchell, the Washington bureau chief for the Atlanta Journal Constitution, host of the Politically Georgia podcast. She's been covering Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene for years, and Tia says her shocking turn is not that shocking.

Tia Mitchell (15:41)

No, it's not surprising to me, because to understand Marjorie Taylor Greene a, you have to understand that she comes from hard right Maga. She does not identify as QAnon anymore. She denounced it early in her career, but that was like her origin story. That's where she comes from.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (16:01)

The fake news media hates me. Big tech censors me. The DC Swamp fears me and George Soros and the Democrats are trying to take me down. There is an Islamic invasion into our government offices right now.

Tia Mitchell (16:17)

She comes from kind of that Christian nationalist, ultra conservative movement. She believes that trans people really shouldn't exist. She does not believe abortion should exist. But on the issue of a lot of populist things, the consistency with the.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (16:36)

Epstein files, the shame falls on the people. People in power over the past several decades that protected the monster Jeffrey Epstein and his cabal that continued a nightmare. Those people deserve the shame, the consistency.

Tia Mitchell (16:54)

With wanting to not fund a war that is ravaging Gaza.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (16:59)

They're not Hamas. They're literally women and children. And you can't unsee the amount of pictures and videos of children that have been blown to pieces.

Tia Mitchell (17:11)

And so for Marjorie Taylor Greene, she is someone who says, my values have always been my values. I've never wavered. And if that means sometimes I have to disagree with President Trump, then so be it, because I'm not wavering from where I stood all along.

Noel King (17:32)

Let's talk about the shutdown and what she's been saying there. What is her main point of divergence with much of the rest of the Republican Party?

Tia Mitchell (17:40)

That comes from being a mother, she says.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (17:45)

I'm a mom. And so when it comes to what is affecting my adult children's lives who are 22, 26 and 28, I'm going to be 1000% fighting for them over any politician in any party. And I can tell you right now, that generation, they are barely making it. And they're very hopeless for their future.

Tia Mitchell (18:08)

And so her criticism has been that the issue Democrats raised, that if the subsidies are allowed to expire, many people's insurance, and we're talking about millions of people, their insurance will go up in ways that they will find it hard to afford coverage. And she says Republicans, instead of engaging with this real issue, are just kind of saying, oh, that's just Democrats belly aching. That's just Democrats trying to keep the government shut down. And they're not really listening to voters and they're not engaging on what she says is a valid issue that should.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (18:53)

Be addressed to allow Democrats to have some sort of moral high ground on this issue, because they're only one, the only ones talking about it, I think is a major failure from the Republican Party. And I'm not going to stand there and just keep talking the talking points.

Tia Mitchell (19:10)

When she wasn't necessarily saying do what the Democrats want. She wasn't even necessarily saying, I think the Democrats are right on their fix. She's saying the Democrats are right in talking about it. Why aren't we Republicans also talking about it? Why don't we Republicans and have an answer for the people who say, well, what are you going to do about the cost of health coverage?

Marjorie Taylor Greene (19:34)

Well, I don't think it's good advice that a government shutdown is going to help Republicans in the midterms. I don't agree with that. I also don't think it's good advice that Republicans ignoring the health insurance crisis is going to be good for midterms. I actually think that will be very bad for midterms.

Noel King (19:56)

You know, we have been covering since the big, beautiful bill passed, we've been covering the fact that many people who get these ACA subsidies, they live in red states. They are people who voted for President Trump. How do her constituents in Georgia feel about the way in which she's standing up for them, even if it puts her at odds with the president?

Tia Mitchell (20:17)

I mean, they've always stood beside her. They've always. Her constituents in her district would say, well, I like that she's not afraid to speak her mind. Yeah, I might not agree with everything she says. Sometimes I think she goes too far. But at the end of the day, she's fighting for us. She's not bowing down to, you know, the woke mob. And so now she has evolved. She, you know, she's in her third term now. She's learning how to play the game. She's learning that sometimes you do have to vote for bills you don't like for the greater good or to get something good in the bill, even if you don't like other things in the bill that you think are bad. And she is learning how to work with her co workers and her colleagues in Congress. She's toned down some of her more controversial rhetoric. She's apologized when people have accused her again of antisemitism, for example.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (21:14)

There is no comparison to the Holocaust. And there are words that I have said and remarks that I've made that I know are offensive, and for that I want to apologize.

Noel King (21:25)

It is hard to see in our present day how she would live down something like Jewish space lasers, for example. You're talking about her moderating. And I wonder, is she moderating because she understands that politically she needs to moderate to survive, or is Marjorie Taylor Greene actually changing?

Tia Mitchell (21:46)

So I don't know if moderating is the right word because she's still very conservative. She's still hard. Right? But I think she has moderated. If the word is to be used, it's in her approach. What's different in what I think looks like moderation, but it's not really moderation. It's just a lot of Republican leaders, elected officials, shift to align with Donald Trump in ways that don't fall in a clear box, right. Of, you know, conservative or moderate. They just fall in the box of, did you do what Donald Trump wanted you to do? Did you say what Donald Trump wanted you to say? And so she doesn't shift in that way. And so sometimes it looks like she's falling outside of that box, but really it's the box that's shifting, not her. She says, I still remain aligned with President Trump. I'm a big champion of his. I'm loyal to him. It's just I choose to disagree at times. But the more you understand her and where she comes from, the less those disagreements will surprise you.

Noel King (22:59)

There's something you're nodding to here, which is that MAGA and Donald Trump used to be synonymous. Marjorie Taylor Greene is one of those interesting flashpoints that proves that In October of 2025, Maga and Donald Trump are not synonymous anymore.

Tia Mitchell (23:17)

Or you could say MAGA means different things to different people, because I think some people would say to be MAGA means aligned with Donald Trump. And so we've seen people like Laura Loomer and Marjorie Taylor Greene openly disagree about which direction to take her rhetoric.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (23:39)

And her tone is, is, does not match the base, does not match MAGA does not match most Republicans I know, and I am completely denouncing it. I'm over it.

Tia Mitchell (23:50)

And quite frankly, you know, before his death, Charlie Kirk was involved in some of those, you know, internal spats among Republicans about what it truly means to be Mago and where that aligns with President Trump. And it's fascinating to watch. And it's going to be fascinating, particularly if and when Donald Trump decides to get out of active politics, you know, because right now, he's the glue that holds it together, even loosely.

Noel King (24:23)

It is interesting to see how Democrats, some Democrats, maybe not even elected Democrats, but. But people who vote Democrat have embraced Marjorie Taylor Greene. They really like the way she's talking about health care and the way she won't let up. Does she want that? Does she want support from the other side?

Tia Mitchell (24:41)

I think she likes the fact that people are starting to listen to her. And some of that is just, she came in hot and controversial and leaning into that, and that gave her a brand of being someone that people on the left just didn't want to hear from. And so they didn't listen to her. They didn't engage with her. And so what we're hearing from some Democrats are like, wow, I spent five minutes listening to Marjorie Taylor Greene, and by, darn it, she makes sense. I can't believe I find myself agreeing with some of the things she's saying. And I think for her, she is gratified by the fact that when people listen to her, they shed the assumption that she's just a crazy QAnon lady who has nothing intelligent to say. Now, does she want to be a Democrat? Absolutely not. Not too long ago, we were gave our elected officials more flexibility to like. It doesn't have to be either you're with us or you're against us at all times. We thought our elected officials should find places where they had common ground. And when there was common ground, you worked together. You didn't just say, well, I can't cross the aisle because those people are our enemy. I think that's the other thing. For some Democrats and people watching Marjorie Taylor Greene, it's not challenging that. It's challenging that thinking that, oh, yeah, Marjorie Taylor Greene is. Is all of these things. But can I still agree with her sometimes? Can I still hear her out and find common ground? And what does that say about what I think in my politics? She doesn't have to be all bad, I guess, is what some people are realizing. And maybe if they realize that about Marjorie Taylor Greene, they'll realize that about other people in politics. And I just think that's a hard place in our political climate. For people to reckon with.

Noel King (27:04)

Tia Mitchell is the Washington Bureau Chief of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Myles Bryan and Danielle Hewitt producer today's show. Aman El Saadi edited, Patrick Boyd and Adrian Lilly engineered and Laura Bullard is our senior researcher. Hey, here's some news. The very talented Estad Herndon is joining vox. AED was a political reporter at the New York Times. You may know he also hosted the Run up podcast and he is going to be filling in for Sean Ramas firm over the next five months. We are very excited to have him with us and you're going to start hearing him on the show around the end of this month. Now if you're a fan of Today Explained, you could consider becoming a VOX member. Cool perks like ad free versions of the show, unlimited reading on the website, a member exclusive newsletter. So much more. If you sign up now, you get 30% off an annual membership. You can go to Vox.commembers to join. I'm Noel King. It's TODAY Explained. Support for this show comes from Ollie. Dogs deserve the best and that means fresh, healthy food. Ollie delivers clean, fresh nutri in five unique flavors that even the pickiest eaters could love. So head to ollie.com Vox tell them all about your dog and use code Vox to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus, they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box, so if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back.

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