Nike lost its cool

Summary

Today, Explained — “Nike Lost Its Cool”

Date: June 11, 2026
Host: Noel King
Guests: Amanda Chicago Lewis (journalist, The Economist), Lauren Sherman (fashion correspondent, Puck)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the fading coolness of major brands, focusing on the dramatic shift at Nike—once the standard-bearer for cultural relevance. The hosts and their guests trace Nike’s transformation from a cultural powerhouse to a company stumbling to restore its zeitgeist status. The conversation expands to the decline of millennial-born brands like Everlane and Glossier, linking these shifts to broader cultural, economic, and generational changes.

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Part I: Nike — From Peak Cool to Struggling Giant

The Problem: Nike’s Lost Cool

• [00:01] Noel King opens by questioning if Nike is still 'cool.'
• Amanda Chicago Lewis explains that coolness is subjective but acknowledges Nike’s stagnation:

  “Their stock price is under $50, which is as low as it's been since 2015.” (00:20, Amanda Chicago Lewis)

• While Nike still sells more shoes than any competitor, sales are falling and investors are spooked by a lack of growth.

The Coolness Crisis

• Coolness is in decline across big American brands:

  “Apple is not cool. Amazon is not cool. Nike is not cool. Starbucks is not cool. Big brands are not very cool right now.” (00:29, Amanda Chicago Lewis)

• The issue isn’t a lack of sales but a lack of cultural momentum.

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How Nike Got So Big…and What Went Wrong

• [03:05] Nike’s ascent:
  • In the 1980s, Nike leveraged Michael Jordan’s magnetism to pivot from a niche running brand to an American mass culture phenomenon.
  • Nike’s magic formula: Harnessing the image of self-actualization, independence, and rebellion.
  • The “Just Do It” campaign memorialized the power of individual effort, once politically and culturally unifying.

Shifts in Cultural Values

• Modern consumers are less moved by the old “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” narrative.

  “Personal willpower...has become pretty much passe as I think people have talked more about the systemic forces that influence our lives.” (04:37, Amanda Chicago Lewis)

• Nike’s dabbling in “social justice flavored marketing” (without radical corporate change) drew skepticism.

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The 2018 Kaepernick Campaign: The Turning Point

• [05:47] Nike’s campaign featuring Colin Kaepernick—a moment of cultural contestation.
  • The ad drew both praise and backlash, but didn’t significantly dent sales or share price.
  • The controversy lingered, especially among conservatives and the Trump administration.
  • Trump’s tweet, mimicked by the hosts:

    “Nike is getting absolutely killed with anger and boycotts.” (06:22, Nene, quoting Trump)

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Leadership Missteps and the Pandemic Pivot

• [06:40] CEO John Donahoe, hired in 2020, lacked fashion and cultural instincts.
  • Nike bet heavily on direct-to-consumer sales, cutting retail partnerships and Amazon.
  • This worked—until the pandemic receded and customers returned to physical stores (where Nike was absent).
  • The board replaced Donahoe with a new CEO in fall 2024.

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Geopolitics, Tariffs, and Political Anxiety

• Nike’s founding model—global outsourcing—left it vulnerable to U.S. tariffs.

  • Trump’s 2025 tariffs cost Nike over $1 billion in a single year.
  • Nike couldn’t secure exceptions due to cultural/political baggage from the Kaepernick episode.

• Nike’s retreat to “apolitical” stances:

  • Fearful of further ire from Washington and further investigation.
  • EEOC began scrutinizing Nike’s DEI programs in 2024, intensifying post-Trump re-election.

  “With both the tariffs and the EEOC investigation, Nike is trying to not be noticed by those in charge. …Being afraid is a terrible position to be in for a company that is trying to regain its place in the zeitgeist and be cool again.” (10:14, Amanda Chicago Lewis)

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Nike’s New Strategy: A Desperate Gamble

• [11:04] Nike attempts to resurrect “celebrity-powered” cool:
  • Historically, Nike sought “a celebrity on their way up, someone cool, someone charismatic, particularly someone talented at sports.”
  • But their big new partnership is with…Kim Kardashian.
  • Kardashian, not an athlete, is tapped for her dominance in athleisure as Skims rivals Lululemon.

    “At this moment, for Nike, the new Michael Jordan is Kim Kardashian. Make of that what you will.” (12:10, Amanda Chicago Lewis)

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Part II: The Collapse of Millennial Brands

What Defined the Millennial Brand Wave?

• [15:36] Lauren Sherman joins to discuss “millennial brands”—brands born in the 2010s, digital-first, preaching transparency, ethics, and aspirational minimalism.
  • Examples: Everlane, Warby Parker, Glossier, Allbirds.
  • Their DNA:

    “We're gonna make it better, we’re gonna make it more efficiently, we’re gonna make it look cooler, we're gonna do all these things. And because we know better than our elders…” (15:53, Lauren Sherman)

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The Case of Everlane: Rise and Fall

• Everlane’s early promise: Transparent pricing, ethical sourcing, and “the coolest basics on the planet.”

• It thrived for a decade, then faltered from:

  • Overexpansion, raising too much private equity.
  • A drift away from its core, as consumer trends shifted and “woke” branding faced a backlash.

• [19:40] Sold to Shein, the very opposite of Everlane’s founding ideals—sparking outrage:

  “Shein is basically the antithesis of everything that Everlane has built its reputation on and stands for.” (20:19, Nene & Amanda Chicago Lewis)

  “I will stop recommending Everlane and I will add it to my list of fashion brands to avoid…” (20:36, Amanda Chicago Lewis)

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The End of the “Lifestyle Subsidy” Era

• Millennial brands relied on easy venture capital and the expectation that growth, not profit, mattered.
• Now, with profitability at a premium, many are failing or adapting awkwardly:
  • Allbirds is pivoting to the AI sector.
  • Everlane is resigned to be a side asset for Shein with little brand integrity remaining.
  • Only Warby Parker endures, having truly filled a needed gap in the market (affordable, good-quality glasses).

“All birds: no. Everlane: probably not. …Glossier could potentially get back on track. But the reality is… in this market, we’re just gonna see brands turn over more quickly.” (24:49, Lauren Sherman)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Nike’s predicament:

  “Being afraid is a terrible position to be in for a company that is trying to regain its place in the zeitgeist and be cool again.” (10:14, Amanda Chicago Lewis)

• On Kim Kardashian as Nike’s new MJ:

  “At this moment, for Nike, the new Michael Jordan is Kim Kardashian. Make of that what you will.” (12:10, Amanda Chicago Lewis)

• On Everlane’s existential collapse:

  “Shein is basically the antithesis of everything that Everlane has built its reputation on and stands for.” (20:19, Nene & Amanda Chicago Lewis)

• On the fleeting nature of modern brand relevance:

  “…None of these things became the Levi’s of their category. …If you want to be around for 100 years, you have to be Louis Vuitton or Levi’s or Nike…And that's what you kind of have to do to have longevity.” (25:19, Lauren Sherman)

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• 00:01–02:10 — Cold open: What happened to Nike’s cool factor?
• 02:13–05:59 — Nike’s rise, the Jordan era, and the shift from self-actualization to contested “Just Do It” politics.
• 06:40–10:42 — Corporate missteps, tariffs, political trouble, and the DEI investigation.
• 11:04–12:27 — Nike’s comeback bid: Kim Kardashian and the risk of clutching at cultural straws.
• 15:32–22:05 — The death of millennial brands: Everlane’s fall, the failed promise of transparency, and the shift in market logic.
• 22:54–26:16 — What’s left: Glossier’s struggle, Warby Parker’s exception, and the core takeaway—most brands can’t be everlasting.

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Key Takeaways

• Coolness is fleeting: What made major brands like Nike and Everlane soar—cultural relevance—is hard to sustain in a shifting landscape.
• Politics and geopolitics matter: Campaigns like Kaepernick’s brought risks that haunt Nike years later.
• Business models must adapt: Direct-to-consumer is not a panacea; market dynamics shift quickly.
• Generational shifts: Millennial brands and their narrative are increasingly at odds with new cultural and economic realities.
• The exception to the rule: Warby Parker’s success highlights the importance of truly filling a market need.

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This episode offers a rich, critical look at the unpredictability of cultural capital in the business world—and what happens when brands lose the “cool” that once made them unstoppable.

Transcript

[Noel King]

Is Nike uncool?

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

You know, I mean, certainly what's cool is a little bit in the eye of the beholder. And not being a particularly cool person myself, I don't want to assert what is and isn't cool for all people.

[Noel King]

That said, Nike sales have been weak for the last few years and the company's stock is dipping.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Their stock price is under $50, which is as low as it's been since 2015.

[Noel King]

What happened?

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Apple is not cool. Amazon is not cool. Nike is not cool. Starbucks is not cool. Big brands are not very cool right now.

[Noel King]

Nike still sells a lot of shoes. Starbucks sells a lot of coffee. Amazon sells a lot of everything. The issue is not, I think I hear you saying that these companies don't sell, right? It's that they just aren't cool. Coming up on Today explained from Vox when your company loses its riz

[Lauren Sherman]

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[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

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[Nene]

You're listening to Today Explained.

[Noel King]

Who says Nike isn't cool? That would be Amanda Chicago Lewis, a journalist who recently wrote a big piece for the Economist titled Nike Just can't do it Anymore. What's she using as proof?

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Nike still sells more shoes and more athletic shoes than any other company. However, the numbers are going down and what investors usually like to look at is growth. Which companies are getting bigger? Which companies have the momentum? And so if you see a company becoming uncool and the sales are going down, that's not like a very good sign for the sustainability in the future.

[Noel King]

Okay, so Nike is not growing. Once upon a time, Nike was the biggest thing in the universe. Or so it seemed. Tell me the story of how Nike went from the highest of highs to where it is now. What happened exactly?

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

What happened with Nike is when a brand goes from niche cool to mass cool, and Nike really did that with Michael Jordan in the 1980s.

[Lauren Sherman]

How does Mike defy gravity? Do you know?

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Do you know?

[Nene]

Do you know? Do you know?

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Is it the short socks?

[Noel King]

No, ma money. It's gotta be the shoes.

[Nene]

Shoes, shoes, shoes.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

You sure it's not the shoes?

[Nene]

I'm sure.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

It went from being a brand that was seen as, you know, associated with joggers, with people who were sort of running for self actualization reasons, to something that everyone was buying all across the United States and associated, you know, with one of the most popular athletes of all time. In order to make that pivot and stay relevant, the brand needed to attach it to self, to American iconography, which generally has to do with independence, with rebellion, with freedom. For Nike. Remember in the late 80s, there was a commercial that was set to the Beatles song Revolution.

[Lauren Sherman]

You say you want a revolution.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Well, you know, and then there was just do it, right? The idea of personal willpower being something that can allow you to overcome anything. You know, the first commercial that involved just do it involved a guy who was 80 years old going on a run. So it's like, just because you're old, you can still do it.

[Nene]

You know, I run 17 miles every morning.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

That as sort of a political stance. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You know, individual responsibility was something that was sort of cross partisan maybe in the 1990s and the early 2000s, but in the last 10 years or so has become pretty much passe as I think people have talked more about the systemic forces that influence our lives. As Nike, you know, attempted to have what I describe in the piece as social justice flavored marketing for such a long time that was sort of referencing seemingly progressive politics without necessarily, you know, being a company that followed through on those politics. Depending on the situation, the things got more complicated. Right? And I think the major turning point came in 2018 when Nike did a campaign with the football player Colin Kaepernick, who had essentially been ostracized by the NFL for kneeling during the national anthem in protest of police brutality and racial injustice.

[Nene]

Believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything.

[Noel King]

And just like Kaepernick, the ad and

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

his involvement is simultaneously drawing praise and sparking backlash.

[Nene]

Not only am I burning my favorite pair of Nikes, you are burning your sales. Have a good day.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

It caused a lot of controversy, but it didn't really substantially affect sales of the company. It didn't really affect the stock price. But it was something that conservatives remembered and it was certainly something that Trump remembered.

[Nene]

Just like the NFL, whose ratings have gone way down, Nike is getting absolutely killed with anger and boycotts. I wonder if they had any idea that it would be this way. As far as the NFL is concerned, I just find it hard to watch and always will until they stand for the flag.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

So in 2020, a new CEO was brought in. His name was John Donahoe. And he didn't really understand fashion, he didn't really understand marketing, he didn't really understand how to keep things cool. And as the pandemic was beginning, he oversaw the company's transition to a direct to consumer model. So they started cutting out retail stores. They stopped selling through Amazon. And this, particularly during the pandemic, really juiced profits and the stock price. Because obviously when you don't have to, you know, when you're not cutting the retailer in on the price and you're just selling direct to consumer, you can make a lot more money off of that sale. However, as people started getting vaccinated, the pandemic ended and people went back into stores and Nikes weren't there. Nobody was really buying Nikes. And the CEO, that CEOs management of coolness was not really working and ended up causing them to push him out in the fall of 2024, right as Nike was entering this moment with a new CEO, they were also afraid of upsetting Trump because the other thing to know about Nike is the reason why the company was founded was outsourcing Nike. Bringing cheap sneakers in from abroad means that the tariffs have hit the company particularly hard. But because of the Kaepernick campaign and because of the politics of some of the advertising in the past, Nike, unlike Apple, was not able to arrange some sort of exception to the tariffs. When Trump announced his tariffs In April of 2025, this immediately caused huge problems for Nike and over the course of the next year cost the company something like a billion dollars. You know, we tried to cover some of that with price increases and some other things that we did with our partners on the wholesale side of the business and then also from manufacturing. But it's tough to, to cover that all at one time. And then, you know, as there were attacks being made on dei, Nike employees and executives, you know, some of wanted Nike to say something. You know, this is in January of 2025, and apparently, you know, Nike's new leadership said like, no, we're not going to say anything. We need to sort of stay apolitical. We need to be neutral. We don't want to upset Donald Trump. And you know, meanwhile, the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, began investigating Nike's DEI program back in 2024, in the summer before Trump was reelected. After Trump was reelected, this investigation expanded and, you know, they doubled down.

[Nene]

The EEOC says it requested information on

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Nike's layoff criteria, how the company used

[Nene]

workers race and ethnicity data and details on programs allegedly providing race restricted development opportunities.

[Noel King]

And also spans hiring and training programs, promotions and demotions, internships, mentoring, employee development.

[Nene]

And this is truly a test case for the Trump administration's focus now on what they're calling reverse discrimination.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

With both the tariffs and the EEOC investigation, Nike is trying to not be noticed by those in charge. The Nike is afraid, particularly of Trump and you know, what Trump's retribution could potentially do to the company. And being afraid is a terrible position to be in for a company that is trying to regain its place in the zeitgeist and be cool again.

[Noel King]

Okay, so Nike's on its back foot for a number of reasons here. It's afraid it's under investigation, it's been hit hard by tariffs. And yet, as you said earlier, companies sometimes do manage to find ways to pull themselves out of this and become cool again. I imagine Nike is desperately trying to do that. What is the strategy?

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Yeah, their strategy is to try to recapture some element of the marketing glory days by, you know, the formula they've always used, which is find a celebrity on their way up, someone cool, someone charismatic, particularly someone talented at sports, and attach themselves to that person's energy and create a campaign around how that person's hard work in their sport allows them to be capable of overcoming anything. And so if you wear Nike, you too will be capable of overcoming anything.

[Noel King]

Okay, so they need a young athlete on their way up. Who do they got?

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Because Nike is in such a defensive posture right now, they are betting a lot on this huge partnership with Kim Kardashian of all people. Get your fucking ass up and work. Kim Kardashian, not an athlete. It seems like nobody wants to work these days. But her shapewear and intimates company, Skims competes with Lululemon. And Lululemon has been beating Nike at the Athleisure game for a long time. So at this moment, for Nike, the new Michael Jordan is Kim Kardashian. Make of that what you will.

[Noel King]

Amanda Chicago Lewis is a journalist. She wrote Nike just can't do it anymore for the Economist. Coming up, another kind of company is failing. Millennial brands are not doing too well right now. RIP Everlane RIP Salad.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

So good, so good, so good.

[Noel King]

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[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Beauty Style today, explained

[Lauren Sherman]

Lauren Sherman, I am the fashion correspondent at Puck.

[Noel King]

In the first half of the show, we Were talking about Nike and how Nike has become desperately uncool. And you've been writing about this whole genre of brands that has unfortunately been tanking for coolness and other reasons. And those are millennial brands. What makes something a millennial brand?

[Lauren Sherman]

Millennials are specific because they're very hard workers and they are okay with selling out and they're okay with commercialism. So I think what a lot of big millennial brands represent is, like, aspiration. And I'd say a lot of the brands that came up in the 2000 and tens that were direct to consumer and digital first were sort of like, we're gonna, we're gonna make it better, we're gonna make it more efficiently, we're gonna make it look cooler, we're gonna do all these things. And because we know better than our, than our elders about how to run a business and how to make something really work.

[Noel King]

Everlane.

[Lauren Sherman]

Albert Rent the Runway.

[Noel King]

Warby Parker Glossier.

[Lauren Sherman]

Very few lived up to that promise.

[Noel King]

Yes, because the promise was made. And once the promise is made, you have to try to live up to it. You've been writing about a millennial brand that, wow, recently went through an incredible shift. And that is Everlane. Tell me about Everlane. What were its beginnings like and what was its pitch to consumers?

[Lauren Sherman]

So when Everlane launched, it was all about. And this was a very tr. Trendy idea of about cutting out the middleman. So it was all about transparency. The idea of, we are online all the time, we have access to a ton of information. Brands can't lie to you anymore, so they're going to give you all the information up front. Everlane was like, we're going to tell you how much it costs to make our product. We're going to tell you how much we're profiting off of that. We're going to tell you where the factories are, we're going to tell you what fabric we use.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

When it comes to sustainability, we are over sharers.

[Lauren Sherman]

We are on a low carbon diet.

[Nene]

Exceptional quality, ethical factories, radical transparency.

[Lauren Sherman]

But the other thing that they did from the beginning was they tried to make cool clothes. This was an era, 2010, 2011, 2012, where the gap was sort of waning. Amazon wasn't, as you know, at the front of our lives when it came to apparel in particular. And so there wasn't like a place that everybody was going to for their basics. And so Everlane's promise was like, we're giving you the coolest basics on the planet. These great box cut tees and Cool high rise jeans. But we're going to do it in a way that makes you feel better about purchasing it.

[Noel King]

And it worked for a time because I remember people being very loyal to Everlane. But then what happened?

[Lauren Sherman]

It worked for about 10 years, I'd say. Like, I don't know if you're familiar with the term norm core, but they were sort of at the center of the norm core trend. And then I'd say around 2018, 2019, they were doing really well. They were growing pretty fast, but they wanted to grow faster. They started raising more money and they just made some strategic changes to product that didn't really jibe with how the consumer was transforming as well. And so they sold a majority stake to a private equity firm. It just kept like diminishing from there. And they really lost their place in the culture where as Uniqlo and all these other things were rising up. And then also obviously the anti woke thing, they were associated with sustainability. And there's like this whole culture of like, actually we don't care about that. So a lot of consumers kind of pushed back on anyone who was touting being socially conscious in. In the market. So recently, the private equity firm that owned Everlane, those investors decide to sell the business to Sheehan.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

I have a huge Shein haul.

[Lauren Sherman]

Pile is so big you can't even

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

see me, but I have a massive Sheen haul.

[Noel King]

There's not many things I would say

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

I'm a professional at, but Sheen shopping

[Lauren Sherman]

is one of them, which is the Chinese fast, fast, fast, fast fashion conglomerate that, you know. The valuation is $100 billion when. When the deal was approved by the board, you know, hours after I bro the influx, the outrage was insane.

[Noel King]

From. From who? From like, people who love the company,

[Lauren Sherman]

from people online who feel like that it was an injustice.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

I genuinely cannot think of a better

[Noel King]

way to destroy your brand image.

[Nene]

Sheen is basically the antithesis of everything

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

that Everlane has built its reputation on and stands for. It's giving.

[Noel King]

Today drained me. I'm just drained. Like Nene said, I'm sick of everybody.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

And by today drained me, I mean

[Noel King]

late stage capitalism, because this is bananas.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

I will stop recommending Everlane and I will add it to my list of fashion brands to avoid because they cannot possibly maintain their DNA while belonging to a player like Shein.

[Lauren Sherman]

They were upset because it like it was supposed to uphold all these values. And you're selling to what in their minds is the antithesis of whateverlane's supposed to stand for. Shein has an incredibly opaque supply chain and doesn't share a lot of information. They're not transparent. And also they sell stuff for really, really cheap. So you just assume that the way that they're creating it is probably not the best possible way. It just sort of represented the death of those millennial brands. And then also this place we are in, the culture where nothing matters anymore. Like, all these things that, like, you people stood for don't matter. And I think it just really upset people.

[Noel King]

So there's the death of the Millennial brand, and there's something we've talked about on the show before, which is the death of the millennial lifestyle subsidy. So a lot of these brands were started back when everything was a startup. There was a lot of venture capital money flowing in, and you didn't really have to turn a profit. You just had to be, like, doing something cool. Do you think that Everlane and some of these others are like the equivalent of what happened with DoorDash and Uber? Like, you have to start making money now. You can't just tell us that you have values and you're doing something cool.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes and no. I think the difference is an Uber, a service business eventually will be able to be profitable apparel business. It. It takes a lot and it takes a lot longer. Whereas, like an uber or a WeWork, I'm. I'm working from a WeWork right now. Someone said, we worked.

[Noel King]

So this.

[Lauren Sherman]

I said, sure, there's a demand for it. There's not really a demand for more apparel. If you can't make it work, you just close. And so I think in the end, the investors in Everlane didn't really have a choice. It was either like, let's sell it to someone else. And the thing for Ashian is, like, they don't need Everlane to be profitable. They can kind of use it as an experimental little side piece or what have you.

[Noel King]

What other millennial brands are struggling?

[Lauren Sherman]

Glossier is a great example of a brand that was really important to the consumer, that has lost its footing. They have a new CEO and they're trying to get back on track. But again, it was a matter of suddenly the message and the product were not as on point as they had been, and they invested too much in the wrong things and didn't focus on profitability. And again, beauty. Beauty can scale faster than fashion, but it's a similar thing. Allbirds an example of they really were focused on Swan style shoe made with this environmentally friendly wool, and it was sort of a novelty. Now they're like, in. I don't know they're in AI or something. They totally pivoted out of the shoe business that it's very weird.

[Nene]

The company plans to buy and rent out computing power for tech companies.

[Lauren Sherman]

And they do anticipate changing their name now to Newbird AI. Huh? Yes.

[Amanda Chicago Lewis]

Newbird AI.

[Nene]

New Bird AI.

[Lauren Sherman]

The one that has done really well is Warby Parker. And that's because there is a monopoly in the eyewear business. There are not alternatives of, of nice stuff, good quality stuff that isn't crazy expensive. And they really found, when you talk about white space, which a lot of these brands did, they really did find a white space and were able to make a product that people really needed and they did it responsibly.

[Noel King]

So yeah, this is just the age old story of competition. Competition just knocks some businesses out. Nothing you can do about it. Or is there. Can you imagine any of these brands, the Allbirds, the Everlane, the ones that are really struggling. Can you imagine any of them making a comeback?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I, I think all birds know Everlane. Probably not. I'd say 2% chance ever. Albert's 0%. I think Glossier is still, there's still a need for what they do and, and how they originally presented it. I think they could potentially get that one back on track. But the reality is like, I think in this market we're just gonna see brands turn over more quickly. There's also a lot of legacy brands that are still around. So it's not like none of these things became the Levi's of their category. And that's what you kind of have to do to have longevity. If you wanna, if you wanna be around for 100 years, you have to be Louis Vuitton or Levi's or Nike or, or what have you to be able to really stick it out. And it's okay. Even sweetgreen, you look at that, the salads like I think it's done. It's just, it was interesting because it was everything for so long, but it feels like they weren't able to figure out how to make it a staple in people's lives. And that takes a long time, especially for a consumer product. It just takes longer than a new service or a technique platform or what have you.

[Noel King]

She's Lauren Sherman. She's Puck's fashion correspondent. Ariana Esputo produced today's show. And Jolie Meyers edited. Patrick Boyd is our only engineer and Gabriel Dunatov checks the facts. I'm Noel King. It's today explained.

[Lauren Sherman]

Sam.