No love (on the spectrum) for RFK Jr.

Summary

Today, Explained – Episode Summary: "No Love (on the Spectrum) for RFK Jr."

Podcast Information:

• Title: Today, Explained
• Host/Author: Vox
• Description: Today, Explained is Vox's daily news explainer podcast. Hosts Sean Rameswaram and Noel King guide listeners through the most important stories of the day.
• Network: Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
• Episode: No Love (on the Spectrum) for RFK Jr.
• Release Date: May 1, 2025

---

Introduction to RFK Jr.'s Stance on Autism

[00:01] Noel King introduces the episode by highlighting Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s controversial belief that autism is preventable. RFK Jr. posits that environmental factors are the root cause of autism, asserting that toxins in air, water, medicines, and food are responsible.

[00:14] Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:

"This is coming from an environmental toxin. And somebody made a profit by putting that environmental toxin into our air, our water, our medicines, our food."
(00:14)

Scientific Perspective on Autism

[02:07] Noel King explains that while environmental factors may play a role in autism, RFK Jr.'s descriptions of autistic individuals have sparked significant outrage. The episode delves into why RFK Jr.’s assertions clash with established scientific consensus and personal experiences of those on the autism spectrum.

[02:30] Catherine Wu, Science Writer for The Atlantic, explores the origins of RFK Jr.'s beliefs. She traces them back to the discredited study by Dr. Andrew Wakefield, which wrongly linked vaccines to autism—a study later declared an elaborate fraud.

[03:00] Andrew Wakefield:

"The conclusion was that there is a bowel disease in children with autism, which is new... the parental association with MMR exposure needed to be thoroughly investigated."
(03:00)

[03:31] Catherine Wu:

"This was a hugely problematic study... Wakefield himself had conflicts of interest that certainly made it in his best interest to seemingly find such a link."
(03:57)

RFK Jr.'s Initiative at Health and Human Services

[05:00] Noel King discusses RFK Jr.'s push for the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to lead extensive studies into the causes of autism. RFK Jr. aims to uncover definitive causes by September, leveraging advanced technologies like AI to analyze vast health records.

[05:52] Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:

"We're gonna follow this science no matter what it says, and we will have some of the answers by September."
(05:52)

[07:10] Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:

"To be done by credible scientists, by the most credible scientists from all over the world, and we're going to do it very, very quickly."
(07:10)

[07:20] Catherine Wu:

"There is a lot of chatter about there being this incredibly ambitious, expensive, accelerated effort with a goal very clearly in mind. But I'm not sure a plan has really come into formation yet."
(07:33)

Wu critiques the lack of a clear, actionable plan behind RFK Jr.'s ambitious timeline, emphasizing that finding a singular cause for autism is overly simplistic given its multifactorial nature.

Guest Perspectives: Lives on the Spectrum

The episode features James B. Jones, a technical support specialist, and Dani Bowman, CEO of DannyMation, both cast members on the Netflix series "Love on the Spectrum."

Personal Experiences and Relationships

[13:26] James B. Jones:

"Love on the Spectrum has changed my life in so many ways... I finally have found true love."
(14:02)

[15:00] Dani Bowman shares her journey of finding love outside the show, emphasizing the importance of supportive relationships.

Response to RFK Jr.'s Comments

[16:41] Dani Bowman:

"It really honestly broke my heart because words like that don't describe reality, they shape it... We people on the autism spectrum are capable. We can be capable human beings."
(16:43)

[17:36] James B. Jones:

"I was not at all pleased... he has had a habit of saying things that I feel are very ignorant and uninformed."
(17:36)

Both guests vehemently disagree with RFK Jr.'s portrayal of autistic individuals, highlighting the diversity and capabilities within the autism community.

[19:02] Dani Bowman:

"We don't need pity. We need opportunity. We don't need stereotypes. We need understanding."
(19:02)

[25:01] Dani Bowman:

"Please listen to people who actually live this experience... We're not broken. We're just wired differently."
(25:01)

[25:24] James B. Jones:

"I wish Mr. Kennedy would resign from his position. Let someone who is actually competent take that role."
(25:24)

Impact of RFK Jr.'s Statements on the Autism Community

The episode underscores the harm caused by RFK Jr.'s statements, which perpetuate stereotypes and misinformation about autism. The guests advocate for better support systems, personalized educational plans, and policies that recognize the strengths of autistic individuals rather than framing them as burdens.

[26:19] Noel King:

"Dani Bowman and James B. Jones... we definitely have to work together to prove RFK Jr wrong."
(26:48)

Conclusion

[27:20] The episode wraps up with hosts acknowledging the positive stories shared by James and Dani, reinforcing the message that autistic individuals lead fulfilling, independent lives when given the right support and opportunities.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (00:14):
  "This is coming from an environmental toxin. And somebody made a profit by putting that environmental toxin into our air, our water, our medicines, our food."

• Catherine Wu (03:57):
  "Wakefield himself had conflicts of interest that certainly made it in his best interest to seemingly find such a link."

• Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (05:52):
  "We're gonna follow this science no matter what it says, and we will have some of the answers by September."

• Dani Bowman (16:43):
  "We people on the autism spectrum are capable. We can be capable human beings."

• James B. Jones (17:36):
  "I was not at all pleased... he has had a habit of saying things that I feel are very ignorant and uninformed."

• Dani Bowman (25:01):
  "Please listen to people who actually live this experience... We're not broken. We're just wired differently."

• James B. Jones (25:24):
  "I wish Mr. Kennedy would resign from his position."

Key Takeaways

1. RFK Jr.'s Controversial Views: RFK Jr. attributes autism to environmental toxins and prioritizes this narrative within the HHS, despite significant scientific opposition.

2. Scientific Consensus: The majority of scientific research indicates that autism is a complex, multifactorial condition with strong genetic components, making RFK Jr.'s stance both oversimplified and unfounded.

3. Personal Impact: Autistic individuals like James and Dani challenge RFK Jr.'s negative portrayals by sharing their successes and emphasizing the need for support rather than stigmatization.

4. Call to Action: The episode advocates for listening to autistic voices, fostering understanding, and implementing supportive policies to enable autistic individuals to thrive.

5. Critical Response: RFK Jr.'s statements have sparked backlash from the autism community, who view his comments as harmful and misinformed.

Today, Explained effectively highlights the clash between RFK Jr.'s perspectives and the lived experiences of autistic individuals, advocating for a more nuanced and supportive approach to understanding autism.

Transcript

[Noel King]

Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Believes autism is preventable. He believes science can find the root cause, and he believes the root cause is something in our environment. Here he is at a press conference last month.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

This is coming from an environmental toxin. And somebody made a profit by putting that environmental toxin into our air, our water, our medicines, our food.

[Noel King]

Right now, the science suggests there may be environmental factors, among other things, at the root of autism. But it was RFK's description of autistic people that stoked outrage. This is the same press conference.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

These are kids who will never pay taxes, they'll never hold a job, they'll never play baseball, they'll never write a poem, they'll never go out on a date.

[Noel King]

On Today explained what RFK gets wrong according to science and according to some people who did date and who found love on the spectrum.

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[Noel King]

You're listening to today explained RFK Jr. S conviction that autism is caused by something in the environment, in the air or water or vaccines simply cuts against what most science suggests that environment may be a factor. So where did he get this idea? Catherine Wu is a science writer for the Atlantic and she recently set out to answer that question.

[Catherine Wu]

So it's not totally clear where and when this kernel got planted in RFK's head. I think certainly we have to acknowledge that, you know, by the early 2000s this idea that autism was maybe caused by vaccines and you know, this has been pretty thoroughly debunked over and over again, but this idea had sort of entered the mainstream in large part due to this since retracted study published by Andrew Wakefield that seemed to draw that link.

[Andrew Wakefield]

The conclusion was that there is a bowel disease in children with autism, which is new, which has not been investigated before, that this may well be related to the developmental regression since they had occurred at around the same time, and that the association, the parental association with MMR exposure needed to be thoroughly investigated.

[Catherine Wu]

He is a former physician who was at one point studying vaccines and autism.

[Noel King]

A decades old study that said vaccines cause autism is now being called an elaborate fraud.

[Andrew Wakefield]

The allegations against me and against my colleagues are both unfounded and unjust.

[James B. Jones]

Did you have some sort of preconceived notion of a link between the vaccine MMR and autism before you conducted this study?

[Andrew Wakefield]

Absolutely not. Dr. Gupta, please, I urge you, go and read my book. You will understand it. Many people don't. The parents understand it. They get it because they've lived it.

[Catherine Wu]

This was a hugely problematic study. It turns out the data was cherry picked and manipulated. And you know, Wakefield himself had conflicts of interest that certainly made it in his best interest to seemingly find such a link.

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You did have a lawsuit against manufacturers of the MMR vaccine, didn't you? I mean, didn't you have a financial conflict of interest?

[Andrew Wakefield]

If I could just answer, Anderson. The paper that was published in the Lancet received not one century of funding from lawyers or litigants.

[Advertisement Speaker 1]

Sir, did you not. Did you not have a financial.

[Catherine Wu]

This is around the time when at least a few concerned mothers went to RFK in his capacity as an environmental lawyer, saying, I'm really worried about some of the stuff that's in the vaccines that are being given to my kids.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

She found my home. She came to it. She put. She took out of the trunk of her car a pile of scientific studies that was 18 inches thick. She put it on my front porch, my stoop, and then she rang the bell and then she pointed to that pile and she said, I'm not leaving here till you read those.

[Catherine Wu]

I don't know if this is why they've been behaving differently or they seem to be different from other kids.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

Her son, Porter Bridges, had been a perfectly healthy kid. Got a battery of vaccines when he was 2 and lost the ability to speak. He lost the ability to. He lost his toilet training.

[Catherine Wu]

By this point, RFK started calling around different vaccine experts and started like interrogating this question in earnest. And that seems to be where this idea really picked up for him.

[Noel King]

Now that RFK Jr is heading up the Department of Health and Human Services. How is he changing the way that department approaches autism?

[Catherine Wu]

RFK has been really pushing this idea that HHS is going to lead a bunch of new studies into determining the cause of autism.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

We're gonna follow this science no matter what it says, and we will have some of the answers by September.

[Catherine Wu]

Which at the time he first started saying this was, you know, like four and a half months away. Like, very ambitious timeline and also incredibly ambitious to talk about finding a potentially singular cause of autism. Which it's certainly not to imply that nothing at HHS was looking into autism or that people weren't paying attention to this, but the idea that it was being really heavily prioritized and that this was coming directly from the White House, that it was certainly a priority for President Trump and his top allies to figure out the cause of autism and then to get rid of it.

[Noel King]

How does he plan to do that? What is HHS going to do specifically?

[Catherine Wu]

You know, it's a fantastic question, and I actually don't have a great answer for you because I'm not sure anyone has a great answer for you. And I am including the folks at hhs.

[Noel King]

Huh.

[Catherine Wu]

The messaging around this has been incredibly muddled with such an ambitious timeline. I mean, they would need to be working, I would say, nonstop, and they would still not even scratch the surface by September. But it seems that there is not a clear cut plan to sort of illustrate this a little more. You know, there's been a lot of talk from Kennedy saying, so it's going.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

To be done by credible scientists, by the most credible scientists from all over the world, and we're going to do it very, very quickly.

[Catherine Wu]

Then later at a press conference, he was talking about looking through electronic health.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

Records because of AI and because of the digitalization of health records and the mass of health records that are now available to us. We can do this much more quickly than has ever been done in the.

[Catherine Wu]

Past, kind of mining existing literature to see if there's a link that's been missed or hasn't been definitively pinpointed. And then, you know, there was additional talk out of NIH about how part of this EFF may involve looking into private health data from pharmacies, hospitals, even smartwatches. But some of that was later walked back after a bunch of privacy concerns emerged. So it seems like there is a lot of chatter about there being this incredibly ambitious, expensive, accelerated effort with a goal very clearly in mind. But I'm not sure a plan has really come into formation yet. And frankly, it may take until September for A good plan to come together if that is indeed their intention.

[Dani Bowman]

As.

[Noel King]

They attempt to find the cause of autism. We know that RFK thinks vaccines cause it. Do we have a sense that he wants government scientists to prove that is true?

[Catherine Wu]

I would suspect that is influencing their thinking quite a bit. I mean, it's already been reported that he has tasked HHS with looking into that link under the supervision of this guy named David Guyer, who himself has a history of really hawking this idea that vaccines cause autism. Again, repeatedly disproved. But there are certain people who will not let that bone go. And then, you know, with this new HHS wide effort that's come into the news this month, Kennedy has not leveraged vaccines as often. You know, his discourse is primarily been around, you know, a quote, unquote, environmental toxin. He's talked a lot about this idea that someone in industry has been putting this out into the environment. It's, you know, poisoning our kids and someone's making a profit over this. I do not know of any evidence that, you know, really strongly supports that. I don't know to what he's referring, but it seems very clear that no matter what toxin or toxins or exposures he has in mind, he does have a select few in mind. And he's already crafted the story that he is setting out to prove. And I think the huge issue with that is that's just not how you do science. You don't go out to prove a narrative that you've already decided is true. You go out and try and look for the evidence and see if a story emerges that is supported by the evidence that you find. You know, in recent decades, the definitions of autism have changed. The way that physicians have approached treating autism have changed. And, you know, awareness of autism has certainly grown. But I think really the only consensus that has emerged over decades of research is that this is a really complicated multifactorial condition. It may even be unfair to call it a single condition because of how diverse it is. And there's a really strong genetic component. So to really just hook on to this idea that it's something in the environment that is causing this quote, unquote, epidemic, it's a potentially very problematic way to view things, especially if that's going to influence policy around handling autism in this country.

[Noel King]

That was Catherine Woo of the Atlantic. Coming up, Life and love and RFK's mess 2 on the spectrum, foreign comes from betterment. Learning how to invest is one way to set up future you for success. But have you seen the markets Lately, if you ever find that investing has started to feel like a second job, you can turn to Betterment for a little work Life Balance. It's the automated investing and savings app that says they handle the work so you don't have to. Betterment builds and manages your portfolio and says it can help you with daily savings and spending and long term financial needs. They say they want to make it easy for you to invest for what matters matters. Their automated tools are meant to simplify the complex and put your money to work optimizing day after day. You can take time to rest and recharge because while your money doesn't need a work life balance, girl, you do. You can make your money hustle with Betterment. Get [e-mail] that's B E t T E R m e n t.com investing involves risk. Performance is not guaranteed Are you still.

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[Noel King]

Today Explained is back with James B. Jones, who works in technical support.

[James B. Jones]

I've always enjoyed working with computers and electronics, always been very passionate about that.

[Noel King]

And Danny Bowman, the founder and CEO of DannyMation.

[Dani Bowman]

I help students on the autism spectrum by helping them educate, elevate and empowering them by helping them turn their passion in animation into a career with our one on one sessions and our animation camps.

[Noel King]

Now, if you know those voices, and you very well might, it's because James and Dani are cast members on the hit show Love on the Spectrum about autistic people searching for love, which is not always easy.

[James B. Jones]

Oh yes, well I admit I was having difficulty with my search for love before I Heard of the series, Actually. Love on the Spectrum has changed my life in so many ways. Yes, I've met new people, I've made new friends, and yes, I find finally have found true love. I. I cannot say enough positive, wonderful things about Shelley. She's so amazing. But, yes, I said I could spend all day talking about her, but I know I can't distract us from the purpose of our. Of our. Of our meeting. But other than that, obviously, yes, my life has definitely improved quite significantly. Without a question.

[Noel King]

Tell me. Just quickly tell me about Shelley. What's so great about her?

[James B. Jones]

Shelly and I have so much in common. Yes, we. We have very similar preferences in movies, music and other hobbies and entertainment. But what is it? Well, she also is fond of outdoor activities and hiking, but at the same time, we complement each other. We are not exact duplicates of each other. She and I each inspire the other to grow and improve. We each inspire the other to be the best that we can be.

[Noel King]

That sounds wonderful, Dani. Have you met someone on the show?

[Dani Bowman]

Actually, for me, when it comes to finding the love, the person that I found hen is outside of the show.

[Noel King]

Ooh, cool.

[Dani Bowman]

We first met each other in person at the Huntington Park Police Department when his. When the police department did a fundraiser for autism acceptance and they were looking for a company or organization to help donate the funds. Henry and the Huntington Park Police Department chose Deanie Mason as the recipient of the. Of the. The funds. So. And then as. So as Henry and I first.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

Oop.

[Dani Bowman]

Oh, dear. See, I fumble with my words.

[Noel King]

That's okay. I do, too. And I talk for a living. It's totally fine in here.

[James B. Jones]

I do it also.

[Noel King]

I think that's a pretty common thing. Keep going. Tell me about Henry. What's so cool about Henry? What do you like about him?

[Dani Bowman]

What I really like about Henry is that he's really kind. He's very understanding. He takes me out to, like, a wonderful dates. Like, for example, he took me out to a wonderful south coast winery as one of our getaways. He definitely makes my dating experience so magical.

[Noel King]

I am so happy for both of you. I really am.

[Dani Bowman]

Why, thank you.

[James B. Jones]

Thank you very much.

[Noel King]

So one of the reasons that we're talking today is that Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Made some comments not long ago about autistic people having limitations. What did you think about what he said?

[Dani Bowman]

Well, look, can I start first?

[James B. Jones]

Oh, of course you may.

[Noel King]

Yeah.

[Dani Bowman]

Okay. It really honestly broke my heart because words like that don't describe reality, they shape it. They can either build people up or tear them down. And the idea that autistic people are automatically a burden, that kind of thinking destroys hope. And let's be clear. This isn't about politics. It's not about being red, blue, or whatever side you're on. It's about the language we use and how that language either fuels hope or crushes it. We people on the autism spectrum are capable. We can be capable human beings. All we need is just a loving push from the support of our friends and family to definitely keep moving forward to independent, fulfilling lives.

[Noel King]

James, what did you think when you heard Secretary Kennedy make those remarks?

[James B. Jones]

I was not at all pleased, but sadly, I was not surprised because he has had a habit of saying things that I feel are very ignorant and uneducated or, sorry, uninformed is the better word there. So I was not at all pleased, and I felt it was necessary for me to respond. I mean, I've been alive for 37 years, so I believe I have. I have quite some experience. I have many, many years of experience with this matter. So I definitely feel that I am well qualified to speak about this.

[Noel King]

What do you mean by experience? Do you mean you've heard lots of people criticize autistic people in a way that you think is unfair?

[James B. Jones]

Yes, exactly. And I've been in situations where in the past, my social skills were not as skilled, were not. My social skills were not as. Develop. They are now. So I, I, through. Through. Through experience, I developed my social skills to the point where they are now.

[Noel King]

Let me ask you both a question, and Danny, I'll start with you. The thing about those comments that got a lot of attention was when Secretary Kennedy kind of listed the limitations, as he sees them, of people with autism. Do you believe that you have limitations?

[Dani Bowman]

Of course I do. I do have some certain limitations, and especially because I have a hard. And I do have a challenge that I have called verbal apraxia, which means I have a hard time articulating with my words, or sometimes my words come out as word salad, like earlier. However, as we people on the autism spectrum are working together to challenge these roadblocks, we can make it better.

[Noel King]

James, what about you?

[James B. Jones]

Oh, yes, of course. Everyone has limits. That is correct. And I will confess that some of my limits, not all of them, but some of my limits may perhaps be related to my autism. But I have been able to, I believe to say overcome those limits is not proper terminology, is not a proper way to word it, but I have been able to minimize those limitations to live with them or to. No, I'm sorry. To work with them, to work around them. Yes, yes. And I certainly must say that the idea that people with autism are incapable of driving, driving vehicles, paying bills or living in apparently is completely false. I have had my driver's license for 20 years, since I was 17. I paid practically all of my own expenses and I work a 40 hour per week job with benefits I've held steadily since 2017. And other than the fact that I still live with my parents, I believe myself to be quite independent, self sufficient. And the fact that I still live with my parents is due to factors that are beyond my control control because houses are extremely expensive right now. And that of course is obviously not something I can control. But that obviously is probably not something we'll be discussing right here. Yes.

[Dani Bowman]

Well, James, one thing I wanted to add and Noel, can I add something to that?

[Noel King]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Dani Bowman]

I. I understand why people might think of that if we're a burden, but if you have met me as a kid, you wouldn't say that. Well, I didn't speak until I was almost said and when I moved in with my aunt and uncle at 11, I barely had any functional language and struggled to connect with anyone. But they didn't see it as a burden.

[James B. Jones]

I believe my mother has said it took me slightly longer to be capable of speech than it does most children, most images. But my mother mentioned though that I was able to speak in complete sentences immediately rather than one or two words at a time as is the case for most children.

[Dani Bowman]

Oh yes, well. And I have to tell you that you're pretty good at paying taxes and of course we both pay taxes.

[James B. Jones]

Yes. And I love writing poetry also. Yes.

[Noel King]

Can I ask you guys a sensitive question?

[James B. Jones]

I suppose you may ask whether or not we answer our matter entirely.

[Noel King]

I think that sounds fair. Okay. So after Secretary Kennedy made those comments, a lot of people were clearly upset, including a lot of people like the two of you who. Who have autism. I also read some essays by parents of kids who are severely autistic who said, you know, this actually does speak to my experience. My kid is really having trouble and probably won't ever get a job or write a poem or date. And they said, I feel like Secretary Kennedy really saw me and was speaking to me whether I like his position on vaccines, whether or not I think he address the issue sensitively enough or not. He is talking about what it's like to be me as a parent of a kid like this. Do you think that he has a point when it comes to autistic people whose needs are much greater than the two of yours.

[Dani Bowman]

Well, I do have a cousin who is severely autistic. And even though he seemed to be getting better at knowing how to use the the restroom by himself, I kind of do feel bad for my cousin. But you're right that there's other nonverbal people on the spectrum that can get a degree. I met this one lady who is non verbal and is capable of getting a PhD and she uses a communication device in that she proves potential. She could definitely do it. Even non verbals can do it. Then again, no matter, non verbal or not, people on the spectrum still need the loving push.

[Noel King]

Hmm. We talked to a reporter earlier in this show who said one of the distinctive things about Secretary Kennedy is that he came out and he said, we are going to find what causes autism quickly and we're going to do something about it.

[James B. Jones]

I do not like that at all.

[Catherine Wu]

Yay.

[Noel King]

Tell me why. Tell me why.

[James B. Jones]

For anyone who has studied history, those are very ominous words indeed. Autism is a psychological, a neurological condition. The reason that more people are diagnosed with autism is because doctors and psychologists have become more adept at identifying, at diagnosing autism. Plus, of course, people who have autism are not as afraid to hide their condition, to hide their symptoms, as they may have been in ages past. And of course, society is much more accepting of autism in recent years as well.

[Noel King]

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Has a lot of power. He is the Secretary of Health and Human Services, which means in his role, he can do things for people with autism. He can order that research be conducted. He can draw attention to the cause. What do you want RFK Jr to know about you and what do you want him to do, if anything, about people who live with autism?

[Dani Bowman]

So I would say, please listen. Listen to people who actually live this experience. We don't need pity. We need opportunity. We don't need stereotypes. We need understanding. We're not broken. We're just wired differently. And given the chance, we can do incredible things. All we need is just a loving push.

[James B. Jones]

Okay, I'll be diplomatic and say, I wish Mr. Kennedy would resign from his position. Let someone who is actually competent take that role. That's a lot more diplomatic than what I was originally planning to say. So the Secretary of Health and Human Services needs to be someone who actually understands these various issues, understands matters of this nature. Yes. We need to provide support, support mechanisms for people who have autism or similar neurological conditions. People who have autism or similar conditions need special programs that are tailored for them. Every student needs to have their own customized, their own personalized plan curriculum.

[Dani Bowman]

I definitely agree with what James says. I would have RFK Jr resign.

[Noel King]

Thank you both for taking the time to do this. You both articulated your point of view really well, and I'm very happy for both of you that you've met nice people out in the world. It's very hard out there. So good for you.

[James B. Jones]

Thank you very much.

[Dani Bowman]

James and I were both grateful to be part of this podcast, and we definitely have to work together to prove RFK Jr wrong.

[Noel King]

Dani Bowman and James B. Jones Love on the Spectrum is on Netflix. Gabrielle Burbet and Avishai Artsy Made Today Show Amina El Saadi Edited Laura Bullard Fact Checked Patrick Boyd and Andrea Christensdotter are our engineers. I'm Noel King. It's Today Explained.

[Catherine Wu]

It.